Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Off Topic => Topic started by: sabertooth on June 19, 2012, 02:46:46 pm
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Monogamy vs. Polyamory, w/Daniel Vitalis, episode #549 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwxvYhskLDk#)
It seems to me that Vitalis gives the most well articulated and well balanced view on the subject.
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Daniel is a Supreme politician.
I was just shooting the breeze with a fellow RPD practitioner and he's American white... and after more than a decade living in the Philippines he saw just how polygamy / polyamory worked in my (primitive) culture. The women want it. They know the man is married and the more they keep hitting at you. (Whether you are Filipino or White).
And this is why tourists and expats say "It's more fun in the Philippines".
I don't know if it is the same thing with all you ladies out there in the world, but in my country, a young lady should NEVER tell her friends or sisters or cousins or nephews that her boyfriend or husband is a very good man... it's like painting a bulls eye at him... there you go ladies... that's my endorsement... now make a stampede for my guy... line up... and see if he can be your sperm donor...
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In the 1500s when the Spanish arrived in my islands they were shocked to see that virtually all the males had various forms of attachments on their penises... all designed to pleasure the women.
Shows just how sexual women were in the 1500s... they wanted manly men.
Even in the 1980s my driver was assigned in less civilized areas as a soldier and he had to get a penis attachment because women didn't desire a man without a penile attachment.
Just saying that the primitive woman's point of view is different.
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Then there was the story of an elderly Filipino man I met who was assigned to manage a bank in one of the black african countries (can't remember which).
And he saw that women, even his employees, were having babies left and right without marrying a man and with different men.
And he was dumbfounded and asked why.
And the women said, they just wanted to.
( this was in the 1980s )
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Lol, GS you are priceless!
I doubt your message will be well received by the goddesses here, but who knows?
How do you feel about the vice versa? One woman get's lots of guys?
I'm all about polyamory, but not in any kind of ratio, just natural free love, kind of like the 60's, but without the in your faceness and rebelliousness, it's just, if you're attracted to more than one person you shouldn't be limited, and neither should they. This is super radical I know, but try to see it from an infinite love perspective. Monogamy to me is very possessive, and I don't know that any one person is good for a lifetime match, unless that happens naturally. Marriage is one of the single worst ideas we've ever had, just like agriculture, yuckinsky.
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>> How do you feel about the vice versa? One woman get's lots of guys?
That's so common.
Never ever trust women, even your own wife. Women are designed to lie to men and men are designed to be suckers of lying women. The only thing a man can trust is in DNA Paternity Tests.
I've seen this first hand with my women friends and relatives and my employees and acquaintances.
Women are promiscuous until they get the sperm / genes they want / prefer for their offspring.
They just shut up and act like saints when they've met their quota of children.
- a provincial woman working in the city will usually have 2 boyfriends... one in the province and one in the city.
- lonely women will target approach a man to be their lover
- women who aren't sexually satisfied with their husbands will get a lover
- women at a young age will try to shame a boy into just having 1 girl friend, all the while the young woman may have several boyfriends... and when and if she gets pregnant she looks for the sucker who will catch her.
Given anonymity women are just as and even more promiscuous than men.
IF you as a man want to take advantage of getting these women who cheat... you have to guarantee anonymity.
Although you might wind up dead if her husband or boyfriend is a policeman, a soldier, a politician... happened publicly to a young actor fooling around with a mature beautiful mistress with 5 children... young actor got caught by big time politician and warlord Alpha Male husband... and he and his bodyguards... made an example of the young actor... public spectacle!
Our current President's sister, herself ultra rich and born of a rich family, actress, host, public endorser is a sperm collector... collecting only quality sperm from quality married / previously married men with children, actors and athletes. Her life is an open book. Whichever men she chased around and finally conquered and got her sperm to make her babies.
I have seen so many things that these women do... that Maury show is spot on.
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In fact most Western women do indeed say nasty, false things/moan about their boyfriends if their boyfriends are of any quality, precisely because they don't want competition.
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Isn't one "women" thread enough room to bash on?
If I hadn't already learned about the paleo diet from Phil on another forum and came here first and saw all the woman bashing here like I did when I first got here without already knowing the value of the raw paleo diet, I would have spent a couple of minutes and left and would have lost out on so much important knowledge about diet to be gained.
GS, what if you went to a new forum and saw multiple threads on how much everyone thought that Phillipinos were liars etc. Anyone, take your own ethnic group and fill in the blanks.
Anyone new reading this - this has absolutely NOTHING to do with the raw paleo diet. The "Off Topic" section does not depict us all or even give you a clue of what might happen to your thought processes, beliefs etc. when going paleo and by far does not depict accurately the general community. A lot of us just don't want to have anything to do with such conversations - that's why they seem so skewed.
Just had to throw that in just in case a new intelligent woman happens by.
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Sorry about that.
I apologize, I'm wrong to derail this thread.
Daniel Vitalis made me do it. He's such a politician / salesman... what's the latest, deer antler velvet?
Daniel ranted on and on and didn't make any sense.
He was trying so hard to be "safe".
(Hopefully, I'm on topic this time.)
All this notion of pair bonding for life is not true... not exclusively monogamous anyway. How many girlfriends and boyfriends most people these days have before they get married. And how many times do they get married?
The more honest observers are that of "The Selfish Gene" and "Sperm Wars" and for TV it's the Maury Show.
And just look at divorce rates and family mash ups.... it's not pair bonding for life that I see.
There are very few for life monogamies all throughout (or the infidelities are hidden) and that is idealized.
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Sorry about that.
I apologize, I'm wrong to derail this thread.
Daniel Vitalis made me do it. He's such a politician / salesman... what's the latest, deer antler velvet?
Daniel ranted on and on and didn't make any sense.
He was trying so hard to be "safe".
(Hopefully, I'm on topic this time.)
All this notion of pair bonding for life is not true... not exclusively monogamous anyway. How many girlfriends and boyfriends most people these days have before they get married. And how many times do they get married?
The more honest observers are that of "The Selfish Gene" and "Sperm Wars" and for TV it's the Maury Show.
And just look at divorce rates and family mash ups.... it's not pair bonding for life that I see.
There are very few for life monogamies all throughout (or the infidelities are hidden) and that is idealized.
Thanks GS. :D
For what it's worth when I opened the video I was expecting to hear a discourse that supported anthropologically what you said above GS or some such thing. My first impression on seeing Daniel was, "Wow, he's looking good! He seems so happy and healthier. I wonder if he is doing something different in his diet." Then as time went on I realized that the guy is in Love. It's clear that he's really wanting his monogamous relationship to continue and to deepen. I'm happy for him! Making a long-term relationship of any kind be successful usually takes commitment, honesty and good communication skills. They are rare, but when achieved can bring to people a profundity of good feeling and security like nothing else.
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Polygamy is not ‘wrong’
Monogamy is not ‘right’
Just like raw paleo, both are simply a reflection of a consciousness. In order to have found monogamy most satisfying one would have to have found truly unconditional love for another. Not only do your souls have to collide, but both have to be open to fully giving and fully receiving. A miraculous event given the easy temptation to give in to pride, money, chemistry, or just the unexplained habit to push happiness and success away. I can see how polygamy would be great for latter, but once one finds that unconditional relation, there just is no other that can touch you the same.
As for women being nasty, cheating liars and men just doing what they were born to do... I'm really over the double standard. Can't we move on? Can't we have a discussion about this topic without it being an insult to one gender or the other?? Please stop making generalizations about women. It is more hurtful than you can possibly have the compassion to realize. You (men) have your deplorably toxic thread, please keep your wisdom there. The women here do not reciprocate, nor do we care to participate…. But I bet the women you described above would.... is that the conversation you're looking for?
It's supposed to be enlightening/informative/mind-opening to talk about 'off topic' subjects with like-minded people.... isn't it??
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My main impression of Daniel Vitalis, is that he is a true seeker that is earnestly going through a process of maturation. He has grown in wisdom and happiness since his days of blind vegetarianism. He has had a multitude of experiences with celibacy, polyamory, and now monogamy. It took trying out all these different paths in order to learn enough about life and love to make him the love guru in the video below.
Say what you will about human kinds sexual confusion: as far as I can see Daniels outlook and attitudes seem very sane, and healthy. Even if he is a bit far out and new age.
He seems to be living an enjoyable life and is continually growing, maturing, and thriving.
Daniel Vitalis on Sex & Orgasm (Part I of II), episode #366 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMO5W3KZazM#)
Daniel Vitalis on Circumcision & Female Orgasm, Episdoe #367 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHwsygNWW2s#)
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In fact most Western women do indeed say nasty, false things/moan about their boyfriends if their boyfriends are of any quality, precisely because they don't want competition.
I think it may be more of a war against the male ego, that causes women to say negative things about their partner. Its the egoism of an unchecked partner man or woman that will lead one to stray from the relationship.( Its a "I am better than you so I deserve better" mentality) My woman has to point out some of stupid things I do each and every day, because if she doesn't my unchecked ego would run amok leading me to all kinds of rascally behavior.
She had to find ways to instill a feeling fear and inadequacy to make me so afraid and unsure to even attempt looking at an other woman during the first few years of our relationship. The few times I was caught the backlash was so strong, that I think its given me some kind of neurotic complex, I still cant seem to get over.
This type of battle line interaction is necessary in immature relationships ( especially between refugees of a denigrated culture such as yours truly} in order to keep checks and balances on a couple that doesn't truly trust or like one other. The constant slinging of arrows against egos can become so ingrained into the fabric of daily interactions that it is often hard to cease firing even after the relationship has matured and true loving acceptance becomes more present.
The war is now over in our household, after 6 years we have both surrendered and no longer demand exclusivity from each other. In fact we will often have a good time together helping each other think of ways to flirt with our other crushes. {Its become a new game}. The romance has returned and we are snuggling and spooning more than ever.
Still I feel unsure of initiating extra marital relations, even though the urge is high and the barriers low. Its a lingering guilt that was burned into my being during the first few years of the war.
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Only 20% of men in all history have passed on their genes to the next generation who's the ones who are shopping around for the best product?
I really think what women say is an unconcious way to weed out the Beta males 'Be a good guy, just one woman, be nice, get a good job' even your mum probably unconciously says these things even though she wants you to answer back and be cheeky.
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I believe that there is some kind of subconscious culling of men with sub alpha traits. Though its difficult to discuss these matters without ruffling a few tail feathers.
The problem is that a lot of what people find amorous is still heavily influenced by cultural conditioning, so that women having been raised by inadequate and broken men really wont have a good good example of a true Alpha male to set the standard upon.
There is a woman I am trying to corral at the present moment. She is very sweet on me, and there is good chemistry between us. Sadly she is the victim of unfortunate circumstance. She is a codependent that was in a long term relationship with an alcoholic. Even though she is very intelligent and goes to al anon meetings and she really wants to be able to be loved by a better type of man, there still seems to be this kind of barrier that prevents her from giving herself fully to a man who doesn't exhibit the same negative addictive traits as her EX.
An upstanding, well built, confident male who is a good role model for her son and shows her abundant affection, is something she just isn't able to accept, because her internal wiring has been set up in the role of a codependent.
Codependents do not know where to fit into a relationship with a truly well intended and well rounded lover, that doesn't have any major problems. They often unconsciously seek out low life's. Then wonder why there arnt any good mates in the world.
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May I point out that there are male and female alphas and in humans it is not only the alphas that mate like in some other species. Not every man really wants an alpha female and not every female really wants an alpha male. You might think they do - but the relationships that are monogamous and work are about balance and honesty - especially with oneself! Alphas don't have to work at it - it just is - and they don't go a-blustering. Most of the ones that like to think they are alphas aren't really because they aren't calm and natural in the role. If you are attracted to others that want to control you or to broken people - I highly doubt you are a natural alpha. But who cares? Being an alpha isn't all that it's made out to be! Alphas in other species usually are stressed by responsibility and die early.
Everything that was said about women goes equally for men. Most issues with relationships are those of being a human being.
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There is a woman I am trying to corral at the present moment...
Aren't you married, with children?
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Everything that was said about women goes equally for men. Most issues with relationships are those of being a human being.
I agree totally, and only mentioned alpha males in response to Wodgina. The terms alpha and beta work well in reference to the lower pack animals like wolfs.
Humans although they share much in common with wolfs have a much more advanced social hierarchy. In which traditionally general roles were played by differnt members of the tribe in accordance to individual attributes. The strongest fittest and wisest men and women, by virtue of their value to the communitte gained the love and admiration of the others in the tribe. The top dogs were rewarded for thier hard work and leadership by the respect of the community as a whole as well as sexual favors by those who became enamored with their virtue.
Betas in tribal societies were played very important supporting roles and were still able to take mates of their own, and be loved and accepted by the communtiee.
Personally I prefer a beta role or at least a middle ground between the two. I want to be admired and fawned over by the women in the community, and someone for the youth to look up to. I want a chance to earn the love of other women by acts virtue and honor.
The problem is not that that people are being divided and labled, The problem is the fact that we no longer have an established social hierarchy within modern culture based on tribal values. Men and women are no longer rewarded by virtue of their value to a community. Its almost a hindrance for peoples in metropolitan environments to take time out to be a good role model and help the others around them out of good will. There are no longer strongly deffined Alpha or Beta roles for people to play. The Alphas of today are labeled assholes, and the betas codependents. The order of human hierarchy within the modern world is in chronic disarray.
I am trying in my own life to change all that. By working hard everyday to support a family. Joining a community and taking time to witness other peoples kind acts. Trying to be a good role model for the youth. All I ask in return is a chance to get it on with more than one partner in return.
Aren't you married, with children?
Thats the point of this thread, we are exploring polyamory as a legitimate path. My love of my Brood Mare should not exclude me being able to love other desiring women in the community.
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for what its worth, regardless of what type of relationships one chooses, trust and honesty are paramount.
If a couple mutually decide to see other people then the nature of the relationship is transparent.
But if a commitment is made to monogamy, and then there is sneaking around seeing other partners on the side, there is dishonesty in the relationship which is both individually and collectively damaging.
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It is interesting that polyamorists on line say that their partners possible lovers need to be introduced to and Ok'd by the person / people they live with, as the new person could be hanging around their place a lot. So they say they aim to be honest rather than the traditional religious hidden cheating style.
I am intrigued GS what your amorous arrangements are?
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Polyamory is more usually a relationship whereby one or both members of a couple have sex with others, including with members of the same gender as the person. Simply having affairs with members of the opposite sex while married is just "playing away with a mistress", nothing more.
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It is interesting that polyamorists on line say that their partners possible lovers need to be introduced to and Ok'd by the person / people they live with, as the new person could be hanging around their place a lot. So they say they aim to be honest rather than the traditional religious hidden cheating style.
I am intrigued GS what your amorous arrangements are?
I have a blog called www.pronatal.org (http://www.pronatal.org) you can probably read in between the lines.
Women have a bigger say in all this talk.
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It is interesting that polyamorists on line say that their partners possible lovers need to be introduced to and Ok'd by the person / people they live with, as the new person could be hanging around their place a lot. So they say they aim to be honest rather than the traditional religious hidden cheating style.
I am intrigued GS what your amorous arrangements are?
Sabertooth, on the same note, with your wife's history of possessiveness, what do you think her actual reaction will be when another woman is actually part of the picture instead of just flirting? Do you worry at all that you will lose your family and children by this experiment? A lot of people go along to try to make their partner happy, but then when it comes down to brass tacks things can get messy and emotions high if it's not all really honest and the real wish of both parties. When it comes down to children and the obviously wonderful relationship you have with your kids, that's when in our society things can get tricky no?
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My very good guy friend 42, is a dedicated honest monogamous man...
His wife 46 started having a badminton affair.
They got into fights over this.
So now my friend no longer comes with his wife to badminton. His wife no longer comes with her office staff for badminton and she has a new badminton group my friend is not privy to.
The Wife says to her husband that he's free to go get a girl of his own. He doesn't like that. He still gets to score with his wifey.
( Good guys finish last. )
They have 2 boys. Wife is ligated / hysterectomied.
I just advised my friend to let her have her fun... as it is totally impossible for her to get pregnant in any way... no equipment... must be a surgical side effect. She will be 50 soon.
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Daniel is speaking from the point of view of someone who hasn't tried marriage and children yet... he's in "love." as Dorothy sees Daniel now.
I'm speaking from my experience and as an observant amateur social scientist observing what happens fast forward many decades later on... you should all try interviewing seniors in their 70s and 80s... they spill all the beans.
Women usually do not enable monogamy. Most will at some point clamp down and shun sex (not just my wife)... in their 20s, in their 30s, in their 40s, in their 50s... and then that leaves men with no choice but to seek sex elsewhere... besides the fact that a very big percentage of young women I see around me have absolutely no respect for the wives of married men and pursue married men themselves.
The selfish genes. Both men and women are predators.
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If a wife shuns sex - that says something not only about her - but about her partner. Women as they age get actually more sexual with partners that they enjoy and that give them what they need/want emotionally/energetically - like your friends wife GS with her lover. That has been my observation. Women don't stop wanting good sex - just bad, selfish or dishonest sex. Just like with singing voices, men hit their peaks in their 20's - but women in the 40's and 50's.
A marriage takes TWO people - so if the other half isn't doing/giving what you want - the best place to get it to change is with yourself. Take the effort to communicate and learn something new and give more of what the other person wants and you might be surprised. What they might want might be something outside of actual sex so that they feel loved and appreciated or something else that might seem unrelated. It takes real listening to figure out what you could be doing to make your partner want you more - and maybe some thinking outside of the box.
Daniel sounds like he's into listening and working with his partner. I think they might have a chance. At least I'm wishing him complete success. I hope I'm still alive when he's 80 to hear that he had a wonderful love and life with his mate!
I've listened to lots of really old folk too GS. It's the same for them as it is for the young ones. If both partners are willing to listen, change, adapt and want to please it just keeps going. If either of them was selfish it was bad in the beginning and stays bad til the end.
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For the sake of full disclosure, to avoid these misunderstandings I'll try to answer these concerns.
Sabertooth, on the same note, with your wife's history of possessiveness, what do you think her actual reaction will be when another woman is actually part of the picture instead of just flirting? Do you worry at all that you will lose your family and children by this experiment? A lot of people go along to try to make their partner happy, but then when it comes down to brass tacks things can get messy and emotions high if it's not all really honest and the real wish of both parties. When it comes down to children and the obviously wonderful relationship you have with your kids, that's when in our society things can get tricky no?
I appreciate your concern for the well being of my family.
I've heard the same mantra from many other well intentioned people from the beginning, and it is hard to refute such highly ingrained conceptions about the link between infidelity and family break up.
My father and mother tried a monogamous relationship and failed miserably. He was a hound dog and always will be, and my mother enjoyed prostituting herself for extra money. They had totally unrealistic expectations of what it takes to make a family, and ended up screwing up my own view of things in the process. There are countless more examples of people I know who failed to keep a family together even though they gave monogamy a try.
There will always have be conflicting emotional troubles in the relationship between me and the mother of my children. I knocked her up three months into the relationship, and we were both forced by the conventions of the time to enter into a domestic partnership. Most people could never fathom the complexity of our particular life's problems. We both were clueless and lost at the beginning. We were possessive and mistrusting of each other, and neither of us could accept each others polyamorus feelings, so there was a lot of suppressed emotional tension constantly. I am as guilty as she was of being possessive.
These issues never totally went away and are still not completely resolved. What we have come to agree on is that its time to break the chains of a sexual monogamy that neither of us ever believed to fit our nature.
To be even more bluntly honest my partner came to me about finding someone to help me love her ( I think the slang term is run train), so I found a guy who I thought would fit in and gave her permission to seduce him. Soon after she began courting this other man it became apparent that she didn't just want some casual sexual encounter with another man , but instead wanted to be in a more meaningful relationship. At the time right before all this she was really unhappy all the time, complaining of depression and just didn't have any spark in her eyes anymore. Then after I gave her the ok to start chasing this other guy a huge change came over her. She began working out and eating better. She had that spark of happiness that I just couldn't deny her the chance at romance.
Naturally I felt a little left out and so got her to allow me to start pursuing an other woman. This is where we are right now. I feel good about the possibility of new love and romance. My testosterone is pumping ever higher and now that I have found a lady friend to focus my attention on , I no longer am so jealous of the other man. She is a nice older woman who is sweet, and she has a boy who is friends with my son. We have gone out on a play date with the kids, and have a lot in common, but we are still playing coy. I love the romance and mystery of courting just as much as the mating ritual.
My wife and her boyfriend have been taking things very slowly, as well. She goes to visit him, on average, once a week and they have kissed, snuggled and messed around a bit but six weeks into their relationship, have yet to be fully intimate. He is waiting for the right time and this has given her a new found sense of peace and security, perhaps even a little bit of restored self confidence that someone could want to actually spend time with her without using her and tossing her when he is through.
To quote one of my wife's favorite songs by her favorite singer,
"All we have to see
Is that I don't belong to you
And you don't belong to me
Freedom
You've gotta give for what you take
Freedom
You've gotta give for what you take."
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Dorothy, my wife's story is she's had 3 c-sections and 1 appendectomy. So she's been surgery traumatized enough + sever post partum on the 3rd child. And I understand that. As far as fooling around with contraception, we are health nuts, so we aren't into that. She knows I just love children. And my blogs are public. And that I tell people I'm looking for 4 wives per son.
Sabertooth, the only pitfall there is you might get cuckolded (she gets pregnant with her boyfriend).
I personally draw the line at cuckolding. Although if that's a golden child and the child support is skyrocketing high then it maybe advantageous.
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Sabertooth - thank you for telling that whole story. Obviously the standard concerns of the woman leaving with your children based infidelity and trying to punish you through withholding the children that happens so often in our society is far from your situation as your wife was the person that initiated the course of events. The fact that you both want the same thing is the key. I was a little worried for you with your obviously close relationship with your kids - and you compassionately put me at ease. It sounds like both of you have a chance at some real happiness.
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Dorothy, my wife's story is she's had 3 c-sections and 1 appendectomy. So she's been surgery traumatized enough + sever post partum on the 3rd child. And I understand that. As far as fooling around with contraception, we are health nuts, so we aren't into that. She knows I just love children. And my blogs are public. And that I tell people I'm looking for 4 wives per son.
That's sad GS. Also thank you for sharing more of your story. It sounds like your wife is incapable of having fulfilling sex any more due to all the surgeries? Or is it fully that she doesn't want to get pregnant again and doesn't want want to use contraception so doesn't want to have sex in order to prevent pregnancy? How does she feel about you being with other women?
