Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet to Suit You => Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet => Topic started by: earthling on July 23, 2010, 10:05:15 am
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Sorry for what might be stupid questions. I still haven't gotten my book yet. I got freshly ground organic grass fed beef yesterday and ate some and stored the rest in tupperware in the fridge. It's slightly brown and I'm wondering if it's still okay to eat and continue to eat tomorrow. How long can I keep it in the fridge and when do I know if it's gone bad? Thank you!
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I keep my stuff open in the fridge up to 2 weeks.
Keep it ventilated. Best to hang it for maximum ventilation.
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Thanks, Good Samaritan. Does it still turn a little brown? Mine is ground beef.
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I have a different philosophy with ground beef.
Personally, I don't like ground beef.
I do serve my kids cooked ground beef but I grind it at the market and serve it the same day.
I experimented with ground beef a la french steak tar tar and I only ate it freshly ground.
My take on ground beef is you buy whole beef and keep it in your ref. When you want to eat ground beef, you grind it fresh in your grinder.
I have this thing against grinding it and exposing all of it in the air for a long time.
Now meat locked in from a whole slab is different.
You may want to hear the experience of other ground beef eaters. I personally dislike ground beef. I like my beef whole and I slice on demand.
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I have a different philosophy with ground beef.
Personally, I don't like ground beef.
I do serve my kids cooked ground beef but I grind it at the market and serve it the same day.
I experimented with ground beef a la french steak tar tar and I only ate it freshly ground.
My take on ground beef is you buy whole beef and keep it in your ref. When you want to eat ground beef, you grind it fresh in your grinder.
I have this thing against grinding it and exposing all of it in the air for a long time.
Now meat locked in from a whole slab is different.
You may want to hear the experience of other ground beef eaters. I personally dislike ground beef. I like my beef whole and I slice on demand.
Thanks for your advice GoodSamaritan, I got ground beef because it's the only recipe I know. l) Will start whole beef.
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How long can I keep it in the fridge and when do I know if it's gone bad? Thank you!
Theoretically you can keep it FOREVER ;)
Practically it depends on your abilities to eat aged meat.
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I had some 100% grass-fed ground beef which became brown on the outside layer, and I still ate it and it was fine. Just the flavour of it is a little more intense, but that actually made the ground beef easier for me to eat it raw.
It would probably be better to store the meat in the open rather than in a sealed tupperware, though, unless you aired it outside regularly which is how they make high-meat. My ground beef also never even went into the fridge after I bought it, but I ate it within 24 hours.. but it was still left out in open-air no-refrigeration the whole time I was at work and while asleep too, just make sure no flies can get to the meat. Keeping it in the fridge would probably help it last longer than 24 hours, which I'm not sure if I would have eaten my beef after 24 hours without refrigeration.
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Theoretically you can keep it FOREVER ;)
Practically it depends on your abilities to eat aged meat.
I would be extremely careful where this is concerned. A simple Google search will reveal numerous scientific studies carried out on ground meats monitoring the levels of lipid and cholesterol oxidation over a period of 1 to 14 days. It would be preferable to eat it immediately after grinding but certainly no longer than a day after if one wishes to minimise the impact of these potentially dangerous substances.
Can you be sure precisely when any commercially purchased meat was actually ground? Probably not. Also, there are other factors to consider such as the strong toxic cleaning chemicals used on commercial mincers (even when producing organic ground meats!) which will undoubtedly be transferred to the purchased ground meat.
Personally, I never consume pre-ground meat. I've been eating RPD for 10 years and have only recently started experimenting with ground meats by grinding it myself at home. I tend to dehydrate it for a couple of hours after grinding and then consume it. This is also not ideal, I'm sure, but I prefer the taste and texture prepared in this manner.
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unfortunately the ONLY grass-fed beef I have been able to find was ground, so it's either that or no grass-fed beef at all..
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That's unfortunate. I, too, have always found obtaining and retaining sources of the very particular food items I require on this diet the most difficult aspect.
Have you considered wild game meats Wolf? I'd consider these far preferable even to grass-fed/finished domesticated animals as they still eat their naturally foraged diet, suffer far less distress in death thereby producing less stress hormones (no horrific abbatoirs or travel to abbatoirs), and have not been selectively bred by humans for reasons of financial gain. If you could locate a reliable source of year-round wild game such as venison then, of course, you could store large cuts and grind it yourself. Just a thought.
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When I buy meat its red and fresh tasting. I put it in a glass airtight container to keep the freshness, am I making a mistake? will is stay fresh longer if I give it more air?
