Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: ForTheHunt on March 15, 2010, 02:16:38 am
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Has anyone noticed that when they go very low carb that they get more irritable and aggresive?
I become extremely aggressive when doing vlc and if I'm arguing with someone I always feel a strong urge to become violent even though I have no history of violence what so ever. I actually just punched a whole through my door and usually I laugh at people that smash their things when their angry because I feel it's so stupid.
I'm just curious what you think causes this? I think it's either some carb addiction withdrawal or my brain just being low on sugar and therefor doesn't work properly?
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I think that's nonsense.I've been vlc for various long periods and have varied my temperament considerably during those times. And I haven't changed temperament-wise when doing LC or ZC(in later ZC trials I'd just be too tired to be angry/emotional, anyway)
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I don't think it is.
I've noticed this every time I do a ZC stint. Also there's lots stuff about this on the internet so it's pretty real.
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Also there's lots stuff about this on the internet so it's pretty real.
(http://www.hjo3.net/orly/gal1/orly_owl.jpg)
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Has anyone noticed that when they go very low carb that they get more irritable and aggresive?
no, the opposite really. i don't get aggressive either, but i can get irritable in an impatient with myself and others kind of way. that happens when i'm hungry and i've not eaten. i could eat a little bit of meat and fat and be calm again right away.
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Do you put salt on your food ? If yes, could be low potassium. Dairy helps with irritability too.
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Yes I do salt quite a bit, sadly. Just makes things so tasty :'/
How does it work though, that salt would make me low potassium?
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I did notice it some in the beginning. I attribute it to more testosterone than I had made previously. I had the same issues in puberty.
After my body regulated though I'm more level-headed & calmer and less likely to have rage issues.
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Has anyone noticed that when they go very low carb that they get more irritable and aggresive?
I become extremely aggressive when doing vlc and if I'm arguing with someone I always feel a strong urge to become violent even though I have no history of violence what so ever. I actually just punched a whole through my door and usually I laugh at people that smash their things when their angry because I feel it's so stupid.
I'm just curious what you think causes this? I think it's either some carb addiction withdrawal or my brain just being low on sugar and therefor doesn't work properly?
Do you know if your gallbladder / liver is constipated? Have you ever done liver flushes?
I used to be very irritable and my holistic doctor then said my liver / gallbladder was constipated.
She was right.
I cleansed my gallbladder / liver and mellowed down.
Always try to see what works for you. if VLC makes you irritable, adjust to see what makes you happy.
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Yes I do salt quite a bit, sadly. Just makes things so tasty :'/
I had got the same experience 2,5 years ago, when I started RPD.
Now I find the pure muscle-meats, organ-meats, suet toothsome. Adding salt would definitely worsen the taste.
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Do you know if your gallbladder / liver is constipated? Have you ever done liver flushes?
I used to be very irritable and my holistic doctor then said my liver / gallbladder was constipated.
She was right.
I cleansed my gallbladder / liver and mellowed down.
Always try to see what works for you. if VLC makes you irritable, adjust to see what makes you happy.
I have done 2 liver flushes. First one a lot of stones came out, second one nothing came out. Think I should do a 3rd?
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Yes I do salt quite a bit, sadly. Just makes things so tasty :'/
How does it work though, that salt would make me low potassium?
Because salt and potassium work the same way as magnesium and calcium. When calcium gets too high, magnesium gets low. They are antagonists. When your body has too much natrium, potassium gets low.
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I've had the same thing happen to me (getty very angry when I reduced carbs a lot.) It also happened when I was fasting before.
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Do you know if your gallbladder / liver is constipated? Have you ever done liver flushes?
I used to be very irritable and my holistic doctor then said my liver / gallbladder was constipated.
She was right.
I cleansed my gallbladder / liver and mellowed down.
What was your method for liver cleanse? I have had chronic liver pain and anger for years.
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I have done 2 liver flushes. First one a lot of stones came out, second one nothing came out. Think I should do a 3rd?
Sure go ahead. Nothing to lose.
