Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet to Suit You => Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach => Topic started by: carnivore on February 06, 2009, 02:51:09 am
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When I eat fatty lamb or beef, I often feel tired 2-3 hours after, but when i eat fatty pork, I have much more energy.
I think it is related to my ability to digest more easily mono unsaturated fat than saturated fat.
I have already noticed this issue many times and I don't think it will improve with time.
I am on a raw meat-only diet.
Is there anything I can do to help me better digest the hard fat from herbivores ?
Do you think it is a liver-gallblader-bile problem (fat emulsification) ?
Thank's for your help!
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I will say that my ability to eat fat has improved greatly with time. The trick I think is to eat just enough so that it tastes good, not trying to force it. Sometimes, and the Bear suggests this, eat it before you eat the meat. But also the back fat on beef tends to be easier to digest for me than even Marrow. I only eat raw, and grass fed. Fat will go rancid in the fridge, or at least go off, after a while. I like to get it vacuumed sealed, then it will keep for weeks, literally. I wouldn't go just meat, you'll end up eating lots of carbs/sugar.
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I remember in one of my healing books... Healing Psoriasis by Dr. John Pagano... he had patients who had compromised fat digestive abilities and their digestion of fats improved immensely when they took 1 to 2 tablespoons of lecithin supplements just before their (cooked) fatty meal.
Might be something worth experimenting with. Personally, I'd prefer just chicken eggs if lecithin were the problem. Or a couple of liver flushes might be needed to clean / tune up the liver.
Here is an informative article: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/02/sugar-hydrogen-bacteria-and.html
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Can you precise what is the back fat on beef ?
Is it the fat under the skin ?
Can you also elaborate "I wouldn't go just meat, you'll end up eating lots of carbs/sugar" ?
I will say that my ability to eat fat has improved greatly with time. The trick I think is to eat just enough so that it tastes good, not trying to force it. Sometimes, and the Bear suggests this, eat it before you eat the meat. But also the back fat on beef tends to be easier to digest for me than even Marrow. I only eat raw, and grass fed. Fat will go rancid in the fridge, or at least go off, after a while. I like to get it vacuumed sealed, then it will keep for weeks, literally. I wouldn't go just meat, you'll end up eating lots of carbs/sugar.
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I used to be a heavy fruits eater during 10 years, and I eat low carbs for only one year (and now zerocarb since 2009). I may have indeed compromised my fat digestive abilitie. However, I have no problem with soft fat in terms of energy, contrary to hard fat. So it may be related to the emulsification of fat ?
Thank's for the article. I will try to ground my meat, and chew it very well in order to help my digestion, before trying lecithin and liver flushes. Maybe adding some Himalayan salt also to help HCL production.
I remember in one of my healing books... Healing Psoriasis by Dr. John Pagano... he had patients who had compromised fat digestive abilities and their digestion of fats improved immensely when they took 1 to 2 tablespoons of lecithin supplements just before their (cooked) fatty meal.
Might be something worth experimenting with. Personally, I'd prefer just chicken eggs if lecithin were the problem. Or a couple of liver flushes might be needed to clean / tune up the liver.
Here is an informative article: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/02/sugar-hydrogen-bacteria-and.html
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i had trouble digesting fat until i became zero carb...give it a couple of months at zero carb
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I also have found it easier to digest liquid fats. Or at least it moves through my bowels quicker. perhaps it has to do with saliva? Maybe its easier to coat it with saliva? Perhaps you must chew the solid fat for a while to coat it well?
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I chew my lamb (ribs) for a while but the fat sticks to my mouth and that was not very pleasant. And not easy to digest. This kind of hard fat (makes by grass fed ruminants) is maybe not really appropriate for a raw carnivorous diet. I may choose other kind of fat (soft) but even the marrow of the mutton sticks!
Does the fat you eat also stick ?
What kind of fat do you eat ?
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There are two main digestive enzymes that break down triglycerides (fat) that I am aware of: Lingual lipase, which occurs in the saliva, and pancreatic lipase excreted to the lower digestive system. Your body will shut down production and function of certain processes according to the burden on them, kinda like how muscles atrophy with casts. After years of not eating much fat or no raw fat, the secretion of these enzymes will essentially be atrophied and a lot of the raw fat you eat will probably come right on out as the material moves through the bowels because triglycerides cannot be absorbed. Given enough time those enzymes will be produced enough to handle the demand.
Rendered fats liquefy (read: greater surface area) at a lower temperature and so enzymes will naturally have more surface area to work with, making their job easier. I suspect something similar occurs with harder versus softer fats. Softer fats break down physically more easily and so their enzymatic break down will be relatively more effective. More chewing would likely aid in fat digestion.
