Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Members' Journals => Journals => Topic started by: Ioanna on August 27, 2009, 08:42:23 am
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I think I'll start a journal today :)
Seems fitting as I just recently moved to a new city for a new job... it's a whole new beginning for me!
For now I can say it has been interesting how my new perspective has affected my emotions and, in turn, my perception of hunger. I absolutely hated my old job, and now I completely LOVE my new one!... a satisfaction that outweighs the fears/anxiety of having moved half-way across the country and far from family and friends.
I keep changing when and how many times a day I eat, though quantity has been pretty constant. So I was eating once a day (around 5pmish) for about a week because I was afraid that if I ate earlier I might get terrible stomach pains, and I don't want to work like that. But after about a week I started to get acid feeling in my throat in the late afternoon, so since yesterday I've been eating at 2pm and 6pm. I also (out of desperation) started yesterday both digestive enzymes and the fermented cod liver oil that Tyler and some others posted about (ahhhhh, it's so disgusting!!!), but I'm soooooo happy to find that I'm doing well again with no stomach/abdominal pain!!! I'm hoping it's the digesting enzymes because I don't want to take the CLO anymore, lol, but to be without pain is so wonderful, we'll see where I go next.
As I'm eating later in the day, I notice that I get a nautious feeling in the morning, maybe around 10am or so that last only a couple minutes... anyone get this or know what it means?
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I can't believe it!!! I just had the most normal bowel movement that I've had in YEARS!!!! I have no idea why or what I've done, but a ton of noticeable healing took place in the past 5 days that has brought me to today. Strange is that before this I seemed to be going downhill too. Out of desperation not to resort to medication I tried CLO (Tyler's reported brand), digestive enzymes (a broad range one), and one small meal around 5pm or so. After two days I stopped CLO because I hate the taste. So what has got me to where I am now??
A little more about where I am coming from...
As of end of May (Memorial Day weekend) I committed to no carbs. At about this time I also stopped taking any IBS medications (works, but causes me pretty bad joint pain that I couldn't handle anymore). I resorted to actually taking the medication in the first place because I was becoming so anemic and going to the bathroom a million times a day that I could not get my work done. Not having the 'security' of a medication I was very motivated not to 'cheat'. I felt the onset of some symptoms (some very soon, some gradually), nothing intolerable or keeping me from functioning in the world, but enough to keep a fear in my mind... and this is how I've been living the past 3 months... with varying degrees of tolerable reminders.
Last week, a huge life change! I've moved very from all friends and family to a place that I know noone. It's me and my dog! I like the adventure of it, but to say I was not conflicted with so many mixed emotions would be false too. I started a new job that I absolutely LOVE! I am so grateful and happy for that!!! My fears about IBS problems are peaked as I don't want to have any problems, especially now that I am alone and trying to make a new start. I notice that I am going downhill too, and I'm really scared. I'm not sure I want to post what was happening, but if you really want to know just pm me. And I didn't want to take any medication, the joint pain is too intolerable that my knees hurt even when laying down. It honestly seemed like the start of a downward spiral and I didn't know what to do!... hence the CLO, digestive enzymes, and one small meal (now two bc acid feeling, but same amount total food). At day one I knew I was doing better, but not good enough to report, same with day two, etc. And now today... I'm a normal metabolically functioning human today!... and I'm not sure why? I made dietary and emotional changes, or some coincidence of the passage of time?
In anycase, today is a most happy day!!! Only day 1, but I hope all of my issues are a thing of the past.
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Awesome Ioanna!
That's great to see your progress...
Eating 2 small meals in the afternoon seems to work great for you. I seem to function also very well with 2 medium meals between 2PM and 6PM. Before 2PM, I am tired by the digestion. Too late in the afternoon and my sleep is disturbed. Maybe it is the best period for our digestion to do its work ?
Keep us updated on your progress!
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Where'd you move to and what job did you take? I also skip breakfast and tend to eat two meals, one in the afternoon and one evening.
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thanks carnivore!!
kyle - when do you work out? i am actually hungry for breakfast, i'm just afraid if i get abdominal pain from eating and then have to work all day so i don't think about it and just eat later. i'm plenty distracted so it's easy. do you ever get a brief moment of nausea in the late morning? i've been making it a point not to eat anything until i have experienced this, like maybe it's some liver-associated thing?
i moved to [edit]. such a bittersweet move with the conflicting emotions and all, but i'm liking it here. people have been incredibly kind, that always helps. there are at least 5 grass-fed farms within 30-40 miles of me, so i'm excited to check them out.
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I usually work out at night because that's when the bjj classes I take are held, the day ones I usually can't make because of work. I sometimes feel a bit of nausea sometimes in the morning, my stomach sometimes seems to be grinding up against nothing and if I ate too many carbs the day before I think I get a bg drop that makes me feel a little weird. It's not too bad though.
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not sure if this makes any sense, but here's how it is at the moment...
everything is just fine as long as i am eating raw bison and fat.
-with raw beef i have very loose stools
-dehydrated bison at 85F more than 30-60 minutes begins to cause ibs symptoms, severity increasing with increasing dehydration time
-i tried a plain piece of cooked chicken to see if that could be my 'social' food, but my ibs came immediately and took me about 3 weeks of just fresh bison/fat to recover
-i tried a freshly picked apple a few weeks ago, ibs back immediately and about 1.5 weeks to recover
at times i crave extra fat, and when i give in to the craving, my digestion is so smooth. if i eat fat just to eat fat (like trying to eat a specific percentage or something), my digestion is horrible. i try to listen to my body in this regard as too much or too little affects me negatively, and that is something hard for me as i still sort of have this 'fat phobic' voice in my head.
so, at the moment i'm just eating fresh bison/fat. i don't know if this is good or not? but i have my health this way, and lose it when i deviate it seems. i am in awe when i walk into the break room at lunch hour to see what my coworkers can consume without suffering inflammation, and in awe of how sensitive i am to even cooked chicken or a freshly picked apple.
on another note, i've been thinking about trying tkd... will be my first martial art experience! i'm going to visit one tomorrow to watch and see what i think.
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I don't see it odd at all Ionna. :)
I have much the same with raw beef. Each time I've tried the lamb fat I purchased a long time ago and froze I get horrible gas, cramps, and eventually diarrhea. I also go through a malaise for a couple days. Raw chicken gave me a sore throat after 15 minutes as well. I'm going to try some pork this week but I'm not holding my breath on that one either. I figure my body knows what it needs and I'll just feed it that until it heals more. :)
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People with unusual health-problems will often have highly unusual food-intolerances to go with them. For example, in my own case, while many RPDers seem fine with raw eggs, I don't tolerate them well in quantity(but they're fine in small amounts). Just follow your body's instincts, as long as the raw bison is grassfed, it's not a problem. Do, however, try other varieties of raw meats such as raw lamb or raw wild hare or raw swordfish or whatever you have available in your local area. I've found, at times, that if I eat too much of a specific raw food too often over a long period of time, that my body stops digesting it properly and it just goes unabsorbed through my gut, so it's a good idea, IMo, to vary your diet if you can.
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I've found, at times, that if I eat too much of a specific raw food too often over a long period of time, that my body stops digesting it properly and it just goes unabsorbed through my gut, so it's a good idea, IMo, to vary your diet if you can.
Does this mean that Lex and all the others eating the same muscle meat and fat do not digest the specific raw food? What about all those eating pemmican or cooked muscle meat and fat for years on end?
We all just can not be shore what is going on - I know a man who is over 80 years and I ask him how's life..."Oh, I am very well, never have any problems with my health..." As he speaks I can see all his false teeth and his belly sticks out - so, yes he is healthy cause he believes it!!!
Nicola
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Does this mean that Lex and all the others eating the same muscle meat and fat do not digest the specific raw food? What about all those eating pemmican or cooked muscle meat and fat for years on end?
I believe that some people do need to eat the same food every day. I believe that other people need to vary their diet somewhat. I think I am of the latter group. I've never lived any length of time on just (raw) meat or had more than half a bite of pemmican at a time, so I can't be sure though.
I know we are not cats, but one of my cats will only eat (raw lean) bison muscle meat and nothing else, but in a real pinch may eat (raw) pork), (raw) chicken, interstitial fluid, blood, sardine juice or freerange canned catfood nothing else! She will only eat other than (raw) buffalo (muscle) if she hasn't had other food around that she will eat in a couple of days. You probably know cats' livers degrade if they haven't eaten in twenty-four hours. She obviously has a very real aversion to other than the bison. She will not touch (raw) beef no matter how long she hasn't eaten. My other cat will eat all the above, yogurt, honey, eggs, butter, cream, kefir and cheese "no questions asked".
I've seen it in people though too, even if in the same families. I've always been the one that needed variety. My only exception was doing Living Food LifestyleTM. I could eat the same concoction of energy soup meal after meal, month on end, no desire for other food. Problem was it made me have "pins and needles" constantly all over and look like I was from The Planet Bloodorange with black painful veins. Also, if I couldn't have my food, I had a paining and strange looking reaction right away.
In some poor regions people only eat rice and water.
Eat what makes you feel best. If any raw food makes you feel best, I can't see how it could be wrong, as long as it isn't dry beans or something like that. Is there an animal that lives on that?
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http://www.youtube.com/v/I7QoP4Y37RM (http://www.youtube.com/v/I7QoP4Y37RM)
Monodiets work, he says he studied paleo, and it works, he talks about 80% raw diet of Inuit.
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I've never heard of an exact figure given for the raw element in the Inuit diet. Is there any other corroboration of this 80% figure?
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Nicola, Lex doesn't advise people to eat like him (which is one reason I like his journal), nor do I, because I have no idea how you will react to what I eat. I just share my experience, along with some principles that help guide me in this direction, and speculations about what it all might mean. None of it is meant to be gospel. So, like others have said, I would say do what works for you and get periodic medical checkups to make sure you're making progress in unseen ways as well as more obvious ways.
I do take into consideration other people's difficulties, but I also try not to worry about them too much. It's a balancing act, I suppose.
I've never heard of an exact figure given for the raw element in the Inuit diet. Is there any other corroboration of this 80% figure?
I would be interested in the answer too, as I only recall reading post-European-contact ratios. Dr. Bass mentions Stefansson, but I thought that Stefansson claimed the Inuit diet had a higher ratio of cooked foods than what other explorers claimed?
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Correct. Stefansson was the only explorer who claimed that Inuit ate mostly cooked and only a little raw. The others all claim high amounts of raw-flesh consumption but aren't specific re the percentage.
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Tyler, are there 'easy' references you could point to for reading how the Inuit ate a lot more raw than Steffanson points out. He does write though about eating frozen fish throughout the winter.
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Stefansson's experience was of post-contact (or corrupt) Inuit.
In his first year with them, they may have had a bad year for hunting, as I have the impression that normally they would not be eating fish as a staple.
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Tyler, are there 'easy' references you could point to for reading how the Inuit ate a lot more raw than Steffanson points out. He does write though about eating frozen fish throughout the winter.
Just read Weston Price's Nutrition and Physical Degeneration book which contains the details. Also, there are numerous other online references re the multiple different types of raw animal foods that the Inuit ate(muktuk etc.) so that it is extremely difficult to accept Stefansson's claims. Incidentally, didn't I read somewhere that "Eskimo" means "eater of raw meat"?
And, yes, Stefansson did reluctantly accept that the Eskimos ate some high-fish. He was simply totally dishonest though in claiming that , taking overall diet into account, that the Eskimoes supposedly ate a higher proportion of cooked foods in their diet by comparison to eaters of modern cooked diets.
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IIRC W.A. Price's Inuit were not the same people at Stefansson's, being as they lived far to the west, and possibly in a warmer climate, so some differences in diet were possible.
Yes, "Eskimo" is a word from the language of Cree Indians, southern neighbours of the Inuit, and traditionally deadly enemies; means something like "they eat it raw".
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we had this health risk assessment at work today. it's voluntary, but the incentive to do it is monetary, so I got one done... i have nothing to compare these numbers to, and i wish i did....
cholesterol: 191
HDL: 78
cholesterol:HDL ratio: 2.5
that's really all they did, plus blood pressure.... i don't remember... it was a quick 10min thing
not sure what any of this really means with nothing to compare, but i'm certain my cholesterol went up a bit, thought it could be HDL?.. anyway, i don't care... this is almost 8 months of RAF.
edit: I forgot one... glucose... was a fasting level for me... the test was done around 830am and I had last eaten around 7/730pm the night before... 91.
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Those are very good numbers, as you may have guessed.
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I just wish I had something to compare to... I know I have had blood work done in the past, so I'll look but I doubt I'll find any records since I tend to throw everything away...
I don't remember my HDL being so high though, also my cholesterol is higher but it'd have to be. Would have been interesting to have the comparison to know for sure.
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What about triglicerides? 50-70 mg/dL?
Re cholesterol level - it's really unimportant.
Homocysteine level is better marker.
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Yes, just about anything is a better marker than total cholesterol, which is pretty useless. C reactive protein is another superior marker. Did you receive any other numbers, Ionna?
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What about triglicerides? 50-70 mg/dL?
Re cholesterol level - it's really unimportant.
Homocysteine level is better marker.
Yes, just about anything is a better marker than total cholesterol, which is pretty useless. C reactive protein is another superior marker. Did you receive any other numbers, Ionna?
Unfortunately those are the only numbers I have... it was just a quick/free thing and to cram in a bunch of people so the tests were limited. Oh well, I feel so great, I have no interest to get any test done... wish I had something from preRAF though. I'll keep looking.
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I really wanted to see Les Miserables this year, but it's a UK year... lot's of shows in London and I always wanted to visit London and specifically to include visiting the theatre, hmmmm....
Well, anyone near London has a great touring musical!... if you're into that kinda thing :)
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I started at one day aged and now eating two to three day aged meat. I just keep it uncovered in the refrigerator. This is so extremely agreeable for me, I continue to see improvements in my digestion. Makes me think that high meat will probably be great, but I'm not that brave yet -[
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I started at one day aged and now eating two to three day aged meat.
Ionna, it's really the fresh meat :)
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i've been doing so well with the aged meats (tends to be about 3-7 or so days depending on when i get to it, but i just put a whole bunch of meat in the fridge that will take me quite some time to eat) that i just since this past week try aging and then eating more varieties of meats/fats and from more varieties of sources that had been a problem for me up until now. Aging the meat or fat (e.g. bone marrow had been a problem until yesterday) has made more foods for me! :)
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I just want to add that this was brave experimentation for me since if it didn't work I would have had quite a painful weekend, lol.
I'm going to try aging more variety... maybe organs soon and maybe different animal type. Maybe I'll even try keeping at room temp? (Who does this?... please tell me about how/where/time duration you keep meats.)
I tried aging two foods; one is bone marrow and the other is beef (instead of the bison i usually get) from 'my' farmer. Both I always enjoyed the taste, but they didn't digest well at all. Aged they digest just fine. So, after this weekend, the foods I can eat with ease of digestion went from 2 to 4. Can't wait to try more! :)
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Have you been aging bones with marrow? AFAIK they devolop "smell" very rapidly ;)
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Have you been aging bones with marrow? AFAIK they devolop "smell" very rapidly ;)
I've been scooping out the marrow and mushing it in with the meat.
I give the bone to my dog to gnaw on, and yep.. they smell!
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i've been doing so well with the aged meats (tends to be about 3-7 or so days depending on when i get to it, but i just put a whole bunch of meat in the fridge that will take me quite some time to eat) that i just since this past week try aging and then eating more varieties of meats/fats and from more varieties of sources that had been a problem for me up until now. Aging the meat or fat (e.g. bone marrow had been a problem until yesterday) has made more foods for me! :)
That's great to hear! I've found the same thing. Air-aged suet tastes better to me and seems to digest a bit better (and my fat digestion has also continually improved) so that I no longer need to make suet into tallow unless I want to.
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Phil, you mean your fat digestion's actually improved over time? Or just that aged-suet is easier to digest?
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I'm not sure, since both happened together, so it's hard to separate them out. I do know that the aged suet is much easier to chew, so I suspect it may digest better.