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That's sad GS. Also thank you for sharing more of your story. It sounds like your wife is incapable of having fulfilling sex any more due to all the surgeries? Or is it fully that she doesn't want to get pregnant again and doesn't want want to use contraception so doesn't want to have sex in order to prevent pregnancy? How does she feel about you being with other women?
She doesn't want to get pregnant again and doesn't want to use contraception and I agree with that.
She's giving me away.
Maybe she will want me when I've got millions... so I'm dreaming there will be one more child... a son. I've had that name and dreamt about that son years ago. That name only goes to that son I will have with my wife.
Gotta make millions.
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Sabertooth - thank you for telling that whole story. Obviously the standard concerns of the woman leaving with your children based infidelity and trying to punish you through withholding the children that happens so often in our society is far from your situation as your wife was the person that initiated the course of events. The fact that you both want the same thing is the key. I was a little worried for you with your obviously close relationship with your kids - and you compassionately put me at ease. It sounds like both of you have a chance at some real happiness.
From my point of view, that is puzzling why your women withhold kids from their father because of infidelity. It's just not culturally the case here.
Maybe it is because your government steps in and demands child support even if the father has limited contact with his children.
Here, if the woman limits the access to the father, she won't get child support as the government has no say in any of this.
Besides, the father has his own extended family and you don't want a family feud now do you?
We mostly culturally view infidelity as a reason to part ways as ridiculous because 99% of men are womanizers. That woman is looking for something that is most likely very hard to find or almost impossible. Naive?
Why your culture makes a big issue out of Bill Clinton or Tiger Woods... eyes roll.
It's all cultural.
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Yes, it's cultural and legal in terms of divorce proceedings as is the reasons why men would all be womanizing in a particular culture and other cultures put value on monogamy and a mother's right to keep her children. Double standards are common generally when it comes to women culturally since written history. Women traditionally were considered possessions like you would own a horse a slave. This idea that the children go with the mother instead of being owned by the male lineage is a new one actually.
So GS - what's the answer to my questions above? Is your wife capable of having sex any more or is it that she just doesn't want to get pregnant again?
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I thought I answered this.
>Is your wife capable of having sex any more
Yes she is capable.
> or is it that she just doesn't want to get pregnant again?
And she does not want to get pregnant again.
She slipped 1 time after 5 years.
She slipped another 1 time after 7 years.
We can always dream.
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So, is the reason she doesn't want to get pregnant again because of all the surgeries? What affect has all those surgeries had on her?
How does she feel/what does she think about your going outside of the marriage for sex?
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So, is the reason she doesn't want to get pregnant again because of all the surgeries? What affect has all those surgeries had on her?
Yes yes... another baby means another surgery.
She's very sensitive to pain, they can't give her enough pain killers.
She suffers for more than a month with each c-section.
The last pregnancy turned into a long depression. She recovered on green honey.
Saw recently my sister in law (my brother's wife) get a 2nd c-section and she handled it like a champ... even boasted to my brother that the doctor said her uterus was good for a total of 4 children... and this was less than 24 hours after the c-section. Unlike my wife...
How does she feel/what does she think about your going outside of the marriage for sex?
She doesn't ever think about it. Doesn't talk about it.
In fact when we were much younger before we got married I didn't get any respect nor desire for her to get married after almost 6 years of BF-GF. I was raised as the good boy type like my good friend. She didn't appreciate that. I put her on a pedestal and said I wanted to marry her a virgin. She began working in another town, I visited her back and forth devotedly and begged her for marriage... after much badgering she reluctantly said yes... but panicky and frightened...
One time I surprise visited her and she didn't come home that night. She came from a party with friends and went home to the boy's house. Funny their car arrived in her home in the morning and I was waiting... Ooohhh the drama... ha ha ha.
And after the drama my wife wanted a cool off / broke up. Our engagement was over and I was shattered. My fragile belief system of monogamy, good boy being rewarded was all bullshit.
After much sadness... I started moving on and found myself a new chick.
Only then did I realize that my wife appreciated me now that I had a new chick and she demanded she come back to me... and get married. She was in the USA on a tour with her boss government administrator... she asked that she get off the trip... go back home to the Philippines to come and get me... away from the new chick.
I picked her up at the airport and she was dressed to grab her man back... short shorts and tank top.
I had enough sense to have to test her virginity, I might be catching someone elses child... what me cuckold?
Good she turned out a virgin and bled so the marriage was set and here we are.
So I learned first hand that she only appreciated me as long as there was "competition." And I had observed all throughout their family that it was par for the course for men to have extras and their women appreciated those men. Her siblings, her parents, her grandparents... it's virtually a family tradition of mistressing and bastard children.
My wife, even when we first met at 18 is the zero jealous type. She never ever minds that I walk with her and I oggle other women, or ask me why I was late or where I came from... she learned that from her mom... and she was the one who insisted we had separate money accounts instead of a pooled account... her mother taught her that. It's as if she never really cared for me is what some people think... my grandfather thinks that... but she's the mother of my 3 children... and I love her for that... plus I call her the "hottest" and the "sexiest" and "prettiest"... never the "one and only" she hates that.
On her 1st and 2nd pregnancy she surprisingly became the sweetest thing. On the 3rd pregnancy (girl) she became a raging monster. In a party we had she lashed out that this (child pointing out at her tummy) was the last... And I similarly retorted... that's your last... but not my last.
(my soul will never rest until I have met my quota of children... and my soul quota wasn't 3)
What's important for her is I make tons of money.
My family used to be quite wealthy until my parents' business empire collapsed.
Maybe when I'm wealthy again I'll get my dreamt about son.
I wanted to marry her because for me she's the prettiest and sexiest thing... 5 stars erection. As my mom taught me, marry a pretty woman so you wake up every day smiling seeing a beautiful person. That she is. But virtually sexless for 7 years... 2 encounters in 7 years is pretty sex less... and I keep seeing this sexy woman... but no sex... is torture. Happy torture?
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Hey thanks for your stories fella's
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GS - thank you for telling us so much of your personal life. It makes me understand so much of what you say that is usually out of context to the whole of who you are and your experiences. If your wife truly picked you primarily because of your family's money the answer might not be making millions - because you still won't have her heart - you will just be buying her.
I can understand your wife's issues though completely. She is in pain physically and emotionally when having children by the time she had her third.
Since you have been so generous, I'd like to ask you another question. How does your culture perceive sex without penetration? Oral sex, mutual masturbation etc. How does or would your wife react to such advances?
I'm just going to write out for you what came to my mind when reading what you wrote. Not knowing you or especially your wife personally these are flights of fancy ... but worth putting down to think about imho. With the threat of deep pain associated with sex - who would choose it? Most women believe it or not get no pleasure from sex, do not orgasm. For them sex is not at all pleasurable. But if sex could be without the negative repercussions and the two of you could get physically and emotionally close again you might learn if it is really just about money because honestly, if your wife does not love you but only loved your money, but is placed in extreme pain with the outcome of sex - money will likely not win you that son. If you can't win your wife's heart without the money - do you really have a marriage of the heart? Perhaps there would be another woman who could love you unconditionally and totally if your wife is unable. You might have picked the wrong woman for yourself if your wife never loved you. BUT - as of yet you do NOT know that she doesn't love you! You know that she is conditioned from her family. You are a healthy raw paleo and intelligent man. I bet you could get her to let you please HER. Pleasing a woman without intercourse is an art and a SCIENCE that can be learned and practiced. It would take you getting her to tell you what pleased her physically. She might not even know - you would have to keep trying until you did learn what gives her delight. If you could start to break down the chains of programming first with pushing in with a giving attitude instead (an attitude which might be new to her) she might just let go of a lot of the other programming. From what she wrote of her she sounds like she is alternative and into thinking outside the box in other realms in her life. Maybe she needs someone to help her get out of the box in the bedroom too? You think she just wanted to keep you from another woman. That's the programming. That kind of programming just can't touch one human touching another with love intimately over and over and giving deep pleasure. Loving someone that way - it's hard for them not to get won over. As her husband she might refuse you penetration because of fear, but will she turn you away when all you want to do is give her pleasure and ask nothing in return?
You could learn about that spot we talked about in the other thread to release the energy or you could learn how to take the energy up your spine and become even more healthy.
Your relationship with your wife seems to give you pain. I'm just wondering if it could somehow be transformed.
These are just ideas that came to me. I'd love to hear the thoughts that came up for you from sharing them.
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Thanks for sharing guys.
My wife hasn't wan't sex since having children 10 years ago : (
Polyamory sounds like a potential solution to this problem, although it seems that we males need to be successful in a competitive situation to obtain any interest. With most other animals where the winner in the tussles gets to pass on their genes.
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http://www.thirdage.com/sex/why-women-stop-having-sex (http://www.thirdage.com/sex/why-women-stop-having-sex)
At the end of this article it says why women reported they no longer wanted to have sex. It might not be from having the baby alone. Having a baby changes a lot for a couple and will make things even more pronounced in places where there was already something wrong.
The brain is the biggest sex organ. If a woman is angry or depressed about things with her husband that have nothing to do with sex or sex is painful or she is frightened - she's simply not going to be interested.
Alive - why does your wife say she no longer wants to have sex?
Does she no longer want you to sexually please her without penetration?
In what other ways is she unhappy?
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>> How does your culture perceive sex without penetration? Oral sex, mutual masturbation etc. How does or would your wife react to such advances?
That's already part of the bundle of 2 encounters in 7 years.
>> My wife hasn't wan't sex since having children 10 years ago : (
>> Polyamory sounds like a potential solution to this problem,
Polyamory has always been the traditional historical time tested solution for sex less ness or barrenness of a spouse.
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GS - have you tried to offer just the fun without the pain/fear letting her know in advance that you wanted nothing out of it? That's totally different than foreplay.
I'm not saying this is you or Alive - but sometimes a man can blame the woman when in fact what is really happening is that they simply do not understand their woman. Women aren't trained to talk about what they want or what's really wrong. Shame is pretty ingrained into women in all cultures. Many women, even most women! - don't enjoy sex. For many it is even painful. They do not understand that sex can be enjoyable because it never has been for them. Men are not trained/educated on how to make sex enjoyable for a woman. Women will often fake their enjoyment to make their man feel good. Most women simply cannot have an orgasm with penetration. The stress of feeling like they are going to have to go through it can take away all enjoyment after sex has become a horrible chore. Fear of anything will shut off sexual enjoyment real fast.
I'm not saying that moving on is wrong when you are with someone that doesn't love you. I'm not saying that wanting to continue to take care of your women and children and find love in other places is wrong as long as you are honest and open about it. What I'm concerned about is that your women are unhappy. It's not like finding another man who is going to give them pain and trouble is going to make it any better for them either. It's you guys that are their only hope for their sexual pleasure and happiness. You have a commitment to do your best to figure out how to pleasure your women for the long-run. You are the ones that are into paleo, advancing, growing - and being able to really pleasure a woman without putting pressure on her for children or penetration or even your own sexual pleasure is something that you can't understand the benefits of without trying it.
Going out and finding more women who you can't really pleasure might get you more children - but not necessarily the happiness of communion and real intimacy.
No woman will turn down real pleasuring and tenderness from her husband who is trying hard to please her in all areas of the relationship.
A flower, a treat in bed, little sexy presents, little tendernesses. If dropping your underwear in the bathroom bothers her - pick it up.
My husband brings me tea in bed every morning. He rubs my back. He sings little songs for me. If I'm upset about something he sits down and really listens and changes it. He supports me in what I want to do. He draws little cartoons of things I say. He doesn't bring me flowers because I rather have my garden - so he builds me raised beds! For a woman it's the small things, the little things that add up. You can have millions of dollars and it won't mean any more than that rose and foot rub. You might think the fact that you make the money and pay the bills and bought a house and run a business means more. It doesn't. You putting her FIRST is what most women want more than anything. Taking time for her to really listen means more. Just her feeling like you might leave for someone else might be enough to make her turn you away. All women want to feel like you want them the most. That's where the competition thing comes in - because then you are actively choosing her. There are ways to make a woman feel this without having to go to other women. This is something I know not only from being a woman, but from listening to women. But no one tells the MEN this! How are they supposed to know?!
Women - ask your men for exactly what you want. Don't think that if they loved you they would figure it out. I would tell my husband this is exactly what I would like you to do. This is exactly how I want you to say exactly this in this exact tone of voice. This is how I want you to touch me. He does the same with me. Now we know exactly how to make each other happy because we taught each other what to do.
Men - if your woman hasn't figured out how to tell you what she wants - train her to do it!
Communication is the key to any successful relationship and it is not taught. We learn all sorts of useful things in school, but not how to reach each other.
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I know all kinds of people who live in sex deprived relationships. Some of it could by physiological. A lot of peoples hormones are screwed up in today's world, and hormone disrupting pollutants can severely cull a woman's sex drive.
Women in pristine health should go through normal cycles of heat and crave sex regularly(regardless of how the jerks around her may act). Every now and then my lady will hit a cold streak and for about a week I will be forced to go without. Sometimes Its stress, fatigue, mensuration cycles or secretive masturbation that leads women to not put out for their men. Other times it is the mans emotional neglect of the woman's needs that put out the fire of desire. Its very possible in many cases of frigidity the cause is a combination of both physical and emotional factors.
Hormonaly disrupted females will often not give out the proper ques that would entice a man to be more tender. They will not be as receptive to a mans attempts at tenderness, and so very often the man will feel rejected and do or say something that only makes things worse. (This is all highly speculative and may not apply GS or Alives situation, but I am fairly sure its a common occurring phenomenon in the world)
I talk with this old hillbilly/ cowboy/ Romeo on the subject of womens hormonal issues, and we have a hypothesis that there is something in the environment that is not only effecting their sexual expression and drive, but is also causing epidemics of ovarian cyst, cancer, thyroid dysfunction, etc. If there are pollutants in the food and water, that are causing an epidemic rise in these conditions then it is safe to say that perhaps large portions of the population are being inundated with hormone disrupting elements. Most people exposed will not develop cancer, but they may have some of their normal hormonal functions such a sex drive impaired.
I read a book called "Our stolen future" that dealt with the subject in detail. It chronicled how pesticides such as DDT not only made the Eagles eggs weak and break , but in lower doses even if the eagles did hatch eggs, the parent birds showed behavioral dysfunctions that caused them to neglect their offspring. I think the same side effects of low dose exposure to pesticides occur in humans. It doesn't out right make you ill, but it saps you vital essence, and interferes with the physiology of instinctive sexual response.
I agree with Dorothy that there can be issues with the male not providing the right kind of tender loving care that cause frigidity. I just think that nutritional imbalances, lack of sunlight, exercise, lack other supporting relationships play just as important a role in many cases. A holistic approach should be sought out to remedy the problem of frigidity.
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I agree with you totally Sabertooth. Physiology and hormones do play a massive role in sexuality. It's hard to calculate how much of a role they play in any given relationship. The thing is that the men can't have control over that aspect except encouraging their spouses through example to eat better and do purification and get into trying to increase their health. They can however have control over the communication they offer - especially as raw paleo men with more strength. When a woman goes and masturbates on her own though - that's a sign that there are intimacy problems - because if there is a partner that wants to do that with - it's more fun to do together. ;)
Another thing might be what you alluded to - what feels natural in turns of frequency of sex to each partner. Going without for a week during cycles might not feel like a deprivation to some but others feel deprived going a day without sex. Some couple have sex only once a month or so and feel fine with that. When there is a conflict in that regard - usually the intimacy of other aspects of the relationship and deep caring allow couples to work these things out in ways that work if there is enough communication.
And btw - it's not always the women that want less sex. I want more sexual contact than my husband so I've had to do with him what I'm talking about the men doing with their women here. I don't go looking for another man - I've just learned what I need to do with the one I have and love already. ;)
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Imagine the other way around and the man comes home and says no I don't want to have sex with you and doesn't have sex with his wife for years on end. Imagine how rejected she would feel.
It seems a bit harsher for some reason. The 80/20 rule is turned upside down.
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Lots of men can't get it up in their 40s and 50s.
Good thing we are raw paleo.
As for the nice things Dorothy has about figuring out how to make wives tick again... There is always hope that they tick again... but in the meantime, men need to have sex often enough to maintain their sanity. And those sexually disabled women usually understand this... maintain sanity.
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GS, It sounds like you have been sadly disappointed in your marriage. It seems that you would rather be a faithful husband in a happy marriage if your wife were capable of receiving/returning your love for her.
Dorothy, in GS's case it might be that the fault does not lie with GS not understanding women. Maybe his wife has never been capable of receiving/returning true love because of her family background. It does not look like she married him for the right reason in the first place.
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Hormonaly disrupted females will often not give out the proper ques that would entice a man to be more tender. They will not be as receptive to a mans attempts at tenderness, and so very often the man will feel rejected and do or say something that only makes things worse. (This is all highly speculative and may not apply GS or Alives situation, but I am fairly sure its a common occurring phenomenon in the world)
Yes this sounds familiar - in my situation we are kind of swapped with our gender roles - my wife is getting out and trying earn the dollars, coming home late, working 7 days, only interested in talking about work, works on laptop in bed morning and night. I prefer to look after her and our kids - getting wife coffee in bed, dropping kids to school and back home, doing all the paperwork to keep up with my wife's investments, staying home in weekends to look after kids. We now have separate bedrooms, which is great so she can wake up at 3am and do some work on the laptop, and I can control my sleep environment. I am feeling more comfortable with my life now as I have a break from the incessant chit chat about work I get from my wife. I am now thinking of our arrangement for how good it is for all of us in my family to pursue our independent lives while enjoying the comfort and stability of a shared home.
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Shit that's huge hours.
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but in the meantime, men need to have sex often enough to maintain their sanity
that's very true if someone does not have both hands.
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Imagine the other way around and the man comes home and says no I don't want to have sex with you and doesn't have sex with his wife for years on end. Imagine how rejected she would feel.
It seems a bit harsher for some reason. The 80/20 rule is turned upside down.
I'm trying to say that I've gone through it when my husband! My husband has gone through it with me. In general - I've gone through it a lot more with him than he has with me. Yes - issues can take years to get through. Over 20 years ANYONE is going to have issues come up that affect intimacy. We're talking emotions, stresses - LIFE! Men have emotions too. The trick is being able to get through them together.
Hasn't everyone seen a man with a gorgeous wife (that doesn't withhold sex) have an extramarital affair with someone you can't believe he would with a woman like THAT at home?! Men have the same intimacy and emotional needs as women. They want to be appreciated and loved. They "cheat" mostly because of emotional reasons. When either party is not listening and giving what the other person needs they are going to look somewhere else if they haven't set the foundation of loving, open, honest communication with a willingness of both parties to adapt and compromise. Someone pressing too hard for sex and someone pulling away from sex are a way of communicating that something is going on inside. Both are a cry out to the other person.
I can understand your apparent anger Wodgina and how rejected you must feel. I've been there. The question is - do you play the blame game or do get to work?
I've found that it is very hard to change another person. The best way to change any relationship is with changing yourself because that's where you have control. Change one person in the relationship and the other person can't help but to change because it's a system. If one person is no longer participating in something, it can't continue in the same way. If the way you are being is continuing to give the same result for years that you are unhappy with, time to change something.
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GS, It sounds like you have been sadly disappointed in your marriage. It seems that you would rather be a faithful husband in a happy marriage if your wife were capable of receiving/returning your love for her.
Dorothy, in GS's case it might be that the fault does not lie with GS not understanding women. Maybe his wife has never been capable of receiving/returning true love because of her family background. It does not look like she married him for the right reason in the first place.
I agree with you totally here Joy. That's why I suggest to GS that instead of trying to make millions he tries new ways to see if he can please his wife because she might simply not have the capability of having a loving relationship with him. If this is the case, what good is killing himself to make more money to please her? If he can't please her no matter what he tries perhaps it's not that he needs a polyamorous relationship - just a better primary relationship. Those skills can then be taken to someone else that can appreciate them more.
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I'm trying to say that I've gone through it when my husband! My husband has gone through it with me. In general - I've gone through it a lot more with him than he has with me. Yes - issues can take years to get through. Over 20 years ANYONE is going to have issues come up that affect intimacy. We're talking emotions, stresses - LIFE! Men have emotions too. The trick is being able to get through them together.
Hasn't everyone seen a man with a gorgeous wife (that doesn't withhold sex) have an extramarital affair with someone you can't believe he would with a woman like THAT at home?! Men have the same intimacy and emotional needs as women. They want to be appreciated and loved. They "cheat" mostly because of emotional reasons. When either party is not listening and giving what the other person needs they are going to look somewhere else if they haven't set the foundation of loving, open, honest communication with a willingness of both parties to adapt and compromise. Someone pressing too hard for sex and someone pulling away from sex are a way of communicating that something is going on inside. Both are a cry out to the other person.
I can understand your apparent anger Wodgina and how rejected you must feel. I've been there. The question is - do you play the blame game or do get to work?
I've found that it is very hard to change another person. The best way to change any relationship is with changing yourself because that's where you have control. Change one person in the relationship and the other person can't help but to change because it's a system. If one person is no longer participating in something, it can't continue in the same way. If the way you are being is continuing to give the same result for years that you are unhappy with, time to change something.
Um I'm not angry? not sure what your talking about.
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Yes this sounds familiar - in my situation we are kind of swapped with our gender roles - my wife is getting out and trying earn the dollars, coming home late, working 7 days, only interested in talking about work, works on laptop in bed morning and night. I prefer to look after her and our kids - getting wife coffee in bed, dropping kids to school and back home, doing all the paperwork to keep up with my wife's investments, staying home in weekends to look after kids. We now have separate bedrooms, which is great so she can wake up at 3am and do some work on the laptop, and I can control my sleep environment. I am feeling more comfortable with my life now as I have a break from the incessant chit chat about work I get from my wife. I am now thinking of our arrangement for how good it is for all of us in my family to pursue our independent lives while enjoying the comfort and stability of a shared home.
Stress. That sounds so stressful for both your wife and you. I'm sorry to hear that for you Alive. It's less stressful not to have to deal with your wive's stress in the middle of the night - but both of you sound like you need some time where the two of you get to be tender, quiet, relaxed together.
I've been in that constant massive adrenal overdrive that you can't stop like your wife is in now. It's a horror. It's a trap. Not being able to sleep because your running your adrenals into the ground with stress and coffee.
