Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Members' Journals => Journals => Topic started by: Josh on April 28, 2009, 10:57:32 pm
-
Hi there.
I'm gonna jump straight in and start keeping a journal, for my own records and hopefully to interest others in the future. I'm gonna go fairly fast into a purely carnivorous diet, because I want to see what happens and I have some liberty to take 'sick days' for the time being if I feel any adaption effects. When I see what happens, I can experiment with dialling in carbs as necessary.
Starting out, I think my body must be used to ketogenic activity to a certain extent as I have been low carb for a while, fast regularly and seem to get energy from fat ok. Still not clear on the exact difference between ketogenic activity, ketosis, ketoacidos and other terms. If I'm gonna do this though, I'll have to use intuition and dead reckoning, as I don't see myself getting biomarkers checked etc checked for a while.
I've bought some supermarket organic mince until I find a supplier, and a bit of tuna steak. Most beef is fairly grass fed in the UK apparently, so I reckon it will be better than eating whatever I would have had anyway.
I intend to use up my stocks of olive, coconut and fish oil to make up fat intake while I locate supplies of suet, marrow etc.
TylerDurden kindly pointed me in the direction of some farmers markets, so will visit a few of those at the weekend to see what's going on.
My current exercises are running, http://www.shovelglove.com/ (http://www.shovelglove.com/), and tai chi. I'm going to try and do a bit of each every day instead of seperate workouts, to hopefully ease my body into the process and keep burning off glycogen.
Peace.
Josh
-
Felt fantastic yesterday...I think this is the first stage of going into ketosis, burning up glycogen by fasting and exercising. By experience with low carb I expect the high to lessen then fog and fatigue to come on, but we'll see.
Had my first meal of raw mince last night, backed up with some olive and coconut.
It tasted ok...pretty neutral. After I ate a bit, I started to get some slight gagging. I got down about 250g and left the other half of the packet for later. Bloody hell, it was undigestible...it felt like a lead weight in my stomach all night. I was constipated today as well. I think I will make some lightly seared burgers today...cheating, but I need to get some nutrition while I'm adapting.
I tried making a kind of stroganina with thin slices of frozen raw tuna steak and a bit of dressing. It wasn't very nice. I think it would work with salmon though.
Today I'm going to eat a few raw eggs that I know I can handle and my rare burgers.
-
I seared meat for a while. Sounds like you're off to a good start.
-
Thanks man.
I woke up today feeling very brain foggy. General energy level was ok.
I went for my run and ran for about 20 mins over rough ground. I got out of breath very quickly and felt a bit achy, but pushed myself moderately.
I felt a craving for some bitter leaves, so ate a little bit of lettuce and chard. I'm not sure if this was the right move, but I feel very good now. Loads of energy and a clear head. Not sure if it's from the lettuce or fasting or what.
I don't feel the need for food at all yet today, so may just fast. I want to avoid starvation mode and lowering my metabolism. Maybe I will just eat fats..olive and coconut.
Peace.
-
Had 2 eggs and some fat last night. I have reasonable energy levels, but don't feel like eating much.
Hope this is not a sign of starvation mode. I have a feeling that I should eat some heart. I'm gonna try and hunt some down today...not literally unfortunately :)
I saw a sheep carcass in a meat lorry today and as a thought experiment imagined pulling bits off and tucking in. Felt ok...better than before.
-
Yesterday I had another bowl of raw mince. I ate my fats first, which I think helped it go down, and had a couple of raw eggs for dessert.
It felt like it was sitting in my stomach better...not such a 'lead weight'...however about an hour after I felt very strange...I had very mild nausea and my guts were gurgling like crazy. The strange thing was though I was feeling massive surges of energy and libido...weird. This went on for about 4 hours.
After it settled down I felt a warm glow in my stomach, and went to sleep. Today I feel a bit seedy to be honest...had loose stools and feel a bit ill. Not too bad though...there's something good about it that makes me want to see it through.
I ate a few random greens from an allotment in the morning...wild garlic and a few flowers.
Onward and upward...
-
My experience has always been that cooked food, in particular grains and dairy and other neolithic fare, feel to sit in my stomach for a long time. Raw meat, of all the foods I've ever eaten whether for taste or health, seems to digest the easiest for me, calorie for calorie.
-
Think I tracked down the stomach problems...seems to be vitamin pills I was taking with the meal. Something about the combo with meat/0 carb doesn't work.
Couple of days ago I bought some raw mutton. The fat tasted good...kind of like chocolate in a funny sort of way. The meat tasted kind of good...I think I could get a taste for it. It was hard to get the meal down even so. I'm not sure why...it tasted reasonable but something was telling me 'this is not food don't eat it'
I felt great yesterday...loads of energy. Today I hit a kind of wall and feel like death. The only kind of food I want to eat is carbs...have massive cravings. I feel tense weak and a bit crazy. I've been eating various kinds of dried meat just to get some food into me.
A big problem is that I just haven't been hungry..haven't been able to eat enough to keep me going.
I think it's important to find a source of suet. Coconut oil is more ketogenic...this might be part of the problem..making me lose weight. I'm having a good look round today.
I'm gonna keep eating as much dried meat as I want as well...starving will just ruin the whole thing.
I'm determined to see this through and see if it works...otherwise I'll be eating carbs and never know if I could have got through the bad times.
Peace.
-
I got stomach-aches when I mixed supplements like vitamin pills with any raw food. That was early on in the diet when I still had a couple months' supply of vitamin/mineral etc. supplements to use up - however, in the end, I decided to throw the rest away rather than finish all of them.
