Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Hot Topics => Topic started by: raw on November 13, 2009, 02:06:47 pm
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:'( :'(hi, my 2 and half yrs old toddler is on raw meat diet. so far i cured his anemia by giving him one table spoon of blending raw chicken liver (WITHOUT ANY SEASONING) twice a week. now, he's growing up and he's almost out of my control. 1st, when i give him raw liver, his facial expression changes. it like he hates this. also i feed him blended beef muscles (WITH PLENTY OF RAW BUTTER) and he hates that too. HE LOVES CARROT JUICE, CELERY JUICE. now, what should i do?
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Give your toddler what he wants at this point in time.
Follow your child's instinct.
Carrots and celery are good vegetables.
Vegetables are part of raw paleo diet.
2 days ago I didn't feel like meat myself. I got myself some kimchi.
This lunch I had a lot of raw tuna.
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Give him raw fish or raw heart. He might enjoy them. Also, I agree with Good Samaritan. If the child is eating only raw foods, then his instincts about his food are going to be very, very good.
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1st, when i give him raw liver, his facial expression changes. it like he hates this. also i feed him blended beef muscles (WITH PLENTY OF RAW BUTTER) and he hates that too.
Are you eating around the same time as him? Do you prepare your own plate the same way. I'd love to hear more details. In doing so we may see more depth and balance of the picture. When my son was about four or five he saw people who were having reactions to new foods. Suddenly he didn't want them. Most children are sensitive to everything going on around them.
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:'( :'(hi, my 2 and half yrs old toddler is on raw meat diet. so far i cured his anemia by giving him one table spoon of blending raw chicken liver (WITHOUT ANY SEASONING) twice a week. now, he's growing up and he's almost out of my control. 1st, when i give him raw liver, his facial expression changes. it like he hates this. also i feed him blended beef muscles (WITH PLENTY OF RAW BUTTER) and he hates that too. HE LOVES CARROT JUICE, CELERY JUICE. now, what should i do?
Liver is a bad mistake for young children, as they have all the copper they need for years when they are born. Giving him liver is giving him too much copper, and anything in excess is a poison. This is why he hates it.
Why don't you try offering a selection of pure raw stuff and let him choose? His immune system is wiser than any dietary theory.
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I have the same regarding liver. And, I will throw in as I usually do regarding chicken anything,, unless their your chickens and they're on miles of green pasture, they are full of soy and corn and their bodies are out of balance in all sorts of ways, and hence their livers. Try gf beef liver if any thing. Thinly sliced or ground. I also like the part of eating the same food in front of them.
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Give him raw fish or raw heart. He might enjoy them. Also, I agree with Good Samaritan. If the child is eating only raw foods, then his instincts about his food are going to be very, very good.
i tried to give them, he doesn't like. only think he likes is fruits. he already has zinc deficiency. so i'm giving him zinc supplement. thanks
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Liver is a bad mistake for young children, as they have all the copper they need for years when they are born. Giving him liver is giving him too much copper, and anything in excess is a poison. This is why he hates it.
Why don't you try offering a selection of pure raw stuff and let him choose? His immune system is wiser than any dietary theory.
thank you so much for this important info. but when he was low in iron, the natural docs (dr. stanely bass) prescribed him raw organic live. and it did help. i don't believe any products from outside even the farmers. so i'm buying a home in a city where my back yard will have a little privacy and i will raise chickens there and if possible, then i'll raise two goats thanks.
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I have the same regarding liver. And, I will throw in as I usually do regarding chicken anything,, unless their your chickens and they're on miles of green pasture, they are full of soy and corn and their bodies are out of balance in all sorts of ways, and hence their livers. Try gf beef liver if any thing. Thinly sliced or ground. I also like the part of eating the same food in front of them.
dear van, thanks a lot man. it's been a while that we don't email to each other. you're absolutely right about the chickens. so i'm moving to new york and will try to raise my own chickens. thanks.
