Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Other Raw-Animal-Food Diets (eg:- Primal Diet/Raw Version of Weston-Price Diet etc.) => Primal Diet => Topic started by: Gatsuri on December 12, 2018, 03:14:03 am
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Hi,
I can follow AV a bit on what he says on water, when I drink mineral water it does not fully satisfy thirst and thirst quickly returns.. when I eat some raw yolks with honey for example it hydrates much better.
My question is if the vegetable juices (cucumber, celery, zucchini, etc.) AV recommends satisfy your thirst better than mineral water ? I have not been able to try the vegetable juices yet.
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yes cucumber and tomatoe are the best and blood is even better.
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Definitely going to try it when I get some kind of mixer/ juicer, any nightshade issues with the tomato ? I see AV recommends it a lot in his book
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Vegetable juices are one of the recommendations of Aajonus that I don't follow, it's simply too much hassle and cost to juice veggies all the time for hydration in my opinion. What I do is drink whole eggs (white and yolk- up to a dozen a day when I have enough), and sometimes raw whey when available but more usually lemon with water, or fruits like pineapple/avocado/banana mashed in a bowl with some water and drink that. I've found I use very little water on a RPD, especially when I have sufficient raw eggs.
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Raw veggie juice is recommended against by RVAFers, generally. Many RVAFers have complained of nutritional deficiencies after consuming raw veggie juice too often. It is said that more than 1 pint of raw veggie juice a day is a real no-no. The idea is that juicing raw vegetables not only breaks up the cell-walls of the plant , releasing lots more nutrients, but it also leads to the release of a lot more antinutrients as well, resulting in awful health-problems if one overdoes the veggie-juice consumption in the long-term. I recently purchased a single auger juicer after confirming that it was a lot easier to clean than other juicers(and cheap enough!), but I do not use it much. When I do, I use it mainly for juicing fruit and for the occasional herb like ginger or parsnip or radish. Technically not really palaeo, as juicing fruit involves too much of a sugar-rush and involved processing so is not genuinely 100% raw/unprocessed, but it means I can carry around the juice in a mineral water bottle when with other non-RVAFers. My juicer is not centrifugal, so the juice apparently does not deteriorate as fast as such lesser juicers.
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I have serious confusion over those who claim drinking water doesn't hydrate. 3Vsrge, or however you write it, goes so far as to say animals don't drink water. And this is from a guy who shows himself in nature quite often. I have no idea as to why he would say such a preposterous thing. I could show him videos all day long where animals in the wild are drinking from water holes, streams, lakes etc..
My guess is that he took that belief from AV. And so the story continues... My guess is those deriving hydration ( and I point this out to suggest more introspection ) or suspected hydration from egg yolks and honey are mainly getting a little instant energy from the honey and feelin alright again, as Henricks would say. Not that juices don't hydrate, I have lived off of them during 30 plus days fasts, but again, as Tyler mentions, you're getting a sugar rush. And sugar rushes just like taking an Advil can make you feel really good.
When you juice you have No way of knowing how much of that particular veg or fruit you're body really needs, as there is No time for a stop to occur and signal you that you've had enough. Thus, you are constantly trying to mentally figure it out,, 'is it one carrot and one zucchini and three pieces of apple,, or is two carrots and one apple.....
The idea of getting someone to think that water doesn't hydrate, and then to follow some recipe, in my opinion, is another way of getting someone to jump on your hype train.
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@tyler
The only time nutritional deficiencies would happen is if they are NOT following the recipe for living without disease.
@van
sv3rige never said that about water... he says there are instances where animals do not drink water and survive in certain areas without sources of water for long periods of time. Secondly you can see him drinking spring water in nature in many videos.
Honey does indeed hydrate in conjunction with liquid because of the fructose which the brain runs off of.
As ajanous stated any sugar in bland veg or fruit specifically cucumber and celery is glucose NEGATIVE, you do not get sugar a high of any kind period after consuming cucumber or celery juice, that just tells me you never had it to be saying that.
