Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Hot Topics => Topic started by: Waldpfad on November 03, 2011, 03:33:40 am
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Fresh from the farmer I had duck eggs, pastured pork bacon, pumpkin and chestnuts. I thought this makes an awesome breakfast for fall and I have enough food to last me for the next 12 days for breakfast.
Chestnuts are boiled, rest is fried in bone marrow for added fats and minerals.
Chestnuts sure make an excellent snack, too.
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yum i need to get some farm eggs tomorrow, ive wanted warm squash and eggs with greens all week but i am homeless and transient right now, in between farms and seasons blaah, so havent had any eggs, but i have had liver and meat so i cant really complain:)! i had to leave the hogs i raised this summer before i got any bacon so i cant wait to get a hold of a little pasture fed bacon, hopefully for thanksgiving! id love to get a hold of soem chestnuts, they are delicious, are they local where you live? i havent seen them down here in the southwest:(
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Need I remind all concerned that it's a RAW food forum?
Cooking is one thing, but frying in bone marrow? You wasted good bone marrow, and frying is just a stupid cooking method anyway...it's very high heat.
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This will have to go to the Hot Topics forum. Moved there now.
Given the Primal Diet and Weston-Price Diet forums on this site, it is acceptable, I think, to post pictures/descriptions of raw dairy-oriented dishes on this forum, but including photos/descriptions of cooked foods is best left to the Hot Topics forum.
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I'm sorry for posting a cooked meal.
I thought the culinary arts was for all meals, cooked, raw, vegan, whatnot.
You can just erase the entire thread, it's cool. Won't post again here since I eat semi-raw only anyways.
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Why not talk to us about the raw aspects of your culinary creations?
It looks like you have some skill and if you discover some raw preparation styles that you would like to share, I sure would love to learn about them.
What if anything do you prepare raw and how?
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Nothing wrong with being semi-raw, it's just that the hot topics forum is the only suitable place for posting about cooked foods.
Hmm, perhaps since we already have 2 forums devoted to diets very high in raw dairy, we could also have 1 cooked-palaeodiet forum for the semi-raw. I'm not too much in favour, but if we allowed all of the above, I suppose we would probably have to have a raw vegan diet forum as well.
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Transition sections could be helpful to many I would suppose. If you had a raw vegan forum it might make work harder keeping out trolls, but might also attract people that are on the fence or open-minded and hence do some people a great deal of good. There is no place of safety for people that are considering adding even non-fertilized eggs or raw grass-fed dairy to their diets or even people that feel that fat is important or even that are attempting to eat as high fat as they can as vegans. People get inklings and on other forums are ostracized and attacked for even contemplating reaching outside of the boxes they find themselves in. It probably would also be quite an active section and could get into heated discussions - but it would create a place for those starting to think. Lots of upsides and downsides.
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Well, I'm not sure where I fit in because of my mixed way of cooking.
For example I cook my bacon in a pan then toss a raw egg yolk over the bacon on my plate.
I boil chestnuts because it's one of my native foods but can't be eaten raw, but then steam my veggies (leaving them semi raw) and crumble the chestnuts over my veggies to give them flavor (instead of using spices).
Or I make a plate of boiled cauliflour "rice" and chop raw salmon into it.
I fry onions in butter to toss into my raw salad but add raw crushed garlic into the mix to cleanse my blood of parasites. I eat red meat raw (elk, bison, beef), semi cook birds and rabbit but completely cook pork.
I brown oysters but leave the inside raw. Maybe I'm still in a transitioning phase from cooked to raw.
I'm not sure where I would fit in at this point.
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I think you are not alone here. I've read that some people sear the outside of their meat for instance and I read of others cooking some of their food - especially the vegetables. You just don't fit neatly into any one particular section is all.
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People get inklings and on other forums are ostracized and attacked for even contemplating reaching outside of the boxes they find themselves in. It probably would also be quite an active section and could get into heated discussions - but it would create a place for those starting to think. Lots of upsides and downsides.
If we ever did this, if, D could be the mod lol. There are some good members in other forums that I would hope would come over ... or perhaps other people out there are like them, having been afraid to post there even once. I think it would be kind of funny, having a vegan forum in the middle of here. I wonder how we'd treat them. By too many of them I was treated like a lion made to jump through more and more hoops just to jump through more. This one member over yonder was always so against me, then finally realized I really eat raw bird fat and wasn't just saying it. I was always carefully descriptive so they could get the most out of what I was saying, as no one seemed to eat anything near what I ate. I guess they didn't pay attention and assumed it was McDonalds' burgers and 24/7 at that! They say vegetarianism is enlightened and raw veganism even more so, but trolls in "those forums" (I'm thinking of one), as long as they harrass raw meat eaters, are typically extremely tolerated. Would we do the same??
