Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Health => Topic started by: goodsamaritan on May 17, 2011, 10:59:30 pm
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I observe that humanity is at a breaking point.
We are at the "children of men" scenario.
Global statistics show fertility rates are failing and failing miserable far below replacement levels.
Getting on raw paleo diet now for some time and I see things differently.
Fertility rates are not just low because people have become contraceptive these days.
Fertility rates are low because the women these days are WEAK.
We all see how hopelessly nutritionally deficient "normal" people's diets are.
Women do not grow up with enough nutrition to bear multiple children these days and not without medically assisted delivery.
Women are afraid of getting pregnant... because they don't have enough nutritional resources to count on.
Women these days cannot even IMAGINE 8 to 12 babies as their grandmas and great grandmas once did... even with all the money in the world... they don't have the health for it.
The entire monogamy thing is now useless as a strategy for reproductive success unless you can get a wife who is paleo diet educated and fed who is nutritionally sound and fit for multiple child birth.
Now I'm just keen on feeding my girl a lot of nutritious food. One day, she may have the strength of her grandma and great grandmas to easily and wantonly bear many children.
Please chime in with your thoughts and POVs.
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Well, I agree and disagree.
I do weight lifting and eat zero carb paleo, so I am lean and strong, not fat and soft like most women. That said, you know that I do not want to get pregnant and have children. I just do not feel maternal, and I have life goals that conflict with child rearing. I have not ruled out adoption in the future.
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While I agree that nutritional deficiency is statistically rampant, both men and woman are affected. Using this to look at fertility rates presents only a fraction of the whole picture.
I live in urban California, where there is extraordinary cultural diversity. My observation is that family-size expectations are driven by cultural patterns and perceived financial ability. It would take some sophisticated statistical sampling to find family-size correlations based on nutritional factors alone.
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Women dont seem to want kids much these days because they're mostly feminists. Even if they don't call themselves feminists they have still been taught it. Having children is considered weak for a woman to do. They have had unpleasant experiences themselves as a child and so they don't want children. American society does not view raising children as it used to, unless they are religious. I want to have at least 4 sons and a couple of daughters myself as soon as my boyfriend says it's okay to.
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Women dont seem to want kids much these days because they're mostly feminsts. Even if they don't call them selves feminists they have still been taught it. Having children is considered weak for a woman to do. They have had unpleasant experiences themselves as a child and so they dont want children. American society does not view raising children as it used to, unless they are religious. I want to have at least 4 sons and a couple of daughters myself as soon as my boyfriend says its okay to.
I had the most wonderful childhood you could ever imagine. But I remember being 5 or so and thinking that I did not want to be a mother.
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Women dont seem to want kids much these days because they're mostly feminists. Even if they don't call themselves feminists they have still been taught it. Having children is considered weak for a woman to do. They have had unpleasant experiences themselves as a child and so they don't want children. American society does not view raising children as it used to, unless they are religious. I want to have at least 4 sons and a couple of daughters myself as soon as my boyfriend says it's okay to.
I always remember how miserable it was to have only one sibling. It's more fun to have lots of brothers and sisters.
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I always remember how miserable it was to have only one sibling. It's more fun to have lots of brothers and sisters.
I have a younger sister. I like having just one sibling. I was not alone--we are 3 years apart--but we had individual space, time with our parents, our own rooms, etc. I would not want to be just one of many, stuck like sardines in a can.
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Global statistics show fertility rates are failing and failing miserable far below replacement levels.
I find that fact incompatible with a growing global population.
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I find that fact incompatible with a growing global population.
Basic stats Kyle.
The fertility rates go down below replacement levels first... then there is a lag... and then absolute population numbers go down.
Absolute population numbers are declining in Russia and Japan as examples. Check em out.
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i think bigger families are better for these reasons:
comradery
a stronger family unit
they can look out for each other better
less likely for parents being too controlling and involved in their lives.
Of course with a large family it is almost always best to have a stay at home mother, and alot of women arent into that. and of course the father would have to have a pretty good job to take care of all of them. But thats what i'm hoping for my future.
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My girl is just 6 years old.
I'm trying to give her the most nutritious stuff I can get. She's on semi raw weston price (no dairy). Her only non paleo input is organic rice. Hopefully she becomes strong and healthy like her grandma... 8 kids... and she really wanted all of those.
