Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Iguana on September 21, 2010, 03:37:34 am
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NOTE: The following posts have been extracted from Instincto`s tropical paradise (http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/instinctoanopsology/instinctos-tropical-paradise/msg47305/#msg47305)
Practically everyone who starts with instinctive raw eating made mistakes, sometimes because he is not willing to accept the instinctive barrier or select improper food (for example when tooth fillings disturb the instinct) and other reasons.
Sorry Susan, but we disagree about tooth fillings: I fail to see how and why they could impair our senses of smell, taste and other instinctive feelings. I've never heard of anybody complaining about the loss of some ability to smell or taste the food after having a tooth filled.
About wild cherries, I often had a lunch with perhaps hundreds of them - sorry I didn't count!
Francois
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Sorry Susan, but we disagree about tooth fillings: I fail to see how and why they could impair our senses of smell, taste and other instinctive feelings. I've never heard of anybody complaining about the loss of some ability to smell or taste the food after having a tooth filled.
About wild cherries, I often had a lunch with perhaps hundreds of them - sorry I didn't count!
Francois
Your instincts can only work well if your brain and your nerve cells work well. Metalls and other toothfillings damage and destroy nerve cells. There exists a lot of information about this fact, so please inform yourself for example here:http://www.livelongercleanse.com/heavy-metal-sources.html (http://www.livelongercleanse.com/heavy-metal-sources.html) or here http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-neurotoxin.htm (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-neurotoxin.htm).
Are you sure that without toxic toothfillings and metalls in your brain your smell and taste will be still the same?
What do you want to say with the fact that you have eaten a hundreds of wild cherries?
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Your instincts can only work well if your brain and your nerve cells work well. Metalls and other toothfillings damage and destroy nerve cells. There exists a lot of information about this fact, so please inform yourself for example here:http://www.livelongercleanse.com/heavy-metal-sources.html (http://www.livelongercleanse.com/heavy-metal-sources.html) or here http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-neurotoxin.htm (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-neurotoxin.htm).
Are you sure that without toxic toothfillings and metalls in your brain your smell and taste will be still the same?
There’s no question that mercury, lead, fluoride and other heavy metals are highly toxic. Of course we'd better avoid metallic tooth fillings like the plague. Anyway, they are not allowed anymore in most countries.
What I doubt very much is that those metallic fillings can significantly disturb our smell and taste ability. If it were the case, it should be well known that oenologists with metallic tooth fillings are unable to compete in wine tasting against others who are free of metallic fillings.
By the way, some fish such as shark and swordfish contain a lot of mercury, much more than tuna. I would not regularly consume swordfish, it’s a pity because I like it very much. Shark flesh is hard, I don’t like it so much. From your link:
(http://www.livelongercleanse.com/files/3374293/uploaded/fish%20poster%20mercury.jpg)
What do you want to say with the fact that you have eaten a hundreds of wild cherries?
It was just to say that some people (including me) can sometimes eat much more than 12 wild cherries, not to dispute your statement. Every one is different and every circumstance is different!
Cheers
Francois
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The mercury-in-fish issue is merely a scam set up by PETA and various environmentalist agencies. Here is info on the issue:-
http://fishscam.com/mercuryMyths.cfm
http://www.rochester.edu/pr/releases/med/mercury.htm
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Thanks Tyler, very interesting pages. Any data comparing the amount of mercury we may get from regular fish consumption to that from tooth fillings? A quick Google search brought this:
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/819872-overview
Elemental mercury has poor GI absorption and, therefore, oral or rectal exposure to elemental mercury from a thermometer should have no toxic effect. Dental amalgams also contain elemental mercury. Dental professionals who are in contact with amalgam must follow specific guidelines to avoid exposure to toxic amounts of aerosolized elemental mercury. Patients with dental amalgam fillings have slightly elevated levels in their urine, but these findings have not correlated with any systemic disease.
• In December 2002, the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) published a Consumer Update on dental amalgams. It had the following statement to make: "FDA and other organisations of the U.S. Public Health SERVICE (USPHS) * continue to investigate the safety of amalgams used in dental restorations (fillings). However, no valid scientific evidence has shown that amalgams cause harm to patients with dental restorations, except in the rare case of allergy".12
Dental amalgam - Mercury is used in dentistry in dental amalgam. Dental amalgam is a direct filling material used in restoring teeth. It is made up of approximately 40-50% mercury, 25% silver and 25-35% a mixture of copper, zinc and tin. Amalgam use is declining because the incidence of dental decay is decreasing and because improved substitute materials are now available for certain applications.
http://www.epa.gov/mercury/exposure.htm
Dental amalgams are considered medical devices and are regulated by U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Since the 1990s, FDA, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and other government agencies have reviewed the scientific literature looking for links between dental amalgams and health problems. CDC reported in 2001 that there is little evidence that the health of the vast majority of people with dental amalgam is compromised, nor that removing amalgam fillings has a beneficial effect on health.