It's also probably even more important to drink plenty of water when eating partially dried meats and fats.
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Congratulations Ioanna. I know that feeling of dread/anxiety due to an ever-dwindling list of "safe foods" and the joy of finding a way to reverse it. It's great to hear that you've found a way for yourself. ;D
Have you had a chance to try any organs like you've mentioned you wanted to do in the past? It's a whole 'nother vista of foods to enjoy if they sit well. :)
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thanks paleophil and djr!
Have you had a chance to try any organs like you've mentioned you wanted to do in the past? It's a whole 'nother vista of foods to enjoy if they sit well. :)
not yet, i've been afraid... , but now i'm feeling much more confident. i think i'll try mixing some small or ground pieces in with my meat and then letting that age for a few days. i'm so excited!!... i'll let you know :) ... probably will take me a couple weeks.
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You've mentioned before that your IBS is cured by eating raw meat but you have noticed no other improvements? Is that still the case?
What sort of workouts do you do?
Do you plan to go add more socially friendly foods?
Thanks
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You've mentioned before that your IBS is cured by eating raw meat but you have noticed no other improvements? Is that still the case?
Well, IBS was my greatest obstacle... I'm not sure what else to use as a measure for improvement or if you have something in mind? I don't think I've changed on the outside. If you count these as improvements: I've learned to listen to myself over my peers, doctors, and 'gurus'... I have confidence (both restored and gained)... I just know my body is thriving now. I have very dry skin at my heels... if that ever clears up I'll be shocked!, but I'll let you know. I used to burp all the time.. like in the morning during a workout I'd be tasting whatever I ate the last evening... that stopped immediately, I almost forgot to mention that it was so long ago.
What sort of workouts do you do?
I used to be into endurance training... mainly swimming and triathlons ('sprint distance', not ironman or anything close!) with weights on the side. I did well in races, so I just kept doing them. I like racing, and I like the mental component... like I'm sure I've finished ahead of competitors just because I didn't 'give up' first. I started getting recognition in my town among triathloners... people were willing to pay me ridiculous amount of money imo for an hour swim lesson or so. So the sport started becoming a life style. I had to be sure to get enough sleep though or I will be an emotional wreck and very irritated. My body type has never been as toned as I would like... more just skinny wo definition.
Now I'm trying something new... sprinting and heavy weights... to see how my body adjusts. It's winter, so I've been mostly wight training and joined a volleyball team, yoga on the weekend.
Do you plan to go add more socially friendly foods?
Thanks
No.. I'm too scared!!... I tried a cooked chicken breast (was either from my farmer or hfs, and totally plain) a few months ago and that brought me right back to 'square one'... I have no idea why... but if chicken doesn't work, I don't know what will? I hate it, but I am anti-social eater entirely -[
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And I'm still trying to figure out the timing/number of meals.
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Thanks Ioanna.
Interesting to hear about your triathlons, I think weights and sprints are healthier than Tri's. Over exercising can make me moody while weight HIIT chill me out. You sound like you were a Tri natural.
If your heels ever heal, let me know! Mine have improved but not totally. They still annoy me.
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I've never had dry heels, so this is just a hunch. Pumice stones to remove excess, and then rubbing marrow into the skin routinely. And I think it is important to routinely scrape the excess dry skin off. I think it interferes with natural sluffing of cells. This would have happened naturally due to going barefoot or walking as much as we would have on natural terrain.
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over the weekend i ate a most satisfying meal of bone marrow with some lean... was so tasty and satisfying... neither were aged, and bone marrow has given me problems in the past when i eat it without aging... this has set me back considerably!! :( .... frustrating!!!!
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...I have very dry skin at my heels...
Do you have white circles of dead skin that get larger and the skin peels off, or just dry, cracking skin?
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just dry, cracking skin...
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Most of my dry skin went away when I upped my intake of animal saturated fats, but I still get some on my forehead where the dry winter wind hits it, especially if I eat occasional berries or other carbs. So I rub saturated fats into the skin on my forehead (cocoa butter, tallow, coconut oil, etc.)--especially before going outside. Maybe eating lots of saturated and monounsaturated fats and putting some on your heels would help you too, I don't know.
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i'll give that a try, especially if i can't eat my bone marrow :(
i used to have a jar of tallow to keep for dry skin/hair, but it's so hard at room temp that it was difficult to use... i can get the fat for no cost though, so maybe i will try again
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not sure how long i'll be brave enough to keep this posted, but this is me at this very moment as i sit and type here... it's not a before or after, it's 6 months in and just finally on my way. at my worst, i was more than 25lbs less than my current weight... i don't have any photos from this horrible time. i'm not really looking to make any outward changes... maybe to get my strength back... just want my digestive system to be well again
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad305/amassie19/Photo1.jpg)
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;D ;D ;D ;D :o :o :o :o
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how about some pics with full-body armor on
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not sure how long i'll be brave enough to keep this posted, but this is me at this very moment as i sit and type here... it's not a before or after, it's 6 months in and just finally on my way. at my worst, i was more than 25lbs less than my current weight... i don't have any photos from this horrible time. i'm not really looking to make any outward changes... maybe to get my strength back... just want my digestive system to be well again
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad305/amassie19/Photo1.jpg)
You look well and very attractive
This is the first time I read your journal. Funny when you mentioned eating the apple.
I just ate some honey and mango on friday as an experiment and I've been constipated for 4 days now. Before that I would go every morning when I woke up like clockwork. Strange.. very strange.
Also I think that most of us don't realize how much we've transformed.. I was thinking the other day about how slowly I was progressing and then I started reflecting on how I had felt a mere year ago and realized that I've regained almost all of my health. Anywho, don't take things to literally, no one has perfect. You'll be surprised at how many health problems non-health concious people have, they just don't realize it or don't make a big deal out of it. Nothing in life is ever perfect.
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Has anyone here with GI issues do.Helminthic therapy?
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Has anyone here with GI issues do.Helminthic therapy?
Helminthic therapy is preposterous.
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i'll give that a try, especially if i can't eat my bone marrow :(
i used to have a jar of tallow to keep for dry skin/hair, but it's so hard at room temp that it was difficult to use... i can get the fat for no cost though, so maybe i will try again
Yeah, you have to rub or heat hard saturated fat to get it to melt enough to apply. Another possibility is mixing some softer fat into it like coconut oil or olive oil. That's one way the Yupik people make agootuk--mix liquid seal oil into the hard caribou tallow and add berries.
You look lovely. Do you take Green Pasture's cod liver oil and additional D3? The old fashioned CLO is nasty tasting stuff, but I'm thinking it might help you if you're not already taking it. And as my mother always used to say, remember to make time to get outside in the sunshine and play.
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Check out my links on Helminthic therapy before you call it preposterous.
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not sure how long i'll be brave enough to keep this posted, but this is me at this very moment as i sit and type here... it's not a before or after, it's 6 months in and just finally on my way. at my worst, i was more than 25lbs less than my current weight... i don't have any photos from this horrible time. i'm not really looking to make any outward changes... maybe to get my strength back... just want my digestive system to be well again
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad305/amassie19/Photo1.jpg)
Hey! I missed out! that must of been quick!
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Agree with my visual fella's on the lady's charm. :P
Ioanna are you eating all organic grass fed? And how much are you eating these days? (by weight)
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I thought the Wonder Woman picture was a bit quirky, but now looking at this picture I'd have to say it's not very far off from that cartoon. If you were to pic a sketched cartoon to represent yourself.
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all this time i was afraid of your judgements, lol, but you've all been very kind... thank you!
Most of my dry skin went away when I upped my intake of animal saturated fats,
when i up my fat (has been added suet or bone marrow), my health starts to fall apart, i get scared, and go back to the %fat of the ground meat i've been eating. however, seems if i age the fat along with the meat i can do ok, so i'll try this again as soon as i fully recover from my last bone marrow issue.
Has anyone here with GI issues do.Helminthic therapy?
I have no idea what this is, I'll have to look this up and get back to you. I've found my though, I'm not interested in complicating my life any more than I need.
how about some pics with full-body armor on
hmmmm, maybe i'll find some courage one of these days.
Do you take Green Pasture's cod liver oil and additional D3? The old fashioned CLO is nasty tasting stuff, but I'm thinking it might help you if you're not already taking it. And as my mother always used to say, remember to make time to get outside in the sunshine and play.
i took some a couple of times, but i stopped and my digestion remained fine so i haven't taken anymore. (taste not very appealing, lol) i don't know if it's doing anything positive for me or not? i'd rather eat fish, but that hasn't worked for me... maybe i need to age everything :S. i do know that this winter has been brutal, and since i hate the cold i am sure that i did not get enough sunshine hiding indoors for the past few months.
Ioanna are you eating all organic grass fed? And how much are you eating these days? (by weight)
gosh, i'm not really sure... maybe 1-1.5-ish pounds... i don't allow myself to measure or i'll get really obsessive about everything, but i know i eat mostly consistent amount no matter the number of meals or time of day, etc. sometimes i'm unusually hungry and i can tell i'm eating more than i normally do, and sometimes the opposite that i'm not so hungry. i'll give you a better answer in time when i'm further along.
I thought the Wonder Woman picture was a bit quirky, but now looking at this picture I'd have to say it's not very far off from that cartoon. If you were to pic a sketched cartoon to represent yourself.
I have a military friend who looks like 'the rock'... it's in the family, they're all huge and muscular... anyway, whenever i'm out with him people stop us and say we look like we stepped out of a comic... of course, he gets this comment when alone too... i just look like a girl, lol.
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Ioanna are you eating all organic grass fed?
mostly, and try to.. sometimes grain finished bison though
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Ionna, there a was a time when all I wanted was bone marrow with meat. Then I couldn't eat it anymore. I would try to eat it inbetween meals to increase my fat intake, and or keep the marrow from slowing down the digestion of meat. It was hard to eat it alone, even if hungry. That was a sign to me my body didn't really want or need it. I went back to back fat. Now I do fine with it and crave it again. Not sure what this says, but maybe we all need to mix things up more. Lately, don't tell Tyler, I've been eating a pint of raw cream a day. Yum, it's amazing. I think even addicting. But at this point, I don't care. I also started to enjoy avocado with my meat again. Paleo people would have eaten eye balls, brains, suet, back fat, bugs, and the list goes on. And thanks for posting your picture. Captivating. I like having an idea as to who it is I'm writing to. Have been meaning to do the same for some time now. I agree with Phil, that Vit D thing I think is a big one. It regulates so many things in our body.
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thanks van! i do want the bone marrow though and the taste is appealing. and when i've had a high fat% ground beef from the farmer here, i love that too. i don't know why my intestines can't love it too, lol.
Now I do fine with it and crave it again.
are both 'it' referring to bone marrow?
i agree on the vit d, but it's just been too cold :( it's warming up though, so i'll be outside as i usually am soon. how do i know if a CLO is working or not? i can't tell anything good or bad, so i only used it a few times.
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The link worked the second time. Definitely good looking!!! athletic as well!
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thanks van! i do want the bone marrow though and the taste is appealing. and when i've had a high fat% ground beef from the farmer here, i love that too. i don't know why my intestines can't love it too, lol.
The farm beef I get from a small town abattoir/butcher leaks blood when thawed, while the stuff from the local stores does not leak any.
I assume that this means that the store gb is kosher, and that might be why I could eat it for so many years without apparent problems, and why I have to dry the farm beef. This is assuming that Dr. Harris' description of an allergen in beef blood is true, and that some drying neutralizes the allergen.
Maybe it's the blood?
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'it' being marrow. Can you eat it plain with out meat and enjoy it, the same quantity that you would eat along with meat. It does keep a long long time inside the bone in the fridge. I used to go through the laborious task of emptying 20 pounds of marrow bones into 'tupperware' containers and refridgerate. Now, I just spread the bones out on a wire rack in the fridge and the dry cool air dries the left over meat on the surface of the bone keeping it from going bad or smelling bad. I ended up throwing out two bottles of green pastures clo because I didn't trust, intuition or not, the burning in my throat after taking it. Rancid oils have the same burn. The owner told me it's simply the fermentation?? I presently take Mercolas spray Vit D. Here in northern Ca. I am able to get sun about every third day on the average.
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... how do i know if a CLO is working or not? i can't tell anything good or bad, so i only used it a few times.
I believe it takes longer to work than a few times. I haven't noticed much yet.
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thanks so much wodgina!
The farm beef I get from a small town abattoir/butcher leaks blood when thawed, while the stuff from the local stores does not leak any.
I assume that this means that the store gb is kosher, and that might be why I could eat it for so many years without apparent problems, and why I have to dry the farm beef. This is assuming that Dr. Harris' description of an allergen in beef blood is true, and that some drying neutralizes the allergen.
Maybe it's the blood?
no idea... all the sources i've ever had, there is blood/juice present in the meat... i take care to add this to whatever i'm eating cuz i am usually anemic... some sources work for me, some don't.. now that i'm aging the meat, all the sources work for me.
Can you eat it plain with out meat and enjoy it, the same quantity that you would eat along with meat. It does keep a long long time inside the bone in the fridge. I used to go through the laborious task of emptying 20 pounds of marrow bones into 'tupperware' containers and refridgerate. Now, I just spread the bones out on a wire rack in the fridge and the dry cool air dries the left over meat on the surface of the bone keeping it from going bad or smelling bad. I ended up throwing out two bottles of green pastures clo because I didn't trust, intuition or not, the burning in my throat after taking it. Rancid oils have the same burn. The owner told me it's simply the fermentation?? I presently take Mercolas spray Vit D. Here in northern Ca. I am able to get sun about every third day on the average.
yes! sometimes it's all i want. after my recent set back i'm not so brave to eat marrow anymore though. i do have some sitting in my fridge... i can probably eat it now, but i'm afraid :( i've put the bones on a rack though as you suggested... i thought they would smell, but you're right that they don't.
still not sure about the CLO... i wish the sun would come out though!
my dog's favorite spot in the house is right in front of the window where the sun is coming in... she moves to the appropriate room depending on the time of day... even in summer, she loves to take in teh sun!
I believe it takes longer to work than a few times. I haven't noticed much yet.
what and how long you've been taking?
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...what and how long you've been taking?
I'm taking 1/2 tsp Green Pasture's CLO, bought via Dr. Ron's, plus two of Carlson's vitamin D3 gels, for a total of about 5000 IUs of D3 per day. I've been taking it for about several days. Before that I was taking NOW double-strength CLO plus the Carlson's D3 for several weeks.
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The owner told me it's simply the fermentation??
lactic acid fermentation, its the lactic acid that causes your throat to tingle/burn
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lactic acid fermentation, its the lactic acid that causes your throat to tingle/burn
I have consumed lots of things fermented with lactic acid, including sauerkraut and kefir. None of them caused the harsh sensation that caused me to stop taking the CLO.
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this hurts...
so about a year ago i applied for a few jobs that i liked... the one i wanted the most happened to also be near family/friends which made me want it even more... but the budget fell thru for that position, so i took the job 1,000 mi that i have now... which i do love!!... just this morning i got a phone message offering me an interview for the job i originally wanted most, and i'm certain i would get because 1. i worked there before i went to grad school and 2. they offered me an interview for a position i didn't even know existed.
i've been here only 7 months, i haven't even finished training for my current job yet (will take another month) let alone loyalty time for the training... and i am not even fully unpacked yet, lol. the other position i like better, significantly higher salary, and is near friends/family.
Timing was off :(
At present, I am happy, i suppose i should focus on that?
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One thing you could consider if you take the new job is repaying you current employer 20%(or something) of what you made.
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Ionna, I'm not an expert in these matters, but I think you could explain to the new employer that you want to treat your current employer well and not leave them in the lurch and either ask your new employer for suggestions or make your own (such as more than the usual notice time to your current employer or waiting until they find a replacement before you leave, or even helping with the training of your replacement, if the new employer does not need you quickly). If it will make you feel less guilty, you could also explain to your old employer the reason you're leaving so soon, but make sure you have written guarantee of the new job before you give your notice and/or reason. I think your new employer will appreciate that you want to treat employers well. It should make them feel even better about you. And feel good about your luck, rather than guilty. You're a good person who deserves good luck.
