Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet to Suit You => Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach => Topic started by: Sherri on April 03, 2010, 11:54:15 am
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Hello to you all. I'm new to this forum.
A few weeks ago, I decided to go zero carb because I'm hoping to get rid of some health problems. I found a good site that explained so much and I devoured it all, and then tried to join their forum.
I was refused. The reason given was that I'm allergic to some meats and that this diet wouldn't be do-able for me. Also, the comment was made that they aren't there to talk me into doing the diet and aren't open for debate on scientific data. I'm confused about that one, since I've been convinced for several weeks that going zero carb is the best thing anyone can do. I'm not even sure if my application was read through. Maybe the meat allergies was the main show stopper.
Anyway, I felt I could do it eating the two meats I'm not allergic to: turkey and fish.
Someone very kindly gave me the recipe for chicken pemmican made with coconut oil that I could switch for turkey meat instead, in order to get the right ratio of protein to fats. Someone else suggested I find rendered turkey fat and use that instead of the coconut oil, and I thought that was a great idea, too.
Someone else gave me the idea of cooking a whole turkey, making an all meat 'gravy' out of all the 'innards' by dehydrating them, blending them to dry powder and put into turkey broth and turkey fat, and eating a little of the gravy every time I ate some of the meat to add more nutrients.
Someone else gave me the idea of eating sardines because I would get bones and all the rest, and eating all of the fish whenever I could get whole fish.
I got so many great ideas for my limited circumstance that I was greatly encouraged and excited to do this. I've been hoping I can find something that heals a lot of my ailments, the food allergies especially. After a few years, I was hoping beef would be possible for me again.
But now, I'm a bit deflated. I am not experienced at this, and someone very experienced, who's posts I've admired very much for their knowledge, is telling me I probably can't do it.
Should I try it, or is limiting myself to two meats not going to work?
I would greatly appreciate opinions. Its a big thing to make this decision and ask my family to support it, if it is a failure from the start.
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I never heard of an all turkey and fish diet. I'm not a ZCer anyway. If you eat the innards, it may work. Why cook? Why coconut rather than animal? I wish you best of health.
Btw, do I know you by chance?
Anyway, I felt I could do it eating the two meats I'm not allergic to: turkey and fish.
Someone very kindly gave me the recipe for chicken pemmican made with coconut oil that I could switch for turkey meat instead, in order to get the right ratio of protein to fats. Someone else suggested I find rendered turkey fat and use that instead of the coconut oil, and I thought that was a great idea, too.
Someone else gave me the idea of cooking a whole turkey, making an all meat 'gravy' out of all the 'innards' by dehydrating them, blending them to dry powder and put into turkey broth and turkey fat, and eating a little of the gravy every time I ate some of the meat to add more nutrients.
Someone else gave me the idea of eating sardines because I would get bones and all the rest, and eating all of the fish whenever I could get whole fish.
Should I try it, or is limiting myself to two meats not going to work?
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Hi, RawZi,
No, I don't think I know you. I'm new to this forum, and don't usually have a ton of time to write on forums. I'm more of the silent type, unless I really feel like I have good advice to offer. Since I'm new to this and have only been reading for a few weeks, I don't really feel qualified to offer advice.
The reason for the coconut oil is because turkey is a low fat meat and to get the fat up to the right ratio, I would need to get it from something else. I'd rather use real turkey fat. Where I live, there are no butchers who chop turkey, so there wouldn't be fat I could buy from them. I've found two places online who advertise having rendered turkey fat; Hormel and Henningsen Foods, but they only sell it to restaurants and commercial businesses for making broths and soups. So, coconut oil is just to tide me through until I can find a supply of turkey fat.
I would need to add more fat to compensate for the low fat fish, too.
As far as cooking, I dehydrate more than actual cooking. The only recipes I've found for pemmican requires dehydrating. I'm open to any suggestions, though.
Thank you for your well wishes. I hope your food choices are going well for you.
**Modified due to the pressing of the save button too soon. Fingers don't obey****
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Sounds like you will struggle with turkey and fish, why not join the Dirty Carnivore forum? They cook their meat use recipes.
Red meat allergy is very rare. I've heard of people in a part of Sydney, Australia developing it after tick bites which are endemic to the area.
