Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Hot Topics => Topic started by: raw-al on February 07, 2014, 04:53:04 am
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I have no horse in this race BTW, as I am not a consumer of any consciousness changing chemistry. I also am not a believer in making marijuana illegal, however, here is a short, interesting article by a man who does lots of brain scans in his clinics. (70,000 or so)
http://www.amenclinics.com/dr-amen/blog/2014/02/marijuana-causes-long-term-brain-changes?inf_contact_key=2619fe9020c3b9fd85cc98eb3327976041ec44fd79edb467d807ddedc6e2773f (http://www.amenclinics.com/dr-amen/blog/2014/02/marijuana-causes-long-term-brain-changes?inf_contact_key=2619fe9020c3b9fd85cc98eb3327976041ec44fd79edb467d807ddedc6e2773f)
What think ye?
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Brain Pollution and the Real Reason You Shouldn’t Use Drugs (http://www.amenclinics.com/index.php/the-science/spect-gallery/item/alcohol-and-drug-abuse?category_id=129#alchA1)
The above page is fine and truthful. But I have a reservation about the following paragraph in the other page, the one you linked:
Some argue that marijuana is not addictive, but as this study demonstrates, it is a drug like any other. Anything that makes us feel good—be it food, drugs, alcohol, exercise, gambling, or sex—causes a rewiring of the pleasure centers in the brain and intensifies cravings for it.
He seems to put in the same box “food, drugs, alcohol, exercise, gambling, or sex”. But implying that having normal food (raw paleo), normal sexuality and exercise are addictive is a mistake because these activities have no adverse consequences: on the contrary they are beneficial.
Once again, it makes no sense to use the word "addicted" in such a case. Is it an "addiction" to breath? To drink water when thirsty?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction)
Addiction is the continued repetition of a behavior despite adverse consequences,[1] or a neurological impairment leading to such behaviors.[2]
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Could be that these brains aren't able to utilize the changes because they don't have the proper nutrients to enable rewiring :D
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Brain Pollution and the Real Reason You Shouldn’t Use Drugs (http://www.amenclinics.com/index.php/the-science/spect-gallery/item/alcohol-and-drug-abuse?category_id=129#alchA1)
The above page is fine and truthful. But I have a reservation about the following paragraph in the other page, the one you linked: He seems to put in the same box “food, drugs, alcohol, exercise, gambling, or sex”. But implying that having normal food (raw paleo), normal sexuality and exercise are addictive is a mistake because these activities have no adverse consequences: on the contrary they are beneficial.
I generally agree with a lot of what Dr. Amen says, but you are right in your assessment. I mean ya gotta eat.... HIs wife has written a book which is on a weight loss by vegan lifestyle, so that's her opinion, which I don't share. Some of the PPL he deals with are on a diet in which anything would be better than the status quo.
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Well, I have gone through stages where I got addicted to eating rawpalaeo foods in too large amounts. Not any more, though. I now just eat for nutrients.
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He seems to put in the same box “food, drugs, alcohol, exercise, gambling, or sex”. But implying that having normal food (raw paleo), normal sexuality and exercise are addictive is a mistake because these activities have no adverse consequences: on the contrary they are beneficial.
I personally like that paragraph quite a bit, instead. I agree with it.
I think that even "normal food" can be addictive. Things like raw meat not that likely, but fruit very easily. But anyway I doubt they were thinking of "raw paleo" when talking about "food".
So can be sex and even exercise, potentially.
Of course they are not in the same ballgame with drugs and the likes of, but I'd have a hard time going against:
"Anything that makes us feel good, causes a rewiring of the pleasure centers in the brain and intensifies cravings for it."
More or less.
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Like many other words in the lexicon, addiction has more than one connotation. In a formal, clinical sense, "the continued repetition of a behavior despite adverse consequences, or a neurological impairment leading to such behaviors" (cited from Wikipedia below) is a good definition. There is a lot of supportive research that studies the neurological impairment. A good book that details this information is Gabor Mate's In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts: Close Encounters with Addiction.
In informal usage, it can mean anything.
And, of course, the meanings can overlap.
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Eve,
Of course this is why two Drs can come to completely different conclusions regarding a patient.
Fact of the matter is that if you go in for an assessment a Dr is fishing for business. That's normal human behaviour to a certain degree.
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Well, I have gone through stages where I got addicted to eating rawpalaeo foods in too large amounts.
