Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Health => Topic started by: Python on September 18, 2009, 02:10:36 am
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Anyone else notice that previously damaged teeth were recovering on an RAF diet?
I swear that damage from braces and unintentional etching on my teeth are recovering in that the past etching seems to have filled in, my teeth don't have any plaque problems anymore, and they're no longer sensitive like they were were when I was raw vegan.
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Yes, I've had some pits and grooves fill in on my teeth, though I still have defects. My teeth feel like ivory that has just been polished by the hygienist every day now.
I also had a big, visible hole all the way to the root in one of my teeth that was very painful if I didn't take prescription fluoride regularly. I no longer need fluoride and this hole is mostly filled in now.
My teeth are also firmer and straighter and my gums are healthier looking and don't bleed nearly as much.
Lex's teeth also firmed and his jaw bone density increased on his dental x-rays.
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This thread makes me SO happy. I am now concentrating on remineralizing my son's teeth through diet and have been leaning heavily toward adding raw meats and raw fats. I am working on finding a source for raw pastured butter and cream, as they seem scarce around here.
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I got excellent teeth after getting rid of all (raw and pasteurised) dairy years ago. They were incredibly loose(with bleeding gums) during those times I still consumed dairy, but as soon as I cut out the dairy, my teeth became incredibly strong.
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I am working on finding a source for raw pastured butter and cream, as they seem scarce around here.
Raw dairy is forbidden in Canada by law; any farmer known to sell or give such will lose the farm and end up on welfare in a stinking city after jail time.
Except in Quebec, where it is possible to find raw cheese.
You may drink the raw milk of a cow/goat/sheep only if you own it, AFAIK.
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Now if there were on;y a cure for clumsy dentists. Way back when I was a kid, the dentist smoothed out a chipped tooth (against my wishes, as I thought t chipped tooth looked cool - hahaha!) and then decided, while he was at it, to take the liberty of filing down my rather large canines.
Now the canines are flat.
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Wow, that's really stupid. Why the hell would a dentist do that? I had a tooth that was filed down after it was chipped but they ended up making it sharper so I can't say I really mind.
At some point I just have to wonder what all the sugar craze is about. People have moved away eating foods that are actually what their bodies are made of and eat foods that are high in energy but incapable of building or replacing the materials of the body and it's really interesting how many of the degenerative diseases of the body will recover when you just put back the stuff the body is made of into the body.
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This thread makes me SO happy. I am now concentrating on remineralizing my son's teeth through diet and have been leaning heavily toward adding raw meats and raw fats. I am working on finding a source for raw pastured butter and cream, as they seem scarce around here.
Like Tyler, my dental health improved greatly without dairy, and in my area grassfed suet is more readily available and cheaper than raw butter and other dairy fats, so in some areas it is possible to build up and maintain dental health on animal body fats without any dairy fats.
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I find that the best way remineralize teeth is to stick to the fruitarian aspect of the raw paleo diet and forget about RAF entirely. I eat fish and eggs sometimes [I did today), but in general you're better off having animal protein cooked if at all, mainly due to parasites etc.
The only catch is that you have to supplement calcium + magnesium and it might be a good idea to use vitamin d as well. This is because your teeth in all likelihood grew too much from the start. Then use a mouthwash about twice a day and brush once and your teeth will remineralize.
While I'm well aware that RAF and this idea of humans going off hunting in bands excitedly has captured the imagination and admiration of many folk here, I feel some people need a sharp dose of reality. Fruit is incontestably the food of choice for all apes, nearly all primates in fact. Fruitarianism is a lot closer to the reality of what paleo man actually took until around the neolithic period [which is when life expectency dropped to 20, incidentally).
Wooh!!! Look at me, I have the highest level of forager and just made one post!!!
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Hi SuperInfinity version 2.0. :) Did you have your dental checkup yet? My next one's coming up.
I find that the best way remineralize teeth is to stick to the fruitarian aspect of the raw paleo diet and forget about RAF entirely. I eat fish and eggs sometimes [I did today), but in general you're better off having animal protein cooked if at all, mainly due to parasites etc.
The only catch is that you have to supplement calcium + magnesium and it might be a good idea to use vitamin d as well.
Even better, on RAF my teeth remineralized without having to use those supplements.
This is because your teeth in all likelihood grew too much from the start.
Grew too much?
Then use a mouthwash about twice a day and brush once and your teeth will remineralize.
I don't need mouthwash on RAF--I only use it the morning after eating some carbs on social occasions or as an alternative to brushing if I don't need a brush.
I feel some people need a sharp dose of reality.
Spare us the lectures please.
Fruit is incontestably the food of choice for all apes, nearly all primates in fact.
Not true. The mountain gorilla is one of the great apes and only 2% of its diet was found to be fruit, whereas 86% was leaves, shoots and stems (see http://www.seaworld.org/animal-info/info-books/gorilla/diet.htm).
Don't forget that tarsiers are obligate faunivores. All primates eat some fauna and every human society ever studied ate some fauna. So the only food choice that is foreign to humanity is eating only flora. It has no historical precedent among any complete human or nonhuman primate society of any significant size.
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Hi SuperInfinity version 2.0. :) Did you have your dental checkup yet? My next one's coming up.
