Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Hot Topics => Topic started by: CitrusHigh on April 05, 2012, 07:08:21 pm
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**I'd like to preface this thread by saying that dogmatic darwinian evolutionists such as Ty and Cherimoya are not welcome here beyond their moderation duties. I'm painfully aware of your positions on this kind of stuff, so just move on! Not saying that to be rude, I'm grateful for this board and your efforts, but you have nothing to contribute here. I'm not promoting Wilcock's work, all I want is to discuss it with other open minded people who think there's more going on than conventional science will admit simply because it can't wrap it's collective mind around the data.**
Has anyone else read this? I'm listening to it on audiobook right now while working. Pretty neat!
I'm super skeptical of everything I read, but I'm so incredibly displeased with mainstream science and the manner in which these brains continue to take their data and then force it in to whatever the consensus of the day is. So it's refreshing to have someone submit new theories by looking at the big picture, and the data from science that has been left outside the clique of 'mainstream' science.
I learned about David Wilcock after I asked a very innocuous question about a claim Aajonus made about flies manifesting on rock where there had been no flies. And while I'm still totally skeptical about the reliability of his claims or whether or not he tends to reach a bit in pursuit of new ideas, he has really given me a lot thought food to digest in his book.
As a tracker, I always feel like you should be able to track the whole world, or the universe even. You should be able to look at the big picture, and if your data are true, and you aren't injecting too much personal bias (or preconceptions/dogma) then you should find patterns and congruence that work in harmony.
That is what has made this book a joy to listen to. Wilcock is trying to take the big picture and draw everything together.
He talks about weston Price's work. How raw foods support the body with light energy and information. How DNA is a storage and communication system for light energy as well as whatever this source field is, which I think he is claiming is gravity (and also the divine creator(s) if I'm grasping his words properly. He talks about the pineal gland and it's possible metaphysical powers/perception, about the mineralization thereof and how to demineralize it, especially of fluoride. He talks about fermented cod liver oil and ratfish oil.
The problem is that I really don't trust Wilcock at all to be honest, so to really buy into anything in this book I'd have to research each of the studies he has brought up and read their critiques by other skeptics for balance.
Remember that mainstream science/medicine calls things like RVAF/Primal/RPD 'crazy', 'dangerous' or even 'deadly' practice, something that most of us here credit with our very health and well being.
One of the aspects of this book that I liked the most (though I haven't yet finished reading it) is that Wilcock explores a different idea of how life on earth developed. Darwinian evolution just doesn't work for me. It has some evidence going for it, such as the age of the earth and the fossil layers, but then it breaks down when we don't find any real transition specimens (though I am aware of the controversy of that statement). And thought I don't believe the bible at all in terms of a literal creation narrative, I suspect that we are created, designed or at least our development was guided and not the random mutation of the DToE. This would explain why the earth seems to be billions of years old, but new species just pop up in the fossil record, instead of transitioning.
Anyway, interested to hear others' thoughts on this book and its' claims, so please chime in (with something constructive!).
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I've not read it, but I actually learned about Ormus through Wilcock's Ascension 2000 website and yahoo group. I was fairly impressed with him, he was into a raw animal foods diet right around the time I was saying goodbye to veganism forever. He's extremely intelligent.
I have no problem with the idea that human evolution has been guided. I doubt it has been done in any large-scale, easily-seen way. Humans nearly went extinct about 75,000 years ago. If anyone was guiding evolution in a big way, I think they would not have allowed that particular genetic bottleneck to happen.
Many Central American Indians claim to have interbred with aliens, but I don't know how much credence to give their claims.
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Wow, can't believe that you of all people responded with a modicum of positivity to this post. That's awesome. Ormus, sounds pretty intense to me. Knowing what we know about raw meat and how to live free of disease, why aren't we talking more about this so called 'alt science' that this book is centered on, here on the boards? This is pretty incredible stuff.
If I can change myself in to a tiger or something by manipulating my DNA with light/electricity, I want to do it, let's go!
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Who published the audio book that you are listening to please LCO? Is the actor reading it good? I've never heard of Wilcox so can't converse with you until I understand more. I'm also not at all familiar with Ormus. I would like to listen to the book so that we can have an intelligent conversation on the topic. I can think of it sort of like a paleo book club on-line. :D
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Suuweet! Actually it's the author, Wilcock, reading it. I found the reading on demonoid.ph as a torrent, but you might be able to find it with a google search of the title and 'torrent' next to it. OR I might be able to dropbox it, though I've never used it before so would have to learn how first. That would be cool to discuss!
I think he does a good job of reading it, but I could see how some people might not enjoy it. I like how earnest and enthusiastic he is about the topic, which comes across in the reading. Not sure if I trust him at all yet, but , no reason to toss the baby out too, there's definitely a ton a good info in that book.
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I found it! I will ask hubbie to help me with the download the audio as I haven't done that before - first time for everything! :D
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Awesome, let me know if it doesn't work and we'll get it figured out! Cheers!
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Awesome, let me know if it doesn't work and we'll get it figured out! Cheers!
Here's the link if anyone else is interested:
http://www.demonoid.ph/files/details/2834753/3212847/ (http://www.demonoid.ph/files/details/2834753/3212847/)
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How about self guided evolution - apparently species diversity really took off once sight became common as organisms could see who they were mating with : )
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oopsy - I went to download at that above link and it's very wrong. Must have been an ad I got by accident.
Hopefully will be able to find the right one and post.
Sowee.
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Look around on that page Dorothy, until you find the link that reads : 'Download the torrent'
I know it's kind of confusing with the other ad links that say download too, but hey, it's free!
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**I'd like to preface this thread by saying that dogmatic darwinian evolutionists such as Ty and Cherimoya ...
Wow, that's quite an attack to start a thread off with before anyone has even commented. Why is it dogmatic to take evidence seriously like these guys did on evolution? And why would it be surprising to find a few hearty souls willing to take evolution seriously in this raw Paleo forum when Paleolithic nutrition was founded by two guys that saw evolution as the foundation of it (Walter L. Voegtlin, MD and Boyd Eaton, MD)? That would be like complaining about too much dogmatic religion at the Vatican--it's expected. One should not be surprised to find it. Imagine how much worse it is elsewhere on the Internet, such as at Creationist forums. Is there nowhere on this earth for people who take evolution seriously?
Frankly, it's disturbing how much vitriol against biological evolution there is at this forum supposedly dedicated to a way of living underpinned by it.
Need I remind you of what the forum's Mission Statement says?
"The information presented here focuses on the foods that humans evolved eating in their natural state." http://www.rawpaleodiet.com/ (http://www.rawpaleodiet.com/)
Ty and Cherimoya are not welcome here beyond their moderation duties. I'm painfully aware of your positions on this kind of stuff, so just move on!
You attack them, tell them they're not welcome, and then tell them to move on without allowing them to defend themselves? Weak. Have the courage of your convictions and allow them to defend themselves or move on yourself.
I've written friendly, welcoming posts regarding Creationists both at this forum and at the Paleofood forum, defending their right to participate in Paleo diet forums and calling for a big tent approach, and I'm skeptical of much in mainstream science too, but this is beyond the pale. Can't we agree to disagree without being uncivil?