Yes, me too. But this is the result of abnormal situations, such as loneliness, dissatisfaction in our lives, lack of sexual loving relations or failed love relationship, boredom, etc. which would not have commonly happened in a tribe.
Gluttony doesn’t exist in normal, natural (raw paleo) situations. It’s rather the expression of our dietary instinct.
I personally like that paragraph quite a bit, instead. I agree with it.
I think that even "normal food" can be addictive. Things like raw meat not that likely, but fruit very easily. But anyway I doubt they were thinking of "raw paleo" when talking about "food". So can be sex and even exercise, potentially.
Of course they are not in the same ballgame with drugs and the likes of, but I'd have a hard time going against:
"Anything that makes us feel good, causes a rewiring of the pleasure centers in the brain and intensifies cravings for it."
More or less.
Yes, he wasn’t thinking about raw paleo in writing that paragraph and he’s of course in the ubiquitous current paradigm that something can taste good while being bad for our health. But this contradiction — which impregnate our whole culture and society in almost every aspect — falls with the instinctive raw paleo diet. Unprocessed wild foods either taste bad and are noxious or taste good and are beneficial.
No, we can eat too much of domestic animal meats such as beef and lamb, as well as we can eat to much of cultivated fruits. This doesn’t happen with unprocessed, unmixed wild foods.
The paradox that sometimes good = bad or bad = good doesn’t exist in natural conditions: if it had been prevalent, animal life on this planet wouldn’t have flourished and we wouldn’t be here.
Think about it, guys. The consequences in all social sciences and even in philosophy (ethics) are tremendous. We finally have a coherent ethic, based on facts. It’s an awesome fundamental revolution!
An outstanding professor of philosophy told us about GCB : “ If our civilization survives, I think he’ll be recognized in the future as one of the greatest thinker of history”.
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Could be that these brains aren't able to utilize the changes because they don't have the proper nutrients to enable rewiring :D
Yes, it could be that a lack of proper nutrients and a constant influx of organic molecules spoiled by heat hinders healing. Some damages are probably irreversible, but some may be reversible. At least, with an instinctively governed paleo diet and a proper lifestyle, the best healing chances are provided.
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Smoking is cooking... just so you knew...
If you cannot do something creative, or any similarly demanding mental activity, without getting "high" you aren't doing it right in the first place.
Being sober is a far better state of such productivity. (Based on some posts in a writers forum a few years ago. Apparently there were those who'd "tested" it or just noticed being high is inferior. That while you are high you think you are that good, as if the best ever, but when being sober and you compare yourself to your "high" self you see it is not true at all.)
Isn't it supposed to be about you being in control while producing something?
Those 10 potheads.... they all have the same melted looking face, like something's not exactly right... faces like they generally don't care, or they are incapable of caring "the right way"... something's not right with their brains, with their minds...
As well, in true reality, money does not determine "success". What is success, do you know? If you have lots of money it's most likely because you are that good a liar and deceiver and obsessed with money in the first place.
If you cannot do without smoking such crap there is something seriously wrong with you. Probably began from you not having "found yourself", nor knowing "what life is", what truly matters. You know, the simple things.
Does smoking pot make you more acceptive of matters that should be criticized? More forgiving of wrongs? And more "hugging" of good news, and less "hugging" of big good news? Like balancing it all out? Would explain all the pothead (fatal) accidents (suicides)... you simply lose track of true reality, you lose the sense of "right and wrong". Brain damage.
Seems to me like smoking pot makes one's mind more numb in general, in every direction (based on all I've heard and read about it). Like sharpness is destroyed and no matter the good news they're always similar of strength, as if a small good news is the same as a big one. There was another one here who admitted doing drugs and... my my, what a not coincidence, exhibited the exact same quality/tone you do. Your senses, mind, perceptions are numbed and softened. You really should not be glad and happy about such influence, because it is damage, brain damage. Reading your posts is like seeing a person who has partially shut the senses to reality, like you want to avoid and ignore something - the sharpness, like you just want to just slide through it all.
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I banned Evil Eye and removed his post, the one to which you respond. We don't want drug addicts here.
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Err, Iguana, this sort of banning should not have happened until you had mentioned the poster on the moderators forum. Instant banning is only considered OK if the person is deliberately trolling and insulting rawpalaeodieters or the rawpaleodiet in general.
We have had one or two posters in the past who have admitted to using dope relatively regularly. They did not cause any trouble and their posts were sometimes of interest. So I do not think we can just exclude dope-users automatically without cause.
