Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Löwenherz on March 27, 2011, 09:58:42 pm
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Hi,
is it possible / advisable to make high meat from prefrozen meat? For example prefrozen ground beef?
Sorry, if this question has been discussed already in the past.
Löwenherz
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Hi,
is it possible / advisable to make high meat from prefrozen meat? For example prefrozen ground beef?
Sorry, if this question has been discussed already in the past.
Löwenherz
Some people have said it is possible and have made such. My own experiments failed, though.
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I haven't tried to make high meat from prefrozen meat, but I have been thinking about the possibility of freezing high meat?
Is it possible to preserve really ripe awesome high meat, and then eat high meat ice cubes.(or rotten meat sickles, yum)
I have this really good magot rich piece of rotten meat in my shed, I just wonder if you freeze active high meat, would it damage the properties.
This may be a basis for some experimentation.
It would be ideal to let a big lot of high meat age up to the perfect consistency and then freeze it into cubes for convienience.
Would frozen and thawed high meat keep its active properties?
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Well it definitely goes high. I have had a little euphoria from mine. I will eat a greater amount tomorrow and report back.
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Well it definitely goes high. I have had a little euphoria from mine. I will eat a greater amount tomorrow and report back.
I have some ground beef that was frozen that doesn't seem to be doing much, though it has only been in the jar a few weeks.
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I'm doing it outside the fridge so may work better. Not sure how many of the bacteria are killed by freezing and how many just suspended. It might take them a while to 'wake up'
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I'm doing it outside the fridge so may work better. Not sure how many of the bacteria are killed by freezing and how many just suspended. It might take them a while to 'wake up'
Mine was frozen for many months so it probably needs to be recolonized, but bacteria are everywhere.
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I like open air high meat, the only problem is that in the spring time the maggots take over. And yet perhaps the maggots help speed up the process, I am still new to using maggot meat, but it seems to work just as good as regular high meat. Its kind of weird n especially if you get a maggot crawling back up your throat. but so far no negative effects.
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I like open air high meat, the only problem is that in the spring time the maggots take over. And yet perhaps the maggots help speed up the process, I am still new to using maggot meat, but it seems to work just as good as regular high meat. Its kind of weird n especially if you get a maggot crawling back up your throat. but so far no negative effects.
I want to try this if I can get over the psychological barrier. Do you brush the maggots off or just eat them??
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My meat was frozen for a month or so, then I left it in the fridge and ate some. It started to go stinky after a week or so, so I decided to try it for high meat.
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I just eat it maggots in all, its weird at first, but I am getting use to it.
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I just eat it maggots in all, its weird at first, but I am getting use to it.
Eating raw meat is weird at first.
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Some people have said it is possible and have made such. My own experiments failed, though.
What happened?
And how could I distinguish between bad high meat and good high meat?? :)
Löwenherz
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What happened?
And how could I distinguish between bad high meat and good high meat?? :)
Löwenherz
I recall that they seemed to dry out to some extent. I never got the beneficial effects of "high-meat" unless it was good and moist and covered with fungus-/mold-like threads.
Bad high-meat is simply high-meat which doesn't give you the boosts in mood, concentration-levels and energy, that good high-meat gives one. It also depends on the individual as some seem to need much higher amounts to get that beneficial effect than others.
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I just ate about 10 small chunks of my pre frozen high heart. I have a feeling of euphoria. I guess that my high meat may be less potent than non frozen, as it's been outside the fridge for a fair time. It is going slimy but has no mold. Maybe it will just take a while longer to mature...but I'm sure non frozen would have been quicker.
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I recall that they seemed to dry out to some extent. I never got the beneficial effects of "high-meat" unless it was good and moist and covered with fungus-/mold-like threads.
Bad high-meat is simply high-meat which doesn't give you the boosts in mood, concentration-levels and energy, that good high-meat gives one. It also depends on the individual as some seem to need much higher amounts to get that beneficial effect than others.