This talks about the paper that got the whole Paleo diet movement going (hint: it wasn't written by Creationists):
Just over 25 years ago, an unusual article, “Paleolithic Nutrition: A Consideration of Its Nature and Current Implications,” was published in a respected journal.1 In it, we described a new paradigm for prevention based on very old human experience: nutrition during the course of human evolution. Drawing on modern studies of hunter-gatherers (HGs) and also on archeological and paleontological evidence, we argued for the discordance hypothesis, which in its simplest form states that our genome evolved to adapt to conditions that no longer exist (the environment of evolutionary adaptedness, or EEA), that the change has occurred too rapidly for adequate genetic adaptation, and that the resulting mismatch helps to cause some common chronic diseases.
Paleolithic Nutrition Twenty-Five Years Later
Melvin Konner, MD, PhD
S. Boyd Eaton, MD2
How easily we forget.
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hee hee - he forgot to add you to the list Phil!
I think LCO had some conversations that couldn't get much of anywhere with Tyler and Cheri. At least I think I remember that so I imagine that the intense introduction was in response to that.
But if he adds one of my fav person in the world to the list too.... well, if my friend Phil can't come......
I read what he wrote as a plea not to be totally dismissed and berated - I didn't read it to mean that he didn't want to have civil back and forth debate with others willing to entertain his thoughts and not just dismiss them outright.
I'm curious though. As of yet I have never doubted for a moment that evolution was a rock solid fact - but then again - I also thought that eating raw meat would kill me. ;) I at least want to scan the book before I disagree. lol.
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I read what he wrote as a plea not to be totally dismissed and berated - I didn't read it to mean that he didn't want to have civil back and forth debate with others willing to entertain his thoughts and not just dismiss them outright.
If he had truly done that, I would have no problem at all, and I would have supported him. Instead, he started by insulting them, and then the targets of the attack are commanded to remain silent and take their whipping. That is the definition of temerity.
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OK. Insulting people and peoples with impunity seems sometimes to be so common place here that I just wrote it off. I guess it's never good to fall into the trap of complacency around it.
I am still kinda curious though.
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I mean, youll be ok though, right Phil? Quit whining. I didnt insult them and when they behave like trolls thats the response they get. I wouldnt have said anything if they hadnt previously trolled my posts with nothing constructive to add.
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Telling them to keep out I guess was insulting? Is that what you meant Phil?
I'd prefer to start talking though instead of escalating into actual insulting using the "T" word and all.
If Cheri and Tyler contribute I didn't get the sense you wouldn't be ok with that LCO - cuz Cheri was the first and it seems just fine right?
So Phil - do you think that the paleo diet is inextricably linked to evolution? Is evolution the only possible premise?
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So I scanned the first 74 pages and most of it is real old hat "new age" stuff. I don't have to read about hypnotism, I read the Secret Lives of Plants already etc. etc. None of that stuff excludes evolution.
I will read the dna and light stuff more thoroughly though at a later date. Never heard of that even though I've experienced it in my own ways.
But when I got to the evolution section I read a sentence that stopped me.
“The [evolutionary] origin of birds is
largely a matter of deduction. There is no fossil evidence of the stages through which the remarkable change from reptile to bird was achieved.”
but, but, but......... I have a distinct memory of being in the Museum of Natural History in Manhattan a long time ago and seeing with my OWN TWO EYES a fossil of a dinosaur with wings - the first "bird". It thrilled and intrigued me and I stared at it a very long time.
That in itself has to make me doubt what else this guy and his sources. I mean it's kind of a fun compendium and I have myself experienced many of the spiritual realities that he alludes to -- but to say there there are no records when I know (and we're talking about a little nobody that knows not much about such things) that there most definitely IS a fossil record!.... I think I'll skip the section on evolution.
But some of the other ideas I think are definitely worth discussing if you like and it's ok with the moderators.
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I went back to the link I posted and this time it worked ........... but
SHIT! Looks like that download might have played some havoc on my computer.
Don't download that book anyone until hubbie can see if my computer is ok from it.
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OK - looks like it just changes your home page. Not too bad. That's a relief. Ms. computer dunce got all scared.
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Dorothy, I'm sorry you're having such trouble with that page, but, I've been using demonoid for years now and never had any problem at all with adware, spyware, modifications to browser settings or anything goofy like that. But then again, I've never clicked on any of the ads because I know that on download sites the ads are posted as 'download' links, you just have to learn how to recognize legit download links from the ads, usually there's some way to discriminate between them.
Anyway, there's nothing wrong with demonoid, just takes a little getting used to, this site has provided me with thousands of dollars worth of education (and a bit o music here and there), in fact, because there was something I wanted superbad while their registration was closed, I actually bought the account I have now illegally off of ebay. They sell them on there for a couple bucks, think I payed 6 or $7.
Some of their torrents can be found elsewhere, but other, old ones you need an account for.
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And yeah Dorothy, of course I want everyone involved who wants to participate constructively, but just what is the point of coming in to a thread that you don't believe in a saying, "that's bullshit!" and then leaving??? Trolling, that's called trolling, doesn't matter whether is mods or not, as above so below and it's just not productive. But alas I knew better anyway, I LOA'd just what I wasn't after, which was wasted energy on something other than the thread's topic.
Anyhoo, I've got to research some of these russian scientists he mentions and see if there's anything to it. Then I'll post back what I find.
Did you download the text or audio version of the book Dorothy?
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Quit whining. I didnt insult them...
Stating facts and asking questions is not whining. Didn't you write the insulting words about "dogmatic darwinian evolutionists" and the rest? Someone wrote those words and then told them to "hush up and not respond." If it wasn't you, then who? If it was you, then how is it open minded to tell someone to hush up?
Did it teach you nothing when your assumption about Cherimoya's opposition to David Wilcock turned out to be utterly false? Instead of apologizing, why did you respond with this backhanded compliment:Wow, can't believe that you of all people responded with a modicum of positivity to this post.
You (or someone pretending to be you) laid out your trollish bait in a public forum and then when someone responded by daring to question it, you had the audacity to whine about trolling? If you can't take the heat in the kitchen you created, then perhaps you should follow your own advice?
I would actually be quite thrilled if you would do something constructive like refute something TD has written with salient facts instead of just whining about him and telling him to not respond, but he hasn't even posted in this thread yet, and Cherimoya has already proven you wrong. So the score in your trollish game so far is Cherimoya and TD +1, Let'sCopOut 0.
Frequently attacking part of the mission statement of this forum, promoting New Age woo and and Weston Price stuff and insisting that people only respond with "something constructive" (in other words, agree with your dogma), and criticizing anyone who disagrees as not being open minded or trollish, would be like me going to a vegan forum and then complaining about all the positive talk about fruits and vegetables and calling them close minded trolls if they dared disagree. Some of the evidence-poor, magic-rich stuff you've been promoting comes as close as anything I can recall since William was banned from here to what TD terms "the Noble Savage theory."
Does this video and description excerpt give some inkling of the book's subject matter?
David Wilcock: The Source Field Investigations -- Full Video! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR-klTa1y54#ws) "Did human extraterrestrials visit Earth -- and predict a Golden Age will culminate in the year 2012, freeing us from evil, fear and doom?"
What is your answer to that question and do you believe that prediction will come true? I started watching this video and found Dorothy's description of "real old hat 'new age' stuff" to be apt for it, along with rehashed conspiracy theory stuff. So far I don't find anything that inspires my interest and instead found it to be an utter waste of time. I'm not about to view an entire nearly two hour video or read a book without some reason for doing so.