Looking to find her a strong husband as well.
I want her to get married beginning 18 years old
Don't want her to get in the "sex market" (today's dating is segmented into: sex market and marriage market)
I want her marriage market only.
Candidates can start applying when she's 17, some 11 years from now.
Male must have good income my daughter can concentrate on being mother and wife to many grandchildren. She'll grow up paleo knowledgable, won't be surprised if she's raw paleo by that time.
Hopefully there will be paleo dating websites by that time. :)
Seriously!
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You're such a romantic! ;)
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Basic stats Kyle.
The fertility rates go down below replacement levels first... then there is a lag... and then absolute population numbers go down.
Absolute population numbers are declining in Russia and Japan as examples. Check em out.
I don't believe those are because of fertility. I believe that there is lowering fertility but not to the point where a significant amount of people cannot conceive. Imo the reason population is stagnant or dropping in industrialized nations is that there is simply more to do these days than work and raise a family. Also because of central banking raising children, even providing for yourself, is becoming more expensive, so many cannot afford it or don't want to sacrifice the level it would take.
When I look around I see no one that I know of that is having trouble conceiving. In my generation of my family two of my female cousins have 3 sons each, two ex-girlfriends have 2 sons each. My mother actually had trouble conceiving me, having miscarriages until I was born. But that was almost 3 decades ago now...
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I think the prevalence of lower fertility just scratches the surface of a greater issue, which is a genuine weakening of the feminine resolve to raise strong and healthy children. I am personally aspiring to the noble effort of reversing this trend within my own progeny(just as the good Samaritan is trying to do). So far I have three daughters to raise into the strong mothers of the post paleo revolution. The obstacles are huge and there is no guarantee that such efforts will be successful, but I will do what I can.
There are stories of a bygone era where strong armed farm working women reared 12 kids or more on the fat of the land. One story in particular sums up my Ideal of what a strong woman can do. This man I knew told me about how his grandparents lived about 80 years ago. His grandfather grew up in a farming community where everyone worked and everyone raised large a family, so the idea of marriage and family life was conditioned into the whole community at a young age. By the time he was eight years old he had already picked out his future wife, a girl that was three years younger and lived on a farm down the road. He waited until he was 18 years old to go up to the girls father to make his intentions known, and they got married shortly after. So she was about 16 by the time they married (barley fully grown) . They soon started a family and after a few years of hard work raising children on a dairy farm she grew to be about as physically strong as any man and developed wide shoulders like a line backer. There was even a story about her physically throwing a doctor out of her house because he was giving her husband bad treatment. Anyway she ended up having 12 children of her own. Her grandson(the man who told me this story) was born premature and was barley 4 pounds, in those days he would of surly died, if not for his grandmothers efforts. She placed him in a goose egg incubator and gave him droppers of expressed breast milk night and day, for weeks, until he was strong enough for his mother to take care of him.
I often wonder if being able to pick such a prolific mate and caring mother is a matter of luck or craft. To be able to pick out a woman that will let you breed her throughout the fertile years is a challenge, especial in this new age of reproductive austerity. I personally decided to pursue my brood mare after finding out that she was the kind of woman who would love to raise a family. So Perhaps old Sabertooth got lucky when finding a hell cat to produce his litter of cubs, or there may be some greater force behind the whole thing. What ever the nature of the situation is( dumb luck or fruits of a righteous conquest?), I would like to make the most of what knowledge I have available and use it to raise the type of daughters that would be able to raise twelve children if they so chose.
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So that brings us to the question, of how to raise the strong mothers of tomorrow in a society where it is no longer fashionable to have children . Of course there is another problem , how would you gear a young daughter to seek out such a life and to pick out such a mate that would allow for the best chance of a good life for the grandchildren. These are really important questions that require further discussion.
