Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: miles on January 22, 2010, 09:18:17 pm
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I posted a reply in another topic but I didn't get any response...
So far: In the past, if I had ever had fruit with little or no meat/fat prior to training I would feel jittery as if I had lots of free/active energy, but I would be weak and inflammatory and therefore would not be able to put the energy to good use.
Recently: Since going raw-meat/no fruit I have been much stronger, and less inflammatory, but in training I have very quickly felt out of free/active energy and thus been unable to use my strength.
Does anyone know what I should do? I have considered, with very little information available, the following options; which I would like opinion on:
- Stick with a variety of fatty-meats, and I will become 'ketogenic' and I won't feel low on energy anymore as I will be able to effectively utilise raw fats on their own
- Frequently consume organs(as I would previously have consumed fruit) which contain glycogen, as it is essential to have carbs in order to recover properly(becoming ketogenic is not a good thing in general, and is only good as an emergency response to a lack of carbs, with carbs usually being involved in the utilisation of fat - not ketones), to utilise fat effectively and feel full of energy, however glycogen unlike sugars, does not cause inflammation and is accompanied by much other good nutrition in the organs
I don't know if either of these statements are true, and that's why I'd like a response, thanks.
Miles.
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Fructose from fruits seems to be a problem for some, while glucose is not. This is my case.
The trouble is to find rawpaleo source of glucose without fructose. But there is no to my knowledge.
Liver contains very few glycogen.
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The trouble is to find rawpaleo source of glucose without fructose. But there is no to my knowledge.
There's no such source, as it is definietely unnatural.
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There's no such source, as it is definietely unnatural.
What is unnatural is the excess fructose in modern fruits. Fructose is sweeter than glucose to the taste. Only berries have a better ratio of fructose/glucose.
According to Schwarzbein : http://thetotaltoner.com/sprinciple.wmv
"If you don't eat enough carbs, insuline goes too low, and you don't rebuild" ie "you don't make (enough) neurotransmetters, hormones, enzymes, ..."
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What is unnatural is the excess fructose in fruits. Fructose is more sweet than glucose to taste. Only berries have a better ratio of fructose/glucose.
Unnatural is also much higher pollution than in paleo times. But we've got to live on this Earth.
Re berries - that's not true - look at nutrtiondata
blueberries - about the same amount of glucose as fructose
but in raspberries you've got more fructose
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Fructose from fruits seems to be a problem for some, while glucose is not. This is my case.
The trouble is to find rawpaleo source of glucose without fructose. But there is no to my knowledge.
Liver contains very few glycogen.
Does anyone know where a chart is of fructose:glucose ratios in various foods, fruits or honeys?
http://fabulousforagers.ning.com/forum/topics/digesting-fructose-or-why-does (http://fabulousforagers.ning.com/forum/topics/digesting-fructose-or-why-does)
There was a discussion on one of the other forums I'm a member of.
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Does anyone know where a chart is of fructose:glucose ratios in various foods, fruits or honeys?
http://fabulousforagers.ning.com/forum/topics/digesting-fructose-or-why-does (http://fabulousforagers.ning.com/forum/topics/digesting-fructose-or-why-does)
There was a discussion on one of the other forums I'm a member of.
http://paleocron.blogspot.com/2009/12/fructose-glucose-ratios.html
http://paleocron.blogspot.com/2009/11/avoiding-fructosesort-of.html
Cranberries have the best fructose/glucose ratio (not very sweet). Carrots have a low fructose content.
http://paleocron.blogspot.com/2009/12/fructose-how-it-acts-as-toxin.html
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By inflammation I'm not just talking about gut inflammation. I'm talking about all muscles. I haven't been getting it without fruit(sugar). But now I feel like I don't have active energy to use in training, so although I'm not getting this pain/inflammation which was holding me back, I now can't do much anyway because of low active energy(I describe it as active energy, because I may have eaten lots of 'energy' through protein/fat but I'm not being able to use it).
