Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: goodsamaritan on October 13, 2009, 07:25:12 am
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When you think about it, and I did my vegetarian days some time ago, vegetarianism (shunning of meat) is really more like STARCHITARIANism.
People load up with cooked starches, starches humans are not designed for: rice, corn, wheat, etc. etc.
Listen to Dr. Moo Twahz and the host Patrick Timpone make fun of that fact.
http://www.oneradionetwork.com/health_-_podcasts/diet_and_nutrition/dr._moo-twahz_-_ancient_solutions_for_the_modern_world_-_october_8th_200910081323/
So today's vegetarians are actually starchitarians.
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I'm a meatatarian. ;)
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one of my friends is a vegetarian. She pretty much lives off these cheap microwavable bean burritos. It's funny cause she has a bunch of reptiles. So when you open her freezer it's half frozen mice & half been burritos.
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I don't see it that way. When I went vegan and then raw vegan, fruit and veg were the mainstays of the diet. Cooked starches and highly processed foods were only for a fringe group who liked artificial meat-substitutes and the like.
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I don't know what the proportions are, but I suspect that the vegetarians who do best focus more on the foods Tyler ate--low-sugar fruits and green veggies--whereas the ones who do worst probably eat more grains, soy milk, frozen veggie dinners and burritos, etc. Since the data overall seem pretty good from what Tyler gave us, I suspect that more vegitarians go heavy on the green veggies than the starches.
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I don't see it that way. When I went vegan and then raw vegan, fruit and veg were the mainstays of the diet. Cooked starches and highly processed foods were only for a fringe group who liked artificial meat-substitutes and the like.
There's way more processed food vegetarians than healthy, prepare your own food vegetarians. Just like with SAD, way more processed food eaters than home cookers. Every vegetarian I've ever known except for myself went in heavily for soy stuff, like soy milk and fake meats. The only healthy vegetarian meals I remember seeing people make were made by non-vegetarians that just wanted to try it. For example my Aunt took a vegetarian cooking class but has never been vegetarian.
Of course when it comes to raw vegetarians, that's another story, those people are generally concerned with health and eat mostly fruits, veggies and nuts/seeds.
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Come to think of it I did have a nutritionist (who I suspect was vegetarian), who recommended all kinds of soy crap. Yuck--it some of the nastiest stuff I've ever eaten. I suspect Tyler was referring more to the raw vegans.
Nearly any change from the SAD is an improvement, so I wouldn't be surprised if a significant number of vegetarians/vegans do better than the SAD eaters, especially if they take supplements or compromise and eat fish or eggs or cheat at times. Burlington, VT is the healthiest city in the US and we have lots of vegheads here. I don't mind them too much because I think about how they keep the price of my meats down and around here they tend to buy less of the processed stuff and be environmentally aware, so they're probably doing a bit less damage to the planet than the SAD eaters. Not that I'd recommend vegetarianism or raw vegan to anyone. It was definitely not for me.
GS's basic point seems pretty on target--a lot of vegetarians probably are starchitarians, because grains, legumes and tubers get lumped in with fruits and veggies. It's the same problem with the way dairy gets lumped in with meats.
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Here is the vegetarian food pyramid that shows starches as their primary food.
http://www.oldwayspt.org/vegetarian_pyramid.html
Breads, Pasta & Grains
Oats, Wheat, Rice, Buckwheat, Flax, Bulgur, Quinoa, Amaranth, Seitan, Millet, Barley, Whole Grain Bread, Rye, Pita, Tortilla, Rice Cakes, Couscous, Noodles, Kasha, Pasta, Corn
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Here is the vegetarian food pyramid that shows starches as their primary food.
http://www.oldwayspt.org/vegetarian_pyramid.html
Breads, Pasta & Grains
Oats, Wheat, Rice, Buckwheat, Flax, Bulgur, Quinoa, Amaranth, Seitan, Millet, Barley, Whole Grain Bread, Rye, Pita, Tortilla, Rice Cakes, Couscous, Noodles, Kasha, Pasta, Corn
It's interesting that that one allows dairy and eggs, so it's using the don't-directly-kill animals criterion rather than the plants-are-healthier criterion.
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There's way more processed food vegetarians than healthy, prepare your own food vegetarians. Just like with SAD, way more processed food eaters than home cookers. Every vegetarian I've ever known except for myself went in heavily for soy stuff, like soy milk and fake meats. The only healthy vegetarian meals I remember seeing people make were made by non-vegetarians that just wanted to try it. For example my Aunt took a vegetarian cooking class but has never been vegetarian.
Of course when it comes to raw vegetarians, that's another story, those people are generally concerned with health and eat mostly fruits, veggies and nuts/seeds.