Of course at the backbone of the plan to build a strong mother we need the most optimal of nutrition, as well as to find ways to avoid exposure to the hormone disruptive chemicals that are damaging to the maternal soul. Even if exposure to chemical pollution doesn't cause out right infertility, it can reduce the maternal capacity in ways that cannot be measured.(even the eagles who were exposed to DDT and still managed to hatch a healthy egg, often were made apathetic and neglectful of their offspring by the hormone disrupting effects of the pesticide. The same thing happens in humans although its not well documented. The fact that women today may be able to conceive and birth a child is only part of the fertility issue, the other part deals with the maternal drive. The instinct of motherhood is interconnected to the overall endocrine health of a woman and women who are polluted with endocrine disrupting chemicals may still be able to give birth, but afterward are more prone to neglect their offspring and not build the type of relationship that is required to produce the ideal human being. This is an issue that is at the heart of the debate of why women are weaker and have less interest in raising baby's these days. A woman who is in prime hormonal health should have a body and mind that desperately craves insemination.
So raising the future mothers on a more natural diet that is void of pollution is at the top of the list of things to do. Of course this leads us to the next problem, what do you do once you have raised a daughter on paleo nutrition and then like clockwork they develop the biological craving to get pregnant , often before a suitable mate has been vetted. This is where the parental nightmare begins. What can one do to insure that your daughters wont get knocked up by the first gutter tramp that feeds them smooth a pick up line. There has to be something one can do to at least encourage a more discerning heart. Instead of locking them up and telling them how awful so in so is . History proves that such negative reinforcements often fail miserably. Perhaps fathers should be taking the time to point out good examples of what a hard working man is to their daughters , and teach them about what makes a good man a good man.
I am lucky enough to have a woman who practices attachment parenting and my older two girls have always seen her with a baby in her arms and so they mimic her by trying to nurse and change their dolls. They are already baby crazy and for all I know each of my daughters would be capable of raising 12 kids if they were so inclined.
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Awesome post, Sabertooth.
Maybe the dating websites can help refine our search for great husbands for our daughters:
- interested in real marriage
- interested in lots of children
- has financial strength
- dedication to family till death do they part
- healthy!
And for the naysayers of barefoot and pregnant, with the power of the internet these days, women no longer need choose between baby making / mothering early and career and education.
Marrying at 18 and being an internet marketer at the same time is a cinch. Young mother can supplement hard working business man husband. Even out earn him.
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Women are afraid of getting pregnant... because they don't have enough nutritional resources to count on.
Sad but true in many cases. I was concerned about getting pregnant for a few years because my back soft tissue was so deteriorated (and meager) that I "knew" I'd be crippled by it, if I went through a pregnancy then. Not all women are weaker than the last generation, it depends on what resources they had, luck, which genes they inherited and more.
Many men too may be too weak these days with today's diet and toxic environment to trust themselves to be father material.
.. In my generation of my family two of my female cousins have 3 sons each, two ex-girlfriends have 2 sons each. My mother actually had trouble conceiving me, having miscarriages until I was born. But that was almost 3 decades ago now...
My aunt by marriage had fertility problems, but eventually did make me cousins and they had children no problem. My side was more fertile though, so that could account for the change.
. She'll grow up paleo knowledgable, won't be surprised if she's raw paleo by that time.
Hopefully there will be paleo dating websites by that time. :)
Seriously!
I wish there were paleo dating services now. It can really help if the person you date considers your diet at least normal. Many people take diet as a joke and eat whatever's easiest. My partner bought packaged bread with dairy in the ingredients and calls himself vegan for health. I guess that's why women are usually better at running the home kitchen.
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haha, so glad i was born a man, so that im only expected to work... and not have 12 children, and work... haha.
When you live a hard life, your body grows hard. But there is a reason that people are not still living in tents and caves (well i suppose i live in a tent, but whatever) and thats because its not comfortable. You get wet and cold and hungry and sore, cut up and bruised.. and thats great fun for a weekend camping trip, but after YEARS of doing it, its just life, and yes, you get used to it... but that warm (reliable) meal and soft bed start looking pretty damn nice when bugs are driving you crazy and mother nature isnt stuffing food down your throat.
When you dont have to slug it out in the field, you have more time to appreciate your life and enjoy art and music and conversation.. I guess women get to do that while they're sitting around beading and letting their el nino's suck on them.. but mabye they want a little more in their lives? mabye they would like to have the same kind of opportunity as men?
I dont even know how to say what im trying to say. I guess im just jaw-dropped that you honestly think a woman's purpose is to breed and cook and do the things that men think women should do. I think we should move the human race FORWARD, but i guess going forwards isnt 'paleo'... haha.