What is your take on this:
David Wilcock channeling Ra - 1 of 4
David Wilcock channeling Ra - 1 of 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gq9cICUKdM#)
...there's definitely a ton a good info in that book.
So can you share a couple examples of what new, useful information you learned that might give me a reason to spend more time on it?
Telling them to keep out I guess was insulting? Is that what you meant Phil?
That plus calling them dogmatic and other stuff. Doesn't it come across as passive aggressive?
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So can you share a couple examples of what new, useful information you learned that might give me a reason to spend more time on it?
That seems like a very productive thing to do. I would very much like to hear specific things LCO learned from the book. I remember the first times that I got any hints that anyone else on the planet might have sensed some of the things I was sensing it was quite exciting. I remember telling everyone about the simplest oldest things like they were brand new and they just smiled and nodded at me. If it's the first time LCO ever heard of say hypnosis, nlp (what Tony Robbins stole from), the secret life of plants etc. etc. it might be quite exciting to him. I'm not going to assume that LCO agrees with it all or that he wouldn't laugh outright at the channeling Ra thing like I did. Sometimes things get all piled together that don't really belong together - like raw and lowfatvegan seems to for instance. I'm certainly not going to read the whole book but there's a section or two which might give some value or leads to other things of value - so if LCO would like to talk about parts he finds valuable - I would certainly like that.
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LCO - I downloaded the text so that I could scan it fast. Most of it is way too familiar and not well presented enough to want to read (the original sources he took all this stuff are better I'd like to add) - but that doesn't mean that I am familiar with everything. The predictions about 2012 I'm just going to skip along with the pyramids and all that jazz and the evolution part (because of that silly statement that there are no fossil records). But reading this guy is like reading someone who has gone out shopping around for a bit of this and a bit of that to thow it all together in a heap. Some things in that heap are valuable and some are useless and pretty silly imho. What did you you find to be the most interesting/useful LCO?
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That plus calling them dogmatic and other stuff. Doesn't it come across as passive aggressive?
I often can't believe the insults and truly horrific things I've heard people call each other and whole races of people and the opposite sex here at the forum Phil. Passive aggressive is a little refreshing even. ;) I've learned how to just by-pass all that stuff as best I can and try to get to the "meat" - or I would have been long gone almost as soon as I got here. I quickly felt insulted in several ways that usually I would not tolerate and saw so very many people being insulted that usually would have made me leave, but the information was more important than the aggression so I learned how to ignore it.
I know that you are passionate about raw paleo and are one of the best historians on the forum in regard to it and are a human librarian of pertinent information in regard to it and I think you love it, so I appreciate your chivalry when it comes to the subject.
I just want to find out if there is any meat to be had from this discussion. I'm extremely versed in this subject/area so it's intriguing. LCO's manners might not have been the best - but how many people here have perfected manners? ;D
I'd like to say to you once again that I think you are amazing. You have exemplary intelligence and integrity. If it weren't for you I would never have arrived but also never would have stayed. I learned before I got here that raw paleo could be kind and generous and gentle if so chosen to be. I can ignore any nastiness and not associate it with paleo because you got to me first.
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I often can't believe the insults and truly horrific things I've heard people call each other and whole races of people and the opposite sex here at the forum Phil. Passive aggressive is a little refreshing even. ;)
Heh, I guess you've got a point there, and maybe there was at least partly just a bad choice of words.
I've learned how to just by-pass all that stuff as best I can and try to get to the "meat" - or I would have been long gone almost as soon as I got here. I quickly felt insulted in several ways that usually I would not tolerate and saw so very many people being insulted that usually would have made me leave, but the information was more important than the aggression so I learned how to ignore it.
Yeah, that's the main reason I put up with TD's insults and some bloggers' crude and insulting style elsewhere. I could do without it and see it as mainly a waste of everyone's time, but if I get some useful info, I'll put up with it and just try to skim over most of the crud. This instance seemed particularly galling given the forum's mission, and it seems like a response from someone like me who has been the frequent target of TD's ire would be particularly relevant and credible. Also, the first post was a surprise to me given the forum title, which sounded constructive. If the thread title had hinted that there was going to be a rant, I probably would have skipped over the thread.
I'd like to say to you once again that I think you are amazing. You have exemplary intelligence and integrity. If it weren't for you I would never have arrived but also never would have stayed. I learned before I got here that raw paleo could be kind and generous and gentle if so chosen to be. I can ignore any nastiness and not associate it with paleo because you got to me first.
Thanks, Dorothy, you're too kind. Raw Paleo has seemed to be calming for me, but nothing is a cure-all, of course.
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Phil I saw the 1st video you mentioned and I didn't like it one bit.
LCO if I didn't know you I wouldnt have watched more than 5 mins. The whole thing was bad and it is probably a deterrent to reading the book, so I'm suggesting not watching that video to anybody interested in the post.
However, I do know you, so inspite of all that when I had trouble diwnloading the torrent, I just bought the audiobook off iTunes.
I'm glad I did. I'm only on the first section. He is long winded. I don't like the author at all, but I'm still excited about trying out many of the practices. I'll site 2 things I liked most so far, because it is already so late. I'll post a couple more tomorrow night.
1. I liked the plants and living tissue "listening and responding". I have herd this stuff before, but it was more mind expansive for me this time. I started talking "in my head" to everything around me and feeling for a response. This could be all imaginary I DON'T CARE. I enjoye it. I talk to my plants and animals and food, mostly. I tell the food nice things and that I don't want it to suffer. That is will be part of me and so in a way it already is. That I care about it as I do myself. I admit that I have no idea how to hear back, but that I would love to and I'm listening. God I'm a fruit cake, but it's me.
2. I like the dream info. On how to make them more lucid and on comunicating with others in there dreams. It is so late. I need to sleep and I want to review the dream stuff 1st. I'll do better for Phil and Dorothy tomorrow.
The book and author are a bit irritating, but I'm still enjoying it. I want to practice it and discuss it here. I'm super stoked about it
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I watched one second of the first video and already knew it was useless and I didn't like it - better to scan the book that I already had.
I like the same things you do Adora! I loved reading The Secret Life of Plants and who was that guy who could change the structure of water just by writing words on the bottles? We used to put all these words on our water. I talk to my animals, my plants, my world. I talk to my plants so in that sense I talk to my food, but I haven't thought about that in many other ways. I thank the animals for the food if they are animal based. Hmmmm. You bring up thoughts and ideas with this. You would probably love the Secret Lives of Plants. Vegans used to always argue with me that plants don't feel or communicate but I communicate with them all the time and can't "hear" for the lack of better word them speaking to me. I'm also TOTALLY into dream work and have been for the longest time. I started lucid dreaming back at the beginning of my path as an adult into this world when I went to meditation retreat and did nothing but meditate for 10 days straight. The first dream I had told me of some of the most important elements to come for the rest of my life and foretold of things to yet to come which did and some that I barely avoided. I felt like I changed the whole course of my life in that one dream experience.
I studied NLP just when Tony Robbins was just starting to steal it and what Abba talks about in terms of that barely scratches the surface. I met my husband in that course. It's one of the things that has made our relationship strong is that we both have the resources, perspective and communication skills in common that we gained from it. Such incredibly powerful tools to change one's reality that is.
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Phil, for my own part I feel I've got enough good reason to write what I did that I'm satisfied, how you feel about it is irrelevant. You must have something better you could be doing with your time rather than spend it here on this thread, go do that instead.