Well, when I first started looking into the whole vegetarian diet movement, I was really looking for diets free of all animal products as cooked animal food was causing me so much ill-health. So, I was really more interested in, first, cooked vegan, and then, eventually, raw vegan. And the books I bought on the subject were far more concerned with fruit- and veg-consumption than anything else.
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"When you think about it, and I did my vegetarian days some time ago, vegetarianism (shunning of meat) is really more like STARCHITARIANism."
Some 'vegetarians' also customarily consume dairy, candy, grains, seeds, nuts, etc... None of these are vegetables but fruit would be the exception. I think most vegetarians allow themselves that option..
"People load up with cooked starches"
And cow milk and wine...
"starches humans are not designed for: rice, corn, wheat, etc. etc."
While ancestors resorted to meat before rice, both are acidifying and mucous-forming, with long transit and hard stools in the case of lean meat. Both stretch the lumen. Seeds aren't digested much easier either so it seems humans are not granivores.
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"starches humans are not designed for: rice, corn, wheat, etc. etc."
While ancestors resorted to meat before rice, both are acidifying and mucous-forming, with long transit and hard stools in the case of lean meat. Both stretch the lumen. Seeds aren't digested much easier either so it seems humans are not granivores.
For rice i don't know but for raw meat you're quite mistaken. At least it's completely at odds with my 11 years experience as well as other RPD i know of.
As to the granivorism, substantial amounts of grains can't be digested properly by humans, neither raw nor cooked. Same for herbivores like buffalos, cows or goats.
Only various birds or rodents have developed the appropriate adaptations to cope with the powerful lectins grasses or legumes have developed to protect their seeds not actually from being eated but from their content to be digested
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"starches humans are not designed for: rice, corn, wheat, etc. etc."
While ancestors resorted to meat before rice, both are acidifying and mucous-forming, with long transit and hard stools in the case of lean meat. Both stretch the lumen. Seeds aren't digested much easier either so it seems humans are not granivores.
For rice i don't know but for raw meat you're quite mistaken. At least it's completely at odds with my 11 years experience as well as other RPD i know of."
So you agree rice is acidifying and has mucopolysacharides but you're saying meat is not acidifying and is not a source of mucoproteins in connective tissues, blood, etc? Or are you claiming that lean meat does not increase transit time in contrast to rice?
"substantial amounts of grains can't be digested properly by humans"
Grains, seeds and nuts in any amounts are digested similarly to meat in regard to leaving acidic ash from the higher ratios of acidic elements and requiring higher HCL to process the high protein concentration.
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I am and will continue to closely monitor my new son's eye colour. They were a fantastic clear blue when he was born. He's now almost 4 months old and I have sadly noticed a light brown is forming around the pupil.
Nothing to be sad about, it is natural. Melanin is forming to protect eyes and skin and he is genetically programmed to manifest brown color by 12 months of age.
"He is solely breast fed"
The best diet for humans.
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"starches humans are not designed for: rice, corn, wheat, etc. etc."
While ancestors resorted to meat before rice, both are acidifying and mucous-forming, with long transit and hard stools in the case of lean meat. Both stretch the lumen. Seeds aren't digested much easier either so it seems humans are not granivores.
For rice i don't know but for raw meat you're quite mistaken. At least it's completely at odds with my 11 years experience as well as other RPD i know of."
So you agree rice is acidifying and has mucopolysacharides but you're saying meat is not acidifying and is not a source of mucoproteins in connective tissues, blood, etc? Or are you claiming that lean meat does not increase transit time in contrast to rice?
"substantial amounts of grains can't be digested properly by humans"
Grains, seeds and nuts in any amounts are digested similarly to meat in regard to leaving acidic ash from the higher ratios of acidic elements and requiring higher HCL to process the high protein concentration.
Yes, lean raw meat doesn't increase the transit time in my case (omnivore). For rice as i told you i don't know i don't eat rice.
As to the acididification issue my urine is at 7-7.5 even if i eat only meat or food of animal origin for a few days. Apparently when the food is raw we don't have to worry about acidic overload as is usual with cooked neolithic foods.
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Isn't your stomach equipped to handle acid? What's so bad about meat making your body more acidic & mucous at the same time? Wouldn't that just balance each other out?
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Isn't your stomach equipped to handle acid? What's so bad about meat making your body more acidic & mucous at the same time? Wouldn't that just balance each other out?
All food goes through acidic stomach to kill germs initially. Afterward a fermenting intestine, duodenum & colon allow for more nutrient absorption and bacterial flora to thrive. Acidic elements in meat/grains/dairy such as Fe, Cu, P, S, Zn, etc leave acidic residues in contrast to the more alkaline residues.