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i tried to give them, he doesn't like. only think he likes is fruits. he already has zinc deficiency. so i'm giving him zinc supplement. thanks
How did he develop zinc deficiency? Zinc deficiency has been strongly linked to consumption of plant carbs and my own experience validates that. My zinc deficiency only fully resolved when I adopted a raw carnivorous diet including plenty of raw red meats.
If he only likes fruits it sounds like he is carb-addicted, as many moderners are. I've seen this in countless children. Children also tend to misbehave and disobey more and get fussier about foods once they're addicted to plant carbs. Even carrot juice contains carbs. One cup of carrot juice has 21.9g of sugary-sweet carbs, which is why it's the most popular vegetable to juice (I used to man the juice bar at times at a health food/supplement store and nearly everyone wanted carrots in their juice because they were the sweetest veggie--they could have something sugary while telling themselves it was super-healthy too--and many of them were obese and/or diabetic). It isn't because it's the healthiest.
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How did he develop zinc deficiency? Zinc deficiency has been strongly linked to consumption of plant carbs and my own experience validates that. My zinc deficiency only fully resolved when I adopted a raw carnivorous diet including plenty of raw red meats.
If he only likes fruits it sounds like he is carb-addicted, as many moderners are. I've seen this in countless children. Children also tend to misbehave and disobey more and get fussier about foods once they're addicted to plant carbs. Even carrot juice contains carbs. One cup of carrot juice has 21.9g of sugary-sweet carbs, which is why it's the most popular vegetable to juice (I used to man the juice bar at times at a health food/supplement store and nearly everyone wanted carrots in their juice because they were the sweetest veggie--they could have something sugary while telling themselves it was super-healthy too--and many of them were obese and/or diabetic). It isn't because it's the healthiest.
after he was born i don't know about paleo diet and just being making him super healthy, i was giving him raw vegan food, which is planty of sweet fruits and some veggies and sprouts and nuts (he started eating this soil food when he was only 7 months old). after tried mostly fruits vegan diet, he developed severely iron related anemia, vit D, zinc deficiency... and so on. by that time absolutely no animal products i gave him. and than i went to dr. stanely bass (www.drbass.com), he recomended egg yolks, some chicken liver, clams, bee pollen... etc. he also suggested that, every single meal will follow by greens.
i do understand now that he is addicted with sugary foods. and i'm struggling every day for that. thanks for the very important suggestion.
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This is a growing child, he may need more carbs than adults. This is where parental instincts come in.
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... the natural docs (dr. stanely bass) prescribed him raw organic live. and it did help. .. my back yard will have a little privacy and i will raise chickens there and if possible, then i'll raise two goats thanks.
I have experience with Bass.
I read farming forums in addition to this. Recently I read that goats are social animals, and for their mental health, it's best to have at least four goats, as goats suffer otherwise.
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I have goats, 16 of them now, have had more. Four will be a lot of work. Two will be ok together. Goats also love attention from humans which can make up for the loss of herd size. You might like to start out with a mother and baby. The mother for milk now, the baby to breed in about a year and a half. The 'problem' with goats or cows, is keeping them in milk, which is done by breeding, and not keeping the babies.
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Children tend to like pemmican. That might be a compromise food that you could use to wean him from his sweet fruit/carb addiction. You could also try to wean him from excessive quantities of excessively sweet fruits by substituting lower glycemic fruits like berries, cherries and less-sweet varieties of apples rather than tropical fruits.
I don't recommend any sweet juices like carrot juice or fruit juices, which contribute to deficiencies like zinc and iron deficiency, spike the insulin, rot the teeth, etc. Most storebought fruit juices also have added sweeteners and flavorings (even natural flavoring is made from chemicals produced by breaking down processed fruits into their chemical components) and are Whole fruits and vegetables would probably be less of a problem than sweet juices, but even many of them are reportedly a problem for many people (especially starchy tubers, nightshades and sugary fruits). Water and mineral water seem to be the best and most-RPD beverages. You could start by diluting the sweet juices and try to wean him off them to water.
