Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Coatue on June 27, 2010, 07:28:56 pm
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So a few days ago I made the mistake of combining raw chunks of beef and cooked sausage in my stomach. For the last 2 days i have felt pain in my stomach and occasionally get the runs. It seems to feel better when I eat, which for the last 2 days has been strictly (at separate times of the day) raw egg yolks, some raw beef, yogurt, and some bananas. I took some pepto as well. But a little bit after I eat, I begin to acquire gurgling noises in my stomach, followed by a bloating feeling and pain. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to remedy this or will go away on its own? Could it possibly be a parasite? If it was, how does one get rid of a parasite?
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That sucks. Today my tummy is not 100% because of those Thai tamarinds I tried. I'm not having them again.
It really depends on the pain you are having and the things you may wish to try.
Things I've tried:
- fasting
- eating raw zero carb
- eating fatty roasted pork
If something seems stuck in your gut, there's good old castor oil.
My wife likes zapping with a hulda clark type zapper. If it is parasite related, we have herbal parasite cleansers from www.barefootherbalistmh.com
If you are constipated, a colon cleanser will do you good... but castor oil should do the same thing.
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Can someone explain to me why mixing raw and cooked meat is bad?
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One reason is the raw meat is not constipating. Combining those two could be confusing to your digestion. Your digestive system recognizes it's getting great raw meat, and maybe you'll detox (the sausage). Also the cooked sausage will be good material to encourage detox "caused" by microbes. There's so many reasons I don't think it's good to combine the two, but there's a start. If you have a choice of all cooked, or cooked sausage and raw meat, for me, the healthier choice would be to include the raw.
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Dr. Henry Bieler says we should not embarass our digestive systems by eating a combination of animal meats.
Just eat one kind of meat at a time.
Sequential eating.
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One reason is the raw meat is not constipating. Combining those two could be confusing to your digestion. Your digestive system recognizes it's getting great raw meat, and maybe you'll detox (the sausage). Also the cooked sausage will be good material to encourage detox "caused" by microbes. There's so many reasons I don't think it's good to combine the two, but there's a start. If you have a choice of all cooked, or cooked sausage and raw meat, for me, the healthier choice would be to include the raw.
What about people ordering medium-rare beef in restaurants ?
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When I started eating raw, I always ate some meat raw and the rest cooked. Pretty much with every meal. It never seems to have caused me problems, though I should mention that I also ate other cooked foods with it like rice and vegetables, also some raw pickled vegetables.
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What about people ordering medium-rare beef in restaurants ?
I don't know. I guess many people do well with that. I've never done well with medium rare beef, bison or buffalo. They just make me sick no matter how small portion/bite I tried.
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What about people ordering medium-rare beef in restaurants ?
I eat rare (blue) steaks in restaurants at times.
I never felt sick from that. -\
But my stomach really is NOT sensitive.. ;) I think I could maybe digest stones.. -d
Inger
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Dr. Henry Bieler says we should not embarass our digestive systems by eating a combination of animal meats.
Just eat one kind of meat at a time.
Sequential eating.
if you think about it - humans never used to combine foods while they were hunters / gatherers. it is only when you have a 20 cubic foot refrigerator with 50 different foods in it that you start to combine them in meals. if you're on foot all day and you catch an animal - what are you going to combine it with ?
hm ...
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I find food combining necessary. Eating a food by itself usually means it will irritate my stomach and not digest properly. An intact stomach is required to accept a food by itself, let alone digest it.
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lulwut?
If the food you're eating in unpleasant, maybe you just shouldn't be eating it...?
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This goes for almost every food, if it's not in a mix with other food, I can't digest it correctly.
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Then maybe almost every food is something you shouldn't be eating...
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Maybe I shouldn't eat anything then.
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Well i hear what you're saying Moon. I think SOME foods might be quite hard on their own. For example nuts. If you have a pound of nuts all by themselves in one shot you're looking at some serious discomfort at best :)
Also a food consisting entirely out of spinach or celery is likely to leave you starving to death.
Some mixing can be a good thing i guess - for example i like to blend spinach with apples. But i wouldn't try to blend spinach with eggs for example.
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Well, you can't have problems digesting animal [meat+fat] on its' own.
Maybe I shouldn't eat anything then.
Maybe not... >D
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Well, you can't have problems digesting animal [meat+fat] on its' own.