It isn't just seeds, grains, nuts, meat and dairy that are acidifying. Foods without fiber have longer transit time. Fatty meat in contrast to lean meat, promotes transit though.
I did find some mention that less HCl is produced with raw meat as opposed to cooked meat.
The British Journal of Nutrition. Sep 2008. Vol. 100, Iss. 3; pg. 615.
Acid-base homeostasis is critical to health; examples of the negative health effects of increases in acid loading or acidosis include growth retardation of babies, decline in sports performance and increased atrophy and loss of muscle mass . There is increasing evidence to suggest that even small disturbances in acid-base homeostasis have deleterious effects on bone remodelling in the animal/cellular model, and may be a risk factor for osteoporosis especially given that a high dietary acid load may have a negative effect on bone health by increasing Ca excretion and bone resorption. In addition, dietary acid loading can have detrimental health outcomes through an increased urinary N loss and nephrolithiasis. Currently, there is a general consensus that diet can undoubtedly affect acid-base balance and that an individual's net acid load can be specifically modified by dietary intervention.
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Have you tried raw meat? You need HCl to digest vegetables, did you know? I didn't have enough HCl for that. Fiber binds my intestines somehow. For intestines to work magnesium can help, but what works better is raw fat.
About twenty-five years ago, still veg, it looked like I was getting osteoporosis. Young I know, but I danced, etc. About four years ago I started eating (raw) meat. As a result my jaw got broader, my back got broader, I got taller, may waist and tummy got slimmer and my colon started working for the first time in nine years.
All food goes through acidic stomach to kill germs initially. Afterward a fermenting intestine, duodenum & colon allow for more nutrient absorption and bacterial flora to thrive. Acidic elements in meat/grains/dairy such as Fe, Cu, P, S, Zn, etc leave acidic residues in contrast to the more alkaline residues.
It isn't just seeds, grains, nuts, meat and dairy that are acidifying. Foods without fiber have longer transit time. Fatty meat in contrast to lean meat, promotes transit though.
I did find some mention that less HCl is produced with raw meat as opposed to cooked meat.
The British Journal of Nutrition. Sep 2008. Vol. 100, Iss. 3; pg. 615.
Acid-base homeostasis is critical to health; examples of the negative health effects of increases in acid loading or acidosis include growth retardation of babies, decline in sports performance and increased atrophy and loss of muscle mass . There is increasing evidence to suggest that even small disturbances in acid-base homeostasis have deleterious effects on bone remodelling in the animal/cellular model, and may be a risk factor for osteoporosis especially given that a high dietary acid load may have a negative effect on bone health by increasing Ca excretion and bone resorption. In addition, dietary acid loading can have detrimental health outcomes through an increased urinary N loss and nephrolithiasis. Currently, there is a general consensus that diet can undoubtedly affect acid-base balance and that an individual's net acid load can be specifically modified by dietary intervention.
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"starches humans are not designed for: rice, corn, wheat, etc. etc."
While ancestors resorted to meat before rice, both are acidifying and mucous-forming, with long transit and hard stools in the case of lean meat. Both stretch the lumen. Seeds aren't digested much easier either so it seems humans are not granivores.
For rice i don't know but for raw meat you're quite mistaken. At least it's completely at odds with my 11 years experience as well as other RPD i know of."
So you agree rice is acidifying and has mucopolysacharides but you're saying meat is not acidifying and is not a source of mucoproteins in connective tissues, blood, etc? Or are you claiming that lean meat does not increase transit time in contrast to rice?
"substantial amounts of grains can't be digested properly by humans"
Grains, seeds and nuts in any amounts are digested similarly to meat in regard to leaving acidic ash from the higher ratios of acidic elements and requiring higher HCL to process the high protein concentration.
In my experience, raw meat is NOT mucus forming.
raw paleo diet is a MUCUS FREE DIET.
Moreless of Curezone, the acid / alkaline balance expert says that raw organic / wild meats are alkalizing.
Rice in combination with cooked meat is very hard to digest. It is the foolish Filipino method of feeling full when he is actually experiencing difficulty in digestion.
I've put my children on paleo diet, cooked and raw meat and have successfully kicked out my 8 year old boy's rice addiction. I'm still working on the 2 younger kids.
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The British Journal of Nutrition. Sep 2008. Vol. 100, Iss. 3; pg. 615.
Ha, you know in my opinion none of these Journals really know what they are talking about. Their conclusions are pure speculations based on flawed logic. The studies they refer to are very questionable and can't be verified by independent source. It appears to be logical on the surface but as soon as you lift the crust it is all rotten inside.
