Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Haai on January 29, 2011, 05:24:41 pm
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I get allergic reactions from eggs, sea food and recently discovered a fish allergy.
I'd been eating fish very frequently for like almost a year. I have also been suffering from eczema for the past few years, but it goes away in summer after extensive sunbathing. Anyway, last week I ate some mackeral. Normally I had no reason to suspect a fish allergy, but this time my lips swelled up. This made me think, perhaps it's been the fish that has been preventing my eczema from getting better all this time. So I cut it out and my skin got better and felt better within days. The only thing I was eating was fruit.
On Wednesday I received an order of grass-fed beef. I ate some on wed evening and thursday morning. By thursday evening I was itching like mad all over and my eczema came back. So basically, eggs, fish, seafood and 100% grass-fed beef give me eczema. My girlfriend has told me for ages now that she reckoned the beef was causing it, but I just didn't want to and couldn't believe that. Afterall we are supposed to be evolved to thrive on meat!
I am reluctant to go fruitarian, but if that is what makes me feel best then that's what I will do I guess.
I would be interested to know if anyone else here has problems with meat eg. allergy. If so what do they do about it? Is it species-specific or is it all meat, or like all redmeat?
My plan is to just eat fruit for now until the eczema subsides, then try wild game meat like dear and see if my body reacts to that. If that causes an outbreak of eczema I will wait till it subsides again and then try another species, maybe wild boar. If that's just as bad I'll move on to wild poultry, until hopefully I find some sort of meat thats actually good for me.
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Well, Djr-81, I think, mentioned had some food-intolerance to raw, grainfed meats, but was fine on raw, grassfed meats(I think even a little grain-feeding caused issues?)
Personally, I think, non-dietary methods are required.
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Personally, I think, non-dietary methods are required.
What do you mean by non-dietary methods? Could you please expand a little?
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What do you mean by non-dietary methods? Could you please expand a little?
Well, sometimes alternative therapies that reduce stress have worked where diet didn't provide all the answers. As for what methods to use, I don't really know. I had 1 failure and 1 partial success with subliminal hynosis tapes.
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Well, Djr-81, I think, mentioned had some food-intolerance to raw, grainfed meats, but was fine on raw, grassfed meats(I think even a little grain-feeding caused isuses?)
I definitely have a high sensitivity to grain in an animal's diet.
Interestingly Haii I have differing reactions to red meats.
Beef and venison, provided they have not been eating grain or corn, sit fine.
Goat tastes good but when eaten more than a couple meals binds me up and leaves mucus in my bowel movements.
Lamb gives me very loose unpleasant stools and stomach distress.
I don't like bison so haven't experimented much with it.
I have various reactions to seafood as well.
I've been diagnosed, through blood tests, with allergies to many non-fish seafoods. Those that I have tried, such as scallops, since eating RAF have sat better than cooked but resulted in allergic reactions.
Swordfish sits fine.
Mako Shark was fine.
Tune seems to sit fine as well but I don't enjoy most varieties.
I've tried a couple white fishes and these cause some mucus in the stool.
I encourage you to diversify your diet and find the meats that sit well. I do not have personal experience with fruitarianism but I skew to moderation in general and a diet based on one food group doesn't seem ideal in the long run (I eat RZC myself and have been trying to expand my diet towards a more omnivorous approach myself). :)
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It sounds like you are not digesting proteins well enough. You could try taking HCL to reduce the size of protein fragments. There are conditions and nutritional deficiencies that could impair HCL production. The intestinal lining and HCL production should normalize as you stay on this diet. For a while, I would eliminate all allergenic foods so you don't compromise your digestive health any further. Inflammation would be detrimental to the health process.
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I definitely have a high sensitivity to grain in an animal's diet.
Interestingly Haii I have differing reactions to red meats.
Beef and venison, provided they have not been eating grain or corn, sit fine.