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I dont even know how to say what im trying to say. I guess im just jaw-dropped that you honestly think a woman's purpose is to breed and cook and do the things that men think women should do. I think we should move the human race FORWARD, but i guess going forwards isnt 'paleo'... haha.
Have you seen the fertility rates in the big urban cities of the world? Fertility rate of 1 or less, maybe 1.5 in Manila.
If these barren women aren't giving birth to the future, then some BETTER WOMEN are needed... or there is no future.
I'm not committing my sons to marry a woman who will merely give me 1 human grandchild or a dog or a cat. What am I raising my sons for? Those women do not deserve monogamy.
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Moving the human race forward by limiting reproduction is just a bunch of transhuminist Bologna. Human beings were designed by nature to reproduce and to live within a family of loved ones. No amount of money, economic freedom or social progress can take the place of the satisfaction of living in harmony with a family of loved ones. Once People (man or woman) begin to abandon the idea of a familial centered life and begin to indulge in more self centered activities then they lost the bonds that were designed by nature to keep the circle of life rolling.
The writing is on the wall as far as I am concerned about how the modern family has been destroyed by progress, and these homes that consist of 1.5 parent and 1.5 children are not fit for providing the proper environment for human beings. Of course the broken home and distant family mode of life has already become an integral part of modern society so it may even be viewed as progress by those who have adopted this newfangled way of life. Humans can and will adapt to about anything, so I am not condemning those who wish to live differently from my personal nostalgic ideals. I am just a bit skeptical of the idea that human nature can be rewritten .
There is also this idea that if a woman raises a large family the she will miss out on all that modern society has to offer, well from my POV, there are a lot of things that suck about modern society. You can keep your worldly women for all I care and I will happily cling to my old fashioned girl and my caveman views.
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having large families is a symptom and luxury of lock and key style civilization...so its not exactly our natural urge to have (and raise anyway) as many children as possible. When people can store resources and wealth removed from labor they start to overreach their boundaries. With indigenous people being either nomadic or static is just not feasible to have constantly expanding generations and historically its those that exploit resources which have overpowered those that live naturally. So often these arguments are just a mix of traditionalist thinking being confused as 'natural' like the idea that "sex is just for procreation"..even though plenty of animals engage in sex for pleasure..then humans are supposed to be more refined or something..constant contradictions there.
Its just not practical in nature or in present civilization for most people to have lots of children. The largest booms of course tied to explosions of wealth, technology, land distribution and exploitation of resources or in skirting the likely death of many offspring due to harsh circumstance or industrial problems of that wealth. That and just plain lack of birth control. Also included would be regal or religious zealotry (as observed today in Muslims, Jewish, and Christian sects) in terms of breeding out other races and beliefs. Not exactly great company.
However since plenty of people cannot seem to raise children healthfully or opt out, there plenty of room for people to choose AS INDIVIDUALS to have many children if they can support them. The assumptions on value systems and such i'd still say is pretty questionable as women as little as 100s of years ago essentially just had zero rights (sometimes even not a choice in mate at all)..and with no massive media network still could understand that things were not exactly copacetic.
I think what is objectionable or amoral is instilling ideas into children that they need to do this or that..this is likely what made people rebel against such..have shit relationships..family life etc because they were doing what they thought was right as opposed to what they wanted..I can only guess you instil proper values in general as far as respect and understanding that they will mature to seek out meaningful relationships that they find appropriate.
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I hope a lot of these women run away, get educated, and become doctors or whatever they dream of being, and the men sit masturbating at home.
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I hope a lot of these women run away, get educated, and become doctors or whatever they dream of being, and the men sit masturbating at home.
What you don't realise is that by not having children, you are making way for those individuals/cultures that are having lots of children. One guy recently stated that because Moslems were having far more children while their Western counterparts were refusing to have such children, that eventually Europe and other such areas would become dominated by Islamic Fundamentalists along with their female-subduing culture. OK, I am as guilty as you in that regard re not having children.