The only thing I'm promoting here in this thread, is open mindedness about alternative science because mainstream science is without. Not promoting blind acceptance of these concepts, but more a springboard to a more realistic perspective of how we got here and what the nature of consciousness is.
I can carry this thread on my own really. I'm constantly reflecting on this stuff anyway so it would just be the application of my thoughts to this thread. Then when someone who actually is interested in alternative perspectives comes along, they might find it thought provoking and/or have something that adds and not detracts savvy?
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LCO - I'm totally an old hand and deep lover of what of what you are wanting to discuss here and would enjoy discussing it, but when you say things like:
Phil, for my own part I feel I've got enough good reason to write what I did that I'm satisfied, how you feel about it is irrelevant. You must have something better you could be doing with your time rather than spend it here on this thread, go do that instead.
you show yourself to be closed minded and hostile just like Phil pointed out. Phil loves raw paleo and this entire site means something to him. To tell someone that how they feel about something is irrelevant is quite insulting and Phil is the person that introduced me to paleo and helped me tremendously in ways that I can't even begin to explain here. By saying such things you are not only putting Phil on the defensive but me too.
Everyone can do anything by themselves with books and reading - but it is interactions like this where our assumptions are questioned by intelligent people that don't agree that I have learned the most.
If you are kicking out not only Tyler and Cheri, but Phil too it makes it sound like you only want to talk with people that totally agree with you, and I might not do that, so maybe I shouldn't get started. I certainly can't assure you that I will agree with everything you say. I was willing to read the book and find out, but no guarantees.
Besides I consider Phil a very good friend and if he were kicked out of a party in the real world I would just naturally walk out with him and talk on the way to the next party. Maybe that's the way he felt about Tyler and Cheri? I don't know. I feel that way about Phil though.
This could be such a positive subject - I'm saddened that it is being approached so negatively.
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Off doing other things it occurred to me that the difficulty here is a problem with communication. With NLP I was taught that the meaning of your communication is how the other person interprets it - not what you intended. I have a feeling that LCO intended to get a different result and expected to be interpreted differently than what has occurred.
If I were to state what I think LCO meant to get across (or perhaps more accurately how I interpreted what he said) I think it would be something like: I would like this thread to be positive in nature. Please, if you want to only say that you disagree without being open to the subject matter at hand as even a possibility or to provide an idea worth evaluating together it would only detract from the discussion and make it negative without any added benefit. I ask that you keep an open mind and a spirit of exploration when considering this topic with us. Tyler and Cherimoya, in the past when I have brought up this subject you dismissed it outright. I understand you are moderators, so if it is ok with you to discuss the subject at all, perhaps it might be better if you keep your comments as congenial as possible to not shut down the flow of conversation. That's my version of how I ran it through my filters.
Afterall LCO the moderators get to choose what topics they want to allow to be discussed at all on this forum. I was asked not to discuss this subject when I first arrived. It is the right of the people running the place to decide what they want to discussed and how. It is up to them whether or not it is ok with me to discuss it with you now.
I realized that the way I should have approached this topic myself was to humbly ask Cherimoya and Tyler's permission if it's ok at all to discuss this now since I've been a member a longer while. If it's ok, then I ask if they would do what they can to allow for a free flow of ideas to occur.
And...... I understand completely if this subject is felt to be not relevant or a desired one for this particular forum.
If it's ok with the moderators for us to continue this conversation, I ask you LCO to please speak more respectfully to my friend Phil. If you don't want to or can't I understand that too. This isn't the kind of subject that I really need to learn about since I have so much experience with it.... I don't need to stick around and try to ignore someone I care about being insulted. But if you could adapt more language of inclusiveness and openness, I would really enjoy discussing the book with you.
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Well, LCO did have a point, since the thread was so anti-palaeo that inevitable criticism would appear from me and others and confuse things. I'm not bothered re the subject as long as there are only a few threads of this sort. I would probably be up in arms if someone acted like william did and tried to promote creationism or similiar anti-palaeo subject in almost every post, but once in a while is no big deal. We do need an open mind.
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Thanks TD, that's good to hear.
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I second what Adora just said.
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Adora and Dorothy, thanks for constructively answering my questions and providing a better inkling of what the book's about and for the nice remarks. Glad you found something you enjoy in the book.
LCO, in the future if you don't want truly open minded debate and discussion, then you would probably have better luck if you don't begin a thread with criticisms of other views and people. I wouldn't have commented if you hadn't done so, so you could have saved yourself some aggravation. I can tell I'm not welcome here, so I'll try to stay out of this thread.
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I can tell I'm not welcome here, so I'll try to stay out of this thread.
Uh oh - there goes a voice a reason that I sure would have loved to have take part.
Haven't gotten anything from the book as of yet Phil. I have gotten things from some of his apparent sources or sources of his sources, but not from him as of yet and haven't come to anything new yet. But one never knows. If I do I'll post it here. Even if LCO doesn't want you commenting on his posts - I sure would love your comments on mine - if you feel it's worth the time and energy of course. LCO - do you mind if Phil tears apart anything I write? I love it when he questions me - really keeps me on my toes. ;)
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omg anyway...
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http://www.nrgnair.com/MPT/zdi_tech/DNA.research.htm (http://www.nrgnair.com/MPT/zdi_tech/DNA.research.htm) something to read
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omg - that was dismissive.
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I was thinking of learning the devil's trill.
The thing I learned from all that was not to learn that piece of music.
What did you learn LCO?
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Scanned the first part and found this one section on something that I had never heard of before and seems interesting. I'd very much like to know if the studies that he refers to are real and confirmed. I'm going to copy the entire section here so that folks don't have to download the entire book in order to discuss - if they choose to discuss. Hope it's ok with copyright and all. Since the book is free on the internet and the writer is getting full credit I can't imagine there being a problem:
The DNA Phantom Effect
Now I want to jump ahead in time to 1984, because this was the year our “addiction” to DNA was heavily challenged, if not defeated, by Dr. Peter
Gariaev. Gariaev’s discovery also gave us a compelling hint that Gurwitsch’s mitogenetic radiation—the Source Field—may well be operating
through our DNA. Furthermore, Gariaev’s discovery suggests that the complete genetic codes for an organism might not actually be found in the
DNA molecule after all—at least not as their final location.
When Gariaev put a sample of DNA in a tiny quartz container, zapped it with a mild laser, and then observed it with sensitive equipment that
could detect even single photons of light, he found that the DNA acted like a light sponge. Somehow, the DNA molecule absorbed all the photons of
light in the area, and actually stored them in a corkscrew-shaped spiral.7 This is very, very strange. The DNA apparently created a vortex of some
sort that attracted the light, not unlike the idea of a black hole—but on a much, much smaller scale.
Few scientists would be willing to suggest that light could appear inside the pineal gland either—but Gariaev proved that the DNA molecule is
pulling in photons from somewhere, by some unknown process. Due to the difficulty of studying a living human brain, no comparable experiments
like this have been done within the pineal gland—at least none that are openly available to the public. The only technology we have that could hold
light in a spiral like Gariaev found in the DNA molecule is a fiber-optic cable—but even then, fiber-optic cables don’t hungrily draw in all the light
from their surroundings.
Dr. Peter Gariaev’s DNA Phantom Effect proved that the DNA molecule captures and stores light. A mysterious force holds the light in the same
place for up to 30 days after the DNA molecule itself has been removed from the area.