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I have reversed my way of eating fat. I used to follow Bear's recommendations and ate my fat first, then the leaner portions of meat. This significantly helped with my digestion. Then I thought about reversing the order. I now eat the meat first, then the fat. Both methods give good clear stops as to how much I may need at any sitting. However, I really believe that eating meat first offers the best chance at having enough HCL to handle the meat. I also believe this is the way 'we' did it back when. First ate the flesh near the surface, and after, dug deep for the fat, marrow, brain....
Also I have found a very wonderful way of eating tough back fat. I slice into cubes, then put it into a food processor until just small pieces remain, not completely liquified, or turned into a paste. Then I put it into a wide based bowl and the bowl then gets floated in 115 F water. I do this while I eat my meat. Then, some minutes later, a lot of the liquid has separated from the chunky 'mush' and the rest is most palatable to either eat as is, or further separate the liquid portion from the solids with my mouth, and if desired, can spit out the fiberous remains. The liquid is like higher temp rendered fat, a beautiful golden yellow that is simply delicious. Enjoy
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Helo Frédéric,
I'm curious what kind of fats/meats are you currently eating?
I've found that beef/lamb suet or fat from ribs is way too hard for my digestion. Butter and creamy marrow are way better though. I've not tried raw pork yet. I remember I used to like pork very much in the past. But the problem with pigs is that they rarely if ever are let to roam and are fed mostly straches and grains. So the fat content will be omega 6 mostly. But I'd like to know your experience. Maybe people like you and me would benefit much more from eating what we can easily digest than from forcing down hard grass-fed fat...
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Helo Frédéric,
I'm curious what kind of fats/meats are you currently eating?
I've found that beef/lamb suet or fat from ribs is way too hard for my digestion. Butter and creamy marrow are way better though. I've not tried raw pork yet. I remember I used to like pork very much in the past. But the problem with pigs is that they rarely if ever are let to roam and are fed mostly straches and grains. So the fat content will be omega 6 mostly. But I'd like to know your experience. Maybe people like you and me would benefit much more from eating what we can easily digest than from forcing down hard grass-fed fat...
For me, the easiest fat to digest are pork fat, butter, tallow and creamy marrow. The harder the fat, like suet, the less I can properly digest it, and the more I feel sluggish after. I also seem sensitive to egg yolk. I used to eat olive oil because I find it easy to digest and gives me good energy.
Currently, I can eat beef/lamb fat 4 or 5 times a week without feeling tired. But not more. So I alternate with easier fat which gives me more energy. Sometimes clarified butter, but I don't really like the taste anymore, and I feel there's something wrong with it.
Don't force you to eat hard fat. There is enough soft fat to satisfy the entire earth!
I think I have found something VERY important for me : I DEFINITIVELY NEED TO EAT IN THE MORNING. If I have no breakfast, I have less energy the entire day.
Yesterday I eat some tourteau crab : that's really a fatty satiating food !
I plan to breed my own pigs because pork gives me an awesome energy!!
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I find the mutton suet the easiest to digest; tallow, butter, etc. are worse
I think I have found something VERY important for me : I DEFINITIVELY NEED TO EAT IN THE MORNING. If I have no breakfast, I have less energy the entire day.
Even when you eat 1 large meal at the end of the day?
Maybe it's due to bad fat absorption, not enough keto-adaptation, etc., as the fat should give you steady source of energy, even when you are hungry.
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I find the mutton suet the easiest to digest; tallow, butter, etc. are worseEven when you eat 1 large meal at the end of the day?
Maybe it's due to bad fat absorption, not enough keto-adaptation, etc., as the fat should give you steady source of energy, even when you are hungry.
1 large meal at the end of the day is the worst thing I can do. I constantly think of food all day, and have zero energy.
It is not related to keto-adaptation (it is my 9th month), but to digestion. Soft fat is definitively easier to digest for me.
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Have you tried mutton/ lamb suet with raw honey? This combination is really easy to digest
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1 large meal at the end of the day is the worst thing I can do. I constantly think of food all day, and have zero energy.
It is not related to keto-adaptation (it is my 9th month), but to digestion. Soft fat is definitively easier to digest for me.
I think you have adrenal issues, just like me... Breakfast is very importnat for adrenals...
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I think you have adrenal issues, just like me... Breakfast is very importnat for adrenals...
Very probable. My pulse is also too high since I started a high fat diet :a cortisol release issue ?