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Hello, wodgina,
Yes, I only know of one other person with a beef allergy. I am allergic to pork, beef, chicken, shellfish and most saltwater fish. I can eat turkey, some saltwater and most all freshwater fish.
With all the meats except pork, if feels like the inside skin of my stomach, and later, my intestines are burning. When I accidentally get any of those meats, I do a saltwater cleanse the next morning that pushes everything through my intestines, and the salt helps it to heal, so I don't go through days of burning.
With pork, I go into tachycardia, and my heartbeat goes too fast and irregular. I usually end up in a hospital. I feel that maybe one day the other allergies might go away, because with other food allergies, they are not always for life. Plus, I keep reading how people are restoring their health with a totally meat diet, and had a few hopes I could get rid of at least one allergy. I can't eat grains, onions, and tomatoes, either.
With pork, though, I'll never try eating it again to find out. I'll just do without it. With the other meats, I'll still try them out once a year and hope. It hurts, but it isn't life threatening.
I was told it is usually a protein in a food that causes a reaction. My allergy tests were done with proteins, and several different types of tests were used and then compared. However, I once got some pork lard mixed in refried beans and ended up in the hospital, so apparently even the fat bothers me. I had gotten accustomed to buying refried beans with olive oil, the very few times I ate beans over the previous year, and didn't realize it was ever made with pork lard.
I must research the tick idea. Thanks for passing it along. Do you know if there was a cure for that particular tick bite? I am in America, in Colorado, but we definitely do have ticks now and then, though not like Arkansas where I grew up. We got ticks there everytime we went camping, which was all summer, every summer!
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any idea what about turkey and salmon that you are not allergic to them?
i think you are the first person i've 'met' with more sensitivities than i have.
allergic to eggs too?
have you ever tried wild game? same allergic reactions?
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I have no idea why I can eat turkey and fish. It doesn't make sense to be allergic to chicken and not turkey, but none of it really makes sense.
As far as eggs, I'm allergic to the yolk, but not the egg white, which is backward, because more people are allergic to the whites than the yolks. But, perhaps that goes along with being allergic to chicken.
I've been tempted to eat buffalo, but I've heard most buffalo in the US have been bread with cows. I might give it a try, anyway. I can also get duck here, too, in restaurants, but not grocery stores. Deer is illegal to sell here, so I'd need to find someone who hunts. I'd like to give it all a try, anyway.
I think I'd still need to find a way to add fats to them since wild game is very lean, but it would be nice to taste something besides turkey and fish. I might cave in to the butter and coconut oil, even though I wanted to keep this pure meat.
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well, i don't tolerate much, but i do very well with bison/buffalo even when beef was a problem... no idea why...
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Ioanna, are you allergic to any other meats? It sounds like beef isn't a problem for you anymore? Did it go away after time? Sorry to ask so many question. I'm feeling nosy, now.
A friend once suggested to me that he felt I should eat things native to America, since I am of Native American descent. (Though my people drifted off from the Trail of Tears and settled in Arkansas and were never on a reservation.) He seemed to think that since cows, chickens and domesticated pigs weren't here 500 years ago, I shouldn't eat them anyway, and he has also encouraged me to try wild game. Turkey is native to America, as well as fish.
I'm not sure I believe his reasoning, though.
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I think I'll give buffalo a try, now, since you could do it even with a beef problem. I would only burn, anyway. I am leery of getting something that affects me like pork, so it makes me a weenie baby when it comes to trying something new.
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.... so it makes me a weenie baby when it comes to trying something new.
ha, sounds like me!... I'm afraid to try new things because if they don't work I am with terrible abdominal pains at best
maybe you should be sure that your buffalo/bison is 100% grass-fed, if possible? sometimes i have only access to grain-finished and i have done fine with that though.
also, fwiw, aging the meat works wonders for me, but dehydrating (even at 'raw' temps) was a disaster!
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Ioanna, are you allergic to any other meats? It sounds like beef isn't a problem for you anymore? Did it go away after time? Sorry to ask so many question. I'm feeling nosy, now.
i don't know that i'm allergic to meat?... i haven't had the inclination to try chicken, turkey, or pork raw. 4 months ago at the holidays i ate a couple of bites of cooked chicken breast (plain, 'organic') ... i had a stomach ache and then threw it up.. then i was mad at myself because it takes at least a week for my stomach to calm down again.
beef has not been a problem at all since i started aging it first. now it's perfect!
feel free to ask away! happy to help if i can :)
A friend once suggested to me that he felt I should eat things native to America, since I am of Native American descent. (Though my people drifted off from the Trail of Tears and settled in Arkansas and were never on a reservation.) He seemed to think that since cows, chickens and domesticated pigs weren't here 500 years ago, I shouldn't eat them anyway, and he has also encouraged me to try wild game. Turkey is native to America, as well as fish.