There are so many studies ans surveys out there that contradict each other and can't be easily verified/confirmed to the point that they are simply meaningless.
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Have you tried raw meat?
Yes. I have consumed some animals while the animals were still moving. I opted for rare or raw when I did consume the animals. I consumed a high protein diet.
You need HCl to digest vegetables, did you know?
All food goes through acidic stomach to kill germs initially.
But different food classes elicit different HCl concentrations. The more difficult to digest require more concentrated HCl.
"About twenty-five years ago, still veg, it looked like I was getting osteoporosis."
Consuming dairy? Grains? Nuts? Seeds? If so, that is not surprising. My wrist inflammation diminished gradually when I replaced rare/raw fish with alkalizing foods. I still consumed some brown rice and flax seed pastas but I naturally experienced some inflammation to varying degrees until I eliminated the grains (in accordance with what one would expect from the scientific literature on the topic).
"I started eating (raw) meat."
At the expense of the the other more acidifying foods? Cooked food is more difficult to digest and more acidifying in general.
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In my experience, raw meat is NOT mucus forming."
Unless your experience includes an independent variable (alkalizing diet that excludes not only the meat in question but the nuts, seeds, grains, candy, dairy, etc) it is not even a fallacy of positive instances yet. To gain understanding of an exclusionary diet requires isolating variables. Cooking anything is going to degrade digestion and cause more mucus production, raw, unprocessed, wild game may actually have higher concentrations of acidic elements ie heme Fe, Cu, S, P, Zn, etc. (In contrast) What were your symptoms of your acidic diet before switching to a Paleo diet?
"raw paleo diet is a MUCUS FREE DIET."
I'm still looking for credible, scientific evidence for this. So far, I've found claims that it is less mucus-forming than cooked meat. If you have any scientific references I'd appreciate it.
"Rice in combination with cooked meat is very hard to digest."
Of course.
" It is the foolish Filipino method of feeling full when he is actually experiencing difficulty in digestion."
That's virtually every culture, to varying degrees.
"successfully kicked out my 8 year old boy's rice addiction."
Understandable.
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raw paleo diet is a mucus free diet
the only credible evidence I need is raw paleo diet is mucus free for myself and all my children.
I do not need any $$$ "studies" to tell me this.
Self experimentation rocks.
This is why we share experiences in this forum.
Try raw paleo diet for yourself, try raw organic meat yourself and you will know.
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I do not need any $$$ "studies" to tell me this.
Self experimentation rocks.
I agree. Although I'm still rather new(~6months) & not 100% RAF. The only times I experience any mucous build up was when I ate raw meat for 1.5weeks, then ate all cooked meat the week after. I think it has to do more with the extreme switch in meat.
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raw paleo diet is a mucus free diet
the only credible evidence I need is raw paleo diet is mucus free for myself and all my children.
By 'mucus free' are you claiming you and children don't get sick or have allergy symptoms?
I do not need any $$$ "studies" to tell me this.
???
"Self experimentation rocks."
I agree, which is why I asked if you had experience with a raw alkaline diet to contrast with the diet you now practice. I am asking for your experimenting experience in lieu of the absence of scientific studies supporting your claim that raw meat is not acidifying or mucus-forming for humans.
For instance, If a dieter is interested in healthy/natural diets yet experiences any sinusitis, hayfever, sinus infections, pleuria, colds or flues while on any particularly acidifying diet, I would ask him or her to contrast the frequency of such maladies before and after long term experimentation on an alkaline diet experiment/experience since mucus is formed as a natural reaction to undigested food particles for protection against putrefaction/rotting inside the stomach, mucus stores build up over long-term, remaining reservoirs for bacteria, viruses, etc.
"This is why we share experiences in this forum."
Exactly. Please elaborate.
"Try raw paleo diet for yourself"
I sort of did but it was rare meat and raw meat but I didn't do the long term totally raw, which is why I'm asking for any scientifically credible references for the claim that raw meat is not mucus-forming. Personal accounts with experience are also persuasive if details are shared.
'try raw organic meat yourself and you will know."
I'm having trouble believing raw meat is less mucus forming than raw fruit for instance, as I'm aware that fruit is mucus cleansing from experience and from the scientific literature on the topic. I'm asking for any data or personal accounts otherwise.
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Ah well, you are talking to someone who has done his diet rounds.
And most long time raw paleo people have done their diet rounds and finally landed here.
I've done vegetarianism. (just as bad as SAD)
I've done raw vegan. (mucus free, but malnourishing)
I've done raw fruitarian. (mucus free, but malnourishing)
The mucus free diets are:
raw vegan, raw fruitarian, raw paleo diet.
