Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Josh on July 18, 2009, 05:49:28 pm
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Hey guys. Don't mean to sound overly dramatic, but I'm experiencing some bad symptoms and would appreciate it if anyone has any thoughts.
To give you some background, I have been eating raw meat, fat, jerky and 1 piece/cup of fruit a day for 1 1/2 weeks now.
I have lost weight, and think I am in ketosis now. I am very tired and sometimes have brain fog, but get surges of a kind of energy a while after eating fat.
The problem is I am having very panicky feelings...an overall feeling of dread and physical anxiety and tension. I am also having 'paranoid' thoughts about people and situations. I have also had trouble sleeping, lying in bed with my mind racing.
I'm fairly tough minded, and could get through the tired and fog if there's a goal in sight, but there's no way I can do this for a few months.
Has anyone got any advice...if you've experienced it how long does it go on for? Any tips to make it better?
I don't really want to give up on raw paleo cause I believe in it, but feel like I can't go on like this and it may be dangerous.
Appreciate your time, cheers Josh
The full history is: About 6 months ago I was doing a moderate carb diet with 'healthy' fats meat and fish and veggies cooked and raw which felt great. Then I was doing cooked paleo,then raw zero carb which didn't work out. Most recently I was trying to get back into raw paleo but breaking it with loads of fruit or a carby take away.
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To give you some background, I have been eating raw meat, fat, jerky and 1 piece/cup of fruit a day for 1 1/2 weeks now.
I have lost weight, and think I am in ketosis now. I am very tired and sometimes have brain fog, but get surges of a kind of energy a while after eating fat.
The problem is I am having very panicky feelings...an overall feeling of dread and physical anxiety and tension. I am also having 'paranoid' thoughts about people and situations. I have also had trouble sleeping, lying in bed with my mind racing.
I'm fairly tough minded, and could get through the tired and fog if there's a goal in sight, but there's no way I can do this for a few months.
Has anyone got any advice...if you've experienced it how long does it go on for? Any tips to make it better?
I don't really want to give up on raw paleo cause I believe in it, but feel like I can't go on like this and it may be dangerous.
I know dairy is not paleo, but maybe for the first month you can do raw grass grazed dairy. I found the kefir helps core apnea and the butter helps restless leg syndrome. Also dairy made me sleep longer. It might help you get you the rest you need in this transition period. Then when you're past this time, wean yourself off the dairy.
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Thanks for the suggestion...unfortunately I don't react well to dairy. I think it could make matters worse :)
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Just as well. Decent (raw) dairy is incredibly hard to get anyway. I hope you're problem is solved soon, and you're feeling better.
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The full history is: About 6 months ago I was doing a moderate carb diet with 'healthy' fats meat and fish and veggies cooked and raw which felt great. Then I was doing cooked paleo,then raw zero carb which didn't work out. Most recently I was trying to get back into raw paleo but breaking it with loads of fruit or a carby take away.
Hmm, my history is very similar to this, and have experienced very similar symptoms. I find that the minute i eat some sugar I am fine! Surely this is all just sugary gut to fatty gut adaption? After all it is a lifetime of eating one way vs a few weeks/months/years of another that is totally different. I have a feeling this is the general vibe most will give here. Perhaps you can feel a little more relaxed knowing someone else is in the same boat.
I'll keep you posted, we'll figure it out mate.
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When I'm trying to lower my carb intake and it gets too darn low.... I eat carb fruit until I feel better... and usually I do feel better when I get my fill of carbs. Try raw honey if you need more carbs.
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I used to have panic attacks as a result of a low-fat fruitarian diet. The best things that helped me were
1. getting off the fruit for a while
2. eating natural mineral supplements like bone meal, healing clays like Pascalite, and dolomite--ask me how to do this to maximize the benefits
3. eating lots of fat
4. taking softgel vitamin D caps
In addition to trying 2 and 4, I would also change up the types of meat, fruit, and fat that you are eating, as well as jerky, and see if any of those changes can change this pattern of panic.
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I did a gradual transition and didn't experience these negative effects, so maybe gradual would work better for you too?
Like others, I'm guessing that maybe your GI system has not healed and adapted to the point where it can digest fats well. I used to have trouble with them myself. Supplementation might help during this transitional stage, though it would probably take some experimentation to figure out what supplements help you through this. Magnesium is known to help with anxiety, panic and sleep and it's one of the supplements that helped me most in the past to heal the ravages of modern carb eating.
Speaking of supplementation, I've found that I need less potassium and zinc supplements since I've moved from a conventional varied Paleo diet to mostly raw animal fats and meats. I never would have guessed that raw meat and fat would boost my potassium levels more than bananas.
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Like others, I'm guessing that maybe your GI system has not healed and adapted to the point where it can digest fats well. I used to have trouble with them myself. Supplementation might help during this transitional stage, though it would probably take some experimentation to figure out what supplements help you through this. Magnesium is known to help with anxiety, panic and sleep and it's one of the supplements that helped me most in the past to heal the ravages of modern carb eating.
What does everyone think of (raw) eggs to heal the GI?
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Thanks for the replies. I'll stick it out for a few more days anyway. I've got some quality supplements at home so may experiment with them.