Re carb-cravings/total loss of appetite for meats:- Sound as though you're going through what I did(re feeling like death, having to force myself to eat small amounts of meats my body didn't want etc.) Keep at it for a short while, if you want, but don't go on to the bitter end as it could easily get dangerous, otherwise. I gave up on raw, zero-carb after 2 or 3 serious tries, and my health certainly hasn't suffered as a result. Most of the successful zero-carbers I've read about seem to only experience a few side-effects during the transition stage which soon vanish unlike the rather extreme highly negative experiences others like us have gone through re experimenting with zero-carb. If you can't get through this stage, I would suggest going low-carb/very-low-carb for a year before trying again, just in case, but that's all.
-
I don't know but perhaps some do so well because they eat cooked meat and fat to some degree?
Nicola
-
I don't know but perhaps some do so well because they eat cooked meat and fat to some degree?
Nicola
Rubbish. Cooked meat and fat contains so many heat-created toxins that it's inevitable that such people will develop health-problems over time. Look at the bear with his cancer.
-
Hi.
I'm gonna take Tyler's advice as it did seem to be getting a bit dangerous - dizzy spells, no toilet, hard to eat anything. Yesterday I just ate whatever...oats, blueberries, cooked meat to get some food into me then a run and big breakfast today.
I think a couple of things could possibly have happened...1) coconut oil may not be a good substitute for animal fat...it's good for giving you an energy boost, but it's known for making you lose weight.
2) because I'm not used to raw meals I just wasn't getting enough food and my metabolism slowed down
3) not ready for 0 carb for another reason
Some combination of the above put me in starvation mode.
So for now, I'm just eating a standard balanced diet...my plan is to get stocks of animal fat in suet, marrow etc and get used to shopping at the market. I will keep to a 'balanced' diet at first with some amount of cooked starches, and phase in raw meals with plenty of raw fat.
When I'm used to eating raw food, I can try going low carb with a bit of fruit, then maybe have another shot at 0 carb in the future if I want.
Also going to research the keto adaption thing more.
Peace.
PS - I had the thought that if the bear was a member of the grateful dead his throat probably took a lot of abuse one way or another!
-
ATTACK OF THE KILLER CARBS!!!
or 'guts gone wild'
by Candida Acidopholopholus
After deciding to eat balanced meals for a while, I'm afraid I overindulged in the carbs. I thought I had an excuse to give in to the carb cravings for a bit to put on a couple of pounds and get out of starvation mode. WRONG!!!
I had a few meals like curry and rice, noodles or potatoes and have to confess a few cakes and buns, and a load of fresh fruit. I should have taken it easy, but have been so strict with diet for so long that I guess I was looking for an excuse to crack.
I read on here that intestinal flora that live on different kinds of food can cause cravings for their dinner of choice. That seems to make sense with my recent experience. After giving into the carb cravings it seems like my intestinal flora got out of balance. I had terrible wind and diarrhea for 2 days..still have a funny fuzzy feeling and a sweet taste in my mouth. Although I felt ill, I still had a craving to eat more carbs and sweet things. Maybe giving up carbs for a bit caused them to die down, hence getting big cravings for their chosen food...then they flared up in response to the big carb input.
Seems to have settled down a bit now. I ate a large quantity of salty dried meat (biltong) which seemed to help a lot. Anyway I've learned something from the experience...carb cravings are probably just the microorganisms talking, don't listen.
Also made me think not to underestimate the importance of enjoyment in diet. I've been trying to eat in the way that's functionally best for my body. Even if it turns out that zero carb is the ultimate diet (which I'm not sure of after reading a few things), it still might be best to eat a bit of fruit or whatever for the pure enjoyment factor. After all, most of us want to stick to this for the rest of our lives so you have to factor in a bit of pleasure in the equation.
Anyway, I'm gonna shoot for about 100g carb a day for now and get used to shopping and eating raw paleo...then see if I want to go any lower.
-
Try keeping paleo carbs in the house but only eat them when you have a craving. I like berries and raw unheated honey.
-
When I have a carb craving, I eat raw surloin steak, thinly sliced and mixed with chopped Granny Smith apples, dripped in lightly heated coconut oil.....Eliminates my craving immediately.
-
Hi. Yeh, carb cravings are a funny one. I don't usually have a problem being disciplined...the question is how much should I give in to carb cravings? How many carbs do I need or want? I don't think anyone has a definitive answer at the moment.
I've been eating some raw meat and cooked meat on alternate days. My cooked meals have been a bit shoddy to be honest...had a kebab yesterday lol. I'm gonna sort that out and cook healthy food. I feel that I have to see this as a long term transition...a post said that it could take 8-12 months to get a proper taste for raw meat for a start.
I got a few rump steaks at the weekend and been eating them raw and cooked. The steak is very easy to eat and digests pretty easily. I would recommend this for newbies. I also got some liver which is a bit more challenging! When I eat it there's something about it that's really good - I can see why it is a prized delicacy. However, it does have a dark musky taste as well which is gonna take a bit of getting used to.
Still need some fat...hopefully will be able to order some suet and marrow soon. I feel that this could be key...raw fat is easy to eat and will hopefully get my ketones up and running nicely.
Peace.
-
I also got some liver which is a bit more challenging! When I eat it there's something about it that's really good - I can see why it is a prized delicacy. However, it does have a dark musky taste as well which is gonna take a bit of getting used to.
I have the exact same experience with liver. Like there's an instinctual desire to eat more, even though it just tastes so strong. One thing you can try is what Kyle said, to keep some berries and honey around, eat them as small snacks. When I first started I liked to eat them with coconut oil, though I don't eat coconut oil anymore.
If you're looking for fat, maybe try avocado with steak, or ribs and ribeyes. I know they're a bit expenisve tho. A less expensive option is to eat some nuts (tho they're probably not ideal in any more than small amts) - almonds, pecans, walnuts, pumpkin seeds are high in fat, low in carbs. Also, you can try eating bell peppers and tomatoes with your beef. Or sometimes I'll eat a lemon or a lime randomly during the day if I'm feeling it.