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I sure hope it wouldn't be the same! But I think YOU would be the best mod Zi. ;)
There is this no man's land in-between raw veganism and making the first steps into trying some unfertilized raw eggs or some milk products - which to many would still be considered vegetarian. Remember how they thought I was you Zi when I even talked about eating chicken eggs? I betcha that there are a bunch that are starting to feel like they need more or if exposed would want to try some raw animal foods, but are still way too stabilized in a vegetarian stance to be able to come here and hence, they have few ways to learn. If it weren't for Phil and all he slowly made me aware of, I certainly would not have ever made it here........... hey - maybe if you don't want to be mod - PHIL could be the mod! :o Now THAT would be a hoot! l)
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I'm not against the idea of a vegan forum, but we'd probably need to make it so vegans could only post in that one area, and no other.
A transition forum might be a good idea too, but we would probably need to make it so transitioners could only post in that forum for the first 6 months or 300 posts, and could only post elsewhere after moderator approval,
Personally I think it would be a giant pain in the ass to moderate. The vegan trolling would be insane, and I fear we'd end up with more vegan trolling in our other forums than ever before, but maybe not.
I think I'm fine with just letting the curious transitioners treat this entire site as read-only, until they have at least a few months of RAF eating experience. However, experimenting with those forum types might not be bad.
We could maybe do the same with a cooked forum, but we would need to be extra strict about making pro-cooking posts only in that forum. Otherwise, we'd be overrun with idiots like Nina Planck and Sally Fallon and their followers. This is a raw food board, after all, not a raw dairy coop, a chat site, or a place for people who willingly eat white flour, etc..
I mean, this board is about being right, not about being nice. Sometimes you have to be a jerk to hold to the facts. Geoff and myself are perfect examples of that. I freely admit my jerkness, even as I also point out my correctness on a subject of great relevance, namely, health.
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........... hey - maybe if you don't want to be mod - PHIL could be the mod! :o Now THAT would be a hoot! l)
Aw, that's sweet of you D, but no thanks! I don't want that job. You're right Phil should be it. He was 100% zero carb for the longest! And still I think that's the majority of his diet. Few vegans would want that forum, methinks. =) and the ones that did stick around, a number of them would be serious about actually trying the raw animal food lifestyle. What a shame (being a little sarcastic here) we have such a great forum, and vegans can't express their veganness here.
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There is this no man's land in-between raw veganism and making the first steps into trying some unfertilized raw eggs or some milk products - which to many would still be considered vegetarian.
Yes, for them, that forum, that is the no man's land, the egg or milk, yet they tolerate people who eat those to some degree, as long as they never do raw meat ever even once, or do it and jump back on the vegan train (as if that happens?) Many of them spent years and years as vegetarian before they considered trying vegan for the first time. Plus they don't differentiate factory farmed from pasture only animal foods.
Me, it was modern farming of milk that turned me vegan. Not the health so much, but the slavery the factory milk animals live their life in and the calves taken at birth. I became vegan, cosmetics, toiletries and all, but it was the milk I considered worst at the core and source.
So, when I "went back to meat" (back is a kind of joke to me as I never ate like this before), I went back with full intention of eating any animal (except human), any part (except very pointy), any stage of decomposition etc. I didn't plan to take it any more step by step other than not introducing more than one "new" food in a week, and to as quickly as possible get all my new food groups in.
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Well, perhaps we could do a transitioners' forum for raw vegans/raw vegetarians and cooked palaeos who eat a little raw meats? I wouldn't mind references there to cooked dishes people were making or references to a semi-raw diet, but it would have to be understood that people couldn't write propaganda there such as "please don't eat meat because of the bad treatment of the poor little animals" or "cooking made us human", such should, at best, only go to the hot topics forum.
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After reading all the posts I have to admit, peoples diets is a sensitive subject, kinda like religion or politics.
For me, diet used to be a sensitive matter because I was addicted (unconciously) to sugar highs, especially things that combined sugar + caffeine like Coca Cola. If someone would've told me 2 years ago to stop drinking Coke, without telling me exactly Why, I would've laughed into their face and wave the subject off.
It took me getting seriously ill to get up and research on my own to what's causing my problems.
Now, as much as I know WHY to not cook foods (killing enzymes, denaturing proteins, killing friendly bacteria that mimic a virus, etc), I still have to cook or gently warm some in order to make it palatable to me.