I've also been super sick before. See www.eczemacure.info
This is why I'm here for the awesome curative powers of raw paleo diet.
And what do you know, in my experience, everything aajonus wrote in his books except for the raw dairy and the green juices works for me and my kids.
I met an old lady friend who knew us when we were doing our vegetarian diet times... she exclaimed, "Wow! You and your wife look so good! You look like college students! You must be sticking to the vegetarian diet, good for you!"
I laughed with her and exclaimed that me and my wife's secret is lots and lots of raw animal meat and raw animal fat!
The concept of everything has to be alkalizing is wrong that's why there has to be an acid / alkaline balance. Raw Paleo Diet is a balanced diet. Vary it according to your needs at that time in your life.
Mucus formation may also be caused by your environment: laundry, home ventilation, dust, smoke, city pollution, home pollution, car pollution, office pollution.
In my persona as a healer, the quick solution for: sinusitis, hayfever, sinus infections, pleuria, colds is cayenne.
- I have cayenne tincture handy at home all the time.
- We also have Quantum Minerals Plus drops - energized volcanic minerals.
- a good colon cleanser clears your guts of old debris, saves people from pneumonia
I keep it handy for family members who are not on raw paleo diet because they need aids like these.
If you need info on the above 3 items, just ask and I will provide links.
I think it is healing that you are looking for, healing terrible diseases requires more than diet even if diet is the biggest deal there is.
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Details are:
on 2 months of raw vegan I was mucus free (but malnourished)
on 2 months of raw fruitarian still mucus free (but malnourished and cold)
the moment I add raw eggs and raw fish (wai diet), boom! Instant health. still mucus free
I added raw land animals, especially raw fatty beef, boom boom boom, still mucus free, even better health... no more hypoglycemic symptoms when I switched to high raw fat diet low carb diet.
There are times you will want mucus formation in your intestines.
There were some instances I ate bad (non paleo) food and it caused my lower intestines to be inflamed.
I could tap my butt hole and the inflamed pain would radiate inside my intestines.
I resorted to mucus forming fatty cooked pork. And it worked.
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I agree, which is why I asked if you had experience with a raw alkaline diet to contrast with the diet you now practice. I am asking for your experimenting experience in lieu of the absence of scientific studies supporting your claim that raw meat is not acidifying or mucus-forming for humans.
I have been close to thirty years completely vegan including clothes, shoes and bed linens, etc. Most of that time it was only whole vegan foods. Much of that time it was raw vegan. I include air there (no heating, fans or air conditioning), water (pipe temp water no heater), no ice cubes, etc. I have been raw fruitarian. I have long term water fasted. I have dry fasted. I have done most of the other programs too when it comes to veg. How old are you? What is your diet?
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I noticed that my throat produced much less mucus than before when I switched to raw. The result was that I found I could no longer easily swallow dry pastry without gulping some mineral water afterwards.
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Details are:
on 2 months of raw vegan I was mucus free (but malnourished)
on 2 months of raw fruitarian still mucus free (but malnourished and cold)
To solve the problem of being 'malnourished', (which many omnivarians and fruitarians are) obtain fresh fruit from rich soil. Even cow feed in US is tradationally supplemented w/cobalt. The soil has been turned repeatedly and doused w/oil. Wild chimp populations do not have widespread nutritional deficiencies and have far higher nutrient levels in their diets, but most vegans and omnivarians acquire nutrient deficiencies from depleted topsoil not from fresh, varied fruit.
"Deficiency diseases have not been identified for any wild primate population (Kerr 1972, Wolf 1972). Known cases of nutritional diseases among primates are laboratory-induced features of captive animals or culturally induced human diseases. BioScience, Volume 28, Pages 761-766, 1978"
“Chimps live largely on fruits and leaves and their intake of nutrients such as Vitamin C is many times that of most of us. They eat a little meat and hunt monkeys on occasion but they are not well adapted to meat eating; a small amount of saturated fat sends their cholesterol levels very high” (Mestel 2002; A20).
“There is no evidence that meat is needed for normal pregnancy or nursing” (Goodall, 1986, Stanford 1998)
Commercial fruit is traditionally picked before ripe and loses more nutrients in transit. So far you've established that commercial unripe yet old fruit is naturally mucous-cleansing but that commercial fruit is traditionally low in nutrients. This is nothing new. It helps to obtain the food fresh as long as the soil is rich.