As far as gut-inflammation goes, I've actually had more of that since eating raw meat{[(I didn't have a problem with that, hardly ever, since I started following basic paleo principles(but cooked meat) - only occasionally I'd get gut inflammation if I would eat too much fruit)]}, which I expect is caused by the bacteria(in/on raw meat); I get it when I'm using lots of energy in training(well as much energy as I can since I have very little), I expect because I don't have enough left to fuel the anti-bacterial fight in my gut. 'Libido'(gamete production) also seems to have decreased.
Along with the decreased inflammation in my muscles which was the main objective, the same seems to be happening on my skin, as my spots/acne(I'm 18) seem/s to be decreasing and healing up as a result of my exclusion of fruit. However, I have acquired a viral infection(verruca) on one of my toes.
Whatever I do, I do not see how going on like this could be good, but I do not want to lose the positive effects I have gained(decreased inflammation)...
Do you think that if I get my sugar/carbs from foods with balanced glucose/fructose(some berries[but they can be expensive and if I'd need a lot to keep up with my training I wouldn't be able to afford it], carrots and w/e else) that I won't get hyper-inflammation? Or is this just relating to gut-inflammation? I thought it was suggested that any bacteria/parasites may thrive on fiber?
If I would definitely adapt to this diet, and whilst maintaining low-inflammation, the other negative effects I've so-far endured would gradually disappear, then I would stick with it; because I would really like to not have to go back to inflammation. But if for that, I need to go somewhere between where I am now and where I was, then I will do that also(e.g. if I need to have carbs, but from different sources to before).
What I need it feedback/opinion from you,
Thanks,
Miles.
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The point of rawpaleo is to replace all sugars/carbs with animal fat.
It takes time for your body to change, and some get side effects, usually called detox.
And stop believing in the germ theory of disease - it is a lie.
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The point of rawpaleo is to replace all sugars/carbs with animal fat.
Concise and perfect.
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Why do I want to adapt, how will I adapt, will I really or will I just get used to this? Why did someone give me a link to a woman saying you need some carbs and why would I be affected so badly by this if it was better? Can't someone/some people please spare some time to explain this to me properly. I feel like I'm walking blind. Everything in me is telling me to eat some fruit... but I'm not because I don't want muscular inflammation, and am assured that I will adapt. But please tell me how I will adapt... What is this adaptation. Please tell me what happened to you when you changed diet, what you went through, time-scale, how you adapted, so I can relate and understand what will happen... Please.
I also don't know what you mean by 'the germ-theory of evolution' but that is minuscule compared to the other issues I'm facing...
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The point of rawpaleo is to replace all sugars/carbs with animal fat.
No William; that's your opinion of what a raw paleo diet is.
Many others feel that there were varying amounts of vegetation in a paleolithic diet.
Just because you or I do best on a carnivorous diet doesn't mean it's the only way.
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Djr please tell me about yourself, what happened when you went carnivorous, the +'s and the -'s, how you adapted, when you adapted... What your body actually did to adapt. I want to give this the best chance to work(because I don't want to get back the inflammation I had[muscles or skin]), but nobody is really telling me anything about what happened to them...
I want to go and eat a Banana, or anything carbs, but I have been a while now without carbs, and the reason I've been able to last so far is because I remember the last time I had fruit I got inflammation(muscles, particularly my neck) again all of a sudden. However, after reading this about fructose/glucose balance, although it seems to be relating to gut-inflammation, it's fuelling my curiosity and desire to eat some fruit just in-case this glucose/fructose balance will spare my muscles from inflammation. Although I doubt it, it would take very little such as this to get me eating fruit as everything else in my body is telling me to do so(all except my most upper-level of consciousness). But if I'm progressing towards a positive adaptation, I don't want to ruin it and slow myself down. I need information, stories. Why do people seem reluctant to give actual personal transition-stories rather than just general statements?
I beg.
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Why do I want to adapt, how will I adapt, will I really or will I just get used to this? Why did someone give me a link to a woman saying you need some carbs and why would I be affected so badly by this if it was better? Can't someone/some people please spare some time to explain this to me properly. I feel like I'm walking blind. Everything in me is telling me to eat some fruit... but I'm not because I don't want muscular inflammation, and am assured that I will adapt. But please tell me how I will adapt... What is this adaptation. Please tell me what happened to you when you changed diet, what you went through, time-scale, how you adapted, so I can relate and understand what will happen... Please.