Having lots of children, anyway, does not guarantee a loss of women's rights. For example, I once did some interesting research on polygamous women from the Independent wing of the Mormon Fundamentalists, who routinely have something like 7-8 children each. Such women, despite sharing 1 husband with several other women, benefitted more than a wife in a monogamous marriage, because they were able to share the wife's responsibilities among the other wives, so could hand over child-caring responsibilities to another wife while still pursuing a career etc. Admittedly, this only worked well for the women if there were no more than 2 or 3 wives in the polygamous relationship. More than 3, and the women naturally started to benefit less.
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I hope a lot of these women run away, get educated, and become doctors or whatever they dream of being, and the men sit masturbating at home.
that's mean :(
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I hope a lot of these women run away, get educated, and become doctors or whatever they dream of being, and the men sit masturbating at home.
yep reach useless feminist career goals that no males care about and then get to 30...35...40 realise whats really important (family) and find out they are not fertile. Eggs are in bad shape.
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I don't believe those are because of fertility. I believe that there is lowering fertility but not to the point where a significant amount of people cannot conceive. Imo the reason population is stagnant or dropping in industrialized nations is that there is simply more to do these days than work and raise a family. Also because of central banking raising children, even providing for yourself, is becoming more expensive, so many cannot afford it or don't want to sacrifice the level it would take.
When I look around I see no one that I know of that is having trouble conceiving. In my generation of my family two of my female cousins have 3 sons each, two ex-girlfriends have 2 sons each. My mother actually had trouble conceiving me, having miscarriages until I was born. But that was almost 3 decades ago now...
I know of plenty couples who are trying and they have been trying for years. I would say half have problems. I'm talking average age 33 years here.
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We need a paradigm shift
Womens strength can be found within the matriarchy. Once women abandon the power of the matriarch in order to compete with the patriarchs in the mans world, then they lose much of their true strength and value. These values are completely lost on most feminist these days. The grandmother in my story was an example of a strong matriarch. She raised twelve children and then took part in the lives of her grand children and manged to live self sufficiently after her husband died until she was in her 90s. She made all the medicines for the family and canned foods for winter and brewed dandelion wine. Everyone in the community relied on her for guidance and they all respected her strength.
He sums up the Ideals of matriarchy fairly well , please listen to what he says, it's profound on many levels.
He talks about finding a balance with the woman. This is at the heart of my own efforts to make peace with my own squaw.
"The patriarch hasn't graduated from the cave he has a caveman mentality."
Russel Means
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKbkJFJCmK0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIPh597XMjI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM36A3FbzY4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0AaWxn91E0&feature=related
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My mother in law married my father in law in the USA and had their first child there.
When they were offered migration to the USA, they turned it down and instead went back to Manila.
Why?
Answer: For the sole purpose that both she and her husband wanted more children and in the part of the US where they were, they found it impossible to reach their goal of more children. They went back to Manila and my mother in law gave birth to a total of 8 children.
Mother in law began her career after after her 4th child and she's got a hell of a swinging career today in her 70s.
She can do 8 kids and career in Manila because of maids. (sorta like additional housewives without sexual involvement)
My idol of a strong grandma.
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I'm confused as to why people seem to be putting value in their lifestyle choice (having lots of kids or not) and not putting value in others.
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The old man who told me the story about his matriarchal grandmother also told me about his grandfather the boy who at eight years old had already picked out the wife of his children. According to the story the grandfather had some admirable traits, but where he was messed up he was messed up. He had his own set of values that were extremely inflexible and he could often be an insensitive Jerk. Who is to say why people value the things they do or why some people have a carnival of conflicting values such as the ones I often express, I doubt there can be an easy answer.
I once talked to a man who had also had 4 children within 5 years with the woman he loved as I have done and he just called it "Mad Love" . Once you fall in love with building a family life then all other values fall by the way side, nothing else seems as important as it once did, and those who are stricken with this Mad Love can have a hard time understanding why others don't value it as they do.
Perhaps I miss understand the question?
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I'm confused as to why people seem to be putting value in their lifestyle choice (having lots of kids or not) and not putting value in others.
We are just sharing our OWN hopes and dreams.
Our hope and dreams for our OWN children.
Observing the reality, the fact that fertility rates are down down down.