I am what Dr. Peter D'Adamo would consider a 'Super-taster'. I can taste plant toxins immediately, sometimes even still after they've been cooked. The coffee and cacao bean has toxins that I can taste even after boiled to death. Kale and other green, leafy vegetables have toxins that I taste strongly if not at least boiled for 2 minutes. Egg whites if not cooked have an anti-nutrient in them that gives me a reaction in my throat. I had an anaphylactic shock once already, from egg whites...I just have to cook them, and leave the yolk, the most nutritious part raw. I cannot eat ANY nuts in their raw state, that's why I'm limited to chestnuts, which are boiled or roasted anyways, and all is good.
Chicken, Duck, Hens, etc, I heat the outside of the muscle, the area where the skin would be attached, but leave the inside near the bone raw. Reason is because I strip wild duck (from hunting season) ready for the freezer every year, and I found worms/parasites crawling along under the skin, within the slimey tissue of skin and muscle.
So, birds, regardless of what kind, get browned on the outside, regardless of how many enzymes I kill, or how many proteins I denature. I am looking right at the parasite, and I refuse to eat it, sorry.
Pork, for obvious reasons, I cook all the way. I grew up on pork and my grandmother and mother told me to always cook pork fully so I don't get a tapeworm. This wisdom has been passed on from generation to generation and I will follow it til the end of time. Weston Price always said there is much to learn from the 'old ways of eating'...and well this is the ONE thing I am listening to that my recent ancestors have taught me.
Fish, in order to be sold in stores in the US have to be frozen by law to kill parasites...so I was told by some meat guy in Fred Meyer. All fish therefor should be safe to be eaten raw, regardless of quality, so that is what I do. Oysters, I brown because being a 'Super-taster' I throw up from the high amount of salt. It seems to cling to the outside of the oyster, and since it's so delicate to wash under the sink, I throw the thing into a pan with warm butter and the salt taste disappears. Oyster will remain raw inside.
And since I can't do 0 carb, and don't want to always raise my blood sugar with (raw) fruit, I have nothing left but vegetables and those have to be steamed, cooked or boiled for me to consume them, squash is another one of my favorite in fall.
Because of the way I eat and semi-cook, it allows me to take in an extremely large variety of foods.
I like the cellulose broken down because I have severe digestive issues when the fibrous plant matter stays intact. Obstruction, constipation, hard stools, cramps and painful bowel movements.
Many would say, oh just juice them. I can't do that either because of my super taste buds...the salt I have to use to over write the toxic taste is just too great.
I am open for suggestions. I have my reasons for everything I do with foods, but if I'm missing something, or someone could give me more tips or info on anything, I much appreaciate it! :-)
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The Fred Meyer dude must have been talking about sushi restaurants in the US as only being able to sell fish pre-frozen to the public raw. Maybe he was saying he thought one had to eat prefozen fish if it was raw for that reason. Generally fish markets sell fish right off the boat as well as frozen fish. Lots of people eat literally all these foods you talk about raw AND unfrozen, but your logic is reasonable and appreciated.
I've certainly made meals like that and would prefer to do so on occasion to eating 10 bananas or something (even though I've eaten literally thousands of bananas and eat pretty much all raw for most of my food) but other people have different preferences or ideas on which things are harmful. I think people just think when you post such things (particularly as the start of a topic) it makes it seem like you are promoting something or that other people who visit think 'we' eat that way or something. If you have a journal it would certainly be appropriate and people could comment about substitutions or changes etc. I've included some cooked stuff like veggies IICR in some of my food journaling. If not, i'll post some more.
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I'm not against the idea of a vegan forum, but we'd probably need to make it so vegans could only post in that one area, and no other.
A transition forum might be a good idea too, but we would probably need to make it so transitioners could only post in that forum for the first 6 months or 300 posts, and could only post elsewhere after moderator approval,
Personally I think it would be a giant pain in the ass to moderate. The vegan trolling would be insane, and I fear we'd end up with more vegan trolling in our other forums than ever before, but maybe not.
I think I'm fine with just letting the curious transitioners treat this entire site as read-only, until they have at least a few months of RAF eating experience. However, experimenting with those forum types might not be bad.
We could maybe do the same with a cooked forum, but we would need to be extra strict about making pro-cooking posts only in that forum. Otherwise, we'd be overrun with idiots like Nina Planck and Sally Fallon and their followers. This is a raw food board, after all, not a raw dairy coop, a chat site, or a place for people who willingly eat white flour, etc..
I mean, this board is about being right, not about being nice. Sometimes you have to be a jerk to hold to the facts. Geoff and myself are perfect examples of that. I freely admit my jerkness, even as I also point out my correctness on a subject of great relevance, namely, health.
