Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: goodsamaritan on May 02, 2014, 11:51:58 am
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There is a big industry practice depending on your area that livestock, usually beef and pork are castrated.
Beef
https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=castrating+beef&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 (https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=castrating+beef&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8)
Pigs
https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=castrating+pigs&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 (https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=castrating+pigs&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8)
Lamb
https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=castrating+pork&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#channel=fs&q=castrating+lamb (https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=castrating+pork&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#channel=fs&q=castrating+lamb)
Chicken
https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=castrating+chicken&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 (https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=castrating+chicken&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8)
Goat
https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=castrating+goat&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 (https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=castrating+goat&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8)
This is why they look uniformly the same.
Which means we are not eating enough MASCULINE livestock... unless we are careful...
We could always go for wild animals if available to us.
May this thread talk about where to buy non-castrated livestock, practices, which livestock are not usually castrated? Your inputs please.
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Well the first farm I was buying my meal from initially are selling lamb testicles, so I'm guessing they get castrated after slaughter? :P
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I'm just horrified at this new castration realization.
Which means me and my family have not been eating enough real MALE animals.
This deserves an experiment.
I will go out of my way tomorrow market time and look for un-castrated male animal meat.
I should go on an experiment of maybe 1 month of just un-castrated male animal meat.
Might be the reason many decades ago men and women were more virile.
How about all those brave men fighting in hand to hand combat in wars?
Could be an athlete's secret diet.
Anyone want to join in or has done a similar experiment?
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GS you might want to ask RogueFarmer about castration:
my chiropractor claims they lose allmost all of their selenium when you castrate. middle easterners of any religion require intact, horned and without a mark on the body. mexicans prefer bull meat. a billy goat is certainly stronger tasting than a whether and other animals are of similiarly various but lesser strengths of flavour. the greeks prefered a five year old bull and native american tribes generally prefered 5 year old buck or bull venison.
from this thread (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/kim-jong-il-was-a-raw-foodist(sort-of)/ (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/kim-jong-il-was-a-raw-foodist(sort-of)/))
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Before CAFO came into being, humans predominantly ate bulls, since eating female animals (cows) was taboo. The taboo made perfect sense in a hunter-gatherer culture, since killing the female could eliminate potential offspring, while killing a few bulls would have no effect on the fecundity of the herd.
Today, CAFO use steer, which are neutered bulls. One reason for this is that steer are a lot easier to manage than bulls. Why? Because hormone levels in bulls (with intact sex organs) are significantly higher than in steer. In fact, bull meat has between 34 and 105 times more testosterone than steer meat. No wonder bulls are harder to manage!
http://chriskresser.com/grass-fed-vs-conventional-meat-its-not-black-or-white (http://chriskresser.com/grass-fed-vs-conventional-meat-its-not-black-or-white)
And if we are eating those male red meats raw on a regular basis, we should be virile macho men. This is an immense realization for me. I could have had more muscles. More rugged, more aggressive disposition. Ah but I still have a chance with myself at 45. And I can still feed high testosterone meat to my children and my wife. Maybe my wife will be hornier. Maybe my kids will be hornier and give me lots of grand kids. Maybe they will have higher intelligence, more energy with more testosterone. And be better built manlier built than me.
I'm doing this experiment, gonna get me some male power from male red meat. Possibilities are horse, goats, deer, chicken, bulls balls... how about fish? I remember the market people say they can identify male and female tuna.
This castration issue is big my friends... super big... we used to have all the testosterone we needed in surpluses.
I'm 45 this year, raw paleo since 2008 Jan and today I'm a manly sex stud compared to weak sex dud when I was 33. My normal sperm count was 100 million per ml from 21 and at 33 and that was increased to 300 million per ml when I did my every other day of raw oyster lunches in 2002. I haven't taken a sperm count again. But in the name of science I will do so again. When my dad said his sperm count used to be 500 million per ml I could not believe it. Now I know that in the old days he must have eaten his normal share of male red meat intact even if mostly cooked. I'm betting I will get that 500 million per ml too. And maybe gain the kind of muscle my dad has. (normal sperm count in 2002 when I was researching back then was 50 to 150 million per ml) So in the old days... they had tons more sperm.
"The average sperm count today (2013?) is between 20 and 40 million per milliliter in the Western world, having decreased by 1-2% per year from a substantially higher number decades ago." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semen_analysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semen_analysis) ( Planet of the WIMPS! diet of all non masculine animals? plus pollution, etc.)