I don't like it very brown but will still eat it.
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I would looooooove to try some venison, unfortunately I don't know anyone who hunts.
I think it is bad to store meat in an airtight container, unless you air it out regularly, i think because of botulism.. but then airing it out regularly is what people who are making high-meat do, which makes the meat brown and smelly and more intense tasting.
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Interesting regarding the anti-ground talk. I get ground pork at the butchers and it is grass fed organic. He grinds while I wait. I figured it was a bonus to let it get a bit high. I find the ground pork tastes wonderful. Much better than beef. I haven't tried other animals partly due to cost. I just bought some ground pork hmmmmm.
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Watch out for those cleaning chemicals raw-al! I'd highly recommend investing in a home grinder.
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I hear you Michael. So the grinding is not a problem? Just the way it is done with a grinder cleaned with industrial cleaners? Does time do a job on the meat differently when it is ground?
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Well actually, I think someone mentioned to me that ground meat is not as easily digested as non-ground meat..
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/hot-topics/undigested-meat/msg42536/#msg42536
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You may eat more of the same meat if it’s ground, so you’ll easily eat too much of it. As a result you may have digestion troubles and if you systematically grind your meat you can remain permanently in a state of meat overload which can be dangerous in the long run.
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how much meat is too much?
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how much meat is too much?
If you eat unprocessed, unseasoned, unsalted meat from wild animals, you will know quite exactly how much is too much: when you don’t like it anymore, it means you have enough of it. It’s a bit unclear with beef, lamb, porc and other domesticated animals meats, but the same kind of feeling occurs – somewhat later and therefore we have to be careful.
The amount can vary widely from one person to the other and from a day to another day.
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As the discussion has slipped into another subject, the following posts have been moved here:
Mechanical food processing and fermented foods (http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/instinctoanopsology/mechanical-food-processing-and-fermented-foods/)
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I hear you Michael. So the grinding is not a problem? Just the way it is done with a grinder cleaned with industrial cleaners? Does time do a job on the meat differently when it is ground?
Better late than never raw-al! :) Sorry, I must've missed this one and it's probably no longer important.
In my view, the 2 things to be aware of with eating ground meat are i) industrial cleaners and other toxic residues from commercially produced ground meat and ii) the timeframe between grinding and consumption. I think I provided a link to studies elsewhere regarding the important issue of lipid oxidation in ground meats (let me know if you can't find it!). My suggestion would be to only eat meat ground at home and consumed on the same day.
Having said that, I am aware that Lex's mono-diet of ground pet food and fat does not satisfy these requirements and he has still made significant improvements in health. He buys pre-ground 'pet food' meat from Slankers which, I believe, is frozen. I don't know if he's consulted with Slankers about any potential industrial chemical pollution. Being frozen he will, at least, be reducing the lipid oxidation factor although freezing, itself, is not without it's drawbacks (as I understand it) as far as protein damage is concerned. Admirably, Lex does openly admit that convenience and the ability to attain sufficient good health to enjoy life are his driving motivations.
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Better late than never raw-al! :) Sorry, I must've missed this one and it's probably no longer important.
In my view, the 2 things to be aware of with eating ground meat are i) industrial cleaners and other toxic residues from commercially produced ground meat and ii) the timeframe between grinding and consumption. I think I provided a link to studies elsewhere regarding the important issue of lipid oxidation in ground meats (let me know if you can't find it!). My suggestion would be to only eat meat ground at home and consumed on the same day.
Having said that, I am aware that Lex's mono-diet of ground pet food and fat does not satisfy these requirements and he has still made significant improvements in health. He buys pre-ground 'pet food' meat from Slankers which, I believe, is frozen. I don't know if he's consulted with Slankers about any potential industrial chemical pollution. Being frozen he will, at least, be reducing the lipid oxidation factor although freezing, itself, is not without it's drawbacks (as I understand it) as far as protein damage is concerned. Admirably, Lex does openly admit that convenience and the ability to attain sufficient good health to enjoy life are his driving motivations.
Michael, the bulk of my meat the past few months has been pre-ground as it's the cheapest my farmer has. His standards are so high though that I have no problems from the meat at all. I do notice the brisket, when I get it, is a bit more nourishing but it's all relative to the quality that you begin with. It's all frozen meat as well FWIW.