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One thing you could consider if you take the new job is repaying you current employer 20%(or something) of what you made.
I wouldn't do that, that says that I devalue my own work... I have great pride in my work, have produced great work, and earned my paycheck. Besides, I'm not vested yet so they will get back 80% of any vested amounts in my name.
If it will make you feel less guilty, ...
Do men ever feel guilty?... or is that only woman's way of thinking? yes, I do feel guilty if I leave so soon without some loyalty 'payback'. Men don't think this way?.. they just move upward and onward to their best/be the best provider for family needs?
And feel good about your luck, rather than guilty. You're a good person who deserves good luck.
Thank you for that!!
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Do men ever feel guilty?... or is that only woman's way of thinking? yes, I do feel guilty if I leave so soon without some loyalty 'payback'. Men don't think this way?.. they just move upward and onward to their best/be the best provider for family needs?
Total feminist claptrap! Yes, men can feel guilty in certain situations, and, similiarly, some women I've known personally over the years, have had definite psychopathic personalities and were utterly incapable of feeling guilt or any similiar emotion.
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Total feminist claptrap!
hahaha, ok... just wanted to be sure i wasn't being 'girly' about the whole thing... i didnt mean as a level of consciousness though, i meant in the pursuit of goals... a little different?
anyway, i'm pretty sure that i will stay... i am happy with what i am doing at present, so maybe in a year or two i will have an 'open door' again...
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I wouldn't do that, that says that I devalue my own work... I have great pride in my work, have produced great work, and earned my paycheck. Besides, I'm not vested yet so they will get back 80% of any vested amounts in my name.
I assumed that since you weren't finished training that you have actually cost the company money since training requires investing lots of resources before the employee can start being a profitable asset. Good luck though it seems regardless you are in a good position.
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I assumed that since you weren't finished training that you have actually cost the company money since training requires investing lots of resources before the employee can start being a profitable asset. Good luck though it seems regardless you are in a good position.
oh... no.. i am not costing them... i am a chemist so the 'training period' means that my supervisor has to sign off on my reports/interpretations until the training period (a formality) is over and I can sign off my own stuff. I'm doing plenty of work for them!, not a cost except the time for an additional person (my supervisor) to review my work.
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how about some pics with full-body armor on
NO, fem-armour!..: http://godlesspaladin.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/armor.jpg (http://godlesspaladin.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/armor.jpg) =)
http://www.yeuxdtv.net/images/humanWarriorsFem3.gif (http://www.yeuxdtv.net/images/humanWarriorsFem3.gif)
The farm beef I get from a small town abattoir/butcher leaks blood when thawed, while the stuff from the local stores does not leak any.
I assume that this means that the store gb is kosher, and that might be why I could eat it for so many years without apparent problems, and why I have to dry the farm beef. This is assuming that Dr. Harris' description of an allergen in beef blood is true, and that some drying neutralizes the allergen.
Maybe it's the blood?
Interesting... A lot of the the religious practises do have practical reasons.
"The major beef allergen is called bovine serum albumin (BSA), a naturally occurring protein found in the blood of cattle. But BSA can be rendered harmless by the application of heat, so most people with a beef allergy react only to undercooked beef and have no problems eating a well-done steak, for instance. Similar albumin proteins found in pork, lamb, and chicken also seem to cause allergic reactions, but are different enough that a person with a chicken allergy may tolerate beef, and vice versa. There may be cases of cross-allergy, but they’re not well studied, says Taylor.
Low levels of these albumin proteins are also found in milk and egg yolks, so people with meat allergies are encouraged to consume only pasteurized dairy products and to make sure their eggs are thoroughly cooked."
Just from a quick search.
Can some people add comment to the discussions of allergens in beef blood?
I did notice though, that these allergens seem to be in all the main 'food-animals'. Is it possibly something to do with the grain they eat? Comments!
Thanks..
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....Do men ever feel guilty?... or is that only woman's way of thinking? yes, I do feel guilty if I leave so soon without some loyalty 'payback'. Men don't think this way?.. they just move upward and onward to their best/be the best provider for family needs?
Men can feel guilty too, sure, but I wouldn't feel guilty in your situation. I would just treat both my current and future employer well. It's not only ethical, it's in your interests too.
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People get trained up and leave all the time, especially the ones who are going places!
From a completely unemotional/male ;) point of few I think your crazy turning down this interview. I mean it's more money, is close to your friends and in a workplace where you have worked previously and liked.
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I did notice though, that these allergens seem to be in all the main 'food-animals'. Is it possibly something to do with the grain they eat? Comments!
I've been to the farm, seen the animals enough that I'm reasonably sure that the animals were never fed cereal grain, but still got a stop unless it's dried.
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I'm very happy here, but have really been considering moving abroad. I love and am grateful for the opportunity here, but miss the cultural differences (where my family is from). Lately, I cannot get the idea out of my head... which I take to be a sign of excellent health as I would otherwise be too scared to even consider :) My career is easy to transfer though, so I will continue to consider. IDK... just a ramble.
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Hi Ioanna I really enjoyed reading through your journal here just now. I admire you for being brave enough to bare your soul. The Ibs sounds like its been truly horrific and I am glad the new diet is helping. To make such progress in your education and work under such adverse health condition shows a lot of determination. Well done! ;D
I especially enjoyed the video of the man in his 90s, and his exposition on mono diet. I haven't found much on the net about it so will see where his links lead. Thanks. Sydney
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Also I'm wondering what your diet was like that you got the ibs? You probably have posted on this before but being a newbie I don't know how to find. Sydney
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I chose a lower paying job over taking an interview for a higher paying one and am regretting it now. The reason I chose it was because I had been doing it for a little while, met my manager, and really liked her. Right off the bat they got me some lab coats and safety shoes and I just didn't feel comfortable with the idea of leaving them that soon, especially since they were so short handed.
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Hi Ioanna I really enjoyed reading through your journal here just now. I admire you for being brave enough to bare your soul. The Ibs sounds like its been truly horrific and I am glad the new diet is helping. To make such progress in your education and work under such adverse health condition shows a lot of determination. Well done! ;D
I especially enjoyed the video of the man in his 90s, and his exposition on mono diet. I haven't found much on the net about it so will see where his links lead. Thanks. Sydney
wow, thanks so much! i think i kinda cheated though since i didn't bare anything of my issues until i had something of improvement to report. if you find anything in your net search, please report to us!
Also I'm wondering what your diet was like that you got the ibs? You probably have posted on this before but being a newbie I don't know how to find. Sydney
i don't think i've ever posted..
i had been living in italy, and when i came back was for some reason repulsed by meat and started a vegetarian diet... eating all kinds of food (soy, legumes, rice) i'd never eaten before. the soy/tofu stuff i stopped very quickly as i would vomit within 5-10 minutes of eating any of that stuff. i was eating a lot of grains and a lot of legumes that i learned to prepare for myself in an indian cuisine style. i know people think italians eat a lot of pasta, but we really don't. pasta is a "first", like a side (?) or a part of the meal. meat/seafood is the "second", or main part. so this vegetarian transition was kinda like 'my big fat greek wedding' crazy! but at the time i liked it. it was the middle of summer.. i was heavily into triathlons/training... about one year after eating vegetarian... hit hard with hardly a warning... i was throwing up everything (quite painfully), my throat ulcerated (hence the really bad anemia), my intestines were inflamed (feels tender/bloated, i couldn't even rest on my stomach)... and it all continues and/or worsens from there intermittently for years...
raw kyle - i ended up staying, and hope i don't regret it. i explained my situation though and they said i could submit my resume in a year or so.... so maybe the timing will be better then. or maybe i'll move somewhere else. i was thinking though, if i never moved so far away from everything/one that i know i don't think i'd be where i am health-wise today. i'd probably still be trying to make pemmican work because it's socially acceptable. (not a stab at william!) like how would i have time to experiment with all this aged meat hanging around the kitchen with a roommate and friends/family walking in and out all the time? i can only blame my dog for so much of the unconventional things i do :D and when i get brave enough for high meat (and i will! :D) i'll be glad to be in my own space.
the down side... i'm in a new city and it's really hard to make friends when i don't socialize with food.
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another set back i forgot to report that happened about a month ago...
i was baking brownies for a friend's (co-worker) birthday. i love to bake!!.. it's a part of my fave childhood memories with all my greek and italian aunts. it's also a creative outlet. i used to enjoy cooking too, as well as the presentation of all my dishes or baked goods. anyway, i baked brownies... apparently i should have been wearing a particulate mask?!? symptoms were almost as if i actually ate a bit of one... set back for a week :(
is this crazy?? i can be that sensitive?
my baking days are over! i'm going to learn to sew now, lol :)
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That would seem to be the case. Looks pretty obvious.
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Hello Joanna!
This brownie thing is really crazy! :o
(maybe baking is not a good idea, then.. but I see you, me too LOVED to bake before.. and to cook too, BTW. -\ )
Have you ever tried to make pemmican with dried (raw) jerky and marrow? I do that now, and it tastes really good! I just mix the pulverized jerky with the marrow, just left the marrow out some hours before, then it is soft and easy to mix! This is a completely raw pemmican. ;)
Inger
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Have you ever tried to make pemmican with dried (raw) jerky and marrow? I do that now, and it tastes really good! I just mix the pulverized jerky with the marrow, just left the marrow out some hours before, then it is soft and easy to mix! This is a completely raw pemmican. ;)
Inger
When I made pemmican I tried to make it truly raw. The fat was either marrow or suet that I just warmed for an hour in the dehydrator (80F), then food processed to mush. The jerky I made similarly.. at 85F for three days (I think), so technically it was all raw. DISASTER. By accident I later realized that it was not the fat, but the dehydrated lean giving me the problems. I would snack on this same kind of fat with no problem, but the lean was quite troublesome. Maybe it's too concentrated at this time for me? I read "even a baby can digest" it (pemmican), so I thought I would be fine... oh well. I did love the taste!! and convenience and I could eat it in public.
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While most seem to find pemmican to be very harmful because of the rendered fat component, it also seems that some others also find even dried raw meats to be a problem, while still others have found problems with even ground, raw meats. It seems that any kind of processing is a rather bad idea, and even more so the worse off the state of your digestive system is in.
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Drying meat (or fruit or vegetables) decreases by definition the water content of the food and consequently concentrates the flavors and so makes it more palatable. Exactly in the same way as seasoning augments palatability.
The consequence is a clear cut tendency to overeat dried or seasoned food which certainly explains at least part of the adverse effects some people experience with dried or seasoned food.
Similarly ground beef is much easier to chew and in general food texture modification is well known to change palatability and thus there may also exist a tendency to overeat ground beef for a fraction of the humans.
Do these considerations simply mean that any kind of food processing implies adverse effects? I don't think so, things are as usual not that simple. Fermentation for instance is also clearly a kind of food processing as with fermented fish or meat (high meat) or vegetables such as cabbage (sauerkraut) and seems in contrast to have even unambiguous positive effects.
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Well, I've tried fermenting vegetables and it didn't help me in any way. Fermenting raw meats worked rather better re digestion. And fermenting cannot really be described as an artificial process(i mean cutting raw meat with knives or rendering it is certainly an artificial process, but leaving raw meats to ferment on their own and be filled with extra bacteria is not comparable and isn't really a process).
As for constant complains re the harm done by pemmican etc., plenty of such reports involve nasty reactions to even small amounts of pemmican so it cannot be simply a case of overeating, but more likely a nasty reaction to toxins in pemmican and/or because the body's digestive system is so damaged that it cannot even handle slightly-processed foods. Unless one is suggesting that pemmican can only be healthy if eaten in very small doses at a time.
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Leaving meat (or figs or grapes in nature) to dry in sun and wind is as "natural" as leaving meat to ferment and has nevertheless clearly adverse effects.
In fact fermentation of meat or fish or cabbage implies some careful control of the process (uses a fridge for instance or a barrel for fish or cabbage etc) which implies conceptual intelligence or an "artifice".
Let me emphasize again things are not that simple and distinguishing seriously what's "artificial" and what's "natural" is actually scientifically impossible and anyway simply not pertinent here.
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Well, some RVAFers either exclusively or wholly ferment their high-meats outside the fridge(I've done that at times, myself). Some more advanced RVAFers have even reported eating high-meat with maggots in it!
And also, many wild animals(not intelligent as such in a sentient sense) leave meats out to age for various reasons. Plus, drying in a dehydrator is hardly the same as drying in the sun over a longer period.
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While most seem to find pemmican to be very harmful because of the rendered fat component, it also seems that some others also find even dried raw meats to be a problem, while still others have found problems with even ground, raw meats. It seems that any kind of processing is a rather bad idea, and even more so the worse off the state of your digestive system is in.
omg!!!.. rendered fat would have me not leaving bed for at least a full day it's so bad for me!! the last time i ate cooked fat my mom asked why i had food poisoning... i was that sick!!... and that comment made me realize, 'omg, i have food poisoning!'...that's why when I tried pemmican i tried to keep everything raw. didn't work, but if i made it the traditional way... ooohhhhhh, i don't even want to think about the consequence :(
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i am great with ground beef or bison though, even better when aged.
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i am great with ground beef or bison though, even better when aged.
I had slight issues with raw ground beef at first when I first went for raw animal foods. I was doing the Primal Diet at the time(well minus raw dairy and raw veggie-juice) and I just found that ground beef took longer for me to digest than raw, whole meats. Maybe it had something to do with the ground beef being more oxidised?
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*Troll's post deleted due to trolling about pemmican*
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....Fermentation for instance is also clearly a kind of food processing as with fermented fish or meat (high meat) or vegetables such as cabbage (sauerkraut) and seems in contrast to have even unambiguous positive effects.
There is not unanimity about "unambiguous positive effects":
http://www.zhion.com/kimchi_cancer.html
http://www.answers.com/topic/kimchi
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7813983
Food safety and toxicity by John De Vries (http://books.google.com/books?id=ag4z1Pp9cLAC&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=sausage+ethyl+carbamates&source=bl&ots=dKPGgQuyBB&sig=xypyGGqg0zVyi9pVkcgoPewFisA&hl=en&ei=diXrS83zAsOblgexnIicBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=blue%20cheese%20ethyl%20carbamates&f=false)--according to this book, fish paste (fermented soy and fish) and stinky cheeses (fermented cheeses) are particularly high in toxic amines, much more so than sausages (fermented meats). Fermenting soy seems to produce the most toxins of any fermented food. I've always been skeptical of natto and this makes me even warier of it.
However, I'm also skeptical that the cancer correlations in the fermented food studies are actually causative to the extent that the study designers think. My guess is that the probiotic effects of these foods offset the toxicity somewhat. Overall it does seem like every form of food preservation produces some toxins. Whether the flora in a healthy person are able to handle them all or not and what actual effects they have, I don't know. It's interesting that moist high meats produce some of the least toxins of all the food preservation methods--the opposite of what most moderners would think.
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There is not unanimity about "unambiguous positive effects":
http://www.zhion.com/kimchi_cancer.html
http://www.answers.com/topic/kimchi
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7813983
Food safety and toxicity by John De Vries (http://books.google.com/books?id=ag4z1Pp9cLAC&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=sausage+ethyl+carbamates&source=bl&ots=dKPGgQuyBB&sig=xypyGGqg0zVyi9pVkcgoPewFisA&hl=en&ei=diXrS83zAsOblgexnIicBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=blue%20cheese%20ethyl%20carbamates&f=false)--according to this book, fish paste (fermented soy and fish) and stinky cheeses (fermented cheeses) are particularly high in toxic amines, much more so than sausages (fermented meats). Fermenting soy seems to produce the most toxins of any fermented food. I've always been skeptical of natto and this makes me even warier of it.