Goat tastes good but when eaten more than a couple meals binds me up and leaves mucus in my bowel movements.
Lamb gives me very loose unpleasant stools and stomach distress.
I don't like bison so haven't experimented much with it.
I have various reactions to seafood as well.
I've been diagnosed, through blood tests, with allergies to many non-fish seafoods. Those that I have tried, such as scallops, since eating RAF have sat better than cooked but resulted in allergic reactions.
Swordfish sits fine.
Mako Shark was fine.
Tune seems to sit fine as well but I don't enjoy most varieties.
I've tried a couple white fishes and these cause some mucus in the stool.
I encourage you to diversify your diet and find the meats that sit well. I do not have personal experience with fruitarianism but I skew to moderation in general and a diet based on one food group doesn't seem ideal in the long run (I eat RZC myself and have been trying to expand my diet towards a more omnivorous approach myself). :)
It's weird because with me all meat and fish (and even chicken eggs to start with - it was only later on when my lips started swelling and tingling) sit fine in my stomach, absolutely no internal discomfort whatsoever. But the next day my skin itches alot and becomes inflamed. I will definately divesify and experiment with different meats until I can find one that doesn't cause this reaction, because I do believe that meat is a very important part of our diet. I'm also thinking of trying duck and/or goose eggs.
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It sounds like you are not digesting proteins well enough. You could try taking HCL to reduce the size of protein fragments. There are conditions and nutritional deficiencies that could impair HCL production. The intestinal lining and HCL production should normalize as you stay on this diet. For a while, I would eliminate all allergenic foods so you don't compromise your digestive health any further. Inflammation would be detrimental to the health process.
Yes, you could be right. Large, partially digested protein molecules could be going through a leaky gut and causing the itching and inflammation that way.
I certainly won't continue eating foods that I suspect are causing the eczema. This includes all fish, chicken eggs and beef. I also don't eat dairy, nuts or any non-paleo foods ofcourse. The only thing I'm eating now is fruit and occasionally honeycomb until I get paid on wednesday when I plan to order some game meat, probably wild boar.
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I'm also thinking of trying duck and/or goose eggs.
That's a good idea. I don't do well on chicken eggs, even when pastured, but I do somewhat better with duck eggs. Quail eggs work well too but I pop the whole egg and eat the shell too as they're a pain to crack open cleanly. I also avoid the whites on chicken/duck eggs as I personally do poorly when I eat them.
Have you tried intermittent fasting? Or maybe even a short water fast? It sounds like your body might need a break for a while to just try and heal up the gut a bit.
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Same thing happened/happens to me.
I don't think the food is the problem, like you said, I believe the problem lies in the gut.
I used to have all sorts of allergic reactions to foods, red meat caused me eczema, dairy clogged my ears, fruit made me itch, starch made me itch. So I realized the food wasn't the problem, my digestive tract was.
But these problems have gone way down for me after I started the primal diet. I eat lots of cream, lots of eggs, I believe these things are essential to heal the digestive tract.
My eczema now is healing slowly, it's gone in many places and in others it's much less than it was. Dairy causes me no problems what so ever any more.
So yeah. My 2 cents on this.
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An autoimmune tendency can attack the cells that secrete stomach acid so all allergenic foods should be stopped for a while. A bad h pylori infection can reduce stomach acid also. People have reported great success using mastic gum extract for this infection. If you are desperate, you can take a shot in the dark and see if it works for you. You could use a good probiotic along with mastic to get rid of bad microorganisms. Have you tried eating just the egg yolk and not the white? The whites are the most allergenic component of the egg. I am allergic to the white, but I can eat the yolk no problem.
These nutrients are needed for stomach acid: L-histidine, vitamin B1, and zinc. This problem can be hard to resolve since low stomach acid can cause nutritional deficiencies of nutrients that are needed for digestive health. If you are against supplements, I guess you could not take them. I'm just giving suggestions that might help.