I'm glad that one of you is willing to be at home and give the kids some calmer energy. For some couples these days both couples are acting that scenario out together. Sometimes the wife is going through that and doesn't have the energy for sex because it doesn't help where the man want's to use sex as an outlet for his stressed out energy. That still might be the pattern with your wife. Women with draining adrenals aren't going to get helped from sex. If anything, it stops that hysteria that they are trying so desperately to keep up in the world and fight in a man's world.
If it makes any difference to you Alive, I bet that she really wants to slow down but she knows the moment she does she might collapse and be worthless. She's in her flight or fight reactions. So hard.
I feel for you.
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Um I'm not angry.
I'm sorry - you did say rejected - not angry. A lot of people that feel rejected also feel angry. I was angry as well as rejected... and sad too... so that was projection. My bad.
What do YOU feel?
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I'm sorry - you did say rejected - not angry. A lot of people that feel rejected also feel angry. I was angry as well as rejected... and sad too... so that was projection. My bad.
What do YOU feel?
Like I'm on Oprah
but I think your read my post wrong or it was written poorly
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Well - it's better than being on Jerry Springfield with a bunch of guys hating on women in general because they feel ______ fill in the blank about their own experiences with their particular woman(en). At least I personally prefer Oprah to Jerry. ;)
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How do you like my new avatar? I just got my hair done. It's in honor of you Wodgina! ;D
Just call me The Raw Opraleo Woman!
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Did you want to make a comment Tyler or just quote me?
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Err, I decided to keep quiet after all, since everyone has the right to use whatever avatar they like -[ , unless it's a porn-photo or similiar, and, sadly, the above one doesn't qualify, though it makes me want to heave. I'll delete the above post.
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I thought it was funny for the moment. I'm not planning on keeping it. If it would make you happy for me to take it down now I would gladly do that for you. I was making fun of myself.
It didn't give you even the slightest chuckle?
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When somebody wont have sex with me, it is obviously a problem with THEM! l)
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I thought it was funny for the moment. I'm not planning on keeping it. If it would make you happy for me to take it down now I would gladly do that for you. I was making fun of myself.
It didn't give you even the slightest chuckle?
I did laugh!
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I blame much of peoples troubles of developing healthy relationships on the idiotic culture propagated by the daytime TV drama, as well as other cultural messages that permeate society and seem to demand that people behave according to a phantasmal ideal of what sexual relationships should be.
I grew up being exposed to Jerry Springer, and Maury, as well as the soap operas that my Aunt watched as she baby sat me. The whole premise of these shows is so pretentiously centered around the Idea that for a relationship to be normal there has to be complete fidelity.
Even the higher class, more cultured programs like Oprah seem to project some of the same idiocy, only it is presented with a little more prudish sophistication.
The other institutions such as the culture that makes up schools and churches also instill and facilitate many of false and pretentious ideas people are shackled by.
My Son is only five years old and just from being around a few other kids has learned that pink is a girls color, and he thinks its some how shameful that I will sometimes paint my toe nails pink. He is at an impressionable age and its amazing what they can pick up from the limited information they receive.
He asked his Mom why she was putting on makeup the other night, and she was explaining to him that she was going to go visit her other boyfriend. Later that night after story time, he turned to me and asked " what is love" I told him some sappy line about how ' love is our gift to the world then he said out of the blue " well, I love two girls". Its seems that even though we are very careful about not being to explicit while talking in front of the children, that our son has still been able to pick up enough information, to begin to start thinking about these things. The next day he asked his mother "what is love" and she told him it was a feeling that people have for each other.
We are trying to educate our children better and stand up to all the BS propagated by the culture, so they wont have to grow up with all the hang ups that are forced upon many people of this day and age.
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I learned much more about the nature of relationships by watching Meerkat manor than I ever did watching the human dramas on TV. The Meerkat society is free of the idiotic cultural influences of modern human society and so they interact in accordance with their primal nature.
Check it out its really good entertainment.
Meerkat Manor - S1-E1 - Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-W0gwCiLas#)
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It didn't give you even the slightest chuckle?
Hardly. Now take DJR-81's previous avatar of Sean Connery in a red bikini from the film Zardoz, that made me chuckle every time. It's just that I hate decadent, modern pop-culture as it caters to the lowest common denominator. Well, it could have been worse, it could have been a photo of Kim Kardashian or Jordan/Katie Price or one of the former Spice Girls or Paris Hilton etc.
Anyway, ignore my take on this. I'll just concentrate on the words, instead.
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GS, It sounds like you have been sadly disappointed in your marriage. It seems that you would rather be a faithful husband in a happy marriage if your wife were capable of receiving/returning your love for her.
Dorothy, in GS's case it might be that the fault does not lie with GS not understanding women. Maybe his wife has never been capable of receiving/returning true love because of her family background. It does not look like she married him for the right reason in the first place.
I agree with you totally here Joy. That's why I suggest to GS that instead of trying to make millions he tries new ways to see if he can please his wife because she might simply not have the capability of having a loving relationship with him. If this is the case, what good is killing himself to make more money to please her? If he can't please her no matter what he tries perhaps it's not that he needs a polyamorous relationship - just a better primary relationship. Those skills can then be taken to someone else that can appreciate them more.
Not disappointed with my marriage.
My wife is the sexiest and youthful thing I see every day.
And she plays the harp every day.
And she earns her own big enough money as a corporate executive.
And I've got great in-laws.
As for my children... I'm quite satisfied with meeting my personal quota.
And with my healing abilities and raw paleo diet knowledge from you guys... no fear in parenting.
My parents had their own big shortcoming (not my fault), but it truly disappointed my wife's clan.
The medical system betrayed us with 3 c-sections, drugging my wife on the 1st baby for heart problems.
And offered me no hope when I was sick and almost killed our son when he was sick, almost killed my brother.
So we've been through a lot... I didn't expect many of these ups and downs and curves in life and the reality of human sexuality... in fact I first read the book "Sperm Wars" and "Etiquettes for Mistresses" from my mother in law where those books helped her accept the reality that her husband had his own bastard while still remaining the good man that he is. It's just the way things are.
Real female sexuality I saw first hand with my wife, my sister, my sister in law, my close lady friends, my own grandmother, my employees... and many other women. The reality is that women play an active role in getting the best sperm / genes for their offspring, plus getting men to do things for them... it's just the way things are.
I was raised / sheltered in the idealism my mother dreamt of and which my father's side had actually done... they were the good boys and girls.
My pro-life volunteerism made me realize the grave danger to our own personal survival / family tree survival with the mostly complete contraceptive mentality propagated to most human beings. That the medical system of birthing itself was not on our side.
These truth realizations had made me proactive in changing course for the continuation of my bloodline.
Getting into pro-life, real healing, being able to cure the incurables and learning raw paleo diet made me much much more awake than I had dreamed of. And this is not disappointing at all.
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Hardly. Now take DJR-81's previous avatar of Sean Connery in a red bikini from the film Zardoz, that made me chuckle every time. It's just that I hate decadent, modern pop-culture as it caters to the lowest common denominator. Well, it could have been worse, it could have been a photo of Kim Kardashian or Jordan/Katie Price or one of the former Spice Girls or Paris Hilton etc.
Anyway, ignore my take on this. I'll just concentrate on the words, instead.
that was someone else whose name is escaping me at the moment... he lives/lived in austin, tx... yon something?.... went to visit gs...
context td ;D the inside joke wasn't meant for me either, but still worth a chuckle
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Yon Yonson. Really, he went to visit GS? cool, he's a good guy.
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here it is... and if anyone would like to see sean connery in red, that's in here too :)
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/personals/yon-and-gs-meet-up-you-should-too!/ (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/personals/yon-and-gs-meet-up-you-should-too!/)
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Yes, it was yon yonson, my mistake.
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Human beings are the intersection between spirit and matter. Yes, treat your body as though it were the result of millions of years of physical evolution. But treat your spirit as though it is eternal and One with all beings.
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I learned much more about the nature of relationships by watching Meerkat manor than I ever did watching the human dramas on TV. The Meerkat society is free of the idiotic cultural influences of modern human society and so they interact in accordance with their primal nature.
Check it out its really good entertainment.
Meerkat Manor - S1-E1 - Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-W0gwCiLas#)
Sabertooth - what did you learn about sexuality and sexual roles from these cute little creatures exactly? I watched it, but all I could figure out that it might be was to make sure if you're the alpha male to preen your alpha female a lot or you won't get any. As for everyone else - forget about having sex. ;)
The difference between you Sabertooth and most of the men so far is that it was your woman who initiated the whole thing! She talks to you about it and you're doing it together as a couple. The two of you also seem from what you say to have a pretty good sex life to begin with. You're not leaving someone at home who probably would rather have something entirely different for herself than what she is left with. The TWO of you are trying out a new lifestyle together.
I hope it works for both of you. You are so very spot on that these things are ingrained from very early on. That's often the problem with trying new lifestyles as a pioneer. You have to constantly be fighting your own programming. Also, the culture you live in does not support you and can create problems. From earlier generations, hippies didn't have a general mature culture to help that to survive and "swingers" often just ending up with a different mate as a product of their experiments. It takes a great deal of energy to have more than one primary mate and/or family and jealousy is taught to us subliminally from very early ages. It sounds to me like you and your wife are working with the hand you were dealt to the best of your abilities and using it to explore your conditioning and try out new ways of living.
In the past it was often part of sexist culture that considered women as property to have one brood woman at home and keep another mistress separately. Both were ways of controlling and owning the woman with very little autonomy or say on behalf of the woman of what SHE wanted. The women at home knew their men were not available to them completely emotionally or sexually but they had no way to leave as they couldn't make their own livings and there was no way of living that was any better to be found in those societies. "Marriage" was originally the selling of a woman from the father to another man - a social and financial transaction. It was accepted that the man got to do whatever he wanted -- but not the wife. Totally double standard. Lots of hiding, lying and silent suffering. Women learned to just suck it up and live with it. What you are doing seems nothing like this.
My suggestion (if you are not already doing and planning it) would be that your wife and you have frequent open and honest discussions where you talk about how it's all going and any old programming that might be coming up. It's this kind of intimacy that to me would be what would be most likely to carry you through in the face of potential judgment from others and your own programming. Real emotional intimacy is more important than sexual intimacy anyway, because sex and sexual desire comes and goes and changes but a history of communication and emotional intimacy can be a lifetime foundation.
Again - best of luck to you and your wife!
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Hey Tyler - I was thinking that since I tortured you so with Oprah for the last few days that I'd let you pick my next celebrity! It also won't be permanent - just for some fun. You do know what that is right? ;) This is your big opportunity to prove to me that you have a sense of humor. Snark.
So, who's it going to be Tyler?
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http://www.horror-shop.com/out/pictures/generated/product/1/350_600_75/2616_13103_medusa_lisa_halloween_dekoration_fasching_ausstattung_theaterbedarf_buehnenbau_totenschaedel_girlanden_horror_gr.jpg (http://www.horror-shop.com/out/pictures/generated/product/1/350_600_75/2616_13103_medusa_lisa_halloween_dekoration_fasching_ausstattung_theaterbedarf_buehnenbau_totenschaedel_girlanden_horror_gr.jpg)
http://www.pameladellicolli.com/store/images/uploads/pdc_medusa_comp.jpg (http://www.pameladellicolli.com/store/images/uploads/pdc_medusa_comp.jpg)
Incidentally, the Medusa is seen as a symbol of feminism, so I don't think you'll be too bothered re the above. Point is, the 2 photos are horrifying but still tasteful
despite that.
(I'm currently having computer trouble where I consider myself lucky if I can access my computer for half an hour after trying to turn it on unsuccessfully c. a dozen times over a few hours.
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http://www.horror-shop.com/out/pictures/generated/product/1/350_600_75/2616_13103_medusa_lisa_halloween_dekoration_fasching_ausstattung_theaterbedarf_buehnenbau_totenschaedel_girlanden_horror_gr.jpg (http://www.horror-shop.com/out/pictures/generated/product/1/350_600_75/2616_13103_medusa_lisa_halloween_dekoration_fasching_ausstattung_theaterbedarf_buehnenbau_totenschaedel_girlanden_horror_gr.jpg)
http://www.pameladellicolli.com/store/images/uploads/pdc_medusa_comp.jpg (http://www.pameladellicolli.com/store/images/uploads/pdc_medusa_comp.jpg)
Incidentally, the Medusa is seen as a symbol of feminism, so I don't think you'll be too bothered re the above. Point is, the 2 photos are horrifying but still tasteful
despite that.
(I'm currently having computer trouble where I consider myself lucky if I can access my computer for half an hour after trying to turn it on unsuccessfully c. a dozen times over a few hours.
I'm glad your computer is at least working enough to play along Tyler. Hope you out of computer hell soon.
The first image was funny! (imho)
So everyone - what do you think of my even newer hairstyle? A bit retro no?
Btw, I think of myself more of a humanist than a feminist.
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The first image was funny! (imho)
So everyone - what do you think of my even newer hairstyle? A bit retro no?
The glowing eyes are a bit scary.
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Dorothy, I like the Oprah photo. What is wrong with it? I guess I missed the humor point?
The present photo is a horror. I do not want to look at it.
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Dororthy, I love it. I think it is funny and cool, and not scary at all. I'm a big fan of Medusa, and the mona Lisa's OK. I wish your husband would take a nice sun shine on your smile pic of you, and when I get to Texas I want him to take a picture of me too. I hate taking pictures of me. I do them all wrong.
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I think I like this idea of putting up pictures the way others here see me. First Wodg implied that I was contributing to the conversation in the likes of Oprah - hence the Oprah pictures looking like she was about to pound into a cocky diatribe - and I loved her hair! But Tyler didn't get the joke and hated it so I asked him pick the next one. I thought it was very funny! Especially the idea of Mona Lisa as Medusa. Actually - it's not a bad depiction of a side of me. Which totally redeemed Tyler in my eyes as a man of wit and sarcasm - two very admirable traits in my book.
Joy - since this picture is not to your liking (it is horrific - if one isn't laughing) maybe I should ask you to pick my next "celebrity" if you care to. Please make it fun! If it is depicts some aspect of this strange conversation we've all been having here like the last two - it would be a bonus. Are you up for it?
If Joy's not up for it maybe Cherimoya can be the runner up as it doesn't sound like he wants to have to look at it for long either.
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Dororthy, I love it. I think it is funny and cool, and not scary at all. I'm a big fan of Medusa, and the mona Lisa's OK. I wish your husband would take a nice sun shine on your smile pic of you, and when I get to Texas I want him to take a picture of me too. I hate taking pictures of me. I do them all wrong.
Adora, I think we're a lot alike! I like the Mona Lisa and love mythology - and putting them together I think was genius on the part of Tyler.
My husband - it's like the cobblers children having no shoes. We have NO pictures of ourselves! I bought him a little point and shoot so I might be able to get a few pictures. We got a wide-angle for selling the house - so we have some great pictures of our backyard and chickens now! We went on vacations where he took pictures of everything except me - you know - art pictures. I was the spec with the backpack at the Grand Canyon. Then I insisted he actually take some shots of me in Mexico - but - then he takes them on slides for the better quality so I saw them once.
If you come and visit that way we BOTH might get some shots. So, when is your next trip to Austin? That way I'll know how long I have to lose the extra poundage and get into shape. ;) I'm still trying to get those "before" shots done before I become the "after". hee hee.
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Dororthy, I would love to go to Austin. I don't like any part of Texas I've seen, but Ausitin is supposed to be beautiful and artsy. It will be at lest one year, hopefully, we will booth look spectacular. It's nice to be captured on film that way. Then, we can put all of the pics on the site and give a "tour" of our time together. 8)
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Dororthy, I would love to go to Austin. I don't like any part of Texas I've seen, but Ausitin is supposed to be beautiful and artsy. It will be at lest one year, hopefully, we will booth look spectacular. It's nice to be captured on film that way. Then, we can put all of the pics on the site and give a "tour" of our time together. 8)
We'll see how much I'm willing to put on the internet when the time comes. I'm pretty shy/private when it comes to pictures on the net. But, we will definitely have fun taking them!
Btw - Wodg made some outrageous statements on another thread so now my picture is of Muriel Siebert.
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Sabertooth - what did you learn about sexuality and sexual roles from these cute little creatures exactly? I watched it, but all I could figure out that it might be was to make sure if you're the alpha male to preen your alpha female a lot or you won't get any. As for everyone else - forget about having sex. ;)
I know Meerkat society is not an exact microcosm of primitive human society but there are enough similarities to make a correlation. What I do claim is that there is much more we can learn about proper sexual roles from The whiskers than we can from most other human players on TV show drama. Human Dramas are so scripted and untrue to life. The sitcoms, soap operas, Springer, reality shows, etc give such a distorted view of sexuality.
That was just the first episode, if you watch the series you can see the whole dynamic of their interpersonal relationships unfold. They love each other and care for each other in a way that is almost human .
Zaphod may be in love with flower and he is the very protective dominate male of the clan, but even he will pair off with an other beta male and go off on shameless sexpeditions into forbidden territory. He has an Ex named Lola that he runs off to see on occasion.
Flowers daughters will also sneak off and find a lover if they have an opportunity. They find a love nest away from the group and they even cuddle after sex.
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Ah - it's a whiskers soap opera of sorts! ;) Sometimes I think animals can be more human and humane that most humans! Totally get it now that you explained the longer "drama" aspects. I understand what you are saying about the purity of actions and emotions too.
I've always loved meerkats and prairie dogs so anyone that wants to be like one is a-ok in my book. ;D
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All I see is the selfish gene and sperm wars in these animals.
Sex being sex needs variety to harden the species and spread farther.
Inbreeding makes for weak children. There is vigor in cross breeding. Cockfighters know this.
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In the chicken species there is a desire for there to be only one cock per group of hens that's why cocks can be pushed to kill each other off in an arena. Cock "breeders" are like dog breeders - making something unnatural. In chickens the only way that more than one rooster gets to live in the group is if all the roosters understand that one is dominant and that is the one that gets all the females he wants. The others don't get any or just can sneak some or get the main rooster's leftovers if the main rooster lets him. Cock fighting is barbaric and cruel because in nature roosters will work it out with each other without having to really hurt each other. In our sick societies humans seem to like watching cruelty. I don't think that's natural either. If you take a fighting dog or a rooster and train it back to psychological normalcy for the species it goes right back to acting like a good citizen for that species.
Humans are not chickens or meerkats - but if you want to go about picking an animal to try to live like the meerkat at least shows a little bit of emotional attachment from what Sabertooth said - whereas the chickens not at all sexually. The rooster sexually can destroy his favorite female and most hens will try to run from the rooster. He's only good for fighting off predators (watch dog) and helping to show you where food is in the view of the hen - the sex is something they have to do when he's around but get bitten and scratched up and lose their feathers and get worn out in the process. Chickens get the sperm primarily from the one strongest rooster when living naturally as do the meerkats.
Are you trying to advocate someone choosing who can mate with whom GS - like a government - because that's basically what cock breeders do to create the most unnaturally aggressive roosters they can. Or... are you saying that you would like to put all the men into an arena to fight to see which one male gets to mate? That would be more natural I guess - but pretty barbaric. I know paleo is supposed to be about going back to earlier times to figure out healthy ways to live and eat and all, but if that's part of it - count me out. Gladiator movies are not my cup of tea.
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What I am trying to point out, is that the lower primal drives in the more socially evolved creatures, have taken on a higher function that goes way beyond the mere instinct to breed. These behavioral adaptions that involve structuring a sexual hierarchy and taking on societal roles are at the foundation of the evolution of a species that has advanced beyond the limited brutality of the Cock.
In establishing a society, the more highly socially evolved species are able to lift each other up and provide companionship, friendship, protection and the creature comforts {that stem from}, but go beyond the base instincts to procreate. This adds such a greater dynamic to the whole scope of life and was totally paramount to the evolution of our own human society. Without the ability to form deeper more meaningful relationships, with those we live and breed with, we would be not much more socially evolved than fighting cocks.
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I appreciate what you are saying here Sabertooth. For me monogamy has been the ultimate expression of it. I understand that it might not be what works for everyone -- still, the extreme intimacy, deep loyalty, commitment and intense energy that I've had with monogamy I can't imagine getting any other way. I have no desire to be with anyone else or to water down the relationship by diverting that one strong river. Friendship is another order and for that there are needs and desires that shift and change and casual sexual relationships I think would fit into that category - but when monogamy really works it's a treasure that I feel the need to guard and defend. General relationships provide companionship, friendship, protection and creature comforts too - but monogamy goes to another level that uses our big brains and social evolvement to create a relationship like no other that opens up channels and learning of oneself beyond more casual or temporary relationships in my experience. Of course, everyone is different and I think few have seen a monogamous relationship really work so might not have experience with them - but they are possible. Hitting it right with a monogamous relationship is a little like finding your calling in life. You know if it's right or not. The problem is that so many people have such bad marriages and our societies make good marriages so hard that it seems like fully committed monogamous relationships aren't possible - like we weren't "meant" to be in them. All I can say is that I know that I was definitely meant to be in one and wouldn't trade it for anything.
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I appreciate what you are saying here Sabertooth. For me monogamy has been the ultimate expression of it. I understand that it might not be what works for everyone -- still, the extreme intimacy, deep loyalty, commitment and intense energy that I've had with monogamy I can't imagine getting any other way. I have no desire to be with anyone else or to water down the relationship by diverting that one strong river. .
I have not yet found the type of love outside my relationship with the mother of my children, that would make polyamory a better alternative to monogamy personally. The trouble is, I don't think I have ever been with a monogamous woman, so may never know if monogamy is the right path for me to take. My lady was always attracted to other men and I would catch her writing love letters to my friends, relatives, strangers , etc; so I thought nothing of Being naturally attracted to other women as well. I had always entertained the Idea of perhaps finding a lover on the side, and have always wanted to be loved by an other woman physically and emotionally: though was never wholly into the Idea of being openly polyamorous . To me it always seemed more socially acceptable to be a hypocrite who claimed to be monogamous while having secrete affairs, than to be openly polyamorous and having to deal with being judged as a philanderer. My mother and father both pretended to be in monogamous relationships for years while having lovers on the side, this as well as the common occurring of divorce seemed to be the norm for many people I knew while growing up.
In truth it wasn't my decision to be in an open relationship, my other half was the one who decided she wanted another Man. Deep down I think she is looking to find something she can never fully attain, but such is her nature, love is an elusive creature . I am just going along with her in this journey, because I want her to feel loved and to be free to peruse what she thinks will make her happy.