Yes you can.
Maybe I shouldn't eat anything then.
Maybe. Have you tried an elimination diet before to get tabs on what truly does bother your digestion and what doesn't?
Also, is your meat/fat grass-finished? I can't handle grain-finished; messes me up almost as bad as if I ate the grains themselves. If you haven't given them a try this might be a good time.
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Hey djr, have you heard of lamb being grass-fed, but fed roots in winter? What do you think of that compared to full-grass or grass/grain?
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Hey djr, have you heard of lamb being grass-fed, but fed roots in winter? What do you think of that compared to full-grass or grass/grain?
I had not heard of it but it doesn't surprise me.
From what I can gather online about their natural diet as well as just thinking about how they naturally graze it seems like it's just as bad a practice as grain. 100% grass feed, while better, is not the best choice for sheep either. Natural pasture, with all sorts of grass, weeds, and flowers is the way to go.
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It's not a particular food intolerance. My stomach is so sensitive and disfigured that it needs everything in a mix so it can handle it. Would be nice not to eat anything.....
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It's not a particular food intolerance. My stomach is so sensitive and disfigured that it needs everything in a mix so it can handle it. Would be nice not to eat anything.....
What do you mean exactly by mix? food combining usually means combining appropriate foods or avoiding complex combinations for ease of digestion. I've never heard of the reverse.
raw meats tend to not combine well with green plant matter which is great for cooked meats. raw animals foods/fats usually combine fine for most together, and some do ok with plant fats with meats. Starches are usually terrible with raw or cooked meats, although some here have mentioned enjoying that combination.
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My nerves are badly damaged so they need food combining. Starches actually did a good job of protecting my stomach and made digestion easier. I want to try sauerkraut/meat combo as suggested by another member. Hopefully I'll be able to mono-eat, eventually.
Does anything in particular happen when you combine green plants with meat, or do you just find it unappetizing? It makes sense for it not to work due to different composition and digestion processes.
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sorry if it seems critical, but I'm confused how you are using terminology.
and what you are experiencing specificially .
the classic reason given for combining plants and raw meats (other than complete demonizing of vegetables) is involving the different PH requirements but the real problems are more in drastically slowing down digestion and affecting transit time. its a physical thing, not a preference. herbs and leaves or condiment type vegetables are slightly different. I'm not saying it will kill you (although it might make any dubious bacteria more dubious or meat ferment internally) but I don't understand the connection to nerve damage yet nevermind improving it. Is it that the meat just passes through too quickly and is too light? I know some raw-vegans that would mis-combine foods sometimes just to balance themselves out in some sense, less spacey. Have you tried mixing animal foods like eggs with meat in some kind of sauce?
sauerkraut is great with cooked meat. It is already somewhat predigested so it might be better than harder cellulose but there is also all the different bacteria at play.
My nerves are badly damaged so they need food combining. Starches actually did a good job of protecting my stomach and made digestion easier.
can you expand on this? was it something someone else said or you had various symptoms with just animal food meals (meat/fats/eggs etc..)? What were those symptoms specifically? I definitely relate to having special requirements/needs, but I can't understand the basic mechanism here.
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I have not tried combining meat with a reasonable amount of fat yet. I experience irritation if I do mono-eating, some foods higher some foods lower. Most raw meat is minimally irritating but does not satisfy hunger. Some of the worst foods include fruit, which I usually find a need to consume with starch to protect my stomach. Otherwise I some get some pain, increased hunger, and indigestion symptoms. Plain fruits such as cucumber especially do this and intensify hunger. I remember a time when my typical meal consisted of a starch, meat, and fruit as that seemed to reduce symptoms.
To put a long story short, my stomach needs to be shielded by food such as starch when eating other foods, or risk effects such as increased hunger, indigestion, and irritation.
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I have not tried combining meat with a reasonable amount of fat yet. I experience irritation if I do mono-eating, some foods higher some foods lower. Most raw meat is minimally irritating but does not satisfy hunger. Some of the worst foods include fruit, which I usually find a need to consume with starch to protect my stomach. Otherwise I some get some pain, increased hunger, and indigestion symptoms. Plain fruits such as cucumber especially do this and intensify hunger. I remember a time when my typical meal consisted of a starch, meat, and fruit as that seemed to reduce symptoms.