I also don't know what you mean by 'the germ-theory of evolution' but that is minuscule compared to the other issues I'm facing...
Miles,
I'll try to answer as much as I can. Note, this is all from my own personal experiences and everyone's body has different responses and adaptations so you really need to listen to your body first and foremost while using our anecdotal experiences to give you an idea of how things are going.
I'm also feeling the effects of yesterday's pemmican so this will not be as eloquent as I'd like but should give you the gist.
The intent & desire of switching to a keto-adapted body is one of efficiency. Fat gives more energy by weight than carbohydrates so there's less burden on the body. This has the added benefit of giving our bodies which have been barraged with elevated insulin since childhood, a chance to repair itself.
Your body right now is creating, and excreting, a large quantity of ketones to handle the larger volume of fat in your diet and is starving for glucose which it's used as fuel since you were a baby. It's trying to use the ketones but it's grossly inefficient at this right now. Over time (weeks) your body will go through changes to allow it to use the fat as a fuel as opposed the carbohydrates it uses now. This transitional time is hell on your body. Most of us here have gone through it in varying degrees and will confirm that it's hard (look through many of our early journals and you can see what symptoms/problems we had). You just need to trust the low energy will pass. There are some that do not do well on a carnivorous approach (such as Tyler) but you've got a good sounding board here who can help you decide how it's going if you experience abnormal symptoms.
I used to have a large amount of muscular inflammation. My knees were the worst. I took this as a sign of getting older. I do not have this eating raw carnivore. I also have higher energy than I did before (as shown by better time & endurance both running and cycling). I do not spar so can not confirm equal or greater performance in this area but it appears others on here have done perfectly fine following the transitional period.
Read my journal. It's only 8 pages at this point and the first 4 or so are my transitional period. Hopefully this and other journals can give you some solace in this period; they did this for me during my transition and made it easier to push through since I knew there was an end in sight.
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I can't know what your health situation is, particularly regarding inflammation/endocrine function/metabolism... I don't even know what my exact situation is because I've had some physiological problems unrelated to diet
I will tell you about my reduction in carbs
I'm not eating only meat. I'm now eating 3 servings of fruit a day (actual servings, such as 1 small or 1/2 large banana). I was consuming 16+ servings of carbs a day in the form of dates, wine, bread, and fruit (along with some raw meat and fat)
I had inflammation of the gut and endocrine problems and wanted to get that resolved through diet
When I cut back I had headache, fatigue, trouble focusing my eyes, sweating, anxiety, heart palpitations, puffy eyes, and insomnia
I had to eat more RAF in order to compensate for the loss of calories from carbs
I got gall bladder twinges for a few weeks
However, despite this suffering, my gut improved, my mood improved, and my blood sugar stabalized. I would eat half an orange if the symptoms got too bad.
I'm still not feeling fabulous but I'm feeling much better. The symptoms subsided. I'm more tired than I was (I think my body is being required to actually digest now) and sometimes I still get low blood sugar.
There is a disagreement on this forum about how many if any carbs are healthy. I personally am following as closely as I can the Homo Optimus Diet ratio of
protein 1 : fat 2.5 - 3.5 : carbs 0.5
I also eat other low-carb plant foods that are close to this ration naturally, such as avacado and sunflower seeds. The only carbs I'm really eating are the 3 fruits a day.
I don't want to go deep into ketosis (fat/protein-based metabolism) because of my compromised health. I'm metabolizing fat and protein better now (as confirmed by the ketostix urine tests and my decrease in "induction flu" symptoms) but also can eat some fruit without a problem (1 serving with each meal)
I don't know if I'd be better off eating no carbs. Some seem to do well with zero-carb, others don't. Maybe I'll reduce carbs further in the future
My goal is to be well and continue to be active. I'm a 41 yr old woman. I'm not an athlete, a man, or young.