MSM powder + vitamin C is great for inflammation. MSM and other sulfur nutrients are also good for eliminating heavy metals, which also poorly affect digestion.
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Have you tried intermittent fasting? Or maybe even a short water fast? It sounds like your body might need a break for a while to just try and heal up the gut a bit.
Yeah I have twice done a very short water fast of about 3days. The symptoms got better, but came back when i started eating fish and beef again.
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But these problems have gone way down for me after I started the primal diet. I eat lots of cream, lots of eggs, I believe these things are essential to heal the digestive tract.
My eczema now is healing slowly, it's gone in many places and in others it's much less than it was. Dairy causes me no problems what so ever any more.
I am unsure as to whether or not I should try raw dairy from a cow, but I'm seriously considering trying raw camel milk. I found an interesting small study on it: http://www.ima.org.il/imaj/ar05dec-12.pdf
I know the sample size of 8 children is quite small, but still...
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all allergenic foods should be stopped for a while
What foods do you consider to be allergenic and what not?
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The thing is, raw meat even though raw is still extremely hard on the body. I discovered this through my ZC experiment. A couple months in I started getting weird sleep problems like waking up every night at 2 or 3 and not being able to get more sleep. At first I thought it was the absence of carbs but introducing fruit didn't solve the problem. I had an intuitive feeling that eating so much raw meat is hard on the system even though there is no heavy feeling after eating it like you get from cooked meat.
I reduced eating raw meat to once a week and started drinking a liter of raw milk every day. Not only did my sleep problems go away immediately but my level of vitality skyrocketed. I've been on every dietary protocol out there and nothing gave me this much energy and power. I now believe that fruit and fresh living fats as found in raw eggs and raw milk is all we need and that eating raw meat once a week is beneficial and sufficient.
There seems to be a huge difference in how the body reacts to fresh living fat as opposed to stale hard white fat from meats. So not only is the protein from raw meat hard on the body the stale fat is not optimal either. The same with marrow. If it's hard white it is stale and not fresh living matter anymore. Fresh living bone marrow is slimy yellow. Since most of us don't have access to just killed animals the best alternatives to obtain these extremely nourishing fresh living fats are raw milk and raw eggs. This isn't a vegan type crusade against raw meat as I still eat it. It's just something that I noticed through experimentation.
Also you might want to look into drinking your morning urine as it seems to be a miracle cure for every damn thing bothering the body.
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The thing is, raw meat even though raw is still extremely hard on the body. I discovered this through my ZC experiment. A couple months in I started getting weird sleep problems like waking up every night at 2 or 3 and not being able to get more sleep. At first I thought it was the absence of carbs but introducing fruit didn't solve the problem. I had an intuitive feeling that eating so much raw meat is hard on the system even though there is no heavy feeling after eating it like you get from cooked meat.
I reduced eating raw meat to once a week and started drinking a liter of raw milk every day. Not only did my sleep problems go away immediately but my level of vitality skyrocketed. I've been on every dietary protocol out there and nothing gave me this much energy and power. I now believe that fruit and fresh living fats as found in raw eggs and raw milk is all we need and that eating raw meat once a week is beneficial and sufficient.
There seems to be a huge difference in how the body reacts to fresh living fat as opposed to stale hard white fat from meats. So not only is the protein from raw meat hard on the body the stale fat is not optimal either. The same with marrow. If it's hard white it is stale and not fresh living matter anymore. Fresh living bone marrow is slimy yellow. Since most of us don't have access to just killed animals the best alternatives to obtain these extremely nourishing fresh living fats are raw milk and raw eggs. This isn't a vegan type crusade against raw meat as I still eat it. It's just something that I noticed through experimentation.
Also you might want to look into drinking your morning urine as it seems to be a miracle cure for every damn thing bothering the body.
Welcome back.
Agree with what you say about the fat.
Eating lots of raw animal body fat did not really go that well for me. Cream, raw eggs, and a little bit of animal fat goes best down for me. Basically the primal diet.