Ajanous clearly says to never go above 10 percent if juicing fruit or tubers because those DO have high amounts of sugar.
The only things you should be juicing is mainly celery, cucumber, tomato and occasionally zucchini if you feel like it.
you are over complicating this immensely.
The objective reality is that once you understand the basic principles ajanous uses in the recipe for living without disease and know what to juice to not get hit by anti nutrients it should not even have to be said that it is incredibly helpful in the absence of blood, it should be known on this forum already.
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@gatsuri
Tomato only becomes a problem when it is cooked whereby it causes issues especially rosacea in the face from the body unable to get rid of its properties. Raw is more than fine.
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@tyler
The only time nutritional deficiencies would happen is if they are NOT following the recipe for living without disease.
@van
sv3rige never said that about water... he says there are instances where animals do not drink water and survive in certain areas without sources of water for long periods of time. Secondly you can see him drinking spring water in nature in many videos.
Honey does indeed hydrate in conjunction with liquid because of the fructose which the brain runs off of.
As ajanous stated any sugar in bland veg or fruit specifically cucumber and celery is glucose NEGATIVE, you do not get sugar a high of any kind period after consuming cucumber or celery juice, that just tells me you never had it to be saying that.
Ajanous clearly says to never go above 10 percent if juicing fruit or tubers because those DO have high amounts of sugar.
The only things you should be juicing is mainly celery, cucumber, tomato and occasionally zucchini if you feel like it.
you are over complicating this immensely.
The objective reality is that once you understand the basic principles ajanous uses in the recipe for living without disease and know what to juice to not get hit by anti nutrients it should not even have to be said that it is incredibly helpful in the absence of blood, it should be known on this forum already.
First, sv3irge, did say that. It would take me hours to find the video. One of the reasons I stopped watching him.
I agree, celery cucumber, zuchinni have low sugar content. But, most don't stop there, as evidenced by sv3, as he added quite a good amount of oranges. Talk about anti nutrients, do your homework on the anti nutrients within celery.
The brain does not run on Fructose.
Again, I feel like a hall monitor here. I simply don't want newbies to come away 'believing' that they have to juice to avoid dehydration, that they can't hydrate with water. Do you actually think for a second that primal man had access to juicers or even the plants to juice?
I'm Not overcomplicating it, anyone who prescribes one to go to the extent of juicing is the culprit. Another example of how AV makes these things up to get people to believe he has some special knowledge, may be passed down by the coyotes/wolves that brought him the dead animal in the middle of the night.
AV does have some valid information. One just has to sift through it, and not take everything as the final word.
Sorry, I'll keep up the monitoring as long as i'm around. Seen too many led astray.
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@van
the brain using fructose/glucose as a source of energy outside of fat and cholesterol.
https://news.yale.edu/2017/02/23/fructose-generated-human-brain
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5313070/
https://www.livescience.com/57997-fructose-produced-in-brain.html
If you want to jump to conclusion and think talking about the (apparently little known on this forum) fundamentals of juicing in the primal diet is "prescribing" juicing to someone when they THEMSELVES are interested in it then go ahead and think that way.
The primal diet is not always just about what is found in the context nature, its about doing the best we can with what we have access to and exploring dietary additions or solutions within the context of a raw animal products diet that can be advantageous to those that choose to consume it.
You yourself have said you don't understand (are confused) the concept behind juicing in the first place.
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You're twisting my words. I said I'm confused why someone would say we can't hydrate by drinking water. I went on to say it is preposterous! That is all I am focusing on here. To prevent readers from believing they need to start drinking blood or begin juicing to stay hydrated.
Interesting find on the brain and it's ability to convert Some glucose to Fructose. The Primary fuel for most sugar-fueled bodies is still glucose.
I am not opposed to using other than original means for preparing food. I only pointed out that man has hydrated himself for countless ages without juicing. A man dying of thirst will rehydrate by drinking water.
I think my point should be clear now.
Juice if you want to. And, or, have a glass of water.