I'm not sure I believe his reasoning, though.
could be... i'm italian/greek, but haven't had success with seafood yet... then again, i don't have access to anything fresh either so maybe that's the problem?
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I have a problem with beef too, but buffalo is fine.
Like Ioanna, aging the meat can make it better for me.
I was thinking, what about duck fat and goose fat? How about turkey eggs or quail eggs?
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also, fwiw, aging the meat works wonders for me, but dehydrating (even at 'raw' temps) was a disaster!
What happend when you dehydrated the meat?
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Hello Sherri and welcome. :)
I'm sure with everyone's input we'll find a working diet for you that will help you regain your health.
I too have many food allergies. This had led me to a raw-carnivore diet which has suited me fine. I have problems (have never been tested I just have stomach pain/bloating/gas/mucus in my stools) with a couple of meats (lamb, bison, and chicken) but I do great with Beef and Deer. I also eat goat occasionally but I do notice slight problems if I overdo this so I make it a treat.
The reason I have found for my issues with commercial meats is their diet. I have allergies to corn and to many grains and this is the diet of pretty much all meat you can buy at a supermarket. I can tell in minutes if an animal was fed grains just by my body's reactions to it (immediate sore throat, runny nose, etc.). Grass-fed and grass-finished beef does not have this effect on me. Wild game (wild deer at this point) doesn't eat commercial grains as the base of it's diet (they might eat it here or there if they find some outside) so doesn't effect me either.
Have you ever tried truly grass-fed and grass-finished meats to see if they give you the same reaction? The same with wild deer meat (watch out; they do occasionally sell farmed deer)?
May I ask why you feel the need/desire to eat just meat (the specific health problems)? Do you have problems with vegetation? I'm allergic to most fruits and veggies hence why I'm carnivorous.
The reason I ask is that when one is eating carnivore a large percentage of one's dietary calories are from fat. The two proteins you know you do well with tend to run very lean which will make it harder to eat carnivorously as you've no doubt come across. It won't be impossible it'll just take some creativity. ;)
Which forum did you try to join and got rejected from? I have a hard time believing anyone would be that insensitive to someone else in need but if it's who I think it is it doesn't surprise me.
Lastly, since no one touched on it; Are you ok with the idea of raw food, meat/fat especially, which we adhere to on this site? My opinion is that a cooked carnivorous diet, while possible in the short-term, will be damaging in the long term. Raw-carnivorous, with an emphasis on quality fat (and meat) as well as a variety of organs, is much more sustainable.
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I don't think it's even possible to be allergic to raw meat or raw fruit/veg for that matter..
Sounds like you have chrons disease and when you eat meat and the strong stomach acids come to break it down, your gut feels the burn probably because you have stomach sores or something from chrons. Thats my theory atleast
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Have you tried eating fresh raw meat? Sometimes an allergy is only towards the cooked/processed form of a food. (But not always!)
Did you have these allergies since birth? Or did you develop them later on in life? That might give a clue to where they came from.
I think that the coconut oil would be a good idea for you, because it'll partially replace the saturated fat that normally comes from red meat on a carnivorous diet. (Turkey and fish are both low in saturated fat relative to red meat).
In one of Aajonus' workshops, someone had an allergy to raw onions. Aajonus suggested blending the onions with raw unsalted cheese, and maybe also something else (I forget what it was). I know that many people here are skeptical of Aajonus, but it won't hurt to ask him for advice. There's an upcoming radio interview with him (http://wewant2live.blogspot.com/), so you could ask him there.
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No person should be 'allergic' to good fresh raw meat alongside fat. You shouldn't be any exception. All you need to do is to take it slowly and let your body, including your digestive system, heal. You can just have smaller amounts of the raw meat/fat at first, and without the things which are really causing the problems you will soon be able to tolerate more and more.
As long as you've never had any organs removed..?