I did, and he said I just needed a little bit of work on one of my teeth. He used some lingo I can't recall but I think the main gist of it was that the teeth/nerves were actually growing too much! They were growing into each other and that's basically what was causing the pain.
I admit I was really relieved when I heard that as I had said here that my teeth were bugging me a little bit, especially that one or two when brushing. So I started taking magnesium, which is rare in fruit and I started taking extra caution and using anti-septic mouthwash whenever I felt my teeth were getting a bit dirty. Within about a week of that all my tooth problems simply disappeared! I don't know whether it was the magnesium or the mouthwash, but my teeth are definitely going fine now.
Grew too much?
Yes, malformed and overextended from copious amounts of food and dairy when they were young. I believe that we are also too tall, we grew too much by use of artificial foods and hormones. That's why we need extra calcium&magnesium supplements articially. That's why people get skeleton injuries so often. Did you know that supercentarians are nearly always around five foot five or less??? And they didn't lose THAT amount of height in their lives.
Obviously Dr. Weston Price's book shows very clearly that many westerner's teeth are malformed, crooked, and so on. My teeth were growing crooked before I got braces. Many teeth grow HUGE, the teeth of indigenous tribes are small. How much more proof do you need?! Our teeth are not well-formed frankly. Some of these things need constant "maintainance" because of the permanent damage done to them.
Also: How can you be pro-RAF and yet anti-dairy? Would you not consider there to be a contradiction there? You can't just take the things that suit the idea RAF is good for you and leave out what doesn't appear to be healthy [even if it's tasty and indigenous tribes eat it). I eat whatever I like when I like, the only rule I try to follow is that I don't let others prepare it. I don't even bother trying to eat cruciferous vegetables I like anymore.
Not true. The mountain gorilla is one of the great apes and only 2% of its diet was found to be fruit, whereas 86% was leaves, shoots and stems (see http://www.seaworld.org/animal-info/info-books/gorilla/diet.htm).
Careful, look at what I said. I said it is the food of CHOICE. As in, they would eat it above all other foods if they could. For example, the neanderthals were primates and would have been great apes so obviously fruit would have been their food of choice. But as it was not abundant they had to try to rely on animal protein and went extinct. Fruit is not available easily in that region, so they have to make-do with other foods.
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How do you want it this time, SuperInfinity? Slowly build up the level of disrespect in your posts until I ban you back to the depths of Hell, or just ban you immediately?
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Slow build-up please as I dislike shocks to my system. :)
I do feel that we're all grown too big artificially. It explains so many things. I have no idea how calcium/magnesium works out on a RAF diet, but I'd wager you have to look for it to get it [especially the calcium). If you have to look for something and can't just eat "instinctively", then there's something amiss. Paleo man was not worried about calcium etc. Of course there's the extra vitamin b12 thing for vegans, I won't insult your intelligence by talking about all the arguments/explanations there. And I really would like an answer as to why it's okay to cut milk out on RAF, you'll probably say something like "organic, fresh, unpasteurised milk is a very good food, but not supermarket milk".... but that's not really the full reason.
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ha, i dunno he's kinda funny to have around. i don't even know what he's talking about half the time but it always sounds ridiculous.
superinfinity2, i mean you just said yourself "If you have to look for something and can't just eat "instinctively", then there's something amiss." and in your previous post you have this to say about your fruitarian diet: "The only catch is that you have to supplement calcium + magnesium and it might be a good idea to use vitamin d as well." what are you smoking? can i have some?
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Yeah, SI can be funny at times with his off-the-wall stuff, but it wasn't funny when SI#1 started to repeat himself and insult people, which I hope SI#2 won't do.
I did, and he said I just needed a little bit of work on one of my teeth. He used some lingo I can't recall but I think the main gist of it was that the teeth/nerves were actually growing too much! They were growing into each other and that's basically what was causing the pain.
I suspect that if you ask your dentist he'll explain that the problem wasn't that your teeth grew too much, but that they grew at the wrong angle or in the wrong place, resulting in them growing into each other instead of straight up, such as with impacted wisdom teeth.
Yes, malformed and overextended from copious amounts of food and dairy when they were young.
It sounds like you're talking about malocclusion, but I've never encountered someone calling it "growing too much" or "overextended" before.
That's why we need extra calcium&magnesium supplements articially.
My teeth are firming, indicating increasing bone density, without calcium supplements.
Many teeth grow HUGE, the teeth of indigenous tribes are small. How much more proof do you need?!
I suspect you were smiling when you wrote that one. ;)
Also: How can you be pro-RAF and yet anti-dairy? Would you not consider there to be a contradiction there?
No, and I don't understand how people conflate the two. Cow's dairy is for baby cows. Human dairy is for baby humans. Adult mammals are not designed to continue eating dairy after weaning. No adult wild carnivore on earth consumes dairy as a staple food (especially given that most dairy foods, including even raw butter and raw cheese, are made using devices of some sort, such as butter churns). It's unnatural and accumulating scientific evidence indicates pasteurized dairy products have many negative effects on the humans who consume them.
Observant Hindus eat dairy but no beef. If you're consistent, then you would consider that a contradiction also, yes?