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I'm not convinced re this amalgam issue as my own experience showed no benefit from getting rid of them. No idea re specific studies, but I have previously read plenty of scientific data pointing out flaws re the mercury-amalgam notions.
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Thanks Tyler, very interesting pages. Any data comparing the amount of mercury we may get from regular fish consumption to that from tooth fillings? A quick Google search brought this:
I have suffered amalgam poisoning first hand when I was raging with eczema in 2005.
I had my amalgams removed by a regular dentist, I could not wait to locate a biological dentist.
Each appointment was to drill out one quarter of my mouth with amalgam, all my quarters had amalgam,
Each and every time my eczema raged fiercer that evening.
Oh yeah, that was mercury poisoning all right.
But I didn't care, I continued all 4 quarters.
I was thinking my eczema will expel the mercury.
Nowadays that I'm well I can say I eat blue marlin sashimi and some tuna sashimi regularly and I have not detected any mercury poisoning yet.
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It was just to say that some people (including me) can sometimes eat much more than 12 wild cherries, not to dispute your statement. Every one is different and every circumstance is different!
We conform that sometimes 12 or even less wild cherries fulfill indivudual needs and sometimes hundreds. And indeed there are big differences in the needs of the individuals. Therefore all recommandations and comparisons with our forebears (humans or apes) or other raw eaters are useless. Only the current individual needs are important.
There’s no question that mercury, lead, fluoride and other heavy metals are highly toxic. Of course we'd better avoid metallic tooth fillings like the plague. Anyway, they are not allowed anymore in most countries.
A few hours later (in your answer to TylerDurden) you found another information: dental mercury isn't really harmfull. Which information is true?
So we can have endless discussions about this theme. If mercury or gold has an influence of an individual or not can be only confirmed by the individual. I noticed a lot of changes after the removal of the fillings so for me it is obviously that toothfillings have had an influence of my organism and I'm happy that this influence vanished.
Therfore I ask you once again: Are you sure that without toxic toothfillings and metalls in your brain your smell and taste will be still the same?
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A few hours later (in your answer to TylerDurden) you found another information: dental mercury isn't really harmfull. Which information is true?
The pages TD gave the links are about mercury in fish, not about mercury in dental amalgams. Anyway, even if it were concerning dental amalgams the question seem highly controversial: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_amalgam_controversy. I think both info are true and not mutually exclusive. Like always it’s a matter of dose: even water is noxious at high dose http://www.dhmo.org/ (I already gave this link several times). The question is: are the doses of mercury in dental amalgams really dangerous? Is it better to have these fillings replaced with composite or ceramics or is it better to leave them ? I don’t know, and it could well be that the answer is different form case to case.
So we can have endless discussions about this theme. If mercury or gold has an influence of an individual or not can be only confirmed by the individual. I noticed a lot of changes after the removal of the fillings so for me it is obviously that toothfillings have had an influence of my organism and I'm happy that this influence vanished.
It’s possible, but don’t forget that it could be placebo effect and that’s other factors could be interfering as well (I don’t say it is, I just don’t know). It’s always difficult to isolate the variables. Moreover, even if it was apparently beneficial in your case, we cannot infer that it would be beneficial in every case. For example TD reported no benefits.
Therfore I ask you once again: Are you sure that without toxic toothfillings and metalls in your brain your smell and taste will be still the same?
I’m not absolutely sure of many things… but as I said, if you are right, oenologists with metallic amalgams should be hampered but it doesn’t seem to be the case – I’ve got an oenologist diploma (never used…) myself even that I have also several metallic dental amalgams!
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By the way, should I split this topic and open a thread about mercury ?
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By the way, should I split this topic and open a thread about mercury ?
A thread about mercury makes no sense, because it is not the only stuff which can influence the human organism. Composites or ceramics have an influence too. People who are cooking don't notice problems with this fillings because they have a lot of other problems. :) Raw eating people can notice them.
If here is anybody else except me who noticed problems we can open a new thread but I don't think there is anybody else.
So lets return to the originally theme.
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I think I have a composite cap and ceramic veneer on one of my front teeth, which I snapped when I was ~10 years old(tripped over a stupidly placed toolbox in an already extremely cluttered house and went face-first into the bottom step of the staircase, solid wood).