I don't agree on eating meat only 1x a week though, I think you are taking it to one extreme to another. I still eat about a 1-2 pounds of meat a day, although I only eat raw fish. Which is considerably easier to digest then red meat.
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I don't agree on eating meat only 1x a week though, I think you are taking it to one extreme to another. I still eat about a 1-2 pounds of meat a day, although I only eat raw fish. Which is considerably easier to digest then red meat.
There's no way I can eat 2 pounds of meat a day right now. Raw fish yes but not raw meat. If I eat more than 300 gr I get extremely thirsty and a sort of adrenaline reaction which is unpleasant. But for all I know I could have taxed my body too much with RZC. I'm not sure yet.
I'm close to primal diet too but I don't do vegetable juicing, raw honey, raw cheese, coconut cream. Also my fruit intake is 600-1000cal which is extreme compared to primal diet recommendations. But very happy with raw milk right now.
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There's no way I can eat 2 pounds of meat a day right now. Raw fish yes but not raw meat. If I eat more than 300 gr I get extremely thirsty and a sort of adrenaline reaction which is unpleasant. But for all I know I could have taxed my body too much with RZC. I'm not sure yet.
I'm close to primal diet too but I don't do vegetable juicing, raw honey, raw cheese, coconut cream. Also my fruit intake is 600-1000cal which is extreme compared to primal diet recommendations. But very happy with raw milk right now.
Sounds like you need some time to recover from what ever happened.
But try getting raw cream aswell, gives me a lot of energy and well being.
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For those who do have allergies/sensitivities to any animal foods, do you notice any reaction from eating very small amounts? How much of those foods do you eat?
Plant foods seem to cause much worse reactions in people who have these issues (Or is it just me?)..
I find that I can do fine on some foods I am sensitive to like raw egg yolks as long as I only eat a pretty small amount.
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Actionhero, where do you get your raw milk from here in the netherlands? And what's your opinion about raw butter? I think i'm gunna have to get the balls to try some raw dairy sometime soon and see how I react to it. Maybe on a friday evening so I've got all weekend to recover from any adverse effects.
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Was any of it ever frozen or brought to temps below 42F or other possibly altering variables? Frozen meat may cause skin problems. It happens to lots of people.
I used to be allergic to all animal products, albeit a couple of them mild. Raw unfrozen highfat etc I don't seem to have any real physical effects, other than health building really. I just can't mix them with carbs other than unheated honey basically, or eat them too close to juice.
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Yes my meat was always frozen. I also thought that it being frozen could be the problem, but then I thought I was getting too paranoid or something. The problem is it's difficult to find grass-fed meat or game that hasn't been frozen. But I think I've found a source of wild boar that is not pre-frozen, so I'm defo gunna try it.
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Actionhero, where do you get your raw milk from here in the netherlands? And what's your opinion about raw butter? I think i'm gunna have to get the balls to try some raw dairy sometime soon and see how I react to it. Maybe on a friday evening so I've got all weekend to recover from any adverse effects.
I anticipated a negative reaction too mainly because of past experiences with raw butter but it didn't happen. It was very nourishing and soothing. I can eat raw butter now without problems. As for raw milk go to the website below, they all sell fresh raw milk. I can vouch for farms Boerderij De Eerste and De Dinkelhoeve as having excellent milk.
http://www.news4all.org/verkoop-melk (http://www.news4all.org/verkoop-melk)
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Stop eating the fish and shellfish and it'll go away.
There is plenty of omega-3 fatty acids in grass fed meats, especially bison and lamb(mutton) tallow. See nutritional value of them over google. And you can get magnesium in the fish from edible clays. So no losses here. Just eat everything in moderation because food allergies can stem from eating the same thing all the time - ie eating the same of frequently eating the fish for a year as you mentioned.
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Stop eating the fish and shellfish and it'll go away.