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Sorry, but his posts showed that he is a real troll. I routinely ban several spammers every morning and remove their posts, which takes some time and becomes really annoying. These ones were of the same class and went away along.
PS: I unbanned him, so he can post again.
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Its not irreversible if you are in good health. I think the only issue is when it becomes habitual or something you rely on to produce a certain state, instead of something that just introduces you to that state. I also think that it is important to be aware of how you are taking marijuana, as with any other herb or substance you are putting in your body. its quality, strain and how and by whom it was grown are all important factors as well as if you intend to smoke it, ingest it, vaporize it, tincture it, use as a salve, use as a soap, use as a fiber, use as a fodder.....
I think its a pity to be absolute about anything without considering the user, their mental, physical and emotional health and lifestyle, their intentions for use, the plant, its quality, how you take it, etcetcetc.
I do think that the way we use these substances in our society is definitely destructive, but that is just a product of our times. I mean, we use corn, soy and wheat to our own demise, so its no wonder we have absolutely no respect and no idea how to use these other plants in a beneficial way. I don't think that marijuana, opium, coca plants or mushrooms are intrinsically evil, we are the misusers and abuser, not the plants. they have lessons for us in that, and they have greater lessons for us when we respect them too. those lessons can be reaped by respectfully using them internally when they are the most appropriate medicine for mind, body or soul, or just respecting them externally and allowing them to flourish and heal environments and have their other beneficial uses like all plants do.
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Isn't it supposed to be about you being in control while producing something?
humans having the illusions of "control" while "producing" things is the whole issue here, lol. there are certain plant teachers that can totally smash that illusion and reframe life in a much more dynamic way, there are paths to walk spiritually that will get you to the same place, but most people are so shut down and so insecure and in need of control that they will never even allow themselves to step one food down that path.
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Could be that these brains aren't able to utilize the changes because they don't have the proper nutrients to enable rewiring :D
Could also be that long term marijuana use disrupts the body's normal endocannabinoid function.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocannabinoid_system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocannabinoid_system) - Article with information on the body's endocannabinoid system.
http://headsup.scholastic.com/articles/endocannabinoid (http://headsup.scholastic.com/articles/endocannabinoid)
"How Does THC Affect the EC System and Behavior?
When a person smokes marijuana, THC overwhelms the EC system, quickly attaching to cannabinoid receptors throughout the brain and body. This interferes with the ability of natural cannabinoids to do their job of fine-tuning communication between neurons, which can throw the entire system off balance."
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troll i am not.
so i get banned and un banned in between posts .. wow.. and you remove a few of my posts as well..
cannabis isn't a drug... and it helps cancer patients .. if you are anti weed you are pro cancer ...
get off your high horse.
im all set with this place.. good luck guys.
i have read most of your posts iguana.. i am not a troll. but as far as me responding any more.. i am done. i wont waste my time putting my thoughts into a post.. just to have someone censor me. that is unacceptable.
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Being an administrator is a thankless job. You read a ton of garbage and filter it out before the others read it. This can tend to bring out cynicism.
Evil,
If you want to discuss your topic, giving up is your loss as well as ours. High horses are are in the eye of the beholder.
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Thanks, raw-al.
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cannibus isnt a drug... and it helps cancer patients .. if you are anti weed you are pro cancer ...
This is an excuse for yourself to not stop using... After all, you are generalizing from one insignificant point that probably isn't even true in the first place, and if is true through some "miracle" it isn't anywhere near the whole truth. And you take this as the absolute indicator. Speaks for itself really... a six letter word.
Intoxicant, drug, little difference. Messes with the body and mind either way.
Helps cancer patients? And those patients got cancer why exactly? I assure you, it had nothing to do with not smoking pot. And the cure has nothing to do with smoking pot. Not even the raw variant. Using it makes ones mind numb, "cuts the edges", makes one "happier", as a result reduces stress which is a strong catalyst for health problems. You literally become incapable of normal sharpness of perception of yourself and your surroundings and others.
If you smoke, in general. Or use any substances like this. Do it privately, without anyone seeing it, and never tell others it is good and okay. Because smoking and using such substances is bad. You speaking out as you do, as if they are good and okay, are propagating a mentality without awareness to harm and damage they cause. People unaware and not knowing enough might take notice of your sayings and comments of denial.
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This is an excuse for yourself to not stop using... After all, you are generalizing from one insignificant point that probably isn't even true in the first place, and if is true through some "miracle" it isn't anywhere near the whole truth. And you take this as the absolute indicator. Speaks for itself really... a six letter word.