I find that I can't do 0 carbs either, whether I've gone cold turkey or tried a gradual shift. I don't even need carbs every day, but I do need them occasionally. I would be willing to bet if you ate just a some bell peppers/tomatoes or avocado with your beef, and maybe a few berries every day, you could keep your carb cravings at bay without any loss of energy.
-
I did buy some avocados but now find that I have lost my taste for vegetables...just don't want them. I'm eating fruit and meat, which may be no bad thing.
I picked up some organ meats on Sunday - hearts, lambs liver, beef kidney. I find kidney tastier than liver which is surprising. Lamb heart is great though...tangy and soft and easy to digest.
My diet has been looking like: a couple of raw egg yolks for breakfast, some grazing in the day on fruit and nuts and a meat and fat meal in the evening, cooked and raw alternate days.
I think this has helped, because when I couldn't eat enough raw I could compensate by getting more food the next day.
I think it's time to move towards all raw though.
I've been feeling great...starting to approach how I felt on a healthy 'balanced' diet. There could be a few reasons. I am eating a fair amount of paleo carbs...maybe 2-3 apples a day, some berries and a fair amount of nuts.
Also been exercising hard every day, and keeping up the tai chi and other disciplines which may be a factor.
But hopefully, this means that I am getting used to the raw diet and it will carry on. I'm going to gradually cut the carbs down...I already use fasts and semi fasts to get some ketones going so hopefully it will work out.
Josh
-
Actually, most RAFers find liver the most difficult raw organ to get used to. Kidney probably comes 2nd-last. I took an instant liking to raw kidney, having had it as a child, but liver took ages for me to handle the taste of.
Re vegetables:- Standard vegetables like kale/broccoli etc. aren't really meant to be eaten raw due to a particularly hefty amount of (rather specific) antinutrients in them, and quite a number of RAFers experience issues with raw avocadoes(well, certainly, I do, and I can't easily handle other kinds of raw vegetable-fats, either).
My solution was to just experiment and duly found that carrots (1 bunch once a year or so) and samphire(eaten in small amounts but regularly for 1 to 3 months of the year) and a few other vegetables like radishes work fine for me and are also quite tasty, unlike broccoli et al. I even recently did an experiment with raw salad lettuce soaked in raw apple-cider vinegar.
-
I have had probs w/ avocado in the past (after I started the diet), but I seem to do okay now. I think part of the prob was I ate 1-2 every day when I first started, now I eat 1/2 - 1 every other day. I can't eat raw carrots or broccoli, they make my stomach hurt. If I do eat them, it is steamed and b/c I'm at a restaurant ordering the rarest steak they'll give me.
Tyler, how did you like the ACV soaked lettuce? How did it work for you? I used to make some great tasting salads w/ lettuce, spinach, tomato, bell pepper, jalapenos, onions, garlic, ginger, and a honey/ACV mixture for dressing. I toss in tupperware and let soak for a bit in the fridge. Haven't done that in a long time now. Tasted great, but I always end up eating too much and get a sore stomach.
-
Well it's an acquired taste but I just love the sharp taste of raw apple-cider vinegar. Previously, I was very reluctant to try the raw salads that acquaintances often foisted on me as the oils and vinegar was always processed and I'm not too fond of raw veg without extra oils(except carrots and radishes which I do fine on). Now that I know I can easily find the raw vinegar anywhere, it's not such a problem any more.
Re pains in stomach:- Yes, that's what I get with some antinutrient-rich foods. I get them from sushi(due to the cooked rice etc.), most raw mushrooms(but not all), and raw nuts if eaten in large quantities.
-
Well it's an acquired tasted but I just love the sharp taste of raw apple-cider vinegar.
I wonder why you crave vinegar? Paleo? I have read (German) about digestive/health eschews threw acids.
-
I wonder why you crave vinegar? Paleo? I have read (German) about digestive/health eschews threw acids.
I don't necessarily crave raw vinegar but I like to experiment with foods, now and then, without having to delve into forbidden foods. Plus, eating raw carbs in the company of SAD-eaters is a hell of a lot easier than eating raw meats. And I find that cooked animal food is very unhealthy for me, so a raw salad seems a nice compromise.
-
Well, annoyingly it looks like I'm going to have to give up for now, not by choice, but I don't have sufficient sources of fat at the moment. The online supplier I was gonna order from doesn't actually let you order as much as you need >: :) I'm gonna need at least what...60g a day min, and have found from experience that the vegetable oils don't work.
I'm gonna have to revert to eating starchy carbs for a while, and raw meat doesn't seem to mix with that. Hopefully soon I'll be in a position soon to do all the phone calls and find some reliable places to get suet, marrow, hide fat etc.
Will update when I hopefully get back on the wagon.
-
Why go for unhealthy starchy carbs when you can get perfectly good raw carbs(eg:- raw, organic fruit)?
-
Basically crashes and cravings...if I try and meet my energy needs with fruit, I end up getting carb crashes and craving more and more.
Maybe it's cause of the seasonal nature of fruit - people hypothesise that we're programmed to feast on berries when they're around to store calories.
This is probably unhealthy all the time as it will cause insulin spikes, be pro aging and all that. I'm not sure which is the lesser of two evils, but I can function on slow digesting carbs but don't seem to on mainly fruit.
You probably can get away with a fair bit of carbs if you've got enough fat in the first place - maybe the body will still be geared up for fat as the primary fuel.
I dunno. I just feel that I need enough fat to do it properly...if I just have a few marrow bones here and there and a bit of tongue, my system isn't settled on one thing or the other if that makes sense.
-
hey josh,
what about maybe a fatty ground meat and raw egg yolks? i don't know if that works for you, but it would be easier to find an immediate source?
if eating starch/carbs works for you, that's one thing, but your writing sounds like you're making compromises.