Cheers, Josh.
@phatdave yeh, let's keep each other updated..v interested to hear how it works out for you.
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What does everyone think of (raw) eggs to heal the GI?
I think raw eggs nourish and cleanse the liver. I've done egg yolk liver flushes and they work.
Dr. Henry Bieler says most of the time the problem is the production of toxic bile by the liver which was caused by a depletion of sodium. His opinion is you get your sodium from either raw red meat or his vegetable soup (zuchini, parsley, string beans). Or as aajonus says, raw green juice. Once the liver's nutrition is replenished, it will produce good bile instead of toxic bile.
A short fast on diluted fruit juice may also help. It's a case to case basis. I went on a 14 day orange juice fast. I'm quite satisfied with my digestion nowadays.
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I know that animal fats have helped heal my GI more than anything (fiber was nearly useless). Raw eggs contain fats in the yolk, so I do believe they should help and they are one of the foods I was eating when my GI healed most.
However, Lex does not think eggs are very good since they were a rare, small treat in the wild, so diner beware. I would be interested in any elaboration on eggs that Lex or Tyler or someone might offer.
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I think eggs are good in the beginning, and then when healed, you can basically cut them out.
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Raw eggs would have been mostly fertilised in palaeo times(unlike modern eggs), thus resulting in lower levels of the antinutrient avidin. Plus, eggs in the wild would have been laid in relatively unaccessible areas such as trees, cliffs etc., so would have been rarely eaten.
Re panic attacks:- i got those while doing zero carbs. Perhaps getting out of ketosis and adding more carbs would do the trick?
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How much lower in avidin are fertile eggs over non?
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Thanks all. I took a multimineral yesterday (2xaor orthomineral), and had a magnesium citrate at bedtime. (I had these left from my other diet. It's definitely taken the edge off it. I'm going to keep taking these supps. Hopefully I will be able to cut them out as I get more nutrients from food, otherwise the beef and fruit diet will need a rethink.
I may try your suggestion of a few more carbs Tyler. I have trouble knowing how much, as my inclination is to eat loads. How much carb do you eat, and how often do you take it if you don't mind me asking?
Is fat still your primary source of energy?
Cheers, Josh
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Thanks for the info on fertilized eggs, Tyler. I had wondered why those were supposed to be superior.
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In Aajous's books (and i've noticed it also) I get anxiety attacks from to much fruit and nuts. both he says are less important then the meats. (if i eat to many almonds i get panic attacks and have evn had times that i couldn't sleep at night.) also certian fruits set me off (2 many strawberries as an example) I tr and maintai (though not on purpose it just happens this way) an 80 20 ration meat to other things. I was a vergitarian before i learned about this type of diet and this one works better for your mind and emotional state i think ;)
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My heart beat got more rapid from grain and/or nuts. I don't think fruit ever did that, but didn't help either.
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The risk of too much weight loss is one reason why I didn't go straight to all raw, as I was already thin to start with and need to actually gain weight, not lose it. So I still lightly cook some of my meats and render suet and gradually reduce the amount of cooking I do, trying to avoid the period of weight loss that Lex and Josh and others experienced when going straight to raw. I also weigh myself daily and force myself to eat more when my weight dips down. When I went by my hunger alone I lost too much weight on VLC near-RPD.
I hope to reach that point where Lex did where he started to gain weight naturally again.
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Hi Phil. I think the low carb is a major factor in the weight loss thing. When I came across this forum, I was trying low carb cooked paleo and it was very similar in that respect. From what Lex said it seems to be a case of getting through the initial weight loss from ketosis and into a more stable state. The raw meat seems difficult to digest at first, but once you're over the worst of that not sure how much difference raw makes.
Cooking the meat could make it easier to digest or at least easier to eat more. I'm not sure what 'work' rendering the fat is doing in this context though...? I found raw meat hard to take at first, but raw marrow and suet seem to be the easiest things on the stomach out of all raw and cooked foods.
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...The raw meat seems difficult to digest at first, but once you're over the worst of that not sure how much difference raw makes.
Cooking the meat could make it easier to digest or at least easier to eat more. I'm not sure what 'work' rendering the fat is doing in this context though...? I found raw meat hard to take at first, but raw marrow and suet seem to be the easiest things on the stomach out of all raw and cooked foods.
I find cooked lean meat to be harder to digest than raw--cooked lean sits in my stomach like shoe leather. Many other people have noticed this too.
Raw, unground intramuscular fat and gristle have been difficult for me to avoid gagging on and to digest well--though it's getting gradually easier in both respects.
Suet and tallow tasted and smelled nasty to me at first, but I've gotten to the point where I love tallow and I never had a problem digesting it. I found that I love ground, unspiced venison, so I think I'll bite the monetary bullet and buy lots more of that to help me transition and keep the weight up.
I still like the variety that eating some cooked meats enables me to enjoy at this stage, and I think that helps me eat more, but by interesting coincidence I got tiny acne breakouts the last two times I ate cooked meat and fish. It could be just coincidence, but I'll keep my eye on it. If it happens repeatedly, that would seem to confirm that I do better on raw.