Intoxicant, drug, little difference. Messes with the body and mind either way.
Helps cancer patients? And those patients got cancer why exactly? I assure you, it had nothing to do with not smoking pot. And the cure has nothing to do with smoking pot. Not even the raw variant. Using it makes ones mind numb, "cuts the edges", makes one "happier", as a result reduces stress which is a strong catalyst for health problems. You literally become incapable of normal sharpness of perception of yourself and your surroundings and others.
If you smoke, in general. Or use any substances like this. Do it privately, without anyone seeing it, and never tell others it is good and okay. Because smoking and using such substances is bad. You speaking out as you do, as if they are good and okay, are propagating a mentality without awareness to harm and damage they cause. People unaware and not knowing enough might take notice of your sayings and comments of denial.
A round of applause to you Nummi. Very well said.
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Iguana,
You and all the rest of the admins deserve that and more. We're the ones that should be thanking.
Nummi and DB88,
I hear you and understand where you are coming from. Marijuana is useful as a cure or certainly containing cancer. This is a fact. Prior to it's prohibition it was contained in a huge amount of medicinals. However having said that, Coca Cola (cocaine etc) and Pepsi were too, and cocaine, heroin alcohol, raw petroleum (John D. Rockefella's father sold it as a cancer cure) and heaven knows what else....
However smoking pot ain't gonna stop you from getting cancer.... probably long term use of it would beat down your immunity to the point of possibly getting it or something else.
Using MJ recreational is a waste of life IMO. I experimented with it years ago as I did with alcohol etc. However for some PPL it is their choice and I say go for it, find out what you need to know. I don't think it should be illegal as that is all about politics and money with big pharma, cotton and synthetics manufacturers etc. Us taxpayers pay for this stupid law in the millions or billions both in law enforcement and incarceration.
I am rooting for it's legalization.
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Marijuana is useful as a cure
More like a temporary relieving symptoms. Just like any other drug out there, synthetic or non. There is not a single drug including cannabis that can really cure any degenerative diseases.
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Cannabis can cure cancer. Prove it to be otherwise I say. Many PPL have been cured by it.
It is quite humorous that you added a caveat "single drug". That is the problem with Allopathy, it is based on the pipe-dream that drugs need to be quantified, reduced to the 'single miracle active ingredient'. It's an old marketing myth invented and perpetuated by a bunch of "hoods" in the Allopathic legal and marketing departments. They are very good at creative lying.
There is a boatload of "alternative" methods/machines/herbs that quite handily give the boot to cancer.
As opposed to chemo f'ristance which is still listed as "experimental" because it's rate of "cure is something like 2.1% past the 5 year mark. You have to sign a release indicating that you understand it is an 'experimental drug' when you take it to absolve the drug companies of any liability. Still "experimental" yet in use over a hundred years and a pathetic success rate. How do you spell M O N E Y.
Cancer physicians know that if they allow any other methods/cures in they will be job hunting and the drug companies will be run out of town.
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Wait, DaBoss, are you trying to tell me that you believe the mind and thought processes are not malleable and cannot be restructured with proper nutritional balancing upon cessation of habits that take them out of what is considered the "norm"?
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Wait, DaBoss, are you trying to tell me that you believe the mind and thought processes are not malleable and cannot be restructured with proper nutritional balancing upon cessation of habits that take them out of what is considered the "norm"?
There's nutritional balancing and modifying the mind and thought processes, but marijuana use isn't something that contributes to that process. Discontinuing marijuana and then working on nutritional balancing is a different story - sure you could quit using drugs and potentially repair the damage done, and even be better off than you were before using said substances. Possibly you could even still use marijuana, and perhaps have the damage being done be less than that of someone with a less healthy lifestyle. But the take away is that marijuana use disrupts the body's normal endocannabinoid function.
That being said, I still support legalization because I'm pro freedom. If someone wants to smoke pot, or anything else, provided they're not causing others harm (though they may be causing harm to themselves) then I think it's better legal.