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@ van
No one is really saying water can't hydrate just that it hydrates far less, hence the blood and juicing.
Reminds me of a conversation I had with my holistic nutrition fundamentals teacher who asserted he feels fine with his meat cooked.
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@tyler
The only time nutritional deficiencies would happen is if they are NOT following the recipe for living without disease.
*sigh*, talking to a religious zealot is a waste of time but I'll try again , but no more. I have read both of AV's books. They are full of nonsense. For example, he borrows from the Bible as regards his being fed raw meat by wild coyotes after 40 days of fasting in the wilderness(remember Jesus' 40 days and 40 nights of fasting in the Bible?). Then there are all the absurd, rigid recipes he prescribes for various health-problems, which are also laughable. I mean, even people with the same exact health-problems will often need entirely different health-regimes or entirely different raw foods in order to regain their health.This is because everybody is different as regards their experiences, immune-systems, DNA etc. etc. So an instinctive-based approach based on learning from and adapting to one's own personal past health-problems etc. works best in the long run.
Like most RVAFers, I started switching from 1 RVAF diet guru to another, when I first got started. But I was wise enough to recognise that it is physically impossible for any one human to be 100%(or even close to 100%) right in everything - whether that is a guru or oneself. If any human being were 100% correct, they would have to be a god, by definition. So, the best approach is to borrow ideas from all the various RVAF diet gurus(and even some non-food-related ideas from other gurus), and then check what other average RVAFers have experienced as well, to see if it chimes with your own.
What I said re many Primal Dieters experiencing long-term health-problems after drinking raw veggie-juice on a regular basis is correct. Now, whether it is a question of increased antinutrients or not, is beside the point.At any rate, I was lucky in that I found that I got diarrhea soon after trying raw veggie juice in my 3rd year of going RVAF. That put me off.Incidentally, the more unpleasant a raw vegetable tastes when solid, the more antinutrients there are in the veg.The plant does not want itself to be eaten, so it inserts antinutrients in itself except for any fruits so as to deter animals from eating it. So much so, that herbivores like deer like to move on to other plants as the plants they eat release more noxious substances to deter them from eating the whole plant.
As regards the water fallacy, it is true that one needs to drink less water on a RVAF diet as raw foods, whether animal or plant, have much higher water-content than when cooked. But it is absurd to suggest that one can get by on a water-free RVAF diet. Wild animals in Nature regularly drink water. Bear in mind, that whenever humans do not copy the natural habits of wild animals, they soon end up suffering(such as incurring increased myopia due to staying too much indoors during childhood, eating cooked foods etc. etc.).
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Sometimes I get the feeling that PG expects AV to some day "arise again"!!
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@tyler
Yeah mostly agree even AV recommended drinking water every few weeks or when you feel like it. Cucumber and tomato are technically bland fruits and so do not have many/any perceivable anti nutrients.
Other RVAF gurus? Haven't seen anybody else they're all cooked plebs.
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I'm pretty anti-vegetable myself ( I eat 0 vegetables) but I'm open to experimentation to see how my body reacts to it.. AV's views are interesting for sure, I mean he would not have this view on water without having experimenting heavily himself also with the veg juices + his experience with his patients. Without having tried it yet I do agree with him already that raw fats satisfy my thirst much better than drinking mineral water (throat stays thirsty I can keep drinking that stuff as much as I want).
In one of his videos AV mentions some tribe who during their travels avoided drinking water but did resort to sucking the juice from certain veggies, if anyone has some reading material on this would be nice.
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indigenous raw and cooked plant juice variations
nectars, soaking, boiling, sucking/chewing
https://parksaustralia.gov.au/botanic-gardens/pub/aboriginal-plantuse.pdf
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I'm pretty anti-vegetable myself ( I eat 0 vegetables) but I'm open to experimentation to see how my body reacts to it.. AV's views are interesting for sure, I mean he would not have this view on water without having experimenting heavily himself also with the veg juices + his experience with his patients. Without having tried it yet I do agree with him already that raw fats satisfy my thirst much better than drinking mineral water (throat stays thirsty I can keep drinking that stuff as much as I want).