We should have all those abs in the movie 300.
Our women should be horny from their teens to their 60s.
I bet many of us will experiment with eating majority male red meat and report major testosterone fueled results.
This is going to be big. Very big.
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Let us know were you find some. Count me in.
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GS this is why I mentioned I prefer female game to male game when I get my choice, because I don't want extra testosterone in my food. It's not like hormones disappear when the animal is dead.
Its only part of the equation.
I think doing hard physical labor, especially that causes some amount of physical stress but not enough or often enough to be harmful, increases testosterone. Or maybe just hormones in general but I think it is what is lacking in the lives of men who do deskjobs, commute, watch tv and are generally sedentary. Hard exercise with proper rest and environment don't really exist, its weird we choose the grind instead.
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I ordered male horse meat and penis and balls. will get tomorrow.
today i bought bull's balls, make soup for the family, keeping one testicle for myself. bull's ball soup here in our city is called soup #5.
we checked live goats today, male goat, balls intact, but still too young, the men were selling it as if young goat was desirable. will go to another market tomorrow to see other older male goats.
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I'm all in GS ;D! Always believed ( kind of in a "you are what you eat" way) that eating meat from an apathetic castrated bull could only lead to less durable health. Left alone the fact that a lot of important nutriants may be missing. It could be one of the reasons why people tend to be less sexually active nowadays, more tired, weaker etc...
However in the wild grown up males are usually the ones that have the most chance of surviving when being hunted on, as opposed to young ones and females, who are usually weaker, slower...thus easier for a predator to kill.
Put in an order, members of an animal group having the highest chance of getting killed:
first comes the yougest, the sick and injured, the very old, then the females, and at the top we find the adult males: stronger, more agressive.
No cheetah would be dumb enough to mess with the later if they had the chance of preying on weaker members of the herd. But hey, maybe one time out of ten, they do get to feed on grown up male flesh.
The point being that perhaps the gender of the animal we feed on is not of the utmost importance in this case, even though uncastrated meat is of course a lot better than the other stuff. Like Jessica I think that exercice and environment is equally, if not even more significant when it comes to hormonal health and balance.
Personally, I think its more complex than just "eat males to be the baddest male/eat females to be the hottest female".
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Talking about testosterone and libido I remember quite a funny encounter with the family doctor ;D:
At that time I had just bought a vegan rice protein powder, because it seemed healthier and as efficient as the whey dairy one.
When the doctor found out she said:"If you get your protein powder from plants ,you'll have the sexual strengh of a plant!"
And i thought:"Well just where do bulls get their sexual strengh from?!" :P
Note: not using any of this crap anymore ;)
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I'm very interested in this topic, so I'll be following this. Keep us updated GS and anyone else that's going to do it. I definitely think there's something to this.
We'd like to participate in the experiment, but not sure where to source the meat. I am going to at least contact the ranch that we get our beef from to find out if they castrate or not, and also to see if they'd be able to give us testicles.
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I'm all in GS ;D! Always believed ( kind of in a "you are what you eat" way) that eating meat from an apathetic castrated bull could only lead to less durable health. Left alone the fact that a lot of important nutriants may be missing. It could be one of the reasons why people tend to be less sexually active nowadays, more tired, weaker etc...
However in the wild grown up males are usually the ones that have the most chance of surviving when being hunted on, as opposed to young ones and females, who are usually weaker, slower...thus easier for a predator to kill.
Put in an order, members of an animal group having the highest chance of getting killed:
first comes the yougest, the sick and injured, the very old, then the females, and at the top we find the adult males: stronger, more agressive.
No cheetah would be dumb enough to mess with the later if they had the chance of preying on weaker members of the herd. But hey, maybe one time out of ten, they do get to feed on grown up male flesh.
The point being that perhaps the gender of the animal we feed on is not of the utmost importance in this case, even though uncastrated meat is of course a lot better than the other stuff. Like Jessica I think that exercice and environment is equally, if not even more significant when it comes to hormonal health and balance.
Personally, I think its more complex than just "eat males to be the baddest male/eat females to be the hottest female".
the hunters in our nearby mountains prefer to hunt the males and let female wild boar free, they know females make babies.
just got home, got horse penis and horse testicles, also horse meat and fat.
it really bothers me realizing we are eating castrated livestock... weird meat... totally unnatural. When in history have we been eating castrated male livestock on a regular basis huh? Gross. Now that you think about it.
http://listverse.com/2011/12/13/top-10-controversies-surrounding-cattle/ (http://listverse.com/2011/12/13/top-10-controversies-surrounding-cattle/)
castration included.
