Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Health => Topic started by: Aura on June 24, 2013, 12:14:41 am
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hi guys, I have recently been on a 08 day almost dry fast and now currently refeeding.
People here got me to hospital and there, for 04 days, they injected me with ph intravenous solution, sinthetic vitamins, even freaking antibiotics and painkillers, without even asking for my consent.
One morning the nurse comes to inject antibiotics and I suddenly wake up and say loud: what´s that? Antibiotic? No way you are injecting me with it!
Anyway, I am kind of concerned about this process, like.. during the fast (prior to the hospital) I did not experience any kind of detox whatsoever. I was pretty fine, not even hungry or thirsty and had decent energy.
I am weaker now I am eating.. ???
What are your experience with fasting and what should I expect or do to cleanse from those chems? Not another fast, please :)
I was wondering maybe dairy (milk) would help but will it be efficient even though several days have passed?
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Aura, could you give us more information as to what led you be into the hospital, and why were you dry fasting? But for now, I wouldn't worry about chemicals from the hospital. You're first priority should be just balancing your body out,, eating lightly and in whatever balance means for you.
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Hi Van,
thanks for your reply!
Basically, I ate 3 pretty old nuts one evening and the day after I got sharp pain into my abdomen and stomach.
I was super bloated and could not find a way to release gases naturally.
I thought of fasting hoping a possible inflammation to cease but did not work.
People here got scared because I was refusing food and drinking very very little water but anyway, docs at the hospital just gave me a cocktail of poisons without knowing what they were to treat..
Got poisoned for free. l)
Good advices!
Im on fruit. Watermelon, mango and papaya.
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Ok, well hopefully you can put it behind you, and let your body relax and normalize from the experience. Time/or the body heals if you let it
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Good heavens! I was alarmed by the title of this thread and my fears were realized by the contents. Who gave you the idea that an 8-day almost-dry fast would be therapeutic instead of destructive? That's one of the most stressful-sounding therapies I've heard of. Some of the worst reports of health damage, and even death, I've seen have been attributed to extreme/excessive fasting. I'm sorry you went through that. Even misguided fasters on raw vegan forums tend to recommend drinking juice or water or eating the occasional watery fruit during a fast (such as what they call a "juice fast" or a "juice feast").
"long fasts can lead to muscle loss and impaired immune function" http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/paul-jaminets-response-to-the-critics-of-his-safe-starches-concept/11920 (http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/paul-jaminets-response-to-the-critics-of-his-safe-starches-concept/11920)
One can reportedly get the benefits of fasting without going to such damaging extremes:
"Fasting, by inducing resource scarcity, promotes autophagy. Scarcity of amino acids, which can be achieved by a protein restricted diet, also promotes autophagy. And ketosis, which is part of the metabolic profile of starvation, also promotes autophagy.
Note in my section heading the shared word: “intermittent.” We don’t want to sustain fasts or protein scarcity too long; that could create malnourishment and cause more harm than good. Permanent ketosis may promote fungal infections. The most helpful course is probably to follow these strategies intermittently:
Engage in daily intermittent fasting: eat only within a 6 to 8 hour window each day. Within the fasting period, eat some coconut oil or MCT oil to promote ketosis.
Eat high protein for a few weeks while engaging in resistance exercise to build muscle; then low protein for a few weeks." http://perfecthealthdiet.com/category/disease/cancer/ (http://perfecthealthdiet.com/category/disease/cancer/)
For intermittent autophagy fasting I instead use liquids plus raw fats like centrifuged coconut oil, raw egg yolks, pastured butter, raw suet, or a combo. Medium chain fats reportedly most promote ketosis, which is why coconut fats tend to get recommended.
But the idea with intermittent fasting isn't to skip meals and starve yourself so as to limit your total calorie intake, but rather to defer a meal or three to get the physical benefits of fasting without the calorie deficit. For example, after you fast one day, eat double the next day to make up for it, or half-again as much the next two days, or whatever it takes to sate your hunger. If you're ravenous after a workout, eat. If you're suddenly hungry between meals, snack. Mental Clarity
December 27, 2007 04:15 PM
http://www.arthurdevany.com/2007/12/mental_clarity.html (http://www.arthurdevany.com/2007/12/mental_clarity.html)
In our book we discuss the benefits of intermittent fasting – it promotes autophagy, which extends lifespan and protects us against bacteria and viruses – but we don’t discuss whether feasting has any merits.
While there has been no real scientific study of feasting (except in the context of every-other-day implementations of intermittent fasting), feasting has been a hot topic in the Paleo blogosphere lately:
Martin Berkhan’s Leangains approach features intermittent fasting punctuated by occasional feast days.
Matt Stone’s 180-Degree Health approach is based on periodic overfeeding.
Coincidentally, Chris Masterjohn today offers us a review of Tim Ferriss’s new book, The 4-Hour Body.
For weight loss, Ferriss recommends intermittent fasting and feasting:
His fat-loss regimen sticks to a five-rule “Slow-Carb Diet” six days a week, but on the seventh day he resteth. This is the day for “reverse Lent,” otherwise known as bingeing on whatever the heck you want. In fact, Ferriss considers overfeeding one day a week to be a critical component of his fat loss regimen because of its effects on metabolism-boosting hormones.
In this respect he seems to have come to conclusions similar to those of Ori Hofmekler of Warrior Diet fame, who advocates fasting in the day and overfeeding in the night, and Matt Stone, whose High-Everything Diet uses overfeeding as its very lifeblood.