However, I'm also skeptical that the cancer correlations in the fermented food studies are actually causative to the extent that the study designers think. My guess is that the probiotic effects of these foods offset the toxicity somewhat. Overall it does seem like every form of food preservation produces some toxins. Whether the flora in a healthy person are able to handle them all or not and what actual effects they have, I don't know. It's interesting that moist high meats produce some of the least toxins of all the food preservation methods--the opposite of what most moderners would think.
It is not a good approach to reason in terms of toxicity as an absolute quality of a given food component (true for glucose, proteins, fats and even "toxic" amines, AGEs or right handed ( or otherwise damaged) amino acids etc). Everything is a matter of dose and actually the only thing that matters is whether or not a given food is healthy as a whole thing or better if that whole food in the context of a given diet is healthy. The only way to know for sure is either to experiment over many generations :) or merely look at all the experiments that Nature has already done on us with traditional diets and foods that obviously maintained people in much better health than that of the 21 th century american or european civilized people. Once there will be clear evidence that our modern analytic and reductionist approach will be able to maintain us in better health than these cultures were and tell us more safely what we should eat or not to stay in good heath over many generations I'll change my mind.
In the sense you refer to toxicity there is toxicity in everything. Even the best foods are a trade off. Do you know that among usual meats or foods raw meat from ruminants such as beef for instance or also many raw sea foods contain (because of the major role of symbiotic bacteria in these animals digestion) naturally the highest amount of D-amino acids, the same kind that is formed from normal L- amino acids upon cooking by racemisation and that cannot be used to build proteins or enzymes in humans. Obviously we all agree in this forum that this does not make beef meat "toxic".
Note also that I was referring to some traditional fermented foods and not their various modern more or less systematically denaturated forms. Traditional sauerkraut will certain poison nobody with an excess of salt or other additives as modern versions (of actually almost all modern foods) might do.
In other words I think we should show much more humility before we prematurely dismiss by means of highly reductionnist reasonings some fermented foods that permitted many cultures to stay in much better heath than we are over many generations. Even if this is at odds with our present (obviously temporary) point of view.
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I think we should show much more humility before we prematurely dismiss by means of highly reductionnist reasonings some fermented foods that permitted many cultures to stay in much better heath than we are over many generations.
Coincidentally, I was eating sauerkraut as I started to read your post, so obviously I don't hold any of the extreme views you discussed in your post and I hope you're not implying that I intended any of them with my post. I only offered additional information to show that there is not unanimity that "fermented fish or meat (high meat) or vegetables such as cabbage (sauerkraut)" have only "unambiguous positive effects". Any interpretation assumed beyond that was not intended. I favor humility and a holistic, rather than reductionist, approach to science and knowledge and I have tried to make that clear in the past. You're preaching to the choir on that if you're directing any of it to me. Instead of unambigious or absolute positives I think more in terms of net overall positives.
So, for example, even though I developed some throat mucus after my first ingestion of raw organic sauerkraut (which could have been coincidental) produced by a local family farm inspired by more "traditional" methods of preparing foods, I continue to try it on the chance that it may benefit my gut flora and bowels--a benefit that other people have reported (though some, like Tyler, have reported no benefits). If I continue to derive no benefit from it then I likely will eventually cease the experiment, but I'm not going to eat it forever just because you claim it has "unambiguous positive effects." Call me skeptical, if you wish (and please do :) ), but I require more evidence than you're say-so.
Note also that I was referring to some traditional fermented foods....
How traditional is sauerkraut? Is it traditional in the sense of a staple food of Stone Agers or "traditional" in the sense that some people use the term of predating the industrial era?
To tie this in with the thread, we cannot assume that all people will react the same to various forms of food preparation. Ionna reports being sensitive to jerky dehydrated at 85F by a dehydrator, whereas I don't notice any negative reaction to it other than that it doesn't digest quite as well for me as air-dried or fresh meat. Still other people have reported actually digesting dehydrator-dried meat better than fresh meat. Presumably we can't rule out that different people might also react differently to foods preserved with fermentation.
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Well, no one has ever reported having problems with high-meat - well, except in a positive way. 1 woman complained that if she had any high-meat in the evenings, she would feel so wired and full of energy and wide awake that she couldn't sleep that night. The simple solution was to eat the high-meat in the earlier part of the day. That was it.
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Here, here! And I haven't had any problems from my high meat either, and I highly doubt that they would have a net bad effect on most people's health, though I also haven't noticed any of the benefits that others report. It's strange that I get more of a "high" from my fresh and aged raw meat and fat than I do my high meat, but that could be because of quantities consumed. And, like I said, I'm also skeptical about the cancer correlations re: most of those fermented foods. Correlation does not equal causation. Still, to claim that there is unanimity on these foods being unambiguously positive would be to ignore the existence of those who disagree. Plus, I think most of us can agree that fermented soy foods are probably not healthy. The highest ethyl carbamate levels were found in fermented soy products and heated wines, neither of which is raw Paleo. All fermented foods are likely not created equal. Just because fermented soy products are likely unhealthy does not necessarily mean that fermented meats are. So I would rephrase it thusly: "some fermented foods appear in contrast to have even net overall positive effects."
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Paleophil, my point was not to invite you or anybody else to try or regularly eat a specific fermented food whatever it is. Also I never said that all fermented foods have positive effects or are healthy.
It was just to recall ( probably in an inappropriate or unfortunate phrasing, I beg your pardon ) once more that from a pure scientific point of view we should not reject a food just because some of us, with digestion and health impaired by years on an inappropriate SAD, had a temporary bad experience with it. In this case we all (me too) tend to find usually highly questionable rationalizations of our experience. A basic flaw of our human mind.
Sauerkraut is of course a neolithic food and by "traditional" I meant indeed just the way it was prepared and the cabbage grown predating the industrial era.
Finally by unambigous positive effects I had in mind a comparison to the relevant raw (just as it is) food namely raw fresh cabbage in the case of sauerkraut.
I finally believe that fermentation is probably a unique most remarkable example of processing invented during the neolithic with overall positive ( as opposed to usually negative) effects when compared to the relevant unprocessed paleolithic food.
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Paleophil, my point was not to invite you or anybody else to try or regularly eat a specific fermented food whatever it is. Also I never said that all fermented foods have positive effects or are healthy.
Yes, I know, and I added "some" for clarification, in case some might misinterpret.
...we should not reject a food just because some of us, with digestion and health impaired by years on an inappropriate SAD, had a temporary bad experience with it.
I agree, and I would add that we also shouldn't assume that everyone else will do well on a food just because we do, which is another common error in dietary forums.
Finally by unambigous positive effects I had in mind a comparison to the relevant raw (just as it is) food namely raw fresh cabbage in the case of sauerkraut.
For whatever reason I so far my stomach seems to handle raw fresh cabbage slightly better than sauerkraut. I have no idea why. It's too early to tell if the difference is significant.
I finally believe that fermentation is probably a unique most remarkable example of processing invented during the neolithic with overall positive ( as opposed to usually negative) effects when compared to the relevant unprocessed paleolithic food.
I don't know a lot about fermented plant foods, but I did note that Sally Fallon recommended restricting kimchi and sauerkraut to "condiments." So she appears to be arguing that they are good in limited amounts, but not as staples. She didn't explain why in the article, unfortunately. I don't know whether she's right or wrong on this.
One thing I do know is I've never liked the taste of vinegar and will only eat vinegared foods if they have lots of garlic or spices added to mask the taste of vinegar. So my "instincts" are telling me not to eat vinegar. :D It's interesting that the taste of high meat and traditional sauerkraut don't bother me as much, though I can't say I care for those tastes either. So for the time being I'm ignoring my "instincts" re: high meat and sauerkraut because of the positive reports that other people make and because humans have probably been eating rotted meats from day one.
Wouldn't fermented (high) meat and fish go back much farther than the Neolithic? After all, even dogs bury some of their meat and bones and I've seen a video of two lions protecting a rotted zebra carcass like it was "pure gold".
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Do you mean "invented" as in creating controlled conditions for native bacteria on a food to thrive and change the state of the food? Fermentation is of course fundamental to nature, so it's as natural a process as one can achieve (like that in the controlled environment of ruminant stomachs and our own GI tract). So how is fermentation neolithic, other than that the natural principle was applied to preserve neolithic crops grown by humans? Fermentation is of course critical to all life on Earth...Humans merely accidentally observed and utilised the principle...
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i am great with ground beef or bison though, even better when aged.
That is quite intresting that aged meat goes better with you, pemmican (raw) don't. I wonder if it matters to eat a lot of dried meat. -\
I sometimes do. But I love aged meat too, like you eat it.
I wish I could find cheaper Bison meat, I pay 70 € / kg. here in Hamburg. l) I love Bison/Buffalo.
Inger
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Do you mean "invented" as in creating controlled conditions for native bacteria on a food to thrive and change the state of the food? Fermentation is of course fundamental to nature, so it's as natural a process as one can achieve (like that in the controlled environment of ruminant stomachs and our own GI tract). So how is fermentation neolithic, other than that the natural principle was applied to preserve neolithic crops grown by humans? Fermentation is of course critical to all life on Earth...Humans merely accidentally observed and utilised the principle...
I mean controlled fermentation is essentially a neolithic invention since it needs the invention of some artifices (pots, barrels, fridges etc). Technically, in principle, fermentation is the process brought about by favoring the growth of specific anaerobic strains of (among all native ones) bacteria in fish, meat, vegetables or fruits. In nature much more complex processes spontanenously happen and are more appropriately called rotting, drying, ageing etc involving also aerobic bacteria, fungi etc.
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I agree, and I would add that we also shouldn't assume that everyone else will do well on a food just because we do, which is another common error in dietary forums.
I agree completely, indeed another very common pitfall.
For whatever reason I so far my stomach seems to handle raw fresh cabbage slightly better than sauerkraut. I have no idea why. It's too early to tell if the difference is significant.
I don't know a lot about fermented plant foods, but I did note that Sally Fallon recommended restricting kimchi and sauerkraut to "condiments." So she appears to be arguing that they are good in limited amounts, but not as staples. She didn't explain why in the article, unfortunately. I don't know whether she's right or wrong on this.
I believe Sally Fallon is most likely right. When I occasionnaly eat such foods it's always spontaneously in limited quantities though they may taste great initially. I had apparently never adverse effects with them.
One thing I do know is I've never liked the taste of vinegar and will only eat vinegared foods if they have lots of garlic or spices added to mask the taste of vinegar. So my "instincts" are telling me not to eat vinegar. :D It's interesting that the taste of high meat and traditional sauerkraut don't bother me as much, though I can't say I care for those tastes either. So for the time being I'm ignoring my "instincts" re: high meat and sauerkraut because of the positive reports that other people make and because humans have probably been eating rotted meats from day one.
I don't like the taste of vinegar either and don't eat or use it. It's fermented wine where acetic acid results from fermentation as opposed to fermented vegetables where lactic acid results from fermentation.
Contrary to what Burger still claims with his "instincto" it is often wise and even sometimes a vital necessity to ignore our so called "instincts" or more appropriately from a scientific point our plain smell or taste perceptions upon choosing and/or eating our food. You can believe me this ideology of "instinctive" balance of our diet is just a myth that cannot work actually for many reasons.
Wouldn't fermented (high) meat and fish go back much farther than the Neolithic? After all, even dogs bury some of their meat and bones and I've seen a video of two lions protecting a rotted zebra carcass like it was "pure gold".
Yes I basically agree, though one might argue that rotting is not, from a technical point of view, just a fermentation, same with ageing or drying of meat. Ageing or fermenting as we do it now needs usually an artifice such as a fridge.
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Alcohol is supposed to have come about because humans in the Palaeolithic era went in for eating fermented fruit which has alcohol in it. Beer etc., though seems to be a purely Neolithic invention.
As for pots and pans, they were a Neolithic item basically but it would have been possible to store fermented foods in the hides of hunted animals.
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Contrary to what Burger still claims with his "instincto" it is often wise and even sometimes a vital necessity to ignore our so called "instincts" or more appropriately from a scientific point our plain smell or taste perceptions upon choosing and/or eating our food. You can believe me this ideology of "instinctive" balance of our diet is just a myth that cannot work actually for many reasons.
Sorry but I’m opposed to any form of beliefs, so I can’t just believe you : you should explain your statement and also explain how to know what to eat raw if we ignore our instincts.
We already had several discussion about it, especially on http://paleocru.webatu.com/forum/ (http://paleocru.webatu.com/forum/) but your arguments failed to be convincing or did beat a dead horse, stating obvious facts that GC Burger never disputed. Insulting him and your old friend myself as you did in the end was to no avail. -[
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Iguana,
http://paleocru.webatu.com/forum/index.php/topic,55.msg263.html#msg263
Je n'ai pas de temps à perdre avec les hypocrites et les faux-jetons. La tentative de dialogue avec Burger ou ses disciples(s'avérant être de sourds) s'arrête donc définitivement là, comme je l'ai dit plus haut.
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Well, wild animals appear to find the right (raw) foods for themselves when in the wild. Things like preferring raw organs etc., which seem more to do with instinct than sentient intelligence as such.
On the other hand, one does see wild animals deliberately targetting processed junk-foods from bins(due to addictive opioids in the stuff, I imagine). There have also been plenty of cases where wild animals have become addicted to alcohol etc. So, instincts can be easily subverted(I can think of my cravings for raw dairy pre-rawpalaeodiet).
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On the other hand, one does see wild animals deliberately targetting processed junk-foods from bins(due to addictive opioids in the stuff, I imagine). There have also been plenty of cases where wild animals have become addicted to alcohol etc. So, instincts can be easily subverted(I can think of my cravings for raw dairy pre-rawpalaeodiet).
Of course, and this is accounted for in the instincto theory which just says that our alimentary instinct can work properly only with stuff “not modified by any artifice of conceptual intelligence : an aliment as it is directly given by nature, for example as an animal can obtain it in its natural habitat.”
In the wild, alcohol is barely available in amounts sufficient to get addicted. Dairy is no longer available at all once the offspring is separated from mother. Processed food has never before been available to animals, so the fact that they deliberately target it confirms Burger’s findings.
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... favoring the growth of specific anaerobic strains of (among all native ones) bacteria in fish, meat, vegetables or fruits. ...
From what I've learned, it appears that the good bacteria in high, aged and raw meat are aerobic, not anaerobic, which is apparently one reason why Aajonus says to make sure to occasionally expose the meat to oxygen. This is important, because the anaerobic meat bacteria are apparently all pathogenic, since no one has been able to name a single anaerobic meat bacteria that isn't pathogenic.
As for the bacteria in lacto-fermented veggies, I learned that they are actually facultative anaerobes, not obligate anaerobes, which means they can tolerate oxygen. When I've asked, no one has been able to name a single obligate anaerobe that isn't pathogenic.
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This is an interesting topic. I hope Ioanna won’t mind if we get astray and comment briefly on it in her journal.
Before the appearance of cyanobacteria, the microorganisms capable to get the energy that runs them from sunlight by reduction of water and carbon dioxide and production of oxygen gas, all living organisms were a priori necessarily anaerobes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria
Until that event roughly 2 to 3 billions years ago,
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v455/n7216/full/nature07381.html
oxygen was essentially a deadly poison for the then existing forms of life (microorganisms only ) and essentially absent in earth’s reducing atmosphere.
These ancient microorganisms that were obligate anaerobies had to die out with the appearance of cyanobacteria because of progressive build up of the latter ‘s highly « toxic waste product » namely O2.
Today the living organisms not only must have adapted to the presence of oxygen but indeed many of them either heavily depend on it’s presence., in particular all the multicellular organisms , or use it preferentially whenever it’s possible because it has much much higher energetic efficiency.
The attempt to classifiy the now existing microorganisms as anaerobes or aerobes is thus probably vain. These organisms are actually capable to adapt to very different conditions and obtain their energy either from anaerobic glycolysis when oxygen is not available (in alcoolic or acetic fermentations for instance) or from aerobic complete oxidation of glucose and fatty acids when oxygen is available (at the surface of ageing or drying meat) . Even our own cells are capable to adapt in this way for instance muscle cells in intense brief effort (anaerobic glycolysis) versus prolonged and more moderate effort ( complete aerobic oxidation of fatty acids and glucose). It is also interesting to note that rapidly proliferating cells such as yeast or cancer cells must work in anaerobic mode because they cannot completely oxidize their glucose or fatty acids whose partial metabolic products are needed as cell construction material.
