Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum

Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Info / News Items / Announcements => Topic started by: MaximilianKohler on October 20, 2015, 11:56:26 am

Title: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: MaximilianKohler on October 20, 2015, 11:56:26 am
http://munchies.vice.com/articles/almost-every-kind-of-wild-fish-is-infected-with-worms (http://munchies.vice.com/articles/almost-every-kind-of-wild-fish-is-infected-with-worms)

Forum post saying most are harmless: https://www.reddit.com/r/Health/comments/3pc2jk/almost_every_kind_of_wild_fish_is_infected_with/cw61zfr?context=3 (https://www.reddit.com/r/Health/comments/3pc2jk/almost_every_kind_of_wild_fish_is_infected_with/cw61zfr?context=3)
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: TylerDurden on October 20, 2015, 01:52:44 pm
This is usual hysteria, no doubt propagated initially by environmentalists.  Many of us  RPDers have bought raw wildcaught fish en-masse for years without ever getting worms so it is absurd.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: MaximilianKohler on October 20, 2015, 02:28:40 pm
I did get worms though. After eating raw for a couple years.

>no doubt propagated initially by environmentalists

That seems pretty baseless... The article is citing a person who works in the industry.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 20, 2015, 08:37:45 pm
Ummm... parasites are everywhere.

Whether in carnivores or snails or in pets or plants or in the water on in the air, etc.

It is the way life is.

Hulda Clark was in the extreme end of being parasite phobic she would zap every food she consumed and her patients consumed... you can be too parasite clean you know... this is why there is a yahoo group called Helminthic Therapy.

Then there is Aajonus Vonderplanitz who says all parasites are good for you for detox.

I'm somewhere in between and judge by each case if I'm going to deworm or not.  Nothing is black and white.

Livestock gets dewormed, pets get dewormed... people should get dewormed too... does not matter whether they are on raw or cooked diets.

I love my sashimi and clams and shrimp and squid.  Tons better, more effective, much faster acting than any processed fish oil.

No one can scare me out of my senses... and starve?

My 2 cents about this issue is... identify the fish you get and find out which are infested / bad... do not buy those.  There is a big variety out there.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: TylerDurden on October 21, 2015, 01:46:12 am
I too once got parasites after eating tons of raw wild game, rotting meat and raw wildcaught seafood over a 14 year period. They were harmless, if a bit unaesthetic. After a few months, I simply got hold of anti-worm drugs from a doctor and got rid of them. In short, judging from reports, RPDers are only very rarely affected by them; when it does happen, it is almost always of a minor, harmless nature, so who cares?
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 21, 2015, 02:41:02 am
Obviously, I agree with TylerDurden. I do recommend being very careful with eating raw shellfish. I've gotten pretty sick a couple of times from those.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: A_Tribe_Called_Paleo on October 21, 2015, 04:16:20 am
Almost all animal meat we consume will have worms or parasites, and almost all cultures who consume raw animal products go to length to avoid them. Take for example, the traditional way to eat suhsi... Fish was fermented, then dipped in fermented soy sauce, mixed with wasabi, and then eaten with ginger, all these methods were taken in precaution of parasites.

"The word "sushi" originally meant fermented fish, and has its roots in Southeast Asia."

"Nare Sushi took a couple months to prepare, and eventually becomes consumed before the fermentation process is complete."

Source: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-jul-primitive-funa-zushi-the-horrid-roots-of-modern-sushi (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-jul-primitive-funa-zushi-the-horrid-roots-of-modern-sushi)

Other cultures, after the fresh kill, eat the meat raw, but not before dipping it in the sour, and acidic bile sac of the animal.

"Just when I thought things couldn't possibly get any worse for Andrew on this E. Coli inducing bar-b-q trip from hell, someone yanked out the animal's gall bladder, spilled the contents of its bile sac into a bowl of spices, and told him to dip raw pieces of liver into it and eat it. Whatchu talkin' bout, Willis!?:

Source: http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/04/andrew-zimmern-bizarre-foods-season-4-episode-1-opener-tv-recap.html (http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/04/andrew-zimmern-bizarre-foods-season-4-episode-1-opener-tv-recap.html)

As we all know, spices themselves, have anti parasitic properties.