You can't just take the things that suit the idea RAF is good for you and leave out what doesn't appear to be healthy
1) Who made you diet dictocrat? I can do whatever I want. 2) Not all RAF dieters eat dairy. 3) I usually don't call myself RAF--I tend to call myself a mostly-raw carnivorous Paleo dieter with occasional cheating, or carnivorous RPD for short, or just RPD for simplicity.
I eat whatever I like when I like, the only rule I try to follow is that I don't let others prepare it.
I know. Yours is a diet movement of one. ;) Did you upset the real raw fruitarians or raw vegans yet with your lack of adherence to their dictates?
Careful, look at what I said. I said it is the food of CHOICE. As in, they would eat it above all other foods if they could.
Choice is irrelevant to health. I might choose to eat ice cream if it's available to me, but that doesn't make it healthy.
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superinfinity2, i mean you just said yourself "If you have to look for something and can't just eat "instinctively", then there's something amiss." and in your previous post you have this to say about your fruitarian diet: "The only catch is that you have to supplement calcium + magnesium and it might be a good idea to use vitamin d as well." what are you smoking? can i have some?
lol... the thing that's amiss is neither diet, it's our teeth's formation. If paleo man had to be extra careful to eat any foods to get xyz without being in extreme pain for much of his life, then for me that means there's something amiss with our own physiology [or possibly non-food activity). Paleo man didn't make sure to take certain foods, he just took what he felt like and what was available and it wouldn't make evolutionary sense for him to be "wrong" about it. He would be perfectly adapted for that environment.
I suspect that if you ask your dentist he'll explain that the problem wasn't that your teeth grew too much, but that they grew at the wrong angle or in the wrong place, resulting in them growing into each other instead of straight up, such as with impacted wisdom teeth.
Probably, the filling on that tooth was a bit strange from when he did it at first.
It sounds like you're talking about malocclusion, but I've never encountered someone calling it "growing too much" or "overextended" before.
I hadn't heard of that term before. You should know not to trust medical labels as being a guide for anything. Medicine tries to put a "symptoms => disease/condition => prognosis" scenario on everything when what's in between can cause an awful lot of problems: Just because there isn't a medical label on your teeth or bones does not mean there isn't something wrong with them!!!! It would also explain the rapid rise in height of homo sapiens.... in a nutshell there may not have been any: just refined foods and plenty of dairy in the modern world!!!
No, and I don't understand how people conflate the two. Cow's dairy is for baby cows. Human dairy is for baby humans. Adult mammals are not designed to continue eating dairy after weaning. No adult wild carnivore on earth consumes dairy as a staple food (especially given that most dairy foods, including even raw butter and raw cheese, are made using devices of some sort, such as butter churns). It's unnatural and accumulating scientific evidence indicates pasteurized dairy products have many negative effects on the humans who consume them.
The indigenous tribes drink it though all the time, just as sure as they eat eggs and animal flesh. I can't see how drinking an animal's blood and their milk are such different things from the perspective of evolution.
Observant Hindus eat dairy but no beef. If you're consistent, then you would consider that a contradiction also, yes?
Maybe if they're doing it from an evolutionary perspective. You could argue though that you can continue milking a cow while it's alive, not if you eat it!!!
1) Who made you diet dictocrat? I can do whatever I want. 2) Not all RAF dieters eat dairy. 3) I usually don't call myself RAF--I tend to call myself a mostly-raw carnivorous Paleo dieter with occasional cheating, or carnivorous RPD for short, or just RPD for simplicity.
You can do what you want, just don't expect me to believe you on how great your diet is when the evidence you're presenting works for other foods as well that you won't take!!!!...
Choice is irrelevant to health. I might choose to eat ice cream if it's available to me, but that doesn't make it healthy.
WRONG PaleoPhil. Ice-cream is a prepared food so it doesn't count. I'm talking about foods you'd find yourself in the wild. Humans are perfectly evolved to make optimal use of their environment for gaining food. Just like the evolution of the eye is hard to understand or imagine... it's the same with our taste. We want to eat whatever's best for us. Why would it be any other way? If it were then in two generations natural selection would have been wiping out the poor tasting guys. Our tastes and often extremely strong food desires are not just random nonsense, they are extremely well evolved to get the best food into our system. The only thing that can possibly mess it up is cooking or other modern processing of food.
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The indigenous tribes drink it though all the time, just as sure as they eat eggs and animal flesh. I can't see how drinking an animal's blood and their milk are such different things from the perspective of evolution.
Are you defending dairy consumption? Why do you avoid dairy, or if you consume it, why do you do so?
You can do what you want, just don't expect me to believe you on how great your diet is when the evidence you're presenting works for other foods as well that you won't take!!!!...
I don't expect you to, and perhaps you should follow your own advice and not expect others to believe you on how great your diet is.
I'm talking about foods you'd find yourself in the wild.
If you're talking about me, then I've found that I do far better on raw meats and animal fats than I do on raw fruits, as I've mentioned numerous times. I take your word for it that you do better on raw fruits and don't know why you haven't taken my word for it that I do better on raw meats and animal fats.
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This 2nd incarnation has been banned. Also, please do not feed trolls.
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Now if there were on;y a cure for clumsy dentists. Way back when I was a kid, the dentist smoothed out a chipped tooth (against my wishes, as I thought t chipped tooth looked cool - hahaha!) and then decided, while he was at it, to take the liberty of filing down my rather large canines.