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just got home, got horse penis and horse testicles, also horse meat and fat.
How do the penis and testicles taste? As mentioned, I'm going to try to get bull testicles and possibly the penis from our farmers market. She generally gets us good custom cuts. Just wondering what to expect.
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sigh, the maid cooked all the horse bits and forgot to leave me a raw testicle... and i kept on reminding them, i was out of the house.
http://agricultureproud.com/2011/05/12/why-castrate-cattle/ (http://agricultureproud.com/2011/05/12/why-castrate-cattle/)
reasons why the industry castrates beef... nothing about the health, nature, paleo diet principles.... eating castrated livestock is unnatural, not paleo, i don't care if they say grass fed. castrated livestock are FREAKS!
and the majority of today's populace are eating freaky livestock. very bad. is there a movement to stop this monstrous practice?
i think the paleo movement needs to make a big bad announcement in every website in every book: Castrated Animals are not Paleo! Disapproved. totally unnatural disgusting.
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and the majority of today's populace are eating freaky livestock. very bad. is there a movement to stop this monstrous practice?
Creating a demand is one way of changing this situation. The more people buy and ask for uncastrated meat, the more butchers and meat industrials will (have to) provide. Thing is not a lot of people really know, or care to know what's truly on their plate...
So right now the best you can do is continue buying from safe guaranteed sources.
Also wild game usually never is castrated. Probably the same for fish..
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I cannot get hold of raw testicles or penis over here. I once tried a stag testicle when in the UK, but it was too tough for me to chew. Ah well, at least my raw wild game does come from uncastrated animals.
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Ahh, I dont think that you are going to eat dicks and testicles and wake up looking ripped.
Your lack of muscle mass probably has more to do with you not lifting heavy things repeatedly and less to do with the sex of the meat you are eating.
I personally found that trying to put on muscle mass eating a strict raw paleo diet very difficult.
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Being ripped is just one thing, there should be other health benefits when you shun castrated meats.
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Ahh, I dont think that you are going to eat dicks and testicles and wake up looking ripped.
Your lack of muscle mass probably has more to do with you not lifting heavy things repeatedly and less to do with the sex of the meat you are eating.
I personally found that trying to put on muscle mass eating a strict raw paleo diet very difficult.
I disagree. I don't think you will "wake up looking ripped" but you will definitely gain good muscle mass. I haven't done a lick of exercise, just whatever lifting and movements my housework requires, a lot of leisure walking or walking to a destination, and then whatever movement for work, and yet I get asked regularly if I go to the gym. I have defined biceps - enough to really impress my boyfriend and the family - and my boyfriend noted my abs are starting to show a bit. And again, not even a little exercise. And I don't even eat a good amount of protein these days ... more fats than anything. And I eat more fruit than someone trying to bulk up probably would allow. So it's not like my version of RPD is really ideal for promoting bulking up.
So I can only imagine that a combination of focusing on uncastrated meats, eating more protein overall from these sources, and then doing some exercise of course could yield incredible results. And as we all know, this is the beginning of an experiment. We don't know the answers, yet. That's what I love about this forum - people do their own self experiments and share the results on a day-by-day basis for us. I'm intrigued and excited to see what's going to happen from this.
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(http://pad3.whstatic.com/images/thumb/1/13/Tell-the-Difference-Between-Bulls%2C-Cows%2C-Steers-and-Heifers-Step-3Bullet2.jpg/670px-Tell-the-Difference-Between-Bulls%2C-Cows%2C-Steers-and-Heifers-Step-3Bullet2.jpg)
Hope this helps you identify your cattle...
How to Tell the Difference Between Bulls, Cows, Steers and Heifers
http://www.wikihow.com/Tell-the-Difference-Between-Bulls,-Cows,-Steers-and-Heifers (http://www.wikihow.com/Tell-the-Difference-Between-Bulls,-Cows,-Steers-and-Heifers)
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Okay, here goes my first find:
I spoke to Sean at North Star Bison http://www.northstarbison.com/ (http://www.northstarbison.com/). They sell intact bison and lamb, BUT you have to ask about gender, because their slaughtering schedule is seasonable. Male bison are available July - January, male lamb from July - November. Shipping to US destinations is available.