Do you think it is bad that I have this material in my mouth?
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I think I have a composite cap and ceramic veneer on one of my front teeth, which I snapped when I was ~10 years old(tripped over a stupidly placed toolbox in an already extremely cluttered house and went face-first into the bottom step of the staircase, solid wood).
Do you think it is bad that I have this material in my mouth?
Composites (not only used as fillings but also to fix ceramic veneers) are supposed to demineralize the organism and to destroy nerve cells (especially mirrow cells). So observe yourself if caries continues, if you become grey-haired or loose your hairs. Or make a blood analysis to see if there are any problems.
If everything is o.k. maybe your body still tolerate the foreign material. Most problems with toothfilling occur after a long period of raw living. Maybe at the beginning the system is occupied with the elimination of impurities restored in cells and the extracellular space as a result of our cooking culture. But sooner or later it starts trying to eliminate all foreign materials. In my case problems with composites in the upper incisors occured after 3 years living 100% instinctive raw and I removed them.
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Did you replace them with anything..?
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Composites (not only used as fillings but also to fix ceramic veneers) are supposed to demineralize the organism and to destroy nerve cells (especially mirrow cells). So observe yourself if caries continues, if you become grey-haired or loose your hairs. Or make a blood analysis to see if there are any problems.
If everything is o.k. maybe your body still tolerate the foreign material. Most problems with toothfilling occur after a long period of raw living. Maybe at the beginning the system is occupied with the elimination of impurities restored in cells and the extracellular space as a result of our cooking culture. But sooner or later it starts trying to eliminate all foreign materials. In my case problems with composites in the upper incisors occured after 3 years living 100% instinctive raw and I removed them.
You seem to be a particular case. After more than 23 years of 100% raw instinctive nutrition, I still haven't noticed any problem with my dental fillings, either metallic or composite ones. My grandfather, my father and even my son all lost their hair but I still have mine.
;)
Cheers
Francois
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Did you replace them with anything..?
The dentist tryed to use pure dental cement (which seems to be the only stuff which makes no problems, but who knows?) but after a hearty bite in a piece of lamb meat it disappeared :D. So I decided to live with a gap in my front teeth.
You seem to be a particular case. After more than 23 years of 100% raw instinctive nutrition, I still haven't noticed any problem with my dental fillings, either metallic or composite ones. My grandfather, my father and even my son all lost their hair but I still have mine.
;)
Everyone is a particular case. :)
Congratulations for your full hair, but it is grey, isn't it? I hope my greying will not only stop with instinctive nutrition, I believe that my hair will turn totally brown again when my nutrition is perfect. I don't think it's "normal" to become grey with 50 years.
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I'm 64.
Perfection doesn't belong to this world!
Cooked food, grain and dairy accelerate aging, but aging doesn't stop with raw paleo, it's just that we age somewhat slower than standard dieters.
Even elder chimps get gray hair in the wild:
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/49/167328694_7a203439a0.jpg)
It means to the others that they have a lot of experience and should be respected as such: "don't mess with me!"
;)
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I'm 64.
Perfection doesn't belong to this world!
Therefore let us create another. :)
Cooked food, grain and dairy accelerate aging, but aging doesn't stop with raw paleo, it's just that we age somewhat slower than standard dieters.
Even some cooking people look younger than others and tilll now I havn't seen any instinctive raw eater looking younger than the average of people who are cooking. Me inclusive :) But I have my ideas and dreams and therefore I observe myselfe accurate and I will see if things changes.
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Therefore let us create another. :)
Good luck !
tilll now I havn't seen any instinctive raw eater looking younger than the average of people who are cooking.
There must be not many long term instinctos in Germany. I've known some very long term instinctos and I can tell you they age noticeably slower (perhaps 15%) than the average. It's striking, especially for women. Men stay slim as well; their face ages somehow but their body remains in good shape. Cooked food spoils the body, most women get fat and cellulite very early. Even my former wife got incredibly younger in only one month of instincto
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Generally speaking, rawists tend to look c.10 years younger than cooked-foodists in middle-age. As regards Instinctos, I did come across some reports indicating that Instinctos at raw-food-gatherings looked healthier than the Primal Dieters.
As for Germany, from the articles I've read etc., almost all Instinctos in Germany are almost wholly 100% raw vegan, with only occasional consumption of things like raw eggs but hardly ever any raw meats. Those Instinctos who eat at least 10% of their diet in the form of (grassfed) raw meats, should be fine.