We’re not used to thinking of light as something that can actually be stored—it normally just zips along through space at a very nice speed. If we
could even capture it in one spot, we’d probably expect that it would just wear out—and lose its energy. Even in the case of photosynthesis, the only
way a plant appears to be able to store light is by immediately converting its energy into green-colored chlorophyll. Now we’re seeing light itself
being used like a food supply that DNA can store away . . . not unlike a squirrel hiding acorns in a hollowed-out tree for winter. This triggers a bunch
of new questions. What exactly is storing the light? How is it being stored? And why is it being stored? In order to answer those questions, we have
to delve deeper into what Gariaev actually discovered—because this is just the beginning.
The real magic happened when Dr. Gariaev ended the experiment. He grabbed the quartz container with the DNA in it and moved it out of the
way. Nothing more was supposed to happen. Nonetheless, to his utter amazement, even though everything was gone—the container, the DNA, you
name it—the light continued spiraling along in the same space, as if the DNA were still there.
Whatever was holding that light in place, it did not need the DNA molecule at all. It was something else. Something invisible. Something powerful
enough to store and control visible light within the shape of the DNA molecule itself. The only rational, scientific explanation is that there has to be
an energy field that is paired up with the DNA molecule—as if DNA has an energetic “duplicate.” This duplicate has the same shape as the
physical molecule—but once we move the DNA, the duplicate still hangs around in the same spot the molecule was in before. It doesn’t need the
DNA molecule to be there in order for it to keep on doing its job—storing visible light. Some force, perhaps akin to gravity, is holding the photons in
place.
The implications of this are mind-boggling. Obviously, in the case of a human body we have far more than one DNA molecule to consider—we
have untold trillions of them, in a very highly structured arrangement. We have bone DNA, organ DNA, blood DNA, muscle DNA, tendon DNA, skin
DNA, nervous-system DNA and brain DNA. So, just by a simple extension of Gariaev’s experiment, it is very likely that our entire body must have
an energetic duplicate. This fits in perfectly with what Driesch, Gurwitsch, Burr and Becker all theorized and observed—there is an information field
that tells our cells what to do, and where to do it. Once we add Gariaev’s discovery in, we find out that perhaps the most important thing the DNA
molecule does is store light—both in our physical body and in our energetic duplicate body as well. Obviously, conventional science is significantly
in need of an overhaul. There is a great deal of information about biological life that we simply do not know, or recognize, in the mainstream sense.
The DNA Phantom Effect is arguably one of the most significant scientific discoveries in modern history. It shows us that the DNA molecule has
some bizarre relationship with quantum mechanics that our scientists have not yet discovered in the mainstream world. We now have proof that
DNA is interfacing with an unseen, yet-undiscovered energy field that is not electromagnetic, but which obviously can control electromagnetic
energy—in this case by storing photons, even when there is no physical molecule there to hold them in place.
And that’s not all. When Gariaev blasted this Phantom with liquid nitrogen, which creates a sudden burst of great cold, the light spiral would
disappear—but then it mysteriously returned after five to eight minutes.8 This persistence of the DNA Phantom—our energetic duplicate—even in
the face of seemingly certain destruction, is very strange. Even if you destroy the coherence in the area where the DNA Phantom had been, in this
case by the sudden blast of cold, it will repair and restore that coherence once more. The surrounding light will again be organized into the unique
spiraling pattern of the DNA that used to be there. Conventional science has nothing to offer us that can explain why this happens—but it does.
How long do you think this phantom could have lasted? Amazingly, the DNA Phantom remained visible for up to thirty days after it first
appeared.9 Gariaev could blast it with liquid nitrogen over and over again, during this entire time, but it just kept on coming back. As I’m sure you
can see, this completely challenges everything in conventional biology—not to mention physics—but it works.
This information has been available for more than twenty-five years now, and the experiment was replicated in the United States by R. Pecora in
1990—but no one ever hears about it. Obviously, the DNA Phantom is not electromagnetic—there are all sorts of strange things about it that violate
everything we know about electromagnetic energy. However, it does fit in very nicely with what we’ve been calling the Source Field. On a
microbiological level, it appears that we have an energetic duplicate. Our DNA is somehow interfacing with an energy field that has remained
largely unknown to Western scientists, and which leaves behind a phantom that can easily be measured. This means your duplicate is still doing its
job capturing light for you, even when you’re no longer there. If you’re sitting in your chair right now, reading this book, and then get up and go
somewhere else, your energetic duplicate is still spinning light into tiny little spirals, right where you were sitting—within each and every one of your
untold trillions of DNA molecules—for at least thirty days after you leave your seat. Since the sizes involved are microscopic, you can’t see any of
this with your naked eye—but Gariaev was able to measure it in the laboratory. It’s like a perfect hologram of your physical body—which is correct
down to the tiniest cell.
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It has been difficult to dig up any info on these russian 'alt' scientists that is impartial, most come from new age sites, or from skeptic's sites and both are biased to the point that it obscures what's really going on here. Which is super obnoxious.
This will be an ongoing project of mine to weed out fact from fiction. There's a lot of interesting stuff in here and I'm inclined to believe that a lot of this stuff is true in light of what I know about DNA and biophotons. I mean, the fact that biophotons exist should be enough for us to really stop and scratch our heads. Maybe people don't fully appreciate the implications of light being stored in cells and DNA. But that is a pretty incredible phenomenon when we're accustomed to light simply traveling from one place to another at a nice speed. The 'enlightenment' has really helped people to be underwhelmed by the sheer amount of magic going on in this universe. Just because we know some things, doesn't mean that this other shit shouldn't blow our minds. Why don't we know more about biophotons than we do? That, to me is very telling of where we lay import as a human race. We've found a way to capture light and we're not putting as much of our resources as possible in to learning about the mechanic of that? duh, hello?
Here is a link with some info on biophotons and talks about Garyaev a bit too. Not sure how a nobel lauerate like this man doesn't rate an article on wackipedia, but kim kardashian does, this too is telling of course. Unfortunately this link is from a new agey site, but we've got to start somewhere and at least the new agers have an open mind, if a little too open sometimes.
http://www.earth-association.org/articles/by-other-authors/biophotons-biological-lasers-on-the-hardware-establishment-of-rapport-on-past-lives-therapy.html (http://www.earth-association.org/articles/by-other-authors/biophotons-biological-lasers-on-the-hardware-establishment-of-rapport-on-past-lives-therapy.html)
Highlights:
""Biophotons are a kind of biological laser emitted by living organisms and they play an important role on cell communication and integration. The past decade has seen rapid advances in our understanding of the underlying principles of biophotons' emission and absorption. Besides their energetic aspects, biophotons can also hold an informational content. "
"Just as an example, healthy and cancer cells of the same type can be identified and discriminated by marked differences in biophoton emission."
?"The biophoton light is stored in the cells, almost exclusively inside the DNA molecules, managing processes, akin a dynamic web of light, which is constantly released and absorbed. It may reach and connect cell organelles as well as higher hierarchic levels, like cells, tissues or organs within the body, serving as the organism's main communication network"
"They were first discovered in 1923, by Russian medical scientist Professor Alexander G.Gurvitsch, who named them "mitogenetic rays" and they have been "rediscovered" by the 1970's, through an ample experimental and theoretical evidence by German biophysicist Fritz-Albert Popp, who has proved their existence, their origin from the DNA and later their coherence (laser-like nature). He has developed biophoton theory to explain their possible biological role and the ways in which they may control biochemical processes of life. The importance of this discovery has been later confirmed by other eminent scientists, such as Herbert Froehlich and Nobel laureate Ilya Prigogine."