You can drink 1 liter of organic apple juice every day for 5 days with your regular paleo diet. (to make the liver flow, soften stones)
Then on the 6th day a hulda clark liver flush.
Andreas Moritz thinks 10 flushes are necessary for very sick people. Although since we are on raw, we could clear up in less flushes.
I like the egg yolks liver flush for 4 straight days. It's more paleo. But I guess egg yolk liver flushing should come later on.
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what exactly are these stones.. what do they look like? are they rock hard? are these flushes painful to pass the stone?
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my experience is that they are not much more than soft soft mushy green pea like balls. I think it is from the bile combining with the oils used. They look impressive in the toilet floating. But truly wonder if it is nothing but oil and bile.
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Liver stones and liver flushing
http://www.curemanual.com/detox-protocols-and-treatments/liver-gall-bladder-flush/
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my experience is that they are not much more than soft soft mushy green pea like balls. I think it is from the bile combining with the oils used. They look impressive in the toilet floating. But truly wonder if it is nothing but oil and bile.
I have read the same thing. I am impressed how goodsmaritan cured his eczema with liver flush and have heard success stories from others. But what I have read about is that the liver stones are not stones from the liver but the bile combined with cholesterol. Real stones that are in the liver are too big to pass. It would be like passing the golf ball through the bile duct.
http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1590488 and http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1464691#i
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Hard stones can be passed. see the photos going around. They are real.
gold coin grass will soften them.
apple juice / apples will soften them
the liver flush with epsom salts makes big monsters pass.
I've seen people get gall bladders removed and keep their alleged "stones" as souvenirs... pitiful. They were just scare mongered by their surgeon for money... if that's what they call "stones" me and my brother ejected hundreds more than those tiny bits.
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I'm not sure if all that stuff that comes out is actually from gallstones. But I read once on the internet that there was an article in the British Journal of Surgery that has a case of gallstones that were removed by an olive oil & lemon liver flush. I actually traced the article down in the university clinic library, and it was there. The stones were observed by ultrasound, and after the flush the ultrasound was repeated and there were no stones. So there is a documented case of a liver flush actually removing gallstones.
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What if those stones were composed of different things for different people (not everyone has the same lifestyle) and each would require a different approach regarding flushing?
Someone has to come up with more specific things before I would consider them. Not just "do the flush and see what happens, maybe you're lucky or maybe not".
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What if those stones were composed of different things for different people (not everyone has the same lifestyle) and each would require a different approach regarding flushing?
Someone has to come up with more specific things before I would consider them. Not just "do the flush and see what happens, maybe you're lucky or maybe not".
First of all, you have nothing to lose from doing a liver flush. You can do a liver flush by being chemical free. Egg yolk liver flushes are all natural, may even be considered paleo, it's just a combination of food and timing: egg yolks, lemons / limes / calamansi, extra virgin olive oil / raw butter / peanut oil / animal fat.
My entire extended family has liver flushed, including 82 year old grandma, 98 year old grandpa, 7 year old boy.
So what are you afraid of?
Why should there be even a hint of hesitation?
http://www.curemanual.com/2008/10/liver-flushing-using-egg-yolks-lime-juice-and-oil-by-tsetsi/
Second, liver flushing has been thoroughly documented and stone compositions vary and their colors vary. What with all the many thousands of people around the world doing liver flushes, analysing stones is not new. People being cured and cleansed of their livers is not new. Liver flushing has been around for at least 2000 plus years.
I myself have expelled green, black and even reddish stones.
I'm a veteran of 20+ liver flushes and tried various variations.
I got into 100% raw because I wanted to stop liver flushing and stop making new stones. And what do you know, after being on 14 day orange juice fast, then raw fruitarian, raw paleo diet... no more stones, 3 consecutive liver flushes in different variations... no more stones.
No more irritability for me. Only calmness. My anthroposophic doctor was correct 100% in my case.
Aajonus recommending 12+ raw eggs a day is liver cleansing / flushing by itself. Smell your poop. If it reeks of old canal smell, it comes from your liver.