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There must be not many long term instinctos in Germany.
That's true. But I refer to french Instinctos. I met them on a raw-meeting and they didn't look younger than the average. Maybe these group was not representative.
I've known some very long term instinctos and I can tell you they age noticeably slower (perhaps 15%) than the average. It's striking, especially for women.
That are good news for me, I really was a little disappointed by the appearence of these instinctos.
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The mercury-in-fish issue is merely a scam set up by PETA and various environmentalist agencies. Here is info on the issue:-
http://fishscam.com/mercuryMyths.cfm
http://www.rochester.edu/pr/releases/med/mercury.htm
was it a biological dentist ? or a regular one
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was it a biological dentist ? or a regular one
A regular one. I got ceramic fillings instead.
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My GF and I got rid of the mercury fillings. We noticed an improvement in the way we felt and the mouth just felt better, with less metallic taste.
I got ceramic bridges because Ayurveda says that gold has a heating effect and since I have a lot of Pitta like my sister I knew it would cause issues. She has MS and I have a theory it is due to her mouth full of gold fillings. It makes sense Ayurvedically. Her mouth looks like it is having constant Pitta aggrivation issues and of course they get washes down into the rest of her by the eating process. I think the other choice was titanium and I am not sure what effect it has, as there is no references to it in the texts and I did not want to experiment with my body. Ceramic I believe is not biologically active but I could be wrong. It is very hard which could impact on the opposite teeth by causing erosion or cracking if it is pressed too hard.
To me the only reason there is controversy about mercury filling is that the dentists (here in Canada and the US) are concerned that if they admit they are problematic they will all be sued out of business because so many people have them.
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A regular one. I got ceramic fillings instead.
when you say a regular dentist, do you mean one that doesn't know about the potential dangers of mercury fillings ?
a regular dentist replaced one of my mercury fillings, yet still left some mercury in it.
a homeopathic one will remove all the mercury from the filling. alternative dentist, whatever you call them.
a homeopathic will use safety precautions so you don't breather in mercury.
a regular dentist will just drill and replace. this is dangerous for the dentist and for you.
of course it depends on the size of the filling, how much mercury was in the filling, how long you were exposed. my guess is a regular dentist doesn't use the same safety mesaures as a homeopathic one.
My opinion is , you got a schmuck to get the filling removed, no matter how nice or good hearted the dentist is, is irrelevant. my dentist is the nicest person you could meet, yet he didnt remove my mercury filling all the way.
secondly, he did not use the safety precautions compared to a homeopathic dentist, which I had to travel to a different city to get to, but its worth it.
Also, did you get an x ray of your mouth to see where the mecury is, and an x ray faterwards to see if the mercury was gone ??
At least gte yourself an x ray that detects mercury in the mouth to at least see if you got it all removed.
how to remove them properly
http://www.naturalnews.com/023652_mercury_clay_health.html
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Anyhow I got to thinking and did some more research and I found that the fillings once removed must go to a hazardous waste dump and if they are disposed of improperly will result in heavy fines.
and did your dentist use a different water supply to get rid of the mercury ? or just dump it into the public water supply
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Are amalgam tattoos dangerous?
I think I had a silver crown placed on my molar tooth when I was younger. Eventually it fell out when I was chewing gum and I didn't get it replaced. But....there seems to be a black circular stain about 1 mm in diameter right below the tooth that had the crown. I believe it's called an amalgam tattoos. Are these dangerous?
Are they just stains or actual metal/crown elements that are stored in the gum tissue as it is too toxic to excrete?
here is a sample picture of an amalgam tattoo:
http://milldental.com/millennium/procedures/images/uploaded/fillings_006.jpg
this is one i found off the internet, ...my amalgam tattoo is smaller in diameter and adjacent to my molar tooth on the bottom part of my mouth. I am wondering if toxic elements are slowly being released from that spot, or if it is a storehouse of metal, etc
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I am certainly not an expert on things dental but this looks more like some kind of underlying infection.
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My woman's a dentist, so I asked her: Her answer was that all fillings are bad and comes with possible complications ranging from unpleasant to life threatening. That fluoride is a horrible poison, but....the damage done by the unfathomable sugar consumption of our times makes it their only line of defense against heavy tooth decay. According to her, 100% of all independant dentists would rather not have to use any of it. But since people wont listen, and they want good looking teeth at the same time. Poison time!
*)it should be noted that the reason they fear tooth decay and caries so much is because it is very, VERY dangerous. More and more studies they do show a direct link between bad mouth hygeine/problems and heart, artery...I mean all kinds of potentially fatal problems. So they are very scared of it now. Its not the bad breath..