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Djr please tell me about yourself, what happened when you went carnivorous, the +'s and the -'s, how you adapted, when you adapted... What your body actually did to adapt. I want to give this the best chance to work(because I don't want to get back the inflammation I had[muscles or skin]), but nobody is really telling me anything about what happened to them...
I want to go and eat a Banana, or anything carbs, but I have been a while now without carbs, and the reason I've been able to last so far is because I remember the last time I had fruit I got inflammation(muscles, particularly my neck) again all of a sudden. However, after reading this about fructose/glucose balance, although it seems to be relating to gut-inflammation, it's fuelling my curiosity and desire to eat some fruit just in-case this glucose/fructose balance will spare my muscles from inflammation. Although I doubt it, it would take very little such as this to get me eating fruit as everything else in my body is telling me to do so(all except my most upper-level of consciousness). But if I'm progressing towards a positive adaptation, I don't want to ruin it and slow myself down. I need information, stories. Why do people seem reluctant to give actual personal transition-stories rather than just general statements?
I beg.
Maybe you can give us more details on your diet : amount of food, cooked or raw, etc.
In my experience, inflammation is, on a rawpaleo diet, caused by too much food. The excess nutrients, whether fat, protein or carbs cause inflammation.
Gut inflammation is generally related to an unbalanced digestive flora. Often excess carbs (fibers) are the culprit. My gut is calm when I eat only animal products.
As for fruits, I can't handle a lot of fruits without hypoglycaemia and addiction. Beware of your body telling you to eat fruits. they are highly addictive!
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Excess Macro-Micro Nutrients, or excess Intake-Output of Energy, or simple Excess Intake full-stop?
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Excess Macro-Micro Nutrients, or excess Intake-Output of Energy, or simple Excess Intake full-stop?
I also feel tired when I eat too much (fatty meat).
what amount of food do you eat ?
and what food ?
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The point of rawpaleo is to replace all sugars/carbs with animal fat.
I don't believe this to be the case nor do most of the members here.
I think its more correct to say that we are trying to replace our old sugar/carb intake with varying amounts of raw foods. The amount of raw animals and raw vegetation will vary for each person. For some, like you it will be 0 and for most it will be very low.
I don't understand why you are making such a broad statement that you know does not allign itself with the conventional thoughts of the board. Are you purposely trying to get attention? Why can't you add the phrase, "In my opinion" before you write these things. It really seems like you are intentionally trying to provoke an emotional response.
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I don't believe this to be the case nor do most of the members here.
I think its more correct to say that we are trying to replace our old sugar/carb intake with varying amounts of raw foods. The amount of raw animals and raw vegetation will vary for each person. For some, like you it will be 0 and for most it will be very low.
I don't understand why you are making such a broad statement that you know does not allign itself with the conventional thoughts of the board. Are you purposely trying to get attention? Why can't you add the phrase, "In my opinion" before you write these things. It really seems like you are intentionally trying to provoke an emotional response.
Yes I believe William like confrontations and emotional exchanges. I think the best strategy is to ignore those provocations, otherwise we waste our time in futile arguments.
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Well Previously... I would eat ~1200-1500g of minced beef/day. The ratio would be approximately equal protein/fat i.e 'Nutrition/100g: Protein:20g, Fat:20g; or 16/16. This meat would be cooked, but just enough so it would not be red(cooked on 100 degrees Celsius). On top of this I would have fruits/veg, mainly pears and bananas. It would also include other fruits when we had them, but all sweet not sour, and sometimes cabbage/lettuce/carrots as well. I was on this maybe slightly over a year, but with variation on the meat nearer the beginning e.g. salty/high cooked/microwaved but I stopped this.
Towards the end of that, I started cutting out fruit more and more. I found that I still 'needed' it, but if I could just have meat/fat before training and no fruit I would have a lot less inflammation during the training. So I was doing this, but then I thought 'Why have the fruit at all if it does this to me, is it also causing the inflammation/acne on my skin?' etc... But I thought that without fruit I would need my micro-nutrients somewhere else, and there seemed to be a ying/yang between meat/fruit, like dry/moist, even ignoring the sugar.