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I don't think it's even possible to be allergic to raw meat or raw fruit/veg for that matter..
You should do a bit more reading up on the subject. Not only is it possible it's getting more common. ;)
I think that the coconut oil would be a good idea for you, because it'll partially replace the saturated fat that normally comes from red meat on a carnivorous diet. (Turkey and fish are both low in saturated fat relative to red meat).
I've got concerns about using coconut oil in any diet but especially as the basis of your calories.
First, coconut oil and cream seem to give a large percentage of us on this board stomach distress in one way or another. As our diets are low in toxic intake we're a good sounding board for good vs. bad foods.
Second, coconut is a pretty common allergen so if she's developed allergies to other things it's somewhat likely she'll have or get problems with coconut.
Third, commercially available coconut oil is generally heated.
No person should be 'allergic' to good fresh raw meat alongside fat. You shouldn't be any exception. All you need to do is to take it slowly and let your body, including your digestive system, heal. You can just have smaller amounts of the raw meat/fat at first, and without the things which are really causing the problems you will soon be able to tolerate more and more.
As long as you've never had any organs removed..?
Allergies are not that simple. Once your body decides a protein string, etc. is a foreign invader it will attack it each time it sees it. Yes, allergies do resolve themselves sometimes, typically on a 7 year cycle, but it's almost always childhood allergies disappearing as you transition into adulthood.
If a leaky gut is exacerbating the circumstances that can be healed over time but sometimes the body has decided it won't stand for X, Y, or Z and it doesn't go away.
Thankfully Sherri's symptoms don't sound too overwhelming (hey, no anaphylaxis) so hopefully with a healing diet she'll recover most, if not all, of the way.
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I don't think it's even possible to be allergic to raw meat or raw fruit/veg for that matter..
It is possible. Some people who are hypersensitive to grains(coeliacs etc.) can get reactions from raw grainfed meats.
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I've got concerns about using coconut oil in any diet but especially as the basis of your calories.
First, coconut oil and cream seem to give a large percentage of us on this board stomach distress in one way or another. As our diets are low in toxic intake we're a good sounding board for good vs. bad foods.
Second, coconut is a pretty common allergen so if she's developed allergies to other things it's somewhat likely she'll have or get problems with coconut.
Third, commercially available coconut oil is generally heated.
I agree... I've not done well with it even in small amounts.
No person should be 'allergic' to good fresh raw meat alongside fat. You shouldn't be any exception.
Who are YOU??
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He's right... nobody should be allergic to that... if I had my say, nobody would be allergic to anything haha
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Dr. Kurt Harris suggested that drying meats like beef will reduce their allergenic potential. To get enough fat on ZC with just turkey and fish for meats you will probably have to include plant fats like coconut oil, avocado oil, etc.
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Wow, so many replies since I went to bed last night!
Ioanna:
I'll try aging the meat and see how it goes. In Colorado, it is fairly easy to find completely grass fed bison and beef, so I'll begin with that. Do you know what about dehydrating the meat bothers you? Maybe just the lack of water makes it harder to digest?
I really do doubt the theory of Native Americans needing to only eat things native to America because if it were true, there would be a lot of Native Americans allergic to those European meats, too, and I haven't heard of any of them being in that situation.
RawZi:
Aging meat helped you as well? I definitely must try it. As far as the fats, I had much rather get animal fats to use. I haven't found a way to get those fats around where I live, but I haven't really looked, either. I assumed since deer was illegal to sell, I probably couldn't find any other wild meats and fats to buy. **Note** I just did a little research and apparently wild game sales restrictions are state by state, so perhaps I can find it in some states. I didn't know that.
djr_81:
Before I knew the meat allergies were making me so sick, and I was still eating it, I probably got a 50/50 percent of grass to grain fed. Whole foods is in the next town over, in Boulder, so I would get my grass fed meats there and from an organic farm, but during the holes between, I would get them from a grocery store. I'm going to try some grass fed aged beef to see what happens.
My meat-only idea sort of began over time. I haven't eaten starchy foods in years because of an insulin issue, and I've never eaten sweets. I just don't have the appetite for them, nor do I like the way they make me feel. As I was cutting more and more out, a friend told me I was basically doing Atkins induction, so I read up on that and did it for about two weeks.