I have one set of 2 nephews who eat a meat-heavy conventional cooked Paleo diet and another set of 2 nephews who eat a high-carb cooked SAD. The Paleo nephews are the two most well behaved children I've ever seen in my life and they gladly eat a variety of foods and usually finish what is on their plates. My carb-addicted SAD nephews tend unfortunately toward whining, complaining, crying, misbehaving, disobeying, etc., have a host of health ailments and I think I've only seen them both finish what was on their plates/dishes once--and it was a chicken-stew sort of dish, as I recall (if only his mother would take that as a hint that meats are the way to go). Luckily, my SAD nephews get lots of exercise from plentiful athletic activities, which I think helps burn up a lot of those carbs and reduce their toxic effects.
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May not be the most well received advice, but try giving him sunny side up eggs. Re our previous egg conversation, the egg white protein is more useable, the yolks will remain raw (that's where all the nutrients are anyways), and I know very few kids who don't love eggs.
Is it absolutely necessary to blend the meat you give him? I love chuck steak, but turn it into ground beef and I hate it. Maybe you can find some tender meat - raw chicken breast, ribeye, or any type of fish - with a small serving of non-starchy fruits/veggies on the side. He may really like the taste of fat, see if he wants very fatty meat, or maybe he likes lean meat.
Try seasonings. Start simple, onions, garlic, maybe peppers, a little salt or pepper. If that doesn't work, move on to some of the other standard stuff. Better to have raw meat with some seasonings that no raw meat at all. Besides, while they may not be 'perfect' I don't really see them as harmful.
Also, do you warm it up? It may be that he prefers warm (or cold) meat.
If he wants juice, give him coconut water instead. It's pretty light on sugar, and nutrient dense. I would think much better than juiced veggies.
Don't take away his fruit, just try to work with him. Try lots of things, give him lots of options not only on what he's eating, but how it's prepared. I'm sure in a month or so, you'll find some raw animal products that he just loves to eat.
Oh yeah, almost any food tastes good when you're hungry. Working the hunger incentive just a little, may go a long way.
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sunny side up eggs
or soft boiled, I was thinking the same thing
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Children tend to like pemmican. That might be a compromise food that you could use to wean him from his sweet fruit/carb addiction. You could also try to wean him from excessive quantities of excessively sweet fruits by substituting lower glycemic fruits like berries, cherries and less-sweet varieties of apples rather than tropical fruits.
I don't recommend any sweet juices like carrot juice or fruit juices, which contribute to deficiencies like zinc and iron deficiency, spike the insulin, rot the teeth, etc. Most storebought fruit juices also have added sweeteners and flavorings (even natural flavoring is made from chemicals produced by breaking down processed fruits into their chemical components) and are Whole fruits and vegetables would probably be less of a problem than sweet juices, but even many of them are reportedly a problem for many people (especially starchy tubers, nightshades and sugary fruits). Water and mineral water seem to be the best and most-RPD beverages. You could start by diluting the sweet juices and try to wean him off them to water.
I have one set of 2 nephews who eat a meat-heavy conventional cooked Paleo diet and another set of 2 nephews who eat a high-carb cooked SAD. The Paleo nephews are the two most well behaved children I've ever seen in my life and they gladly eat a variety of foods and usually finish what is on their plates. My carb-addicted SAD nephews tend unfortunately toward whining, complaining, crying, misbehaving, disobeying, etc., have a host of health ailments and I think I've only seen them both finish what was on their plates/dishes once--and it was a chicken-stew sort of dish, as I recall (if only his mother would take that as a hint that meats are the way to go). Luckily, my SAD nephews get lots of exercise from plentiful athletic activities, which I think helps burn up a lot of those carbs and reduce their toxic effects.
Wow!! love the way you responded to this article. well, i need to put a journal to this site that how i take care of my son and how i feed him and also how i live.
i just don't remember a day that i prepare his food hour before and leave it to the refrigerator to feed him in my own time, i don't remember a day that i put bath him without wheatgrass water, homemade shampoo, hot oil massages, making the kefir or raw goat milk acidophiles everyday, growing and piking up wild dandelion, and other plants from backyard to prepare, growing different kinds of berry (including goji berries for him)... go on and going on the list...