Stone recently told Jimmy Moore that one of the issues he’s still trying to tweak with his diet is to get rid of the initial gain in weight. Tim Ferriss may have solved that problem with his version of overfeeding, as folks on his diet usually gain weight on overfeeding day but nevertheless experience a net loss of several pounds per week from the very beginning.
So add Ferris to the group of self-experimenters who find benefits from occasional feasting.
Chris also discusses protein restriction:
Ferriss notes that periodic fasting from protein induces a process called autophagy, wherein the cell cleans out its mishandled, degraded, and aggregated proteins that otherwise accumulate. This is consistent with my experience. I had developed a problem with small wart-like risings on my hands and fingers at one point. Complete fasting for two weeks helped somewhat, but going vegan for two weeks made them completely disappear. The problem has never come back, despite my regular sumptuous feasting on animal foods of all kinds.
Perhaps protein cycling provides an answer to the question I had raised in The Curious Case of Campbell’s Rats. Namely, is there an intermediate intake of protein that maximally protects against cancer, toxicity, and fatty liver under all conditions? Perhaps the answer is not an intermediate intake of protein, but a periodic cycling of protein intake.
We note in our book (and this blog post) that protein restriction, even if calories are not restricted at all, promotes autophagy and therefore intracellular immunity and longevity. So we’re happy to endorse protein restriction.
But high intake of protein, especially of ketogenic branched-chain amino acids like leucine, does promote muscle synthesis. So what is a bodybuilder or athlete, who seeks the greatest possible muscle growth, to do? Is there an inevitable conflict between athleticism and longevity?
It’s possible that protein cycling – say, a week of protein restriction followed by a week of high-protein intake – might help resolve the dilemma, providing 80% of the longevity and health benefits of protein restriction and 80% of the muscle synthesis benefits of high-protein diets.
If so, Art de Vany would not be surprised.
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/12/two-art-de-vany-related-ideas/ (http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/12/two-art-de-vany-related-ideas/)
I'm glad you are done with fasting and feeling up to eating. If you are feeling well and your appetite invigorated, then presumably now is the time for feasting, hooray!
Intermittent feasting can also be beneficial, along with intermittent fasting. They are the two ends of the same hormetic range.
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Aura, dry fasting is a VERY serious procedure. I did several three days, once 5 days and once 6 days full dry fast. That was the toughest one! Especially with my underweight (no fat at all).
But what you did had no sens at all! If one gets the problems like yours one must help his body to detox it means liquid as much as possible, better from all the ends :). You better water fast to eliminate by-products from yr body and then switch to revive yr micro-flora in the guts with all possible means.
The right fasting (water or even dry in exceptional case) is a powerful healer or let's say helper for yr body. The wrong one could be disaster! In this case PaleoPhil is right. Even more dangerous to be in the hand of "normal" doctors to brake the fasting!
Be careful next time, good luck and good recovery...
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Aura,
Like Phil said, fasting without liquid is a bad idea. The liquid serves to clean out the GI tract. Having liquids simply washes it. Some liquids are better than others.
RomanK,
If you have no body fat I guess you have figured it out that fasting is not a great idea.
Fasting would be OK for someone with an excess of body fat or chronic illnesses not associated with emaciation
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PaleoPhil, I am super grateful for your infos about fasting. Gave me new insights.
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Aura, dry fasting is a VERY serious procedure. I did several three days, once 5 days and once 6 days full dry fast. That was the toughest one! Especially with my underweight (no fat at all).
But what you did had no sens at all! If one gets the problems like yours one must help his body to detox it means liquid as much as possible, better from all the ends :). You better water fast to eliminate by-products from yr body and then switch to revive yr micro-flora in the guts with all possible means.
The right fasting (water or even dry in exceptional case) is a powerful healer or let's say helper for yr body. The wrong one could be disaster! In this case PaleoPhil is right. Even more dangerous to be in the hand of "normal" doctors to brake the fasting!
Be careful next time, good luck and good recovery...
RomanK, I did not specifically wanted to DRY fast. It just happened because I was so bloated I could not fit anything into my stomach... -[
But, yeah, I let my body dictate shutting the mind down, not thinking too much about the muscle and fat loss.
I was slightly underweight before the fast and now I am skinnier than ever. Not even when I starved in Kenya.
I am strenghtening everyday but I am dehydrated (popping ears) and my heart beats fast as I move too much..
I tried to eat 2 raw yolks but did not sit well in my system.. :'(
Fruit diet works well for me at the moment. Wonderful bms.
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Fruit diet is good, IMHO, for cleansing purpose. But it is temporary decision.
Normally, dry fast is broken with protein liquid like lactoserum from sour milk or fish broth (self made of course).
It looks like GAPS diet might be good for you. http://gapsdiet.com/INTRODUCTION_DIET.html (http://gapsdiet.com/INTRODUCTION_DIET.html) It is not raw but who care? You need health in yr guts not label...
If you clean through yr guts with fruits, make introduction gaps, populate yr guts with good guys, you sould be ok.
Another stuff that might be good for you is Lactulose. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactulose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactulose) This is artificial sugar which is good just for right sort of biofilm! It is positioned like laxative but it is its side effect! You said that you were stuffed with antibiotics. Lactulose is yr help! Because it is used for disbacteriosis!
It costs like 15 bucks for half ltr. Take it for couple of wks. See what happens :). Even with yr fruit diet it should be great :).
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My pleasure Aura.
Fast heart beats, inability to eat and recent period of starvation all suggest chronic stress and your body going into survival mode.