Having made the commitment to become uncommitted, I refuse to live the type of life of sordid secrecy that my parents lived, which caused me to be so confused and jaded about things as an adolescent. So if we are going to be a poly couple then I want to discover ways to make it work that will lead us both to happiness. God help us through the valley of sin without completely warping our children in the process.
Its all new territory and all these musings are just a way to cope with the uncertainty while being optimistic.
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Your children will be fine, as long as you are doing this for good reasons and are all happy and having fun most of the time.
My wife suggested I have a secret affair rather than bother her!
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Sabertooth - you are travelling an ethical path that will not necessarily be easier - but if there is one thing I am certain of, it is that you are teaching your children how to be strong in the face of a hypocritical society and gain more congruity for themselves. They will see you and their mother doing your best to be honest and find the best loving relationships possible. You are taking a difficult situation with your wife and making it into the best outcome you can. You are bringing things out of the darkness into the light. This is never bad for children. It's usually the dark hidden things that do the most real damage.
I think the hypocrisy, lying, cheating and sorrows that get shoved down below the surface are a big part of why so many people turn out so unhappy in this world. Those are the things that make the most scars. Those are the kinds of things that you and you are trying to work through/heal so you won't pass them on to your kids.
Your children will most likely become honest mavericks that do great things instead of mediocre automatons if they catch onto even a little of your sincerity and smarts.
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My wife suggested I have a secret affair rather than bother her!
Jeesh! Does this mean that she is already cheating on you and not wanting to be bothered about that either? Did that hurt when she said that? If even a friend said something like that I'd be hurt. That's like saying not only do I not give a shit about you as a sexual partner - but even as a person - as I don't want to know about you or what you do!
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Your children will be fine, as long as you are doing this for good reasons and are all happy and having fun most of the time.
My wife suggested I have a secret affair rather than bother her!
More likely because her sexuality has been deactivated rather than she has her own lover. Sometimes it just takes time and another woman meeting your sexual needs for a woman to be reactivated sexually.
Go for it.
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Sabertooth,
I've read cuckold stories and cuckold forums. It turns me on but i'd rather be the cuckolder than the cuckoldee.
Just wishing your wife get a "bull" who has tons more money than you do so he eventually helps out financially when his child arrives.
That extra money could come in handy and you wont feel so bad raising some other man's child.
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More likely because her sexuality has been deactivated rather than she has her own lover. Sometimes it just takes time and another woman meeting your sexual needs for a woman to be reactivated sexually.
Go for it.
When Alive said that his wife spends lots of nights late at the office the first thing that goes through any woman's mind if that thing is said about a man is - yeah - right "working" late. Maybe being forced to lie and have an affair will "reactivate" the relationship and maybe it won't - but I wouldn't want it. I'd just leave and find someone who didn't need me to "activate" them by cheating on them. It's all so manipulative. I wouldn't want a person who didn't want me without others wanting me. Eventually no one will want either my husband except each other because we have loved each other so long and dearly.
But I'd agree with you GS - if he wants to stay in the relationship like a woman would with a spouse that doesn't want to have sex and doesn't seem to care much what he does as long as he is taking care of the kids in order to be able to spend time with his kids, keep his house, his lifestyle and the wife doesn't care what he does and is still willing to support him - why not go for it? Doesn't sound like he has much to lose - except the financial aspect.
I personally would want more. I'd either insist that my partner let me please them or try to find a better match for myself. A loveless marriage is a drain. Why do you stay with a sexy woman that won't have sex with you GS? I still don't understand you. And don't tell me it's because she plays the harp because that one I don't believe - unless she's really that good at it that you can't leave her music? You seem to make enough money on your own not to have to live in a loveless marriage.
I don't understand what's holding all you men to continue to live with women that don't want to love you? Money, so that you can see your kids everyday? Or is it that you love your wives even if they don't love you back? Why polyamory when it doesn't sound like a lot of you have even uniamory (yes, I made that word up).
No wonder y'all want polyamory - you want love!
People need love.
Just be honest about it. It's not a belief system that polyamory is better than monogamy - just that monogamy has failed with the particular woman you chose. It's the next best thing.
As long as everyone is in agreement that their primary relationship isn't working then there are only a few choices I guess: 1. romance your woman until she lets you give her pleasure, 2. stick it out in joylessness and frustration, 3. get divorced and try again with someone else, 4. invite others into your life being open and honest or 5. live the lies and separation that having affairs makes.
We're not talking about polyamorous vs monogamy as seen when going into relationships in general and starting out - but in reaction to monogamous relationships that a group of men wanted to make work but that didn't. It's a different perspective.
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Your children will most likely become honest mavericks that do great things instead of mediocre automatons if they catch onto even a little of your sincerity and smarts.
That is at the heart of what I am tring to accomplish. To break the cycle trans generational deception so that our children can move forward into this new age without much of the baggage that the current generation is burdened with. I will always remember being lied to and deceived constantly as a child growing up. Being sheltered from the truth by the lies that the people around me lived. It all seems such a pity.
Sabertooth,
Just wishing your wife get a "bull" who has tons more money than you do so he eventually helps out financially when his child arrives.
That extra money could come in handy and you wont feel so bad raising some other man's child.
You have just told of my Wife's total fantasy. She is dreaming that this guy will get a good engineering job out of state and be able to help us move to where he lives and he will help us get established in a nice home.{if only she can trick him into knocking her up}. Its unlikely to turn out so well, but his family is loaded so its hard to say if there will be any economic benefit to this risky business.
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We're not talking about polyamorous vs monogamy as seen when going into relationships in general and starting out - but in reaction to monogamous relationships that a group of men wanted to make work but that didn't. It's a different perspective.
It more of a cultural condition that makes one attempt monogamy as the first choice and not something our inherent nature demands of us . All the fairy tails, and stories of romance, the culture of marriage, puritanical heritage, and they lived happily ever after Walt Disney movies, is just so pervasive that many people who get together are just not aware of how to make polyamory a viable alternative in such a society.
Do young people today have any decent and upstanding poly role models?
There is a lot of celebrity sleaze and gossip about the spoiled class and their numerous affairs. But where are heroes of today, who work hard and support themselves as well as making time to honorably and passionately love more than one person. Most stories that involve that kind of love are considered indecent and so are relegated to pornography or cheap romance novels. We have people like Charley Sheen who play the shameless womanizer and booze hound and give the polyamorous lifestyle a really piggish image.
I guess in the comic books there are some good examples. Heroes like batman have more than one crush, Batman is obviously has the hots for cat woman, and to a lesser extent poison ivy. Spiderman has Mary Jane and Felicia, he is constantly looking to date either one of them. These are the heroes my son Idealizes and he is very aware of the affectionate nature between his heroes and the ladies. But Cartoons are not really the best example for the younger generation, so I will ask the forum.
Who today is a good example of a poly man or woman? Someone who is decent and loving and would be a good role model for the children to look up to.
Anyone know of historical figures that could give polyamory a more positive image?
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Examples:
http://www.pro-polygamy.com/ (http://www.pro-polygamy.com/)
http://tlc.howstuffworks.com/tv/sister-wives (http://tlc.howstuffworks.com/tv/sister-wives)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramon_Revilla,_Sr. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramon_Revilla,_Sr.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Estrada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Estrada)
http://www.islamawareness.net/Polygamy/fatwa004.html (http://www.islamawareness.net/Polygamy/fatwa004.html)
http://www.pronatal.org/2007/03/19/polygamous-akbar-family-husband-and-all-wives-to-dominate-elections-in-basilan/ (http://www.pronatal.org/2007/03/19/polygamous-akbar-family-husband-and-all-wives-to-dominate-elections-in-basilan/)
http://www.pronatal.org/2007/11/15/representative-akbar-killed-in-congress-bombing/ (http://www.pronatal.org/2007/11/15/representative-akbar-killed-in-congress-bombing/)
http://youtu.be/d4yjrDSvze0 (http://youtu.be/d4yjrDSvze0) (Polyandry care of National Geographic) recommended for those fans of depopulation.
http://msmistress.wordpress.com/2007/04/28/etiquette-for-mistresses/ (http://msmistress.wordpress.com/2007/04/28/etiquette-for-mistresses/)
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But I'd agree with you GS - if he wants to stay in the relationship like a woman would with a spouse that doesn't want to have sex and doesn't seem to care much what he does as long as he is taking care of the kids in order to be able to spend time with his kids, keep his house, his lifestyle and the wife doesn't care what he does and is still willing to support him - why not go for it? Doesn't sound like he has much to lose - except the financial aspect.
I personally would want more. I'd either insist that my partner let me please them or try to find a better match for myself. A loveless marriage is a drain. Why do you stay with a sexy woman that won't have sex with you GS? I still don't understand you. And don't tell me it's because she plays the harp because that one I don't believe - unless she's really that good at it that you can't leave her music? You seem to make enough money on your own not to have to live in a loveless marriage.
Let me help you understand our cultural differences.
- sexless does not mean love less
- marriage means more than just sex. There's children, there's in laws, there's family and extended family.
- if she became fat and ugly and unattractive I would still love my wife because I made a commitment to her and my children... and the children need us as parents and grandparents and great grand parents.
- of course if my wife was fat and ugly and unattractive, she wouldn't be such a tease and cause me blue balls every day...
- my philosophy in life is the purpose of life is to make more life, I believe the tradition of a rock solid family and extended family is a good recipe for reproductive success... with bastards on the side... are bonuses and insurances in this game of life. ( as stated in the book Sperm Wars )
- culturally in our culture, mistressing is too common and expected... what is frowned upon are divorces and abandonment, especially those who abandon just because the wife is no longer sexual... that is really really mean and nasty. Abandoning wife and children may mean starvation and death.
Because there is no government big brother mandating and insuring survival in our country. There is no government apparatus to enforce child support or give EBT cards to mothers or unemployed in need. We have to stick together to survive... the old fashioned way... United we stand... divided we fall.
In the big cities there are just too many women because of migration for jobs. The women have learned to share in good men. Where a good man at least has a job and some money.... or he has good genes. Many men are jobless drunkards womanizers. So get a man who has a job, is not a drunkard, will give child support. Or hear your biological clock tick away and be childless... a fate many women refuse to accept.
There are 2 types of reproductive women... the #1 wife type... and the mistress types. The mistress types know their place and are immensely attracted to married, committed men, and know their place and follow the ettiquetes for mistresses book.
Culturally, our Muslim brothers and sisters in our own country and cities are enshrined in law that they can have up to 4 wives and can marry legally beginning 16 years old. And we can see so much harmony and strength in their families. They have to be strong because they themselves have to endure tribal / family wars... woe to those with weak families.
Culturally, we love children and family... many here are not in the "me" only divorce culture.
So you find out your man has a mistress? Welcome to the club where literally all worthy good men have one.
Some men also get by with just prostitution when their wives cannot deliver. Some #1 wives prefer this.
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As GS says there are so many more important aspects to marriage than just sex, and I realise I have not been the easiest person in the world to live with either. A split personality of raw food nazi and compulsive junk food eater I was often tired and grumpy. Now I am RAVF things are improving and we are becoming friends again l)
Any chance of this giving a result?:
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Let me help you understand our cultural differences.
- sexless does not mean love less
- marriage means more than just sex. There's children, there's in laws, there's family and extended family.
- if she became fat and ugly and unattractive I would still love my wife because I made a commitment to her and my children... and the children need us as parents and grandparents and great grand parents.
- of course if my wife was fat and ugly and unattractive, she wouldn't be such a tease and cause me blue balls every day...
- my philosophy in life is the purpose of life is to make more life, I believe the tradition of a rock solid family and extended family is a good recipe for reproductive success... with bastards on the side... are bonuses and insurances in this game of life. ( as stated in the book Sperm Wars )
- culturally in our culture, mistressing is too common and expected... what is frowned upon are divorces and abandonment, especially those who abandon just because the wife is no longer sexual... that is really really mean and nasty. Abandoning wife and children may mean starvation and death.
Because there is no government big brother mandating and insuring survival in our country. There is no government apparatus to enforce child support or give EBT cards to mothers or unemployed in need. We have to stick together to survive... the old fashioned way... United we stand... divided we fall.
In the big cities there are just too many women because of migration for jobs. The women have learned to share in good men. Where a good man at least has a job and some money.... or he has good genes. Many men are jobless drunkards womanizers. So get a man who has a job, is not a drunkard, will give child support. Or hear your biological clock tick away and be childless... a fate many women refuse to accept.
There are 2 types of reproductive women... the #1 wife type... and the mistress types. The mistress types know their place and are immensely attracted to married, committed men, and know their place and follow the ettiquetes for mistresses book.
Culturally, our Muslim brothers and sisters in our own country and cities are enshrined in law that they can have up to 4 wives and can marry legally beginning 16 years old. And we can see so much harmony and strength in their families. They have to be strong because they themselves have to endure tribal / family wars... woe to those with weak families.
Culturally, we love children and family... many here are not in the "me" only divorce culture.
So you find out your man has a mistress? Welcome to the club where literally all worthy good men have one.
Some men also get by with just prostitution when their wives cannot deliver. Some #1 wives prefer this.
Wow so interesting.
We have more men than women.
Opposite dynamics.
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Thank you for explaining your culture GS. The US is relatively a new country (when not taking into consideration the native inhabitants) but most of the cultures from which we all came from here in the past were pretty much the same as yours unless they just abandoned the women.
The difference in this day and age is that women are able to take care of themselves and their children often on their own not having to live with a man that they no longer love or that can satisfy them sexually (or that they were never attracted to or loved - just chose because they have money). In your culture would it be ok with you and your extended family for your wife to go out and find herself another man? Would it be ok for her to get pregnant with another man? Would you still stand by her? In our culture there historically were outrageous double standards.
Of course there is more to love than sex - but you said yourself earlier that you thought that your wife never really loved you. If my husband never had sex with me again I would stay with him. Love is MUCH more than sex. But my husband and I would talk about it. I guess in your culture it's all set up where you don't have to talk about it. You are expected to go out and get mistresses. Often though, even if it is accepted, it doesn't mean that the woman is truly happy with the situation. You also probably in your culture are not taught how to really pleasure a woman - or there wouldn't be so many women that stop wanting to have sex with their husbands. In other cultures that I'm familiar with the women are considered to be the pleasure objects of the men and when a woman stops it's not up to the man to figure out how to make it better - they just leave for another woman. It does affect the children - especially the girl children dramatically. The girls expect that they will have little chance at real happiness - that's for the men.
It sounds like you married more than your wife - you married her family. That's actually a beautiful thing. In a sense in your culture in a way you learn how to divorce without divorcing. You still will take care of her and the children financially but go off with other women to meet your emotional and sexual needs. But where does that leave your wife? What will that do to your daughters if you have them?
It sounds like something was created that is better than abandonment - yes, but it sounds like a world of continuing hurt for so many women.
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As GS says there are so many more important aspects to marriage than just sex, and I realise I have not been the easiest person in the world to live with either. A split personality of raw food nazi and compulsive junk food eater I was often tired and grumpy. Now I am RAVF things are improving and we are becoming friends again l)
Any chance of this giving a result?:http://www.herbalignite.com/New+Zealand/Product+Info/Herbal+Ignite+for+Women.html (http://www.herbalignite.com/New+Zealand/Product+Info/Herbal+Ignite+for+Women.html)
That's beautiful Alive!
I think I've been on the male side of the equation emotionally enough to get it. I had to stop blaming my husband for what he was or wasn't doing and figure out what I could do differently. It took all I had to let go and look at it from his side, get over myself and take action. I could have left him or cheated on him - but that's not what I really wanted. It's tough taking responsibility, shrugging off hurts and deciding to try something new - anything that will work. We're talking about ego, sense of self, attractiveness and all sorts of ways in which we have been programmed. The man is supposed to (blank) in order for me to feel loved. I shouldn't have to tell him anything he should sweep me off my feet. I bet for men it's even harder in lots of ways. You are supposed to be strong and do the sweeping. That's a big load. I just decided that it was all bullshit and that I would learn to do whatever I had to whether I was taught to or not culturally. I decided to break out of all the roles and to break past the limitations that my mother and all the other women and cultural advertising taught me. I eat differently, I generally live differently - why stay in the same old box in this arena either!
Polyamorous and mistresses can be just as big of a cultural box with a lock on it as anything. To me it's about really breaking free with the mind. I'm not living the life my culture taught me that I am supposed to live. Brian is an individual and so am I. We're not roles. The label isn't what's important - it's the quality of living that the people are creating together.
I love the way you are thinking Alive. Looking for ways to make you and your wive's lives better. I love the way Sabertooth is thinking outside of his cultural box. You're being truly proactive. GS - I keep on feeling like you are living out your cultural programming and not talking to your wife or trying something new. You know, that's ok though. It's the path that you are choosing. It just makes me sad for your wife and any daughters you might have. I would love to hear the female take on your cultural system with real honesty from the women and girls that are experiencing it. I know lots of girls and women in our culture who had fathers who had mistresses and didn't value the daughters as much as the sons. It left some pretty nasty scars in them.
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I'm monogamous. We do exist. I haven't managed to stay with one man forever, but I'm only with one at a time. I just out grow them and go peaceful. It might be nice to find one that wanted to grow too. I look at other men, appreciatively. I have unrestrained fantasies about whomever, but I can only stand to be touched by one at a time. When I'm with a lover, I only can think of him. I have to be alone even to think of another. I physically resonate with one and can't just jump into a new resonation. I need time between them to unsync. If my lover wanted another woman, I would want to know all about her. I'd want to meet her. I'm not one bit gay, but in my imagination, maybe I could be part of something polyamorous that way, not likely, but I don't think a woman would electrically repulse me like another man would. Boy's that have "cheated" haven't been open, and loving/welcoming and it hurt and I felt rage. It was poison in my blood, but love wasn't there it was all ugly manipulation, not polyamory. She could have him, love dies from that.
Sabertooth- You're such a perfect balance of cool and hot. Maybe you should rethink this open thing. I mean you don't have to put up with anything for your kids. You should figure out how the movie would go if you were directing it. What do you want? Not what can you get. Not, I can't make enough money to please my lady so, she should be free to pursue that in another, that's guilt not love. Don't sell yourself short. If you are happy, then go for it, the kids will have happy adults around them. Are you compromising your hearts desire for love because you feel like you don't deserve more? If that were the case then pray tell, who deserves it. A richer man? A man with a better job? Deserve is an inner quality or it is just made up. I'm not sure. Figure out what you want and move toward it where you can.
What abut your woman? Does she want these men or does she want money/security and feel like she has to use her body to get it? No judgement intended anywhere here.
Take a day, be wide awake and get out someplace alone where you can think. Move your body a little for circulation and then lay down, close your eyes and let it all play out in your head. How would things be with your family if you could have them just how you wanted? Then, imagine you are not with this woman, can you imagine a woman you would want, perfect for you and babies, or on your own, whatever would be "best" for just you. Get it all clear, write down a few highlights so you can refer to it, and talk to your lady. Make an whole hearted attempt to have your relationship right for you.
Family life is complicated. Your kids are going to be all messed up just like us and everybody else. Forgive yourself. Just love them like you are and they will have that. To have a loving father is precious and powerful.
Sorry, to be in your business
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What you said Adora about only being able to resonate with one person at a time - that's totally me too. 22 years of resonating with just one and never wanting it to end. It's totally about being with someone that wants to change and grow just as much. I used to say when I first met Brian that why it worked was because what he wanted in a woman was what I wanted to be and what I wanted in a man was what he wanted to be and we were helping each other get there. Now we feel almost like war buddies, having been in the trenches so long together that there's a bond that no one else could ever touch. It is possible to find someone that is growing just as fast in your same direction. Just wanted to say that to you so as to give you a boost when you go out to that place outside and do your imaginings. ;)
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Thank you for explaining your culture GS. The US is relatively a new country (when not taking into consideration the native inhabitants) but most of the cultures from which we all came from here in the past were pretty much the same as yours unless they just abandoned the women.
The difference in this day and age is that women are able to take care of themselves and their children often on their own not having to live with a man that they no longer love or that can satisfy them sexually (or that they were never attracted to or loved - just chose because they have money). In your culture would it be ok with you and your extended family for your wife to go out and find herself another man? Would it be ok for her to get pregnant with another man? Would you still stand by her? In our culture there historically were outrageous double standards.
Of course there is more to love than sex - but you said yourself earlier that you thought that your wife never really loved you. If my husband never had sex with me again I would stay with him. Love is MUCH more than sex. But my husband and I would talk about it. I guess in your culture it's all set up where you don't have to talk about it. You are expected to go out and get mistresses. Often though, even if it is accepted, it doesn't mean that the woman is truly happy with the situation. You also probably in your culture are not taught how to really pleasure a woman - or there wouldn't be so many women that stop wanting to have sex with their husbands. In other cultures that I'm familiar with the women are considered to be the pleasure objects of the men and when a woman stops it's not up to the man to figure out how to make it better - they just leave for another woman. It does affect the children - especially the girl children dramatically. The girls expect that they will have little chance at real happiness - that's for the men.
It sounds like you married more than your wife - you married her family. That's actually a beautiful thing. In a sense in your culture in a way you learn how to divorce without divorcing. You still will take care of her and the children financially but go off with other women to meet your emotional and sexual needs. But where does that leave your wife? What will that do to your daughters if you have them?
It sounds like something was created that is better than abandonment - yes, but it sounds like a world of continuing hurt for so many women.
Hey Dorothy
Your last statement was full of craziness. I think you need to re-read GS's previous post again and not project.
Wodg
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Adora
Romantically, what I am after is a love that transcends the everyday trifles and dramas and goes way beyond the limitations of what two beings can communicate verbally. Its that elusive creature that can never be trapped. It can be seen it in the twinkle of the eye , but once you approach, it vanishes like a startled faun.
Realistically I am looking for a woman that can share more of my inner world with. My wife is heart and soul right for me as far as it comes to raising the children, but sadly she shares very little of my intellectual interest as well as my love of outdoorsy activities. She is often very dismissive of some of my most cherished and lofty Ideals and hobbies. Even though we have a good thing going, I often long for a companion that will be more nurturing of my egos desire for a cerebral femininity as well as someone to play adventurist games with. Someone who will encourage my development in other areas, and be more apt to humor my idiocentricities and odd sentimentality.
My wife and I share a primal bond , more of an animistic understanding that works well for maintaining a domestic partnership. In our situation it isn't possible to just out grow each other and move on to the next as it is for some. So we have built a relationship that at the core is dedicated keeping together no matter what.
