Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Hot Topics => Topic started by: PaleoPhil on March 05, 2012, 01:17:34 am
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Paul Jaminet is warning his readers to cook some of their foods thoroughly, including even bone marrow (http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?p=5650 (http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?p=5650)), or risk suffering serious health consequences, so I thought our experience here might be an interesting source of information on this for him as well as us. Please report the worst health symptoms/issues you've experienced during raw or mostly-raw Paleo/Primal/Instincto due to the rawness or undercooking.
My worst symptoms so far that might be linked to rawness or undercooking was a single incident of nausea and malaise that started during the night and which passed by mid-day. I was eating all raw as usual at that time and the only thing different I did was eat my first raw beef liver. However, I can't be certain that the liver was the actual cause, it was a very minor incident and I've eaten raw liver many times since without any problems.
Paul Jaminet wrote:
"Hepatitis E virus is not destroyed by casual cooking, smoking, or curing. It appears that meat must reach temperatures of 70ºC (160ºF) before viruses are inactivated; and it is possible that meat must remain at that temperature for some time, perhaps as long as an hour. Rare or medium cooked pork could contain active viruses.
Hepatitis E viruses are most abundant in liver, intestine, and blood. Pork products containing these parts, such as sausage, may be best avoided.
Meat from parts of the pig with low viral titers, such as pork ribs or pork bellies, are likely to be safe to eat as long as they are well cooked. Be sure to wash the meat of all blood before cooking, and to cook thoroughly. ….
In general bone marrow is less exposed to pathogens than blood. I would rinse the bones thoroughly before cooking and then cook them thoroughly, making sure the internal temperature in the marrow is high. The pot should be covered so that any parts of the bone not submerged in water are exposed to steam." ("The Trouble With Pork, Part 3: Pathogens," http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?p=5650 (http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?p=5650))
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I ate raw chicken once, and got a mild case of salmonella. The chicken was locally raised and "organic", but I don't know how cleanly it was butchered. I got the salmonella under control after a day or so by taking small amounts of raw apple cider vinegar mixed in water, and was more or less eating normally 4 days after the onset of symptoms.
I have no other ailments to report, and in fact haven't really been sick aside from this one incident since starting this diet.
Edit: For reference, I started including raw animal foods in my diet back in 2003, and they started making up a substantial part of my diet in 2009.
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*Topic moved to the Hot Topics forum.*
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I actually expect this thread will make raw Paleo look rather good due to lack of much in the way of seriously negative reports despite many people doing years of raw animal food eating, which was my purpose, but I can understand moving it to Hot Topics.
I neglected to ask people to include when they first started consuming raw meat/fish/eggs and/or how many years they've been doing it. Please include that, thanks.
I consumed a small amount of raw eggs in my youth over 30 years ago and I've been consuming raw eggs and technically raw beef (low-heated jerky or totally raw) fairly frequently since the Spring of 2009 (nearly 3 years) and been high-raw Paleo since July 26, 2009 (about 2.7 years).
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only been sick once, in three or four years, from improperly handled meat...which wasnt the best of quality anyway...wound up having super gas and farts for a week. other then that when i am being healthy in all aspects of my life and enjoying raw meat it is easy to digest and gives me great energy :)
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I've been eating raw everything for almost twenty years, and never really had any problems with anything. One time a dozen raw oysters did not go through too well, but that's it. I usually let my nose tell me if it's good or not. Remember Jaminet was on antibiotics for about a year for something undefined. His system might be impaired from all that abuse. And he does mention that he is enjoying lots of fermented vegetables now,, probably instinctually.
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That's nicely lengthy experience, thanks Van. I'm hoping we'll get Iguana's input too, as I know he's been doing Instincto a long time.
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The only time ive been sick eating raw so far in four years was when we forraged some freshwater clams out of a river in newfoundland and ate them for dinner. We both woke up in the early morning and threw them up and felt kinda hung-over for a day. We ate a raw fresh lobster each for lunch so the saltwater in it helped 'clean us out' haha.
That was about a year ago but i still dont want to think about eating clams... haha
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Van, I had no idea that you were a seasoned veteran of RVAF diets with way more dietary experience than me. Up till now, I had thought that only Iguana and a very, very few others had exceeded my own length of time on this sort of diet, here on rawpaleoforum. Just how did you find out about RVAF diets? I mean, even AV's 1st book only came about in c.1997!
My own experience re PP's questions was this:- when I was 4 years old I would often steal bits of raw kidney from the kitchen when my mother wasn't looking. I loved the taste. My father had this thing about France and insisted that all dairy bought in France must be either raw or only semi-pasteurised and preferred some shellfish live and raw because it was French custom, so that I got some raw dairy as well as some raw shellfish, here and there.