So "bad high meat" has no nasty side effects? (I'm thinking of cramps, diarrhea, nausea etc.)
Do you recommend lean meats or fatty cuts for making high meat?
I guess that fats turn very rancid during the aging process!?
Most often I feel really good these days. I wonder if high meat can make things even better? It's hard to believe. But I have to try it. Last time I tried high meat was in 2005. But it was not really "high". Just lean cuts of beef aged for 2-3 weeks. I didn't feel anything special beside the stink.
Löwenherz
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Whether it's fatty or lean seems to make no difference to me re beneficial effects or lack thereof.
The only nasty side-effect I heard of was that woman who complained of feeling really wired after consuming high-meat in the evenings so that she couldn't go to sleep. Eating high-meat in the mornings solved that problem.
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I eat it in the mornings, usually, because it does seem to be a stimulant that keeps me up at night if I eat it to late.
It works great to get me going in the morning, its great to have a clear mind and high energy without the jitters or addiction of other stimulants like coffee.
I have fallen in love with my maggot meat, its been aging in my shed for about two months, it has a layer of crispy blackened meat on the exterior, with the maggots mainly in the moist center, in between layers of slimy gray high meat and a core of red slightly aged meat.(its totally awesome)
It kind of has a coffee like taste and aroma, its very rich in flavor, and I don't have to gag it down, it actually taste like candy to me. I have been cutting wedges out of it for the past week and have been feeling great
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sabertooth, can we get a picture of this? :D
are you eating the maggots too? or the meat around them? (if that's even possible?)
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I have been eating maggot meat for the past two weeks, and I wanted to be sure of no adverse effects before suggesting that its completely safe. Not only is it safe but I think its the best tasting high meat I have made yet. I have been using high meat for over a year now and have made it the traditional mason Jar AV method, but I like the taste of open air high meat so much better, its worth overcoming the ascetic aversion to bugs. It makes sense that if the meat is of good quality then the maggots raised on it should be of the best quality.
(http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk1/sarahab88/Picture137.jpg)
(http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk1/sarahab88/Picture.jpg)
This is good eating right here. :)
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Wow. One day. Not today. Eventually.
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That maggot meat looks tasty. Of course I can't see any wriggling and writhing. ;D
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so sabertooth, or anyone who may have tried?.. how long would it take to make (maggot-free :D ) high meat if i hang a piece of meat in the fridge? and what temperature are we talking to go along with approximate time frame?
thanks for posting that pic!!
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not that it matters much or any way is 'right' but I believe aging and making high meat are entirely different things. The kind of high meat made in jars allows the bacteria to cultivate within the jar aerobically but without a constant flushing of new oxygen or for things to come and go as 'freely'.
all food breaks down by bacteria, but if you leave a cabbage on a table it will never turn into sauerkraut.
if you leave grapes out they won't turn into suitable wine and will likely just plain rot and decay.
Just as there is systems for specifically culturing 'good' bacteria found in traditional peoples these seems to be sort of half-assed and yet refined in the contemporary high meat processing, and these seem to all involve controlling the exposure to oxygen in order to get a desired results.
I haven't studied it super carefully of course, so part of the rational between burying the stuff in the ground or in shark stomachs could be to just remove pests or other animals from eating it, but I suspect not considering the lengths people go through to do certain things. But anyway its pretty common to age beef for even longer periods then typically most people make in jars and this is considered regular fare.
even though full exposure outside will likely cause meat to rot quicker than kept at a solid temp in a jar, this to my knowledge will not ever turn into a liquidy mass in nature FWIW
the main thing with aging the meat obviously is it Willl essentially dry out. often alot of the meat you buy is already aged and they just cut that dry crusty part off. Heres some interesting commentary from Slankers on ageing that is somewhat related
http://www.texasgrassfedbeef.com/faq.htm
no container or exposed at all times to fresh oxygen = dry.