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If you consider eating eggs as liver flushing than I may have done it already since I eat raw eggs regularly.
Still, I think it will be better to have a correlation between "stone composition" and "type of flush indicated".
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No you need epsom salts and a lot of citrus juice aswell
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If you consider eating eggs as liver flushing than I may have done it already since I eat raw eggs regularly.
Still, I think it will be better to have a correlation between "stone composition" and "type of flush indicated".
I think you need to take them at once with lemon and lime juice
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Hey GS, you've got me very interested in trying one of these liver flushes. I had a couple questions first.
Do you think its possible that these stones/whatever in the liver/gb will disappear by themselves on a rpd over time and thus no need for a liver flush?
Whats the worst that has happened to you during a liver flush?
I am thinking of trying the flush described here - http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=180601&s=1#i1
It suggests just a couple egg yolks, with lime juice and vegetable oil. I'd probably use either olive or coconut oil. They also don't say to restrict food intake during the day but do recommend doing an enema to get the release. I think I'd rather just use the epsom salt in place of the enema. Seems like a no brainer to try out if there is no downside. I'm really not into drinking apple juice so I'd rather avoid that if possible. I do have 6 dozen pastured eggs right now so I could do this and all yolk diet for that manner. Just need some limes and some epsom salt.
Also, later on in the thread, use of french green or bentonite clay is suggested. Thoughts on this? Thanks for any help.
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Just eating a good deal of raw eggs will cleanse the livers. Without the combo. Cancer and liver cirrhosis patients do this.
You can do liver flushes without epsom salts.
In my experience, all liver flushes I did were good with zero side effects.
Liver flush saved my 98 year old grandfather from pneumonia. And saved my brother when he was dying of psoriasis. My brother's liver was so toxic he was on his dying days with eruptions from head to toe. When he liver flushed he was shouting feebly that he was dying because the toxic black stones from his liver were unloaded in his stomach and he was reabsorbing the garbage... when the epsom salts kicked in and he pooped out around 150 plus black stones... he felt relief... brought back to life. He was deluged with a history of medication and pollutant lotions from psoriasis western medical treatments, mercury pollution, lead pollution, etc.... bad long history.
If you were in an emergency case as my brother and my grandpa, liver flush may be needed.
Probably if you are already on RPD and feeling quite well, just egg yolk liver flushing will do.
I myself suspect epsom salts as these are chemicals.
But as always, do what needs to be done according to the situation.
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Just eating a good deal of raw eggs will cleanse the livers. Without the combo. Cancer and liver cirrhosis patients do this.
You can do liver flushes without epsom salts.
In my experience, all liver flushes I did were good with zero side effects.
Liver flush saved my 98 year old grandfather from pneumonia. And saved my brother when he was dying of psoriasis. My brother's liver was so toxic he was on his dying days with eruptions from head to toe. When he liver flushed he was shouting feebly that he was dying because the toxic black stones from his liver were unloaded in his stomach and he was reabsorbing the garbage... when the epsom salts kicked in and he pooped out around 150 plus black stones... he felt relief... brought back to life. He was deluged with a history of medication and pollutant lotions from psoriasis western medical treatments, mercury pollution, lead pollution, etc.... bad long history.
If you were in an emergency case as my brother and my grandpa, liver flush may be needed.
Probably if you are already on RPD and feeling quite well, just egg yolk liver flushing will do.
I myself suspect epsom salts as these are chemicals.
But as always, do what needs to be done according to the situation.
Hey thanks, very interesting!
Just one question. Only egg yolks or the whole egg ?
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The egg yolks contain all the cholesterol and lecithin and 99% of the fat and other good stuff. The whites reall only have protein and magnesium...both pretty much irrelevant for a liver flush. Plus there's always the debate of "avadin", but honestly i don't see the whites as necessary nor a hinderance to a liver flush so....