And finally we are all familiar with cooking methods... which helps prevent people from parasitic/worm infestation.

In conclusion, it is foolish to consume meat we know harbors parasites/worms, and think there could be no possible negative effect. Of course not every consumption will be problematic, but if one consumes raw animal product, consider yourself susceptible to infestation.

Still not convinced?

Witness your death: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9F1EhfvYpA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9F1EhfvYpA)
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: MaximilianKohler on October 21, 2015, 04:26:48 am
Tribe, do you eat raw? If so, what precautions do you take?
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: JeuneKoq on October 21, 2015, 04:45:01 am
Still not convinced?

Witness your death: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9F1EhfvYpA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9F1EhfvYpA)

I could not watch the video due to youtube restrictions regarding graphic videos, and because I always forget my login password. One commenter said the parasites were actually "Ascaris", which are found in contaminated soil. So the guy likely got infected when he ate raw vegetables, not raw meat!

Perhaps people who eat a traditional diet which includes grains and cooked food must limit their exposition to parasites because their immune system is weaker, and their body "dirtier". Worse is when their body never had the chance to develop a better immunity because of low exposition to them during childhood.

Anyways, as GoodSam says, parasites are everywhere. You get them by walking barefoot on soil, drinking spring water, swimming in a lake, breathing...
Nowhere is safe.

Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: sabertooth on October 21, 2015, 04:49:18 am
I got the privilege to get my first Amish Raised sheep the other day from a man named Elijah.

He told me about how parasites cannot live in healthy tissue, and only animals with sick and deficient tissues, which is very interesting hearing A.V. theory retold to me from a man who never did a web search in his life. He went on to say that mineral balance is real important to maintain health and that once he started supplementing his flock with mineral supplements the worm issues went away.

Even if you do eat an animal with a worm, most worms do not transmit very easily to humans( unless there is already an underling issue which would make one prone). The anecdotal accounts of people with worms do not mention the fact that most of them live heavily if not entirely on cooked foods, and that raw meat is rarely the source of infection. The bulk of these accounts are of third world people , who are malnourished and living in filth.

In this raw foods community there have been only a few cases, like Tyler tape worm, which didn't cause any problems and was easily treated. Many people have inquired about and convinced themselves that they have gotten a worm from eating raw meat, but there is very little in the way of proof to back up the claim.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: A_Tribe_Called_Paleo on October 21, 2015, 06:08:03 am
No disrespect guys, but you both are not referencing any confirmable events, data, or research...

One of you is making a decision based on a youtube comment, and the other about an experience with an amish guy.... Not greatest sources in the world...

In the rare event that the worms in the video were from contaminated soil, it is more likely it was consumed from ground beef, not a vegetable... Look up how ground beef is made... disgusting.... the cow, covered in dirt, and layers of its own feces. its ground up with thousands of other cows just like it...   

I think its safe to assume the healthier the person, the easier the body will deal with parasites/worms... Just cause the body can deal with them, doesn't mean we can freely consume them disregarding possible negative outcomes...   

I do eat raw... usually the meat is cured, or i just add spices, onions, garlic, like a tar tar style dish... but now always... i dont eat as much meat as many people on this forum so my risks are much lower.

Clearly parasites are a problem, and its wise to do everything u can to avoid them. IMO its foolish not to.. like you guys said, you can even pick them up walking barefoot... why would you knowingly increase your chances of parasitic infection when you know there are methods invented specifically to avoid them.... To do so would be denying the collective knowledge of cultures round the world
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: TylerDurden on October 21, 2015, 06:50:49 am
(http://www.flayme.com/images/zero.jpg)

(https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/p/2/005/078/212/3c36c7f.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/eTPX8x3.gif)

Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: A_Tribe_Called_Paleo on October 21, 2015, 07:58:33 am
(http://www.flayme.com/images/zero.jpg)

(https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/p/2/005/078/212/3c36c7f.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/eTPX8x3.gif)

No one here is trolling.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 21, 2015, 08:34:25 am
I don't know whether you are trolling or not. However, be aware my user title,"one who bans trolls", is VERY much based in fact, as any longtime member here will tell you.

Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: A_Tribe_Called_Paleo on October 21, 2015, 09:04:50 am
I don't know whether you are trolling or not. However, be aware my user title,"one who bans trolls", is VERY much based in fact, as any longtime member here will tell you.

i dont see how anything i said could be misinterpreted as trolling... I made a few claims, i backed them up with other sources...
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 21, 2015, 09:40:15 am
i dont see how anything i said could be misinterpreted as trolling... I made a few claims, i backed them up with other sources...

You're too uninformed on these issues to even know why your sources are flawed, and what exactly causes those flaws. In addition (and this is the only deadly sin you're committing, but it IS deadly) you lack the necessary burning curiosity that people like me have.  You will never find the trutb about nutrition, because you just don't care enough. You refused to even read one chapter of Dr. Price's book. I read the fucking thing TWICE, all 569 pages.  Why? Because I wanted to prove that raw veganism was the ideal human diet, and I knew Dr. Price had found that modern diets caused crooked teeth and other problems. However, I didn't realize that Dr. Price's hypothesis was the same as mine, basically. He thought veganism was ideal, and was hoping to prove it's value by studying traditional tribes. His research convinced him otherwise, and it convinced me too.

But you'll never read the book, because you just don't have the passion like I do. That's OK, though. Few do, so no shame in that. Don't expect to fit in with wild-eyed mad scientists like us, though. You're too conventional for us.  You're a rule-follower, and we ...aren't.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: A_Tribe_Called_Paleo on October 21, 2015, 09:51:05 am
You're too uninformed on these issues to even know why your sources are flawed, and what exactly causes those flaws. In addition (and this is the only deadly sin you're committing, but it IS deadly) you lack the necessary burning curiosity that people like me have.  You will never find the trutb about nutrition, because you just don't care enough. You refused to even read one chapter of Dr. Price's book. I read the fucking thing TWICE, all 569 pages.  Why? Because I wanted to prove that raw veganism was the ideal human diet, and I knew Dr. Price had found that modern diets caused crooked teeth and other problems. However, I didn't realize that Dr. Price's hypothesis was the same as mine, basically. He thought veganism was ideal, and was hoping to prove it's value by studying traditional tribes. His research convinced him otherwise, and it convinced me too.

But you'll never read the book, because you just don't have the passion like I do. That's OK, though. Few do, so no shame in that. Don't expect to fit in with wild-eyed mad scientists like us, though. You're too conventional for us.  You're a rule-follower, and we ...aren't.

once again... i never said people should eat vegan... idk where your getting this from...i eat raw paleo... ive posted on here before that im skeptical about the WAPF because they are currently funded my the meat and dairy corporations.

You havnt really gave a real reason why you dont like my sources... there are many others like them out there as well... but to each is own 
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 21, 2015, 09:59:54 am
So what does your "paleo" diet look like? Dude, veganism isn't paleo. Humans have never been vegans. Ever. Sure, there are a few supposedly vegan Buddhists in China (who are eating insects unknowingly in their food, no doubt), but we evolved as omnivores. Period. PERIOD. And nobody but a vegan troll would start a thread with this thread's title.

So exactly which animal foods are you eating? LOL
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: A_Tribe_Called_Paleo on October 21, 2015, 10:13:38 am
So what does your "paleo" diet look like? Dude, veganism isn't paleo. Humans have never been vegans. Ever. Sure, there are a few supposedly vegan Buddhists in China (who are eating insects unknowingly in their food, no doubt), but we evolved as omnivores. Period. PERIOD. And nobody but a vegan troll would start a thread with this thread's title.

