Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sorentus on March 09, 2014, 03:31:06 am
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I read that muscle meat lacks gelatin which is very healing and soothing for a damaged gut, but apparently you can only get gelatin from cooking broth?
I wonder if it's possible to get raw gelatin any tips? I would really like to try gelatin and avoid the cooked supplements even from grass-fed cows.
Couldn't you get the gelatin from skin or just chew on the cartilages like dogs?
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Yup!
I did it for about 3 weeks every day I ate raw collagen as my main protein source. I actually felt the best I had every felt although it took a lot of time and dedication to commit to it.
I got a cat skinning knife and would scrape of the collagen attached to lambs feet. This I found was the best way to consume it.
I tried soaking bones in lime water and making a raw broth although this method didn't really vibe well with me.
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So I assume this scraping method would work from any bones?
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I just chew on the connective tissue that hangs onto bones and what I can't chew I leave out to dry and let the enzymes from my saliva do the work, and revisit the gristle later. you can buy cuts like shoulders chops, bone in ribs and a few others that do have more cartilage and gelatin in them.
I have done really well with really slow and long cooked gelatin, bone and marrow broths, but they are stewed 5 days with no acids added and must contain marrow or I react horrible to them. When they contain enough connective tissue to have to blend up they are seriously delicious.
If you do want to go the supplement route, Great Lakes gelatin is grass fed, and in that instance I would suggest taking a glucosamine chondroitin and msm supplement like those Jarrow makes because then you are getting closer to the full range of nutrients.
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Well thats difficult to answer.
I tried doing it with bison knuckles and beef knuckles and the collagen was just too tough to be enjoyable. I assume its the same nutrition though.
BTW I have eaten chunks of bone and big tough pieces of collagen and all digested perfectly.
Hmm using saliva for softening the collagen? Sounds like a good idea to me.
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this is probably also a situation where having access to seafood would be beneficial because things like fish and shrimp can be eaten whole and have gelatin, chicken feet are also high in gelatin, the are super weird to chew on raw though, lol, but delicious lightly cooked. I have also swallowed down large pieces, I don't see em come out the other end so either they digested or this is the "100 pounds of undigested putrid meat" I always hear that carnivores are carrying around in their bellies.
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this is probably also a situation where having access to seafood would be beneficial because things like fish and shrimp can be eaten whole and have gelatin, chicken feet are also high in gelatin, the are super weird to chew on raw though, lol, but delicious lightly cooked. I have also swallowed down large pieces, I don't see em come out the other end so either they digested or this is the "100 pounds of undigested putrid meat" I always hear that carnivores are carrying around in their bellies.
very nice, would you recommend eating regular raw shrimps from the conventionally store or would it be necessary to look for wild caught shrimps?
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conventional shrimps are best to stay away from, nasty farming methods...
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The shoulder blades of lambs have some soft bone and cartilage. I have cut up some of the softer edges of the shoulder with tin snips and grinded it up in a Blendtek.
I have been working on methods of best grinding up bone and connective tissue.
A large rasp works to make bone meal, but it takes a lot of work to get a good amount.
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just so you know, bone is mostly calcium, very little mg. Mg. seems to be the mineral to find on a raw meat diet like yours,,, Phil thinks it might be in the outer sections of bone, and that makes sense to me for ca. has little strength to form strong bones, and mg. can add strength if it's deposited in the outer layers... Of course this is Pure Speculation.
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LOL Van I am not quite sure whats the distinction between BS and PS ...but I like the term!
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PS would be, 'wouldn't it be great if I was right on this one',, and BS is, 'let's see how many people I can get to believe me on this one'. In composites, you look to build strength on the outside of a part, as in an I-beam, you don't really care how stiff or strong the middle is,,, bones I think are similar. At least when you start grinding on bones, the outside layer is the hardest, and the middle is softest. Haven't you heard from those professional peoples,, you need mg. to make strong bones,, not just ca. to form them... I'm still PSing...
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You would think that whole bone meal from well nourished animals would have all the minerals in the proper portions on needs to build strong bones with.
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I know, that's what I thought too. I still have two Ferrier's rasps in my freezer (keeps the temp grinding bone meal down) that I use occasionally. I actually searched for a while on the net to see where I could find in a cow where they store their mg.. couldn't find much. But the bone does have a lot of other crucial bone building elements like boron etc. But I am thinking you can get too much ca. I had contracted with a bone grinding tool maker (who makes cutting burrs for the bone industry that grind at low temps) to make me a big one which I thought I'd use to grind large amounts, and then I learned of excess ca. being not a good thing. Most well waters are ca. rich as compared to mg.
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I have done really well with really slow and long cooked gelatin, bone and marrow broths, but they are stewed 5 days with no acids added and must contain marrow or I react horrible to them. When they contain enough connective tissue to have to blend up they are seriously delicious.
Jessica, may I ask how you know for sure that this bone broth was good for your health?
I actually take in bone broth pretty much daily now for my bone health. But I am concerned that it is cooked.