In one of his videos AV mentions some tribe who during their travels avoided drinking water but did resort to sucking the juice from certain veggies, if anyone has some reading material on this would be nice.
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your body might be confusing thirst for it's attempts at reducing an acid load from eating too much protein. I say Might
AV says this, AV says that. And in fact part of it might be true. For instance, maybe the water they have to drink from is rank with animal feces, or maybe they haven't eaten for so long that the calories from certain plant species are necessary. I'd suck the juice from chewing on a carrot before I'd drink water from a nearly dried up water hole.
But please find out for yourself. And take note of your protein levels when water doesn't satisfy your thirst.
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@van
Have you ever drunk blood?
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@tyler
Yeah mostly agree even AV recommended drinking water every few weeks or when you feel like it. Cucumber and tomato are technically bland fruits and so do not have many/any perceivable anti nutrients.
Other RVAF gurus? Haven't seen anybody else they're all cooked plebs.
Guy Claude Burger is a RVAF diet guru. Sverige is also one, by now. Carol Alt is another.
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Already heard of all those people they're not really that interesting other than sv3rige which talks almost exclusively from AVs books.
As far as youtubers sv3rige's logic and experience is years ahead of pretty much all of them.
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I note that sv3rige is claiming Aajonus got murdered, which is nonsense. I am even not sure at all that AV died from a fall. After all, this was in Thailand, a far away and wholly corrupt country - it would have been easy to conceal the fact that AV had a heart-attack. Given that he wasn't all that old when he died, dying, except accidentally, would have looked very bad to his followers. I mean, AV's diet was so non-palaeo, and artificial, after all.GCB had his flaws, given his past warnings against raw meat consumption, and emphasis on eating too many sweet fruits, among other things, but his instincto ideas were generally more useful than AV's.
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sv3rige said he wouldn't be surprised if he got murdered***
His girlfriend was reported to be with him during and after the time of injury, maybe interesting to see if she is still around to say something although I don't think she would easily because of some petty skeptics on an internet forum.
A video of his death from the website
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP-1ehLG9PA&lc=z23yfxr4hl34ifbrg04t1aokgv0wwnoc5jmfg2r4vgijbk0h00410
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PaganGoy, how much blood would one drink? I typically drink no more than 1-2 cups of water a day depending on activity, sometimes none. I will not juice vegetables. I do have reliable access to young beef blood. Would you suggest to replace the 1-2 cups of water with equal amount of blood, or is that too much?
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@grey cup
Get the blood and see how much your body wants. I can't get enough blood for the life of me.
Cucumbers and tomatoes are bland fruit not vegetables.
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PaganGoy, do you drink blood instead of eating a meal, or do you have blood as a beverage with a meal?
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You can potentially skip a meal just drinking blood but the important thing is to listen to instinct.
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First impressions are really positive with using cucumber juice and tomatoes while not drinking any mineral water, just a small amount of the cucumber juice does a lot to reduce my thirst, I only need a little each time.
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Cucumber should be at least an hour before or after eating to prevent indigestion, tomato can be had anytime in smaller amounts.
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Cucumber should be at least an hour before or after eating to prevent indigestion, tomato can be had anytime in smaller amounts.
Yep I pretty much read everything AV said about the juices in his books, his mineral water perspective is very interesting. A bit of a coincidence that vegetable police just made a video about how he feels that mineral water is not hydrating him that well :p
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Update: I find raw honey mixed in with mineral water works really well, also added bonus for oral health and breath.
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can't imagine why rinsing your teeth with sugar water would improve oral health.
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@gatsuri
Ajanous had an alternative to veg juice when its not available in a pinch,
naturally sparkling water like gerolsteiner with a little honey, fat like cream, a few tbsp of lemon or lime and I think maybe a tiny amount of ACV.