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I am not sure about cortisol. It could be. I raised this issue in my journal. Some say ketogenic diet increases cortisol, other say it does not... Have you experienced any other symptoms?
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I am not sure about cortisol. It could be. I raised this issue in my journal. Some say ketogenic diet increases cortisol, other say it does not... Have you experienced any other symptoms?
If I eat too much fat : cramps, blurred vision, pain, cramp in my chest (heart), arrythmia, high pulse, etc.
I would be very happy to know why and how fat intake cause the high pulse! (after 9 months on a carnivore diet)
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"The high-fat diet also led to additional stress on the athletes' cardiovascular systems. During the test ride at 85 per cent of max heart rate, high-fat athletes' heart rates averaged 174 beats per minute, but high-carb cyclists' pulse rates settled at a much more comfortable 159. Blood levels of norepinephrine - a hormone which can boost heart rate - were considerably higher in the high-fat athletes."
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0365.htm
Excessive norepinephrine may be causing your problems...
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This is all very interesting.
I, too, suffer from adrenal problems although they're much improved over the years I've been eating RAF. Over the last few months I've been gradually moving towards zero carb or VLC paleo. This last few weeks I've been eating nothing but raw beef/lamb, beef suet and a few herbs for flavouring. I have also been experiencing a very fast pulse from even the slightest exertion. Just from getting up from the chair yesterday I measured my pulse at over 120bpm and could feel my heart racing!! I've also been feeling groggy and had frequent sustained mild headaches.
Is this all a normal part of the ketogenic adaptation process? How have some you longer term VLC or zero carbers found this - Lex, Andrew?
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i am having issues digesting fat and feel the same way u do with grogyness/poor digestion. I am slowly easing into it with bone marrow a lot, but its like my body recognizes it as completly foriegn. I am stopping my high cardio lifestyle of 20k bike to/from school now though to try and put on weight.
ANYONE GOT TIPS ON ABOSORBING THE FAT!!!!????? THANKS
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i am having issues digesting fat and feel the same way u do with grogyness/poor digestion. I am slowly easing into it with bone marrow a lot, but its like my body recognizes it as completly foriegn. I am stopping my high cardio lifestyle of 20k bike to/from school now though to try and put on weight.
ANYONE GOT TIPS ON ABOSORBING THE FAT!!!!????? THANKS
Try eating it with a little pineapple. Aajonus recommends that. Uhm, my advice is just ease into it. Eat a little fat to begin with. Make sure you dont over do it.
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Eat meat when very hungry. Pick the delicious types of fat. Back fat, fresh bone marrow.
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Eat meat when very hungry. Pick the delicious types of fat. Back fat, fresh bone marrow.
I agree with this aswell. Good advice.
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i am having issues digesting fat and feel the same way u do with grogyness/poor digestion. I am slowly easing into it with bone marrow a lot, but its like my body recognizes it as completly foriegn. I am stopping my high cardio lifestyle of 20k bike to/from school now though to try and put on weight.
ANYONE GOT TIPS ON ABOSORBING THE FAT!!!!????? THANKS
What do you mean by "recognizes it as completly foriegn"? Do you throw up or have diarrhea?
If you tried different kinds of fat (suet, marrow, back fat, pork fat, egg yolk, fish fat, chicken fat) and none of them agree with you, then maybe listen to your body and eat more fruit and/or honey.
Maybe also try raw dairy fat if you can tolerate it. You can mix it with honey and/or fruit to make it more palatable. Also, in my experience, the combination of fat+carbs is very good at putting on weight. Much better than fat alone or carbs alone.
Also, if you've been doing this for only 2 months, maybe your body simply needs more time to adapt, and you have to be patient.
Instead of stopping biking, maybe just try reducing the pace. Slow-paced bike riding isn't much different than walking, and you arrive at your destination a lot faster.
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Instead of stopping biking, maybe just try reducing the pace. Slow-paced bike riding isn't much different than walking, and you arrive at your destination a lot faster.
Slow-paced bike riding is more time on the seat, and more weight on the seat. ?
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thanks for all ur tips. i have stoped the cardio/bike riding and now only play hockey once a week, and am now into strength training.
I am absorbing fats now, but feel grogy for a few hours after. I am doing a one meal a day thing now which acutally works wonders if u make it a feast, but not bloat urslef (fine line ;)). I found pineapple did help, but i am avoiding citrusy stuff so i am eating ground pork, and marrow, both with honey. It seems to work great for me, but what do u guys think of this (pros/cons, plz/ty). u guys have turned my life around with this ZC thing, so i will pay u back by paying it forward ;D