-
If you feel you don't have the resources to do the diet now then don't stress about it, but I would caution against the "I'll get to it when the stars and planets and moons align" syndrome that I see occasionally in others and myself as well. It is sooooooo much easier to plan something like this and not get to it than to give it a whirl.
-
Thanks appeciate the replies gang. Yeh, I will make a plan and carry it out...basically stockpile fatty things in the freezer until I have enough to last for a while, then hopefully I will have picked up some regular contacts.
I didn't get on with the old mince meat and eggs plan when I tried it zero carb....I could give it a go with a bit of fruit, but think I will have the fat as a backup reserve first in case it doesn't work out.
It's too wrenching to try and go in and out of fat adaption every couple of days or whatever.
-
Ok...I think I'm ready to give it another go from today. I've got some suet in my fridge and seem to have enough contacts for food :)
I was planning to do it at the weekend, but I had a big birthday and didn't manage it with the drinking. Myself and friends ate a fair amount of beef heart. My friends wife is Japanese and she had wasabi and soy sauce. I've bought some as it made eating raw strips of meat so enjoyable. I probably don't want to do it forever, but will make me look forward to meals which counts for a lot.
I'm going to have a bowl of raw oats and some olive oil for breakfast about 11, then raw meat and fat for dinner. I'll try gradually reducing the amount of oats. Again, not forever but I think it will help to have a slow digesting carb to keep energy stable.
Tongue for dinner tonight...
See you later.
J
-
Well I was sick as a dog last night. Not sure why...possible eating too much droewors - kind of dried jerky sausage - then eating raw at night.
Don't think it was food poisoning as that keeps going forever. I felt ok after I was sick.
This morning was ok though. I did a free weights workout. I didn't think I was going to get into that again, but it felt good to do it in moderation. Was great for the diet...I felt really hungry for meat after and had a big brunch of liver and ribeye steak.
The oats seem to work as a methodone to the carb heroin. 1 small bowl in the morning, and I can control the cravings all day. I still feel the burn which is probably good in terms of adapting. So today in terms of carbs I just had some oats am and a cup of blackberries in the afternoon.
Apart from that, eating marrow, suet, tongue hearts and steak without measuring. Trying to eat more and more fat and pushing myself a bit beyond the amount of meat I want to eat.
Looking forward to dinner! :)
-
Reads like you're doing well.
-
Hi. Haven't updated for a while, as I've just been going through a cycle of sticking to strict low carb raw paleo then messing it up with junk food.
I managed to do raw paleo for 2 1/2 weeks. I felt great in some ways. My skin was very young looking and tight (I got id for a knife and I'm 30 ffs. I felt very strong, and feel my muscle density may have increased. Also, about 2 weeks in, I noticed my eyesight suddenly become extremely clear and sharp. I don't have any particular problems in that regard, but it was amazing. Could be to do with the eye muscles improving, retina function or something in the brain...probably never know.
However, I experienced the very low energy and paranoia, bad brain function described in another thread and ended up eating junk.
Going to Oslo was one of the best things I've ever done, but it blew the diet out of the window. The jerky I made to take was spoiled and stinky for some reason. I took fat but it was hard to find any decent meat and had to make do with a savage exchange rate. It was mostly factory farmed mince. You can get frozen elk meat, but damn it's expensive.
I bought some frozen reindeer meat but it seemed partially cooked so I made a bolognese with it lol. Was very tasty anyway. The rest of the time, I ended up getting a breakfast buffet in the morning and ravaging it, loading up on cereal, bread n cheese n jam, crap salami and lots of coffee. Then more coffee and bolle (spiced fruit and choc buns)
It tasted good though :)
I was walking for 7 hours a day though so hopefully that helped limit the damage :) Interestingly, although I feel bad in some ways, my skin is reasonable (cheese fat?) and my minds working very quick and creatively - probably still full of caffeine lol.
Anyway, where I am now is that I've decided to do a hybrid of raw paleo and the diet I felt great on before all this. 'Rightly' or 'wrongly' I need to stabilise myself and have oomph for other things in my life for a while. May turn out to be a good way of transitioning as well.
So I will have raw meat, organs and fat for one meal a day. The other meal will be sweet potatoes, yam or oats if I'm in a hurry. I'll make a meal of it with some tinned tuna, fish curry etc, olive and coconut oil and some fruit. I will be taking a multimineral and vitamin d supplement and possibly a couple of others.
I will be aiming for about 60-70 grams of carb a day. Something like 21g from one cup of blueberries and less than a cup of sweet potato etc to make up the rest.
I just found out from wikipedia that you can dry sweet potato actually so I might stick it in the jerky maker. Anyone know if you can eat it raw?
I'll keep you posted how it goes.
-
I would not recommend eating dried fruits or veggies of any kind. Dried fruit is the single worst food for health that I know of. Sweet potatoes are full of sugar, so I would guess they have a similar effect.
-
The jerky I made to take was spoiled and stinky for some reason.
Probably too much water left in it.
I dry meat at 35C for at least 3 days, and render fat at >boiling temp of water for at least 24 hours; none of it has ever gone bad.
-
It was bad when I took it out the jerky maker. Dried it for 3 days. Maybe the temp dropped too low, but it is summer in the uk so seems strange. Have to look into it.
Re: dried sweet potatoes...why are they so bad in your opinion? I know with dried fruit it would be easy to eat a lot, but say if I ate the same amount I would have had cooked.
-
If you are going to eat dried sweet potatoes, I would eat them very sparingly, and pay close attention to how they make you feel. In general, carbs are not at all healthy when dried, unlike fat/meat. I don't hold out much hope for sweet potatoes being healthy when dried.