The quantity's been about the same. I've been eating ~1000-1500g of raw meat(including fat) per day. I found I had to eat more earlier on though, as if I eat late now it keeps me up. I used to eat fruit alongside my last meal and I would get to sleep fine but without it I don't, so I just don't eat late on.
Because of this, I simultaneously cut fruit and went carnivorous.
So far I've been having mainly beef but a bit of lamb. I've been getting fairly fatty cuts of braising steak/diced stewing steak predominantly, along with some other experiments e.g. Fish/Rabbit. I couldn't get the same mince I had cooked because there seemed to be some chemical which would usually go away with cooking. But the other mince which I've had(fresh-minced from the store/local butcher not mass-shipped) has been what I've enjoyed by FAR the most because of texture and that it's all mixed in I guess. I'm UK, so I think the beef is grass-fed then grain-finished, but isn't organic so will have added hormones etc. I guess.
I do two sessions of exercise per day, one being Conditioning and the other being Judo. On the week-end I have Judo earlier/Conditioning later and vice versa during the week.
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=S ... I didn't want to complicate this Thread... I'd tried making posts in other threads and no one would reply. Therefore I tried to make this one as simple and plain as possible. Now it's too much information and no one would be bothered to read it...
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=S ... I didn't want to complicate this Thread... I'd tried making posts in other threads and no one would reply. Therefore I tried to make this one as simple and plain as possible. Now it's too much information and no one would be bothered to read it...
It's ok Miles; it's better we have too much information as opposed to not enough. I've read the whole thing and I'm sure others have as well.
I honestly think you're just dealing with typical adaption problems. I felt much like you do including the overwhelming fear about if what I was going through was normal adaptation. I remember one day I felt like complete hell with no energy and didn't think I could do much more. The next day I actually felt good. It still took a while to feel great but the day of clarity was a sign I was on the right path.
I'm serious about looking through old journals (this helped me the most; much more than having others tell me it would be ok) as they show exactly how people were feeling and then the shift.
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=S ... I didn't want to complicate this Thread... I'd tried making posts in other threads and no one would reply. Therefore I tried to make this one as simple and plain as possible. Now it's too much information and no one would be bothered to read it...
Are you eating organs? & are you cooking meats? just want to confirm thnx
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All the meats are raw. I had heart once but didn't like the 'suet' in it. I have been consuming a small amount of liver, post-exercise, prior to consuming muscle-meat/fat; although this isn't really set and I've had it some other times too. I had to get the liver from the butcher not the supermarket, as I can't consume that much of it and it just goes off too much, since my gut seems still to be struggling with the high-bacteria levels.
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it's not too much, i've been reading as i'm sure are others :)
if it's any help... i had severe intestinal inflammation that has been gone since summer! i know i cannot eat fruits/veg... at least not yet. and like carnivore said, too much food is also problematic. like if i eat too much fat i can tell because i don't feel as well in digestion. the last non-raw paleo thing i ate was a cooked chicken breast (from farm) and i ate it completely plain (just baked and no seasoning/salt). the inflammation not only returned, but was within 24 hours among some of the worst symptoms i've ever had with ibs. raw works for me. probably easier to stay raw and without fear when i fear more the cooked food. i intend to try organs.. eventually :)
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All the meats are raw. I had heart once but didn't like the 'suet' in it. I have been consuming a small amount of liver, post-exercise, prior to consuming muscle-meat/fat; although this isn't really set and I've had it some other times too. I had to get the liver from the butcher not the supermarket, as I can't consume that much of it and it just goes off too much, since my gut seems still to be struggling with the high-bacteria levels.
How are you storing the meats?
Increase the organ makeup - if you cant handle the taste, use a curry spice blend, or a basic cayenne, turmeric curcumin, COMPLETELY kills the taste of organ meats & dip into some raw cream - delicious, great for beginners just starting to eat organs
If you've got digestive problems, take charcoal, or kefir, both acclimatise your digestive system
The above will rapidly allow you to adapt your body
I've been where you are, large amounts of organs are the key to adapting your body to fat as a fuel
The inflammation is a normal response, cut out all fruits & carbs until your inflammation clears up
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Why would I I disguise it's natural taste? If I thought it was good I could gobble down 1kg of liver, however much my body told me not to. It's not that I actually couldn't eat more of it, but I don't feel(from the taste) that I should... of that particular organ anyway.