She has a deep rooted desire to find happiness in the love, companionship and sexual attention of men. Its something that is in her nature and I don't ask her to change for me. We are just tring to find opportunities for her to express her nature in healthy ways. She isn't into money or using people or playing childish mind games. To her credit I admit she has matured and outgrown many the petty issues that we had foolishly struggled with early into our relationship. She only wants to have a deep meaningful, loving relationship. She wants me to tell everyone that she is in a committed relationship with two men, and doesn't need or want anything else to make her happy in the romance department.
As for me It seems an almost impossible task to find that ideal companion who will help me with four children, or accept my house wife, dire poverty, extreme opinions, and diet of rotten meat, for long enough to discover the beautiful soul that lies beneath. I also am easily discouraged and don't feel right pursuing women as a "married"man and don't have a clue about courting someone in an openly poly way. I think I could use some coaching in this department; having been a bit of a shy awkward nerd trapped in a construction workers body, there is still so much to learn in the ways of love.
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Hey Dorothy
Your last statement was full of craziness. I think you need to re-read GS's previous post again and not project.
Wodg
I read it. You will have to say more than what I said is full of craziness and projection. You will have to use more than one sentence for me to understand you. I understood GS's post in it's entirety. Perhaps you should re-read the entirety of what I wrote instead of just the last sentence.
Perhaps if you tried to discuss rather than just taunt and insult? Everyone else here is speaking from their hearts about their personal experiences and you seem to be just popping in for a sentence here and there to try to intimidate one person and cheer another - not adding much at all.
How about telling us what your situation is?
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Sabertooth's heart coaching
# 1 Don't give up. Stay true to your own heart's desire, you owe it to each other. Trust when you meet her, how proud you will be to have believed in each other
# 2 You only want 1 woman, and there are billions to choose from, she doesn't have to raise your children, you and mom are on that, only accept, and love - I believe it is possible, why do you doubt?
#3 You don't want to pursue - don't - just keep your heart open to the universe - that is the biggest part
#4 Cry, scream, and shout - It sucks that you have to wait, let the emotions that follow unfulfilled desire out
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I have a lot barriers up and have been single most of my life, I have worked hard to own my place, started my business to protect myself from the whims of other people...
I picked a girl who my mate took party a year ago. Nothing happened with them, we went out.
I don't know about having more than one partner, I woud be happy for me to have more than one partner not her.
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Thank you for explaining your culture GS. The US is relatively a new country (when not taking into consideration the native inhabitants) but most of the cultures from which we all came from here in the past were pretty much the same as yours unless they just abandoned the women.
The difference in this day and age is that women are able to take care of themselves and their children often on their own not having to live with a man that they no longer love or that can satisfy them sexually (or that they were never attracted to or loved - just chose because they have money).
Yes, men's utility in your country is not appreciated. This is why many American men go the the Philippines to partner up with women who will appreciate them.
In your culture would it be ok with you and your extended family for your wife to go out and find herself another man? Would it be ok for her to get pregnant with another man? Would you still stand by her? In our culture there historically were outrageous double standards.
Our culture is in FAMILY mode. Your culture is in INDIVIDUAL mode. As such when people get married, the family / extended family of the man expects all children from that woman to also be of their blood... part of their family. Blood is most important.
The reason for the double standard is families marrying families.
In our culture, grandma expects her grandchild from her son to be authentic, by blood. As does grandpa. As do aunties, as do uncles. As you can see in some of the Maury Show episodes, grandma and the clan are totally PISSED when the daughter in law cheats on their FAMILY by cuckolding their FAMILY representative.
In individualistic society... maybe relatives do not care.
This is a common friction when the American man finds out later on that his Filipina wife asks and gives financial assistance to her parents and siblings.
Of course there is more to love than sex - but you said yourself earlier that you thought that your wife never really loved you.
It's like American Archie Comics. I'm Archie and I really dig Veronica. Even if there are Bettys who are chasing me Archie. I squeezed 3 children out of veronica... with 2 boys at that... very good sacrifice.
If my husband never had sex with me again I would stay with him. Love is MUCH more than sex. But my husband and I would talk about it. I guess in your culture it's all set up where you don't have to talk about it.
We agree on zero contraception. This is why. And you must remember her medical background with 3 c-sections and 1 appendectomy. So I truly understand her predicament.
Most women can live without sex for the rest of their lives. Most men cannot unless they are sick.
Women here who are incapable of bearing any more children are known to order their husbands to get another woman pregnant specifically to snatch the baby for themselves. And this is why some women who are impregnated hide the baby from the married man because that plot is quite common.
My father in law was hidden by his mom from his biological dad who was married with children.
My grandmother's nanny ordered her husband to make them a baby to bring home to them because she was already 40 and they only have one child.
You are expected to go out and get mistresses.
Mistress I define as having at least a kid. Prostitutes and girlfriends... are also out there and lumped together.
City women expect prostitutes... and actually welcome them more than girlfriends or mistresses.
This is the reality of how monogamy works.
Don't get me wrong. I am a staunch pro-life activist and volunteered for years with www.prolife.org.ph (http://www.prolife.org.ph) and still volunteer.
Just being factual as an amateur social scientist stating how monogamy works for most people.
Women here just line up to be mistresses... must be biology that the American occupation and the Spanish occupation could never root out.
I observe that Filipino history should be seen more from the Point of View of Women.
I feel our islands were easily conquered because Filipinas welcomed the Spanish with open legs. My wife agrees.
There is interracial synergy and attraction. Filipinas just lined up to Spanish priests.
Often though, even if it is accepted, it doesn't mean that the woman is truly happy with the situation.
There is no such thing as everyone will be happy. That is fantasy.
In the meantime, men in sexless marriages need to f**k to maintain their sanity.
And this many Filipinas understand where I see American culture does not... unrealistic expectations.
You also probably in your culture are not taught how to really pleasure a woman - or there wouldn't be so many women that stop wanting to have sex with their husbands.
It's a case to case basis. The most pleasure a woman gets will usually be wealth first. Then other things. But as long as you bring in the bacon... you rock. This my own mother knows. This my mother in law knows. And this is why these mothers are very supportive of their sons.
In other cultures that I'm familiar with the women are considered to be the pleasure objects of the men and when a woman stops it's not up to the man to figure out how to make it better - they just leave for another woman.
Filipino women stature is among the highest in the entire world. Was even higher before the spanish came and instituted their laws in these islands. Laws haven't changed the power of women... as long as there is FAMILY... women are very very powerful. It is when there is no family backing the woman that it becomes a problem.
When women get ligated, they dry up and many have total loss of sex drive.
My driver and I have a standing joke about this because his wife got ligated on her 4th child. She lost her sex drive. At the same time 5 years ago my driver also lost his erections because of illness. He was lucky to have gotten me as a boss and I cured his erectile dysfunction by teaching him to eat raw red meat.
Now he's complaining about his wife's loss of sex drive. But I remind him that he too lost his erection until I rescued him. So he should stay put and commit to his family . He still gets his chicks every now and then as long as the girl is paying instead of him.
It does affect the children - especially the girl children dramatically. The girls expect that they will have little chance at real happiness - that's for the men.
Most people here are concerned with survival, Dorothy. There is this maslows law of needs, right? Most people here are just in survival and reproductive stage. So just having a kid and sending them to school to eventually graduate is already a good deal for many... and that makes them happy.
It sounds like you married more than your wife - you married her family. That's actually a beautiful thing.
Yes... that was always the plan. Marrying into a great family.
In a sense in your culture in a way you learn how to divorce without divorcing.
The intellectual understanding of marriage in my culture is far different than yours.
First for the non muslims, there is no divorce... but there are hard to hurdle legal loopholes.
Second... the poor do not bother with formalities such as paper marriage or paper separation unless there is some legal requirement for migration or a migrant job.
Third... there usually is no property or assets to fight about or even pay divorce lawyers.
The FAMILY again is always there... with common grandchildren and nephews... families do not really divorce. They are tied by blood.
You still will take care of her and the children financially but go off with other women to meet your emotional and sexual needs. But where does that leave your wife?
Having mistresses and multiple girlfriends is just like having multiple children. Parents love all their children whether 2 or 12 children. That love is always unique to each child. Having number 2, 3 and 4 and 5 and 6... does not change the love for #1.
And this is what the book Ettiquetes for mistresses teaches that the mistresses should not aspire to dislodge #1... most of the time it is YOU the mistress who will be dropped. Because usually #1 is THAT SPECIAL... much more special than the rest...
(Unless #1 has unrealistic expectations and leaves her husband... which is usually viewed as a dumb idea.)
Check out this wildly popular movie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Other_Woman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Other_Woman)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e8/NoOtherWomanOfficial.png/220px-NoOtherWomanOfficial.png)
What will that do to your daughters if you have them?
Have mistresses?
Mistressing in the Philippines may have been going on since pre-historic times.
I see it so ingrained in the culture.
Sometimes your girl may be #1, and sometimes she's the mistress, or worse... life goes on.
My maternal grandmother was the mistress... #2.
My paternal grandmother was #1 and only one.
My mother wanted to be #1 and only one so she got a man like my dad.
It sounds like something was created that is better than abandonment - yes, but it sounds like a world of continuing hurt for so many women.
Hurt - only to the foreign mind, Dorothy.
And this is the problem with Imperialist policy is that they always want their new conquered lands to be like them instead of letting the natives be and just study and appreciate the differences.
What foreign tinkering has done in the past 50 years is NSSM 200 written by Henry Kissinger and the depopulation contraception scheme.
Ah, that is life... I'm just here to observe and tell fellow raw paleo dieters how I see it.
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Filipina women perpetuate polygamy along with the males because it is their nature. I'm privy to many women's lives and know and have seen them operate first hand. They get what they want and they do not care if the man is taken.
Filipina women play an active role in the final outcome of the sperm wars. Most Filipina women I have observed are powerful and are able to do what they desire the outcome to be.
Filipinas are not "objects". They are not victims. Most of this is free will.
Me, I admire the laws and culture of Polygamy allowing Islamic Filipinos because they seem to have almost eliminated prostitution and mistressing in their localities. They have divorce laws but their families are more solid than the non-muslim / Christians.
And we mostly do not buy the western male vs female idiocy. It's all about family... always root for your family. I have daughters... I will back them up with everything biased for my daughters. I have sons... I will back them up with everything biased for my sons.
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Hi GS - just wondering what business you are into, as you talked about you plan to earn millions?
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Right now im into website development, email providing and linux administration.
Do some health blogging. Will be authoring some health books.
Exploring poking at learning affiliate marketing. This has big potential.
Trading some stocks.
Could be anything in the future. Always open.
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Just wondering GS, if your wife is monogamous? and also your recommendations of birth control for people like my wife so that she wont get pregnant with a love child. She is very conflicted because she wants this man's baby but knows it would be too complicated and he has requested that she begin using birth control (contraceptive pills) to ensure that they do not conceive.
I still don't have any mistress yet, but I have been vetting a few candidates. I just now am coming clean with my past flirtations with my wife. There is this one woman I have known for three years. We have a platonic friendship that stems from our occasional chats with a married woman at the grocery store. She is very affectionate and kind, she gave me a 50$ gift card when I was broke, and she got me a bottle of goldenseal extract for my wounds on my last birthday. I gave her a Christmas card last Christmas. Today is my birthday and she gave me a hug.
I hid this Innocent platonic friendship from my wife, because how do you explain that you have a friend that you also find attractive, without being a cheater? Perhaps that is what I want more than a mistress is a friendship with a woman.
Is it possible to have such friendships? There was always this debate I would hear come up with the guys I grew up with about how you can't be a truly platonic friendship if you are attracted to each other. I always thought its such a pity that people cant put their lust aside in order to have true friendships with members of the opposite sex.
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Just wondering GS, if your wife is monogamous?
Since I caught her to have slept in another guy's house when we were engaged?
I don't know the answer to that question. All I care is all the children she bears are mine. So far I haven't seen the need to do DNA paternity tests.
and also your recommendations of birth control for people like my wife so that she wont get pregnant with a love child. She is very conflicted because she wants this man's baby but knows it would be too complicated and he has requested that she begin using birth control (contraceptive pills) to ensure that they do not conceive.
I would never wish for any woman to take birth control pills, patches, IUDs, injectables, etc... they are all poison... and all raw paleo dieters know this. The children will need their mother when they grow up and into old age.
I'm the wrong person to ask about contraception simply because I believe they should not be used so that people can go back to being real human beings and think about their actions as real human beings always with the possibility of pregnancy with sexual relations.
A woman who asks me to wear condoms I will always dress up and leave. I find out she's on birth control I dress up and leave as well.
I still don't have any mistress yet, but I have been vetting a few candidates. I just now am coming clean with my past flirtations with my wife. There is this one woman I have known for three years. We have a platonic friendship that stems from our occasional chats with a married woman at the grocery store. She is very affectionate and kind, she gave me a 50$ gift card when I was broke, and she got me a bottle of goldenseal extract for my wounds on my last birthday. I gave her a Christmas card last Christmas. Today is my birthday and she gave me a hug.
I hid this Innocent platonic friendship from my wife, because how do you explain that you have a friend that you also find attractive, without being a cheater? Perhaps that is what I want more than a mistress is a friendship with a woman.
Is it possible to have such friendships? There was always this debate I would hear come up with the guys I grew up with about how you can't be a truly platonic friendship if you are attracted to each other. I always thought its such a pity that people cant put their lust aside in order to have true friendships with members of the opposite sex.
Yes it is possible to have platonic friendships with a woman even if you are attracted to her like the usual taboos. She may be a blood relative. Or she may be your wife's sister. You just suck it up and try to be platonic.
It's easier for a man to control his attractions, urges if he's had a good amount of sexual experience playing the field or is sexually sated somehow.
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platonic relationships are totally possible, even if you extremely attracted, physically and mentally, to each other. i have a deeply loving friendship that is and has been kept platonic for at least 5 years. this is with someone who i have spent a lot of time with, worked with, hung out with, camped, built things..etc. this is perhaps the closest thing i can recognize as TRUE LOVE. its weird that, because this love has not manifested on the physical plane, it seems to have grown even more so in other realms. to the point where at times we are together its seems as though there is telepathic communication and understanding, we have run into each other after long periods of time under really strange circumstances, and more often then not have the same thing in mind of what we should do when we are together. this friend has had an on and off and now steady girlfriend through our whole relationship. i have had to back off hanging out with my friend because of her jealously but i respected that because i have been the jealous girl before. i think because i have respected her physical relationship she is now okay with us as friends and hopefully someday she and i will try and be friends as well:)
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Thank you for taking the time to explain so much about your culture GS. I'm not a pure product of my culture so maybe what you say is generally true about mine - but not generally true about me - so I'm not so sure I understand what you are saying completely about my culture. Most of the people I spend time with don't fit the stereotype you have stated either.
Women in the US used to not complain about the double standards until it changed because they never knew anything different. From what you said your culture only cares that the children are of paternal decent and not about the women. If it wasn't a double standard the women that weren't happy in their marriages sexually or otherwise would also go out and get gigalos and have lovers and their clan and husbands would fight over their babies.
You can't miss what you don't know exists I guess and it sounds like your women have been subjugated for so long that they haven't a clue - just like it was here in the old days.
Families standing up for each other and blood being important is all great - except it's only the male blood that seems to count.
The women have to stay sexless - from what I know about women in general I HIGHLY doubt that they all want to or that they don't have needs or desires - it's just that in your culture no one cares about them. They make the best of what they have available to them.
It's a big double standard - or you might otherwise have achieved something like what Sabertooth is aspiring to with his wife.
I still feel very sorry for your women after all that you said. Ignorance is not bliss.
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I have a lot barriers up and have been single most of my life, I have worked hard to own my place, started my business to protect myself from the whims of other people...
I picked a girl who my mate took party a year ago. Nothing happened with them, we went out.
I don't know about having more than one partner, I woud be happy for me to have more than one partner not her.
Thanks Wodg.
Do you mean that you would be open to having more than one partner as long as it wasn't her or do you mean that she wouldn't want to have another partner involved?
Are you still with this woman?
Having place and work settled is important. Like what GS was talking about - Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Hard to really think too much about general societal trends or even others much when you don't have your own basic needs of shelter, food and safety handled.
With that set, do you feel like you're ready to start letting down some of the barriers yet?
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You can't miss what you don't know exists I guess and it sounds like your women have been subjugated for so long that they haven't a clue - just like it was here in the old days.
What do you think Filipino women miss in 2012?
What I know is access to EBT cards / government handouts and student loans... where both men and women miss out.
Many women have more access to education because they can be prostitute scholars... whereas men find a smaller market to prostitute themselves.
Families standing up for each other and blood being important is all great - except it's only the male blood that seems to count.
Not so. Female blood is deFACTo... A woman's child is definitely her blood and it counts. Unless she got baby switched at the hospital.
The women have to stay sexless - from what I know about women in general I HIGHLY doubt that they all want to or that they don't have needs or desires - it's just that in your culture no one cares about them. They make the best of what they have available to them.
Women are not sexless in the Philippines. The example of allegedly sexless women were my wife and Alive's wife.
Many women stop having sex because the appeal of sex has dried up for them.
Sex is a reproductive function, not a pleasure function.
It's a big double standard - or you might otherwise have achieved something like what Sabertooth is aspiring to with his wife.
My wife works in a multinational corporate environment and travels locally and abroad without me. She has access and time to play around if she wants to.
Women like Sabertooth's wife wanting to breed with many men is uber common in the Philippines. It's a good strategy to be a professional mistress and have multiple voluntary child support. There are model type beautiful women who do this. And there are those who do not need child support who do this... one such high profile sperm collector and celebrity endorser / oprah type host is Kris Aquino, sister of the current President and daughter of the late Female President... she gets sperm from each targeted man to make her babies and discards the men afterwards.
If an example of poor women, there was my old company driver's wife who dumped her husband and 4 children in favor of her Korean lover. Driver hooked up with former wife's sister. Funny and true.
And how about our old security guard who was not able to conceive with his wife for 2 years, requested to get a babymaker woman, he found one willing. He got the babymaker pregnant. And a few weeks later, his wife was pregnant too. Our guard wound up asking my dad for paternity leave twice in a space of 2 weeks.
Or how about my good lady friend who was getting married. Her mom was crying. Not because she was pregnant. But because they didn't know which of her 3 boyfriends that kid was.
Then 12 years later this lady friend kept a diary of all her exploits and boyfriends. Husband found out. Asked anullment, got custody of what he thinks is "his" boy. Grandmother of the mother takes the kid to the USA for a tour and kidnaps the boy, while mother is waiting in the USA with her new boyfriend. Husband gets goons to chase mother and son and lover throughout the USA. But the last trump card was if he ever caught up... is he your son? Now that the boy is 21, he looks like the other boyfriend who migrated to Australia.
Or how about our female sales lady who had 3 children with her husband construction foreman. She got her assigned driver as his cuckolder / bull and she had a 4th child. That driver even became the godparent to his own kid. Dang little girl looks like bio dad without the mustache.
Or another good lady friend who's husband has a daughter with a previous girlfriend who left the child with him. Then he married this lady who cuckolded him and bore a fair skinned daughter. Then the next child was the husband's biological little boy. So it is obvious with the 3 children that the middle child is not of the husband's family. Sure, the grandmother and grandfather are pissed off and do not attend to the odd fair skinned child. But the lady just chugs along and tries to make a living not dependent on her husband and in laws... she's provincial. Yet husband accepts it as it is. Rainbow family.
Life is all colorful. As I said... women are uber powerful in my country. The cuckolded may get angry at a sperm collecting woman, but she will always have her family backing her up.
I still feel very sorry for your women after all that you said. Ignorance is not bliss.
Ignorance to what?
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@GS I read the beginning of your post but don't have the emotional energy to make it all the way through right now and respond to you fully. Maybe later. It's because you don't seem to have understood a word I said. You seem to think that money is the number one important thing in life and that women just dry up and sex is just for procreation and nothing more. Women don't just "dry up". You think that because it's how you are interpreting what you see around you in your culture. That can becomes true culturally but it is not a physiological or emotion fact regarding human females. You also take sentences out of what I write and miss the main points I'm trying to make. Going back and forth in such a way I doubt is going to be productive with you so I'll try to keep it more to single points.
Maybe there are some people that only care about money, jobs and procreation but I don't believe that my culture is superficial in that there is openness to relationships based on something different and I don't believe that there is no one in your culture that doesn't feel emotionally and sexually empty with such a setup - especially the women.
Listen, if you were my husband who I never really loved that I married for your family and I already got the kids I wanted (money and kids and family are all one has to hope for it seems so I did real good for myself from within the cultural bounds) I wouldn't have sex with you either or any other man in a culture like yours for one particularly important reason above the others: I'm obviously intelligent and find fulfillment at my job and with other women and with my family so why would I ever take the chance of getting STDs from a man that goes around exposing himself? You might believe that STD's are not real for a raw paleo dieter, but I don't even as a raw paleo dieter. If my immune system isn't strong enough and you carry something home I could end up dead.
Those prostitutes have nothing to lose. They might be able to get a baby and then have any kind of pull in the world. You are only concerned about spreading your seed - that's it. You didn't understand my point at all about the women's blood not being of the same value. I'm not going to try to explain that again or go back through what you wrote to quote you at this point - but maybe you can understand that in a society where there is no hope for a full loving sexual relationship through life with one person that you love (you said the women dry up yourself GS and the men go off - its' the way it is - mistresses are the norm) then the women are ignorant that they could have a happy fulfilled and safe sexual relationship with just one man that they love and who loves them. The culture negates that possibility - just like our negates the possibilities that Sabertooth is looking to explore.
You refusing to use a condom with women to me says it all that we are on such radically different pages on some real basic human level with being concerned about the health and welfare of others through our actions that all the rest I can't even stand to read at the moment.
Just in case you believe the statistical lies the Philippine government has been disseminating there are many links talking about how the HIV statistics are fabricated.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/ED03Ae04.html: (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/ED03Ae04.html:)
Chapter by chapter Wilkinson systematically lays bare the bitter truth behind the incredibly low HIV/AIDS figures being dispense by the Philippine government. The 75-years-young author, who has been a crusader for social issues in the Philippines for many years, writes that, "in the investigations, the more questions that were posed, the thicker the blanket of silence came down". But through meticulous research he manages to show that while the government proudly proclaims that the HIV/AIDS epidemic has passed the Philippines by, the scope of the problem is, in fact, much larger than anyone knows. In fact, Wilkinson points out, the Philippines couldn't possibly have such a low HIV/AIDS rate as all the ingredients of an epidemic clearly exist in the country. Instead, he insists, the Philippines is sitting on a social time bomb fueled by utter complacency and denial on the part of the government. And if something isn't done to tackle the problem soon, he says, an entire generation of Filipinos may be unnecessarily decimated.