Now the canines are flat.
Unfortunately, I've had more than one dentist who was like that, and it started when I was single digit age and my family had "better things" to be concerned about, for the most part. I guess most adults have grown up to bow to any doctor no matter his unruly actions or lies, to one degree or another.
This thread makes me SO happy. I am now concentrating on remineralizing my son's teeth through diet and have been leaning heavily toward adding raw meats and raw fats. I am working on finding a source for raw pastured butter and cream, as they seem scarce around here.
I widened my jaw and gave more room for my teeth. My teeth then moved a little to be less crowded and in slightly better position. This all happened for me dietwise by dropping veganism completely, and instead doing highest raw fat fermented pasture grazed dairy and egg yolks as possible percentage-wise. I combined my foods according to the Primal Diet, using minute amounts fruit, unheated honey and flesh foods.
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Hi ya'all;
I was raw vegan for almost 5 years; 85-100%. It did some good, in the beginning but the longer I stayed on it, the wors it got. Today; I miss seven teeth. Had severe pains in my gums; bleeding.... If I had only known. All those days and nights of wondering; 'why?' - I eat so darn healthy!'
How is it possible to detox ones teeth on a preferably healthy raw vegan diet with fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, sprouts, oil, sesame seed mylk (allergic to almonds to this very day), green smoothies, etc. How come my bowel always answered with rumbling noice and diarrea?
Today, my body simply crave animal fats in huge amounts to keep my mouth pain- and free of bleeding. Today I need raw meeat to simply function and keep my weight stable (I'll get back to that in other forums with pictures later) and also;all this I need to keep my belly qalm and happy!
Life is simply beautiful! 8)
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Hi Ayla!
Skönt att träffa en svenska här! ;)
I´v experienced the same somehow. It looks like Vegan Rawfood really hurt your teeht(and your intestines..). I was newer Vegan, but high fruit/vegs. And I really feel that fat and Wild Meet helps a lot for my gums. Even Flaxseeds. Strange. Me too have been thinking about if it is "detoxing your teeth" or something else..?? Maybe somthing is missing?
I really dont understand.
Here in Hamburg I met a Woman last week on a Raw-Vegan Potluck, and she is really bad off. Looks like a skeleton. Now she wants me to help her, because she sed she thinks I look helthy and she cannot stand it anymore. Even if she knows I eat meat. She is 100% raw-vegan for three years and eat a lot of Wild edibles. A lot. And all kind of nice stuff like Young Coconuts and Durian. It doesn´t seems to help. And there are a lot of them out there. I´m not sure I can help her.. :( For sure I will suggest, she have to eat meat etc. But I dont know if it really helps anymore. She is really bloated all the time. Sad.
I´m so happy I was never Vegan. So I have all my teehts still. But some Cavietes I have. But they dont hurt so I just leave it like it is. l) And my teeth feels almost nice. ;D
Ayla, I´m so happy you are well now. :)
How old are you, if I may ask? I´m 33 years old.
Kram,
Inger
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My gums are progressively receding, don't bleed, not inflamed, just receding. I stopped eating bread and dairy. Do not eat many acidic fruits. Have not transitioned to raw meat-fat yet. Will gradually try it.
I like Durian, have not had it in a long time but there is nothing like it on earth, if can stand the smell.
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receding gums are often a reflection of bone loss. Bone loss in the jaw structure can also come from gum pockets harboring unhealthy bacteria, that feed on sugars/carbs. The acids these bacteria not only cause carries but also attach tissue structures and subsequently bone.
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Well, I'm not so sure about that. Here in BC we can have cow shares. I have found an expensive source for raw milk and butter here now, and lots of the organic cheeses are apparently made with raw milk (I find those even in the grocery store, I'm just not sure if they're grassfed). At the farmers market they were telling me that they can sell raw cheeses, but they're required to be aged for a year.
Raw dairy is forbidden in Canada by law; any farmer known to sell or give such will lose the farm and end up on welfare in a stinking city after jail time.
Except in Quebec, where it is possible to find raw cheese.
You may drink the raw milk of a cow/goat/sheep only if you own it, AFAIK.
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I got a three years aged cow cheese a couple of times from Quebec. It was ambiguously labeled. They say it is raw, but heated enough to kill bacteria. Doesn't sound raw to me. It also has salt in it, which kills the healthy bacteria in cheese. I would imagine this place might be good instead:
Becancour: Fromagerie L'Ancetre, 1615 boul de Port-Royal, Becancour, QC , G9H 1X7, (819) 233-9157. http://www.ctidirectory.com/search/company.cfm?company=60965 (http://www.ctidirectory.com/search/company.cfm?company=60965)
as you have to be in Quebec to get it. The one I got was imported to the US and I got it in a healthfood co-op. I didn't buy it for myself. I know cow is supposed to work better than goat, but I don't care what kind of mammal my cheese comes from, I look more for no salt added to the cheese, especially when it comes to tooth health.
Hard raw cheeses are supposed to serve better health purpose than soft. I'm not sure why. I do know some places that sell raw hard cheeses pasteurize their soft cheeses.
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I'm so sick of the seriously salty cheeses I have to deal with at work. I can understand a bit....but not THAT much
Sorry if i missed a point - why do you consider salt bad for teeth?