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I'm a cannabis user who gets a lot of benefit and joy out of it. It's too bad that a lot of people he are coming from a place of ignorance about it. It's understandable, in a sense, because all drugs are abused in our ridiculous. People overuse everything, including weed, and when you overuse it, it can have a negative effect that causes stereotypical laziness (though it still doesn't cause physical harm). I take two or three hits a day, and it adds a wonderful spiritual dimension to my life, inspires me creatively, and is very beneficial to meditation. It also opens up that "third eye" and helps me see the effect of food on my consciousness. I also sleep better, and don't have the low-level depression that I used to. On the contrary, life is very joyous when you respectfully use plant allies such as cannabis. Another amazing one is ayahuasca. People who are on a spiritual path should really try this stuff; you have no idea how profoundly healing it is without trying it, but almost everyone who tries it has a life-changing experience for the better. These substances used properly seem to carry a theme of getting in touch with our true nature and with the Earth. Good-quality cannabis really brings nature to life, and it helps you laugh. It's medicinal qualities are incredible. More and more is coming out about its medicinal benefits (for epilepsy, multiple sclerosis, glaucoma, chronic pain, and some cancers, yes).
The fact that we have a natural endocannabinoid system in our brains is evidence that we SHOULD be using cannabis. Cannabis fits perfectly into receptors that exist in our brains; the endocannabioid system is very fundamental to our moods and happiness. That's why people like weed so much! It's also being studied as a treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder. There's a lot of benefit to conscious use of this stuff as a plant medicine, not a "drug." The notion of lumping all "drugs" together is a product of our whacked out society and this ridiculous "War on Drugs." Cannabis has no relation to cocaine; in fact, they're more like opposites. And cannabis is incredibly physically benign. Sure, you can get psychologically addicted to anything, but weed has no physical addiction; even if you use it heavily, if you stop, you won't get withdrawal symptoms. This is unlike even caffeine, which has physical withdrawal symptoms associated with it (coffee- now there's a spiritually destructive drug in our society). Weed has also never killed anyone in all of history. That's indicative of it's safety.
We're in a time right now in history when society is taking another look at marijuana. I really urge every to do that. Sanjay Gupta of CNN is a doctor who was originally opposed to marijuana- until he actually looked at the scientific evidence. Now he's a public champion of it's medical use. Check out his two CNN segments that a re up on youtube: "Weed" and "Weed." I wish everyone would take some time to look at the evidence and re-think your knowledge and position on cannabis. If you've never tried it, or haven't in ten years, why not try it? The key is to use it very moderately. The pothead culture of smoking "blunts to your head" gives this plant a bad name. I literally take exactly one hit at a time. If you've never enjoyed a simple weed high- you're missing out on one of the more beautiful, mentally healthy, and fun experiences of life.
I'm glad to see people supporting legalization of weed on a pro-freedom basis. Honestly, I don't think people should be going to prison for ANY drugs. Drugs should be a public health issue, not a criminal justice issue. We should be using public tax money to fund research and education and treatment, not prisons. Portugal decriminalized all drugs in 2002, and they've seen a drop in violent crime and teen addiction. It's time to end the "War on Drugs" and progress to a more compassionate and healthy approach to the entire issue.
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Btw, here's the Sanjay Gupta program about medical cannabis.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hrVXRZY1_x0 (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hrVXRZY1_x0)
And here's the sequel:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a2SpiaHJ41g (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a2SpiaHJ41g)
And here's a fantastic short independent documentary called "What if Cannabis Cured Cancer?" It's about recent medical marijuana research coming out of Spain and Israel.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-jWWVtS2gEg (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-jWWVtS2gEg)
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"The fact that we have a natural endocannabinoid system in our brains is evidence that we SHOULD be using cannabis. "
no body SHOULD be doing anything.
Really, we have all types of receptors, those in our lymph that are compatible with amanita mushrooms, and also opioid receptors, but does that mean we should always be shrooming or smoking opium or shooting up?
No way, its just proof we can, not should.
Only when mind and body have been balanced with diet, environment and to a certain extent lifestyle and spirituality. When we have oriented these basics towards healing and optimal health, and perhaps need healing that we cannot overcome with them alone, then we look towards other plant/earth medicines to bring us to a different state of healing.
But remember healing is dynamic, so staying with healing herbs or earth medicines after that hump in healing is surpassed does not seem to be wise. I am pretty sure the purpose of medicines is that you use them so you heal and don't need to use them, if you are being wise to insure that all of the other areas of your life are coming into appropriate balance.
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I support peoples freedom and agree this needs to be a health issue. Personally it didn't work well for me - tired dreamy munchies withdrawal depression :'(
Also science has shown that the main side effect of smoking is an increase in stupidity, which takes around a month to wear off after the last smoke.
The only way we 'should' be consuming it is as raw juice, especially the 50% CBD / THC variety as validated by William Courtney (youtube leaf).