I'm storing the meats in the fridge, but I've been leaving them out of the fridge before eating,(For quite a number of hours including over-night for morning food), other than the liver and some sort of fat(probably suet) which a butcher gave to me for free, since I won't have much of this stuff at once. The room I'm leaving the meat is fairly cold anyway.
By 'Increase the organ makeup' do you just mean to eat more organs? I could make an effort to get more variety in organs, but there isn't much variation in the standard produce. Really just Heart and Liver, perhaps an occasional kidney(which I haven't tried yet) available.
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Why would I I disguise it's natural taste? If I thought it was good I could gobble down 1kg of liver, however much my body told me not to. It's not that I actually couldn't eat more of it, but I don't feel(from the taste) that I should... of that particular organ anyway.
I'm storing the meats in the fridge, but I've been leaving them out of the fridge before eating,(For quite a number of hours including over-night for morning food), other than the liver and some sort of fat(probably suet) which a butcher gave to me for free, since I won't have much of this stuff at once. The room I'm leaving the meat is fairly cold anyway.
By 'Increase the organ makeup' do you just mean to eat more organs? I could make an effort to get more variety in organs, but there isn't much variation in the standard produce. Really just Heart and Liver, perhaps an occasional kidney(which I haven't tried yet) available.
You're tastebuds havent acclimatised to the taste of organs, i've been eating organs for a while & i still cant stand the taste, you're taste buds simply get overloaded from the amount of nutrients & tells you not to eat them, its basically an instinctive response
The spices will allow your tastebuds to adjust & you will start to want to eat them in huge portions without the spices after a while, im just beginning to crave them without the spices, it takes about 1 or 2 months, depending on how normalised your taste buds are to low level nutrients
Ring you butcher or shop to order what ever you need, the day before or days you goto pick them up
Store all your meats in jars, this is especially important for organs, high quality liver will last up to 2 weeks in an air tight glass jar
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What organs should I get and in what proportions? What quantity should I eat them in relative to muscle-meats? Aren't there increased parasite risks with certain organs? And what will it do for how I feel if I eat more of them?
So far I've been getting 'standard' beef/lamb, as I think this is grass-fed at least most of it's life before being 'grain-finished'(Whatever that really means).
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What organs should I get and in what proportions? What quantity should I eat them in relative to muscle-meats? Aren't there increased parasite risks with certain organs? And what will it do for how I feel if I eat more of them?
So far I've been getting 'standard' beef/lamb, as I think this is grass-fed at least most of it's life before being 'grain-finished'(Whatever that really means).
Grain finished arent grass fed, basically fed massive amounts of grain to fatten up the meat, before it gets to the abbatoir & market, you have to get fully grass fed beef
Start with small chunks of 50 to 70 grams of organs, i usually take 25 grams kidneys, 50 to 70+ grams liver, basically around 50 grams of all organs you have available is good if your beginning
Dont chew the organs, chop them up into small swallowable chunks, even with the spices chewing will release juices overloading your tastebuds, not pleasant for beginners lol
Swallowing organs & meats is the key for beginners to adjust, the nutrients released overload their tastebuds, i've noticed africans adapt rapidly, chewing raw meats & organs straight away ...
As long as you avoid grain finished, & commercial meat, you wont get harmful parasites, the dangerous strains only occur in nature to break down diseased meats & organs
Organs regenerate rapidly your muscles organs, fillets steaks muscle meats nourish, white meats fish poultry etc regenerate connective & nervous tissue
Due to the lack of high quality white meats, i dont recommend white meats to clients until theyve rebuilt their immune system for at least 3 or 4 months on the above
You need to find fish labelled mercury free, & fully pastured cockerel run poultry, let me know if you find any ....