So exactly which animal foods are you eating? LOL

I know we evolved as omnivores... im not disputing this. the animal foods i eat are eggs, and fish that i catch off the coast of san diego, spear fishing and deep sea. I eat meat, just not as much as a lot of people here. i dont eat any dairy.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 21, 2015, 10:40:22 am
So when's the last time you ate a piece of meat or fish? And I hope the eggs you eat are from chickens that actually get to forage for insects. They're not worth eating, otherwise.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: A_Tribe_Called_Paleo on October 21, 2015, 12:20:36 pm
So when's the last time you ate a piece of meat or fish? And I hope the eggs you eat are from chickens that actually get to forage for insects. They're not worth eating, otherwise.

Today, and before that i think sunday night. i have it whenever i have time to get it. I get more when i go deep sea fishing. Yes the eggs are fertile and pasture raised. They are covered in bloom and feathers.

Im not resistant to eating other types of meat... place by me sells wild game(Elk,deer, boar i think), but its rare they have it in stock.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 21, 2015, 09:21:10 pm
Well, as long as you accept that we have several members who are very healthy eating 100% carnivorous, I don't see a problem. It didn't work well for you, but that's just one data point.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: sabertooth on October 22, 2015, 12:07:12 am
I still stand on my statement regarding how the majority of worm infections are in people who eat cooked diets, and eat foods which are produced in sub quality conditions. The reports of people infested with worms most likly are of people who are not following the basic guidelines of a raw paleo diet.

In fact if these worms were so prevalent in raw meat, and their infection so pernicious then you would expect everyone of the veterans here to be infested, but this is not the case, so as a group of many people who have eaten raw meat for extended periods, without such issues, we place the burden of proof on anyone who claims that eating raw meat poses a greater risk of parasite infection.

 I see all of those parasite mitigating methods of dunking in lemon juice, ginger, and using spices to clear away parasites, as a desperate attempt to   re-mediate a situation caused by unbalance in the diet and environment( post neolithic practices). Groups of people who are practicing these methods, are not raw paleo, many of them use grains, they cook much of their food, and they often raise their animals in less than optimal ways.

The idea that a healthy body with healthy tissue will repel parasites is not just some theory concocted by the Amish Mystic I meet, or by AV the great, it is something that is noticed by virtually all the sheep breeder, worth their flock, I have known. They breed sheep to be resistant and they are aware of conditions which promote natural resistance. As a carnivore if I only consume animals whom are healthy and have a high level of health and natural resistance, then those qualities of health immunity and vitality will be transferred to my own Body.

Parasites are a symptom of an unbalanced animal, if the animal cannot become resistant to the pest in its environment, then people should be wise enough not to breed and use those animals for food. Where on the other hand if the animal is in prime condition and is parasite resistant, then it is fair game.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: ys on October 22, 2015, 03:13:16 am
Quote
I did get worms though

What kind?
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: ys on October 22, 2015, 03:18:39 am
Quote
I got the privilege to get my first Amish Raised sheep the other day from a man named Elijah.

My first 3y old ram from Amish had lung worms, very small, thread like.  I ate some of it before I noticed it.  Did not eat the rest of lungs.  Just lost my appetite thinking about it.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: MaximilianKohler on October 22, 2015, 07:57:22 am
Wikipedia points out some flaws/critiques of Weston Price's research: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Price#Nutrition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Price#Nutrition)

So far I really haven't seen any convincing info/sources that would make me confident enough to ignore all current medical knowledge about the dangers of parasites.

Pretty much every wild animal is infested with them. Domesticated animals are mostly free of them. I have seen evidence of parasites being dangerous. I read about one that caused a guy to lose his eyesight after eating raw deer.

http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/trichinellosis/gen_info/faqs.html (http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/trichinellosis/gen_info/faqs.html) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichinella_spiralis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichinella_spiralis) - there are tons of these.

I think that just because there is no evidence that any of the few members on this forum have been severely harmed from parasites, doesn't mean they're not dangerous.