Nature's Bounty Meats http://www.nbmeats.com/ (http://www.nbmeats.com/) in Vacaville, California, sells intact, halal meats raised on their farm. You can order ahead and they will slaughter and chill your selection for a fair fee. I've only bought lamb there, but they also have goat, roosters, and beef.
Still checking for more.
@GS thanks for the cattle identifier link, but {LOL} I was hoping for some way to test when the meat is already in the market. Like little testosterone reagent strips...?
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Yeah I don't castrate anymore, did a little bit but not anymore. There was a website selling semen from a particular bull who had nursed for 11 months, with a picture of him nursing almost as big as his mother, perhaps bigger. Said he had ridiculous sperm counts.
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I agree that you don't find castrated animals in nature.. but what do you really know about the differences of eating cast. vs non-cast. ?
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I prefer intact animals.
I am currently eating on a four year old Ram raised on Kentucky bluegrass pasture. He was sold to me because he had become too prolific of a breeder for the small farm. He began to mount the horse, head butted the goats, and took a charge at the farmers children. So he was ripe for harvest.
I personally like the taste of ram, I will drink all the blood and eat the testicles. I believe that there is a benefit to eating intact animals, beyond just the testosterone boost (which is a real phenomenon).
The gonads are a rich source of nutrients for both sexes, and women could benefit from eating male animals as well.
Intact and healthy animals will have more vital and well balanced hormonal system than cut animals. A male in its prime will not only be high in testosterone, but will also be in better balance with all the other endocrine hormones. I have observed a certain vitality that intact animals have, and cut animals do not, and this vital quality can be passed on to whom ever consumes of it, Raw.
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I believe that there is a benefit to eating intact animals, beyond just the testosterone boost (which is a real phenomenon).
Intrigued by "which is a real phenomenon"... can you describe the juicy details?
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Intrigued by "which is a real phenomenon"... can you describe the juicy details?
Seconding this. I was hoping to hear more from this thread, so I'm interested to know!
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There is a lot of stigma and many assumptions regarding this subject?
I still hear people religiously parroting the dogma that mature intact male animals have an unpleasant gamy taste and are not tender compared to cut animals. There is a distinct flavor that male animals have, but I personally find it very appealing, as long as the animal is fed on rich pasture . People who have been raised on neutered meat get accustom to feminine tasting animals. Withers and female animals are very difficult to distinguish from each other by taste, and probably impossible to do so if eatten cooked. Mature males do have a stronger taste that is distinctly different from females, neutered males,and the immature. I think that people who may not be accustom to the taste of fully mascline animals having been raised only on castrated or female animals, may find it unusual, but in no way is that a judgement on the quality or properties of the Meat.
That muskiness denotes a quality which promotes good health and vitality in the animal, and it is my view that these qualities can be transfers to people who consume their animals intact and at the peak of health and physical and hormonal prowess. The essence of maleness excreted by the testes will saturate the very being of the entire animal, it is an important part for the overall health and wellbeing of the animal
I notice a certain level of male enhancement soon after eatting a freshly slaughtered male animal. Its not an over the top instant reaction, but there is an increase in sex drive and a feeling of virility that occurs. I believe that the consumming a healthy balance of hormonal elements contained within the whole animal is more complementary to the health of our own hormonal systems than consuming neutered and hormonally deranged animals produced by modern agriculture.
I advocate a holistic approach which avoids extremes and artificiality's such as eatting ungodly amounts of testicle to get a major testosterone boost. On the other extreme I do not think it is wise to avoid one gender or the other based primarily on your own gender or persumed hormonal needs . I have noticed that when I eat more than two or three females in a row, that I begin to loose my male drive and will begin to strongly crave the taste of Ram.
When I eat fresh ram testicles I will notice the effects. It is usually mild and most noticeable within the first week after a fresh kill. Heightened sex drive, constant spontaneous erections, a preoccupation with philanderers thought. When my testosterone levels are at peak i will notice my skin will become more oily, my urine will have the Oder of a musky ram. On the rare occasions I eat more than a couple of rams in a row I will begin to feel the effects of too much masculine flesh, which will make me want to breed and work until exhaustion. Female flesh is more bland, mild, and may have a calming effect in contrast to male animals. I think a balance between the sexes is necessary for optimal health
I think in order to maximize ones potential to benefit from eatting well balanced hormonally intact animals there are any other factors to consider. Having 90% of my caloric intake coming from raw flesh, while minimizing exposure to other artificial Hormonal influences(as much as possible) may be responsible for my extra sensitivity to the gender of the animals I eat.