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Two reasons:
1. The cheese already has minerals you want for your teeth. Salting it not only kills healthy bacteria nthat we would have wanted to rebuild our health, but also can partially replace our minerals with salt, not a thing I want to do while trying to grow bone and tooth.
2. Salt can encourage swelling to happen. The swelling can push on the nerves of the teeth. If we already had tooth pain, this increases the pain.
Raw unsalted cheese actually helps mitigate tooth pain. I still would recommend it.
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RawZi - is this true of all salt? Not just in cheese? I had no idea.
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It depends on what the rest of your diet is and the state of your health and teeth.
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I now recall that almost all the genuinely raw cheeses I've seen in the UK have always been thoroughly salted - now I realise that's because the salt kills off the bacteria. Yuck!
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I believe salt mostly preserves from BAD bacteria - think about sauerkraut, kim chi, tamari, and so many other fermented products. they are filled with healthy bacteria even though there is loads of sea salt in there. if salt was to kill bacteria how could they ever ferment?
geez, if salt was to kill bacteria how could there ever have been life on earth? =P
or maybe i didnt get exactly what you mean? :s
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Have you made miso, sauerkraut and kimchi? I have. You don't have to use salt. Of course it's a different product then. I have been vegan. When I was, unsalted kraut helped me. Eating raw meat now, sauerkraut doesn't seem to work. Kimchi I find a bit spicy. Miso I felt was helping me, but not so much with the salted, yet so with the unsalted. I got medical tests done. Turned out miso was definitely not helping me, salted or not, rather the reverse. It was hurting my health.
I have taken raw unsalted cheese and left it for months in the refrigerator. I've done the same with salted raw cheeses. The mold, consistency and taste of the unsalted raw consistently comes out excellent. The salted has more inconsistent results, and never as good.
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Interesting. I googled salt and bacteria and there were quite a few people claiming that salt does kill bacteria. If true, this could help explain what Stefansson observed--that salted meats did not prevent scurvy, whereas fresh meats did. Could it be that salt kills off some of the bacteria in the meats and maybe some in the human intestine as well? Could sufficient pro-biotic bacteria in a human intestine help prevent scurvy by producing vitamin C when fresh (and high) meat is eaten?
The fact that even cooked meats, mostly depleted of vitamin C, prevent scurvy has puzzled scientists for generations. Could bacteria be the missing part of the scurvy puzzle? Perhaps an all-meat diet promotes vitamin-C producing bacteria in the intestines and maybe some of the bacteria in the meat survives cooking if not cooked at too high temps or for too long? I found a couple links that indicate that some bacteria can indeed produce vitamin C:
"Examples of known bacteria able to directly produce Vitamin C include, for instance, strains from the genera of Gluconobacter, Gluconacetobacter, Acetobacter, Ketogulonicigenium, Pantoea, Pseudomonas or Escherichia. Examples of known yeast or algae include, e.g., Candida, Saccharomyces, Zygosaccharomyces, Schizosaccharomyces, Kluyveromyces or Chlorella." (Novel gene sts 22, http://www.freshpatents.com/-dt20090827ptan20090215135.php)
"It has been found that the homogeneous enzyme, e.g. isolated from the soluble fraction of bacterial cells of specific microorganisms, catalyzes the oxidation of L-gulono-gamma-lactone to L-ascorbic acid." (L-gulono-gamma-lactone-dehydrogenase for producing vitamin C, http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5250428.html)
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what do you mean by RAF?
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Raw animal food
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:) Hej Inger! Förlåt mitt sena svar! Har haft lite fullt upp med skolstart, familjeförkylningar (Not me), tentor å annat.
I've been around here but never seem to have the time to answer or debate. I don't really have the time now either, have so much to do; writing papers, finish midterm exams etc. I study theology right now so it's kind of heavy :D
About my diet; I did stray a little, my own fault...but at least now people around me can see that I'm not joking or trying to be special; I do get sick on traditional swedish cooking, intolerant to sukralos, fenylanalin, aspartame, white bread, sugary fruits etc. They are so thrilled about the effects when I stay raw paleo. But, one funny thing though; my brain(memory, etc) need fruit....I had to do some experiments and yes. I function much better with some fruits, berries and leafy greens. So I make these compromises. I make green smoothies with local, seasoned fruits and berries except for a occacional banana and greens, not every day, just a couple of times per week, and also. On a mainly fatty meat diet my dandruff actually came back (bakslag...)!! But it goes away cutting back on that and with having some fresh fruit produce etc. It's so weird. I have to be extremly careful concerning my dental health though, have to keep watch for how much fruits I can tolerate. The body is a strange creation...
I'm 46 now and feel grateful for not having a singel wrinkle! Wow! ;D
Okej, have to go now! Talk to you soon, Inger. Love and Peace from Sweden!
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Good to see more members from Scandinavia, with all their fondness for raw animal foods like gravlax etc.!
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Hmm great discussion. SO much important information. Thanks for the sharing guys. keep it up.
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But, one funny thing though; my brain(memory, etc) need fruit....I had to do some experiments and yes. I function much better with some fruits, berries and leafy greens. So I make these compromises. I make green smoothies with local, seasoned fruits and berries except for a occasional banana and greens, not every day, just a couple of times per week, and also. On a mainly fatty meat diet my dandruff actually came back (bakslag...)!! But it goes away cutting back on that and with having some fresh fruit produce etc. It's so weird. I have to be extremely careful concerning my dental health though, have to keep watch for how much fruits I can tolerate. The body is a strange creation...