Fertility rates through the decades in the Philippines:
(http://www.myhealthblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/philippine-total-fertility-rate-graphs.gif)
So as parents, it would be the height of irresponsibility to see data and observation that Pied Piper had taken away all the children and future children; and do nothing for the sake of our own children.
I hope a lot of these women run away, get educated, and become doctors or whatever they dream of being, and the men sit masturbating at home.
Masquerading as women vs men folly. This is classic symptom of anti-children / anti-future mindset. Something I have to watch out for for my children and warn them about. Irresponsible parents who do not teach their children positive values will be brainwashed with negative values such as this classic example.
Who is the Pied Piper? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pied_Piper_of_Hamelin
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The reason for such high birth rates in the past was because most of the children died before puberty. Now, everyone is living longer and surviving to adulthood, so high birth-rates(more than 2.5) are not needed any more.
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Well if we're saying our opinions, mine would be that I see life as an opportunity to do things you want to do. If you want to have children and that is fun or pleasurable for you then I would do it, but it seems to me that most people look at it as a job or responsibility to guarantee the future of human kind. I couldn't care less if there are or are not humans on this planet thousands of years from now and am not going to sacrifice any of my scarce time and energy to put a little brick in the wall for the future of humanity. It just seems redundant, you're born and grow up just to reproduce as much as possible. It's like the life of livestock. Of course if that is what makes the livestock or human most happy then it's a good thing, but I'm 26 and I feel right now I would rather play music, travel, play video games or whatever rather than feed, clothe and nurture an infant all day.
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We are just sharing our OWN hopes and dreams.
Our hope and dreams for our OWN children.
The way I see your posts about this is treating lower fertility rates as a syndrome or disease condition, thus relegating someones potential lifestyle choice as a perversion, weakness or disease symptom.
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The way I see your posts about this is treating lower fertility rates as a syndrome or disease condition, thus relegating someones potential lifestyle choice as a perversion, weakness or disease symptom.
The current fertility rates in highly urbanized cities are far far below replacement.
It is the elephant in the room FACT of dying people, dying population.
Now some people would certainly choose for that to happen for themselves, such as klowcarb, and she WISHES this upon other people.
While I do not wish my dreams on other people. I factly state its for my own children.
Which puts me at a higher moral ground than klowcarb.
You are also on a higher moral ground than klowcarb because you speak of your current dreams for yourself and you don't wish it on others.
klowcarb said:
I hope a lot of these women run away, get educated, and become doctors or whatever they dream of being, and the men sit masturbating at home.
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Fertility rates, why parents should be concerned:
For example: JAPAN
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan
Total fertility rate of 1.2 for the entire nation. (2010)
fertility rate for tokyo is 1.02 in 2006
I live in the most highly urbanized city in my country, Manila. Current fertility rate in Manila to 1.6 ? And still going down. It's not far fetched that by 2040 the fertility rate in manila will be the same as Tokyo at 1.00.
My kids are in a clear and present danger say 20 to 30 years from now in their reproductive years. As a parent, I should be alarmed, I should take action.
Many years I taught my grandmother this FACT of the matter why I have to positively encourage children to get married early and have many children.
It is because times change. In my grandmother's time, they pestered their children not to get married early, to finish their studies, for career first, family later.
But the pendelum has swung TOO FAR.
The frog has been BOILED TO DEATH.
It is time to push the pendulum back to SANER levels.
And I'll start with my own blood line.
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says here "Japan faces the same problems that confront urban industrialized societies throughout the world: over-crowded cities and congested highways." Its like 3 people per square inch there. Perhaps its as simple as people not having the extra pod to stash a baby in or they can't even find a spare place above the washing machine to make love on. Even in the mainstream consciousness Japan is seen as having problems in this regard and using them as an example suggests that other places are in far less crisis yet this very link says population has gone down 0.22% last year and less than .5% in 5 years. Worldwide its true the growth RATE goes down but the expected population still increases to obscene projections, its just the rate of increase which is going down in some places and not even in others. The world has increased in population over 4 billion people or almost 5 times the size in the period since they invented photography, so this is hardly a significant decrease and any old ways clearly worked better in times where other rules applied. From a health perspective people are losing the ability to conceive a child naturally but this hardly impacts the eventual success through technologies, perseverance, or inexperienced young people deprived of birth control or common sense or other life goals or under the infulence of religion.