-
It was bad when I took it out the jerky maker. Dried it for 3 days. Maybe the temp dropped too low, but it is summer in the uk so seems strange. Have to look into it.
Then I'd guess not enough airflow - happened once to me when the electric power failed - my usual dryer has a fan.
-
If you are going to eat dried sweet potatoes, I would eat them very sparingly, and pay close attention to how they make you feel. In general, carbs are not at all healthy when dried, unlike fat/meat. I don't hold out much hope for sweet potatoes being healthy when dried.
Dried fat is healthy? I think aajonus says it's not. Also, I don't think I can digest meat that has been dried. I think this may depend of the individual's digestive process.
I did eat raw sweet potato the other day. I had a headache before that, and the headache went away after. The sweet potato may have helped me, but it was not dried.
-
Oats never appealed to me, except in cookies and granola, and appeal to me even less now. Bread was always more of a food holder to me than a tasty food in and of itself (except for the rare instances where I ate just-made homemade bread), though its convenience meant I ate a lot of it. I was always in search of a better tasting bread. I'd find one that seemed rather good, but then in a matter of months or so it would stop tasting good to me and just become a food holder again. It was quite easy for me to give up oats and bread. Never liked sweet potatoes.
Cereal and cheese hold no appeal for me anymore, though I used to like extra sharp cheddar cheese quite a bit, but that was increasingly becoming less tasty to me too, interestingly. I would have to eat sharper and sharper cheese to get pleasure from it, and then even the sharpest cheese no longer satisfied me, though for some reason I couldn't stop eating it. I later tested as extremely intolerant of, and allergic to, whey, casein and lactose, so perhaps I was addicted. Ice cream still appeals to me, but my memory of it grows vaguer by the day. Plus, the last time I tried to eat ice cream I got violently ill, which is quite a disincentive.
The memory of the taste of jam still appeals to me, but none of the things it goes on appeal to me except homemade flaxseed meal pancakes that I no longer eat, and eating it alone doesn't appeal to me, so overall I don't crave that either, despite the fruity sweetness.
So if you avoid these foods for as long as I have (about 2 - 5 years, depending on the food), any cravings you might have for any of these foods may go away. I'd say my cravings became pretty minimal after just 2-3 months. At this point I even forget they exist until someone reminds me.
Admittedly, I do miss berries and nondairy chocolate, which were some of the last treats I gave up, so they are still fresh in my memory, but I rarely think about the foods I have given up until others bring them up. Maybe that's why I've managed to stick pretty well to what I thought was healthy foods, with the main problem being that I didn't realize that I should be avoiding even more foods than I was (particularly carbs).
In retrospect, I think these practices have been key:
> I keep the "bad" foods out of my house and office workspace
> When shopping, I learn where my good foods are and go straight to them--if I look at the really bad foods I think of them as not being food at all (for example, I note how bland, bleached, dry and unappealing most baked goods look); I think about the time I'm saving with my simplified shopping list (and I've never liked shopping much)--heck, I don't even need a list anymore ;D
> If I have to share food storage space with someone, I keep my foods separate and easily accessible
> I try to keep plenty of my good foods on hand at all times at home and work
-
Admittedly, I do miss berries and nondairy chocolate, which were some of the last treats I gave up, so they are still fresh in my memory, but I rarely think about the foods I have given up until others bring them up.
I was rid of the chocolate craving by eating 1/2 ounce of Bakers' unsweetened chocolate, whenever I felt like it.
This was about every six months. The stuff is high in magnesium, a common deficiency, so maybe our system becomes better at gettin the magnesium from raw meat over time.
> When shopping, I learn where my good foods are and go straight to them--if I look at the really bad foods I think of them as not being food at all (for example, I note how bland, bleached, dry and unappealing most baked goods look); I think about the time I'm saving with my simplified shopping list (and I've never liked shopping much)--heck, I don't even need a list anymore ;D
I feel that there is no food fit for human consumption in food stores - I buy eggs there because there is no source of decent eggs locally. Lots of temptation there though, I usually buy a brace of bananas, once some ham. I eat this on the way home because there shall be no unfit food in my house.
-
...maybe our system becomes better at gettin the magnesium from raw meat over time.
Interesting observation. I never had a huge craving for chocolate, but I did feel a tug whenever I walked by the nondairy chocolate in the stores. Since I went ZC I feel less of a tug. I did have multiple symptoms of magnesium deficiency on SAD. Unfortunately, standard medical tests for measuring magnesium levels are notoriously inadequate, inaccurate and expensive, but these symptoms did improve when I took magnesium supplements for a time and when I went ZC and ate more raw meat. So I think you may be on to something there.
Strangely, straight dark chocolate upsets my stomach, but not so much dark chocolate with some mint or nuts added to it (although even they could if I ate too much of it). It doesn't make sense to me and I told myself it was just psychological, but that didn't work. At any rate, I'm not eating it anymore since I went ZC.
I feel that there is no food fit for human consumption in food stores - I buy eggs there because there is no source of decent eggs locally. Lots of temptation there though, I usually buy a brace of bananas, once some ham.
I envy you. Once I have a freezer and am more used to raw meats I hope to buy more from direct sources.
I eat this on the way home because there shall be no unfit food in my house.
Good policy.
-
I think for me at the moment having a 'healthy' cooked meal with carbs is the lesser of two evils vs having only paleo food in the house and then eating take away.
I just need to get my brain working for a while. Been trying paleo for at least 6 months...I'm capable of forcing myself to stick to it strictly, but the symptoms are too bad to handle when I need to interact with people, be out all day, build up my business etc.
Maybe this will turn out to be a gradual transition, or maybe at some point in the future I will need to try and go hardcore again. The way I look at it now, even if I ate a semi raw semi kitavan diet for the rest of my life, well that's not too shabby.