I started cutting out even more carbs and felt better, but I was still using butter and coconut oil for the fats because I couldn't get enough fats from the meat.
At that point, everyone was telling me how unhealthy this was for me, and my extended family disapproved very much and let me know I was setting a bad example for my kids, but how can something that makes you feel so much better be unhealthy?
Then I started wondering if anyone can live on meat-only. Until I googled it a few weeks ago, I had never heard of the concept in any context except it being unhealthy. I was very surprised to find so many people doing it.
Almost everything I read was from www.zeroinginonhealth.com, and there were so many stories of health improvement. Some of the people there eat pemmican only, and I had intended to do that for the first month using turkey, but didn't know if turkey would work or not. I had hoped to join the forum to ask advice of the experienced people.
This is the answer I received:
"Hi, Sherri. Thanks for your responses.
From reading your answers, it's quite clear that you do not fit our qualifications for membership in our forum. The fact that you have allergies to the very meats that we eat makes this even more difficult. I realize you have questions and I'm sure they are very good questions but this is not a road that we wish to travel.
ZC is not something that we wish to talk you into. ZC is something that people are encouraged to try and once their health improves, ZC sells itself. We're not in the business of converting others through scientific banter and the like. Sure, we do examine studies and look at different sources, but it's not so much for the purpose of convincing and converting others. We offer a simple message and encourage others to try it. If it works, then well and we like to continue that journey with the person. If not, we encourage them to move on with our best wishes.
So from what you've written, this would not work. I wish you well working out your health issues and you're certainly encouraged to read as a guest and hopefully you can find many of the answers to your questions because I'm sure they've been asked and answered.
Best regards,"
I'm not sure why he thought he'd need to talk me into it or that I was wanting to debate anything. I had already decided to do it, but after reading the letter, I had doubts of whether it would be possible at all. Maybe some people have a fear of people arguing with them and become paranoid about it? I went over my application several times to see exactly what sentence gave him the idea I wanted to argue theories, but couldn't find anything.
I am okay with eating raw meat, but i must admit I didn't know you COULD safely eat raw meat until yesterday. When I read "Raw Paleo" I thought it meant something like 'strict' or "down-n-dirty dedicated". I didn't know you literally meant raw until after I had posted and read a few other posts. (Okay, I'm an idiot)
I just want to be healthy. If raw does it, I'm all for it. I need to find out how to safely do it. I also need to solve my fat problem, but if I can eat aged beef or buffalo, it would be solved.
I do love the organ meats. My father always made us eat all the parts of the animals he killed, but it was cooked.
ForTheHunt:
I only know what the allergy tests showed. My blood reacts to it, and supposedly it was all grass fed meats in order to keep it as pure as possible. When I developed whole body shakes, we thought I might have developed early Parkinsons and paid $20,000 to see a doctor in New York. I had read a book of his and felt he was more up to date on research than all the other quack traditional doctors I had been seeing. So, I took his word on having the allergies, and when I stopped eating the meats, I stopped with the stomach burning, the cerebral swelling and the shakes after a few months. Now, if I accidentally get some, it isn't enough to cause the brain swelling or the shakes; I need to eat those meats over time to get to that point.
I don't know a lot about chrons. I'll check into it, though. I never discount anything.
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I've only tried straight coconut oil once, and it was the virgin supposedly most organic you can get. A friend told me to make it simple and take a tablespoon out of the jar. I only did it once, and it gave me indigestion. (I think I need to fire all my friends, don't I?) Up until then, I had just used maybe a teaspoon here and there for cooking.
HOWEVER, I only did it once and need to try it again to see for sure. I have a bad habit of wanting things to work out, or knowing for sure this next new thing is going to make me well, and I put blinders on. I'm working on that bad habit.
PaleoPhil, does drying meats predigest it a little? I haven't tried dried meats, but am willing to try them. The pemmican recipe someone sent me used dehydrated raw meat as the protein part.
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Dr. Kurt Harris suggested that drying meats like beef will reduce their allergenic potential. To get enough fat on ZC with just turkey and fish for meats you will probably have to include plant fats like coconut oil, avocado oil, etc.
Yet, some RVAFers react to even the simplest processing, such as drying/making jerky. As for ZC, for obvious reasons, one would have to include animal fats with turkey and fish, not plant-fats. I once tried a 100% raw (widlcaught) seafood diet and got some RB -related symptoms, I think.