I'm 46 now and feel grateful for not having a single wrinkle! Wow! ;D
I use organic Colombian coffee for brain function - 3-5 cups/day at reported 1 gram carb./cup, and there is something in tobacco smoke that stimulates activity in the corpus callosum - used for critical analysis/creation. Females might need the carbohydrates from fruit.
It might be that we need extra support for brain function because of the weaker earth's magnetic field and/or lesser oxygen content of air compared to paleolithic age.
e-cigs were an expensive alternative to tobacco, but quickly banned in Canada. Pity.
In study of theology, do they include pre-Christian North European?
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my brain(memory, etc) need fruit....I had to do some experiments and yes. I function much better with some fruits, berries and leafy greens. So I make these compromises. I make green smoothies with local, seasoned fruits and berries except for a occacional banana and greens, not every day, just a couple of times per week, and also. ...
I have to be extremly careful concerning my dental health though, have to keep watch for how much fruits I can tolerate. The body is a strange creation...
I'm 46 now and feel grateful for not having a singel wrinkle!
This is very similar to my experience. Like GoodSamaritan, I do believe we need plant food. I think the demands of the modern brain require some simple sugars, and perhaps that is also a gender issue, I hadn't considered that. I'm now trying to figure out now how much is enough. Your comments are extremely helpful.
Like you, I observe the same caution regarding teeth & fruit.
Congratulations on your smooth complexion - the envy of all aging women!
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...I'm 46 now and feel grateful for not having a singel wrinkle! Wow! ;D...
Hmmm, I am nearly 46 myself without any wrinkles, but hadn't considered that unusual. Is this considered rare?
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i'm about your age too. also none. i think it IS more rare on a woman.
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i'm about your age too. also none. i think it IS more rare on a woman.
hi rawzi, the main thing to get the wrinkle free skin is to have a tress free life, than diet. people think that i go to highschool or so. they never can guess my age. my goal is to stay young even when i'll be a grandma.
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Well, I have a high-stress life, but still no wrinkles. If I wasn't balding I think people would think I go to high school too. :)
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Well, I have a high-stress life, but still no wrinkles. If I wasn't balding I think people would think I go to high school too. :)
i think you get that genetically or who knows all those raw things you're eating probably fixing you up for the next five hundreds yrs to live... thank you for that lovely journal. great post!!
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Well, I have a high-stress life, but still no wrinkles. If I wasn't balding I think people would think I go to high school too. :)
Do you choose a high stress life? or circumstances not totally in your control have created a stressful life? I have no wrinkles, salt and pepper hair (pretty obvious by 25) with zero balding. I think a raw meat diet would help prevent wrinkles.
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hi rawzi, the main thing to get the wrinkle free skin is to have a tress free life, than diet. people think that i go to highschool or so. they never can guess my age. my goal is to stay young even when i'll be a grandma.
I have stress. Health is more complicated. One of the things was my thyroid I think. I got a couple grays as a preteen and skin would burn deeply incredibly fast if in sun at all and my skin noticeably thinned. In early thirties I got a bunch of grays and had a malar rash. RAF did get rid of the grays and made the hairs in my hairline childlike again, my skin hasn't burnt since and my skin feels somewhat childlike (real moisture, bouncy). If RAF makes a stress free life, that's my answer. For me health is more multidimensional in other ways too.
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If RAF makes a stress free life, that's my answer.
I wouldn't say it makes life stress free but it does make it so much easier to deal with any stress. Things just kind of go on around me now and I don't get sucked into the frenzy. :)
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Do you choose a high stress life? or circumstances not totally in your control have created a stressful life? I have no wrinkles, salt and pepper hair (pretty obvious by 25) with zero balding. I think a raw meat diet would help prevent wrinkles.
External circumstance stress can certainly take it's toll. I aged more in a 2 yr period of stress out of my control than in the previous 5! I also think genetics are a critical factor. Both my parents look 20yrs younger than their age and most people put me in the 25-28 bracket when I'm actually 38! I'm not sure how much my raw RAF diet has had to do with this as it's always been the case.
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Do you choose a high stress life? or circumstances not totally in your control have created a stressful life? I have no wrinkles, salt and pepper hair (pretty obvious by 25) with zero balding. I think a raw meat diet would help prevent wrinkles.
I doubt anyone chooses stress, although they might choose a career or an activity that they know involves stress because they enjoy it nonetheless, or they want the economic rewards, or because it might lead to something else, etc. Not being in control of one's circumstances is indeed recognized as one of the more egregious stressors, as I recall. Everyone's lives contain some stress, yet some people are healthy nonetheless. Some fighter pilots are calmer than some monks (I have personally known a couple of calm fighter pilots and a highly stressed monk who prayed, meditated and worked outdoors a lot). Like djr, I find that a RPD makes stress much easier to handle--stressful situations usually just sort of wash over me now.