Being 'cold' is not surprising since humans are great apes from the tropics, where much leaner relatives still reside... No morphological overhaul prevented humans from withstanding colder temps just because human explorer ancestors decided to radiate far from ecological niche of hominadea. To solve the temperature problem, wear some clothes, use blankets and/or return to warmer climate (human ecological niche).
"no more hypoglycemic symptoms"
There is no mechanism by which raw, whole fruit causes hypoglycemia. Were you consuming high fructose corn syrup? Or taking the fiber off, juicing and gulping? Or did you impare insulin response before you incorporated low quality fruit into your diet?
CONCLUSIONS/INTERPRETATION: Diabetic children and adolescents had a high intake of energy from saturated fat and low intake of fibre, fruits and vegetables, which could increase the risk of development of atherosclerosis. This study supports the idea that nutritional guidance in the treatment of children and adolescents with type 1 diabetes should be more focused, especially with regard to intake of fibre, fruits and vegetables and to quality and quantity of fat intake.
Diabetologia. 2007 Feb;50(2):307-16.
"There are times you will want mucus formation in your intestines."
And at those times my body will manufacture just the amount of mucus needed to excrete toxins. Dietary mucus is unnecessary and only risks more diseases.
"I resorted to mucus forming fatty cooked pork."
There is no nutritional reason for health-conscious humans to 'resort to mucus-forming [any food]' That's an either-or-fallacy.
C
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Commercial fruit is traditionally picked before ripe and loses more nutrients in transit. So far you've established that commercial unripe yet old fruit is naturally mucous-cleansing but that commercial fruit is traditionally low in nutrients. This is nothing new. It helps to obtain the food fresh as long as the soil is rich.
Being 'cold' is not surprising since humans are great apes from the tropics, where much leaner relatives still reside... No morphological overhaul prevented humans from withstanding colder temps just because human explorer ancestors decided to radiate far from ecological niche of hominadea. To solve the temperature problem, wear some clothes, use blankets and/or return to warmer climate (human ecological niche).
There is no mechanism by which raw, whole fruit causes hypoglycemia. Were you consuming high fructose corn syrup? Or taking the fiber off, juicing and gulping? Or did you impare insulin response before you incorporated low quality fruit into your diet?
C
C, GS lives in the tropics. I doubt his fruit is low quality like wherever you're from. I doubt he replaced his fruit with HFCS or anything like that. Are you trying to turn us fruitarian? There are plenty of fruitarian forums. Many of us here only eat animal meat, no fruit, nothing else. I myself have eaten only fruit several times, at times of which were in the tropics with only wild crafted fruit that readily fell off the trees each day on their own, yes I saw it every day, for near a year at a time.
Inuits are human. They lived quite a long time on the permafrost. I myself have slept in the snow, no blanket nor sheet nor pillow. If you're trying to be paleo, do you really believe they had bedding like you use today?
By the way, when I lived in the tropics, and most of my life I was extremely lean. At the end of my Veganism did I gain weight. What a way to derail a thread.
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H. Fructos, you have got to be dense or a total fruitarian vegan robot. Or worse, a troll.
I live in the Philippines and we have organic / wild by default fruit with nutritious volcanic soil.
Fruits alone cannot sustain me.
Just as no tribe is purely fruitarian or vegan.
As for the pain that I felt when my intestines were inflamed. That was very real.
As for the remedy of the cooked pork. That was very real.
Are you going to ask and listen to personal testimonials and accept these at face value?
So raw meat + raw fruit really works for me and I feel great and look great, better than anything in my entire life, I am finally disease free, health problem free of everything. What a relief. You should take that at face value.
Are you going to keep on ranting against meat eating when it is clear from the experience of people that WE NEED MEAT to survive? to reproduce? to get well from diseases?
Or are you just posting here to lambast us that we are just a bunch of liars with nothing to do better than spend our time lying to one another?
I highly suggest you go on your merry vegan / fruitarian way and shun ALL ANIMAL FOOD.
When you eventually hit the wall of the vegan / fruitarian malnutrition, you can come back to the raw paleo forum and ask for our help.
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H. Fructos, you have got to be dense or a total fruitarian vegan robot. Or worse, a troll."
Ad hominems duly noted. I understand your frustration. You've yo-yoed quite a bit with popular diets. I asked for some scientifically credible support or reason for consuming dietary-induced, mucus-forming foods...
"I live in the Philippines and we have organic / wild by default fruit with nutritious volcanic soil."
Then why did you say you were 'malnourished'? If you're processing the fruit and not including ~110+ species of various fruits + other plants, you may be limiting your variety compared to other hominoids. Most humans consume about half the variety of plants as chimps.
"Fruits alone cannot sustain me."
I respect your principles. I was just seeing if you had experience with a varied fruit diet from good quality soil and if you were able to identify the 'malnourishment'.