I think in its simplest form. many people here are or were recently in their teens, twenties, and early thirties and understand that making decisions like marriage and children (even with financial security which is not so common these days) is just not something one rushes into or often is even capable of dealing with at that age. This is based on basic observation of other people and honest assment of themselves which obviously would carry on to much younger people. Since people here are actually on a natural diet, are comparatively free of most general social programming and still have hangups about their own abilities to raise children properly I think that is pretty significant. Its certainly easier to say things should be a certain way when in fact they arn't that way.
growing up almost everyone in my lower middle class school came from broken homes. I knew very few people whos parents were still together. Most of these people were 2nd generation. so their parents were born here but were likely products of old world thinking and were one of many neglected children themselves. When I got to college was when there was actually a surprising number of people whos parents were still together. Often times it was because people came from more 'professional' households were their parents were much older when they conceived and likely wanted to have kids after much thought and planning and were not old-school. I remember soccer games and such where the parents were like in their late 20's or early 30's. When I me peoples parents in college they were always in their late 50's or 60's. Anyway, even now most of the people I went to college with are not married even though many are in monogamous relationships and like everyone I went to high school with is on their first or second marriage. its monkey see monkey do with this stuff. There is a natural urge to procreate but there is an intrinsic part of humanity that is about curiosity and experiences. People seek out partners and children to share experiences and to have new ones, not to split off cell fragments and form other amoebas.
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There is a "fools rush in where angels fear to tread" aspect to my current situation. Raising 4 kids and supporting a wife as well as an expensive dietary practice while on the verge of poverty may seem completely foolish to some. All I can say is that if you could only see for yourselves how the happiness that we experience every day "usually" balances out the stress and responsibility, then you would be able to truly understand what My wife and I are doing in this world. There is this great hope that we share of raising a new type of human being. Her being a crystal soul and me being bright glowing Indigo gives us the real opportunity to usher in the the new age of the Rainbow people.(scoff if you will, but I am fairly serious )
Perhaps I have been corrupted as the Donkey Knight Don Quixote by reading to much into the ideals of nobility and it has skewed my view of reality to the point of making myself ridiculous. I remember reading the Rainbow by D. H. Lawrence, when I was an awkward and nerdy teenager and just totally fallen head over heals for some of his ideas of love and family life that were expressed within the storyline.
"They knew the intercourse between heaven and earth, sunshine drawn into the breast and bowels, the rain sucked up in the daytime, nakedness that comes under the wind in autumn, showing the birds' nests no longer worth hiding. Their life and inter-relations were such; feeling the pulse and body of the soil, that opened to their furrow for the grain, and became smooth and supple after their ploughing, and clung to their feet with a weight that pulled like desire, lying hard and unresponsive when the crops were to be shorn away." (Chap. 1)
"Was his life nothing? Had he nothing to show, no work? He did not count his work, anyone could have done it. What had he known, but the long, marital embrace with his wife. Curious, that this was what his life amounted to! At any rate, it was something, it was eternal. He would say so to anybody, and be proud of it. He lay with his wife in his arms, and she was still his fulfillment, just the same as ever. And that was the be-all and the end-all. Yes, and he was proud of it."
— D.H. Lawrence (The Rainbow)
"Why, oh why must one grow up, why must one inherit this heavy, numbing responsibility of living an undiscovered life? Out of the nothingness and the undifferentiated mass, to make something of herself! But what? In the obscurity and pathlessness to take a direction! But whither? How take even one step? And yet, how stand still? This was torment indeed, to inherit the responsibility of one’s own life."
She saw in the rainbow the earth's new architecture, the old, brittle corruption of houses and factories swept away, the world built up in a living fabric of Truth, fitting to the over-arching heaven."
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yep reach useless feminist career goals that no males care about and then get to 30...35...40 realise whats really important (family) and find out they are not fertile. Eggs are in bad shape.
Right, because what men care about is the only thing that is important. Plus, you can adopt if you want.
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that's mean :(
It's mean to wish that women get the opportunity to decide what they want?
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What you don't realise is that by not having children, you are making way for those individuals/cultures that are having lots of children. One guy recently stated that because Moslems were having far more children while their Western counterparts were refusing to have such children, that eventually Europe and other such areas would become dominated by Islamic Fundamentalists along with their female-subduing culture. OK, I am as guilty as you in that regard re not having children.