"The studies seem to indicate that the biophotons' emission is a coherent process and that they can be modulated to carry information not only throughout the whole organism, but also to the environment, including a possible relevance on extra-sensory ways of exchange of energy/information with other live beings."
"Just to exemplify the seminal importance of this phenomenon of biophoton emission, we can only remember that photons from the sun excite electrons here on earth, leading them to higher energy states that can be used to make phosphate bonds of high energy by the process of photosynthesis. The release of the energy stored in these vegetal cells' bonds is the basic element that makes life possible on Earth. At mitochondria level, on respiratory chain processes, electrons are transferred between molecules, in a downward cascade fashion, to lower energy states, producing light and the electric current that make life possible."
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I also wonder if a person eating a fully raw diet of foods that their genes like will have greater biophoton activity than someone who's eating a dead and processed diet. My guess is yes and that bioemission activity is directly correlated to the health of the individual. This also probably ties in with the longevity (as in youthfulness) that you've been discussing dorothy.
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I would imagine that yes, someone eating raw would have higher biophoton levels if I am understanding them correctly now that they have been explained somewhat.
When I was researching alternative cancer cures wast the first time I heard the word "biophoton" but I did not understand what the word meant and I'm still struggling even after the definition above. Johanna Budwig a a nobel-prize winning German scientist back the 50's who discovered omega 3 and 6 fatty acids, saturated and unsaturated fats and a whole slew of other things came up with one of the best cancer cures. She said that she used flax seeds as her source of oil because they had the highest "biophoton" level. She also said that part of the cure was getting out into the sun every day. We know now that we need the sun for vitamin d production - but I wonder at her reasonings and if they didn't have something to do with biophotons.
This does need further research for me to be able to wrap my brain around it. I'm wondering if some of the scientists here might lend a hand.
I personally think that this subject is ripe with possibility for increasing health and truly yes - for longevity and reversing of aging and possibly the stopping of aging. I think that I have used an intuitive understanding of this in countless ways in my life already, but now might be able to understand it better consciously and intellectually and therefore be able to use it with more precision.
I'm wondering what the next step is in opening up this exploration without having the scientific training behind me.
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Dorothy - I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around it too. I have a minor in physics, and I did premed through my chiropractic college. If anything my education seems to fill me with more questions than answers.
1st I don't get why the light isn't visible. They claim that the light is continuous so why isn't it additive. If it is then why don't we emit visible trails of light. The microscopic argument only works for me with 1 separated cells DNA. As soon as we have tissue sample or a plant/ animal shouldn't there be light shooting visibly out. Unless the combo of DNA emits at different frequencies and cancels itself. They do say that there are a variety of possibilities, but few things glow so, then do most things exactly cancel?
Dorothy what in particular don't you understand? If you give me one thing I will give my best effort at an explanation.
If I could answer my question above, would it even be significant? What I would like to do is experiment with where we are drawn, as a group or in teams if it works out. Why don't we do some research? I don't want to be overly technical at first, but if get onto something we could get more reproducible and otherwise scientific. I will do so thing on my own, but I would enjoy a group project.
If Thoth or anybody wants to pick an "activity" to learn/practice I'm in. Lets get our hands dirty and not just philosophize about if it could be useful.
Dorothy - talking to my food sounded so peaceful. It's not. I really feel like a jerk, but I have to eat, so my conversations are more like pleadings for forgiveness. I think about how it would feel if it were reversed. I try to talk them into it, and see what I feel. The best feeling I get is when I just admire them, The smell appearance, beauty of my food, that sees to go over good, so I'm working with that. Mostly, I just give up and eat. I ask that they communicate with me and help me with the relationship, so that it can be better for them. I hate that they suffer, for me to eat. Its bring up old feelings I had forgoten I ever had. I don't feel better/worse about any particular food. I ask teach me once it is part of me so that we can bring good to the world in our next meal. I'm a total flake and I enjoy it, but writting it out is particularly humbling. Still, overall I feel proud of myself for the attempt.
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Ok - what I'm going to say next might sound like a foreign language - but I'm going to say it anyway. Are you familiar with the devic planes Adora? Talking to the deva keys you into the balance and order of inter-related life in a way that can ease individual sense of guilt or fear. The devas understand that we are all part of a whole and live and feed off of one another in a way that takes you out of the individual suffering yet connects you deeply still.
I can explain more if it's not just too tootie fruitie to discuss here. But I do think that hunter gatherers must have tuned into these levels.
I'm going to have to read things over again in order to even figure out what my questions are - but I sure do appreciate your willingness to help me figure it out and even more so - your willingness to actually WORK it out with experiments! I would love to partake in an endeavor like that with you.
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"Mayburov is not alone in his thinking. Other researchers have found what they believe to be evidence of cells communicating by emitting streams of biophotons. Some have even have found what they believe are associations between the emittance of biophotons and increased cell division in plants growing in close proximity; so much so that they have measured increases of up to 30%. Others have found that biophotons emitted from older eggs in a clutch, appear to inhibit the growth of immature eggs; a form of survival of the fittest, or at least the more mature."
http://phys.org/news/2012-05-cells-biophotons.html (http://phys.org/news/2012-05-cells-biophotons.html)
I think when we look at biophotons we might be looking at 'life' , the material that life is literally made out of. This light might be the crucial aspect of creating life that scientists are missing in their labs when they're trying to synthesize life from a bunch of amino acids. And think about it, the light, the biophotons, are what slowly disappear after this body has died. Maybe if it is the biophoton web that forms consciousness, then people can 'come back' to life so long as a certain amount of the biophotons that make up their human cells are shining. After a certain point, the light is too weak to be reignited and the body can no longer support 'life' or consciousness. These are just thoughts and speculation, just trying to look at the big picture.
Also I like what you girls are cooking!
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More thought food...
http://wakeup-world.com/2012/01/24/confirmed-the-eye-emits-actual-light-biophotons/ (http://wakeup-world.com/2012/01/24/confirmed-the-eye-emits-actual-light-biophotons/)
For you Dorothy, "The eyes do not age like the rest of our organs, due to the exaggerated expression of the chromosome-healing enzyme telomerase. As cells divide, important code at the end of the chromosomes can be damaged when the telomeres are sliced apart during mitosis (cell division). Like the ends of shoe strings, these telomeres are tended to and healed by the enzyme telomerase. The better shape the telomeres and the enzyme telomerase are in, the healthier will be the daughter cells following cell division, and the more long-lived and youthful these organs will be. Since the eyes have a unique level of chromosome-healing activity at their disposal, this explains so well how an aged individual’s eyes can relume brilliantly the youthful qualities of their soul."
Other excerpts
"Indeed, new research published in the Journal of Brain Research in Jan. 19 2011 show that the mammalian eye exhibits a “spontaneous and visible light-induced ultraweak photon emission.”
"These results suggest that the photochemical source of retinal discrete noise, as well as retinal phosphenes, may originate from natural bioluminescent photons within the eyes. During normal vision, the eyes are continuously exposed to ambient powerful photons that pass through various parts of the eyes, which can produce ultraweak delayed bioluminescent photons that arise from diverse parts of the eyes. Although the importance and possible role of ambient light-induced permanent delayed photons (within different parts of the eyes) during vision requires further investigation, our study may provide evidence of an origin of discrete dark noise and retinal phosphenes. "
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Just wanted to say that I'm reading and thinking. This all has to ruminate a bit. Thanks for the posts Thoth. This is an important subject to me and I appreciate your research.