>we place the burden of proof on anyone who claims that eating raw meat poses a greater risk of parasite infection

Pretty sure the CDC and other similar organizations have publications like that. http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/food.html (http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/food.html) - http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/survival/wilderness/eating-raw-meat1.htm (http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/survival/wilderness/eating-raw-meat1.htm) - http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsis/topics/food-safety-education/get-answers/food-safety-fact-sheets/foodborne-illness-and-disease/parasites-and-foodborne-illness/ (http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsis/topics/food-safety-education/get-answers/food-safety-fact-sheets/foodborne-illness-and-disease/parasites-and-foodborne-illness/) - http://www.livescience.com/20856-organic-meat-toxoplasmosis-parasite-risk.html (http://www.livescience.com/20856-organic-meat-toxoplasmosis-parasite-risk.html)

Some can have subtle but significant affects: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasma_gondii#Behavioral_differences_of_infected_hosts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasma_gondii#Behavioral_differences_of_infected_hosts)

This is pretty standard stuff. Which is why cooking meat is seen as "common sense" almost everywhere.

Claims like "parasites only harm unhealthy hosts" are unscientific and unfalsifiable. So they don't hold much weight.

>>I did get worms though
>What kind?

I think they were tape worms. I saw a small flat one, and a really long one. I might have ate something that caused them to exit because medical tests came up negative.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: ys on October 22, 2015, 08:20:45 am
Quote
Which is why cooking meat is seen as "common sense" almost everywhere.

Most of my meat is frozen.  It is a way better option than cooking it.

Parasites is not a reason to cook meat.  If you ever butchered whole animal you'd know there is a LOT of nutrients left after you are done with meat.  And the only EASY way to extract those nutrients is to boil it.  In the early days when you could not count on every successful hunt it was essential to get the most out of every animal.  Most human as well as many animals prefer abundance of lesser quality food than just barely enough of higher quality food.  That's the reason for cooking.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: sabertooth on October 22, 2015, 09:17:15 am
So we have another account of worms without any evidence...... next time someone passes a worm, please take pictures, or even better take it to a vet or some elsewhere they can have it tested.

If indeed it where a tape worm and it passed through the body, then it would be evidence for the view that parasitic infestation has difficulty taking hold where conditions aren't suited for it.

Parasites are real, in fact I have blood parasites living in me right now, that I have had for well over a decade, probably picked up from a tick bite, and because of my past heath issues my immune system was unable to clear them from the body. In my experience the best way to deal with possible parasite issues is to build, nourish and strengthen the body at the cellular level through optimizing the diet and lifestyle. Cooking everything, sterilizing everything, and avoiding all germs or worms is not an option. The people who try to do so, usually make themselves sick, because they never develop natural immunity to, or mutuality with, the lifeforms which share this world.

Parasites are not the original issue with most people who become infested. Case by case if you where to visit with those people who have become ill from parasite infections you will probably find a number of other environmental factors involved which allowed the parasite to gain hold in the body to begin with.

Statistics are bulkshit that leave out all the really relevant info.....example- 40,000 Americans die of complications from the flu virus every year, yet I doubt many of us here on this forum are lying awake in fear of the upcoming flu season. The people who die of the flu , like those who become ill with parasites are typically unhealthy due to other issues. What modern medicine has diagnosed as an infectious disease organism is more often a symptom of another condition.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: MaximilianKohler on October 22, 2015, 09:45:25 am
>So we have another account of worms without any evidence...... next time someone passes a worm, please take pictures, or even better take it to a vet or some elsewhere they can have it tested.

Yeah, I didn't know our testing methods were so unreliable so I didn't know I needed to do any of that. I did post a thread about it a couple years back though: http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/health/tapeworm-other-food-poisoning/ (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/health/tapeworm-other-food-poisoning/)

Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: TylerDurden on October 22, 2015, 02:01:23 pm
The media have been hyping the so-called dangers of bacteria and parasites for over a century. Yet it is all baseless. There have been no mass  food-poisoning epidemics in the raw-meat-eating community despite the fact that many eat aged raw meat/"high-meat". Parasites are hardly ever heard of, and the few times they have happened, almost all reports showed that they were largely harmless. Last I checked, some Instincto called Zephyr had a serious problem after eating a raw mongoose but that was decades ago.

