Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Syrious on April 07, 2010, 02:38:13 am
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Hey all
When I was a child back in Syria my grandfather, who grew up in the isolated Syrian country side and was later a Pediatrician trained in West Germany, used to get us raw chicken liver. They were simply amazing. Probably the best thing ever to this day. We trusted him as he was very knowledgeable and he used to get the livers from freshly slain chickens, cut off some pieces with a knife and done.. Unfortunately, he left us very unexpectedly a few years back and to this day I feel the need to eat raw chicken liver again because it was just very good, but also probably to bring back some memories.
So I look on the internet and whenever raw chicken liver is mentioned, it's to ask if they are safe for cats and dogs! I mean I understand that chicken nowadays might have more parasites than chicken 15-20 years ago, but is it really that off from North American culture? (I'm in Canada now).
Luckily I found you guys! and you are probably the only ones who can help me understand how to correctly get and eat raw chicken liver.. and possibly get into the raw meat business because it sounds very interesting and natural to me. I'm a complete newbie and need to read a lot first, but thought i would drop this thread first to get a feel of how things are and maybe a quick and dirty answer to my question.
thanks a lot!
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Well, I think raw liver is a Southern-US dish. At least, I recall Boss Hogg from the Dukes of Hazzard TV series routinely eating raw liver. And the WAPF mention it as a standard recipe, I think(?). Of course, I doubt raw liver is much consumed these days, given the prevalence of fast-food everywhere.
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I live in the US and find chicken liver at whole foods. Do they have whole foods somewhere in Canada near you? As for the cat food thing, for some reason in our country people kind of look down on eating organ meats and make it feel like its not even "human grade" food and label it as cat food. Aother good example of this is marrow bones. They are almost always labeled dog bones.
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Well, I think raw liver is a Southern-US dish. At least, I recall Boss Hogg from the Dukes of Hazzard Tv series routienly eating raw liver.
No, that was just to make him seem like more of a villain. Meat/fish/shellfish are nearly always heavily cooked in traditional Southern cooking, particularly as you go farther into the Deep South. :)
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Stanley bass eats it
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Aother good example of this is marrow bones. They are almost always labeled dog bones.
What do the dogs do with these bones? Do they just take out the marrow from the already available holes like us?
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What do the dogs do with these bones? Do they just take out the marrow from the already available holes like us?
They lick it until they get the marrow out and then they chew on the bones for fun (i give them to my dogs just because they love them). To be honest it makes no sense anyway. IMO the reason humans evolved to eat meat was originally becuase we were the only animals that could take large animal bones and break them open to get to the marrow. Dogs can't do this so technically its not very dog paleo to eat marrow.
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I live in the US and find chicken liver at whole foods. Do they have whole foods somewhere in Canada near you? As for the cat food thing, for some reason in our country people kind of look down on eating organ meats and make it feel like its not even "human grade" food and label it as cat food. Aother good example of this is marrow bones. They are almost always labeled dog bones.
At the WF by me, there are never chicken livers. There are calf, but not always good quality. The beef liver there is frozen. There is no more liver.
There is beef shank 100% grassfed that has some marrow. There's veal ossobucco that has good marrow. There are longer beef marrow bones, but they're frozen and not grassfed (and not labeled for dogs I think havent picked any up).
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Unfortunately not all whole foods stock the same food but I would try to go to whole foods to check just incase.
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They lick it until they get the marrow out and then they chew on the bones for fun (i give them to my dogs just because they love them). To be honest it makes no sense anyway. IMO the reason humans evolved to eat meat was originally becuase we were the only animals that could take large animal bones and break them open to get to the marrow. Dogs can't do this so technically its not very dog paleo to eat marrow.
huh? how about a bear? also, cows weren't around in paleo times either, but many other critters were that have smaller bones. Apparently a Great Dane can chew up an entire chicken leg in 10 seconds without waste. Do you mean as far as tools to open large bones? what did they eat befor they evolved?
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huh? how about a bear? also, cows weren't around in paleo times either, but many other critters were that have smaller bones. Apparently a Great Dane can chew up an entire chicken leg in 10 seconds without waste. Do you mean as far as tools to open large bones? what did they eat befor they evolved?
The hypothesis is that when a cheetah or tiger or any carnivore would kill large game (doesn’t need to be a cow) they would eat as much as they could. The remains would be a little flesh and some bones. Since they have no tools for getting to the thick bones of larger animal they would simply leave it there. We would then collect the bones and using stone tools would crack open the bones and eat the marrow. This is also why we were able to develop larger brains. Humans as well as other animals produce EFA's (Essential Fatty Acids) which are required by our bodies to build our brains and other parts of our body. However production of EFA's for any animal is a very time consuming process. When we started eating marrow (which is full of EFA's) and animals brains which were also enclosed by bones we no longer needed to produce our own EFA's we got them directly from our diet. Before we started eating marrow we ate basically what a chimp eats today which is a mostly vegetarian diet but if the opportunity for meat or eggs or insects comes up they would eat them right away. If another chimp were to die for some reasons the chimps would consume the carcass. Some people think we as a species should not be eating meat and that we are not adapted to it because we don't have the same digestive system as carnivores. What they fail to realize is that our digestive tract does not resemble an herbivores digestive tract either and that we have been consuming meat for over 2.5 million years which is plenty of time to have adapted to it. The only primate that resembles our digestive tract is called the capuchin monkey and their diet consists of 50% flesh and 50% plant matter.