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I'm pretty anti-vegetable myself ( I eat 0 vegetables) but I'm open to experimentation to see how my body reacts to it.. AV's views are interesting for sure, I mean he would not have this view on water without having experimenting heavily himself also with the veg juices + his experience with his patients. Without having tried it yet I do agree with him already that raw fats satisfy my thirst much better than drinking mineral water (throat stays thirsty I can keep drinking that stuff as much as I want).
In one of his videos AV mentions some tribe who during their travels avoided drinking water but did resort to sucking the juice from certain veggies, if anyone has some reading material on this would be nice.
[/quo
your body might be confusing thirst for it's attempts at reducing an acid load from eating too much protein. I say Might
AV says this, AV says that. And in fact part of it might be true. For instance, maybe the water they have to drink from is rank with animal feces, or maybe they haven't eaten for so long that the calories from certain plant species are necessary. I'd suck the juice from chewing on a carrot before I'd drink water from a nearly dried up water hole.
But please find out for yourself. And take note of your protein levels when water doesn't satisfy your thirst.
how much protein is too much?
are you referring to raw or cooked/heated protein?
im sure one can have too much cooked protein, but what about raw protein?
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I note that sv3rige is claiming Aajonus got murdered, which is nonsense. I am even not sure at all that AV died from a fall. After all, this was in Thailand, a far away and wholly corrupt country - it would have been easy to conceal the fact that AV had a heart-attack. Given that he wasn't all that old when he died, dying, except accidentally, would have looked very bad to his followers. I mean, AV's diet was so non-palaeo, and artificial, after all.GCB had his flaws, given his past warnings against raw meat consumption, and emphasis on eating too many sweet fruits, among other things, but his instincto ideas were generally more useful than AV's.
why would Aajonus die of heart attack or any other organ failure, what did he eat that could cause any organ failure? Everything he ate was to strengthen all the organs, all the body.
IMO he could of been poisoned, killed/murdered by stranger(s) and /or pharmaceutical mafia hitman or even by the so called ''close'' ''friends''... when money is involved, anything can happen, people kill their (good) parents for 100ml of vodka or they kill God's human body for 30 pieces of silver... ;-)
The truth is we will NEVER know what really happened to him that caused his death.
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it is said here https://www.davidgumpert.com/the-dark-side-of-the-aajonus-vonderplanitz-legacy-how-the-end-came that he didnt die from the fall, as many people always claim. It´s pretty easy to find this actually:
At the end of the week last week, Aajonus was with his girlfriend, in Thailand on a balcony on his house. He was cleaning a wound to his hand, and went to the railing to throw the rest of the washing fluid to the ground. She turned away to do something, and heard a crashing noise. The railing was broken, at least in that spot, and she heard moaning. She rushed to the ground below, and found him there.
He broke his back quite severely, next to the first rib, and could not move his legs. He took charge of the care of his body, even in the hospital, where he had them wrap his torso to stabilize the bones. He did have one x-ray, and then would not let them do more. The doctors wanted to operate, and he refused. He had them wrap him and feed him his food, and continued so for two days. He was apparently in good spirits, but did experience what must have been severe pain, for he did let them give him at least two pain shots. This might have been necessary for him to stay awake and in control, as the body can shut down from pain. There was blood in his stomach at some point, for he did regurgitate some food with blood in it.
On the third day of his hospital stay, he sent his girlfriend to a court proceeding in Bangkok, about 3.5 hrs away, about the land there in Thailand, over her protests. He insisted she go. While she was gone, he went into a coma, and they put an IV in him. When she returned he was very bad. At this point she emailed our Thai member, who called a few of us. The doctors say he had a kidney infection and blood infection. They continued to feed him butter and honey, as instructed, and followed his wishes as possible. They gave him oxygen as his breathing decreased, and he steadily lost blood pressure. They told us his kidneys had stopped functioning, were not producing urine. They wanted to do something, but no one had any authority to override his stated wishes. When his heart failed, they pumped his heart and tried to resuscitate him for a half hour. Our Thai member was on the phone with Aajonus’ girlfriend and could hear the flatline beep of the heart monitor. …They stopped resuscitation efforts at 2 am August 28th Thai time, Noon on August 27th Los Angeles time.