There is plenty of omega-3 fatty acids in grass fed meats, especially bison and lamb(mutton) tallow. See nutritional value of them over google. And you can get magnesium in the fish from edible clays. So no losses here. Just eat everything in moderation because food allergies can stem from eating the same thing all the time - ie eating the same of frequently eating the fish for a year as you mentioned.
I've stopped eating shellfish and fish and anything that causes any bad reaction (itching, redness, eczema etc), which unforunately includes grass-fed beef atm.
It seems like I very easily become allergic to things, which means my diet is very restricted. And due to that restriction it means I have little choice but to eat the same thing(s) all the time...and then another allergy develops. Bit of a downward spiral...
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There seems to be a huge difference in how the body reacts to fresh living fat as opposed to stale hard white fat from meats. So not only is the protein from raw meat hard on the body the stale fat is not optimal either. The same with marrow. If it's hard white it is stale and not fresh living matter anymore. Fresh living bone marrow is slimy yellow. Since most of us don't have access to just killed animals the best alternatives to obtain these extremely nourishing fresh living fats are raw milk and raw eggs.
I think there is some truth to this. Since most people seem to be set in one camp or another:anti dairy or anti frozen 'hard' fats as you say...there unfortunately isn't alot of swapping and experimenting. Personally I seem to do well with a mix of both. I wouldn't want to be fussy about frozen fats and just rely on dairy fat, and I wouldn't want to just eat pre-frozen suet. They all have various advantages and perhaps disadvantages I guess. I don't have problems with any of these foods really (and I also had various issues with both dairy and hard fats - except for marrow) but will say if I get no fresh fats I'll get fairly dried up and you hear alot about this and yet the dots remain unconnected for some. I'm not sure if you are correct on the marrow though. I don't know what determines whether it is hard or soft, but getting almost all my marrow frozen from distributors, I can say that some is indeed yellow and slimy even after it is frozen..with some remaining dry even when left out in the heat. I think even PD folks like Scott Wheeler are starting to just say that frozen foods basically just lack some nutrition, and arn't ultimately as harmful as some people fuss over.
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Excerpt from my review on Stefansson:-
"Stefansson also mentions, interestingly, that marrow from the upper leg(humerus and femur) is hard and tallowy at room-temperature while the marrow from the lower leg is soft and creamy. The Eskimoes, apparently, preferred to cook the harder marrow, but preferred to eat the softer marrow in raw form."
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Excerpt from my review on Stefansson:-
"Stefansson also mentions, interestingly, that marrow from the upper leg(humerus and femur) is hard and tallowy at room-temperature while the marrow from the lower leg is soft and creamy. The Eskimoes, apparently, preferred to cook the harder marrow, but preferred to eat the softer marrow in raw form."
yum. going to order me up some creamy calves. hold the humerus.
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I've stopped eating shellfish and fish and anything that causes any bad reaction (itching, redness, eczema etc), which unforunately includes grass-fed beef atm.
It seems like I very easily become allergic to things, which means my diet is very restricted. And due to that restriction it means I have little choice but to eat the same thing(s) all the time...and then another allergy develops. Bit of a downward spiral...
It's not the food, it's your gut. Yes, fish will cause a reaction as will most other things, but you should eat them in order for your gut to heal.
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Hi Haai,
I had eczema too. They disappeared after I had begun to eat strictly raw (Instincto, but restricted fruit intake etc.) AND cut out milk AND stopped to use any skin cream. When I stopped to use skin cream, the eczema became worse for a few weeks, but then they disappeared and never returned. They didn´t disappear before I stopped to use any skin cream.
Perhaps you could try to eat only SMALL amounts of fish, beef etc. I do not tolerate some foods if I eat them in great amounts or beyond the first signs of a "instinctive stop". However, I have no proven food allergy (visited the allergist just a few days ago because a local anaesthetic caused a very strong and dangerous reaction...).