The "Personally I think it would be a giant pain in the ass to moderate." part of what you said Cherimoya is the real issue me thinks. It would take unlimited patience in explaining simple things over and over and reigning people in and being really on top of not letting people out of that section. It would sure take some serious time and commitment! That's why I suggested my friend Phil, because what are friends for? lol.
Zi - what better than to have a zero-carb dude be moderator for the raw vegan section? Talk about some strict moderation that would be! hee hee.
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Zi - what better than to have a zero-carb dude be moderator for the raw vegan section? Talk about some strict moderation that would be! hee hee.
Not necessarily. I'm "ZC" through and through yet find I'm pretty lenient to vegan/vegetarian discussion. I guess it's because I found my way to RAF through other means than raw vegan like many on the forum did. :)
I think a raw vegetarian or vegan sub-forum is a good idea if we can keep it respectful. There are still many benefits to a well thought out vegan/vegetarian diet but they just lack one big piece that we collectively have found truly useful.
I feel a transitional diet sub-forum is also a good idea. There are two main camps we seem to get people from; cooked paleo & raw vegan.If there was a hospitable place for people to just come and ask questions without worry of being ridiculed or demeaned it might be a real boon to many.
I don't get on here enough to cover things by myself but I've found so much good in this diet, and it's helped my health so tremendously, that I will volunteer the time I do have on here to be extra vigilant in these sub-forums if we do institute one or both. At the end of the day I want to help others if they're willing to take that first step to help themselves. :)
We would add it like this:
Raw Paleo Diet Forums:
Welcoming Committee
Info / News Items / Announcements
General Discussion
Exercise / Bodybuilding
Hot Topics
Health
Personals
Suggestion Box
Off Topic
Raw Paleo Diets:
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet
Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach
Wai Dieters
Instincto / Anopsology
Other Raw-Animal-Food Diets:
Primal Diet
Raw Weston Price
Transitionary Diets:
Raw Vegetarian/Vegan
Cooked Paleo (Do we include cooked Weston A. Price?)
Raw Paleo Diet Gallery:
Display Your Culinary Creations
Members' Journals
Members Only:
Before and After Photos
Exercise Gallery
Politics / Spirituality / Philosophy
Health
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And on the topic of oversight/moderation I feel that if we did create a vegan or vegetarian sub-forum that Skinny Devil would be an ideal face to lead it. He's eating almost vegetarian now but with some meat tossed in here and there. He's also in great shape and has a great outlook on life. Exactly who you want helping folks with that next step showing them it's not so scary. Then again I don't know if he's able to commit much time either.
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Hey Dan - I was being tongue-in-cheek about Paleo Phil as he was the one who over years demonstrated calm loving and respectful information to my raw vegan self and therefore the reason I am here. Just bantering a bit with Zi as we both know he's a doll.
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Hey Dan - I was being tongue-in-cheek about Paleo Phil as he was the one who over years demonstrated calm loving and respectful information to my raw vegan self and therefore the reason I am here. Just bantering a bit with Zi as we both know he's a doll.
It's getting to be time for bed. I caught it at first and then responded at face value without thinking. It's all good; Phil knows we love him. :)
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And on the topic of oversight/moderation I feel that if we did create a vegan or vegetarian sub-forum that Skinny Devil would be an ideal face to lead it. He's eating almost vegetarian now but with some meat tossed in here and there. He's also in great shape and has a great outlook on life. Exactly who you want helping folks with that next step showing them it's not so scary. Then again I don't know if he's able to commit much time either.
Transitionary Diets:
Raw Vegetarian/Vegan
Cooked Paleo (Do we include cooked Weston A. Price?)
The thing is if you have a vegan/veg forum within a transitional subheading obviously it demeans the diet as an actual practice and you aren't going to be attracting the right kind of people but just endless arguments about whether a veg diet is workable.
Better off just having a forum that is a transitional forum and a separate veg forum or even better yet just ONE general sub-forum which is heavily moderated from purists but isn't labeled transitional specifically.
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As complained before by various people the existing breakdown and very important 'order' apparently already makes no sense for various reasons that aren't necessary to get into right now.
It might as well just have in the same listing (in whatever 'order' people don't cry about)
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet
Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach
Wai Dieters
Instincto / Anopsology
Primal Diet
Raw Weston Price (nix as it isn't technically a diet practiced by anyone on the forum or proposed by any WAPF people not to mention contradicts Price's findings ).
In its place:
Other Diets & Transitional Approaches
(with the same caveat listed as hot topics "Raw vegan and Fruitarian topics may be discussed here but only here.")
or The Raw Paleo Diet
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet
Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach
with a new box with perhaps no heading
Wai Dieters
Instincto / Anopsology
Primal Diet
Other Diets & Transitional Approaches
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could care less if this happens or not though, as likely no matter what most peoples rationalizations and approaches won't be tolerated, as per the already accepted non-'paleo'/raw ideas on this site.