Human tribes have widespread nutrient deficiencies, unlike closest relatives.
"Just as no tribe is purely fruitarian or vegan."
No tribe is free from rampant degenerative/acquired diseases either.
As for the pain that I felt when my intestines were inflamed. That was very real.
As for the remedy of the cooked pork. That was very real."
I just have trouble believing cooked pig has medicinal value to remedy acidosis or excess mucus stores. So far the available evidence is that cooked meat of all types degrades the digestive system. I realize cooking pigs is popular, I'm just inquiring about potential health issues.
Are you going to ask and listen to personal testimonials"
Yes. Did you have a diagnosis??What nutrient in fruit caused the problems for you??
"keep on ranting against meat "
You're upset and overly defensive.I'm trying to be open minded. What was the mechanism by which cooked pig cures inflammed intestines?
"WE NEED MEAT"
Why?
"to reproduce?"
It is the position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases…Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence.
"Ihighly suggest you go on your merry vegan / fruitarian way and shun ALL ANIMAL FOOD. "
I'm not vegan or fruitarian. Is this how you enlist new members??
When you eventually hit the wall of the vegan / fruitarian malnutrition,"What malnutrition???
"you can come back and ask for our help"
'us'?How many people are on your account? I thought I was asking for your testimony as the head of the household, feeding children based on experience. You seem resistent to share relevant information but anxious to repeat that you've been cured...
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Yes. Did you have a diagnosis??What nutrient in fruit caused the problems for you??
You're upset and overly defensive.I'm trying to be open minded. What was the mechanism by which cooked pig cures inflammed intestines?
This is a raw forum, about vegetarians actually being starchatarians, Mr/Ms Derailer. Are you a medical establishment doctor that you demand a real diagnosis? Fruit is far from ideal in some situations. You would need many years on Earth to discover this, not by eating wrong but by living through life etc. I can imagine cooking pasture raised pig bones for days and the proline and other nutrients helping heal intestines. You've never heard of this? You would be "defensive" too if someone came into your forum and didn't even know how to use quoting html.
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I thought I was asking for your testimony as the head of the household, feeding children based on experience. You seem resistent to share relevant information but anxious to repeat that you've been cured...
What information are you looking for exactly? He already post how he cured himself. Following a raw fatty meats & some fruit diet. He even posted a link( www.eczemacure.info (http://www.eczemacure.info)). What else do you want from him? His blood results & EKG?
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H. Fructos, you have got to be dense or a total fruitarian vegan robot. Or worse, a troll."
Ad hominems duly noted. I understand your frustration. You've yo-yoed quite a bit with popular diets. I asked for some scientifically credible support or reason for consuming dietary-induced, mucus-forming foods...
"I live in the Philippines and we have organic / wild by default fruit with nutritious volcanic soil."
Then why did you say you were 'malnourished'? If you're processing the fruit and not including ~110+ species of various fruits + other plants, you may be limiting your variety compared to other hominoids. Most humans consume about half the variety of plants as chimps.
"Fruits alone cannot sustain me."
I respect your principles. I was just seeing if you had experience with a varied fruit diet from good quality soil and if you were able to identify the 'malnourishment'.
Human tribes have widespread nutrient deficiencies, unlike closest relatives.
"Just as no tribe is purely fruitarian or vegan."
No tribe is free from rampant degenerative/acquired diseases either.
As for the pain that I felt when my intestines were inflamed. That was very real.
As for the remedy of the cooked pork. That was very real."
I just have trouble believing cooked pig has medicinal value to remedy acidosis or excess mucus stores. So far the available evidence is that cooked meat of all types degrades the digestive system. I realize cooking pigs is popular, I'm just inquiring about potential health issues.
Are you going to ask and listen to personal testimonials"
Yes. Did you have a diagnosis??What nutrient in fruit caused the problems for you??
"keep on ranting against meat "
You're upset and overly defensive.I'm trying to be open minded. What was the mechanism by which cooked pig cures inflammed intestines?
"WE NEED MEAT"
Why?
"to reproduce?"
It is the position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases…Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence.
"Ihighly suggest you go on your merry vegan / fruitarian way and shun ALL ANIMAL FOOD. "
I'm not vegan or fruitarian. Is this how you enlist new members??
When you eventually hit the wall of the vegan / fruitarian malnutrition,"What malnutrition???
"you can come back and ask for our help"
'us'?How many people are on your account? I thought I was asking for your testimony as the head of the household, feeding children based on experience. You seem resistent to share relevant information but anxious to repeat that you've been cured...
This is a sad example of a trying hard to look like a dimwit troll of a forum poster.