I have my doubts as to the extent of protein denaturation when frozen in a blast freezer. I'm bulking up quite steadily (~10 pounds in 2 months with a roughly estimated 6-7 pounds as muscle) with visible muscle growth on a diet of usually 1 1/2 pounds of the ground (very lean) and maybe 1/4-1/2 pound suet.
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Glad to hear that you're continuing to make good progress dan!
I had no intention of absolutely denouncing the eating of pre-ground or frozen meat so I hope I did not give this impression. I just wanted to point out the important points worthy of consideration to raw-al and anybody else that reads it. Of course, we all make our own choices based on our own perception of the evidence and our own circumstances. I can also clearly see the attraction of pre-ground frozen meats from a convenience and financial perspective and, if my circumstances were different, would not entirely rule out eating such foods myself.
I'd be interested in any links to studies or information which has informed your doubts regarding the extent of protein denaturation resulting from freezing.
Hope you're laying off those berries?!! ;)
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Glad to hear that you're continuing to make good progress dan!
Thank Michael. I'm very happy too. ;D
I had no intention of absolutely denouncing the eating of pre-ground or frozen meat so I hope I did not give this impression. I just wanted to point out the important points worthy of consideration to raw-al and anybody else that reads it. Of course, we all make our own choices based on our own perception of the evidence and our own circumstances. I can also clearly see the attraction of pre-ground frozen meats from a convenience and financial perspective and, if my circumstances were different, would not entirely rule out eating such foods myself.
I know you didn't. I just wanted to add in a bit more of my 2 cents with more recent experience. :)
I'd be interested in any links to studies or information which has informed your doubts regarding the extent of protein denaturation resulting from freezing.
I fly by the seat of my pants Michael. If it makes me feel good then it's ok in my book. I love science but do not spend time reading up on many studies so usually have no hard evidence to back up my anecdotal findings.
My feels about the protein issue is due to how I feel eating consistent brisket versus consistent ground. I do notice I have a small hit to performance (oftentimes mental) when eating solely ground but it's very small.
Of note my ground meat is much coarser and could very well be a single pass through the grinder like Rawzi mentioned. Maybe this minimizes problems for me?
Hope you're laying off those berries?!! ;)
Absolutely. The last fruit I had were about a half dozen lingonberries, maybe a month ago, off of plants my mother planted this year. They were nice and tart which was nice. I also didn't notice an issue with my Candida afterwards but did have a small bit of joint pain so will not make it a regular occasion.
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I was eating ground in the past frequently but I realize that I prefer it not ground up. However I try to vary my menu so it will be used here and there. I find that I will go for awhile eating one type of meat and then after awhile it starts to get unappealing so onto another. I suspect that it is an inborn need for some nutrient or another that is calling.
From my Ayurvedic studies I have concluded that eating one particular meal for very long periods is an invitation to disease. (This'll start a racket LOL )
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If it makes me feel good then it's ok in my book. I love science but do not spend time reading up on many studies so usually have no hard evidence to back up my anecdotal findings. My feels about the protein issue is due to how I feel eating consistent brisket versus consistent ground. I do notice I have a small hit to performance (oftentimes mental) when eating solely ground but it's very small.
Reading and responding to one's own bodily reactions is wise practice Dan. The science is important and certainly has it's place but when it begins to take precedence over listening to our unique bodies and acknowledging their individual needs then it has the potential to become a negative influence.
Absolutely. The last fruit I had were about a half dozen lingonberries, maybe a month ago, off of plants my mother planted this year. They were nice and tart which was nice. I also didn't notice an issue with my Candida afterwards but did have a small bit of joint pain so will not make it a regular occasion.
Good on you! With berry season now reaching it's conclusion you have done well to abstain! I must admit I have indulged in wild blackberries/raspberries on a number of occasions this season as it's been a nice thing to do when out walking in nature with my son. He absolutely relishes them and, as he's given no other fruit/veg, I think they probably do him good. Fortunately, these don't seem to have had much of an impact on me although they were probably partly responsible for my recent tooth problems.
I find that I will go for awhile eating one type of meat and then after awhile it starts to get unappealing so onto another. I suspect that it is an inborn need for some nutrient or another that is calling. From my Ayurvedic studies I have concluded that eating one particular meal for very long periods is an invitation to disease. (This'll start a racket LOL )
Funny enough, I tend to do the same Alan. I often eat the same thing for a number of days or weeks and then switch to something completely different. But, it's all variation on a theme on my VLC diet! I suspected, too, that you may have started a racket with those comments but nothing so far?! :) Certainly, Lex seems to be responding incredibly well to his mono-diet but, in general, that's probably wise advice.