The way I read it, Vonderplanitz may have been afraid to have rural doctors operate on him, and likely died from the effects of internal bleeding.
We will never know what really caused his death. However, it is highly likely that because he didn´t fix that rotten railing, all the events thereafter lead to his death. Then there is the possibility that somebody might have done him harm while laying in the hospital vunerable and possibly alone, which caused the internal bleeding and organ failure, given the fact that there were previous attempts on his life before (at least according to his newsletters), or he was just unlucky and died of the after effects of that fall. Or they manipulated that railing, however, that seems unlikely give how extremely remote and hard to access that place was. But nothing is impossible. The final verdict would be that we will never find out and I think it´s pointless to continue talking about it. Fact is he saved and helped many people, he had very contradictive and questionable methods that made no sense, but he for sure pissed off a lot of people that pull certain strings. And I wouldn´t give much of what Sv3rige has to say, this guy is mentally unstable, but at the same time he is spreading the word about RAF, which he has to get credit for.
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Raw veggie juice is recommended against by RVAFers, generally. Many RVAFers have complained of nutritional deficiencies after consuming raw veggie juice too often. It is said that more than 1 pint of raw veggie juice a day is a real no-no. The idea is that juicing raw vegetables not only breaks up the cell-walls of the plant , releasing lots more nutrients, but it also leads to the release of a lot more antinutrients as well, resulting in awful health-problems if one overdoes the veggie-juice consumption in the long-term. I recently purchased a single auger juicer after confirming that it was a lot easier to clean than other juicers(and cheap enough!), but I do not use it much. When I do, I use it mainly for juicing fruit and for the occasional herb like ginger or parsnip or radish. Technically not really palaeo, as juicing fruit involves too much of a sugar-rush and involved processing so is not genuinely 100% raw/unprocessed, but it means I can carry around the juice in a mineral water bottle when with other non-RVAFers. My juicer is not centrifugal, so the juice apparently does not deteriorate as fast as such lesser juicers.
probably the vegg juice needs some raw salt(sodium) to balance the high potassium found in vegg juice... too much potassium will dehydrate and cause other issues, the solution is raw salt IMHO
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So many ridiculous posts in this thread. If someone had wanted Aadjenous dead for his views on his diet they would have given him food poisoning, not pushed him off a railing. Only thing that makes sense is that he fell and if there was fowl play that it most likely was caused by one of his followers. It is reported that he was an awful man and filed frivolous lawsuits on any competition who preached his work as well as those work he stole from.
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I have serious confusion over those who claim drinking water doesn't hydrate. 3Vsrge, or however you write it, goes so far as to say animals don't drink water. And this is from a guy who shows himself in nature quite often. I have no idea as to why he would say such a preposterous thing. I could show him videos all day long where animals in the wild are drinking from water holes, streams, lakes etc..
My guess is that he took that belief from AV. And so the story continues... My guess is those deriving hydration ( and I point this out to suggest more introspection ) or suspected hydration from egg yolks and honey are mainly getting a little instant energy from the honey and feelin alright again, as Henricks would say. Not that juices don't hydrate, I have lived off of them during 30 plus days fasts, but again, as Tyler mentions, you're getting a sugar rush. And sugar rushes just like taking an Advil can make you feel really good.
When you juice you have No way of knowing how much of that particular veg or fruit you're body really needs, as there is No time for a stop to occur and signal you that you've had enough. Thus, you are constantly trying to mentally figure it out,, 'is it one carrot and one zucchini and three pieces of apple,, or is two carrots and one apple.....
The idea of getting someone to think that water doesn't hydrate, and then to follow some recipe, in my opinion, is another way of getting someone to jump on your hype train.
Do the animals drink the water for hydration or bacteria ? We in theory should be drinking water like dogs as well full of soil and bacteria
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Maybe they vaccinated Aajonus's balcony :P