I’m inclined to believe that even the attempt to classify bacteria or microorganisms as good or bad is probably often vain too. Just think of a microorganism such as candida albicans.. All healthy humans (women) shelter it in their gut (vagina) and this is good so but this becomes bad in SAD poisoned people by change of the « terrain » and proliferation at the expense of other normally present microorganisms .
As to aged, dried or fermented meat I also agree, Paleo Phil, that this is probably best done in the presence of air. Much more tasty, no offensing smell. Yet does this mean that anaerobic fermentation of meat or fish results necessarily in an unhealthy food ? Apparently not. Just think about some traditional fermented fish foods in Sweden or eaten by natives of Canadian Pacific coasts or just fermented cod liver oil. Also in meat drying in air anaerobic bacteria are probably at work in bulk.
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So excited!, I just got cast in 'Much Ado About Nothing'... one of my fave plays. Not NYC or London, but still I'm happy and think it will be fun.
I think I finally figured out why initially there was only one source of meat that was working for me... this source ages their meat! Probably that's why only one full 24hr period of aging made so much of a noticeable difference too. Seems I just need to replenish gut flora and then maybe I can eat more foods! Still without veg/fruit for now as these foods seem to go thru me undigested and cause a lot of pain in the process. But maybe one day... so, after some experimenting, I am back to meat and fat, and have yet to incorporate organ meat. I am trying more varieties of animals though.
Next on my list, I really want to learn to surf! :)
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Great to hear things are going good for you Ioanna. :D
My increasingly main source for meat ages their stuff for 21 days before sale and it does make a big difference. It sits better and tastes much nicer. :)
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Thanks Dan!
It's like now I can actually understand why my digestion fell apart, seemed so inexplicable before. I think I finally get it, gosh that took (seemingly) forever!
Mom is coming to visit at the end of the month.... she's gonna be horrified at the site of my fridge!
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Give fruit some time.
When I first started eating fruit my stomach hurt and it didn't sit well.. Now a few months in I feel better then I've ever felt and look better then I've ever looked.
It was the same with rzc first time around, my heart felt very heavy and my pulse become very high.. Your body takes time to adjust to new foods.
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Give fruit some time.
When I first started eating fruit my stomach hurt and it didn't sit well.. Now a few months in I feel better then I've ever felt ....
That's what I was hoping for, and I think I've found a very small level of certain fruits that I can handle reasonably well, but fruit still gives me problems nearly a year after starting VLC. Are you able to eat large quantities of fruit without problems?
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Hi I
I caught up with an old friend recently who was a severe IBS sufferer. We lost contact but the last time we were hanging out he got so skinny due to the IBS that his lung collapsed and was hospitalised.
Now five years later I ended up at his 'World Cup Party' he's married now to a cool chick, owns 3 houses, eats KFC and is really happy. All IBS free. He tells me it's because he stopped caring about what people thought and also stop stressing about IBS.
Your cure from diet his from finding peace. Interesting.
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No... His cure is also from diet...
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Hi I
I caught up with an old friend recently who was a severe IBS sufferer. We lost contact but the last time we were hanging out he got so skinny due to the IBS that his lung collapsed and was hospitalised.
Now five years later I ended up at his 'World Cup Party' he's married now to a cool chick, owns 3 houses, eats KFC and is really happy. All IBS free. He tells me it's because he stopped caring about what people thought and also stop stressing about IBS.
Your cure from diet his from finding peace. Interesting.
Interesting about your friend! I'm so interested to know about how got to this peaceful mindset, and what kind of journey that was for him. And you are sure he is not taking any medication?? With medication I can eat anything and think I'm fine, but I it's important to me not to consume any kind of pharmaceuticals.
I have constantly (since onset) in the back of my mind wondering if there is some mental component. Addressing this has never been helpful though, only diet, and thinking this way only made me even more mad at myself. But now that I am well I am so sure it's not in my head. I wouldn't say I've found peace, but I am in the best and happiest place that I have ever been, yet still if I deviate there will be consequence within the day. Sometimes foods I think will be perfect don't work at all (e.g. truly raw pemmican, un-aged marrow), and sometimes the opposite that foods i think will be not good at all end up digesting just fine. It's definitely been an adventure learn to listen to myself, and now that I finally can I know I'm going to be just fine.
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I really need help on this one...
My mom is coming next week, and I'm not worried about this one. I'm going to cover my meat (aging) in cheesecloth so at least the fridge is not so barbaric looking. We always ate a different times and never really ate together anyway. So I can easily eat on my own as I always do, and she will have no idea that the meat in the fridge is not being cooked.
However, a dear friend of mine wants to visit... now what?!? She wants to stay for a few days, so how am I going to get through this one?? I don't want the way I eat to hinder my social life any more than I've already allowed that.
I know!, I'll have to try some fantastic presentation like Inger :)
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It seems perhaps that you have an unreasonable fear of what others might think of your way of eating and you are rewarding yourself with your invisibility cloaking. If not, then maybe you could explain why its reasonable. I mean what is the worst thing that can happen to you if your invisibility cloak fails?
Of course now that you've hid your diet so well from everyone you could really surprise the hell out of them which would be great especially if you got in on camera. Are you superstitious when it comes to other things? Did you learn these things from yiayia?
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I tend to agree. Your relationship with your mother may be complicated so I won't comment on that, but especially since you are feeling your best, and assuming your friend knows where you've come from and your desire for health, it should be the perfect opportunity to share with another human being if that is what you have been avoiding. I have some of the same issues so I understand completely, but this is still my opinion. I had roommates once and I tried avoided the issue and ate all my meals outside. eventually I had to account for my missing chicken and I'd have to admit that I ate it and that was that. In that case, maybe that tactic worked better, but perhaps not. When it comes to someone else's home its way trickier, and any fears confronted that are mostly in your control can only make things better for future situations. If you were feeling crummy it would be a different story, inner confidence and sense of well being goes along way in the face of arguments or concerns.
It definitely could not hurt to work in some kind of garnish or presentation with your meals, but hiding in a corner somewhere and eating and avoiding other questions about what or why you arn't eating and things will ultimately not yield the best interaction either. If it ever gets uncomfortable there is always: nodding and saying "I hear your concerns, thank you."
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Hi I
I caught up with an old friend recently who was a severe IBS sufferer. We lost contact but the last time we were hanging out he got so skinny due to the IBS that his lung collapsed and was hospitalised.
Now five years later I ended up at his 'World Cup Party' he's married now to a cool chick, owns 3 houses, eats KFC and is really happy. All IBS free. He tells me it's because he stopped caring about what people thought and also stop stressing about IBS.
Your cure from diet his from finding peace. Interesting.
That's what I was hoping for, and I think I've found a very small level of certain fruits that I can handle reasonably well, but fruit still gives me problems nearly a year after starting VLC. Are you able to eat large quantities of fruit without problems?
Yes. I can eat massive amounts of fruit with out any problems what so ever.
Interesting Wodgina. A guy I know who had pretty bad skin lesions and IBS told me the same thing. He said he just made sure he didn't over eat and stopped worrying about it. He said less stress was key.
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It seems perhaps that you have an unreasonable fear of what others might think of your way of eating and you are rewarding yourself with your invisibility cloaking.
Grinning PD, this is exactly what I do! :D
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... but especially since you are feeling your best, and assuming your friend knows where you've come from and your desire for health, it should be the perfect opportunity to share with another human being if that is what you have been avoiding. .... If you were feeling crummy it would be a different story, inner confidence and sense of well being goes along way in the face of arguments or concerns.
I'm still scared, but this gives me a lot of confidence - TY!
As for friends knowing where I've come from - no one knows (except mom mostly knows), I sorta hid that whole thing too.
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I.
Let us know how you go!
My cured friend went on medication after the lung collaspe but I'm almost certain he's off it now because he made a point to tell me the cure came from not caring what people thought of him anymore (not that he should of worried he is a good looking charasmatic character) he eat's what ever he wants now. I've had a few friends cure CFS/OCD etc by just changing their lives.
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he.... said.... that... he... relaxed... about.... what.... he.... was.... eating.....
he.... was.... 'cured'.... through.... diet.... as well.....
even... one... of... the... things... you... mentioned... that... he... allowed... himself... to.... eat... was.... kfc.... chicken....
he... probably... restricted... him... self... from... eating... fatty... and meaty... foods....
he... relaxed... and... stopped... worrying... about... what... he... was... eating... which... meant... he... was... eating... a... more... balanced... diet... and... less... of... the... foods... which... were... causing... him... problems...
... =O liek fo'ril!?!?!?!?...
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I ate yesterday a cut of beef that my farmer calls 'stew beef', he uses it for the ground beef so it's really cheap. It's kind of like a really fatty ribeye with a bone in it. I aged it for almost a month in the fridge, and omg it's so delicious!!! And the fat in it is soft (and maybe fluffy?)... almost like a marshmallow but a little but firmer... so good!!! And when I cut off what I wanted, I then gave the bone to my dog. I thought she'd gnaw on it for an hour or so (like marrow bones), but she just crunched it right up and ate it all in about ten minutes! I wasn't expecting that. She's a happy dog :)
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She ate the whole bone?
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yep
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Wow, I thought only hyenas and big cats could do that. That's very eye-opening. Combined with the story of the African man who can crack open marrow bones with his teeth, it suggests to me that scientists may need to modify their views on the amount of marrow, bone and tough meat that Stone Age proto-humans and canids were capable of eating. Perhaps ingesting bone accounted for a much higher amount of calcium intake than scientists assume?
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well, I really don't know what makes me brave sometimes to try 'new' (for me) foods cuz if they don't work they are horrible. However, I did try egg yolk and did just great! I don't know if it's my farmer, or if I can just tolerate egg yolk now? But a year ago (different farmer) egg yolks were not at all agreeing with me.
I've also been sneaking in tiny amounts of my dogs organ/meat mix. I find the smell (kinda strong) entirely appealing, but brain is still opposing. But, it's a start!
Oh, and I've eaten some fresh meat and marrow and had no problem... also disaster in the past to eat wo aging a few days first.
This is progress? What to try next?? :D
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well, I really don't know what makes me brave sometimes to try 'new' (for me) foods cuz if they don't work they are horrible. However, I did try egg yolk and did just great! I don't know if it's my farmer, or if I can just tolerate egg yolk now? But a year ago (different farmer) egg yolks were not at all agreeing with me.
I've also been sneaking in tiny amounts of my dogs organ/meat mix. I find the smell (kinda strong) entirely appealing, but brain is still opposing. But, it's a start!
Oh, and I've eaten some fresh meat and marrow and had no problem... also disaster in the past to eat wo aging a few days first.
This is progress? What to try next?? :D
Ioanna, that definitely sounds like progress! ;D
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well, I really don't know what makes me brave sometimes to try 'new' (for me) foods cuz if they don't work they are horrible. However, I did try egg yolk and did just great! I don't know if it's my farmer, or if I can just tolerate egg yolk now? But a year ago (different farmer) egg yolks were not at all agreeing with me.
I've also been sneaking in tiny amounts of my dogs organ/meat mix. I find the smell (kinda strong) entirely appealing, but brain is still opposing. But, it's a start!
Oh, and I've eaten some fresh meat and marrow and had no problem... also disaster in the past to eat wo aging a few days first.
This is progress? What to try next?? :D
Awesome. It sounds like your body is healing itself up some. ;D
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I'm so disappointed! The farmer I have been going to has informed me that he has changed from 100% grass-fed to 97% grass-fed. He let me know so that if I wanted to buy any of the remaining 100% that I still could. This is the best/freshest tasting beef I've ever had, so I know they were doing something right. Oh well, I'll have to find another source around here.
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Did he say why Ioanna? Is it easier to winter them on something other than hay? Or is it something worse?
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Hi, Ioanna! What a pretty avatar pic - are those butterfly flowers?!?
What kind/brand of food do you feed your doggy? I'm wondering if you buy it online or in-store. (Sorry if you already mentioned it somewhere in your journal.)
I hope your play is going well. :)
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Dan, he just said "the difficulty of finding beef feeders without any grain is extreme"... what does that mean?? He has been in the process of moving his farm, and now is settling into a new area. This is his first 'new' news. He says the grain is 100% organic... oh, now i'm relieved l) does that mean there could be soy in there?? I live in the midwest... as in open stretches of land forever... what is/why the feeder?? Actually, now I remember he said it would take a year to get them back to 100% grass-fed, so maybe he has to tend to the land he just bought first??
Thanks Cinna! They are called 'common blue-butterfly'. I actually put a real pic of me at first for about 10min that lasted, but I am such a wimp... I like butterflies :)
I get a ground beef organ mix for my dog from my farmer as well. They are dog people, so they make a dog mix. And I can't believe, but I started eating tiny little pieces of it and now I love the stuff. The smell is stronger, but I found it appealing. I was just having issues because it's not entirely homogenous.. I can see chunks of stuff in there, lol. But now I eat almost just fine. Some bites are really bitter tasting to me.. is this the liver?? If so, I don't like it at all. The rest is tasty though.. gosh, I eat my dog's food -X Slankers sells something similar though if you're interested. I've not found anything like this in any stores. If my farmer didn't sell this, I'd probably just buy meat, fat, organs from him and grind my own. I age her (dog) food too, lol.
And thanks about the play!!.. you're so kind! It's going great, and just a few weeks until opening night.. I can't wait! :)
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2 points:- some farmers seem to think that, nutritionally speaking,cattle that are fed only on grains in the winter months become effectively 100% grassfed between August and November, once they're off the grains in early March. Not sure if that's true, but maybe it is.
Also, you could always add mercola's krill-oil supplement to these raw meats as the extra omega-3s would offset the negative effect of a little grainfeeding on the omega-3 levels.
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Also, you could always add mercola's krill-oil supplement to these raw meats as the extra omega-3s would offset the negative effect of a little grainfeeding on the omega-3 levels.
It won't help though if you're hyper-sensitive to the grain.
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I don't think 3% grain is going to make a big deal. In the wild ruminants would be eating some seeds anyway as plants (grass, whatever other leaves they eat) go to seed.
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Do you think there could be soy in there though?
I get so ill when I eat soy, I see at as so cruel to feed to any living creature that I wouldn't buy from them just for that.
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Thanks Cinna! They are called 'common blue-butterfly'. I actually put a real pic of me at first for about 10min that lasted, but I am such a wimp... I like butterflies :)
Haha, I thought they were actual flowers! That looked like gorgeous blue butterflies! I was, like, "WOW. You so have to hand it to Mother Nature... that she could make such an incredible-looking flower!" Haha, I'm still laughing at myself. ;D Aw, I missed your real pic avatar - hey, post a pic of you in your play costume! We'll all pretend that it's some other beautiful character and that it's not really you if that makes you feel better. ;)
I get a ground beef organ mix for my dog from my farmer as well. They are dog people, so they make a dog mix. And I can't believe, but I started eating tiny little pieces of it and now I love the stuff. The smell is stronger, but I found it appealing. I was just having issues because it's not entirely homogenous.. I can see chunks of stuff in there, lol. But now I eat almost just fine. Some bites are really bitter tasting to me.. is this the liver?? If so, I don't like it at all. The rest is tasty though.. gosh, I eat my dog's food -X Slankers sells something similar though if you're interested. I've not found anything like this in any stores. If my farmer didn't sell this, I'd probably just buy meat, fat, organs from him and grind my own. I age her (dog) food too, lol.
We have a few, smaller-scale, "better," like health-food-store pet stores in my area that sell raw pet food. I've been feeding my kitties the Stella & Chewy's and Bravo brands lately - I feel like these brands don't go too crazy adding in additional veggies and other stuff. My cats have also eaten Nature's Variety and Primal brands as well, which sound good, but they add too many things - I think because it sounds good to humans. Actually... I am now remembering that the convenient "patties" or "nuggets" tend to have all this stuff in them. The ground mixes (that you have to cut up yourself) are much simpler. Wow, yeah, I got lazy. :D Some of the formulas sound so yummy - but then I think, I don't think my cats should eat more carbs than I do! ??? I didn't study the percentages though (yet). My reactions were based on reading ingredients.