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I’m doubtful of this idea that eating a specific part of an animal is good for the corresponding part of our body.
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because it tastes amazing, gives me lots of balanced energy and improves my skin, joints and ligaments (which have lots of old injuries and ache if I am not careful). my health is steadily improving. its not something I eat all of the time, in fact, someone else makes it and is kind enough to share it with me. but I do have a stash and sometimes, when I am hungry but protein and fat or greens aren't doing it, I will try a scoop and find that it is totally satisfying. I have had other bone broths that sucked ass and made me feel like shit, that is why I stated the criteria above, cooked extremely low, no acid, 5 days, contains marrow, she also only gets them from dexter cows who are raised on some pristine pasture, no supplemental feed, and blends all of the stuff she scraps off into a big fatty gelatinous amalgamation........ I love that woman!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dexter_cattle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dexter_cattle)
iguana, why wouldn't eating a brain help your brain? would it not contain vital fats and nutrients that are congruent with what our brains also need? same with skin or joint and bone tissue, wouldn't these contain similar building blocks? that isn't to say that our bodies cant assimilate these nutrients from other foods, but, to me, it makes the most sense to go to the foods that are most similar in that regard.
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There is a certain logic that the nutrients in a healthy organ like a raw heart will help other peoples' hearts. After all, such nutrients will include lots of coenzyme q10 which is essential for a healthy heart. That said, raw bone is unlikely to have formed a part of our diet due raw bone being basically inedible and un-tearable by human teeth, unless from a tiny animal such as a rat or a mouse. Making bone-broth might make some parts more digestible but at the cost of introducing heat-created toxins derived from cooking.
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I think 'they' ate lots of bones, from birds, insects, rabbits and other smaller critters.... Also when you scrape out marrow, you can get small digestible bits of bone... I'll reserve my thoughts on bone soup till I try that ladies soup. I made some for my daughter and couldn't get past the NOTION that it was cooked... my own mental block.
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iguana, why wouldn't eating a brain help your brain? would it not contain vital fats and nutrients that are congruent with what our brains also need? same with skin or joint and bone tissue, wouldn't these contain similar building blocks? that isn't to say that our bodies cant assimilate these nutrients from other foods, but, to me, it makes the most sense to go to the foods that are most similar in that regard.
I don't know, I didn't say it won't, but that I'm doubtful. It looks similar to Chinese beliefs that eating tiger penis or deer penis will enhance men's virility.
This idea seems too simplistic to me, living things and biochemical processes being so complex. It may help in some cases but it may be detrimental in other cases. We should not overestimate our understanding of these processes.
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Jessica, Thank you for sharing your experience.
But why no acid? Acid (from organic vinegar or tomato) is supposed to help pull out minerals in bones.
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Jessica, Thank you for sharing your experience.
But why no acid? Acid (from organic vinegar or tomato) is supposed to help pull out minerals in bones.
it always seemed to make the broths very inflammatory and I didn't like the taste. if you want something that will help pull out minerals, might as well just spit in it and use natural enzymes :)
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I don't know, I didn't say it won't, but that I'm doubtful. It looks similar to Chinese beliefs that eating tiger penis or deer penis will enhance men's virility.
This idea seems too simplistic to me, living things and biochemical processes being so complex. It may help in some cases but it may be detrimental in other cases. We should not overestimate our understanding of these processes.
well if we looked at what a tiger penis contained, perhaps there is an excess of testosterone or minerals and nutrients that would have an effect on male virility? I have heard this is true with cocks combs and waddles, that they store testosterone there and that if you eat them they will make you randy.
but then lets also look at minerals and nutrients, RogueFarmer enlightened me to the fact that the testicles of sheeps is where they store most of their selenium, so if you hack off a sheeps balls you are causing them to have potential selenium deficiencies because if their body requires it, it does not have its own resources. so in my mind that would make sheep balls an excellent source of selenium for a human who might need those minerals, and when eaten it might restore a deficiency in a mans body that will help their body to produce more testosterone, thus enhancing virility.
with brains you are eating an extremely unique concentration of fats, vitamins and minerals, to get that same concentration from other parts of the body you would have to really source some excellent and diverse fats for sure.
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I think the slow cook idea is a good one. I do the same, and have a kettle of it (no acid) going on the stove now. I've also gotten into the habit of blending fresh turmeric and ginger and adding the blend to the broth. Both of these are anti-inflammatory, especially the turmeric.
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with brains you are eating an extremely unique concentration of fats, vitamins and minerals, to get that same concentration from other parts of the body you would have to really source some excellent and diverse fats for sure.
I agree with this. But if that's going to be specially good for your own brain is another matter. Your body may use those nutrients for some other purpose.
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I think Jessica's point is that there a concentrated amount of minerals in the organs cited, period. Hard to find substantial amounts of dha in animals besides the brain,, hard to find substantial amounts of testosterone (don't know about selenium) other than testicles, and I bet the list goes on. And yes, our bodies may use those nutrients elsewhere.