@ Sabertooth - regarding birth control: There are methods that use only blockage. The woman inserts a device for the sex act and removes it after the sperm would no longer be viable. There are forms of this that use no creams or spermicides that might be absorbed by the woman that can be bought on-line. But........ if I were in your shoes....... unless I knew that the man my wife was having sex with was monogamous with her for sure and got proper testing before sex or used a condom reliably and that she was having sex with no other man either, I would simply not have sex with her without a condom on for my own self protection.
There are STDs that can be carried that might not produce symptoms in the person at the moment and might not produce symptoms in the sexual partner that might end up in you. Even you might not get symptoms as a raw paleo dieter but any woman that you have sex with that might have a weaker immune system could get a serious illness.
The only way to be responsible with multiple partners is to use proper protection. I don't know how that statement can be logically argued against. I remember years ago they were coming out with condoms that a woman could insert inside herself for protection. I didn't keep up watching if it came out or not - but if I were your wife that's what I would use to protect myself and you if her partner has ever had unprotected sex without testing and if he doesn't use a condom presently. If she wants to have a baby with him - I would sit down and have a real talk with him because it's not only your wife that can be affected. I would call him up and ask him how many partners he has had, whether he got tested for STD's and if he is going to be only having sex with your wife while trying to conceive. Then you have to talk about who is going to be responsible for such a child. I would also have that talk with your wife because if she wants a baby with him and is responsible for the birth control she might subconsciously mess up on the birth control even if she says consciously she will do it properly. If you're going to have an open marriage with open communication then if I were in your shoes I would have totally open conversations with any adult involved and insist on testing and proper protection and figure out everything in advance about possible baby issues regarding insemination, diseases, financial responsibilities and who is going to be responsible for raising them - including visitation and other rights.
This is the new millenium and in the US at least everyone should know the basics of protected sex and STDs when the information is so readily available and involves a life or death decision. If you want to debate whether it's life or death for a raw paleo dieter I won't do that because I haven't a clue really (and neither do you) since there has been no testing on the subject so it would be hubris to make a stance on that - but you surely can't argue that you having unprotected sex would be ok for your multiple partners that are not raw paleo.
Monogamy is one way of dealing with STDs and proper protection is another. The thing that makes polyamory a healthy possibility are the advances in protection regarding STDs and in the US there can be open conversations and contracts written up that protect all parties.
Hope some of those ideas are helpful to you Sabertooth.
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@GS I read the beginning of your post but don't have the emotional energy to make it all the way through right now and respond to you fully. Maybe later. It's because you don't seem to have understood a word I said.
Notice how far away we live from one another. There is always some misunderstanding. And notice that we are just typing. So there are a myriad of things not transmitted. But we try.
You seem to think that money is the number one important thing in life
For most Filipinos, lack of money is the number one thing.
and that women just dry up and sex is just for procreation and nothing more.
On a biological level observing the function of sex on most of the sexual animal kingdom... it seems so most of the time.
Women don't just "dry up". You think that because it's how you are interpreting what you see around you in your culture. That can becomes true culturally but it is not a physiological or emotion fact regarding human females.
I agree on the emotional portion. I have a 70 year old male friend and his wife is 72 and they are very sexual seniors. Once a week at least. But it does not stop from suspecting her senior husband's sexcapades when he travels to the Philippines allegedly for business... because she knows he can physiologically needs sex once a week. But they are happy together and that is their standing joke / argument / loving swipes.
You also take sentences out of what I write and miss the main points I'm trying to make. Going back and forth in such a way I doubt is going to be productive with you so I'll try to keep it more to single points.
I try to keep abreast of your multiple ideas.
Maybe there are some people that only care about money, jobs and procreation but I don't believe that my culture is superficial in that there is openness to relationships based on something different and I don't believe that there is no one in your culture that doesn't feel emotionally and sexually empty with such a setup - especially the women.
I try to write down my observations as a dispassionate social scientist.
My co-parent is a producer / director / writer for the biggest tv network here and her latest current shoots are about a new telenovela that the masses like. About a married man falling in love with a poorer woman and virgin while they were shipwrecked on an island and eventually goes back to mainland with his wife. But of course the mistressing goes on and the conflict continues.
Her research in a nutshell says that men are just polygamous and that women fall in love and do not care what the background of the man is.
This concept was epitomized a long time ago in a very popular movie: "I love you, whoever you are or may be."
Listen, if you were my husband who I never really loved that I married for your family and I already got the kids I wanted (money and kids and family are all one has to hope for it seems so I did real good for myself from within the cultural bounds) I wouldn't have sex with you either or any other man in a culture like yours for one particularly important reason above the others: I'm obviously intelligent and find fulfillment at my job and with other women and with my family so why would I ever take the chance of getting STDs from a man that goes around exposing himself? You might believe that STD's are not real for a raw paleo dieter, but I don't even as a raw paleo dieter. If my immune system isn't strong enough and you carry something home I could end up dead.
I hear you. Some people are deathly afraid of the STD and especially AIDS scare.
My best friend is afraid of STDs. So he remains loyal.
Which his loyalty is not rewarded because his 46 year old wife is having an affair and suggested that if her husband has a problem with it, that he should get a mistress too. The difference with Sabertooth's case is my friend's wife has already been hysterectomied.
Those prostitutes have nothing to lose. They might be able to get a baby and then have any kind of pull in the world.
Yet we should all recognize them as real people as you and me. I have no doubt some of my ancestors may have been.
You are only concerned about spreading your seed - that's it.
The way nature understands it is it is ruthless when it comes to extinction.
You didn't understand my point at all about the women's blood not being of the same value.
Then maybe in your culture "blood" means something else?
I'm not going to try to explain that again or go back through what you wrote to quote you at this point - but maybe you can understand that in a society where there is no hope for a full loving sexual relationship through life with one person that you love (you said the women dry up yourself GS and the men go off - its' the way it is - mistresses are the norm) then the women are ignorant that they could have a happy fulfilled and safe sexual relationship with just one man that they love and who loves them.
Maybe this is why it is seldom that an American white woman will marry a Filipino man?
And maybe this is why there are a lot of American / Canadian / British / Australian white males who marry Filipino women?
Check this out: http://cruelhoax.ca/?alongwaytogoforadate (http://cruelhoax.ca/?alongwaytogoforadate)
Maybe that is also why Filipino women aged past the calendar (past 30) cannot get a Filipino man, but has better prospects at getting a white foreigner!
The culture negates that possibility - just like our negates the possibilities that Sabertooth is looking to explore.
Yes, most clans here are not going to be happy with what Sabertooth's wife is trying to explore.
You refusing to use a condom with women to me says it all that we are on such radically different pages on some real basic human level with being concerned about the health and welfare of others through our actions that all the rest I can't even stand to read at the moment.
Of course we are different. No condoms is natural and "paleo"... and disgustingly "pro-life".
Just in case you believe the statistical lies the Philippine government has been disseminating there are many links talking about how the HIV statistics are fabricated.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/ED03Ae04.html: (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/ED03Ae04.html:)
The entire HIV / AIDS is a completely fabricated myth.
Something you and I can disagree on in another thread.
HIV tests are mostly fraud.
AIDS diagnosis is again mostly fraud.
Just as a lot of Cancer diagnosis is fraud.
There are other STDs that are real out there, but HIV/AIDS is not one of them.
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STDs wont be an issue with my wife's boyfriend because he has been celibate for many years and is extremely STD phobic himself. He doesn't want to have intercourse without using a condom. Its my wife that wants the all natural encounter. She does not want to use condoms at all and is certain she is safe from STDs with him.
I would want them to use condoms to prevent pregnancy, the only problem is finding one that fits. He has a monster that measures over ten inches, they have been looking for something that fit, Magnums are too tight and fall right off. I guess we will have to special order some online.
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STDs wont be an issue with my wife's boyfriend because he has been celibate for many years and is extremely STD phobic himself. He doesn't want to have intercourse without using a condom. Its my wife that wants the all natural encounter. She does not want to use condoms at all and is certain she is safe from STDs with him.
I would want them to use condoms to prevent pregnancy, the only problem is finding one that fits. He has a monster that measures over ten inches, they have been looking for something that fit, Magnums are too tight and fall right off. I guess we will have to special order some online.
If STD's are not an issue Sabertooth and just prevention of pregnancy then they have many more options of course. If he trusts your wife to handle the contraception then the cervical cap might be her best option.
But what happens if she does get pregnant anyway Sabertooth? No contraceptive technique is 100% reliable. Have you talked about contingency plans with her and her boyfriend?
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He has a monster that measures over ten inches, they have been looking for something that fit, Magnums are too tight and fall right off. I guess we will have to special order some online.
:o shocked
Straight out of those cuckold stories. ;D
My maternal grandma confided in me that she used a cervical cap on my grandpa without telling grandpa.
This is why she always said yes to sex every time he snapped his fingers. "I never say no..."
(or maybe she being the #2 wife / mistress tries harder)
You might wish to explore how a cervical cap on your little wife will survive a 10 inch monster going so deep.
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One thing that has been pointed out by more honest Asians is that the asian women in white men/asian women couples are generally just gold-diggers, the more decent asian women generally marrying their own kind. On my side, I recall one acquaintance, in his 60s, who married a Vietnamese woman in order to break into the Vietnamese market(they required one partner in each company to be a Vietnamese citizen), and the deal was that he left her his house in his will, which he did. Some however tend to backtrack on such deals, and this sort of thing can be the result:-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2167831/Married-pensioner-77-beaten-death-younger-Thai-lover-changed-leave-340-000.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2167831/Married-pensioner-77-beaten-death-younger-Thai-lover-changed-leave-340-000.html)
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GS - I'm worn out. Maybe another day I can go plucked sentence by sentence with you but not today.
I just can't keep up with what you say since it makes so little sense to me and this is taking so much of my time. This is a holiday for me.
You think HIV and AIDS are frauds. I have friends that have died from it so trying to tell me they are frauds .... I'm pretty much silenced there. You don't use condoms with prostitutes and aren't at all concerned about spreading STDs.
You think cancer diagnoses are frauds too. I think that standard cancer treatments are ineffective and dangerous - but why the diagnoses?
My head hurts. Maybe tomorrow I'll have the ability to deal with such statements.
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Dorothy... don't go around making accusations and inferring what I write about my general observations about sociology and my personal life. There's a legal word for that. Libel? Slander? or what other?
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Many cancer diagnosis are frauds.
a lump is a lump.
lumps and cysts should not at all costs need to be pricked to see if they are "cancerous" or not, malignant or not.
the holistic cancer cures will cure the cysts whether malignant or not.
many cysts are made by the body to shield the body from very bad poisons / toxins.
pricking that / BIOPSY to get a "sample" to analyze for malignancy is the #1 mistake the medical profession makes.
This allows that toxic / poison to escape and pollute the body when the body isn't ready for it.
And the patient goes into crisis.
BIOPSY is the green light the medical mafia wants to make "positive" so they can sell their profitable cancer "treatments".
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dorothy perhaps you can agree that there is not this vs that and perhaps both ways of having relationships with others are acceptable? i am not one to be in a non monogamous relationship, however i can respect that others are, and do believe that there can be happiness when mature people are clear about expectations and responsible enough to seek out ways of being in relationships where everyone is fulfilled physically and mentally
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Dorothy... don't go around making accusations and inferring what I write about my general observations about sociology and my personal life. There's a legal word for that. Libel? Slander? or what other?
Huh? Again - I totally do not understand you! What accusations and what did I infer? You are so totally confusing!
You are questioning whether biopsies should be done. Totally agree with that. You are saying that cancer should be treated with alternatives whether a lump or cancer also I agree with you. What I don't agree is with you saying that all cancer diagnoses are frauds. What exactly does that mean? That the person doesn't actually have cancer when they are diagnosed? Are you saying that the person with AIDS or HIV doesn't have it because you disagree with how it should be treated?
You confuse me no end.
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dorothy perhaps you can agree that there is not this vs that and perhaps both ways of having relationships with others are acceptable? i am not one to be in a non monogamous relationship, however i can respect that others are, and do believe that there can be happiness when mature people are clear about expectations and responsible enough to seek out ways of being in relationships where everyone is fulfilled physically and mentally
I know that a lot of words have gone about here Jessica and it would take a lot to read all of them - but I agree with you and have already stated it. Stepping outside of cultural programming - whatever culture - is what I have been saying is the way I like to approach things.
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the word "Cancer" and the word "Aids" are all encompassing word creations that strike fear in the people who believe them.
When many are just various symptoms and should be called by their varying symptoms only.
so "liver cancer" should just be liver with a tumor or cirrhotic liver.
or "kidney cancer" should be just kidney with a tumor and it is bleeding.
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As for monogamy aspirations. I'm with you there Dorothy. I just report what I see on the ground on how monogamy is really practiced.
As for the monogamy in the USA, I'd rather call it "serial polygamy".
Where in other cultures, they practice "concurrent polygamy".
Hey, staunch www.prolife.org.ph (http://www.prolife.org.ph) volunteer here. Does not mean I have to be blind and not be an amateur social scientist.
I'd want my daughters to have a husband like my best friend.
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the word "Cancer" and the word "Aids" are all encompassing word creations that strike fear in the people who believe them.
When many are just various symptoms and should be called by their varying symptoms only.
so "liver cancer" should just be liver with a tumor or cirrhotic liver.
or "kidney cancer" should be just kidney with a tumor and it is bleeding.
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As for monogamy aspirations. I'm with you there Dorothy. I just report what I see on the ground on how monogamy is really practiced.
As for the monogamy in the USA, I'd rather call it "serial polygamy".
Where in other cultures, they practice "concurrent polygamy".
Hey, staunch www.prolife.org.ph (http://www.prolife.org.ph) volunteer here. Does not mean I have to be blind and not be an amateur social scientist.
I'd want my daughters to have a husband like my best friend.
OK - I have some time at the end of the day here.
The way that the medical establishment categorizes symptoms into diseases is a big subject. Metastasis is what makes a tumor into cancer - the fact that it will grow and spread and take over and kill the person from malnutrition if not dealt with. A benign tumor is very different than cancer to a doctor and to the person with the tumor. Cirrhosis of the liver is different than a tumor whether benign or not. The categories can be useful even when treating alternatively. How much time, how intense of a therapy, what kind of therapy etc. Cirrhosis would benefit more from different therapies than either kind of tumor.
I would assume that the words cancer and AIDS instill fear because of the threat of death that is implied due to failure of the medical establishment to handle them effectively. The word cancer instills no fear in me any more. It's still a useful word though to describe something that is happening in the body.
HIV/AIDS also may have alternative therapies that would take away all fear associated with the microbe. I've never researched it though. The thing is that most people do not know of alternative cures for it and most people don't even have a decent diet. Those people no matter what you decide to call it will still be effected in a devastating way if the microbe is transferred to them.
Just saying that the words create fear doesn't change that having unprotected sex with multiple partners including prostitutes won't spread the microbe and create suffering. If you know of a way to keep people from getting AIDS or treating it with 100% effectiveness perhaps if you only had sex with people that you taught and prepared, that would be an option. If I knew cancer was sexually transmitted I could teach any potential partner how to cure it before having sex with them and provide them with the cures. Do you know ways of curing AIDS (or whatever you want to call it)? How about the other STDs?
Monogamy in the USA would be considered by me to be either plain old monogamy or serial monogamy. It is not polygamy because polygamy is not the social norm. When someone cheats on their partner it is not considered polygamy like in your culture where it is expected and accepted. Both cultures fail. Here people are not usually given the option of having a happy, responsible and liberated multi-partner choice. People don't usually consider it to be an option so there is no accepted polyamous option that people can adopt. They have to do what Sabertooth is trying to do and build it up from scratch in an uphill battle against other people's expectations and assumptions. So much pain and suffering happens because people don't think that they have that option in an open and honest form. The opposite is true in your culture the way I see it from what you described. Because it is so accepted that men will have mistresses and prostitutes there's an easy out so a long-term monogamous relationship is thwarted. Long term monogamy necessitates withstanding the ups and downs and dry periods and necessitates partners having to work hard to overcome their issues and barriers to intimacy. Because our culture supports monogamy as a value there is a framework to support it.
How you described your culture does not sound to me like a good model for poly-amorous relationships to adopt in general. Perhaps my culture is a poor example of monogamous relationships too.
I pretty much copted out of all my family expectations, all the societal expectations and chose my own path. I think that if I were raised in your culture I would not have been able to get outside the societal parameters because there is no psychological framework for delving deeper to work through problems.
Personal gain financially including owning women and children and social stature has been the foundation of relationships for a very long time. How much money, stature, children etc. will this relationship give me. It's all part of the patriarchal ideal. This idea is new of forming relationships on different grounds. It's never been conceived of or a possibility before. It's beyond monogamy or polygamy or anything any culture in modern written history has come up with yet. That's what I'm into.
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I rather like the term serial polygamy. Serial monogamy is a contradiction of the original meaning of mono + gamy ("one + marriage"), although I concede that modern usage allows monogamy to mean "one marriage at a time." Taken literally, you cannot have a series of one marriage, but you can have a series of marriages (plural). Again, this clever usage is based on the original meaning of the Greek words mono, poly, and gamos, none of which convey at-the same-timeness.
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It's interesting where words come from. I was referring to more how the words are used commonly in present usage. What I was trying to get at was that in our culture when someone is in a monogamous relationship and "cheats" it is not considered polygamy or even polyamorous because it is not an honest, conscious, culturally accepted choice usually. Often when the person is discovered having another relationship, the first relationship ends or there is at least discord. Polygamy in common usage is a marriage that includes more than 2 partners or one person married to more than one person. It does not infer secretiveness or jealousy as "cheating" in a monogamous relationship does. People that have had more than one marriage often still consider themselves to be monogamous, it's just that the first monogamous relationship with only one person ends and they move onto another monogamous relationship. Having extramarital affairs was always considered a grounds for divorce because the relationship is no long monogamous. In our culture we do not legally or culturally allow for other legal marriages other than monogamous ones. Polygamy is a term like marriage is in that they are legal contracts. Polyamorous would be the term related to monogamous because they are descriptive rather than legal in nature.
In this way in our culture there is no polygamy, only marriage as a legally binding sexual partnership. Monogamy and polyamoury to me denote conscious choice of kind of relationship. Our culture is based on a value system regarding monogamy as the ideal in movies, books, history. Very few people in our culture undertake polyamorous relationships. They just never commit at all having lots of short-term affairs or they cheat on the person that they are committed to. The idea of committing to or having a long-term relationship with more than one person and having deep sexual and emotional relationships and/or children with more than one person at a time doesn't fit into our present culturally accepted norms. We're a monogamy-based society here - and in the past this was especially true for women. In the history of the West men of means would have kept mistresses as the norm - but it was never talked about and it was hidden from the wives - but women were not to ever cheat on their husbands. Now cheating in the West goes both ways - but is still frowned upon and both men and women are expected to be faithful. It's becoming less of a double standard - but slowly. Cultural and legal standards for polyamory like what Sabertooth is trying to accomplish do not exist and polygamy is illegal. That's why I think we have serial monogamy here.
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... how the words are used commonly in present usage. What I was trying to get at was that in our culture when someone is in a monogamous relationship and "cheats" it is not considered polygamy or even polyamorous because it is not an honest, conscious, culturally accepted choice usually.... In this way in our culture ... etc.
You make it sound like there exists something called our culture which defines such things as norms of behavior and usage of vocabulary. Using your self-defined culture, you then proceed to pass judgment on diverse other cultures by deciding that deviation is dishonest, hurtful, and unacceptable.
I disagree with you. It's not all black and white. Within each system we have discussed on this thread, there is honesty, comfort, and acceptability, as well as dishonesty, hurt, and unacceptability. Even within one person, values flex, adapt, and change over time, which was a main point of Vitalis' interview.
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Well OF COURSE Eve. We're obviously talking generalities and generalities are never solid truths about everyone. GS was giving me the low-down on how he sees his culture. I do judge having unprotected sex with many partners whatever culture it is in and how GS described his culture I see as creating hurt just like in my own culture. He seems to have accepted his culture completely. I'm questioning that acceptance. I also judge my own culture. I'm judging the generalities of all cultures that I have been made familiar with.
Do you think that GS and I shouldn't play amateur social scientists here - because that's what both of us have been doing.
I'll stop trying to make any generalities and bow out of that part of the conversation because I seem to be horribly misunderstood both by you and Jessica - at the least. I haven't done a very good job of expressing myself based upon the reactions I'm getting.
But Sabertooth - would you please continue posting on your situation? I'm fascinating in you you and your wive's experiment of going out of the box of your social conditioning. I'd also like to be of support and help in any way I can.
Onto other topics where I might be more able to make myself more clearly understood so as not to waste time - mine or anyone else's. I've been talking in generalities which is not nearly as useful to me as learning practical things here as I'm quite happy with my own little life outside the box. I gain pretty much nothing by spending my time sharing my views and even less if they are so thoroughly misunderstood.
I'll leave with the following:
Blessings to everyone that has the bravery to work their way out of their programming! And to everyone else to, but maybe not with an exclamation mark. ;)
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Thanks Wodg.
Do you mean that you would be open to having more than one partner as long as it wasn't her or do you mean that she wouldn't want to have another partner involved?
Are you still with this woman?
Having place and work settled is important. Like what GS was talking about - Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Hard to really think too much about general societal trends or even others much when you don't have your own basic needs of shelter, food and safety handled.
With that set, do you feel like you're ready to start letting down some of the barriers yet?
Ok for me, yes and...wow you ask some pretty hard questions. You got enough dirt on me...
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Ha! Yeah - I do ask some hard questions don't I? But if it makes you feel any better I also ask them of myself.
We've all shared some pretty "dirty" and private things in this thread.
It's probably best to not use any of it against each other - so I'll be the first to promise intentionally to never do that.
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I also judge my own culture.
Prove it.
As far as I can tell, you've completely, unabashedly bought in to monogamy. Which is fine, but let's be honest about that fact. You are in no way, shape, or form viewing monogamy objectively.
If you want to talk about the danger of STDs, we can do that. However, when sex with other partners is open and accepted, the odds of having foolish unprotected sex go down, because you're more likely to make your sexual decisions using your common sense as well as your desire.
If you want to talk about jealousy and hurt feelings, please be aware that those things are largely culturally-created. Yes, some people are more naturally jealous than others, but that's not the majority of what's happening when people get their feelings hurt because of cheating. The simple fact of deception is quite often the bigger issue.