I myself have been eating  a lot of raw wild game over 14 years and never got a parasite from them. The only time I got parasites was when I ate some dodgy raw horsemeat.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: dariorpl on October 22, 2015, 09:39:45 pm
In fact if these worms were so prevalent in raw meat, and their infection so pernicious then you would expect everyone of the veterans here to be infested, but this is not the case, so as a group of many people who have eaten raw meat for extended periods, without such issues, we place the burden of proof on anyone who claims that eating raw meat poses a greater risk of parasite infection.

This.

Although I do agree with AV that parasites are always helpful.

And I know you'll disagree, but I'm sure there are people right now working on discovering a simple way to poison people in such a way that the body requires massive parasites on a raw diet, and then they will try to poison us in this way, so that they can say, here, you see? raw meat eaters get all of these horrible parasites. In addition to this, they will probably start manufacturing stories of supposed raw meat eaters who got horrible parasite infections and died or almost died.  This forum is probably already infiltrated by some of these people, so I fully expect those stories to come up here as well.

But the fact will remain that up until this point, what you said has been the case, so even if it changes in the future, they'll still have to explain why it hasn't happened up 'til now. And I'm sure they'll come up with some explanation. They'll say meats today didn't have as many parasites as meats in the future, or whatever.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: MaximilianKohler on November 02, 2015, 02:56:55 am
Article I just read about helpful worms vs parasitic ones: http://gizmodo.com/sounds-gross-but-intestinal-worms-can-actually-be-good-1739599281 (http://gizmodo.com/sounds-gross-but-intestinal-worms-can-actually-be-good-1739599281)

Quote
This forum is probably already infiltrated by some of these people, so I fully expect those stories to come up here as well.
You really think people would dedicate that much of their time to do something like that? That seems incredibly paranoid.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: cherimoya_kid on November 02, 2015, 03:05:28 am
Article I just read about helpful worms vs parasitic ones: http://gizmodo.com/sounds-gross-but-intestinal-worms-can-actually-be-good-1739599281 (http://gizmodo.com/sounds-gross-but-intestinal-worms-can-actually-be-good-1739599281)
You really think people would dedicate that much of their time to do something like that? That seems incredibly paranoid.

1. That was a good article. Really good. I didn't realize the range of allergic conditions that are being treated with these helminth worms.

2. Do not trust Big Pharma. While I don't think they have any actual trolls here now, I wouldn't put it past them if we get big enough.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: MaximilianKohler on November 02, 2015, 03:31:49 am
Who is "they"?

I can see some kinds of raw vegan types doing some trolling, but you guys seem to be scared of a different entity.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: cherimoya_kid on November 02, 2015, 03:41:16 am
Who is "they"?

I can see some kinds of raw vegan types doing some trolling, but you guys seem to be scared of a different entity.

You "can see" some raw vegans trolling? Dude, we must have banned DurianRider at least a dozen times. Then there was SuperInfinity, I banned him at least 5 times myself, plus other people banned him as well. And there have been plenty of other vegans trolling, just no one as persistent as DR or SuperInfinity.

So yeah, we have had a lot of trolls here. And it's not that I'm afraid that we wouldn't catch any trolls from Big Pharma. Either they'd be too obvious and get banned, or they'd actually make the place better by forcing us to be even more evidence-based. I do not fear such trolls. Your enemy is the only person who'll tell you the negatives about yourself, so let them bring it on.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: dariorpl on November 02, 2015, 07:16:27 am
Article I just read about helpful worms vs parasitic ones: http://gizmodo.com/sounds-gross-but-intestinal-worms-can-actually-be-good-1739599281 (http://gizmodo.com/sounds-gross-but-intestinal-worms-can-actually-be-good-1739599281)
You really think people would dedicate that much of their time to do something like that? That seems incredibly paranoid.

Interesting article. And yes, I do believe that, and yes, maybe that makes me paranoid. But you know what they say, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: dariorpl on November 02, 2015, 07:18:48 am
cherimoya, it isn't just big pharma, and it isn't just trolling. Trolling is quite benign compared to the stuff these people are willing to do to further their goals.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: cherimoya_kid on November 02, 2015, 07:51:03 am
cherimoya, it isn't just big pharma, and it isn't just trolling. Trolling is quite benign compared to the stuff these people are willing to do to further their goals.