I don't know much about penicillin, or other typically cultured fungus or bacteria, but pretty sure these also yield better results and are arguably safer when all the variables are under control
point being if you came across a rotten carcass, the bacteria would undeniably be at the meat picking at it and changing it in some way, but it isn't exactly the same as high meat which seems to be undeniably a procedure of humans based on altering a natural process, not a natural process in itself.
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re frozen meat, the only thing we know is that frozen foods alter bacteria in some way. People read this as different extremes and some suggest its in a way that is damaging or dangerous, and others say that it is just dormant and retains more nutrition. I have no idea. but going back to the idea of variables if you are going to do something that has any implicit risk - or in the case of high meat at least takes alot of pain int he ass effort (particularly if you don't have a 1st floor kitchen) - why would you spend the 2+ months or so doing something fairly arduous which may not work out or could be harmful due to added x uncontrolled variables...
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I think AV may have started using jars as a way to make high meat without bugs, perhaps it is the aversion to insects that is the main issue.
My open air rotted meat does get dry on the out side , but on the interior there is the development of some of the tastiest and most biological active high meat I have made. Perhaps methods could be developed to keep it in high humidity so that it can rot more completely.
There may not be any method to the "madness" of current prevalent rotten meat techniques. It breaks down just as well in the open air as it does in properly aired jars, as long as the chunk is large enough that the crust over the surface locks in the moisture. The only issue with meat that its exposed to the open air is ;" it will get maggots", and I think that Bugs were the reason for beginnings of Jar high meat. Trust me its not for the taste, my open air high meat taste so much better than any jar high meat I have ever made.
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I think AV may have started using jars as a way to make high meat without bugs, perhaps it is the aversion to insects that is the main issue.
My open air rotted meat does get dry on the out side , but on the interior there is the development of some of the tastiest and most biological active high meat I have made. Perhaps methods could be developed to keep it in high humidity so that it can rot more completely.
There may not be any method to the "madness" of current prevalent rotten meat techniques. It breaks down just as well in the open air as it does in properly aired jars, as long as the chunk is large enough that the crust over the surface locks in the moisture. The only issue with meat that its exposed to the open air is ;" it will get maggots", and I think that Bugs were the reason for beginnings of Jar high meat. Trust me its not for the taste, my open air high meat taste so much better than any jar high meat I have ever made.
no offence man, but is this something you heard AV or anyone else ever say?
"There are approximately 17 stages of bacterial developments. Airing the meat is required to progress the bacteria through the stages....."
-aajonous
i don't know what defines or constitutes a better product, i'm saying if you you are talkign about creation of 'high meat' you are talking about something more specific than ageing and decay. fruit will turn alcholic pretty quick left out of the fridge or exposed to sun, so will meats. The point of the container seems to be to cultivate something in a container instead of it moving freely in the surrounding environment, identical to any other cultureing, fermentation and lab stuff. obviously meats have different bacteria than vegetation and much of this is unknown, but we know with certainly that you can't ferment vegetation healthfully or at all in some cases without it being in a container.
(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/9697/img467311.jpg)
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/display-your-culinary-creations/high-meat-recipe-preparation-for-more-advanced-rafers/msg22344/#msg22344
more indepth discussion here of course for people who havn't read it.
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I may have heard or read someone say that the propose in making high meat in jars is to keep it away from bugs as well as to keep it from stinking up your house.
Such details are really a side note, please forgive me for making assumptions.( when you make an assumption you make an ass out of you and umption) ???
I never read AVs books personally, but I thought his first experience with high meat came from the Inuit, so I assume it wasn't rotted in jars, and also assumed that he began making it in jars more out of convenience than for its superior quality, and perhaps to keep bugs off or to keep it from drying out.