Here's an example of one product I can buy at a pet store:
Feline Venison Formula (Primal Pet Foods)
Ingredients: Venison, Venison Hearts, Venison Livers, Ground Venison Bones, Organic Collard Greens, Organic Green Beans, Organic Turnips, Papaya, Cranberries, Blueberries, Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, Organic Sunflower Seeds, Organic Cilantro, Organic Squash, Sardine Oil, Taurine, Spirulina, Organic Coconut Oil, Organic Ginger, Organic Sage, Mixed Tocopherols (source of vitamin E).
So gourmet... so not mono-eating! :)
Anyways, Slankers pet food sounds great (being grassfed - most of the raw pet food I buy in the stores is antibiotic- and hormone-free, but not pastured), but it contains no ground bone. Does your dog mix contain bone? I read somewhere that it was really important for raw bone to balance out a pet's muscle/organ food mix... Actually, your doggy does eat raw whole bones (which are better than ground), so you have nothing to worry about... I'll figure something out. Bravo has some great products (some simple mixes with just meat, organ, and ground bone)... antibiotic/hormone-free, but not pastured. -\
I prefer not to order online yet and to take advantage of what the various pet stores offer (they tend to offer different things and I'm known - well, only by me, no one else cares :P ...except for maybe my cats - to go by more than one or two pet store(s) to get what I want to get for my cats). I'm so particular. My kitties are lucky! I guess I will go back to cutting the simpler ground mix "logs," but when they defrosted too much, wow I made such a bloody mess! [I actually open the packages/logs - I prefer not to slice through the packaged logs while frozen so I don't add microscopic traces of plastic to their food (did I mention that I'm AR? I mean, so caring??)]. I'm still figuring out my favorite sources of RAF for myself and I'm doing the same for the kits. :) Thanks for the info, girlie. And I'm so proud of you for eating your dog's food! ;D
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Do you think there could be soy in there though?
I get so ill when I eat soy, I see at as so cruel to feed to any living creature that I wouldn't buy from them just for that.
I would totally bet the money if I had it that the "grains" contain soy. My sis taught/teaches thousands of kids all over the country at dance conventions and one time several years ago, when her students went around the room saying what their farms grew (she was in farm territory), she said that so many (maybe even most of them, I don't remember) said "soybeans." Even back then - when I still consumed soy! - I found that scary.
I feel as you do - even a small amount, it just seems wrong and cruel. I have eaten some grain-finished buffalo (and ignorantly, some grainfed buffalo - my body is saying no to that now), but am totally transitioning to 100% pastured/grass-fed... even if I have to go without sometimes. Also, according to http://wildideabuffalo.com/didyouknow.html, "92% of all Buffalo raised in the US are raised in the cattle feedlot way, (confined for last 3 months, fed an unnatural diet)" and "eating feedlot / grain finished buffalo negates most of the positive effects of eating buffalo meat." The case may be different with some other grain-finished meats (from a smaller farm, for example, maybe?), but for me it's not worth the chance. If the last three months of life is confined and unnatural (grains/soy), I prefer not to eat it. I was a cooked foods snob, why wouldn't I be a raw foods snob damnit. :D
Thanks for being so inspiring, Ioanna!
P.S. Oh my gosh, I'm a Deer Hunter! ;D Today, I feel more like a Butterfly Catcher/Let-Goer, lol. Butterfly Chaser...
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Scallops and oysters yesterday and all good :) This is so exciting, I'm so happy and healthy :) And oysters are socially acceptable so now I've got my social food. I think scallops are usually cooked though?
Hi Cinna - I'm still trying to find what my favorite sources too. Every time I think I've got it, I either move or (as recently) a farmer starts including grains or something. I try to keep it local too, like you. Lol, and similar in the way I cut the plastic packaging, too funny. I try to cut it as soon as possible too so the meat won't sit any longer in that material... just in case that helps :)
And I love your new photo! Your last avatar was beautiful, but now we can see more of your face so you're even more beautiful! :)
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Scallops and oysters yesterday and all good :) This is so exciting, I'm so happy and healthy :) And oysters are socially acceptable so now I've got my social food. I think scallops are usually cooked though?
Fantastic news. And such good foods to find out you can tolerate. ;D
If oysters work you should give clams and mussels a shot to see if they sit good as well. Cockles are a possibility as well but I'm not sure how much harder they are to open. It definitely opens up a vista of culinary possibilities when out to eat though. Congrats. :)
Oh, I don't know if you'll find scallops raw at a restaurant but maybe you could request them raw as most seafood is now viewed as acceptable to be be under-cooked or raw in the west.
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Make sure you get get unshucked oysters. These are delicous.
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Oh, I don't know if you'll find scallops raw at a restaurant but maybe you could request them raw as most seafood is now viewed as acceptable to be be under-cooked or raw in the west.
This seems to be true. My fave seafood guy at WF said that people will ask for some scallops on just the paper (unwrapped) because they're going to eat it straight away/in the store. He (seafood guy) knows that I'm eating raw and doesn't recommend that I eat most of the things raw, but he offered to make me some fresh raw seafood poke (I think not currently on our menu, but available by special request - and/or the prepared foods poke contains cooked seafood) if I come in early enough and ask him (whenever I talk to him, I'm shopping right before closing time). He also said he would grill sardines for me... I asked him if he would undercook them for me and he said yes, they would be raw inside. People are so wonderful. :)
I try to keep it local too, like you. Lol, and similar in the way I cut the plastic packaging, too funny. I try to cut it as soon as possible too so the meat won't sit any longer in that material... just in case that helps :)
And I love your new photo! Your last avatar was beautiful, but now we can see more of your face so you're even more beautiful! :)
Lol, I cut it asap too - straight from the store (frozen) to the ref for defrosting. :)
Aw, thank you for the compliment, beautiful - you are too sweet. I'm just vain, lol. It's really the gig make-up and flat-ironing and requisite "natural" straightening elixir hair product. Not paleo, but when you have long curly/crazy hair all the time, sometimes you just really want a change (I had most of my hair cut off last last spring, but I wanted to grow it out again for work). You might not recognize me when I'm not gigging. ;) After changing out of costume, the first thing I have to, have to, have to take off is lipstick/lipgloss. I hate wearing anything on my lips besides maybe natural lip balm and I never wear lipstick when I'm not performing. I don't like the thought of inadvertently eating lipstick or making other people eat lipstick when they kiss you. ;D (Icky, I don't like the mess.) I like talking about scallops, raw pet food, hair, and lipstick in the same post. :D
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Hi, Ioanna! Did you get an ab ball chair? Or did you get a regular ab ball and "make it" a chair? Have you been using it at work? How is it working out for you? :)
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Hi, Ioanna! Did you get an ab ball chair? Or did you get a regular ab ball and "make it" a chair? Have you been using it at work? How is it working out for you? :)
I got an ab ball (or balance ball?).. and I call it my 'chair' :) I like it much better than the chair I had before, and it even rolls right under my desk. I got it last week, and since then haven't had to sit too much (a good thing!), but I'll be at my desk soon enough to give a better report! I know my co-workers like it... they told me they've been doing crunches on it when I'm not using it :)
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It's opening night tonight for my play... woohoo... I'm so excited!!
The downside to this fun is that stage makeup makes my nose run :(
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I got an ab ball (or balance ball?).. and I call it my 'chair' :) I like it much better than the chair I had before, and it even rolls right under my desk. I got it last week, and since then haven't had to sit too much (a good thing!), but I'll be at my desk soon enough to give a better report! I know my co-workers like it... they told me they've been doing crunches on it when I'm not using it :)
Which do you think is better, an ab-ball or a height-adjustable ab-ball chair (http://www.evolutionchair.com/images/MimiAdiansmallweb.jpg) or kneeling-type chairs: (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1wHfU1IM-UE/STyRNtVQEDI/AAAAAAAABTo/wOgeAh2vJgU/s1600/balans%2Boffice%2Bchair%2Bvarier%2Bfurniture.jpg) ? I like rocking chairs, so I'm thinking I might like a rocking kneeling chair, but it doesn't look adjustable (so it might not be fit my desk) and I doubt it encourages as much active sitting as a ball does.
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It's opening night tonight for my play... woohoo... I'm so excited!!
The downside to this fun is that stage makeup makes my nose run :(
Break a leg, girlie!! ;D
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It's opening night tonight for my play... woohoo... I'm so excited!!
Good luck with it Ioanna. :)
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Thanks guys, all went super! and so fun!!
The woman that played my character on Broadway was there and she gave me such a great compliment!... she said she wished she could have interpreted the lines the way I did. She can't be for real, I'm sure she had her own brilliant way, but still a nice thing to say after opening night. And I got invited by another director at the show to do another Shakespeare.. I just don't know when that will be.
I'll try to post some cast pics soon.
This has taken all my free time, that once it's over (this weekend is the last weekend) I'm going to be so bummed :( ... all the more reason for a trip to SoCal :D
It's about a year for me of rpd, and I'm just in awe of where I am. A year ago I could not even eat fresh meat without taking a few steps backward. Seems I needed to age everything. I haven't tried any fruits or veg this summer, but I have been eating all kinds of seafood (fresh), marrow, red meats (mostly aged and beef or bison, but if I eat fresh I'll be just fine too), and.. I think that's about it. I am so happy and well!
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Thanks guys, all went super! and so fun!!
The woman that played my character on Broadway was there and she gave me such a great compliment!... she said she wished she could have interpreted the lines the way I did. She can't be for real, I'm sure she had her own brilliant way, but still a nice thing to say after opening night. And I got invited by another director at the show to do another Shakespeare.. I just don't know when that will be.
I'll try to post some cast pics soon.
This has taken all my free time, that once it's over (this weekend is the last weekend) I'm going to be so bummed :( ... all the more reason for a trip to SoCal :D
It's about a year for me of rpd, and I'm just in awe of where I am. A year ago I could not even eat fresh meat without taking a few steps backward. Seems I needed to age everything. I haven't tried any fruits or veg this summer, but I have been eating all kinds of seafood (fresh), marrow, red meats (mostly aged and beef or bison, but if I eat fresh I'll be just fine too), and.. I think that's about it. I am so happy and well!
Go for it, your fairly easy on the eye. Might even get more chicks into raw, theres not many.
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Some photos from my play and a radio interview we did... they're a bit silly, especially the clothes... and glasses!!! Hopefully I'll get better ones.
http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad305/amassie19/60336_468544568618_770718618_6544560_5954283_n.jpg (http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad305/amassie19/60336_468544568618_770718618_6544560_5954283_n.jpg)
http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad305/amassie19/46864_431509686747_500611747_5140051_2354073_n.jpg (http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad305/amassie19/46864_431509686747_500611747_5140051_2354073_n.jpg)
http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad305/amassie19/46859_440924970752_60772585752_5543418_7862210_n.jpg (http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad305/amassie19/46859_440924970752_60772585752_5543418_7862210_n.jpg)
http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad305/amassie19/46859_440924980752_60772585752_5543419_2270230_n.jpg (http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad305/amassie19/46859_440924980752_60772585752_5543419_2270230_n.jpg)
http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad305/amassie19/44719_440925040752_60772585752_5543423_2181201_n.jpg (http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad305/amassie19/44719_440925040752_60772585752_5543423_2181201_n.jpg)
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hey what was ur play? x
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Congrats Wonder Woman! I like the photo with the glasses best, actually.
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Cool. you look so healthy. I thought the glasses photo was the best too, congrats on one year,
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hey what was ur play? x
'much ado about nothing' .. same language, but costume and design to the 1980's.. i like shakespeare done in the classic way, but this was still fun, and hopefully entertaining!
paleophil and wodg - thank you!!
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oh, gosh, i can't believe this day has come..
i get from my farmer a dog-food mix that (he says) is meat, heart, liver, and kidney.
it always smelled really good, and i can't remember how long ago, but i thought about trying some as way to incorporate organ meat. i have no idea how many months (mental preparation) after this i actually started eating these itsy bitsy bites (imagine sour face) daily. the bites got bigger, and now.. i just like eating my dog's food -X
surely, i will be single for life ;)
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;D
Way to go!
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surely, i will be single for life ;)
No, don't think like that. :)
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oh, gosh, i can't believe this day has come..
i get from my farmer a dog-food mix that (he says) is meat, heart, liver, and kidney.
it always smelled really good, and i can't remember how long ago, but i thought about trying some as way to incorporate organ meat. i have no idea how many months (mental preparation) after this i actually started eating these itsy bitsy bites (imagine sour face) daily. the bites got bigger, and now.. i just like eating my dog's food -X
surely, i will be single for life ;)
I really LOLed at that! heheh
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEWb9VnMTCM
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thanks, miles! ;)
i was walking my dog around the neighborhood while a nearby high school x-country team was out running. there were three girls at the end of the pack (of boys) running barefoot. actually, two were barefoot, one kept her fluorescent green socks on. anyway, i was glad to see this. and yesterday there was a guy walking into whole foods with 5-fingers. a good start for the midwest! :)
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This summer me and a friend took some mushrooms, went out to sushi, then ended up running barefoot home just for fun (it was like a 40-50 min run) through the city streets and then through a huge golf course, it was raining buckets so running in my wet leather sandals was rubbing on my feet too much. My feet felt all warm and fuzzy after, like a lot of blood was flowing through them, it was amazing. However the only reason I ran through the city barefoot was because there was so much rain that it literally washed the sidewalks, otherwise I am sure I would've stepped on broken glass.
Its very very enjoyable running on warm, wet concrete in the summer, everyone should try it on a really rainy, hot night. I heard that we should not run on concrete barefoot but I didn't find any problem with it, in fact the hardness of the concrete was teaching me to step more "softly" and I started using more of my foot muscles then when running on grass barefoot.
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I used to think that there were no potential problems with barefooting and barefoot-style-shoe walking or running on concrete, but after walking (with a brief sprint two or three times a day) to work every weekday on it for nearly 2 miles a day in Vivo Barefoot shoes, I did start to develop chronic pain and weakness in my right foot, which had never given me a problem before. In contrast, when I walked the same distance on a different route to work (from my old apartment) on mostly blacktop and grass I never experienced a problem over a nearly two year period, even though I was doing more extensive sprinting during those walks. Concrete is apparently a harder, denser surface than blacktop.
I'm not saying that anyone else would necessarily have any problems with concrete, just sharing my personal experience. Also, injuries from running on concrete are apparently not unheard of, though most of them have of course occurred in wearers of shoes with raised heels:
"Some runners may experience injuries when running on concrete surfaces. The problem with running on concrete is that the body adjusts to this flat surface running and some of the muscles will become weaker, along with the added impact of running on a harder surface. Therefore it is advised to change terrain occasionally – such as trail, beach, or grass running. This is more unstable ground and allows the legs to strengthen different muscles." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running
"Shin splints
Symptoms
Pain in the shins
Causes
Overpronation
Running on hard surfaces like concrete sidewalks
..."
http://www.half-marathon-running.com/running-injuries.html
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Hi, beautiful! I am still taking a break, but had to stop by your journal... I love your play pix! You look gorgeous and adorable. :)
Omg, by the time you visit SoCal, I will have met a lot more RAFers in the Los Angeles area, so I will have PLENTY of awesome, wonderful men for you to choose from! Sorry honey, I don't think you'll be single for long after you move to SoCal. ;) When I bought my kitties raw food at the pet store a few days ago, the guy (who knows how I eat) joked, "This isn't for you now, is it?" I laughed and said no, not this time.