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Is dehydrating considered cooking? It seems to me that if you are eating jerky, you need to be munching on a blob of fat, too? 70 percent fat to 30 percent protein is what I'm aiming for.
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Is dehydrating considered cooking? It seems to me that if you are eating jerky, you need to be munching on a blob of fat, too? 70 percent fat to 30 percent protein is what I'm aiming for.
Dehydrating is considered cooking if the temperature goes above 104 degrees fahrenheit(40 degrees celsius). Much drying occurs at mostly lower temperatures than 40/104, but some is at 110 degrees fahrenheit or above.
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TylerDurden:
My pemmican recipe has me keeping the meat below 104 degrees, so that'll be a good start to raw. I've also been reading a lot of the other posts that have helped me out a lot.
You've all given me so many things to try in just one day. I'm amazed. I really do think each day is going to be different for me now than I've previously lived.
This week, I'm going to find grass fed bison and try it straight out, then try it aged, and I'm going to try grass fed beef aged. Give me a week and I'll report back on how things have worked out.
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Just thought to add a minor caveat:- even if the meat in the pemmican is raw, if the addedfat in the pemmican is heated above 104 degrees fahrenheit, then that pemmican cannot really be considered to be raw.
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Ah, okay. I just looked up tallow and it liquefies at 40C, which puts it at exactly at 104 degrees. All the fats are different, though, so it would depend on which one I can eventually eat.
Thank you. I'll definitely keep that in mind. I hadn't thought of the fat possibly going into the cooking range.
I do have another question. My mother-in-law is insisting i need to soak raw meat in water with a few drops of iodine for 10 minutes before eating it raw to kill the bacteria on the outside without cooking it.
Would the iodine soak into the meat and kill the good bacteria inside?
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....I'm not sure why he thought he'd need to talk me into it or that I was wanting to debate anything.
That forum was designed from the start as a place for ZCers to find support, not for debating it or questioning it. Your reporting being allergic to meats is probably viewed as being potentially too negative about meats to allow on the forum. I don't favor their forum approach, since I find it too stifling, though I recognize their right to take that approach.
I am okay with eating raw meat, but i must admit I didn't know you COULD safely eat raw meat until yesterday. When I read "Raw Paleo" I thought it meant something like 'strict' or "down-n-dirty dedicated". I didn't know you literally meant raw until after I had posted and read a few other posts. (Okay, I'm an idiot)
LOL. I had a similar experience. The first time I saw the term "high raw" on a raw diet forum I thought it was referring to high raw meat (meaning fermented/aged/rotted). It turned out to mean trying to eat 100% raw vegan. I don't know why some people there act as if the term "raw" necessarily means vegan, especially considering that there are other members there like me who eat raw meat/fish, eggs, etc.
I only know what the allergy tests showed. My blood reacts to it, and supposedly it was all grass fed meats in order to keep it as pure as possible.
I don't know whether it will be applicable to you, but my blood test showed moderate to high levels of antibodies to some meats, but I never noticed any increased symptoms from eating them, or decreased when I cut them out, so I resumed eating them and have experienced numerous benefits as a result. However, I didn't have a problem with brain swelling, so you will of course have to proceed more cautiously than I had to.
When I developed whole body shakes, we thought I might have developed early Parkinsons and paid $20,000 to see a doctor in New York. I had read a book of his and felt he was more up to date on research than all the other quack traditional doctors I had been seeing.
What doctor was this?
I've only tried straight coconut oil once, and it was the virgin supposedly most organic you can get. A friend told me to make it simple and take a tablespoon out of the jar. I only did it once, and it gave me indigestion. (I think I need to fire all my friends, don't I?) Up until then, I had just used maybe a teaspoon here and there for cooking.
You may be sensitive to medium chain triglycerides the way I appear to be. Because they are easily and rapidly digested, in sensitive people MCTs can overwhelm the system and cause nausea and even vomiting and diarrhea in severe cases. I tried to get gradually adjusted to coconut oil but instead found that it was becoming more nauseating and distasteful to me over time. Putting it in pemmican resulted in a product that I found simply awful tasting and nauseated me even more, also causing upset stomach and malaise for most of a day. I haven't been able to stomach even a teaspoonful of coconut oil ever since, though I don't rule out some day being able to eat some of it again. I find I do much better on the long chain triglycerides in animal body fats (like air-dried 100% grassfed suet), which digest more slowly.