The more organs you eat, the faster your immune system rebuilds itself, the more balanced & the easier it becomes to concentrate & focus, the difference is spectacular, especially on large amounts of liver, 150+ grams is incredible
Where in the u.k are you? I know most of the decent farmer markets in the u.k ..
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it's not too much, i've been reading as i'm sure are others :)
if it's any help... i had severe intestinal inflammation that has been gone since summer! i know i cannot eat fruits/veg... at least not yet. and like carnivore said, too much food is also problematic. like if i eat too much fat i can tell because i don't feel as well in digestion. the last non-raw paleo thing i ate was a cooked chicken breast (from farm) and i ate it completely plain (just baked and no seasoning/salt). the inflammation not only returned, but was within 24 hours among some of the worst symptoms i've ever had with ibs. raw works for me. probably easier to stay raw and without fear when i fear more the cooked food. i intend to try organs.. eventually :)
Your inflammation is reduced alot better on organs, the larger amount of minerals & nutrients in organs heal your toxins stored in your body faster then lean meats.
Inflammation & rashes are only caused when, you ingest cooked foods, or carbs & fruits, dairy too if your ability to handle proteins & fats is impaired, if your body hasnt fully detoxed your tissues of toxins, they rapidly rise to the surface, causing rashes, inflammation, basically they detox too fast for your cells & bacteria to contain them, so they get released into your system, skin tissues etc.
Organs build up your cells & bacteria much faster then muscle meats, minimising the detox side effects when starting
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I'm living in Herefordshire, and soon will be living near Birmingham. Can you tell me where I can get this fully-pastured(and I assume organic, whether or not they need to meet official 'organic' standards I don't know) meat, close to me? I'll need to get the best value that I can on this meat(e.g. contract buying, cheaper cuts or whatever they can offer).
Why would grain-finished be more likely to have parasites/bad bacteria which would affect me negatively? And is 'grain-finished' meat virtually the same as 'grain-fed' meat..?
P.S. You mentioned clients. Clients of what, what do you do?
Thanks.
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You can get high quality grass fed, none grain fed meat from Northfield Farm, or the ginger pig, they deliver
They can also source all the organs you need
Get deboned breast of lamb if you're on a budget, about £3-£4 a kg, or a kg of brisket for around £8 if you want a fatty cut, ask them to chop the brisket into mini steaks/fillets
The fats from grain fed, or grain finished meats, arent healthy, plus the grains contain gmo feed, or stuff like soya
They wont do much in the short term, but long term use will
I've been researching alternative health, for a while, about 6 years, & have successfully helped plenty of people from illnesses, from life threatening heart disease & vascular damage, to stuff like chronic ulcerative colitis & stomach cancer
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Why would grain-finished be more likely to have parasites/bad bacteria which would affect me negatively? And is 'grain-finished' meat virtually the same as 'grain-fed' meat..?
Grain-finished or grain fed or more accurately commercial fodder finished animals are sick, so have a crippled immune system unable to control parasites/bad bacteria.
You could search "commercial fodder" or "feedlot beef" or some such and find what they are actually fed, if you want to turn your stomach.
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Northfield Farm is Organic? And how do I know what the animals are fed? It doesn't really seem to say even that the lamb/beef is grass-fed only. As for meat other than beef/lamb I don't know what they should be fed.
Also... This(Northfield Farm) is definitely the closest to me(South of Hereford)? It seems to be 124 miles from me. Can they really deliver to me cost-effectively if there's not one closer? When I'm moving, also, I'll be in Walsall. I'll contact Northfield Farm asap anyway.
The Ginger Pig doesn't seem to have much useful info on-line at all.
Thanks.
Side Note: I've got some gut-problems atm making me feel like not eating although I haven't eaten much and know I normally would be hungry and I have signs of needing food. Should I just eat anyway? I'm guessing it's 'bad'/high bacteria from some of the raw meat I've been eating.. I certainly hope it's not parasitic anyway, that would suck...