All I am saying is, If you use a 5 pound chunk and age it in a cool moist place, then it has the potential to turn out better in taste and overall quality quality than jar meat.( of course no one can really argue these matters of taste) All I am suggesting is that for other high meat connoisseurs to give my method a try, if they are wanting to experience the deliciousness I speak of, for themselves
The point is that I have been making and using high meat for over a year now and I am putting my word out, that I believe open air high meat has superior qualities to it than the jar made high meat. Its freaking delicious the way it gets a crust of dry meat on the outside with the inside turning rotten, and the maggots are a bonus in my opinion. The taste is superior and has a richness that's impossible to describe.
It may not be as potent as some completely composted Jar meat but the taste is so much better that I can eat a larger amount and get the same effect.
I used a 5 pound chunk of meat and kept it in my shed for about 2 months during average temperatures ranging from 40 to 60 degrees. The humidity was also fairly high.
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Right, but its not like some esoteric mystery. You can actually read about the inuit or other cultures that ferment meat and look at the processes of ageing meat and those of traditional open air drying and the obvious differences. There's been a few discussions on this site and at dirtycarnivore that include other traditional peoples and their methods. Some dry meat out of the reach of animals, some specifically ferment meat in containers.
a container doesn't have to be a jar. often traditional peoples burried it in the ground and other such places that wouldn't be removed necessarily from insects but regulate oxygen in some capacity. This is what they do with tubers and other such foods or other plant alcohols that equally DO break down sitting in a room, just not as particularly useful food or medicine.
basically when you say "open air high meat" your are talking about aging meat in a room with higher surface area and at a higher and more variable temperature than traditonal dry aged beef hung on hooks. ageing meat tends to have alot of support behind taste and positive attributes for people with digestive issues but that doesn't mean its for the same reasons as proper fermentation. It wasn't uncommon prior to refrigeration to have meat lockers and meat sheds etc and to air dry meat and sausages for long periods of time. I don't think this is the same as culturing bacteria in an enclosed and regulated environment.
The inuits probably had not a huge insect problem and weren't too concerned with smell for that matter and like many people outside of civilization had all kinds of things sitting around 'rotting' in some capacity as well as the meats they specifically prepared and fermented.
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the issue is the idea that this isn't actually meat decaying in the wild. particularly if someone is using a jar..being outside the fridge is probably super risky particulary if one doesn't know what its supposed to smell or taste like. Some of the ideas i've read just seem scary and seem like weird excuses so their parents they live with don't see it or something..its petty wacked. I could probably buy some expired cut meat from the store (which yes, actually is bad for you), put it in a plastic bag and pin it to a clothesline or something and within days it would probably smell and look ranker than anything one would typically eat, but there is huge dismissal of wisdom as well as common sense to do that.
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(http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk1/sarahab88/Picture032.jpg)
This is my chunk of meat before me and the maggots started eating on it. I still claim that this is the best tasting stuff ever. It's basically meat aged at higher temperatures. I have already eaten half of this chunk of semi rotted meat and I feel as good as ever. I just don't see any risk to doing it this way, based on my personal experience.
Side note, this meat was started a couple of months ago back when it did get below freezing at night so it did actually freeze solid and thaw out on several different occasions, before it finally got warm enough to rot more completely and harbor maggots
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After buying much too liver at once, the warm, high desert air and plethora of flies got to it; the liver began to decompose at a rapid pace and the meat became infested quickly.
Following sabertooth's lead, I'm going to experiment with maggot infested high meat and see if I can dig it or not.
I'll be taking small bits of the liver at my liking hence forward.
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QUOTE:
sabertooth
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Re: High meat from prefrozen meat?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2011, 02:08:33 PM »
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I like open air high meat, the only problem is that in the spring time the maggots take over. And yet perhaps the maggots help speed up the process, I am still new to using maggot meat, but it seems to work just as good as regular high meat. Its kind of weird n especially if you get a maggot crawling back up your throat. but so far no negative effects.
REPLY:
Must be best way with high meat as 'maggots help speed up process', also enhance flavor and add to nutrient quality. Flies provide all this benefit free, and should therefore be welcomed on our meat, fish and poultry rather than excluded from it as so many choose to do! Well worth trying and enjoying!