Re: jerky, thanks William I did put cloths on the edges of the box that time - trying to make a better seal. Maybe it needed the extra airflow from leaks! I'll try it with a bit of cheap steak.
-
I think for me at the moment having a 'healthy' cooked meal with carbs is the lesser of two evils vs having only paleo food in the house and then eating take away. ....
It's not necessary to go to quite those bad extremes when eating take away--at least not where I live. I become acquainted with what are the least bad options in my area and on the road so that I don't eat carby foods in those cases either. For fast foods this tends to be salads, plain pre-cooked burgers and chicken without buns, etc. Not ideal options, but better than carby cooked foods. For sit-down restaurants I try to go to sashimi, Brazilian, steak and seafood, and gourmet restaurants, if whomever I'm with will do so. I'm sure other people here who do more take away and eating out than I do will have better options.
One help for me is to always have jerky with tallow or pemmican on hand so I don't need take-away.
Re: jerky, thanks William I did put cloths on the edges of the box that time - trying to make a better seal. Maybe it needed the extra airflow from leaks! I'll try it with a bit of cheap steak.
I also find that the hot and humid weather of the summer causes mold to grow more quickly on my jerky, even when stored in paper bags, so I make somewhat smaller batches or eat them more quickly.
-
Appreciate the thoughts - there are also decent options for cooked 'paleo' near here - various kinds of ethnic grilled meats...tasty :), but that wasn't exactly what I meant. I was saying that if I only have meat and fruit in the house then when I feel that I must eat a cooked meal with starch to stabilise then I get take away.
I have the will to force myself, but the brain symptoms are too to carry out my life, and I just need to be able to function well for a while. Will probably try and cut out the starches when I can take a long holiday.
-
I get the impression that you are still doing low fat, if true, then an occasional fix with starch/carbs is inevitable.
Been there, done that. :(
A source of biologically acceptable animal fat is essential, and difficult for those of us who have no access to Slanker's tallow.
-
Nah...I was never low fat mate. I've been eating grass fed marrow, suet and tongue for a while and before that I always ate olive oil, coconut and fish.
When I was veggie back in the day, I used to eat tons of cheese and margarine!
-
The pemmican that some live on is either 70% or 80% fat by calorie; that's what I use for a standard.
-
.... I was saying that if I only have meat and fruit in the house then when I feel that I must eat a cooked meal with starch to stabilise then I get take away.
I don't know what you mean by "starch to stabilise"? Stabilise what? For me, I would do better with just meat & fat with some lower-sugar fruit than with adding starch. Starches are known craving inducers.
-
Josh, why the raw oats? I know they taste good, but oats are notoriously hard to digest. Don't they give you gas or bloating?
I know this forum is called "RAW Paleo Forum", but humans did not traditionally eat everything raw. Most of the time, foods from plant sources need to be "processed", because we can't digest them easily and they also have anti-nutrients that impede absorption of minerals. In the case for oats, that means soaking in an acidic solution for 24 hours and then possibly cooking. (That is, if you're going to eat carbs.) This is one of the first things I learned from the Weston A Price Foundation, and I've never heard anything to refute it.
It's true that the Gaelics did eat raw oats occasionally, rolled in butter, but they were aware of the risks. If someone were to come down with an illness, they knew to cut out the raw oats and that would usually solve the problem. Most of the time they would eat oats that had gone through several fermentation processes, and cooked.
-
Re: stabilise...in my experience so far when I go zero or low carb I get the mental symptoms, and eating a bit of starch every day makes them go away. Fruit just makes me want more fruit. Might not be perfect, but it'll do for now. I will try other combos later like low carb+mineral supp etc.
Re:oats - prefer sweet potato and yam, but if I haven't got time to cook can grab a bowl of oats. I seem to handle them ok, much better than wheat.
-
I haven't updated this for a while, because I didn't want any more false starts. It seems to be going really well now though.
Like I said, I believe an increase in fitness enabled me to adapt to higher fat easily. I'm now making up my own meals and aiming for 70%fat 30% protein. I've had one piece of fruit a day, sometimes 2.
I've cheated a fair bit with cooked meats, and even things like chocolate once or twice...but I seem to be much more stable with the longer term adaption. Before if I tasted carbs it was hard not to go on a carb binge, now I can just get back on the one piece of fruit a day without any probs. Digestive problems have not been an issue at all this time round.
I have had periods of low energy, but nothing like the exhaustion and paranoia I was experiencing.
So just keeping on, trying not to cheat too much and looking forward to getting full energy back.
-
I enjoyed my first paleo meal today. I haven't really had any problems eating raw meat unless it's very high, but never really enjoyed it until today. I wish I could say it's cause I've been so good about the diet and seeing improvements, but the truth is I've eaten a lot of crappy smoked meat and boozed the last few days around my birthday, and today when eating my raw tongue it's like my body was saying 'thank you at last something clean and raw' and it tasted really good.
Cooked food is like hitting your head against a brick wall: it feels nice when you stop.
-
I'm trying an experiment to see whether affecting my thyroid can give me more energy on low carb.
I'm taking 20 mg thyroid per day in the form of a supp containing mixed glands and organs, so it will not be a test of thyroid in isolation, but that would be very hard.
Edit: Having researched, lugol's iodine actually suppresses thyroid function at first, then increases so will not be using at first.
-
eating my raw tongue it's like my body was saying 'thank you at last something clean and raw' and it tasted really good.
Was it beef tongue? Tongue is the only organ that scares me because it had a nightmarish taste and odor the few times I tried it. Maybe I got spoiled tongues l)
-
They must have been spoiled. Tongue is very mild and inoffensive.
-
I didn't like tongue at all the first time I tried it and threw it out. It was fresh that day from the supermarket. I'm hoping that some day I'll come to like it like I have with liver.
-
Weird. To me fresh tongue has little taste. Then it gets a gentle sweetish aged flavour.