PaleoPhil, does drying meats predigest it a little?
Yes, reportedly so, though they also make it tougher to chew, so sometimes bits go through me mostly undigested. Some people find pemmican easier to digest because the jerky is also broken down into shreds or a powder. Others find the high levels of saturated fat in pemmican, suet, tallow, etc. to be difficult to digest. I had some trouble digesting even animal body fats at first myself, but it has improved much better for me than MCT digestion did.
The pemmican recipe someone sent me used dehydrated raw meat as the protein part.
I sometimes eat pemmican for convenience or as a treat and have had no ill effects from it (though it doesn't give me quite as much of a feeling of well being as raw 100% grassfed meat and fat do), but pemmican is not generally highly regarded here, as it is not truly raw, except by William who reports great benefits from it and claims it is raw by his standards that I don't understand.
As always on any of this YMMV (your mileage may vary).
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Ah, okay. I just looked up tallow and it liquefies at 40C, which puts it at exactly at 104 degrees. All the fats are different, though, so it would depend on which one I can eventually eat.
During production, tallow is most likely heated over 100°C, so it's not raw, unfortunately.
I do have another question. My mother-in-law is insisting i need to soak raw meat in water with a few drops of iodine for 10 minutes before eating it raw to kill the bacteria on the outside without cooking it.
Would the iodine soak into the meat and kill the good bacteria inside?
Don't do that. You want the bacteria in and on the meat. Both are 'good.'
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PaleoPhil:
It turned out well that I didn't get accepted to their forum. It would be too stifling for me as well, and perhaps I wouldn't have found this place.
I think I'll skip the coconut oil, too, and the pemmican for now. The pemmican was attractive to me because it doesn't spoil and I can take it anywhere, even camping for a week, without worrying about food preservation or a refrigerator, and not be limited to the canned things the rest of the campers take. I also thought it would be good to begin things with, to keep me out of the kitchen in case I crave anything else that might be in the kitchen.
My New York doctor was Dr. Eric Braverman, with PathMed. He does the most thorough exam I'm ever had and insists it all must be done before he can make a diagnosis. He believes when doctors ordered a few tests based on a few symptoms, they don't get the whole picture and miss things, and I certainly agree. He found things wrong with me I would never have considered and ultrasounded every body part connected to me. He had several doctors working beneath him, and I went through all of them before getting to him for all the final results.
One of the doctors believed a lot of allergies come from not having the right bacterias in the gut, and that we don't know enough about them to determine all the ones we need or what happens when one is missing. The bacterias you buy at health food stores are only the basic ones we know.
The more I read about eating raw meat, the more it sounds like more bacterias are introduced that perhaps I'm missing.
I'm glad I went for a year, but Dr. Braverman is very expensive and a year was all I could do.
Thanks for the iodine answer. Probably I need to not tell my extended family and friends anymore what I'm doing. I know they mean well and think I'm trying to kill myself with e. coli, but maybe they don't need to know about it.
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I'm allergic to some meats
Dr. Harris of http://www.paleonu.com/ found an allergen (something to do with albumin) in beef blood; this is neutralized by drying or cooking.
There seem to be a lot of things that can trigger allergic reactions; the blood might be what you react to. It might also be something in the kind of beef found in food stores. Grass-finished from a farmer works for most of us here.
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William,
That gives me a lot to experiment with. I'm going to add drying the beef in addition to aging it this week. And doing the same with buffalo. Grass-fed is fairly easy for me to get here, although wild game besides buffalo isn't. I've noticed some online places with wild game, though.
It will be interesting to see if one of them works. I am hoping beyond hope.
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I'd like to give my sympathies about ZIOH. They can be a bit bull-headed (trying to be diplomatic here) over there and while it saddens me that you were treated that way when just looking for help it's not surprising. On the bright side you managed to find us here which may be more fortuitous than you realized; while many others eat in a carnivorous manner to attain or maintain a body shape/size (and the health benefits are a plus) most of us here eat raw carnivorous primarily as a means to recover and maintain health. :)
The more I read about eating raw meat, the more it sounds like more bacterias are introduced that perhaps I'm missing.