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You think composite crown+ceramic veneer is bad and poisonous..? For the first day that I had it put on, my mouth tasted of plastic.
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You think composite crown+ceramic veneer is bad and poisonous..? For the first day that I had it put on, my mouth tasted of plastic.
Not sure what the issues are regarding unhealthiness, I chose it as the lessor of the evils. My opinion now is that a raw diet would have prevented it in the first place. However that is a guess. The old rumour that G. Washington had walnut teeth apparently ain't so...
"which is affiliated with the Smithsonian Institution, to supervise laser scans on one of the four known sets of Washington's dentures. The dentures are made from gold, ivory, lead, human and animal teeth (horse and donkey teeth were common components)."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6875436/
Interesting that they used animal teeth.
The latest thing is having teeth replaced with a complete synthetic tooth that is mounted on a screw. Not sure about that but if you have too much decay in the jawbone from the infection that caused the tooth to decay in the first place you cannot have the false tooth screwed in. Ask me how I know.
I believe that sugar, excessive fruit and grains especially flours are the evil empire. My teeth feel great since I started on raw.
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It's a crown because my mouth smacked into the edge of a wooden step when I was ten; not from decay.
I just searched crown and found this is not in fact a crown... That's what I thought it was called. What I have is something else. When I snapped my tooth the surgery was closed because it was 24th December so I got 'emergency treament' or something. Anyway the guy stuck something on the top the half-tooth which was left. Recently, around 8 years later, I went in and got a ceramic veneer placed over the front of this original stuff/thing...
I think the original stuff may have been composite resin? It was white. The veneer which I think is ceramic is also white.
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You think composite crown+ceramic veneer is bad and poisonous..? For the first day that I had it put on, my mouth tasted of plastic.
Nope. Ceramics is just that. rarely used because of the expense involved. They have to make a cast and have it specially made for you. Composite on the other hand. She says that it is worst while they are working with it. The chemicals they use to attach and mold it in your mouth is so toxic that the guidelines state that if they get it on their glove, they must change it within 5 minutes. That was on their gloves!
The basic idea is that you should stop eating shit that rots your face. Whenever they do anything in your mouth, other than a good pro brushing, it comes down to a choice between evils.
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I think the original stuff may have been composite resin? It was white. The veneer which I think is ceramic is also white.
It was composite with almost 100% certainty.
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That's what sucks... I didn't eat shit that rotted my face, I got it snapped in half because of someone else's lack of consideration -_-
So are you saying that now that it's done I should leave it, as the fitting is when it's bad? Or do you think I should actually have it removed and walk around with half a tooth missing?
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That's what sucks... I didn't eat shit that rotted my face, I got it snapped in half because of someone else's lack of consideration -_-
So are you saying that now that it's done I should leave it, as the fitting is when it's bad? Or do you think I should actually have it removed and walk around with half a tooth missing?
I am in no way qualified to answer that. But I will ask her tomorrow. My feeling is that she is going to say that you should leave it in.
I wasnt reffering to you specifically with the 'rotting face' thing. That is what she repeats ad nauseum.
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weston price found a tribe who lived on bread, milk , butter and chesse, and some meat and veg, and their teeth were fine
i know its been discussed 1,000 times, but its worth pointing out
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weston price found a tribe who lived on bread, milk , butter and chesse, and some meat and veg, and their teeth were fine
i know its been discussed 1,000 times, but its worth pointing out
Was that the people in the swiss mountains?
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i had a friend who completely lost his sense of smell after having his tonsils removed. not sure how that happened. but he always used to stink up the gym and wouldn't believe us when we told him - thought we were making fun of his disability or something.
as for fillings - i had two mercury ones and replaced them both with 93% gold, 7% platinum alloy. interestingly enough it is more grey than yellow in color. looks something like this:
http://geology.com/minerals/gold/dental-gold.jpg
nothing like what you may find in the mouth of a black rapper. anyway this is what you want for chewing/back teeth / molars. you will want ceramic for the front / smile teeth for cosmetic reasons. i wouldn't recommend mercury to anybody. composite is ok if you plan to die soon - because they have a limited life span.
keep in mind though that gold and ceramic involve much more work than mercury or composite - this means more of your time and money.
also it depends on how bad the damage to the tooth. you can go with composite for some mild damage, that way if it fails you can replace it. but if your tooth is already on the verge of falling apart ( root canal etc ) if you go with a composite and it fails you may lose the entire tooth.