Omg, he also said that Halo, the brand that makes Liv-a-Littles treats, told him that bodybuilders actually snack on lots of Liv-a-Littles! :o I was like, for reals?! He said that's what the company told him! Haha... that is a kind of pricey snack ($10+ for less than 3 oz.), but I guess they like it because of the freeze-dried soft-crunchiness - the crispness. ;D That's why my cats love it too - the texture (LOL). Actually, the bodybuilders probably get the Liv-a-Littles wholesale direct from Halo - so that would be a better deal. :D
Come to SoCal - I don't think we'll have a problem finding men (yes, plural!) who would be thrilled to marry you because you are Ioanna and because you eat your dog's food. :-* I'm totally serious - they will be begging you to eat RAF in front of them.
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What's up, doll? ;D
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What's up, doll? ;D
That's exactly what I want to say too. :)
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That's exactly what I want to say too. :)
Sweet - Ioanna doesn't believe me when I tell her that many people would and do notice her absence and miss her. :-* (But I also understand that she needs her breaks - I'm not trying to be the pot... :P )
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;) you two made me smile huge.. thanks! ;D
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Howdy, Ioanna - how's America's RPD sweetheart doing?? It's been crazy beachy weather here lately (86+ degrees) - I thought of you. :)
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I thought of you. :)
It's really amazing, 'cause I thought about Ioanna too recently :)
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It's been crazy beachy weather here lately (86+ degrees)
jealous
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Howdy, Ioanna - how's America's RPD sweetheart doing?? It's been crazy beachy weather here lately (86+ degrees) - I thought of you. :)
aawweee cinna, i think you are the sweetheart! i hope you've been able to enjoy some beach time.. our first frost was last nite :( but i'm telling myself to get through the winter and then to visit socal and we'll be bff ever after ;)
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It's really amazing, 'cause I thought about Ioanna too recently :)
;D
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It's really amazing, 'cause I thought about Ioanna too recently :)
Haha, we are officially Ioanna's stalkers, Hannibal. ;)
jealous
You must visit when Ioanna does, Kyle.
aawweee cinna, i think you are the sweetheart! i hope you've been able to enjoy some beach time.. our first frost was last nite :( but i'm telling myself to get through the winter and then to visit socal and we'll be bff ever after ;)
I can't be America's RPD sweetheart, Ioanna. I could possibly be America's RVAF bingeing compulsive overeating recovering sugar/carb addict Twix and baklava devotee sweetheart??
I was actually at the harbor in the middle of the day for a group of special ed high school kids (lots of fun) and the beach was right there, the surf was loud, and the sun was hot - gorgeous, gorgeous day - but I had to meet a friend.
Omg, KD was talking smack about you in my journal, I mean his journal - you should check it out... j/k, quite the opposite. :)
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You must visit when Ioanna does, Kyle.
whence?
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whence?
Next spring or summer?... she's still thinking about when exactly, so if you have a suggestion/recommendation for what works with your sched (spring break, summer break, et al.), let her know. :)
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Next spring or summer?... she's still thinking about when exactly, so if you have a suggestion/recommendation for what works with your sched (spring break, summer break, et al.), let her know. :)
That sounds good, but I actually meant where to :P
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That sounds good, but I actually meant where to :P
Dun tit mean 'from'(not 'to')?
"[The Ring] must be taken deep into Morrrdor and cast back into the fiery chasm from whence it came."
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Haha, we are officially Ioanna's stalkers, Hannibal. ;)
That's obvious.
She has been my number ONE on this forum since... I can't remember. :)
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That sounds good, but I actually meant where to :P
OK thanks, Kyle, I feel like an idiot. ;) Southern California - specifically, Los Angeles area and maybe Santa Barbara to the north and everything in between (Hollywood, Downtown L.A., Venice, Santa Monica, Malibu, Lex's place, the valley, Ventura County, lots of west coast/beach action, et al.). Maybe San Luis Obispo... maybe San Francisco?? Whatever you guys want! ;D
Dun tit mean 'from'(not 'to')?
"[The Ring] must be taken deep into Morrrdor and cast back into the fiery chasm from whence it came."
Lol - you are probably right.
That's obvious.
She has been my number ONE on this forum since... I can't remember. :)
Totes understandable... you have fine taste, Hannibal! :)
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Oh that's a great place to visit. I have some relatives in Santa Barbara I might be able to stay with as well.
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Totes understandable... you have fine taste, Hannibal! :)
I would say - exquisite - in this case ;)
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for real?!?.. i don't know what i've done to deserve you two.. but, too sweet - i'm blushing ;)
thanks for making me smile so huge today :-*
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hahaha, cinna - i would have responded the same way ;)
as for the when though, whatever works for everybody!
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Oh that's a great place to visit. I have some relatives in Santa Barbara I might be able to stay with as well.
Coolio!! ;D SB is soooooooo lovely...
I would say - exquisite - in this case ;)
OK, you are freaking me out - I was going to write "exquisite" but I consciously decided on "fine," as in, to suggest indirectly that the girl was fine! (Of course, she is exquisite too.)
hahaha, cinna - i would have responded the same way ;)
Thanks, angel. :)
Work this weekend was super fantastic. I performed at a wedding reception last night. The hotel staff and band members treated me like a princess and there is nothing like performing "joy" in a big room full of so much love... I haven't been able to sleep much the last couple of days so I'm cranky, but still lit from this weekend.
(Lol - I'm listening to Miles' Mr. Rogers post in the "What are you listening to?" thread in another browser... LOL!) I've been wanting to laugh a lot more lately. I don't think I laugh enough. I love George Lopez right now. He makes me laugh! I wish I could be as funny as he. :)
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Work this weekend was super fantastic. I performed at a wedding reception last night. The hotel staff and band members treated me like a princess and there is nothing like performing "joy" in a big room full of so much love... I haven't been able to sleep much the last couple of days so I'm cranky, but still lit from this weekend.
(Lol - I'm listening to Miles' Mr. Rogers post in the "What are you listening to?" thread in another browser... LOL!) I've been wanting to laugh a lot more lately. I don't think I laugh enough. I love George Lopez right now. He makes me laugh! I wish I could be as funny as he. :)
a wedding sounds like a super fun place to perform!.. formal and happy!
nah, you're just as sweet as ever ;)
laughing.. i just though of a 'last comic standing' routine i thought was funny, only i don't remember the comedian's name??.. but his 'gig' was 'we gotta go girl'.. it's really funny, i'll try to find it :D
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http://www.youtube.com/v/ceasq8j4pXU?fs=1&hl=en_US
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i have no idea why it embedded twice :P
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i have no idea why it embedded twice :P
fixed :)
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i experimented with a taste of raw honey (raw afaik, of course) last nite.. i stayed home puking all morning :( ... gross! like the way food poisoning feels. the idea of sweet is so repulsive to me atm, i'll never touch it again. -v
what a waste of an otherwise beautiful day!
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thats a bummer you had such a bad experience. i'm with you on the too sweet thing. I don't think its fair for some to label it just sugar - as it must have some other kind of minerals or healthful properties that sugar does not at least for some..but to me the act of eating honey is very similar to opening a pack of equal in a diner and dropping it on a steak or something. grooooossssssssseeeeee. I do sometimes try it as some kind of aid/supplement whathaveyou and just a dab is enough of a compliment for me prior to feeling queasy. I can see eating alot of honeycomb..the only raw paleo equivalent to a moon pie.
I hope you keep trying new things though like you mentioned before. I've been trying to disregard alot of unconfirmed notions around food, and have been largely pleased with the results. The sky here went from solid white/grey to black at around 4:48 here, but hoping you catch another beautiful day soon.
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a nice thing to say! encouragement is nice to hear, especially that i've been angry with myself about eating something when i 'should have known better' :( i feel great today!, amazing what 24hrs can do :) though i did learn my lesson well. i'll have to try my experiments on friday night, lol. and the weather was great again, but i was working for most of it.
I've been trying to disregard alot of unconfirmed notions around food, and have been largely pleased with the results.
do you mean in general, or within a 'paleo community'?
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a nice thing to say! encouragement is nice to hear, especially that i've been angry with myself about eating something when i 'should have known better' :( i feel great today!, amazing what 24hrs can do :) though i did learn my lesson well. i'll have to try my experiments on friday night, lol. and the weather was great again, but i was working for most of it.
do you mean in general, or within a 'paleo community'?
nah, other than perhaps some opinions of others, or results in the past in totally different circumstances (afterall things do change even within the same person with the same situations/intake/whatever with time) how would you know? really.. I mean..speaking for myself i've done ALOT of experimentation with diet and have no clue really other than how I feel/look/preform and perhaps some lab stuff to say things are good, but who knows what major necessary factor (high fat, low veg, no salt etc..) is really causing this or what little variable might be missing/make things go even smoother more beneficial or even possibly be necessary long term. yeah I mean both, sometimes even I catch myself making food judgments here on things that I am not even 100% sure about (must be a shock to some that i'm aware of this :) ). but yeah..always good to have a clear pathway and schedule before you mess around to much with anything foreign so you know what is really what.
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nah, you're just as sweet as ever ;)
Lol - I was using less smileys than I normally would... I interpret that as crankiness... that is crankiness for me. :)
laughing.. i just though of a 'last comic standing' routine i thought was funny, only i don't remember the comedian's name??.. but his 'gig' was 'we gotta go girl'.. it's really funny, i'll try to find it :D
Omg, thank you so much for sharing that vid! "...three hours of bar equity into her..." - hilarity! ;D
Btw, the Pink vid you posted gave me goosebumps, a lot! I can only imagine what it was like experiencing that live in person. :) I loved her costume! Would that make good bridesmaid outfits? Btw, I'm getting married - would you be one of my bridesmaids?? :)
I'm so glad you're feeling better. :) I do tend to do my experimentation when I don't have work later that day.
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i really struggle with the 'separation' i feel i must endure 100% of the time. i just want a real and un-virtual friend :'( :'( :'(
i will see cinna i a few months or so, and then i will stop my crying :)
@ cinna: i love that song! and yes, perfect bridesmaid outfit... as long as you get married on a beautiful beach cuz i hate to be cold :D i'll start planning your bachelorette party!
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a very neat experience for me at the moment.. i reconnected, after years of searching, with my all-time fave childhood teacher. he was the chorus and music teacher. i used to help him carry his guitar or briefcase to his car at the end of the day because i would always be late at school waiting for my mom to come get me. he used to call me "muscles", and he'd take me out to ice cream at the end of every semester. he also wrote a ton of music, and i got to be in the chorus of one of the songs. (you know the songs where there is a kids' chorus in the background?.. was one of those.) was an awesome experience in the recording studio!!
well, we got in contact last week, and today i received a care package from him with music (including song above) and photos. it's quite meaningful to me as i lost all of these kinds of things due to a tornado, and all the moving around when i was growing up that i've lost so much contact with anyone/thing from childhood. i have some baby photos from my grandparents and some aunts/uncles.. but other than that, i pretty much lost everything to a tornado. so even the photos he sent are so meaningful!
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i really struggle with the 'separation' i feel i must endure 100% of the time. i just want a real and un-virtual friend :'( :'( :'(
i will see cinna i a few months or so, and then i will stop my crying :)
Please don't cry. :) We are connected, so there is no separation. :)
a very neat experience for me at the moment.. i reconnected, after years of searching, with my all-time fave childhood teacher. he was the chorus and music teacher. i used to help him carry his guitar or briefcase to his car at the end of the day because i would always be late at school waiting for my mom to come get me. he used to call me "muscles", and he'd take me out to ice cream at the end of every semester. he also wrote a ton of music, and i got to be in the chorus of one of the songs. (you know the songs where there is a kids' chorus in the background?.. was one of those.) was an awesome experience in the recording studio!!
well, we got in contact last week, and today i received a care package from him with music (including song above) and photos. it's quite meaningful to me as i lost all of these kinds of things due to a tornado, and all the moving around when i was growing up that i've lost so much contact with anyone/thing from childhood. i have some baby photos from my grandparents and some aunts/uncles.. but other than that, i pretty much lost everything to a tornado. so even the photos he sent are so meaningful!
That is beautiful, Ioanna - I'm so happy for you. :) I'm sure it meant a lot to your teacher, too! I can see you as a little girl, "Muscles" - so cute! :)
Omg, my sis and I were also the last kids to be picked up at school. Sometimes it was good, sometimes it was bad... By the time I was a sophomore, it was very bad and one of the "straws" that led to my dropping out of high school. To this day, it breaks my heart when someone says they'll be somewhere at a certain time and without notice or without informing me, they're not there when they said that they would be there. I'm usually running late (but sometimes I surprise myself ;) ) so I don't have a problem with people being late... I have issue with people not coming through. That's why reliability is so important to me. I'm very flexible and understanding - cancel on me, postpone plans, whatever - but just tell me beforehand, not after the fact. Don't leave me hanging, waiting, expecting... :)
I can't imagine losing so much in a tornado... :( I'm so glad you have some "new" old treasure to cherish. :)
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i love how when i eat my body turns into this little furnace and i'm so pleasantly warm, haha, a silly thing to say. hope this is normal?? my first healthy rpd winter, and the cold is not so intolerable as i remember it.
@ cinna - i have the same issues, lol. there's sort of an anxiety to waiting, especially when you're a kid. on the days i was supposed to see my dad, he would pick me up from school or practice, but he often enough didn't show, so i was really tense on those days. life before cell phones...
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i love how when i eat my body turns into this little furnace and i'm so pleasantly warm, haha, a silly thing to say. hope this is normal?? my first healthy rpd winter, and the cold is not so intolerable as i remember it.
I believe yes, and thankfully because my external heat connection hasn't even hooked on yet! I sleep on the ground to boot. I'm not sure if the food itself immediately has an affect but generally by body feels less hit even riding around with a spring jacket in 40 deg on the bike. The only drag for me is its impossible for my food to warm up to 'room temperature' (presently) and eating cold food is sometimes less fun in the winter (although raw veg food is way worse). I find I have no problems in extremes so far in hot or cold. This complete winter will be the real experiment for me too, unless I duck out to cali!!!
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i love how when i eat my body turns into this little furnace and i'm so pleasantly warm, haha, a silly thing to say. hope this is normal?? my first healthy rpd winter, and the cold is not so intolerable as i remember it.
Aw, you're like "un radiateur" a la "The City of Lost Children"! Several years ago, I had a crush on Ron Perlman so I freaked out a little when I saw him at a performing arts high school musical (attending the show, not performing in it). He just seems so wonderful.
Last week, I performed at a lesbian nightclub event. The dj was redunculous (redunculously amazing). It was the first time they were having this event at this particular locale... Whether they hire me again or not, I hope the event becomes successful (it will be monthly).
I was toying with the idea of doing troupe work again. I thought a show last Saturday would convince me that I wanted to, but no... still preferring to solo. :)
This complete winter will be the real experiment for me too, unless I duck out to cali!!!
That would be the prudent thing to do. :) When Ioanna gets here, we can finally be the Three Amigos - as the universe intended. ;)
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Jefe: We have many beautiful piñatas for your birthday celebration, each one filled with little surprises!
El Guapo: How many piñatas?
Jefe: Many piñatas, many!
El Guapo: Jefe, would you say I have a plethora of piñatas?
Jefe: A what?
El Guapo: A plethora.
Jefe: Oh yes, El Guapo. You have a plethora.
El Guapo: Jefe, what is a plethora?
Jefe: Why, El Guapo?
El Guapo: Well, you just told me that I had a plethora, and I would just like to know if you know what it means to have a plethora. I would not like to think that someone would tell someone else he has a plethora, and then find out that that person has no idea what it means to have a plethora.
Jefe: El Guapo, I know that I, Jefe, do not have your superior intellect and education, but could it be that once again, you are angry at something else, and are looking to take it out on me?
"Do you have anything besides Mexican food?" - Dusty Bottoms.
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Hahahahahahaha! My favorite is the canteen/lip balm scene, lol... reminds me of my sis, b/c she's addicted to lip balm.