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I have goats, 16 of them now, have had more. Four will be a lot of work. Two will be ok together. Goats also love attention from humans which can make up for the loss of herd size. You might like to start out with a mother and baby. The mother for milk now, the baby to breed in about a year and a half. The 'problem' with goats or cows, is keeping them in milk, which is done by breeding, and not keeping the babies.
very nice van. i wish i can visit your goat farm with my little one. i'm serious. let me know.
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This is a growing child, he may need more carbs than adults. This is where parental instincts come in.
i forget to mention that he likes raw egg yolks, and i gave him 3 of them for his breakfast. yesterday he was asking for me too much about cheese, but i don't know any reliable sources that can buy for him unsalted raw swiss chess. all my friends that are viewing this article, please help me with that. thanks.
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May not be the most well received advice, but try giving him sunny side up eggs. Re our previous egg conversation, the egg white protein is more useable, the yolks will remain raw (that's where all the nutrients are anyways), and I know very few kids who don't love eggs.
Is it absolutely necessary to blend the meat you give him? I love chuck steak, but turn it into ground beef and I hate it. Maybe you can find some tender meat - raw chicken breast, ribeye, or any type of fish - with a small serving of non-starchy fruits/veggies on the side. He may really like the taste of fat, see if he wants very fatty meat, or maybe he likes lean meat.
Try seasonings. Start simple, onions, garlic, maybe peppers, a little salt or pepper. If that doesn't work, move on to some of the other standard stuff. Better to have raw meat with some seasonings that no raw meat at all. Besides, while they may not be 'perfect' I don't really see them as harmful.
Also, do you warm it up? It may be that he prefers warm (or cold) meat.
If he wants juice, give him coconut water instead. It's pretty light on sugar, and nutrient dense. I would think much better than juiced veggies.
Don't take away his fruit, just try to work with him. Try lots of things, give him lots of options not only on what he's eating, but how it's prepared. I'm sure in a month or so, you'll find some raw animal products that he just loves to eat.
Oh yeah, almost any food tastes good when you're hungry. Working the hunger incentive just a little, may go a long way.
dear friend/ we see i wrote some comments and i'll definitely look that egg brand you mentioned. he loves egg yolks. he never tasted salt, any sugar in his life (ofcourse only sugary fruits), but i really like your idea very much and that's so helpful. it would be more helpful, if anyone of this paleo members can tell me how much muscle meat(that's the only easy one i can find from whole food, even though i prefer organ meats for him) and egg yolks...and other things i can give him for a day... thanks.
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If he likes raw egg yolks, adding that to the blended muscle meat might make that tastier for him. Basically steak tartar.
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it would be more helpful, if anyone of this paleo members can tell me how much muscle meat(that's the only easy one i can find from whole food, even though i prefer organ meats for him) and egg yolks...and other things i can give him for a day... thanks.
There can be such a thing as too much mothering, that is part of the reason why I sometimes write the name Mother with a capital letter. That loving power can be overwhelming, and stifle a growing sense of self.
Organ meats versus muscle meat sounds like a power struggle, like he is attempting assert his own sense of rightness. I hope you don't squash him.
Fom a study by Phinney:
"The studies noted herein
[13-15,20] demonstrate effective preservation of lean body mass and
physical performance when protein is in the range of 1.2 – 1.7 g/kg
reference body weight daily, provided in the context of adequate
minerals. Picking the mid-range value of 1.5 g/kg-d, for adults with
reference weights ranging from 60–80 kg, this translates into total
daily protein intakes 90 to 120 g/d. This number is also consistent
with the protein intake reported in the Bellevue study [9]. When
expressed in the context of total daily energy expenditures of 2000–
3000 kcal/d, about 15% of ones daily energy expenditure (or intake if
the diet is eucaloric) needs to be provided as protein."
So IIRC meat is three times the weight of protein, that would make about 3.6 to 5.1 grams of muscle meat per kilogram for a day. Plus animal fat, of course. IIRC small children don't need as much fat as adults, but someone else should confirm this.