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You can ask them, i know because i can taste the grass & silage in the meat, same for the ginger pig, you can taste the hay in the meat, its that fresh, but i hate the taste of hay lol
Theyre not the closest, but i know them & theyre meat is high quality, unfortunately i dont know the quality of the meats in the markets in your area, which is why i recommended you get them delivered, while you find a good supplier near you
Theyre not organic, you can get organic, but organic grass fed is pricey & not that much different
If you're hungry eat lol
Dont worry about parasites, unless you get visible bleeding in your stools etc
You could be just sated, just avoid thinking the worst, its alot safer then you think, once you get some real nutrition you'll be fine
You'll also need to find a supplier for unpasturised grass fed butter & some cream, red23 sell raw goats milk, but cows milk is supposed to be superior
Hurdlebrook sell cream
I dont recommend cheese, as its heated
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Why would I want dairy products..?
When you say they're not Organic, do you just mean that they don't meet the official organic standards i.e They don't follow a few necessary procedures to acquire the label, but raise their animals just as well? Or do they still pump hormones and stuff in to the animals...? And you said hay.. Is this what people mean by grass-fed? Grass and hay seem like quite different things, and if you can taste the hay and don't like it, how can it be good...?
How should I go about finding a good supplier near me? Do you think the Northfield Farm would help me find one if I asked, if they'd even know?
How much do you think the delivery over 124 miles would cost..? Of course I shall do what I can to find a supplier near me 'by myself', but are you sure you, or anyone else here don't know of, or know someone who would know of good suppliers closer to me?
Less Important: Why should I get the Breast of Lamb 'de-boned'?
Thanks.
Edit: The delivery is apparently £9.95 regardless of where you live. Does this mean I won't get better delivery prices by ordering closer to home anyway? It seems unlikely that it'd be feasible for me to collect directly from a farm or their market anyway even if it was closer, but I don't know..
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Delivery should be £10
Very few high quality grass fed farmers in the u.k bother with being organic accredited, they were organic before the cert was invented lol
Organics allow antibiotics, very few grass fed owners use antibiotics, as they dont need them
Google farm markets in your area, & ring the farms who sell there, ask them how they feed their cattle, dont tell them you need grass fed lol
You can also check the list of suppliers by tyler in the beginners section
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I don't see how I can find local suppliers by my self, I'll need some sort of help. Who should I go to? Isn't there anyone on here who knows? Would a local-butcher be likely to know, and to tell me if he did..?
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Check here for suppliers, also look on seeds of health, or google grass fed liver or beef
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/important-info-for-newbies/ (http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/important-info-for-newbies/)
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None of the places that I can find on seeds-of-health or any kind of search on the internet so far are close to me(which seems sort of odd since Herefordshire is quite rural in general - but it may be that it's teeming with such farms, but because it has so many of them they don't make such a big cahoot with websites and stuff)... If I can't collect the meat myself, which I really need to; to save £10 per order, I really may as well just order from Northfield Farm.
I am thinking that in order to find somewhere close enough for me to pick the meat up myself, I would need to find it 'by word of mouth'. That is: Someone telling me about the place, or even telling me what sort of people would be able to tell me about such a place.
I would've ordered already, for in the mean-time, but I can't until Friday anyway. That's why I'm still frantic about finding a place. By Friday I will definitely be ordering from Northfield farm if I can't find somewhere closer before then.
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http://www.hfmg.org/ (http://www.hfmg.org/)
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Why would I want dairy products..?
Most of us will tell you that you don't. Some here do, or feel that they do, well on them so advocate them. Others, myself included, do not.
When you say they're not Organic, do you just mean that they don't meet the official organic standards i.e They don't follow a few necessary procedures to acquire the label, but raise their animals just as well? Or do they still pump hormones and stuff in to the animals...? And you said hay.. Is this what people mean by grass-fed? Grass and hay seem like quite different things, and if you can taste the hay and don't like it, how can it be good...?
Most of the time the farmers feeding their animals grass haven't bothered as it's an additional cost (and a high one at that) to get certified organic. Some grassfed farmers do use hormones but the majority will not. Antibiotics are also not a necessity if the animals are eating right. :)
Grass is grass. Hay is dried grass used to overwinter the animals when there is not fresh grass to eat.
Grain is grain. Silage is dried grain stalks also used to overwinter animals.