Having lots of children, anyway, does not guarantee a loss of women's rights. For example, I once did some interesting research on polygamous women from the Independent wing of the Mormon Fundamentalists, who routinely have something like 7-8 children each. Such women, despite sharing 1 husband with several other women, benefitted more than a wife in a monogamous marriage, because they were able to share the wife's responsibilities among the other wives, so could hand over child-caring responsibilities to another wife while still pursuing a career etc. Admittedly, this only worked well for the women if there were no more than 2 or 3 wives in the polygamous relationship. More than 3, and the women naturally started to benefit less.
This is true only if I truly cared about the fate of humanity after I am gone, which is not a huge concern for me. I would wish for a smaller, more robust population of paleo eaters.
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My mother in law married my father in law in the USA and had their first child there.
When they were offered migration to the USA, they turned it down and instead went back to Manila.
Why?
Answer: For the sole purpose that both she and her husband wanted more children and in the part of the US where they were, they found it impossible to reach their goal of more children. They went back to Manila and my mother in law gave birth to a total of 8 children.
Mother in law began her career after after her 4th child and she's got a hell of a swinging career today in her 70s.
She can do 8 kids and career in Manila because of maids. (sorta like additional housewives without sexual involvement)
My idol of a strong grandma.
Now that is a powerful story of combining motherhood with the mother's wish for something outside just raising children. I could definitely support that.
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This is true only if I truly cared about the fate of humanity after I am gone, which is not a huge concern for me. I would wish for a smaller, more robust population of paleo eaters.
But what you'll get is future cultures with high birth-rates and large numbers and all of which will oppress women. But then your view is the same as a former, decadent French king who happily drove France to financial ruin, but who predicted the French Revolution that would thereby result, stating:- "apres moi, le deluge!"("after me, the flood!")
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It's mean to wish that women get the opportunity to decide what they want?
How about if I wrote your post the other way around?
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It's mean to wish that women get the opportunity to decide what they want?
I was referring to you wanting men to stay at home and masturbate or whatever. I'm assuming that's some kind of punishment you're wishing on the entire male population, not sure how else to take it.
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Back on topic
(http://www.myhealthblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/philippine-total-fertility-rate-graphs.gif)
I made a graph of the Philippines Total Fertility Rate per decade.
It's the same deal with other more "advanced" countries.
Our slope is steeper.
The TFR can be explained as a combination of:
- Contraceptive / Abortive Use (which brings down women's health because birth control hormones, IUDs, pills, patches, shots are all injurious)
- Less sexual activity (health related)
- Less probability of conceiving and bringing to term (health related, more fastfood, chemicals in food?)
- Popularity of c-sections (profit motive my the medical industry, incompetence of current women)
- Postponement of marriage to a later age... marrying age was legally raised from 14 to 18 in 1990
Anything else I missed?
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My GF's great grandparents had 23......
Not unusual in Quebec or Newfoundland at the time.
Bearing (pun intended) in mind that life was a bit different back then. Children were considered a necessity for managing chores and they were your pension plan and the church also demanded it.
2 boys is a nice number.
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Anything else I missed?
What about what I said, which is that there are more activities and things to spend money and time on than before, therefore less time and money is spent on raising children.
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Good idea.
And the exorbitant cost of children in an urban setting.
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Expensive in Australia. Average family home is US450 000, and that is in the middle of no where. It's expensive here GS. If you had four kids you would probably have to buy a 700 000 dollar house. We can't afford maids etc
Also our government taxes those who choose to raise their children through having a stay at home mum.
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Expensive in Australia. Average family home is US450 000, and that is in the middle of no where. It's expensive here GS. If you had four kids you would probably have to buy a 700 000 dollar house. We can't afford maids etc
Also our government taxes those who choose to raise their children through having a stay at home mum.
You get extra taxes if one spouse doesn't work? That's criminal.
The German and Austrian system is reversed, with special big tax-breaks if one spouse doesn't work, but huge extra taxes if the 2nd spouse also works, making it pointless for the wife to work, really.
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The less little brats running around, the better... -d