As for the anger issue of OP, It would make sense that a constipated liver would contribute to this. Ancient chinese medicine has a list of emotions that affect certain organs and energy systems...
http://health.howstuffworks.com/traditional-chinese-medicine-causes-of-illness6.htm
Also If you think about how our society is usually raised...Well from childhood we're usually taught in school to eat for nutrition but because most of the "kids" food is nothing but high carbs sugary bullshit we usually can't resist the mad cravings and tend to ignore nutrition alltogether. We eat foods that make us feel good, we get trapped in the emotional "highs and lows" depending on stimulants like sugar and caffene to keep us happy and moving. In later years we've already unconsciously associated these high carb stimulants with pleasure so when we experience stress an easy way to get rid of it is to eat. Carbs keep us sedated because they release "feel good" chemicals in the brain so that we don't have to deal with the stress. So imagine a runner who runs mulitple times a day or a wieghtlifter who hits the gym multiple times a day who for a period of time can no longer do that. You'll notice (if you do a real life experiment) that unless the revert to TV or food they will get extremely irritable because their main source of stress relief is gone and they need to adapt to a new one. Another possible cause for stress is the body's adaptation to a new energy concentration. One of the main reasons HFCS is so addictive is because it's such a high concentration of sugar/energy, the body sees it as "superior", thus will perfer it over any lower concentrations. So when you take it away you'll constantly be craving it until your body resensitizes to a lower concentration of sugar.
So it's kinda like withdrawl...O.o, those are 2 theories anyway.
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btw does anyone know what the citrus is supposed to do??? this has perplexed me since i ever heard of the liver flush.
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calamansi / lemon / limes are some kind of liver tonic / alkalizer.
By themselves they are remedies.
For example, some healers will say squeeze 5 to 10 calamansi in the morning and drink when waking up.
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Has anyone noticed that when they go very low carb that they get more irritable and aggresive?
I become extremely aggressive when doing vlc and if I'm arguing with someone I always feel a strong urge to become violent even though I have no history of violence what so ever. I actually just punched a whole through my door and usually I laugh at people that smash their things when their angry because I feel it's so stupid.
I'm just curious what you think causes this? I think it's either some carb addiction withdrawal or my brain just being low on sugar and therefor doesn't work properly?
I was just reading about this, and it makes a lot of sense to me and matches up with my own experience. When I was eating more red meat and fat and less vegetables/carbohydrates, I also got really irritable and aggressive and easily frustrated and angry. If you look at it from a Chinese medicine perspective, it's because eating too much red meat can cause an overabundance of yang, which can cause symptoms such as irritability or aggressiveness:
"Balance Yin & Yang: All life on earth balances two complementary and opposite natural forces: expansion and contraction or yin and yang. Contraction holds our bodies together while expansive forces enable us to breathe, move around, think and feel. To stay in good health your body needs to keep both forces in balance. To do this you need to eat a balance of both expansive and contractive foods.
If you feel heavy, slow, hot, tense, sluggish, constipated, frustrated, irritable or too intense, you need to eat more Yin or expansive food such as fruit, honey, milk, yogurt and salads.
If you have sweet cravings, energy bursts followed by fatigue, cold hands and feet, no will power, feel moody, dreamy, spaced out or confused, irregular bowels, recurring colds and infections, you need to eat more Yang or contractive foods such as cheese, eggs, meat, nuts and tuna.
With an understanding of Chi, Yin/Yang and the meridians, you will be able to choose foods that are appropriate for your particular need."
If some people have too much yin to begin with, then maybe going VLC will help them balance out, keep them grounded and give them more constant energy. but if you're already a bit yang or evenly balanced, then maybe going VLC tips you over to an excess of yang, which can get you irritable and aggressive. I read this after I started eating more vegetables and less red meat, and I found that it corresponded to the improvement of symptoms I felt once I included more yin foods in my diet. I just feel more balanced now and not as irritable and wired.
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Has anyone noticed that when they go very low carb that they get more irritable and aggresive?
I become extremely aggressive when doing vlc and if I'm arguing with someone I always feel a strong urge to become violent even though I have no history of violence what so ever. I actually just punched a whole through my door and usually I laugh at people that smash their things when their angry because I feel it's so stupid.
I'm just curious what you think causes this?