To put a long story short, my stomach needs to be shielded by food such as starch when eating other foods, or risk effects such as increased hunger, indigestion, and irritation.
these seem like typical symptoms of how you are eating regularly and transition rather than anything to do with nerve damage. of course if you mix starch with a cucumber you will feel more full, cucumbers with peel are also usually hell on the stomach. Most people won't be satisfied eating pure protein or eat that way unless they are eating a variety of fats or carbs throughout the day. Think about the way most westerners eat, just because something masks symptoms doesn't mean its working to correct the problem. You think a cross-country trucker stops for a couple of peaches and doesn't get digestive problems?
fruits can be irritating for a variety of reasons and benefit can be had by combining with some animal, most fruit fats, and most dairy fats, and certain kinds with some types of nuts/seeds. With starches the fruit will automatically ferment, fruit needs to pass through to the lower intestine, that is what that wierd feeling usually is. Also fruit creates some kind of cleansing reaction which is not always helpful or comfortable. Its common to get back aches and all kinds of intestinal things from high sugar seedless fruits. similar to above, is if someone on RAF is eating a fruit meal, they're not going to be satisfied unless they eat enough fat and a fair amount of animal food regularly, or if they are eating massive meals of fruits or combining with fats.
I still don't understand how you've made this conclusion (was there a diagnosis?) especially if you havn't tried mixing meat with fats which is pretty much THE go-to meal. Some fats are difficult to source locally, but at the low end there is always eggs (the free range varieties are acceptable) or avocados at the bottom which are available everywhere. There are some people here that mentioned eating starch (roots -not grains) helped them in a variety of ways (more palatable, eating more etc...) but this shielding concept makes little sense either scientifically or alt-scientifically especially if you arn't even entertaining basic solutions. One major problem with what you doing is increased risk of bacteria. Since you mention in the other thread going to the hospital or whatever from ingesting grains (which doesn't happen to your average rice eater), you can see why I'm pushing you to question your program here.
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I realize what I'm doing is dangerous but it's slowly becoming an upgrade over my previous eating habits. I'm experimenting with what food is best until I can finally start an actual diet.
As for the sensitivity and irritation I am describing, it has been with me for a while. It increases due to other factors too, such as in winter. My allergy/hypersensitivity to cold temperatures causes my nerves to be even more unstable, and this is easily shown after I eat. My stomach is affected the worse by these hypersensitivities. My throat instantly becomes sore if I place my feet on a cool floor for even a second, tongue gets burn marks from remotely sour fruit, and many more. My conditions are complicated, maybe starting a journal would make keeping track of them easier for me and anyone interested...
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if my only option was eating raw meat with cooked grains, I probably wouldn't be eating raw. luckily this isn't a situation anyone needs to be in no matter what state of health they are in. It probably would be good to keep a journal, and detail exactly what you are eating and where you ran into problems. If eating only lean meats got you into trouble but was more or less tolerable except energy wise, than solution is clearly just getting more fats. IICR, there are plenty of options in your area for acquiring fats and fatty meats or fish. Even WF stocks grain-fed bones and suet that are free of hormones ans partially fed grass. and there is always mail order for higher quality which can be at your door in days. Prior to that, you don't have to get rid of grains overnight, just leave them towards the end of the day as a separate meal with vegetables and plant or dairy fats. 2 raw meat meals with eggs, should be suitable energy right now with the later cooked plant carbs.
currently it sounds much more of a recipe for problems with constipation, fermentation and all kinds of issues that even cooked fooders wouldn't have so i'd have to disagree. I wouldn't recommend it for a healthy person never-mind someone with issues. I would rather have all those symptoms you mention all the time without relief than consciously do things I know are dangerous for my health. Any sensitivities are going to have to be catered to otherwise or stabilized by above or on a clean whole foods cooked diet.
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I would still say that if I had a choice of cooked starches and raw meat or cooked starches and cooked meat I would choose the first option. Buckwheat is not a grain but is utilized similarly, but that's beyond the point.
Raw eggs is actually an excellent idea. I've been meaning to try them again after quitting regular consumption 2 months ago. The effects of ceasing to drink raw eggs have been negative. I'll have to try with and without the white. The white did a good job of coating my stomach, and if I show a sensitivity to yolk alone, the white will lift that. Otherwise I can also try mixing egg yolk into my high-fat ground beef meal to make the concentration less dense.