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Ok - what I'm going to say next might sound like a foreign language - but I'm going to say it anyway. Are you familiar with the devic planes Adora? Talking to the deva keys you into the balance and order of inter-related life in a way that can ease individual sense of guilt or fear. The devas understand that we are all part of a whole and live and feed off of one another in a way that takes you out of the individual suffering yet connects you deeply still.
I can explain more if it's not just too tootie fruitie to discuss here. But I do think that hunter gatherers must have tuned into these levels.
I'm going to have to read things over again in order to even figure out what my questions are - but I sure do appreciate your willingness to help me figure it out and even more so - your willingness to actually WORK it out with experiments! I would love to partake in an endeavor like that with you.
Thanks for this Dorothy, Devic Planes are new to me!
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Also, http://www.truthcontest.com/entries/the-present-universal-truth/ (http://www.truthcontest.com/entries/the-present-universal-truth/)
Something interesting to chew on, as if there's not enough utterly fascinating ilk out there to think about...or experience!
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The Biology of Belief by Bruce Lipton is excellent in this regard, showing how the surface of a cell is a complex processing system capable of sending and receiving signals in a wide variety of physical formats. Basically Bruce shows how the cell wall is a semi-conductor with gates and channels giving over 10,000 processing / signally elements per cell. So the cell wall is the processor (and the DNA is the disk drive, with methalation and sulfation as the write back to the DNA):
"Lipton was able to conclude that “the membrane is a liquid crystal”. Additionally, Lipton continues his defining by noting that only some things may pass through the membrane while others can not. “The membrane is a semiconductor”. Lastly, Lipton notes that a membrane has receptor or “gate” and channel molecules. “The membrane contains gates and channels”. Lipton’s final description of the membrane is “The membrane is a liquid crystal semiconductor with gates and channels.” This redefined cell is important because of it’s similarity in definition to a computer chip. “A crystal semiconductor with gates and channels”. In other words, cell membranes and computer chips are structurally and functionally equivalent. This hypothesis was confirmed in 1997 by an Australian research consortium headed by B.A.Cornell when they successfully turned a biological cell membrane into a digital-readout computer chip."
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Miker for the Win! Thanks buddy, that is on my book list!
I'm downloading it now, it's available on audiobook free as a torrent if anyone is interested...
http://www.demonoid.ph/files/details/2137808/34964624/ (http://www.demonoid.ph/files/details/2137808/34964624/)
You might have to be a member to dl, I don't know, if so I might be able to dropbox it to someone when it downloads for me.
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Just got done listening to a 'Sounds True' presentation by bruce lipton, pretty fascinating stuff. Will definitely be spending more time on epigenetics!
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Got this in the news letter from Lipton, anyone in Cali might find it illuminating...!
For those of you unfamiliar, Lipton was supposedly seeing epigenetic effects in the lab before epigenetics existed as a concept. This info and idea ties in with the core of our way of life. That is, it's not that we just get sick, 'because', but instead it's a response to something we've put in to our bodies or the way we've felt or thought and other external stimuli. This will revolutionize science, because it will bring the proper perspective or lens to the mainstream, which is the reason currently that they get everything so backwards.
_________________________________________
Dear Imaginal Cells and Cultural Creatives:
Please join me for this event in San Francisco either live or online:
I am a passionate advocate for a new way of living, one in which we...
* Recognize that by 7 years of age, children have absorbed most of the beliefs that will be with them for life.
* Understand that our genes don't determine our fates.
* Realize that what happens to us is shaped by what we think.
And THIS FRIDAY, I will appear live in San Francisco and online to tell us why intelligent optimism is the route prescribed by both science and spirituality for moving into the world we all know instinctively has been waiting just out of reach all our lives.
“I want people to understand that we are creating this world.” Change what we think, and everything from our careers to our cultures will shift–and the title of the OdeNow event, Spontaneous Evolution, speaks to the speed of the transformation that I believe is possible once we make that shift. Learn More: http://www.odenow.com/brucelipton/ (http://www.odenow.com/brucelipton/)
In Light and Love,
Bruce
Join with us to move the world forward in the way we all know it needs to go. Attend Spontaneous Evolution with me–and bring a friend.
Date: June 15, 2012
Time: Live event: 6:00 – 8:30 pm PDT, start online: 7:00 pm PDT
Location: Fort Mason Center, San Francisco and online
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http://www.demonoid.me/files/?category=17&subcategory=0&language=0&quality=0&seeded=0&external=2&query=lipton&uid=0&sort= (http://www.demonoid.me/files/?category=17&subcategory=0&language=0&quality=0&seeded=0&external=2&query=lipton&uid=0&sort=)
For anyone interested in epigenetics a la Bruce Lipton, here is the page on demonoid where you can find a few torrents. I've run in to problems downloading some of the torrents, saying 'invalid bencoding', but at least 2 of the links work. Also, Some of the other links are for non lipton works.
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Oh No! More to read and process! :P ;D
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Well Dorothy, Bruce ends his book saying that OK so if every single cell is a very powerful biological entity, which even individually have high levels of information processing ability, what is controlling it all?
He decided it was the brain in control, and therefore the question is how to cultivate the function of the mind, which takes you on to meditation, energy exercises, RAVF, sleep, exercise and anything you can do to improve your brain function and vitality.
So you can skip all Bruce's stuff and go straight for continuing your personal cultivation : )
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Well Dorothy, Bruce ends his book saying that OK so if every single cell is a very powerful biological entity, which even individually have high levels of information processing ability, what is controlling it all?
He decided it was the brain in control, and therefore the question is how to cultivate the function of the mind, which takes you on to meditation, energy exercises, RAVF, sleep, exercise and anything you can do to improve your brain function and vitality.
So you can skip all Bruce's stuff and go straight for continuing your personal cultivation : )
Whew Miker (that is you right?) you just saved me a great deal of effort! Thanks! ;)
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Yeah that's miker, but this stuff is fascinating and knowing the why's and how's of it is pretty important.
Epigenetics is the scientific school of study I was waiting for to prove that we were not designed flawed, it's big time nurture that is the problem. It's kind of important that when people ask us about why we eat and live the way we do, that we have some kind of intelligible response. Epigenetics, along with all the studies on heat-created toxins, is that response.
_ Of course everyone can do what they want, but when you start using big words like that (epigenetics, HCA, lipid peroxides), most people shut up and listen since they can't add much to the discussion.
Lol and damn, Dorothy, they're on audiobook, not much effort required, lol I'm totally jk!
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The Biology of Belief, by Bruce Lipton, is definitely worth a read in my opinion. The last chapter in the book is the most interesting (imo), but you probably have to read the whole book to properly understand the last chapter.
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LOL Thoth - you don't seem to understand - I still rent books on AUDIO TAPE - you know - with the ribbons - from the library to get audio books! I still haven't got one of those "new-fangled" gadget thingies to download books onto. I know, I know - I just HAVE to catch up!
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Hey, I feel you on that! But it does make it a lot easier in terms of 'set it and forget it'.