Becoming more aggressive is the result of increased testosterone levels. Going zero carb high fat raw has this effect. Bodybuilders who take anabolic steroids are known to get 'roid rage'. Higher testosterone levels go hand in hand with increased social dominance and detection of treats to ones status (which explains the urge to become violent). It can be quite a disturbing experience if you never had so much testosterone in your blood. But once your body and mind adapt to the presence of these higher hormonal levels you will exude a calm power and receive increased respect from people around you.
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I had zero libido on high carb and low carb vegetarian. On raw ZC, I have a very high sex drive. I'm not at all irritable. I build muscle very well, too. I think the higher sex drive and more muscle must be the beneficial increase in testosterone after being so low when I was a vegetarian, and eating soy, too!
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I had zero libido on high carb and low carb vegetarian. On raw ZC, I have a very high sex drive. I'm not at all irritable. I build muscle very well, too. I think the higher sex drive and more muscle must be the beneficial increase in testosterone after being so low when I was a vegetarian, and eating soy, too!
Yes, more muscle and higher libido are indeed signs of an increased testosterone level. Optimal hormonal balance, which zero carb gives, is absolutely essential for healthy body chemistry and well being. It also keeps you lean and will protect you from any fat gain. I tell girls all the time they need to eat more saturated fat and that it will make them very lean and sexy but the cultural conditioning (fat=fat) is just too strong. You are obviously thriving on zero carb and getting the results you desire. Just more proof that a raw animal diet is what gives real power, energy and vitality.
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I could not have said it better, actionhero. I am amazed that I continually raise protein and fat, only to remain lean and go up in the weights at the gym. But try telling that to other women. They are stuck on "whole grains" and "healthy fruits and veggies" and endless cardio. Fine with me--I like being uniquely hot with a year round bikini body. I am glad I discovered ZC while young, particularly raw ZC.
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I wish people wouldn't keep mention the Taubes-inspired rubbish re low-carb/zero-carb supposedly leading automatically to lean stomachs. Lex already showed that greatly upping the fat-intake actually made him gain weight, not lose it. Plus, there are so many people who are very slim on carb-filled diets(Hunzas on vegetarian diets etc. etc.). I was a classic case in point, pre-rawpalaeodiet - my weight would vastly increase and a huge potbelly would appear if I ate any cooked animal foods of any kind - but, by contrast, when I was in raw vegan/fruitarian phases I was very slim.
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Well, Lex wasn't also doing weight lifting. This is the missing factor for a lot of people. I think ZC/VLC, particularly raw, will give you a good body; to have a great body, you need to do weights to some exercise. Muscle is so very important and a lot of people overlook that. Also, I believe Lex came from years of vegan dieting; I cannot imagine what affect that may have had on his system. Still, when he eats raw ZC with about 65% fat, he maintains his weight; only when he went above 80% for a significant period did he gain. I stick to 70-75% for the most part, and I'm super active.
Also, many people eat more than they need to for nutrition, even on ZC/VLC. There are several ZCers I know who were eating too much, and once they purposely cut down on portions--even eating more than they ate on previous diets, so not a starving portion--they found they were satisfied at the end. Many people are clean-your-plate types. For me, I put my portion in a bowl, which I have tracked in Fitday, and eat that. I'm always satisfied. I don't like to eat with other food around me distracting me, like at a buffet. If I'm hungry, I can make more, but that has never happened.
There are very few tribes that are very high carb, and those that are, I theorize that their slimness is in spite of the carb intake and due to factors such as whole foods, coconut or fish consumption--basically "clean-living." The fat they eat happens to be mostly saturated as well, and not polyunsaturated. Much different from Western high carb diets.
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my weight would vastly increase and a huge potbelly would appear if I ate any cooked animal foods of any kind
Well that's because your body chemistry is all fucked up. You can't be a couch potato and expect to have an athletic body. Both Art de Vany and Mark Sisson eat cooked animal products but have very lean muscular bodies. Exercise is very important. Funny how most people have no problem replicating what paleo man ate but somehow ignore that he was extremely active (hunting, lifting heavy things, running/sprinting).