Where I'm coming from, is some physicians and relatives attributed some of my health issues to "stress," and recommended meditation, yoga, and exercise, which I had been doing already as a result of my own research and knowledge and these things had a tiny positive effect, but not much. Of course, one can often never do enough of that stuff to satisfy such people. No matter how much you do it was never "enough," and if you do a ton of it they may even turn around and say you did "too much." If you don't improve greatly they claim you didn't follow some precise magical meditation or exercise formula correctly (even if you followed their instructions exactly). Ironically, I usually was doing more meditation, yoga and exercise than the people who claimed I must not be doing enough and could do more advanced yoga poses than any of them. I find it's the same with supplements, herbs, homeopathy, etc.--even if you follow their instructions exactly on how much to take and when, some folks will claim you must have done something wrong if you didn't get a benefit.
When I inquired about diet and nutrition, many of these same people downplayed it, or rejected it as a possible factor, or gave me bad advice like "eat lots of whole grains and fiber and cut back on red meats and saturated fats." Yet, diet is what eventually helped me more than everything else combined, and the diet that worked was pretty much the opposite of what had been recommended to me. The benefits for me re: stress and overall health came quickly and easily, dramatically, organically, and unconsciously with dietary change, once I figured out what worked for me. It didn't require any mental effort or positive thinking on my part, though it did require some discipline to stick to it.
I did get something out of yoga. I can impress people with my poses and balancing at get-togethers. I was always more flexible than average in some joints, but one of the interesting things is my balance and flexibility increased dramatically when I changed my diet, so that I now can impress people even more with my poses (although I'm not really advanced), even though I practice yoga less now. So now I do it more because it's a fun ability I have without any practice, due to the flexibility, balance and relaxation that the diet provides me, rather than a practice I do to attain improved flexibility, balance and relaxation. It's a lot like Taubes' explanation that people who eat healthier diets have more energy to exercise and get more fun and less pain from doing it than people who eat crap and exercise to try to get healthy.
I've noticed that a lot of people use stress as an excuse or as a conveniently vague catch-all to explain anything for which they don't know the cause (I'm not saying that anyone here necessarily does that). I know someone who refuses to try further modification to her diet when her husband suggests it (and her former doctor, who was one of the rare excellent primary care physicians, gave her a diet plan that cut out all refined flours and dairy--but she ignores it)--even though the changes she did make generated significant benefits. She attributes her remaining health issues to "stress." The media happily supports her in this notion, and encourages her to continue taking medications to treat her "stress."
As always, your mileage may vary.
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Some good points there Phil, as always.
As someone with a vague recollection of possessing character traits including reactive, anxious, quiet, shy .... I can honestly say that I'm now always the calming influence who can bring a reflective, considered mindset to situations perceived and reacted to by others as stressful. I no longer feel overwhelmed or lack confidence. They're subtle changes that have taken place over time but that I feel have been brought about, at least partly, by my RAF diets. I expect this is a result of resolution of metabolic disorders, hormone balance and digestive improvement. I no longer even feel stress.
Interesting to hear your experiences in meditation, yoga and exercise Phil. I think meditation can help with many of these factors but only as part of a whole package. I see and hear of so many people who practice meditation along with what they consider 'healthy' diets in addition to practicing alternative therapies. Many seem to think they can make large gains in these 'pursuits' without following correct diets and I see them make very limited progress.
I agree that correct diet is far more powerful. I wonder what levels we can reach using meditation once we've nailed the diet aspect?! Do you still experiment with meditation? Have you noticed significant differences pre- and post- raw paleo?
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I doubt anyone chooses stress, although they might choose a career or an activity that they know involves stress because they enjoy it nonetheless, or they want the economic rewards, or because it might lead to something else, etc. Not being in control of one's circumstances is indeed recognized as one of the more egregious stressors, as I recall. Everyone's lives contain some stress, yet some people are healthy nonetheless. Some fighter pilots are calmer than some monks (I have personally known a couple of calm fighter pilots and a highly stressed monk who prayed, meditated and worked outdoors a lot). Like djr, I find that a RPD makes stress much easier to handle--stressful situations usually just sort of wash over me now.
Yeah, I meant high paid, high stress job or high maintenance girlfriend/partner etc i believe stress is under recognized as a cause for illness although I find those most affected by it the most likely to deny it.
IMO mental outlook is 50% of the equation, for example we have people here on eating the most amazingly healthy diets (especially compared to SAD) but still claim they feel like they are on deaths door.
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Some good points there Phil, as always.
As someone with a vague recollection of possessing character traits including reactive, anxious, quiet, shy .... I can honestly say that I'm now always the calming influence who can bring a reflective, considered mindset to situations perceived and reacted to by others as stressful.
Same here. People say that nothing seems to bother me and they are shocked when I get visibly frustrated, which hasn't happened in person in over a year, and I like to think happened only once here (in response to another blog), but do correct me if you think I'm forgetting any outbursts. :)
I no longer feel overwhelmed or lack confidence. They're subtle changes that have taken place over time but that I feel have been brought about, at least partly, by my RAF diets. I expect this is a result of resolution of metabolic disorders, hormone balance and digestive improvement. I no longer even feel stress.