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Prove it.
As far as I can tell, you've completely, unabashedly bought in to monogamy. Which is fine, but let's be honest about that fact. You are in no way, shape, or form viewing monogamy objectively.
If you want to talk about the danger of STDs, we can do that. However, when sex with other partners is open and accepted, the odds of having foolish unprotected sex go down, because you're more likely to make your sexual decisions using your common sense as well as your desire.
If you want to talk about jealousy and hurt feelings, please be aware that those things are largely culturally-created. Yes, some people are more naturally jealous than others, but that's not the majority of what's happening when people get their feelings hurt because of cheating. The simple fact of deception is quite often the bigger issue.
Um - you say that I have completely and unabashedly bought into monogamy. That is a lot to say about someone that you do not know and has not stated such. What I did say was that I have a monogamous relationship for the last 22 years because of one man and have spoken of it in a personal manner. I have not talked about my life before that nor have I stated (by far) that I think monogamy is better than all other possibilities.
People here seem to be judging ME and categorizing me in ways that I find a bit disturbing. There seems to be a lot of jumping to conclusions without reading all of what I said and there seems to be reading a lot into a few things that I have said with my main point being overlooked or ignored.
Of course I'm not completely objective - no one is. That's been the point I have been trying to make the whole time! We are cultural beings and I am questioning the buying into one's cultural programming - any culture. But no one wants to recognize when I say that over and over and over again.
In regard to STDs what we were talking about was a general acceptance in a particular culture of not practicing unprotected sex and with the males having as a standard many partners, often prostitutes with one person in particular here saying that they buy into that culture and that practice completely.
I was not talking about jealousy - I was talking about hurt primarily of other forms - mostly because of a the double standard and not necessarily just emotional hurt. But I'm not being well understood and I'm not sure more words are going to make it clear.
I have not lead a standard sexual life or the standard relationships of any kind over the course of my life that you seem to be fantasizing about me - but I'm getting really uncomfortable with being so misunderstood and incorrectly judged. It is impossible for me to prove anything to you. It's hard in the typed word where only the words that get the most reaction are taken out and the rest not registered.
I've said that both cultures we were discussing fail from opposite directions. You don't believe me. So be it.
I guess reading that someone is happy in their monogamy yet questions their culture which is based on monogamy and reading that someone is questioning another person that is accepting their culture completely automatically registers as someone that has bought into their culture and is judging only other cultures. Questioning and judging my own culture might not compute to some people with having a monogamous relationship. But I am not that linear or simplistic. I have far from followed my cultural programming in my decision - even when deciding to be monogamous with Brian. Even being able to create the kind of long-term monogamous relationship that I have is far from what I was taught and programmed to do in my culture... if you could really know what I have experienced you would understand.
I'll say it one more time - maybe this time it will stick. I have been talking this entire time about getting out the boxes of cultural programming and not fitting ourselves into the boxes that we were taught to. We speaking in detail always for me as examples of that larger context. I can't prove that I mean what I say. Y'all can keep on ignoring it and saying I mean something else than what I do or you can believe me. I have no control over how you want to interpret what I say.
I just seem to have done a really bad job of getting my points across and I'm starting to think that it is a lost cause to try to make myself understood on this subject. So far, not one person has said anything that makes me believe that I have been even slightly understood. I think it might be time to give up.
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Latest Update
I sacrificed a night of revelry at my brothers 4th of July party so that she could of out on her date. She had a good time and is happy with their relationship and claims she is in love. The only issue we seem to be having now is scheduling conflicts. She wants to go out again on Sunday, but I am going to a male pole dancing class Sunday afternoon. I want to dedicate the next few months to learning the art of the gigolo, so if my quest for free love doesn't work out , I can start charging for it.
What ever happened to the idea of free love?
Where have all the flower people gone?
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sabertooth, for your deal to work out you both have to be with someone, so at the same time you're both full of the "love hormones" that are pumping in the first few months you fall in love with someone.
Otherwise jealousy will very likely ruin the relationship.
Just writing my thoughts.
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My dear Sabertooth, at my age I'm not so much in the market for a gigolo, but if you're ever out on the west coast, you can be my personal butcher in charge of "our little slaughterhouse" <deep sigh!> and I won't get jealous if you do some gigolo-ing on the side. ;D
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Latest Update
I sacrificed a night of revelry at my brothers 4th of July party so that she could of out on her date. She had a good time and is happy with their relationship and claims she is in love. The only issue we seem to be having now is scheduling conflicts. She wants to go out again on Sunday, but I am going to a male pole dancing class Sunday afternoon. I want to dedicate the next few months to learning the art of the gigolo, so if my quest for free love doesn't work out , I can start charging for it.
What ever happened to the idea of free love?
Where have all the flower people gone?
The arts of the gigolo - good stuff to know whether you are charging or not!
This book might be of interest to you - and to men wanting to learn to please women in general:
http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Of-The-Gigolo-ebook/dp/B006IUNZNK (http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Of-The-Gigolo-ebook/dp/B006IUNZNK)
It sounds like all you you need is a good babysitter.
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What ever happened to the idea of free love?
Where have all the flower people gone?
Lol I'm sayin!
JK, really though, they moved in to college dorms. Kids are learning about sex earlier and more thoroughly than previous generations. This can lead to open minded, savvy, young adults who are experimenting with sex earlier and not viewing it with the mores of earlier years. It may not be as simple as going to a commune for orgies like it was in the 60's, but free love is not only happening, it's going to get more common as we (r)evolve and organized religion, politricks and cultural mores breakdown in to their graves where they belong.
Why were most 'gods' in most 'myths' polyamorous? Because that is our nature, to be in love with one another, and sex is often an expression of love/affection. And those 'gods' had basis in reality, even if the myths have misportrayed them in some respects.
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A study in mythology might not be what you were wanting to point to as depicting our natures Thoth because jealousy is a common theme in western mythology. The lesson - be careful or you might be turned into a bull or some such. ;D
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That's right, times are changing - information is available through the internet without restriction from the religious and elite controlling classes, so your parents ingrained cultural / religious sexual repressions might not be copied so easily.
Just consider mainstream TV - as the Family Guy theme song says its violence at the movies and sex on TV. Just take Rock of Love - its not explicit so its allowed, morals not longer matter, just freedom of choice and the law.
I heard about a primitive tribe where the rules were that either Marriage partner could mate with anyone else, but the wife could not give food to any other males. So the man could encourage a woman to accept his advances by offering her meat, and then she would share it with her husband. I suppose the equivalent in modern days would be to replace the meat with money!
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My perspective on the marriage laws, divorce culture, and contraceptive culture is to no longer allow, no longer encourage my children to get "married" under the government's stupidly changing laws that give zero benefit and may even harm my kids... put them at risk.
My wife's brother and her cousin are into this. They are both committed family men without big brother government laws.
And since statistics show that 20 years from now the total fertility rate will be something like 1 child per woman in the city, it no longer makes sense to encourage my sons to be monogamous. They will need a couple of women / "wives" to equal grandma... the true woman. Will most probably scour the the provinces for healthy and willing women to be real "wives". I'm looking forward to driving around and flying around looking for these candidates.
The above is my strategy for my sons.
For my daughters I'd want them to find marrying men, pro-life men. And hopefully my daughters will step up to the pro-life culture. Must keep mingling with pro-lifers.
Sabertooth,
If you are posting your cuckold adventures in one of those cuckold forums under a pseudonym, please send me a private message to your thread so I can read about it!
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I didn't say though that the jealousy ascribed to them was part of our nature, only that polyamory definitely was, and I don't need the myths anyway since mammalian behaviour is replete with many forms of sexuality, gay, straight, orgies, manipulative sex, calming sex, bartering sex, and on and on. Animals like to get freaky in a big way, especially our closest genetic matches! If we were taking this raw paleo thing to its logical and practical conclusion, everyone should be fucking anytime anywhere for many different reasons. Which I'm totally cool with so long as I was not forced to participate (no force necessary, lol jk...sort of).
And furthermore, if jealousy IS part of our nature, that is if it's not something brought about by wrong thought, then so be it, the truth is the truth, ugly or pretty!
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I didn't get married until it was financially and legally necessary. I don't even remember when it was - maybe 6 years ago or something. No wedding. It's just a piece of legal paper. We had our own private vows to each other at the beginning which meant a great deal more. Marriage was originally a way of passing ownership of a woman from one man to another - and the children of course. Then it became a way for the government to have control over the children and confiscate them - but now the government has that right to do that whether married or not - so that's all really just history. Today in this country marriage is necessary when navigating through the system. I stayed completely out of the system for the longest time, but after Brian was in the hospital and they nearly killed him it gave me a wake up call that I needed legal standing. We also were about to move into a house that I thought it would be best for me to be in co-ownership of. I gave up a lot and might end up with a number embedded in me (a psychic fear that I've had since childhood) by becoming a spoke in a cog I have little respect for but it also gave me other benefits. Some of the benefits were emotional in that both Brian and I had fear about marriage and what it would do to our sacred union and of letting the government and legalities in. Getting married released a lot of fears and made us delve deeper into recognizing and conquering programming. I really thought I'd never give into such an institution, but when I recognized that it had nothing to do with relationship and only to do with how the system registered us and something that was actually to our benefit in the world we are living in, it became a different kind of decision.
My extended family understood and understands nothing of my ways or decisions. They accepted fully their culture. I'm not an extension of any of them and they could not program me to be like them and want what they wanted no matter how hard they all tried. So much disappointment and loss on their part for not wanting to know me for who and what I am rather what they wanted of me. I guess a lot of children turn out to be replicants of their parents just like so many of us can't deeply question the tenants of our cultures. I think the first word out of my mouth was probably a question. ;) My spirit couldn't be contained by parent or culture. I've never wanted a child to be a continuation of me or make up for what I couldn't accomplish myself - at least in this lifetime. I do remember all the lifetimes where I did do that. Didn't want to fall into that old cycle again. I'm totally into creating something new that I've never experienced before. What I have now is something that could never have been before in any other place or time that has come before. I hope that the younger generation will have more choices and opportunity for creating deep relationship rather than just superficial ones at the dictates of parents/teachers etc. - as our culture can tend to be generally superficial imho. I hope they can create a world that supports them well
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I didn't say though that the jealousy ascribed to them was part of our nature, only that polyamory definitely was, and I don't need the myths anyway since mammalian behaviour is replete with many forms of sexuality, gay, straight, orgies, manipulative sex, calming sex, bartering sex, and on and on. Animals like to get freaky in a big way, especially our closest genetic matches! If we were taking this raw paleo thing to its logical and practical conclusion, everyone should be fucking anytime anywhere for many different reasons. Which I'm totally cool with so long as I was not forced to participate (no force necessary, lol jk...sort of).
And furthermore, if jealousy IS part of our nature, that is if it's not something brought about by wrong thought, then so be it, the truth is the truth, ugly or pretty!
I wasn't making any point except about ancient mythology not only being about polyamorism but also having lots of jealousy in regard to it. I don't know if that's our nature or not. It's just a big part of mythology. I'm not sure if those ancient myths apply to paleo peoples or modern peoples really. I've studied them a lot though. Pretty fascinating stuff those collective unconscious patterns.
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sabertooth, for your deal to work out you both have to be with someone, so at the same time you're both full of the "love hormones" that are pumping in the first few months you fall in love with someone.
Otherwise jealousy will very likely ruin the relationship.
Just writing my thoughts.
What if Saber meet's a woman who his wife knows is younger/hotter than her? female hypergamy in reverse and hyperdrive
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What if Saber meet's a woman who his wife knows is younger/hotter than her? female hypergamy in reverse and hyperdrive
Guaranteed Sabertooth will meet younger hotter babes between now and 50 years.
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Guaranteed Sabertooth will meet younger hotter babes between now and 50 years.
I would bet on it.
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I'm sure Sabertooth is going to meet exactly who he wants to meet! The real problem might be when he meets that woman that is his intellectual equal and supports him in his projects AND is a great sexual mate for him. He is a real hottie himself so there won't be any trouble for him finding hot women - but that won't necessarily be the most threatening if something is going to be threatening at all to his wife.
My husband was a photographer surrounded by the most beautiful women in the world, often half naked and available to him as he is a very handsome man - and yet he chose me. He said that he loves my "ugly mug" (not his words - mine).... he says more accurately that he "loves looking at my face" because it radiates through it who I am. It's not always about who is the hottest and youngest. Men have just as many emotional, intellectual and spiritual needs as women do.
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Men have just as many emotional, intellectual and spiritual needs as women do.
With those 4 cute babies between him and his wife... meeting other hot women are just playthings... his wife still remains on top at #1.
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Maybe, maybe not GS. Here in the US people divorce and re-marry all the time no matter how many children there are. If he meets a woman that meets all his needs/desires that he never wants to be away from and she gets pregnant then he will have children in both camps. Men here spend time with their children and not their x-wives all the time. Women don't stay number 1 necessarily because they have children here. She might not even stay number 2. People still have amiable divorces where they both take care of the children without living with each other. That's why here the emotional aspect of his relationship with another woman would be biggest possible threat to his wife. Casual sex won't be enough to pull someone away permanently with their open marriage. Children don't keep couples together here like they do in your culture so that might not be the case with Sabertooth and he might not even know now what he would do if he were to meet someone he wants to be with 24 hours a day.
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Let's get the Brazilians in this conversation to make it more fun:
Single In Brazil: "F" for Fidelity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYaeXc0Zd_g#)
"I accept infidelity... just wash it honey..."
"Men need to spread sperm..."
"They love to go and come back..."
"Women of the world wake up..."
They're more open about the reality of men in Rio in this interview.
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It ends with:
Just enjoy - don't fall in love.
It's about where to go if you are single and want to party. Rio is the perfect place for that - apparently.
I have a hard time with stereotyping all men just like I do in stereotyping all women and saying that cultural programming is some basic reality about men.
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With those 4 cute babies between him and his wife... meeting other hot women are just playthings... his wife still remains on top at #1.
Having 4 kids together makes her my number 1. Seeing her over the years grow as a dedicated mother and steady lover has earned her top position in my harem.
She is playing some kind of head game with me right now and wont tell me her true feelings about any possible jealousy. She pretends to have a devil may care attitude, and seems to think it is just a matter of time before I replace her, while giving the impression that it wouldn't bother her as long as she still had her lover.
No matter what happens , I made a vow to see to it that I live with my children and help the mother raise them, no matter what. Even if that means having to miss out on some ethereal out of this world mistress.
She has been making great progress in her relationship, and the guy is now professing his feelings, he says he cant live without her and has already made plans to introduce her to his mother as his girlfriend. Sometime during the dinner conversation they will have to tell his mother about me and my wife's four children. All the problems with are arrangement arise from having to deal with other peoples reactions. There are people in my family who talk negatively about us and refuse to show any signs of acceptance for our choice.
Whether or not it is the"right" choice is up to the two of us to decide. There have been some noticeable changes that have been both positive and negative. Seeing her get so comfortable and loving toward another man does affect me and seems to raise my drive, I have also noticed that I spend more time prowling about, looking for reasons to go out and am a bit obsessed with thoughts about other women. Sometimes its a bit too much, and drives me to emotional exhaustion. Earlier today I made an arrangement for my lady friend to accompany me to a Buddist group for next Sunday. Then ran off to take a male pole dancing class. It was a lot of fun and there are some mighty fine looking instructors! Then I ran out and found my other lady friend on her break and chatted with her a bit before breaking out some pole dancing moves on a light pole. There seems to be much more confidence lately.
Its funny doing all that running around only to wind up in the loving embrace of the number one.
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Sabertooth, have you thought about, talked about when you have children with other women? Have you figured out what would happen with the children that your wife might have with her boyfriend? Do you have some kind of commitment between you for her to always be number one no matter how many children you have with another or what feelings might arise? I'd imagine that it would be hard to predict.
Too bad people are being difficult - but it makes sense with their social programming. It's not much different than eating raw meat in a way. You do the best you can and just go on with what you know to be right for you.
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Sabertooth - I like your experiment!
I don´t know about other countries, but here in Germany women usually seperate from their men, and not the other way round. Women, by nature, are much more selective than men when it comes to sex. So if they don´t feel attracted to or don´t like their man any longer, they will separate (or at least don´t like to have sex with him any longer), given, of course, that they are economically independent from him. It may even be a torture to them if they have to have sex with a certain man just because of his money or just because they are married to him.
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Hanna -- yes, that's why they should have sex before you get married. They marry and then they realize they aren't attracted, wtf?? Waste of time for both!
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Dorothy, do you have kids?
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Alpha: The problem is that women may be attracted to a man at the time they marry him, but aren´t attracted to him any longer after some time. So they won´t have sex with him any longer (it they are free to choose!) or separate.
Free love is fine, but free love could mean that some men will have even less sex than they have in our current culture (with marriages and the like as "institutionalized prostitution").
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Alpha: The problem is that women may be attracted to a man at the time they marry him, but aren´t attracted to him any longer after some time. So they won´t have sex with him any longer (it they are free to choose!) or separate.
Free love is fine, but free love could mean that some men will have even less sex than they have in our current culture (with marriages and the like as "institutionalized prostitution").
And this is why i plan that my boys do not get married... there is no benefit. Just live in or live out. And why monogamy doesnt make sense.
And be well aware that if they want children, they go and get partners who want children as well.
Sabertooth and wife just love children... Real sex!
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Free love is fine, but free love could mean that some men will have even less sex than they have in our current culture (with marriages and the like as "institutionalized prostitution").
Frequency of sex was a touchy subject in my last relationship. Ideally would have been twice a day or more when we were together, and I don't find this unreasonable because we would be apart for a week at a time while she was flying trips all over the country(pilot). In our case she had sexual abuse issues and guys who have cheated on her in the past so even though we had great, mutually pleasurable sex when we did, I feel she was holding back, and she agrees, because of her abuse and trust issues, which she has yet to deal with, and also her former mormon life and the guilt that produces.
All this is to say, when society grows and people have rid themselves of disease and limiting beliefs, it will probably be like lots of shagging going on everywhere, because everyone will feel happy and satisfied and confident and that makes people horny IMO. It does me anyway! lol
And we can see this in our closest relatives the chimps AND in lots of 'primitive' tribes. Not saying that sex is always healthy (I'm thinking of a tribe in south america that had orgies and involved young (12yrs) children, or probably just girls), but in our little utopia it would be.
A lot of peeps are cynical and balk at the idea of a utopia, but that is precisely where we're headed. There might be some growing pains but we WILL get there, 100th monkey and all....or rather, the relative 100th human. That is why we need everyone to be involved in raising their consciousness, because as soon as it hits a tipping point, the rest of the species will catch on!
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Alpha: The problem is that women may be attracted to a man at the time they marry him, but aren´t attracted to him any longer after some time. So they won´t have sex with him any longer (it they are free to choose!) or separate.
Free love is fine, but free love could mean that some men will have even less sex than they have in our current culture (with marriages and the like as "institutionalized prostitution").
Yeah, the problem is, as goodsamaritan has said, we're not programmed well for monogamy. Socially yes, but hormonally not really. Only if there's really really good match a long term attachment will develop and everyone will be happy.
And that's why people should live together for a few years at least, before deciding to go further.. it will prevent a lot of headaches, divorces, stress and "women deciding all of a sudden they are not attracted".
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Yes aLpt, it would mean that the rich and very attractive (dominant, funny, strong, handsome, smart, cunning or whatever...) men would be getting all the sex, so for the men there would be winners and losers.
A friend who lived on a commune felt uneasy when she noticed so many of the different womens children all looked like one of the dominant males... How would their partners feel about this?
With contraception though the outcome of the union can be altered to prevent pregnancy, so could the participants enjoy their primal brains following the age old script without the hassles of more children.
GS wouldn't like this, but most people appreciate that we earthlings need to keep our childbirth rate down to be able to be a sustainable species without triggering painful disruptions from even more over population.
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Yes aLpt, it would mean that the rich and very attractive (dominant, funny, strong, handsome, smart, cunning or whatever...) men would be getting all the sex, so for the men there would be winners and losers.
getting all the real / impregnation sex...
the support men get contraceptive sex...
A friend who lived on a commune felt uneasy when she noticed so many of the different womens children all looked like one of the dominant males... How would their partners feel about this?
Where was this commune? Link to such communes?
With contraception though the outcome of the union can be altered to prevent pregnancy, so could the participants enjoy their primal brains following the age old script without the hassles of more children.
GS wouldn't like this, but most people appreciate that we earthlings need to keep our childbirth rate down to be able to be a sustainable species without triggering painful disruptions from even more over population.
I understand the point of view of the belief in overpopulation. And I thank those people willing to extinguish their own bloodlines so that some of us reproductive people can inherit the earth.
But if you look at history like the Roman Empire of 0-200 AD, this contraception / abortive culture did what today's people in the 21st century are doing now. After that period of Roman Contraceptivity, some people had to inherit the earth... and these were the non-contraceptive peoples... why if you look at the succeeding Roman Catholic teachings and the new 6th or 7th century Islam... were written by those very reproductive and calling for successful reproduction strategies such as polygamy.
It will be a repeat performance on the 21st to the 23rd century. All we reproductive people can do is fight with every f*ck to survive a contraceptive depopulation norm.
This is survival mode times, self preservation of blood lines times.
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GS, the comune was in Takaka, Golden Bay, NZ:
(https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcStrWHnDuSBYY8LQxYGAV6fIc1Y9Eyw870Wxm5WGzfXcEZJNwH5)
(http://photos.harcourts.co.nz/007/993/178-GY91002-AbelTasmanDrive,LigarBay-Takaka-Takaka-GoldenBayTakaka-TasmanDistrict-Nelson&Bays-NewZealand_custom.jpg)
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Sabertooth, have you thought about, talked about when you have children with other women? Have you figured out what would happen with the children that your wife might have with her boyfriend? Do you have some kind of commitment between you for her to always be number one no matter how many children you have with another or what feelings might arise? I'd imagine that it would be hard to predict.
Too bad people are being difficult - but it makes sense with their social programming. It's not much different than eating raw meat in a way. You do the best you can and just go on with what you know to be right for you.
To answer your questions
1)We tell our older children about the other people we adore. I tell my son when I am going to visit my girlfriends, and that I like so and so's mom. Then he goes behind my back and tells mama everything. We are all about positive reinforcement, If you don't want your teenage daughter to run off with some punk, then first of all, you don't fill them with prejudice and fear of unsavory people . Instead you start pointing out people and behavior that are admirable, when they are still young. If you know a cute couple that have a loving relationship, then tell the children out loud about what a cute couple those two make. A little positive conditioning can do a world of good.