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I am open for suggestions. I have my reasons for everything I do with foods, but if I'm missing something, or someone could give me more tips or info on anything, I much appreaciate it! :-)
I've got a suggestion. Frying is for idiots. I think you know that it's the worst possible way to cook, and you're deliberately choosing it to get attention. Surely you're not ignorant or stupid enough to do it otherwise, hmm?
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I value this forum for its "raw paleo diet"-ness. That seems to be the main idea, and it has been very useful for its intended purpose. What I like best about rawpaleodietforum is that it has a clear focus.
I do not understand what purpose would be served by side-lights on topics such as "cooked" or "vegan". To me, that would make it harder to find the information that brought me here.
Also, I find it hard to understand the concept of transitioning. Instead of transitioning by adding a dab of raw to a cooked diet, I suggest jumping in for a few weeks and seeing how that goes. I made a 2-week commitment at first, then re-enlisted for another 30 days... by which time I had enough experience and good results that I decided to keep raw paleo going indefinitely.
My 2 cents worth. Thank you.
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Some observations:-
1) The Raw Weston-Price Diet forum was, initially, just an idea to get people to transition to a raw, palaeolithic diet away from WAPF ideas re cooking etc.
We need to include a Raw Weston-Price Diet forum as WP was a major influence on RVAF diets. Sure, he also recommended a lot of cooked foods, and I don't think it's the end of the world to discuss the less harmful types of cooking that WP recommended re boiling etc. in that very forum.
We should probably allow just 1 extra "transitioning" forum so that people who are slowly switching from raw vegan or cooked-palaeodiets can ask about less harmful types of cooking or which raw animal foods are the easiest to get used to and the like.
While people like me prefer to switch suddenly to a RVAF diet, others prefer to take it slowly, gradually reducing the cooking-temperature and sauces over weeks/months until they can eat/enjoy raw meats on their own at room-temperature. Some claim that the latter method slows down the usual detox that accompanies a sudden switch to a RVAF diet.
SkinnyDevil has already refused moderatorship before, due to other commitments.
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If there was a transitioning forum maybe my husband would join. Not everyone can or wants to jump right in but is open.
As for the vegetarian raw animal foods and vegan section - I think KD is right and it would have to be it's own separate forum accepting it as what it is with strict moderation to not mess around elsewhere or do some animal rights or spiritually superiority shenanigans. I would enjoy such a forum as before trying to help my husband I was loving eating my raw vegan diet with raw eggs yolks, dairy and some fish every long once in a while with the vast majority of my diet usually plant-based. I think that seems to be where I will probably be heading almost back to eventually except that a small amount of meat and marrow seem to have taken the place of raw dairy. But first priority is to get hubbie really established on raw meat-based paleo. My body is still being drawn to eating basically what I did on a raw vegetarian diet with some new options and here is the only place I can learn about those new options that I could find and I want to learn more about fish and meat even more so for my husband's transition to a more standard meat-based raw paleo diet. I can't be the only person who's body likes a primarily plant-based diet but who wants to know and is open-minded about all raw options available. Maybe the section should NOT be vegan, "but raw paleo vegetarian" - meaning all degrees of vegetarian from vegan up to ovo, lacto, pesco vegetarianism? I betcha that many that eat meat once a week or once a month or even once every three months might (odd as it seems) still consider themselves to be (or be perceived to be) vegetarians. It would be a safe place to come and explore the ideas of trying out raw eggs, milk and fish - and perhaps a place of more gentle consideration for the first most difficult steps and changes of perception.
I can understand fully Eve's desire to keep the forum's purpose pure. I guess it depends on if the moderators want to pull in more members and make the forum more active or not.... and if a good moderator (with the time) could be found.
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Wal - is it ok if I shorten your name like that? - I thought of an idea for you with your super-sensitivity. I know that you feel like eating all the cooked foods gives you a broad nutrition base, but I wonder how you would feel if you cut out all those foods that you are so sensitive to even if they are cooked. How about for an experiment, eating only what you can eat raw and see how that goes? Doing it for a short time isn't going to cause any major long-term nutrient deficiencies and if you feel much better that way then you would have some new information to take into account. Cooking itself, as Tyler here so many times has pointed out, creates its own sets of toxins that you might also be sensitive to, and it might be the best approach for someone so sensitive to avoid as best as possible all such toxins - at least until maybe you can handle some later.... perhaps.
Just a thought.