All you have to do is quickly search out a bunch of books, download their torrent files and then leave your computer on all the time, especially at night when more bandwidth is available. And they just kind of *poof* in to your database quietly over time, some faster, some slower.
But the library is great too! Just not the sheer selection available on the web.
And you don't actually have to read everything, a lot of books you can just go to amazon.com and see people argue the points back and forth to get the gist. Then you can zero in on concepts from there and get to the meat of it, whatever is actually true or discernible!
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Hey, I feel you on that! But it does make it a lot easier in terms of 'set it and forget it'.
All you have to do is quickly search out a bunch of books, download their torrent files and then leave your computer on all the time, especially at night when more bandwidth is available. And they just kind of *poof* in to your database quietly over time, some faster, some slower.
But the library is great too! Just not the sheer selection available on the web.
And you don't actually have to read everything, a lot of books you can just go to amazon.com and see people argue the points back and forth to get the gist. Then you can zero in on concepts from there and get to the meat of it, whatever is actually true or discernible!
Download a torrent file - I guess that's audio? But I don't listen to books sitting at my computer, I listen to books when doing other boring things - like cleaning up my mess in the kitchen, gardening, shopping, painting etc. etc. For that I need a doo dad to download onto. Ok - I know they have a name and it's easy and all that - but you would be surprised how much energy learning even one of these new things takes for me.
I'll ask my husband to help me, but it will be yet another project. Even the library now is putting all their new audio books into downloads. No more discs or tapes! I feel like a dinosaur. Grrrrrr. Be careful little humans.
I promise to move into the 21st century eventually. ;D
But that suggestion about Amazon.com was precious!
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Its been awhile since I read the book but I remember really liking it. I trust Wilcock and trust that he has his facts straight, more often than not. Of course its going to be hard to believe some things even if the proof is right there, this kind of stuff wasn't Hardwired into our Brains during our schooling. It is actually discouraged. My friend has a good bit about what I'm talking about in his video here:
My Out-Of-Body Experiences (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN5HZG7VhRg#)
Anyway, its hard to acknowledge, for example, that there is anything significant to 2012 when we have been conditioned to think our ancestors were idiots. Yeah their stupid calendars and stories mean nothing.
Wow we're halfway through 2012 already. Thanks for dabbing me into a little Cosmic Conciousness Thoth, my mind has been a little closed recently, for some reason. Maybe its because I feel like shit all the time.
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I hope you start to feel better soon DD with your new diet. It really can help.
2012 I scoff at not because I think our ancestors are idiots - but because I think we are idiots. ;) I mean it's a calendar! The Mayans were incredibly cyclical in their thinking, so why oh why do we assume that when they got to the end of their largest calendar which was as far as they happened to go because they probably didn't think they needed to think more ahead or plan more ahead, that they thought everything was going to end? I mean, we do the same thing at the end of our cycles. At the millenium many thought the world was coming to an end too. When we get to the end of our calendars each year, we don't assume that it's the end of it all. Collectively we just can't get our minds wrapped around as large cyclical patterns as the Mayans were able to. I look at it as 2012 is just the Mayan's December.
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Thanks for the WellWishes. :)
It isnt just about the calendar... I dont have the book handy but Wilcock goes into alot of different details regarding 2012. And he doesn't believe the "doom'n'gloom" stories that are portrayed in the media, he believes 2012 may kick off something of a Golden Age for humankind.
One little aspect I'm remembering is Wilcock's condensation of evidence that there massive changes going on in our Solar System, Right Now, affecting Earth, all of the planets, and the Sun. These are Massive Changes but as McKenna says, we are Immune to Change so it feels like nothing is happening to us and we go on with our day.
Youtube is a good way to familiarize yourself with Wilcock's material, but be warned he might look like a quack to you because the way we're conditioned to look at things. I certainly remember getting QuackVibes from him, but I question and dismiss these judgements... as I said, we are simply taught to discredit such "OutThere" things, that doesn't mean that they're not true
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DD - I am totally de-conditioned due to my own personal experiences. Funny thing though is that all that does is make me more sensitive and upset to the "quack" contingent out there because this stuff is too near and dear to me. I don't like it being treated lightly, being all bunched together or presented in a way that is easily dismissed. I've scanned the book so I think I'll pass on the videos - too slow videos.
I did however get my MP3 player. Yahoo! So I can now download torrents and books galore and listen while I'm doing other things. I'll be catching up to you soon Thoth.
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Yeah I like to think of myself as deconditioned too... the OldProgramming is still hidden there though and it likes to surface and do WeirdThings to my perception... I'll be watching a dedicating investigator sharing groundbreaking information and all of a sudden I'm getting vibes like hes my stupid friend at school lying to me just because he can. Our Traumatizing Childhood Experiences affect us in very Weird UnExamined ways
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Sure DD. They seem to be never-ending don't they? But they do get less and less over time with the work and they do make less and less impact over time too. Knowing where the reaction is coming from is more advanced than 99.9999999% of people out there! It's the first step. You've got it going in the right direction and that's the most important part.
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The more deconditioning/mind expanding/reconditioning I do, the more I realize how it is deeply part of me. Eating raw and being healthier is huge for decontioning and despelling myth. Doing/witnessing is more profound than reading/listening. Other people watching me eat raw and seeing me be healthier/not die affects them more than reading it in the paper. 20yr/a I meet a girl who lived in a cabin without water or electric. Before meeting her I loved the mall and frivolous things. After becoming friends a visiting her I was changed forever. I value quiet, nature, simple, rustic, etc.
Since going raw I have released tons of fear/judgement and embraced myself more, still I see how much further I am to go.
I want to do some of these activities. I've gotten out of the reading (focusing on pressing matters), but I could do a little more, I want to experepment. If anybody reads from this or another mind expansive type activity to do as a group, or individual I would like to participate.
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Wow, I just wrote a long response to Adora's post on creating experiments and my left hand made it go away.
I guess a part of me isn't so into doing an experiment when my conscious self is or maybe I'd have to understand a group experiment before knowing if I'd be into it or not?
Did you have any ideas Adora on an activity?
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Well we can all meditate on a particular subject, idea, change etc. Or all meditate on love or gratitude, unity.
People can try to send animal visitors. Like I saw a rattlesnake on the road a couple nights ago, which I asked for with visualizations, specifically that snake. I feel like I've done that with friends too.
Any ideas?
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Enjoy! And I recommend you give this 60 seconds before you form preconceptions based on what you're reading and seeing at this moment.
Spirit Science 15 - Power of the Heart (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c3AVj66ahg#ws)
holla!
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We would all do well to watch this series morningly and nightly... enjoy your consciousness!
Unity Consciousness, Part 1 of 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5EDktQz5cM#)
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I found this post while researching (google) Gariaev and his theories and felt you all might be interested in the attached published paper so I registered for an account just to post to you. It was found using Google.ru - It is easier to find foreign research when you use their form of Google you just have to translate searches and such. I was lucky to find this paper in English. By the way, although my direction is Raw Vegan, I'm glad you are all finding the pathway to fresh raw foods and the coherent light path. For obvious reasons I probably won't be here often but you are more than welcome to message me privately if you are interested in research I have found. Peace.
Scott
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That was awfully thoughtful of you homesteader! I know I'm grateful for it, the more info, the more material, knowledge, ideas, power, the better. I remember thinking how I wished it was easier to hunt down the Russian studies mentioned in the book, you obviously read my mind,I appreciate it ;-)