2)We are using measures to prevent pregnancy, and the boyfriend is adamant about not wanting children.
3)The third question is difficult for me to answer. I promised myself to be their for my children no matter what. There are no plans for impregnating other women at this time. Life has got me so strapped for money and time that it just doesn't seem like a good Idea. Then again you can never say never, circumstances do change, but it will take an absolute goddess, to take me away from my first Litter and brood mare.
I don't blame people for not accepting polyamory, many people have identified with monogamy as a virtue and gear their lives around attainment of the idealistic relationships. Many people settle for the acceptable norm because its the path of least resistance. Many people do not like to be confronted with ideas suggesting that other people don't have to live and love as they do. The idea that ones spouse is harboring sexual feelings for others upsets the monogamous type. So, one must view such issues with compassion and understanding. Voyeristically flaunting your wide open sexuality in a society of people who have chosen monogamy as the ideal, is a bit rude and inconsiderate. Just as it would be inconsiderate to go into a vegans home with a slab of raw beef and start chowing down.
Sabertooth - I like your experiment!
I don´t know about other countries, but here in Germany women usually seperate from their men, and not the other way round. Women, by nature, are much more selective than men when it comes to sex. So if they don´t feel attracted to or don´t like their man any longer, they will separate (or at least don´t like to have sex with him any longer), given, of course, that they are economically independent from him. It may even be a torture to them if they have to have sex with a certain man just because of his money or just because they are married to him.
It seems natural for women to be highly selective with who they let breed them. Such selective breeding is in part responsible for the advancement of our species. The laws of attraction have gotten a lot more complicated in the modern age. Women may have had a much easier time discerning positive attributes in a time where men were measured by their more primal abilities and not by the industrial aged materialistic criteria. Now a days what makes for a worthy mate in the urban jungle, seems so ambiguous and complicated that its no wonder so many people go sexually schizophrenic, and are never able to keep up healthy relationships.
It all boils down to the fact that we have been separated from our tribal nature and most people no longer grow up in complete communities, where relationships within small close nit groups of people can arise naturally and are able to grow and mature in less complecated environments. One must give modern humans credit for being able to adapt and persist under a wide range of circumstances and still be reasonably happy and healthy.
Those who have been born and raised outside of the range of healthy environments will just have adapt to the modern jungle, or die tring. Sometimes its not pretty, but the paleo world was often very cruel as well. Each individual must forge onward and learn to play the game of love without an official rule book to go by. If you are lucky then you may find small pockets of people within the swarm that will guide, accept and love you along the way. We all could use a special someone who will help us play this game without keeping score or taking things to seriously. Someone who will let us cheat on occasion or at least bend the rules, but also someone to stop us from going too far and harming ourselves or others.
Alpha: The problem is that women may be attracted to a man at the time they marry him, but aren´t attracted to him any longer after some time. So they won´t have sex with him any longer (it they are free to choose!) or separate.
Free love is fine, but free love could mean that some men will have even less sex than they have in our current culture (with marriages and the like as "institutionalized prostitution").
Peoples taste do change. Its not unreasonable to think that someone would want something different after many years of the same thing over and over. If men were not compelled to put the shackles of wedlock on their women then in general they would probably enjoy a much greater quality and variety of sexual experience. I have let my mate date this man, whom I had chosen, for over two months and she still enjoys putting out for me regularly.
Aldous Huxleys wife helped him get other women regularly. She thought he would get bored with just having her all the time, so she encouraged her friends to be with him.
My goal is to cultivate a deeper awareness of these primal drives. and with the permission of my brood mare, to seek out a mate that is willing to take part in a some of my S)experiments.
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Yes aLpt, it would mean that the rich and very attractive (dominant, funny, strong, handsome, smart, cunning or whatever...) men would be getting all the sex, so for the men there would be winners and losers.
but women also appreciate to be loved and want to feel that their potential partner cares for them, so I don´t think that few men would get all the sex.
Regarding money / rich men, there will never be true sexual freedom for women if few men have all the money and women have to prostitute themselves for these rich men simply to survive or be able to feed their children (as seems to be the case in the Phillipines).
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but women also appreciate to be loved and want to feel that their potential partner cares for them, so I don´t think that few men would get all the sex.
Regarding money / rich men, there will never be true sexual freedom for women if few men have all the money and women have to prostitute themselves for these rich men simply to survive or be able to feed their children (as seems to be the case in the Phillipines).
Men have always been the ones who have held resources. It's our bargaining chip..you girls have the beauty. What is happening now in germany and the west is not normal. Plenty of men have never had true sexual freedom as most have never procreated.
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Men didn't traditionally hold resources as a bargaining chip, the procured resources and then willingly handed them over to the matriarchs who used these resources so that they could make a home in which everyone lived. The roles of men and women complemented each other. Now with the idea of equality,meaning women have to play the same roles as men, and also reproduce, the complementary relationship has been altered. Men now feel more compelled to use resources as a bargaining chip, and to try to corner females into marital bondage as the only means by which he can have a home and be a part of a family. A man without any material prospects is a loser in today's world.
The system has made bastards of us all.
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To answer your questions
1)We tell our older children about the other people we adore. I tell my son when I am going to visit my girlfriends, and that I like so and so's mom. Then he goes behind my back and tells mama everything. We are all about positive reinforcement, If you don't want your teenage daughter to run off with some punk, then first of all, you don't fill them with prejudice and fear of unsavory people . Instead you start pointing out people and behavior that are admirable, when they are still young. If you know a cute couple that have a loving relationship, then tell the children out loud about what a cute couple those two make. A little positive conditioning can do a world of good.
You misunderstood my question entirely - but that's ok. I wasn't asking about your conversations with your children. Thanks for sharing it anyway.
There seems to be a general acceptance of sex as only a first and second chakra activity where choices regarding relationships are premised on those energies and goals alone and that raw paleos in relationship should be about survival and physiological urges and reproduction without the possibility of making decisions from a different view entirely - whether monogamous or polyamorous. That's to be expected I guess since almost all people do make decisions from that place. Making decisions not from culture, programming or reaction - how I see things - I haven't even been able to vaguely approach here and doubt that I will ever be able to.
I've come to doubt that I could affect anyone's perceptions as my ideas are too radical.
Blessings to you all with your experiments and/or accepted roles and I wish you all the best.
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What are your radical ideas?
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Thanks for your kind wishes.
Thats the point Dorothy) its impossible for anyone to possible know how to approach these issues. There is an inseparable duality. Culture and nature both are constantly battling it out in the world of human relationship. Its something that will never be resolved as long as the great race is still going on.
I am tring to build a personal view from the prospective of what will ultimatly lead me to living the healthiest most full fulling life possible. While at the same time leaving behind people that have been wholly uplifted by what I had put into this life.
If more people could share thier own views in detail ,right here, then we all could have a greater perspective on the subject.
I often am guilty of putting out ideas about human relationships, from a more paleo-centric, evolution of the species point of view , which would seem radical to most of the civilized world.
Ideas that encourage one to still live in accordance with our primal drives , can be very disturbing and harmful to the societal structures of today's world. In most of society you would be misunderstood. What I want to preach about and encourage others to do is to be pragmatic. Get to know your yourself from the same open minded perspective that has brought you to this Raw forum. The jungle is calling its creatures to action. Learn more fully about what the call of nature within your heart and the consequences of ignoring its needs. Focus your intelligence on of finding ways to fulfill those basic needs and encourage others to follow by example.
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There seems to be a general acceptance of sex as only a first and second chakra activity where choices regarding relationships are premised on those energies and goals alone and that raw paleos in relationship should be about survival and physiological urges and reproduction without the possibility of making decisions from a different view entirely - whether monogamous or polyamorous. That's to be expected I guess since almost all people do make decisions from that place. Making decisions not from culture, programming or reaction - how I see things - I haven't even been able to vaguely approach here and doubt that I will ever be able to.
I've come to doubt that I could affect anyone's perceptions as my ideas are too radical.
Radical? No offense, but you're not shaking the earth of at least me, and quite probably several others here.
There's other levels above and beyond the chakras you are talking about. Not that you don't have a point, but there are points beyond the ones you are making.
It always entertains me when I see young Western men struggling for freedom from the sexually-repressed, painfully self-denying paradigm of Western spirituality, only to end up berating themselves for losing semen during sleep/masturbation/sex, because it "weakens" them spiritually or physically. Meanwhile, a good raw paleo diet is far more powerful for health than trying and failing to retain semen.
Sure, there's a time and place for denial. But that time is not always, and the place is not everywhere. Common sense comes into play here, Dorothy, and, respectfully, I think sometimes your extremes take you outside of common sense. That's not an attack, just an observation. I myself am guilty of extremes in these areas as well. The difference is that I am, ultimately, for various reasons, more pragmatic, I think.
Again, that's not an attack, just an observation. Remember, you have to prove the things you say here. We are not, in many cases, as gullible/uninformed as the average person. We ARE, in many cases, especially the mods, jerky know-it-alls. However, that can be useful, because it takes a know-it-all to actually get to the truth, sometimes.
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Great post Cheri!
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I haven't made my personal viewpoint just bantered back and forth - nor am I going to in such an environment. How can you judge if they make common sense or not when the points were never made? That to me makes no common sense. You don't even have a CLUE what I think/feel/experience or my perspective yet you say nonsense about men losing semen - that has NOTHING at all to do with anything I was referring to. So what if men masturbate? I don't judge that. Do you? Why bring that up? Are you talking about another discussion I had explaining tantra to Adora? That's something completely different and only one way of looking at things and totally irrelevant.
This thread is a waste of my time/energy and continuing to converse with me over something not expressed is a waste of other people's time obviously since there is no interest or openness.
Attack all you will, or observe, make up things, twist my words into what you want them to mean or whatever you want to call it. I'd prefer it if you stopped though and just went on with your conversations without me without attacking, judging, observing any more.
If you want to continue, please know that I am not going to be reading it - so you can dis (dismiss, disrespect, disparage) me to everyone else instead if you like, but no more of this for me.
Thoth, I'm surprised. I thought you were an open-minded kind of person in general. :(
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Dorothy, what are your radical ideas?
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Sorry dorothy, any perceived slight was not.
I was actually specifically referring to the part about losing energy from orgasm, as far as I'm concerned that is utter bollocks (lol!) the universe is unlimited energy (especially if you buy what N. Haramein(sp?) is selling, that the entire universe is in each proton or whatever) and I've always found that claim a contradiction and absurdity. And like Cheri said, this diet goes a long way in providing people with ample if not excess energy, subtle or otherwise.
I respect you a lot dorothy and though I don't always agree (obviously, who does 100%) I always appreciate discussing with you!
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I like reading about radical ideas, so please share the radical ideas.
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Periodic Orgasm suppression can have some interesting effects. If one goes long enough without ejaculating you can become hyper sexually sensitive. Then when you do finally release, it can leave you with a loved up feeling that last all day.
I'm an advocate of developing a sexual rhythm in accordance with your partners cycles. During ovulation we may make love a couple times a day for three or four days, then take a couple day break, before entering into a medium drive cycle of sex every other day. Then during menstruation we often have a 4 to five day period with no sex. Every month the viscous cycle more or less repeats itself. This arrangement provides a fair amount of satisfaction without leading to sexual exhaustion.
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Yeah, and I'm not saying that suppression can't or doesn't have those effects, only that you are not 'blowing' your chi at orgasm, or if you are, you can actually redirect that energy back in to yourself, or in to where ever you want. But again, the universe is an infinite pool of energy, free for the tapping.
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Men have always been the ones who have held resources. It's our bargaining chip..
The point is that in paleo times most men held (or were able to procure) valuable material resources, not just a few or some men as in today´s capitalistic or class societies. If many or most men hold valuable material resources, women do have a broad choice between different men and therefore enjoy a fair amount of freedom in their choice (meaning they don´t have to look predominantly for material resources when it comes to mating, because almost every man is able to procure the material resources necessary for his children to survive and get a strong social position in their tribe). I would bet that there was much more social equality in paleo times than there is in today´s western societies. Just look at HGs!
Plenty of men have never had true sexual freedom as most have never procreated.
What gives you this idea? In my parents´, grandparents´ etc. generations, almost every man had at least two children.
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What is sex about to you guys? Dicks inside of Vaginas? Orgasms?
And I personally have found that money is just a means to new experiences. I think a lot of other people think that money will give them the means to experiences that will make them happy, when really its what you take from your experiences that make you happy (or sad). If you cant be hapy with nothing, then you're only going to be distracted from your unhappiness with everything.
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The invention of money has had a profound effect on human sexuality. It has changed our whole system of values. Money has become a virtue to be sought after at the expense of our obligations to personal relations. Money men will accumulate great wealth and attract worthy mates with promises of comfort and security, but in order for that man to maintain his wealth he will have to dedicate a much larger portion of his day to working away from his family than paleo man did. This skews the whole social dynamic, and in my opinion can lead to perversity.
I agree with Hana about how in paleo times there wasn't this great stratification of wealth, and so people chose mates based on more subtle humanistic qualities. Money materialism and freakanomics have in some ways already separated many people from their better natures, and have perverted the sexual selection process. The working poor, which constitute a great majority of modern industrial society, are especially afflicted, because they have to dedicate many hours of employment just to get by, while at the same time shipping their kids off to institutions to be made into productive workers. They simple haven't the time, wherewithal or guidance to develop into the kind of romantic, compassionate humanistic, sensualist that would be an ideal lover. So much real life living , loving, and learning falls by the wayside, in our service to money and machines.
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I haven't made my personal viewpoint just bantered back and forth - nor am I going to in such an environment. How can you judge if they make common sense or not when the points were never made? That to me makes no common sense. You don't even have a CLUE what I think/feel/experience or my perspective
Unless you say otherwise, your stuff just sounds like "old wine in new bottles". Quite frankly, you sound like someone with little awareness of other cultures.
Basically, you sound like a white-bread, suburban American who has a little secondhand experience, via books, of Eastern spirituality. OTOH, there are a number of cultures that practice polyamory, minimize pair-bonding, or have similar relationship systems.
Your world seems way smaller than the actual, factual one. That doesn't make you bad, but it doesn't put you in a position to make unfounded, unproven pronouncements, either, and expect to have them lauded.
I'm sincerely not trying to be mean, but you're just going to have to support what you assert. If that's asking too much...
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The point is that in paleo times most men held (or were able to procure) valuable material resources, not just a few or some men as in today´s capitalistic or class societies. If many or most men hold valuable material resources, women do have a broad choice between different men and therefore enjoy a fair amount of freedom in their choice (meaning they don´t have to look predominantly for material resources when it comes to mating, because almost every man is able to procure the material resources necessary for his children to survive and get a strong social position in their tribe). I would bet that there was much more social equality in paleo times than there is in today´s western societies. Just look at HGs!
What gives you this idea? In my parents´, grandparents´ etc. generations, almost every man had at least two children.
only 20% of men have passed on their genes and 80% of women. Some science article I read. Makes sense too.
How do you know their children were theirs? alpha for genes beta to bring home the bacon.
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I haven't made my personal viewpoint just bantered back and forth - nor am I going to in such an environment. How can you judge if they make common sense or not when the points were never made? That to me makes no common sense. You don't even have a CLUE what I think/feel/experience or my perspective yet you say nonsense about men losing semen - that has NOTHING at all to do with anything I was referring to. So what if men masturbate? I don't judge that. Do you? Why bring that up? Are you talking about another discussion I had explaining tantra to Adora? That's something completely different and only one way of looking at things and totally irrelevant.
This thread is a waste of my time/energy and continuing to converse with me over something not expressed is a waste of other people's time obviously since there is no interest or openness.
Attack all you will, or observe, make up things, twist my words into what you want them to mean or whatever you want to call it. I'd prefer it if you stopped though and just went on with your conversations without me without attacking, judging, observing any more.
If you want to continue, please know that I am not going to be reading it - so you can dis (dismiss, disrespect, disparage) me to everyone else instead if you like, but no more of this for me.
Thoth, I'm surprised. I thought you were an open-minded kind of person in general. :(
Why choose Buffy?
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wodgina, I am sure more than 20% of men manage to pass on their genes! This sounds like a load of rubbish :o
Regarding my own situation I am happy to say there are a number of factors that are improving relations between my wife and I, one important one is that I have changed from smoking your typical modern cannabis which just has THC, to a variety with significant (hopefully 50%) amounts of CBD. Frequent consumption of THC twisted my thoughts in many ways - such as ruminating on past 'learnings' (blaming wife for spending too much money), dreaming about inventions I don't need, and excessive thinking about sex - plus made me lazy & tired, and triggered junk food munchies. Now with the CBD balanced cannabis I feel more in the present, more energised and happy to learn and move on from negative past experiences, and most of all to be very thankful for what I have - family, home, friends, health, good job etc. Also I am now feeling that sex is really not all that important anyway - the best thing about sex has been creating my two children, and two is enough for me.
We have also been under a lot of financial pressure from a big earthquake 16 moths ago, and now that we can see our business will recover over the next year and start to make money rather than just spend it this is improving.
Plus raw paleo diet is giving me more physical and mental stamina so I am better able to contribute to my family.
The result is that I am happy and being nice to my wife and she is appreciative - she is starting to be happy with some physical contact, so I will most probably be getting lucky one of these days soon. I will go to the herbalist and see what they have to help increase her sexy hormones.
Dorothy - re your comment that my wife is probably staying late at the office to have an affair, well she doesn't work in an office and I am definite that she really just doesn't care for sex at the moment. She has periodic best friends, and the last two were women where after daily intense phone calls discussing their common animal breeding and showing obsessions the friendships exploded. She now has a male best friend and they often spend time together discussing business, or she goes to his place for dinner, chat and drinks with his half dozen mostly male international travellers staying with him. When on THC I would get really paranoid when she stayed out late that she was screwing him, or would crash while driving home drunk, but now I see both of these are very unlikely as she doesn't like him that way and is careful to get sober enough to drive, and is a slow careful driver.
GS - the community I mentioned were a bunch of drop-out stoners, so that would go some way to explaining what was going on there (too much THC)!
Next step = stop watching internet porn!
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Alive? really?
anyways I was wrong it's 40% of Males 80% of females historically. Makes you wonder why we busted our arses as working bees when we could of fought back, or sat on the couch playing video games or go surfing.
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I like your avitar wodgina, that looks like fun - do you kayak?
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yep a a lot. Some nice paddling around your area I have been thinking about doing the Coast to Coast.
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So if I am now chatting to wodgina off M vs P topic is it better to send him a personal message or to start a new subject in off topic?
wodgina - you must be fit. My wife and I did the two day individuals coast to coast about 14 years ago, before children. The Wiamakarari river is a fun paddle, especially the gorge where the pressure waves and eddies add to interest. Its a very beautiful environment.
Do you prefer racing, sea, or white water kayaking?
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Of course you know you are currently off topic then you find a smooth way to get back on topic. :)
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So I guess my question is... What is the purpose of having children?
and GS, are you saying that If a millionaire came up to your wife and say 'Hey missy, bring you and your children and come live with me in my castle forever', you would come home to find your wife packing her things?
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So I guess my question is... What is the purpose of having children?
In my POV, the purpose of life is to make more life. Life must go on. I'm not into religious reasons.
Reproduction is a sign of life. No reproduction, no life, no future.
and GS, are you saying that If a millionaire came up to your wife and say 'Hey missy, bring you and your children and come live with me in my castle forever', you would come home to find your wife packing her things?
My wife? You never can tell. Who knows, maybe she's got a boyfriend right now and getting contraceptively laid? I wouldn't know unless I hire a private eye.
Right now she's too busy with her new career.
She's got her religious thing going for her and her family right now.
I have seen that happen with the wife of our old company driver. The wife packed up and left her husband and 4 children and ran away with her Korean boyfriend.
I have a sister in law who's mother turned into a nympho maniac after a ligation. She packed up and left her husband and 12 children and ran off with a new boyfriend.
Strange things happen all the time.
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it's 40% of Males 80% of females historically.
How did they find out? Could you provide a link?
Makes you wonder why we busted our arses as working bees when we could of fought back, or sat on the couch playing video games or go surfing.
I don´t understand (because of my language problems?). Fight back against whom?
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German sexual behaviour survey made by condom maker
http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,1149931,00.html (http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,1149931,00.html)
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Hey wodgina, why don´t you answer? Please, where did you read/hear about these 80% versus 40% who passed their genes?
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Hey wodgina, why don´t you answer? Please, where did you read/hear about these 80% versus 40% who passed their genes?
http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/20/is-there-anything-good-about-men-and-other-tricky-questions/ (http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/20/is-there-anything-good-about-men-and-other-tricky-questions/)
there you go. This is where I read it.
Here is another article (a bit off subject) however shows two different mating strategies. Two women in similiar circumstances...one chose the alpha bad boy one chose the beta provider. Two different mating strategies with two different outcomes. The beta provider is paying for the alpha's children as well (welfare). The bad boy will probably have more kids.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/us/two-classes-in-america-divided-by-i-do.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/us/two-classes-in-america-divided-by-i-do.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all)
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Noooooo!
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http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/20/is-there-anything-good-about-men-and-other-tricky-questions/ (http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/20/is-there-anything-good-about-men-and-other-tricky-questions/)
there you go. This is where I read it.
Here is another article (a bit off subject) however shows two different mating strategies. Two women in similiar circumstances...one chose the alpha bad boy one chose the beta provider. Two different mating strategies with two different outcomes. The beta provider is paying for the alpha's children as well (welfare). The bad boy will probably have more kids.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/us/two-classes-in-america-divided-by-i-do.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/us/two-classes-in-america-divided-by-i-do.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all)
It seems you are ready to reproduce, Wodg... Go for it.
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Noooooo!
Hey, you edited out your very nice point of view!
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It seems you are ready to reproduce, Wodg... Go for it.
nah just sick of paying for other peoples
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nah just sick of paying for other peoples
Well, wodgina, the lucky bastard, is certainly in a position to accumulate more wealth given this article which describes the only region in the world not somehow affected by the current economic crises:-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/mining/9402710/Australian-mining-boom-generates-huge-wealth.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/mining/9402710/Australian-mining-boom-generates-huge-wealth.html)
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It's weird. I remember being poor...this place has changed.
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Thanks wodgina!
Hey, you edited out your very nice point of view!
Which point of view? Neone, could you please repeat it?