Big Pharma has the combination of money, knowledge, and financial incentive that makes them most likely. I mean, sure, the junk food industry wishes we would go away too, but I doubt they would bother trolling nutrition forums.

And I know about a lot of the bad stuff they've done. Who cares? The truth will out, and the truth will set everyone free, and within our lifetimes, too, I think.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: dariorpl on November 02, 2015, 08:05:17 am
I wish I had your optimism
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: MaximilianKohler on November 02, 2015, 04:34:22 pm
I really doubt big pharma companies would bother going on a small online forum to mess with fewer than 50 raw fooders.

This forum is not making a dent in their profits.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: dariorpl on November 02, 2015, 04:50:08 pm
Powerful people have learned that problems are best nipped in the bud. And, don't kid yourself, they know all about the raw diet. They're on it themselves. It's why they drink blood and whatnot. Whenever one of them is outed, people say they're satanic. Well maybe they are and maybe they aren't, but the blood is healthy and they know it.

They just don't want that level of health for the masses, which they despise and want to eliminate and replace them with robots. Or at least make them sick and dependent and make them act like robots.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: MaximilianKohler on November 02, 2015, 05:34:30 pm
omg, lmao.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: JeuneKoq on November 02, 2015, 07:06:07 pm
^Alluminoty agent confirmed. Must ban at once before he spreads more doubt about "their" existence, and "their" relentless attempt to silence us for good. I recommend members of the forum to wear tin foil hats for a week, before it's safe to discuss raw meat again.


Just messing with you guys  ;) don't ban me plz
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: raw on November 17, 2015, 12:12:28 am
We are eating shell fish at least 5 days a week. Making entire raw fish smoothy for two days aweek. Any fish that is wild caught and small in size are good for the smoothy. Amazing raw sea food
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: a_real_man on May 09, 2017, 10:45:06 pm
You really think people would dedicate that much of their time to do something like that? That seems incredibly paranoid.

I frequent a men's-only forum that has a rigorous vetting process. We regularly find trolls and imposters. This same movement began small and has been growing... at this point it is unstoppable but nipping it in the bud/censoring it/trolling in the early stages would have been the most effective means to shutting it down. I understand your skepticism but it's a fallacy to think that other people are like yourself (e.g., wouldn't waste time trolling). The reality is that there *are* people extremely different, with motivations you would find odd. Heck, anyone here that eats raw meat would be almost unimaginable to the common person, so we are living proof of that.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: Alive on May 10, 2017, 05:29:59 am
I'm thinking that if you lived a healthy lifestyle then you would be able to keep your bodys foreign inhabitants in check.

But if you were in an unhealthy state then they could cause serious harm or death. So if someone lives on an unhealthy diet then eating some things raw could cause problems.

For example years ago I went to a party and consumed bread and supermarket juice and raw meat, bingo some of the meat microbes got out of control eating the carbs and sugar, making me feel sick. After throwing up I felt fine.

So there could be a civilisation tiping point where grain consumption levels favor the consumption of cooked meat.

Japanese cope with fish worms by eating lots of wasabi.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: FRANCIS HOWARD BOND on November 02, 2018, 07:13:09 am
Found one anisakis worm in my Raw Cod tonight, although it has been in the 'fridge for several weeks.   Still alive, so pulled it out and enjoyed the high Cod, which are known to have this problem through feeding on the bottom.    Always take them out, if found, as they can leave a painful stomach for a few days till they die and get expelled.   Freezing the Cod can get them to die.
Title: Re: Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms
Post by: thehadezb on November 09, 2018, 05:08:51 am
Is any case of strict carnivores diyng from worms or parasites? i.e. big cats or wolves.
I remember that on pottenger study, the cats that were fed raw get rid of their parasitic infection.
This is a very interesting topic with multiple nuances. There is a podcast just about parasites. I don't remember the name.