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No, that was just to make him seem like more of a villain. Meat/fish/shellfish are nearly always heavily cooked in traditional Southern cooking, particularly as you go farther into the Deep South. :)
Interesting. By the way, what exactly constitutes the "Deep South". I know that the South in general is considered, in modern times, to be those States which fought against the Federal State in the US Civil War(and maybe 1 or 2 states that didn't revolt like West Virginia?). But what states(or regions) constitute the "Deep South"?
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The hypothesis is that when a cheetah or tiger or any carnivore would kill large game (doesn’t need to be a cow) they would eat as much as they could. The remains would be a little flesh and some bones. Since they have no tools for getting to the thick bones of larger animal they would simply leave it there.
Thanks for the response, but wouldn't they have already had somewhat more evolved brains in order to use tools, and to know that the marrow was specifically useful?
I think you might need to check your facts on other animals in regards to eating larger and smaller fauna, as many other animals consume bones, including dogs/wolves, that was my main point.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/1382408
Interesting. By the way, what exactly constitutes the "Deep South".
I think this is more a terminology that has to do with the more backward (less cosmo) a place is rather than its location. There might be some 'deep south' in South Carolina, but not in Pensacola Florida or even Savannah Georgia.
geographical it would be Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, and South Carolina. and Perhaps Texas and Florida.
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humans evolved to eat meat was originally becuase we were the only animals that could take large animal bones and break them open to get to the marrow.
Birds too can carry the bones by using their talons and fly it high over rocky mountains, intentionally drop the bones, and fly down and eat the marrow.
Every animal has to try to use what they have, to get done what they need to.
Eating chickens and chicken liver would have been a breeze for them. Did chickens exist then?
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Thanks for the response, but wouldn't they have already had somewhat more evolved brains in order to use tools, and to know that the marrow was specifically useful?
I think you might need to check your facts on other animals in regards to eating larger and smaller fauna, as many other animals consume bones, including dogs/wolves, that was my main point.
Your article just answered you own question. "Bones were thought only to be consumed when prey are small." Just like I said "larger animals." As for getting my facts straight, I took anthropology classes and my teacher keeps very up to date with all the anthropological news. And yes we did already have larger brains but they were still only about a little larger than a 1/3 of our current brain size.
Birds too can carry the bones by using their talons and fly it high over rocky mountains, intentionally drop the bones, and fly down and eat the marrow.
Every animal has to try to use what they have, to get done what they need to.
Eating chickens and chicken liver would have been a breeze for them. Did chickens exist then?
Very interesting ive never heard of this but it makes sense.
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Interesting. By the way, what exactly constitutes the "Deep South". I know that the South in general is considered, in modern times, to be those States which fought against the Federal State in the US Civil War(and maybe 1 or 2 states that didn't revolt like West Virginia?). But what states(or regions) constitute the "Deep South"?
South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and parts of Tennessee, Arkansas, Texas, and Florida. Florida was very Deep South culturally until Northerners started retiring there.
Let me add an exception to the "Southerners are less likely to eat raw/rare meats than Northerners" rule. Northerners tend to like their steaks EXTREMELY well-done, Southerners less so. As far as organ meats, I think both cultures treat them about the same. However, deep-frying is much more popular in the South, which is a big part of why (I think) the South has a much higher incidence of strokes.
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Your article just answered you own question. "Bones were thought only to be consumed when prey are small." Just like I said "larger animals." As for getting my facts straight, I took anthropology classes and my teacher keeps very up to date with all the anthropological news. And yes we did already have larger brains but they were still only about a little larger than a 1/3 of our current brain size.
It says cheetah's prefer to stalk prey smaller than 60 kg, that they consumed much of the vertebrae and more of 30-50 kg, and that they had no problems crushing bones. They eat the entireity of ~10 kg animals, getting plenty of fatty acids.
I agree that humans probably scavenged bones, but plenty of other species eat bones, break bones and eat marrow and never 'evolved'. hyenas also have the ability to split bones, and scavenge as well as hunt. The ancestor of hyena, called Pachycrocuta, is thought to weight 200 kg and was able to split the bones of an elephant. The problem with anthropology, and most evolution theories is that it seeks out information to prove what it already believes, even amongst totally contradicting evidence, even in the fossil record.
heres a polar bear scavenging a beluga whale
http://www.flickr.com/photos/80079525@N00/310999010/
especially if you are talking prehistorically,many animals ould have the ability to crush bones and eat marrow of large animals, and others eat large amounts of smaller bones whole and have never attained the mental faculty of even the most vegetarian of chimps.
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First of all I was using a cheetah as an example...theres plenty of carnivores out there. Im not saying that this was originally a large portion of our diets but over time we did learn how to get more bones and eventually we learned how to hunt. Anyway's its just a theory...You can find holes in any theory.