(Making it hard for us to read your comments by feigned dimwit quoting!)
I speak and understand as perfect English as you do.
I have already answered your grade 1 questions.
You refuse to recognize my answers.
You act as if I did not answer your questions.
You EVEN LIE STRAIGHT FACED THAT I RESIST TO SHARE RELEVANT INFORMATION ?
You LIE and tell me I am DEFENSIVE ?
When I answered each and every question POINT BLANK!!!
You are a straight FACED LIER SIR!
I and all who read your posts unmask you as A LIER.
THE SINISTER LIER who LIES BY FEIGNING I OMITTED ANSWERING YOUR QUESTIONS.
Stop wasting our TIME.
I'm a long time pre-internet forum administrator and I know your kind.
And no, I have not censored anything you typed.
It remains as evidence of the kind of troll you are.
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Back on topic...
When you think about it, and I did my vegetarian days some time ago, vegetarianism (shunning of meat) is really more like STARCHITARIANism.
People load up with cooked starches, starches humans are not designed for: rice, corn, wheat, etc. etc.
Listen to Dr. Moo Twahz and the host Patrick Timpone make fun of that fact.
http://www.oneradionetwork.com/health_-_podcasts/diet_and_nutrition/dr._moo-twahz_-_ancient_solutions_for_the_modern_world_-_october_8th_200910081323/
So today's vegetarians are actually starchitarians.
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It is the position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases…Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence.
ha, first of all, i don't think following the advice of government controlled dietitians is a good idea. they don't want the masses to be healthy. that wouldn't be very good for business. no one to buy pills.
also, i'll venture to say that you are the one not being open minded. obviously, GS has been open to ANY other diet. he has found what works for him and, coincidentally, hundreds of us on this forum. why do you have the right to say he's wrong?
also also, why are you on this forum?
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Listen to Dr. Moo Twahz and the host Patrick Timpone make fun of that fact.
http://www.oneradionetwork.com/health_-_podcasts/diet_and_nutrition/dr._moo-twahz_-_ancient_solutions_for_the_modern_world_-_october_8th_200910081323/
So today's vegetarians are actually starchitarians.
Actually, I know one who only eats butter, honey and fruit, nothing else to eat, no starchy drinks, no bananas no starch, no grain fed food. That isn't called vegetarianism though, is it? Lactarian?
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I saw this photo of Chelsea Clinton in the news today ...
http://www.reuters.com/news/pictures/articleslideshow?articleId=USTRE5AT5JI20091130&channelName=vcCandidateFeed1#a=1
...and said to myself, "Dang! She's gettin' scrawny, her neck is poorly aligned [according to Esther Gokhale's advice] and her hair is limp. I wonder if she's vegetarian?" I googled her and sure enough she's been vegetarian since age 11 or so, poor gal.
She started early enough that I would not be surprised if she develops some sort of chronic disorder before she reaches 50, unfortunately.
Her story is a textbook example (pardon the pun) of how children are being brainwashed into vegetarianism and veganism these days:
<<Chelsea Clinton went to math camp, honey and yogurt are among her favorite foods, and she was a longtime vegetarian, a fact that left her mother worried about her protein intake.
After Laura Lawler, 24, of Manchester, mentioned that she is a vegan, Chelsea Clinton described returning home "when I was 11 and just declared that I was no longer eating red meat.
"At the time I liked to think that it was purely motivated by reactions to two articles I read in my life science class, one about the detrimental qualities of excessive amounts of red meat on your body and two, about the living conditions of cattle in slaughter houses," Chelsea Clinton said. "However, I think there was also some emergent rebelliousness."
"That's pretty much the way I remember it," Hillary Clinton chimed in. (http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080106/NEWS01/801060443/1217/NEWS98)>>
I hope those of you with children can keep them from being brainwashed by the powers that be.
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"That's pretty much the way I remember it," Hillary Clinton chimed in. (http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080106/NEWS01/801060443/1217/NEWS98)>>
I hope those of you with children can keep them from being brainwashed by the powers that be.
I wish my son's father was raw paleo. I'd love to see both of them chowing down on some venison.
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I ate mainly starches at cooked vegan. Unsweetened soy milk, beans and rice, Ezekiel sprouted bread etc.Peanut butter. Avoided salt unless it was sea salt.....
When I went raw vegan I did the six small meals a day and did sprouting of lentils and soaked nuts and wild rice. Ate fruit and veggies salads. And felt like crap on soaked grains and six small meals. I admit I could have felt better on raw vegan eating just nuts fruits and veggies.
Now, It seems I do best with raw meat and fat as my main food.