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I totally understand and think Iguana has a valid point. In my mind, if a person is having the symptoms of nutrient deficiencies, I think they should load up on the best sources, be it animals sourced or from quality supplements, which mostly I would recommend if they have symptoms of extreme deficiencies, especially because it is hard for some to source really good quality foods, and sometimes they are cost prohibitive in the quantities we might need them.
I do agree that the body might use it elsewhere, but isn't that more of a reason to then eat the highest quantity source of that/those specific nutrients so that it can use it where it would like and hopefully be satiated there and still have excess to use elsewhere?
wow a lot of PS on my part today :D
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I totally understand and think Iguana has a valid point. In my mind, if a person is having the symptoms of nutrient deficiencies, I think they should load up on the best sources, be it animals sourced or from quality supplements, which mostly I would recommend if they have symptoms of extreme deficiencies, especially because it is hard for some to source really good quality foods, and sometimes they are cost prohibitive in the quantities we might need them.
I do agree that the body might use it elsewhere, but isn't that more of a reason to then eat the highest quantity source of that/those specific nutrients so that it can use it where it would like and hopefully be satiated there and still have excess to use elsewhere?
I guess it all depends on the persons assimilation and absorption capabilities as well.
wow a lot of PS on my part today :D
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well if we looked at what a tiger penis contained, perhaps there is an excess of testosterone or minerals and nutrients that would have an effect on male virility? I have heard this is true with cocks combs and waddles, that they store testosterone there and that if you eat them they will make you randy.
but then lets also look at minerals and nutrients, RogueFarmer enlightened me to the fact that the testicles of sheeps is where they store most of their selenium, so if you hack off a sheeps balls you are causing them to have potential selenium deficiencies because if their body requires it, it does not have its own resources. so in my mind that would make sheep balls an excellent source of selenium for a human who might need those minerals, and when eaten it might restore a deficiency in a mans body that will help their body to produce more testosterone, thus enhancing virility.
with brains you are eating an extremely unique concentration of fats, vitamins and minerals, to get that same concentration from other parts of the body you would have to really source some excellent and diverse fats for sure.
Having eaten a lot of sheep both intact and wethered, I can say I personally prefer the intact. Testicles are nutrient rich, and so is placenta and the female gonads. Both men and women could benefit from the proto-hormone building nutrients responsible for overall health and vitality that are concentrated in the gonads and other glands.
The dang Stupid way people raise and eat meat animals nowadays is just unforgivably wrong . Back in Paleo days skilled hunting peoples would often prefer the largest and fattest males. They would eat the organs including the brains and the gonads, bone marrow, and fatty cuts first, and leave the rest to either dry for lean times, or fed to the dogs in times of plenty.
Nowadays everyone eats castrated animals fed estrogen mimicking food based diets. There is this myth that has been going around that non castrated male animals taste gamy and can be tough. Well I can say the best Rams I have ever had, were around 3 to 5 years old, with bellies full of fat, and meat that is a deep dark red, and tender. Even the store bought grass fed is often fed hay that comes from mineral depleted soil. Then those animals are slaughtered before they even reach full physical and sexual maturity, leaving little time to accumulate the healthy fats and mineral rich tissues that come with aging naturally on rich pastures.
Another absurdity is that the best parts get sent off to be made into spam or turned into dog food , while modern day grocery store connoisseurs spend outrageous amounts of money on lean cuts of meats, that often come from nutrient poor animals, that doesn't taste very good to begin with. Sure, deli cuts of meat are full of protein , but without a variety of quality fats and the high vitamin and mineral content that one can get from the more nutrient dense tissues of the animal, muscle meat alone will not be able to provide optimal nutrition.
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this is probably also a situation where having access to seafood would be beneficial because things like fish and shrimp can be eaten whole and have gelatin, chicken feet are also high in gelatin, the are super weird to chew on raw though, lol, but delicious lightly cooked. I have also swallowed down large pieces, I don't see em come out the other end so either they digested or this is the "100 pounds of undigested putrid meat" I always hear that carnivores are carrying around in their bellies.
Please jessica (and others) explain us more about fish.
What do you mean by "whole" fish? Does this mean we should eat the fish meat along with it's bones & fish liver & fish heart & fish skin?
I do eat fish eyes & brain ... . Normally I eat mackerel, but I didn't succeed in eating it's skin.
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Please jessica (and others) explain us more about fish.
What do you mean by "whole" fish? Does this mean we should eat the fish meat along with it's bones & fish liver & fish heart & fish skin?
I do eat fish eyes & brain ... . Normally I eat mackerel, but I didn't succeed in eating it's skin.
yes the whole fish. you can stick whole fish in the blender ala Inger. But very slight heat will make the fish skin easy to eat, cooking them very low in water is an excellent way. if you are going to eat the whole fish including the rib bones just be careful to blend those if they are extremely hard so you don't stab your throat. small fish you can get away with out having to blend.
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BTW I have eaten chunks of bone and big tough pieces of collagen and all digested perfectly.
so one can actually swallow pieces of bones??? just cut the bone in small pieces and swallow/ wash it down with water?