If you can use the example of delfuego's children, pemmican is all they need and they flourish on it, even though the older one was started on something else.
The experience of members of this forum and others indicates that fat raw meat and water fits the basic requirement of a sound diet.
Hope this helps.
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Yes, and Ray Audette's son flourished on nothing but pemmican, water and diluted juice, but the sample size of children who have lived this way is very small so far, so there is probably still much to learn.
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If he likes raw egg yolks, adding that to the blended muscle meat might make that tastier for him. Basically steak tartar.
in this case, i don't need to add extra raw butter, right? i think this is a good idea. thanks buddy.
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Ray Audette's son flourished on nothing but pemmican, water and diluted juice, but the sample size of children who have lived this way is very small so far, so there is probably still much to learn.
When did he stop fluorishing on that? What does he eat now? Am I misunderstanding?
easy one i can find from whole food, even though i prefer organ meats
At the Whole Foods by me, early Thursday mornings the hearts, livers and kidneys of pasture grazed lamb is put on display, although not very obvious. Invariably by Friday afternoons there are no more. Fat trim is availble in the mornings until about 10 AM, and then they throw it into the garbage can
On the power struggle thing, we humans are smart, even as babies, especially when raw. We love to play, especially babies need to, they need that for growth, and we all need it for happiness. He may be playing with you about not eating what you like.
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When did he stop fluorishing on that? What does he eat now? Am I misunderstanding?
He didn't stop flourishing AFAIK. The last time Ray provided update, I think in 2007, he reported that his son Gray-Hawk was still eating a meat-based NeanderThin diet and was a gifted athlete with a genius-level IQ, demonstrating, as one would expect, that a more ancestral WOE appears to have the greatest potential when applied from conception.
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hi friends, i just want to tell you that toddler's doing just fine. he's having two big meals with raw muscle meat, organs and fats. he just drinks raw sour goat yogurt for the breakfast. he doesn't give me troubles with his food. if he sometimes feels like to eat fruits, than he eats that by himself. he loves raw unsalted cheese and he also eats that by himself. beside that i feed him.
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I want to upgrade this post now. He's been doing 100% raw paleo almost two years now and my son is four. His dairy intake is zero, no sugar , salt....The result is amazing. Past two years, he's absolutely showing no sign of any kind of illness, even not a little runny nose. His diet is similar to Lex Rocker. But now sometimes he likes to eat seasonal wild berries and grapes (seeded of course).
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His diet is similar to Lex Rocker. But now sometimes he likes to eat seasonal wild berries and grapes (seeded of course).
So he doesn't eat carbs every day? Once in a week, a month or only in the summer?
Does he eat some veggies, honey?
How much protein does he eat on average? Any organ-meats?
What about his cognitive development?
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I'd be pouty too if I had to eat liver Everyday Day.
Moderation. Liver once a week, or change up. There's a whole animal to eat. And veggies. And tree ripened fruit, etc, clay, etc etc.
No more liver, diff food.
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So he doesn't eat carbs every day? Once in a week, a month or only in the summer?
Does he eat some veggies, honey?
How much protein does he eat on average? Any organ-meats?
What about his cognitive development?
He absolutely doesn't eat any veggies. But I put him on bath with wild grass and wild dandelion leaves juice on the water. He doesn't like honey. Almost a pound of meat/other organs, fats (brain, bone marrows, ducks and chicken eggs, tongue, eyes), he consumes. That's all. Whenever he gets a chance wild berries or blueberries, he eats. He loves seeded water melons. Oranges time to time (once or twice a week). His language (we speak couple of different languages at home) development is slow, but every other thing is normal.
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His language (we speak couple of different languages at home) development is slow, but every other thing is normal.
I don't know about your little boy, but I've seen other little boys his age extremely slow at starting to speak then turn out very friendly, sensitive, intelligent, fine with language and get college degrees never having to have special classes or any kind of extra help when born into and raised in raised in multi-language households.