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Could be copper/metal dumping. Could be allergies to some thing else the animal is being fed. People lie.
Some people when actually eating a more of a balanced mineral ratio begin to dump copper build ups, and that can mimic schizophrenia pretty easily. I've screwed around a lot with diet thinking it would solve all my problems, when in reality it WAS solving them but VERY slowly. Now that I'm forcing a lot of it I'm getting some pretty awesome results. Metal toxicity is a VERY REAL problem and I highly recommend you understand how the body begins to detoxify some of these agents. A raw meat diet will most certainly cover a large range of toxicity issues. This is the biggest issue with veggie/vegan diets. When your zinc/copper is out of balance copper begins to go up and up and up. It will cause bloody horrible problems in the body. High nut/seed diets in my experience now is an INSANE concept.
Hair analysis will give you a better idea if you got metal issues. I'm well aware of the controversy around hair analysis, and I'm sorry to be the one to tell people this but any one refuting one of the well practiced hair analysis labs is either brain washed or is trying to hurt the public. A lot of this 'debunking' around it is simply dangerous propaganda leading people away from one of the biggest causes of our health problems in this age. Getting your metal tested from your hair is one of the most important health tests I could ever suggest any one get. But it's got to be from a lab that does it RIGHT.
As far as what the animals being fed, when I eat poorly fed animal meat my psychosis begins to kick in within days. I begin to get very homicidal/suicidal feelings if I eat meat that has been fed grain/soy/corn. Sticking with raw grass fed buffalo/lamb meats has been SWEEET!!!
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can i just say..
a)nice post
b)great to hear you are doing so well :)
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Thanks! I'm doing a lot better now that I'm targeting what was really making me sick. It's a long road ahead though, lots of bases to cover. I've kept up raw meat the whole time though, I would absolutely say it has kept me strong through this period of my life.
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I think you might be onto something. I have had a test a couple of years ago when I was feeling dodgy. Not sure if it was hair or blood, but they told me I had mineral imbalances - I'll dig out the test results as I can't remember exactly.
Also, I've been taking a good multimineral for a week or so and I believe it's helped to sort me out.
Metal toxicity is a VERY REAL problem and I highly recommend you understand how the body begins to detoxify some of these agents
Know any good sites or books?
It's encouraging that you're having sucess on strict raw paleo. I will def give it another go, but I just need to feel good for a while now and do other things. Maybe when I save up some pennies I'll take a holiday in the Phillipines and eat meat and fruit and crash out on my own all day :)
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I used to sell supplements, herbs, etc. in a health store and minerals were one of the few things that actually worked for my customers and me. Luckily, raw meat is loaded with bioavailable minerals, so if you stick with it any deficiencies you may have should improve. I've noticed mine have been resolving fairly rapidly.
Now, any time I get a mineral deficiency symptom like a toe cramp from going too long without eating, I just eat some raw meat and it quickly resolves.
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I think you might be onto something. I have had a test a couple of years ago when I was feeling dodgy. Not sure if it was hair or blood, but they told me I had mineral imbalances - I'll dig out the test results as I can't remember exactly.
Also, I've been taking a good multimineral for a week or so and I believe it's helped to sort me out.
Know any good sites or books?
It's encouraging that you're having sucess on strict raw paleo. I will def give it another go, but I just need to feel good for a while now and do other things. Maybe when I save up some pennies I'll take a holiday in the Phillipines and eat meat and fruit and crash out on my own all day :)
No no no, not strict. I do beef bone broths with vegetables, and other things. I don't really focus any more on raw or cooked, I just find my self eating mostly raw. But if some one is in a position to do raw paleo with out a bunch of the serious food allergies or supply issues I suffer, they should go for it. I would be doing it if my supplies were solid. Doesn't change the fact I know the benefits of a raw paleo diet when done properly. It's almost impossible for me to attempt based on where I live and how many liars I have encountered. I've been through maybe like twenty different suppliers of meat and only two of them are honest about their business. Instead what I'm focusing on is mostly raw and really trying to move towards low carb.
Some may say I should go with sea food, but my body seems to reject sea food. I literally can't swallow it my body won't let me. Raw buffalo and lamb is the strange situation I'm stuck in. My goal though is to get my body where it can consume most food(especially food rations). I really don't like the idea of being stuck in a diet that relies on specific supplies, in an emergency situation I would feel much more comfortable being able to consume foods that are way less healthy to get by. Basically, supplies and my bodies condition dictate what I eat. I really can't be put into any specific diet, but when my body gets better and I rid my self of these allergies I will most certainly be eating raw paleo.
As far as the heavy metals issue goes Andy Cutler and Ann Louise Gittleman are good starting points. It's important to know that removing heavy metals incorrectly(mercury ESPECIALLY) can lead to very bad side effects and even very bad damage. Aajonous in my opinion is dangerous to be listening to when it comes to metals, parasites and chemicals.
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Thanks dudes.
I was also thinking about histamine today, which ties up with the copper thing. High histamine describes my experiences perfectly.
http://www.healthrecovery.com/HRC_2006/Depression_06/D_roller_coaster.htm