I only had one issue with raw shellfish after going rawpalaeo, where I once vomited after eating some very aged, raw cod roe, but it was not food-poisoning really as I got rid of it very soon after consuming it. I also once got tapeworms after eating some raw horsemeat. That resulted in 2 days of painful urinating, but went away sudddenly; and, after that, no pains/side-effects happened.
I did have serious issues with raw dairy, raw veggie-juice and raw coconut oil but those were not rawpalaeo foods. I find raw, solid coconut to be fine and sam with raw vegetables(well the ones low in antinutrients).
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I ate bad raw chicken liver, puked it all out in 30 minutes.
The chicken I bought was alive and we slaughtered it and ate it.
I didn't raise that chicken.
It must have been a not so healthy chicken.
Raw paleo diet has been the best for me for over 4 years now.
My 10 year old boy on raw paleo recently went camping and was given cooked pork, cooked fish, cooked shrimp, cooked squid. And in 24 hours he had constipation.
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I had terrible stomach cramps and diarrhea for a month after eating some Gulf Coast oysters once. Generally, it's not safe to eat Gulf oysters raw, the handling practices there are very lax.
Other than that, nothing.
I've been eating raw fish/meat/shellfish pretty much daily for 7 years now. I was raw mostly-vegan for about 4 years before that, with a short stint of eating bread daily for a few months in 2005, and eating some other cooked things regularly for a couple of months in 2004.
Other than those two short periods, I've been probably 99% raw for 12 years now, with periods of up to 18 months without any cooked food of any kind, even spices/dressings.
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Been sick twice during rpd, one time from a piece of lamb meat (supermarket and reduced price) tasted like rockford cheese (I never ate lam before didn't know how it tasted like :-) ) was a day or so and one time from very well cooked meat been very sick of it 1 or 2 weeks that one was the worst food-poisoning I ever had.
Problems I have with rpd: I ate mostly fat muscle meat and that is not right (I don't like the taste of liver) added oranges and cooked-potatoes and lots of home made broth. Fixed hair loss and improved sleeping. Everything functions pretty well now.
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worst experience to date/right now: chicken bone stuck in throat!!!!!!!!! ouch holy !!!
anyone have experience with this, whatdoido?
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I swallow banana chunks when that happens with fish bones.
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I have been eating raw salmon/bison/beef/liver/bone marrow for a couple months and have been doing fine. I feel happily surprised.
BTW, I use "Samson Ultrasonic Multi-Purpose Fruit and Vegetable Washer GBW-300" to sterilize my raw animal food for 5 minutes unless the food has been frozen for a while. Anyone has health reasons to object to this practice? Blood does drain away from the surface of the meat while it is sterilized in the water. But after I leave the meat in the fridge for a while the meat becomes red again so not all blood is drained.
Samson washer uses ozone and ultrasonic (in the water) to clean food.
http://www.therawdiet.com/ultra.html (http://www.therawdiet.com/ultra.html)
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My worry is not gaining any fat to my body and being too cold and serious of a Personality. I'm not sure how to achieve "vibrant" health on rpd. My concern is that people I want to be like eat SAD.
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I hear that adding turmeric to the raw meat prevents alot of those poisoning symptoms.
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I have been eating raw salmon/bison/beef/liver/bone marrow for a couple months and have been doing fine. I feel happily surprised.
BTW, I use "Samson Ultrasonic Multi-Purpose Fruit and Vegetable Washer GBW-300" to sterilize my raw animal food for 5 minutes unless the food has been frozen for a while. Anyone has health reasons to object to this practice? Blood does drain away from the surface of the meat while it is sterilized in the water. But after I leave the meat in the fridge for a while the meat becomes red again so not all blood is drained.
Samson washer uses ozone and ultrasonic (in the water) to clean food.
http://www.therawdiet.com/ultra.html (http://www.therawdiet.com/ultra.html)
weird, if the food is that suspect i probably wouldnt eat it in the first place
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worst experience to date/right now: chicken bone stuck in throat!!!!!!!!! ouch holy !!!
anyone have experience with this, whatdoido?
If the bone is raw your saliva will dissolve it. How did you got it out?
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hah well my gag reflex went into full effect and as i was bending over to yak into the toilet somehow it wiggled its way out.....i think, there is still a feeling of something in the throat but much less and i think it may just be where the bone stabbed my esophagus! like gs said, you can swallow chunks of bananas, just dont choke yourself, or i would have tried large leaves of lettuce or something because i am allergic to bananas...pretty much anything that you can swallow to brush up against the object and dislodge it :)