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I've got a suggestion. Frying is for idiots. I think you know that it's the worst possible way to cook, and you're deliberately choosing it to get attention. Surely you're not ignorant or stupid enough to do it otherwise, hmm? by cherimoya
And this is the reason I stopped coming here the last few days. I just now thought about reading up on things of interest and I stumbled upon your reply.
First of all, I did not know that frying stable saturated fats is bad. I was told on the Primal Blueprint forums that frying animal fats is the safest way of heating up fats.
I don't fry at high temperatures...my stove is set to a very low temperature (on #3 out of 12). The butter, coconut oil and animal fat barely melts, and i heat up my food. I love kidney fat all by itself and I refuse to eat it cold, out of the fridge, be my guest and do so.
As far as attention, No I don't want attention, but clearly youre doing something wrong in your diet for being so hateful toward others? What is lacking in you that you need to put others down? I have had NO clue that heating up fats in a pan on top of hte stove is BAD, how the hell else would I warm up my meals, hm?
I guess, there is no true home for me here afterall, I don't care, really. I will continue to warm up my meals and bone marrow and fats and whatnot in a frying pan on top of the stove, if people like it or not. Neanderthals surely used fire to heat up meals (not fry to death and kill proteins). So far, I've had tremendous health benefits switching from SAD to paleo/primal and I'm truly thankful for all the information that's available on different sites and forums, from guys and girls like here (except cherimoya).
Good Luck to you all,
Waldpfad
Btw, cherimoya, I posted this thread under Culinary Creations first, in hopes it would give people an idea of yet another breakfast, totally forgetting though that I'm on a raw forum. I was posting it to HELP, not get attention, oh hateful one.
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Cherimoya is merely making a point, that frying is generally one of the most harmful types of cooking. The safest type of cooking involves boiling. Cooking in moisture is the best way to reduce the formation of heat-created toxins, in particular advanced glycation end products and polyclic aromatic hydrocarbons.
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And this is the reason I stopped coming here the last few days. I just now thought about reading up on things of interest and I stumbled upon your reply.
First of all, I did not know that frying stable saturated fats is bad. I was told on the Primal Blueprint forums that frying animal fats is the safest way of heating up fats.
I hope you continue here, or wherever is best. I had a wake-up call too; because my path comes from long time vegan, and I didn't expect I was supposed to give up all of my vegan being or voice to be here. But I like this forum. I think it's one of the best on the net. I've participated in Mark's Daily Apple and I like it and I'm still a member, but I like this one better. I, like you, didn't know the differences between frying, boiling etc before being in this forum. I learned though, and am grateful. I thought they were all unhealthy for me, and did none. Since, I have tried making bone broths. Turns out they're not so bad as broiling. Still, not my thing. There were some members here, some stayed, who low temp heated fats to eat.
Take care,
RawZi
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Hey Wal - Here's a really big piece of information and if you understand it correctly - you probably will want to stay.
Cherimoya banned me when I first came here because I talked too much about having been a raw vegan in the past. I didn't understand the place well and talked too much without reading first. I probably still am annoying. ;)
But recently - I'm pretty sure that he might have saved my husband's life with a suggestion for me.
I came here because I had the great good fortune of meeting PaleoPhil on another forum and learned from him for a couple of years first. And....... I met the gentle and lovely RawZi before coming here too. There are people here with the kind of experience and knowledge that you aren't going to find anywhere else..... including Cherimoya.
So - what did you think of my suggestion for you?
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I've got a suggestion. Frying is for idiots. I think you know that it's the worst possible way to cook, and you're deliberately choosing it to get attention. Surely you're not ignorant or stupid enough to do it otherwise, hmm? by cherimoya
And this is the reason I stopped coming here the last few days. I just now thought about reading up on things of interest and I stumbled upon your reply.
First of all, I did not know that frying stable saturated fats is bad. I was told on the Primal Blueprint forums that frying animal fats is the safest way of heating up fats.
I don't fry at high temperatures...my stove is set to a very low temperature (on #3 out of 12). The butter, coconut oil and animal fat barely melts, and i heat up my food. I love kidney fat all by itself and I refuse to eat it cold, out of the fridge, be my guest and do so.
As far as attention, No I don't want attention, but clearly youre doing something wrong in your diet for being so hateful toward others? What is lacking in you that you need to put others down? I have had NO clue that heating up fats in a pan on top of hte stove is BAD, how the hell else would I warm up my meals, hm?
I guess, there is no true home for me here afterall, I don't care, really. I will continue to warm up my meals and bone marrow and fats and whatnot in a frying pan on top of the stove, if people like it or not. Neanderthals surely used fire to heat up meals (not fry to death and kill proteins). So far, I've had tremendous health benefits switching from SAD to paleo/primal and I'm truly thankful for all the information that's available on different sites and forums, from guys and girls like here (except cherimoya).