Same here. It takes a lot to stress me now--like a superior venting by screaming at the top of his lungs at me over a year ago. Never figured such loud noises could come out of such a wee man. ;) I was basically an innocent bystander and when he got his way (more money for him) he was fawningly friendly later on. Yuck! I think I preferred the screaming. :)
I also used to be easily startled and people could easily sneak up on me without my noticing. Increasingly it is the opposite. Heh, heh, heh! >D
Interesting to hear your experiences in meditation, yoga and exercise Phil. I think meditation can help with many of these factors but only as part of a whole package. I see and hear of so many people who practice meditation along with what they consider 'healthy' diets in addition to practicing alternative therapies. Many seem to think they can make large gains in these 'pursuits' without following correct diets and I see them make very limited progress.
Yup. My father let his poor friend the monk know about Paleo, but he wasn't interested. Despite all his praying and meditating, he was like a high-strung poodle. The monastery he joined required that novices undergo an extended bread-and-water fast which caused his hair to fall out and his teeth to rot (which were all extracted and replaced with false teeth). My father referred him to me. Despite that history, he wouldn't try Paleo. He died a miserable death not long afterward. Very sad. I read his autobiography and it included a long litany of chronic health problems. He was a poster boy of modern food syndrome.
I agree that correct diet is far more powerful. I wonder what levels we can reach using meditation once we've nailed the diet aspect?! Do you still experiment with meditation? Have you noticed significant differences pre- and post- raw paleo?
Yes, this may sound strange, but increasingly it seems like my everyday physiology is becoming more organically meditative/yogic. When I walk, my fingers naturally attain a lotus position and my breathing flows yogically. There are no longer distracting thoughts and fog floating around in my brain. I daydream less and am more focused. Etc., etc.
Yeah, I meant high paid, high stress job or high maintenance girlfriend/partner etc i believe stress is under recognized as a cause for illness although I find those most affected by it the most likely to deny it.
IMO mental outlook is 50% of the equation, for example we have people here on eating the most amazingly healthy diets (especially compared to SAD) but still claim they feel like they are on deaths door.
I agree that chronic stress is important, but I see it as a trigger and symptom, instead of an underlying cause. For me, the stress evaporated and positive outlook became effortless and unconscious when I initially cut out gluten, and later when I went VLC and ZC. I was always more positive than avg despite my past problems, but now more so. Perhaps I am a rare case, but friends and relatives have reported similar results, in varying degrees. I'm sure I still could improve quite a bit, but I'm enjoying the improvements. Some damage is probably too severe to resolve quickly (and I think some people might need special foods or foodlements or missing nutrient replacements, or whatever you want to call them, to correct deficiencies from past poor diet), or perhaps at all, but my own rejuvenation has been better than I expected. As always, YMMV and I'm not telling anyone else what to do.
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Yup. My father let his poor friend the monk know about Paleo, but he wasn't interested. Despite all his praying and meditating, he was like a high-strung poodle. The monastery he joined required that novices undergo an extended bread-and-water fast which caused his hair to fall out and his teeth to rot (which were all extracted and replaced with false teeth). My father referred him to me. Despite that history, he wouldn't try Paleo. He died a miserable death not long afterward. Very sad. I read his autobiography and it included a long litany of chronic health problems. He was a poster boy of modern food syndrome.
Unfortunately, that seems a familiar story. I have friends who dedicate their lives to meditation, yoga, vegetarianism, alternative therapies etc. It often appears to be a 'lifestyle choice' despite the inevitable consequences. I was probably into all of those things myself for so long as a lifestyle choice. They represented me as a person and what I stood for I suppose. One becomes ingrained in that and with the social network of, often, kind, loving, peaceful people it attracts.
Yes, this may sound strange, but increasingly it seems like my everyday physiology is becoming more organically meditative/yogic. When I walk, my fingers naturally attain a lotus position and my breathing flows yogically. There are no longer distracting thoughts and fog floating around in my brain. I daydream less and am more focused. Etc., etc.
Not strange at all. I get the impression that you're at a more advanced stage of this than myself - probably due to your deeper previous exposure - but can relate to the wonder of life itself becoming a meditation.
Perhaps I am a rare case, but friends and relatives have reported similar results, in varying degrees.
It does appear that such benefits are perhaps less mentioned than obvious physical changes but are equally common.
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PaleoPhil, it's very impressive the way you see the stress. just great!! i also agree with you that good diet is extremely important. great post by you. thank you.
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Thanks guys.
Not strange at all. I get the impression that you're at a more advanced stage of this than myself - probably due to your deeper previous exposure -
Perhaps. I was doing a cooked Paleo diet for years before trying RPD. I think that may also be why my transition didn't involve "detox"-type symptoms.
but can relate to the wonder of life itself becoming a meditation. ...
I thought of another way of describing it. On my better days it's like meditation has become me instead of me meditating.
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I thought of another way of describing it. On my better days it's like meditation has become me instead of me meditating.
Isn't it beautiful? For a hearty part of the last fifteen or more years that I was vegan, I got to a point where it was so hard to meditate. Of course when I water fasted for a few days or more it came back for months or a year or so. Me too, eating mostly (R)AF, mostly fat (raw), there's such a clear calm, no need to try as it's so easy for months at a time. I haven't gone fully (R)AF yet though. I assume if I do, it will be more stable and better.
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The best thing about paleo is your teeth. You never get any build up on it. You don't get that sour taste in your mouth or have plaque building up like you do when you're eating carbs. Teeth are super white. I don't think brushing is even required if you're eating the correct diet.