-
I've read people posting how they like tongue right away and frankly I can't comprehend it. I would have eaten liver before tongue, even before I liked liver. Maybe it's because I had eaten some liver in the past, and once in a while would like the taste of cooked calve's liver somewhat, whereas I had never tried tongue. Maybe instead of people just posting how much they love tongue they could explain why/how/etc.? To me it tasted rather bland as compared to blood-red meat and what flavor there was I didn't like at all and the texture was like a large, rough, tongue, which it is. :D It looked, tasted and felt gross to me. Granted, I know I would likely come to like it in time, but I'm nowhere near there yet. I was thinking maybe the next time I try it I would get it at a sushi/sashimi restaurant where the chef's cut most of it away so that it's more palatable for modern tastes, but I haven't seen it on any menus yet and when I tried cutting it down like a sushi chef in a video did it, I still didn't care for the inner part. My goal is to learn to tolerate as much of the animals I eat as possible for multiple reasons. Throwing away parts of the animal just doesn't make sense to me in the longer run.
-
You need to be specific when you talk about beef tongue. The back third is vastly different than the front third. The very back part is quite fatty and so supremely soft and very easy to eat. It almost melts in my mouth and is easily one of my favorite cuts. The front third is perhaps one of the worst cuts and is extremely hard to eat and is a constant reminder of biting my own tongue which mentally makes it that much harder to consume. A number of occasions I have simply thrown it out. Perhaps tongue from the supermarket is different from the tongue from slankers in that slankers give you every last piece that can be considered tongue - all the tissue at the very back wherever it connects to the rest of the head. Its much thicker and does not resemble the thin surfboard that we normally think of as tongue. The back third has probably at least half the weight of the tongues I get and probably at least 2/3 the calories.
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w223/greeksquared/tongue.jpg)
-
Thanks for that explanation, PD. I can't remember now whether I had learned that and tried the back part or not. I do recall trying various parts of it, including what looked like the least tongue-y and gristly parts, but perhaps I missed the way back.
-
This may be obvious, but you have to skin it! Use a knife to take off the rough surface skin.
-
Yes, I did, thanks, I actually eventually hacked it down to a narrow core, like the sushi chef in the video did, but I was surprised to discover that even the inner parts of it had a rough texture and bland taste of a tongue, like biting your own tongue, but PD explained that the best part is at the back.
-
In my experience even the front is fatty meat and quite slippery and smooth. The back is 'permeated' with solid fat.
Either we have different tastes or getting different tongues!
-
Yeah, I really don't know what people are talking about if the whole inside is supposed to be good. PD's info comes closer to matching my experience, though it was only one tongue. Maybe I'll have better luck in the future. Plus, I didn't like the taste or texture of marrow at first either, but am increasingly getting used to it. I can only get tongue and marrow from the supermarket, whereas I can get everything else from the healthfood market. Suet from the supermarket was also disgusting, whereas I like the grassfed suet at the healthfood market, so maybe that's the main factor.
-
I week and a day in, taking 20g of thyroid a day. My supplement has other glands in, so I can't say it's tested in isolation. I will try and get hold of some Dr Ron's at a later date.
I have been feeling similar to when I came back from a high altitude place...it feels like each breath is giving me energy, and the air is rich. Hard to explain. I also have a lot of energy in the mornings. Even though I haven't been training much I seem to have good energy for exercising.
However, I feel some brain fog and have had periods of tiredness in the afternoons. This could well be down to giving up caffeine though.
Seems quite promising.
-
I didn't want to speak too soon, but I'm 2 weeks into zero carb now. I only had one day of feeling very tired, the rest of the time it's been ok. I'm not on top form, but I could happily stay like this until I feel better.
I can't say for sure it was thyroid, as there's other factors. It was a mixed gland supplement, and I haven't tried zero carb for a while only low carb. However, I think that considering I had bad problems in the past on low carb, and even recently was not managing on 60g carb a day and now feel more or less fine on zero carb...IMO the thyroid made a big difference.
Now I have to decide if and when I'm going to add carb back into my diet.
One thing I've found difficult is that I've been having protein snacks after exercise in the evening, and it's easy to overeat. I think my body is being sneaky and trying to get protein to make up for the lack of carbs. I still don't know how to handle eating and exercising. Maybe a small amount of meat and fat in the evenings won't keep me awake as much as a full meal.
-
I thought I'd try eating <30g carb to see how I felt, so I had an apple yesterday. I didn't really like it...it was too sweet and I found it hard to finish. Today I feel less physically tense though. I can see why people get cramps, low/zero carb seems to increase the overall level of muscle tension at this point.
I'm not sure what to do. I'm quite happy to carry on zero carb in a way, but not sure if I want to go all the way down that route, as Lex has said that it compromises short bursts of energy, and that it may be a tradeoff between benefits from vlc and zero carb. I guess you just make a choice what you want. On paper vlc would seem to make sense, but I'm just enjoying the zero carb.
-
Well I haven't updated for a while but I think these diaries are useful for the readers and writers so here goes.
I've posted a thread about having problems feeling off-kilter where I realised that it's down to having food left in my gut. A couple of people have suggested I was eating too much. I was pushing myself to eat more. You could say that's wrong, but on the other hand I've had times where I didn't have any appetite and ended up in starvation mode, so maybe it's about striking a balance.
Anyway I've spent the last couple of days not eating meat and trying to get it out of my system. Drinking lots of warm water. I first tried eating a few courgettes, which seemed to help me go to the toilet and clear a bit out.
Yesterday I tried butter as a lubricant laxative. Mixed feelings. It did seem to help, but I had a stomachache that night.
Today I got a craving for green salad and olives so have just eaten it. I'll report back. I know dogs and cats eat greenery to purge so maybe there's something in it.