Good Luck to you all,
Waldpfad
Btw, cherimoya, I posted this thread under Culinary Creations first, in hopes it would give people an idea of yet another breakfast, totally forgetting though that I'm on a raw forum. I was posting it to HELP, not get attention, oh hateful one.
Frying techniques are not welcome here. Eating cold fat does not bother me. Cold meat/fish is more difficult, but fat is easy to eat cold. If you're not open to a raw diet, you don't belong.
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I think he's trying Cherimoya - he just needs more information.
Wal - if you search out Tyler's information on the toxins that cooking creates in foods it might really help you because you are so sensitive to toxins. Maybe no one has told you what cooking does to food and how frying is the worst yet. Tyler is the go-to man here for learning about those things. He's like an encyclopedia of the research done on cooking and what different forms of cooking will do to your food.
I think that you are under a misconception that you need a wide variety of foods to thrive. You would be surprised. For instance there's this dude here named Lex (check out his journal - fascinating) that eats nothing but ground up whole beef and fat and has really improved his health.
Many people here don't eat a lot of the things that you think you have to cook - at all - and thrive.
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For instance there's this dude here named Lex (check out his journal - fascinating) that eats nothing but ground up whole beef and fat and has really improved his health.
Lex was probably older than I am now when he found raw paleo. He had also been through all those known diets correcting what he could from an incredibly sick infancy/childhood etc. Zero carb raw seems to only improve him, unlike the medical treatments all along and the diets.
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Hi,
I cook my meat and eggs because they are from the supermarket and I have no idea how they have been treated. If I was on a farm I would consider changing, but I live in the city and I don't have enough money for organic stuff, not that I would trust them either.
For me, raw is VEGETABLES, and a little fruit and nuts. Most of my diet is raw.
I object to the idea that I cannot mention my cooked food, because my discussions must be taken in context if they are to be properly understood, and maybe help someone. I'm not here to spread misunderstanding, which is the worst characteristic of the internet.
If this is some kind of cult, where you can't disrupt the status quo or you will get exiled (or burned at the stake) then I'm out too. I'm not here to troll, and if I set off some fanatic then I consider that they are the troll and should be the one kicked out.
Cheers
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It's OK to mention cooked foods in the welcome section, the weston-price diet forum(after all WP's diet included cooked foods), and the hot topics forum. Also, in the Journals section if the thread's title makes it clear it's a partially raw diet.
I guess I would be very leery of someone constantly posting about the joys of eating Big Macs and other junk food since that is at the direct opposite end of the dietary spectrum from us, and it would be a bit strange for such a person to want to be a member here. But someone with Weston-Price-style beliefs would be fine as a member, given some shared beliefs.
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I guess I do fall pretty much into the WP category, but I only eat cooked because I have to. I'm trying to slowly increase my capacity for raw veggies, but I eat raw oats when I need it. The only cooked stuff I have to eat is meat and eggs.
I really envy you guys who can get your hands on wild and grass-fed meat, and I would love to try eating some raw meat for a while to see how I would go, but its not going to happen where I live. I'm going for a trip to South America soon and should be able to try some anyway ;)
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If you're from Australia, then why not PM wodgina? He might know of easier ways to get hold of cheap, high quality raw meats. And there's always intermittent fasting to reduce the cost as well, without any impact on health.
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Rawlion said IF negatively affected his health. I think a few others did too.
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Hey Billy - I know something about eggs. Eggs from the supermarket are usually fed very badly and the natural protective bloom is washed off and often toxic substances put on to keep them fresh. Obviously not the best food - but you are eating them cooked anyway and I'm not sure that cooking them is going to really help you out as much as eating them raw - if you are going to eat them at all.
The white of the egg is going to get the most toxins absorbed through the eggshell. The eggs are not fertilized so the egg white might not even behoove you to eat anyway. Eating the yolk raw at least would not be putting in fats that have been heated and the correlating toxins from that.
I really doubt you are doing yourself any big favors cooking your egg yolks. If I were you I'd make sure I washed the eggs well with the best non-toxic soap I could get and eat only the yolks raw. I never got sick doing this before I had good eggs. I didn't do it often, but it was just fine and many folks on the internet that I have talked to about raw eggs also say that they eat store bought egg yolks raw and never got sick.
Generally, I believe that if you increase your exposure slowly to pathogens you teach your immune system to be able to handle them effectively and if you eat a diet with a higher percentage of raw fats and foods then your body/immune system will likely be generally stronger and better equipped to fight of an invasion. People get sick from cooked eggs too - more often than us raw animal fooders! People that eat a regular diet and a "bad" cooked egg are likely to get more sick I would think than I would if I went out and ate a raw egg with a hundred times more pathogens because my body has been trained. Immune systems learn.