Quite a few of us on the forum supplement with "probiotics", if you will, that we make ourselves. If you look in the culinary section you can read up on "High meats" which you may find helpful in your re-balancing of gut flora.
Granted, the thought of, essentially, controlled rotting and then ingestion of meat sounds both dangerous and crazy but it does work. The probiotics sold in stores do work, in varying degrees by manufacturer, but it's all for grains. By making high meat we get bacteria specific to aid in the digestion of meat which it sounds like you might need. :)
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William: I thought you couldn't get hold of Grass-finished beef?
Sherri: On ZIOH, before you apply there's a section you have to read first. It says that to become a member you should already have started eating ZC. As a non-member you're able to look at all the information there, which is arranged in an easy format to work through, but they don't consider you can contribute anything valuable to a ZC forum when you've not even started it. I think that's the idea. Nor can they contribute anything to you if you're not eating the same way as them.
Tyler: What's RB s?
Sherri: If you thought that the problem was in the blood, and that drying may reduce it, what would be the benefit of drying the fat?
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Dr. Harris of http://www.paleonu.com/ found an allergen (something to do with albumin) in beef blood; this is neutralized by drying or cooking.
There seem to be a lot of things that can trigger allergic reactions; the blood might be what you react to. ...
I used to test in the office allergic to albumin, to beef blood, to my own blood, to my own saliva, to many of my body tissues etc. Eating raw meat helped me get over that. I still get a reaction to my saliva occasionally, if I eat something not as natural.
As a child, it was very hard to eat what I was compelled to eat. I wound up in the emergency room a bunch of times. They'd ex-ray my throat and stick their hands down my throat, but never found anything in there but my throat. The fact it got generally swollen too much and I couldn't swallow and felt so nauseas didn't phase them.
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Tyler: What's RB s?
The "s" was a misprint. I meant "RB" as in rabbit-starvation"-like symptoms. At the time, I was eating just 100% raw seafood, no plant foods or whatever.
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...The more I read about eating raw meat, the more it sounds like more bacterias are introduced that perhaps I'm missing.
Correct. Read what you can about the hygiene hypothesis and high meat, stink fish, etc.
I'm glad I went for a year, but Dr. Braverman is very expensive and a year was all I could do.
I see that he apparently favors legumes, low-fat and cooked foods in his recommended diet. By coming here, you apparently think he may not be right about which foods are optimal. If he could be wrong about that, he could also be wrong about you having to avoid most meats, at least in the longer run.
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Sorry, I went away for spring break, then caught a really bad cold when I got back. With my other family memebers, this cold has lasted anywhere from 3 weeks to a month.
I really have appreciated all the helpful advice.
So far, I've found I can eat buffalo meat! I'm so excited. Thank you, Ioanna. I would have been too chicken to try it if it hadn't worked for you first.
djr_81:
Thank you for the warm welcome. I do appreciate it. I plan on checking out the homemade probiotics page; I DO think I will benefit from it. Aging meats doesn't sound appetizing at the moment, but it seems as though most people here end up liking raw and aged better than cooked after a while. I'm lucky in that I had a dad who made me eat things I eventually liked when I was growing up, and it made me open to anything. I'm also searching for 'health' and willl do what it takes. (Doesn't mean I won't gag a time or two, though.)
miles:
Can you dry the fat part or is it only the lean that can be dehydrated?
RawZi:
I had the same problem with the doctors. One doctor stuck his finger down my throat and it felt as though the back of my thoat was pushing forward with a huge, hard lump. THe only remark he made was something to the effect that the lump must not be cancer because it came and went. It was the way my throat closed when I got something allergic, which I didn't know at the time, but all he could relate a lump to was cancer.
PaleoPhil:
Regarding Dr. Braverman and diet, you are correct. In the beginning, I felt soooo much better cutting out the allergen foods he found. About a year later, I felt the low-fat diet wasn't working for me. I felt more and more tired. I think maybe I'm one of the people who processes energy best from fats.
He did want me to eat the meats I could and wasn't advocating vegetarianism. The different brain chemicals need different amino acids in order to be produced, and our glands must also have different ones to produce hormones. He did feel meat would supply them best.
When I get over this grungy cold, I'll try some aged raw beef.
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Raw grassfed meats and/or animal fats should help you get over the cold. It's not only the best food, it's some of the best medicine.