Maybe salad is healthy for most standard eaters because they need the constant purge.
On the plus side, it seems like I'm adapting well to low carb. I don't have any problems getting through my day with less than 30g of carb. Hard exercise has still made me feel tired the next day, so hopefully that will continue to improve.
There are two factors I've changed so don't know what is the main reason. One is taking blue ice fermented cod liver oil with high vitamin D. There are a few things on the internet about vitamin D and energy, but who knows what the truth is.
The second is that I am eating higher protein, about 60% fat 40% protein by calories.
Also if I was overeating, maybe I was getting enough energy from gluconeogenesis.
Hopefully it will hold up as I try eating less.
-
The green salad and olives predictably gave me the shoots, but I felt better for it. I'm going to repeat today.
I had a lot of raw egg yolks today, which tasted amazing and feel not bad now.
Tomorrow, I'm starting on meat again. Fingers crossed it wil go ok.
-
I have been gradually eating more meat for the last few days. Yesterday I had about 250g and today I feel bunged up.
I found an post in Lex's journal about constipation:
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/journals/lex's-journal/msg50245/#msg50245
Seems like it might just be par for the course for now. So I want to move away from trying to use salad to clear me out...I'm going to buy one of those syringes.
Feel happier though. Seems like it's not necessarily problems from eating too much, might just be adapting to lower amounts of fibre. Fingers crossed it will sort itself out.
-
Just been eating meats, egg yolks and 30g carb from fruit since the last post.
My digestion seems ok. Sometimes it's a couple of days between shitting, but it's not particularly uncomfortable.
My skin is a bit better, but not great. Don't know what's up with that. Maybe not recovered yet. I hope I can reach the heights of beauty I had with previous low carb experiments.
I tried mixing my mince with raw egg yolks 2 nights ago, as some people have reported that it's helped them. Not me! I felt nauseas straight after, and evacuated my bowels. Then felt a bit sick the rest of the night. Don't want to put you off trying it though, everyone's different, but don't try it just before an important meeting!
Peace out.
-
Since the last update, I've gone fully carnivore. I have been for over 3 weeks, and I feel ok which is a turn up for the books.
I'm beginning to suspect that earlier problems were more about digestion than macronutrient ratio. However I was VLC for 2 months beforehand so I expect that helped.
The carnivore thing just happened naturally. Carbs were getting on my nerves giving me a 'sugared out' feeling, or too much fruit in my stomach (at 30g carb per day btw which is not a lot) So I just did a few days without, and had no reason not to carry on.
My energy is fine. I don't have a massive amount of wind for exercise, but I'm continuing with volume training workouts with the weights of 10 sets/10 reps and 2 exercises, and they're pretty much ok.
If I do add carbs back in I will try refeeds not daily carbs. I craved carbs after my workout today, so there may be something in the idea, but I will see how 'zero carb' goes first.
I will still eat liver.
On the other hand, I've been finding it hard as ever to eat raw.
I have decided to use Johan August's idea of increasing raw meat by 10g a day. I have started with 20g today, and will increment it from there.
I won't measure cooked meat or limit it, I hope it will take care of itself as I eat more raw.
I may make an exception and binge on raw liver as it doesn't seem to give me many problems.
As things stand, it will take at least 50 days but I would have thought they'll be a tipping point, e.g. if you can eat 400g you can eat 500.
-
In other news, I am experimenting with supplements for ADHD-PI.
I have sorted out the fridge smell with barbecue charcoal. Have 3 small trays in the fridge with charcoal lumps, and the smell is hardly bad at all with 2 week old meat.
-
Since the last update, I've gone fully carnivore. I have been for over 3 weeks, and I feel ok which is a turn up for the books.
Sounds good!
-
Time for another break from the forum I feel. I don't think I have access to any grass fed fats here, and don't enjoy the questionable lamb mince at all.
I have also had many problems adapting to raw paleo and low carb which I've posted about repeatedly, and can't deal with the ups and downs with work and life at the moment. So back to doing the best I can with diet, and not thinking about how it's harming me too much!
Hopefully...someday...maybe I can be raw paleo. All the best in the meantime. Happy hunting!
-
Time for another break from the forum I feel. I don't think I have access to any grass fed fats here, and don't enjoy the questionable lamb mince at all.
I have also had many problems adapting to raw paleo and low carb which I've posted about repeatedly, and can't deal with the ups and downs with work and life at the moment. So back to doing the best I can with diet, and not thinking about how it's harming me too much!
Hopefully...someday...maybe I can be raw paleo. All the best in the meantime. Happy hunting!
Take care Josh. :)
-
... I ... don't enjoy the questionable lamb mince at all.
I ran into a problem with lamb mince. I picked out a lamb shoulder at a different Whole Foods Market where I haven't had them mince me anything before. It seems their grinding machine must have had leftover soap in it. Just wondering if you or others had this problem.
-
Thanks djr_81.
No idea about soap rawzi. This lamb is ready ground, but I'm just not convinced it's grass fed it seems much worse quality than some UK and I'm not confident eating it as a staple.
-
My butcher market often runs specials on ground lamb, so I tried some. Now, raw lamb is one of my favorite foods, but minced was objectionable to me, so I ended up throwing it out. Along this line, I used to like ground beef somewhat, and don't care for it anymore. But, the lamb was absolutely repugnant - maybe the fat doesn't take well to grinding.
-
..butcher market often runs specials on ground lamb, so I tried ... Now, raw lamb is one of my favorite..s, but minced was objectionable to me,.. I ended up throwing it out. ... But, the lamb was absolutely repugnant - maybe the fat doesn't take.. to grinding.
Maybe good lamb fat in fatty lamb picks up all their solvents from their grinding machines better than lean meat or grain-fed fat can. Smart way to get soap into us, the jerks!