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Tyler, I live on a boat without a fridge lol. That I manage to live this way only 5 minutes walk from the city is thanks to the Brisbane river. A fridge would definitely be a good investment, but I'm doing the student thing right now and don't have any spare cash lying around.
Dorothy, I would eat them raw if I saw them fall out of a chicken but it just doesn't feel right to eat these ones raw. I agree that humans learn to `tolerate' toxins and diseases but I believe its this which is the main cause for cancer later on in life. I know that cooking also creates toxins but I don't think that they are quite as bad. I will be doing some study on what exactly goes on with commercial eggs and may change my mind, but for example I understand that salmonella poisoning occurs most often in raw eggs. I will definitely be looking into this.
Cheers
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Hi Billy. So you live on a boat on a budget without a refrigerator. That changes things in my mind. I wouldn't eat those eggs you are talking about at all ...... ESPECIALLY cooked.
Think about it Billy. You are buying eggs from chickens that are not fed right and which are probably housed in horrific circumstances and under extreme stress and deprivation. These ARE the animals that will get salmonella. Free range eggs don't. But........ then on top of that those eggs are cleaned of their protective bloom and sprayed with some unknown substance (often oils leftover from big industries - like petroleum) that are considered to be "safe" if refrigerated and with the amount of absorption that can happen through osmosis of the egg. Then you are taking it home and leaving it out (where it is not "designed" to be"). Then you are still eating that protective egg white which is not fertilized and which is the next level in from that toxic stuff on the outside that is now in an environment that was never planned for.
Here is the ONLY way I would ever dream of eating those eggs if I was in a real pinch. I would take those eggs home and immediately wash them in the safest soap I could find - thoroughly. Then I would put them into olive oil with a little coconut oil as a natural protective substitute for the bloom instead of whatever crap sprayed on them. Olive oil has been used forever and the coconut is my thought because it is so good at killing most microbes. I would put them in the coldest and darkest place on the boat - maybe even on ice if you could get some with a cooler. Then I would eat only the yolk and not the white - and I would eat as many of them as fast as I could.
If you break open those eggs before getting off whatever is on the shell you take a big chance - even more so if you cook them - because then your body is weaker and you get the toxins from cooking and deprive yourself of much of the nutrition. That's my opinion. Who knows what those whites have absorbed? The whites are backup for the chicks and a bumper cushion. If you want to get the nutrition that is reserved for the growing chick - then eat the yolk. I'm not saying that healthy fertilized whites aren't good - I have no idea. But for me personally - I DO see the eggs come out of my very healthy free-ranging chickens, keep the bloom on and don't refrigerate them and I STILL don't think those whites are good for me........ and my dogs won't eat them.
I found out most of what I know about eggs from the research I did into getting chickens. I read many books on eggs and have talked my head off about chickens with chicken people.
Also - if you open up your eggs and the yolks do not stand up nicely or there are no stringy things attached to the yolk - the very well might be old. Don't be fooled by a nice deep yellow color - big businesses put chemicals into the feed to make it look that way. In the wild that would mean a good thing - that the chickens are getting beta carotene from greens - but from store bought eggs it means little.
There are other things you can do to make sure that they are fresh - but this message is getting so long that I'm becoming sure that Iguana is going to nail me!
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Hi Dorothy,
A very interesting and informative reply.
I DO get free range eggs, but that doesn't mean I think they're healthy. Industries and supermarkets have to preserve their food somehow and the food regulations are such that you can put a label on something like `Organic' without having to report an array of chemicals and substances that are used in the process, which have been deemed so `safe' that there's no need to mention them. Sorry for my lack of clarity, by `commercial' I meant `not from my own farm'.
As for organic meat, its out of the question for me because of cost, and I have no way of storing it properly either.
You sure sound like you know your eggs :)
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Hi Billy, I've learned that grass-fed is the word to watch for even more than organic. People have talked about that a bunch here. And......... they talk a lot about high meats. Tyler made a section for newbies on it you can read - that way you don't need refrigeration.
Free-range often can mean that only a few of the birds can get their feet onto cement without a roof or it can mean that they are treated real well. I found an independent study once of different farms in my area. It was outrageous the difference that can be under one label. You can probably do some research on your brand of eggs on-line to find out what they spray on the eggs and how they are raised.
I knew NOTHING about eggs and chickens but thought that I wanted some so had to study maybe more than others because of my complete and utter ignorance previously. I used the worldcat system at the library and got dozens of books from around the country on chickens and gobbled them in an intensive study. I still feel like I know so little. Ducks are my next project!