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There are very few tribes that are very high carb, and those that are, I theorize that their slimness is in spite of the carb intake and due to factors such as whole foods, coconut or fish consumption--basically "clean-living." The fat they eat happens to be mostly saturated as well, and not polyunsaturated. Much different from Western high carb diets.
That's just pure nonsense. The majority of neolithic people were and are eating carbs as their main source of calories and are lean. Think Japan for a modern example. For the most part people get overweight from overfeeding and more so from eating abominations like sugar, additives and the like that throw body chemistry off balance.
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But try telling that to other women. They are stuck on "whole grains" and "healthy fruits and veggies" and endless cardio.
we are not so bad.
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Lex already showed that greatly upping the fat-intake actually made him gain weight, not lose it.
It was only a few pounds and he was still lean.
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I think both the Taubes and the low-fat (carb inclusive HG's etc..) camps are both right and wrong.
I don't think either says you can endlessly eat of either and never gain weight, just ideas on how and why the body craves foods or stores fat etc...
the idea that one is going to balloon up eating all raw fat or even all raw carbs even intentionally trying I'm highly skeptical of
unless there is some severe underlying issue/toxicity or eating addiction.
If someone finds themselves inactive and eating over 2-3k cal it means they probably arn't absorbing much of the nutrition, which explains some rare weight gain on raw low-fat (agree with Taubes on cooked starches/metabolic issues) or cooked ZC diets.
if someone is active, eating even enough to put on healthy weight/muscle is usually a challange/conscious effort unless the individual is already healthy (HGs) - as meeting basic nutritional/energy needs without addictions leaves one satisfied.
As for irritabilty, I don't see this as a positive sign of increased testosterone at all. Although both male and female hormonal imbalances are linked to mood swings, there is a difference between having healthy 'high' hormones in balance and being edgy/irritable. Irritability is usually linked to some kind of toxic or emotional suppression, surfaced by the lack of buffering crap on cooked diets. Fruitarains/raw vegetarians are some of the most emotionally fragile and irritable folks around.
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The problem with Taubes was that he blindly blamed all carbs at one point. But it's the refined/processed carbs (along with processed/cooked animal foods) which are the problem. As I recall Taubes did make some dodgy claims to the media about cutting carbs automatically leading to weight-loss, no doubt promoting his book - maybe, he doesn't believe that privately, but that makes him a hypocrite of sorts.
I think we can all agree that diet without exercise doesn't help re losing weight, with any diet.
As for the above comment re eating 2-3k cal leading to weight-gain on cooked zero-carb, I should add that even a small amount of cooked animal foods within the diet led to that weight-gain on my part(and greater fat-layers), it wasn't merely a question of the amounts of food involved. There are other possibilities:- for example, a few people may be hyper-sensitive to carbs, however raw, or some, like me, may well be hypersensitive to raw or cooked animal foods, which would lead to weight-gain above what would be expected re calories(1 of the points Aajonus makes is that toxins from processed diets often end up in the fat-cells, which would explain the weight-gain on my part).
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Well that's because your body chemistry is all fucked up. You can't be a couch potato and expect to have an athletic body. Both Art de Vany and Mark Sisson eat cooked animal products but have very lean muscular bodies. Exercise is very important. Funny how most people have no problem replicating what paleo man ate but somehow ignore that he was extremely active (hunting, lifting heavy things, running/sprinting).
Like I said, the issue had little to do with exercise. Indeed, exercising a lot at the time was only partially effective against my consumption of cooked animal foods(in other words, I had to do a hell of a lot more exercise than Art DeVany to get slim, and even then I would have to drastically starve myself). Simply put, it seems that for largely genetic reasons(my father and grandfather had the same sort of problem, in hindsight), I am less "attuned" to cooked animal foods so that I am more likely to store the toxins therefrom in my fat-cells thus leading to greater weight-gain, bigger potbelly etc.
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I think we can all agree that diet without exercise doesn't help re losing weight, with any diet.
I lost my weight without resorting to exercises.
Call me lazy.