Wow KD, did you transcribe all that dialogue? Or did you copy and paste? Wait... nevermind. ;D
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Well, IBS was my greatest obstacle... I'm not sure what else to use as a measure for improvement or if you have something in mind? I don't think I've changed on the outside. If you count these as improvements: I've learned to listen to myself over my peers, doctors, and 'gurus'... I have confidence (both restored and gained)... I just know my body is thriving now. I have very dry skin at my heels... if that ever clears up I'll be shocked!, but I'll let you know. I used to burp all the time.. like in the morning during a workout I'd be tasting whatever I ate the last evening... that stopped immediately, I almost forgot to mention that it was so long ago.
I used to be into endurance training... mainly swimming and triathlons ('sprint distance', not ironman or anything close!) with weights on the side. I did well in races, so I just kept doing them. I like racing, and I like the mental component... like I'm sure I've finished ahead of competitors just because I didn't 'give up' first. I started getting recognition in my town among triathloners... people were willing to pay me ridiculous amount of money imo for an hour swim lesson or so. So the sport started becoming a life style. I had to be sure to get enough sleep though or I will be an emotional wreck and very irritated. My body type has never been as toned as I would like... more just skinny wo definition.
Now I'm trying something new... sprinting and heavy weights... to see how my body adjusts. It's winter, so I've been mostly wight training and joined a volleyball team, yoga on the weekend.
No.. I'm too scared!!... I tried a cooked chicken breast (was either from my farmer or hfs, and totally plain) a few months ago and that brought me right back to 'square one'... I have no idea why... but if chicken doesn't work, I don't know what will? I hate it, but I am anti-social eater entirely -[
Any luck on the heels?
Did you keep up the sprints and weights?
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funny you brought this up wodg, bcz i was going to also... my heels are still so dry/ cracked. i haven't been doing anything special to care for them, but i was hoping for improvement there. where i live the summers are too humid and the winters are particularly dry.. winter weather shows in my skin. so, anyone have the remedy for dry heels?
i kept up with weights. although i feel stronger and increase weight when i can, i don't think it shows which is fine cuz i'm a girl, but geeeeez it's so hard to gain muscle! kd is inspiring me, i think i may try a crossfit gym here.
as for sprints, probably not so well. i like longer distance too much so once i start some workout or whatever i don't want to stop.. i just keep going.. i think i'm addicted to the high!, otherwise wtf! maybe that's why i can't gain muscle, lol. i think my body is boring, i want some muscle tone :) what is really driving me crazy at the moment is that i love love love to swim, but i'm trying to stay away from chlorine (i'm allergic to it anyway). so i'm really trying to be a land-athlete, but i don't sprint as well that way if that makes any sense. i really miss swimming!!!!.. ridiculous, but that's what i see myself doing in my mind when i'm stressed at work or something and need to get away.. i want to swim!
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http://www.nelsonsstore.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=&Product_Code=BF01461&Category_Code=RR works great for dry skin
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funny you brought this up wodg, bcz i was going to also... my heels are still so dry/ cracked. i haven't been doing anything special to care for them, but i was hoping for improvement there. where i live the summers are too humid and the winters are particularly dry.. winter weather shows in my skin. so, anyone have the remedy for dry heels?
i kept up with weights. although i feel stronger and increase weight when i can, i don't think it shows which is fine cuz i'm a girl, but geeeeez it's so hard to gain muscle! kd is inspiring me, i think i may try a crossfit gym here.
as for sprints, probably not so well. i like longer distance too much so once i start some workout or whatever i don't want to stop.. i just keep going.. i think i'm addicted to the high!, otherwise wtf! maybe that's why i can't gain muscle, lol. i think my body is boring, i want some muscle tone :) what is really driving me crazy at the moment is that i love love love to swim, but i'm trying to stay away from chlorine (i'm allergic to it anyway). so i'm really trying to be a land-athlete, but i don't sprint as well that way if that makes any sense. i really miss swimming!!!!.. ridiculous, but that's what i see myself doing in my mind when i'm stressed at work or something and need to get away.. i want to swim!
Yeah I was hoping your heels had got better giving me some hope! because it's summer here and very dry and my heels are cracked...
The only time my heels didnt crack when I did a 2 week paddle/surf trip last year, I was bare foot the whole time and in the water all day and walked around in the dirt/rocks/shells my feet were filthy and although a bit of skin built up they never cracked.
I'm enjoying swimming more but I like the feeling I get after more. My mum (raw paloer) has really got into it actually, she started 6 months ago only being able to swim 50 meters now she can swim 1500m non stop. They do open water training but it's on the weekend when I work.
I might try some of the cream SteaknChop, I don't want any oily stuff because it will make my feet black. I've pretty much given up healing them. They have improved alot since going RPD though. Maybe it will take years like other things have or maybe it's a mind thing.
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you're mom is really super! and your brother too, right? will your family eat a raw paleo xmas dinner? :)
i'd swim so fast in open water out fear of sharks! :o
as for dry heels, i'm going to put a huge glob of cream on them and sleep with socks (which i really hate!) and see if i can undo years of damage overnite! :D actually, sleeping with socks, even in winter, is kind of a pet peeve... i'll think about it :P
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.... i really miss swimming!!!!.. ridiculous, but that's what i see myself doing in my mind when i'm stressed at work or something and need to get away.. i want to swim!
Have you searched if there are any pools around you that use salt to sanitize instead of chlorine. There is one like that in my buddy's condo!
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good idea!, i'll look. i'm hopeful, but not expecting much.. it's not very progressive here :(
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i can't believe it, i did find one! there's a sports complex that just opened by a former pro football player. i was told the pool is salt water, i haven't tried it yet though.
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Not such a hick town then!
There's supposedly one where I live that uses bromine which is supposedly safer than chlorine.
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i can't believe it, i did find one! there's a sports complex that just opened by a former pro football player. i was told the pool is salt water, i haven't tried it yet though.
which town is this?
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Not such a hick town then!
There's supposedly one where I live that uses bromine which is supposedly safer than chlorine.
i'm still reserved about using it, the pool area just has a certain smell. hopefully i can visit the ocean sometime soon.
about my heels, i've been putting this thick cream on them before work.. a ton of it!.. and then my socks over it and just let it absorb all day. it's helped so much, though i've got a ways to go.
which town is this?
??? i prefer not to post this information, thanks.
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okay, so i got a bunch of organs (heart, liver, kidney, pancreas, thymus, spleen). i just put them all in my fridge, smelling them all on the way :D liver is not as scary as it was when i first started eating raf. kidney, i don't think i'm gonna like that one :P heart smells so strong, well i guess they all do. i'm going to try to make a mix like my farmer does, but try to make it with the organ/flavor i like if i can figure it out.
organs are easier to eat when i can't see them all ground up with muscle meat, but i'm looking forward to finding out which i like and how they affect me.
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it's the sweetbreads that i love so much! now i understand why the pet food mix was orange instead of deep red when i really liked it. liver is neutral to me. kidney is smokey and very strong.. it's too much. heart is strong to me too, so i'll just use a little bit at a time. spleen seems pretty neutral too, at least by 'smell' test.
brain wasn't an option.. actually, i didn't ask, it just wasn't on the list. tongue.. i wimped out on even buying that one, but maybe next time :P
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brain wasn't an option.. actually, i didn't ask, it just wasn't on the list. tongue.. i wimped out on even buying that one, but maybe next time :P
Brain most likely won't be an option unless you buy the whole head.
Where I am, they are scared of "mad cow". How can a mad cow hurt me if it is dead? lol
Still they will not crack it open, I must do it myself.
Totally worth it. The tongue ( :P ) is delicious too.
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Tongue is the best...ever...very tasty Except when the ox tongue slime makes my spit coagulate err gross. I think I'm the exception tho.
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oh, i'd try brain, but no way i'm bringing home a whole head to crack.. i can hardly crack open a coconut... one of these a caveman is gonna feed me right :D
ok, i'll try tongue next time for sure.
i have to say, though, eating pet food is wwwaaaayyyy easier!... i prefer to eat an undiscernible, slightly flavored ground mix -\
but, brains and tongue are not in the pet food, so i'll still try them one of these days...
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well... maybe just not from ox :D
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oh, i'd try brain, but no way i'm bringing home a whole head to crack.. i can hardly crack open a coconut... one of these a caveman is gonna feed me right :D
ok, i'll try tongue next time for sure.
i have to say, though, eating pet food is wwwaaaayyyy easier!... i prefer to eat an undiscernible, slightly flavored ground mix -\
but, brains and tongue are not in the pet food, so i'll still try them one of these days...
This is not the Ioanna from a couple months ago. Big strides in a short time. Proud of you for building up the courage to try them. :)
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Ioanna,
I've been reading your journal :)
thank you for having one!!
Do you add fat back into your meat (butter, oil, marrow?) or just eat it as is and buy a cut that has a particular % of fat to it? what % of fat is in the meat you buy typically?
So you only eat red meats correct? You said fish does not work for you - in what regard? I have been experimenting and finding that lamb is very satisfying while when i eat fish i get hungry very soon after ???
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This is not the Ioanna from a couple months ago. Big strides in a short time. Proud of you for building up the courage to try them. :)
:D I was able to get a tongue recently and it's been sitting in my freezer waiting for a brave moment. It's just so big!
Ioanna,
I've been reading your journal :)
thank you for having one!!
Do you add fat back into your meat (butter, oil, marrow?) or just eat it as is and buy a cut that has a particular % of fat to it? what % of fat is in the meat you buy typically?
So you only eat red meats correct? You said fish does not work for you - in what regard? I have been experimenting and finding that lamb is very satisfying while when i eat fish i get hungry very soon after ???
thanks, alycia!
i mostly eat red meat, and mostly bison and lamb. i can't remember what i wrote in the beginning, but fish does work for me now. it just goes through me a little faster. so i've been really trying to incorporate more variety these days with red meats, seafood, and organs.
yes, i've noticed that too!!.. red meat is so satisfying so quickly, but when i eat fish sometimes i just feel like i haven't eaten real food yet until i eat something red. no idea why, and i wonder how chicken would feel in that regard.
percent fat that works best for me tends to be around 65-70%. i buy meat in bulk from my farmer. i just get the cheaper cuts (which tend to be fatty) and ground meat, etc. i like marrow and back fat, but i don't use any oils nor dairy (butter). they just don't feel good for me. i don't measure my food, and i don't count my calories. (i'm an extremely analytical person, and once i start measuring i'll drive myself crazy with calculations.) so, i don't add fat for the sake of meeting a percentage, but if i want it that particular day i might eat a lot of it. and i don't eat the same calories every day. lately i've been eating one meal around 4pm. i just eat what i feel like in terms of fat % and amount. re amount - i eat the smallest amount that makes me feel satisfied. some days that's a lot, and some it's a little. then i go work out soon after :)
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percent fat that works best for me tends to be around 65-70%. i buy meat in bulk from my farmer. i just get the cheaper cuts (which tend to be fatty) and ground meat, etc. i like marrow and back fat, but i don't use any oils nor dairy (butter). they just don't feel good for me.
Ioanna - do you know how helpful that is to me ;D
Seriously the little we have chatted has really been a Large help for me to see how i can make this work without having to figure out "okay so how much fat do i need to add to this meat per ounce to get what i need ect..."
Just buy fatty meat that may disclose the % of fat in the serving sizes :D
Why do you find that high of a % of fat helpful over more protein?
Based on what i have read it usually is to prevent constipation from a high meat diet? Does it also help you digest meat better having a higher fat?
lately i've been eating one meal around 4pm.
What advantage do you find in only 1 meal a day?
I juice currently and have 2 meals a day only one being meat one being fruit or veg. I also have ben adding easy to digest veg. (onion, tomato, cucumber, zucchini) to my meat meal. Yet this may be leading to all the gas i have been getting, maybe combo is not so good and should just eat meat alone?
I still am not sure how i would do with only meat? I'm afraid i would eat a lot of meat to fill my tummy (which is not overweight by the way but i can eat!) then get sick from only having a lot of meat sitting in my stomach. Did you ever experience that in the beginning with the only meat meals?
Thank you for sharing :) :) :)
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Why do you find that high of a % of fat helpful over more protein?
hmmmm, because in the way beginning (after reading av, but before finding this forum) i would eat the lean meat and dip the pieces into egg yolk. i guess wanting fat with my meat was intuitive, and the amounts of each would be about the same. so, i looked up on fitday to say what i was eating, and that was the approx percentage. though i do not eat egg yolks as much anymore (i'd love to!, but they go thru me too fast -\) i just substitute the approx same amt fat and that amount still feels best. too much fat and my food goes thru me, too much protein and my energy just isn't right. anymore protein and i'd feel like i overate, yet still hungry for something.
Based on what i have read it usually is to prevent constipation from a high meat diet?
i have to laugh.. while probably true for most, i would welcome anything constipating :D
Does it also help you digest meat better having a higher fat?
my digestion is great whether i eat just lean looking meat or a 'regular' fat day or a high-fat day, so i'm not sure the fat is necessarily helping, though i know if i eat too much fat on a given day that my digestion will be not-so-good. this probably relates to your constipation question, but i'm soooo not constipated that i don't feel i need fat for that. it's about feeling satisfied and energized for me.
What advantage do you find in only 1 meal a day?
it just feels good - during the day i'm not hungry, but my stomach is empty and i like that feeling for getting through the high demands of my day and/or a morning workout. i think digestive energy is underrated. just feels better to eat when i'm not stressed, not thinking about a million other things i have to do.
also it's just so much simpler
the only other eating pattern i really like is two small meals: one in the morning after a workout, the other around 2pm. sometimes i do this on the weekends. i like having the long fasted time before bed.
I'm afraid i would eat a lot of meat to fill my tummy (which is not overweight by the way but i can eat!) then get sick from only having a lot of meat sitting in my stomach. Did you ever experience that in the beginning with the only meat meals?
well, in the beginning i had to overcome initial fears of eating raw meat, lol, so i was making sure to eat enough and definitely not eating too much then. if i eat too much of a great thing, my digestion is off, so learn to listen to my body for that too.
hope this helps! as you continue on, you'll find more of what does(n't) work for you, and even that can change. listen and trust your body over your mind! :D
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Thank you for your response above to my fat questions :)
I had 1/2 pound of organic lamb mixed with grassfed beef last night and feel really sick today -\
But I had a lot of energy after my meal last night. Think it caught up to me today. Yet i can see how that heavy of a food can keep you well off until the next afternoon.
yes, i've noticed that too!!.. red meat is so satisfying so quickly, but when i eat fish sometimes i just feel like i haven't eaten real food yet until i eat something red. no idea why, and i wonder how chicken would feel in that regard.
I just wanted to let you know i have pasture raised organic chicken that i am going to try :o
But i am not brave enough to have it as is - i am going to make it like ceviche. the recipes i have found online say to marinate in lemon juice for 3 days.
I really hope this does not result in the same digestion i had with cooked chicken :P was not good at all.
I will let you know how it goes, but it will be several days before it is ready.
alycia
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i cannot digest cooked chicken either, so i will trust greatly in your raw chicken ceviche experiment :D
gs gave me the idea a while back to rub the chicken with salt to get rid of the 'slimy' texture, then remove the salt. if i were to try chicken raw i'd do it this way.
keep me posted! ;D
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No salt for you at all Ioanna?
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No salt for you at all Ioanna?
oh, well, i don't really have a strong opinion about salt use. i just don't really have a taste for it. i used a lot initially to help adjust to raw meat, but don't really bother with it anymore.
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I know this has been discussed before, but looking for suggestions to increase vitamin D. Annual blood work shows that mine is quite low. I've been indoors since November, but I was hoping diet would help in this regard. Should I just wait for the sun to come out since that should be (literally) tomorrow?, or should I do something more?
Thanks, all!
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I feel best when I spend a lot of time in the sun. I think 20 minutes or an hour is just not enough some times of the year. In early spring I would go for 3 to 4 hours.
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i'd have to build up to the 3-4 hours. I'm capable of getting dark, but in the beginning I'm capable of getting really red! I'm so pale right now :( I don't think I've ever had blood tests at the end of summer. Maybe I'll just see what some sunshine can do.
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i'd have to build up to the 3-4 hours. I'm capable of getting dark, but in the beginning I'm capable of getting really red! I'm so pale right now :( I don't think I've ever had blood tests at the end of summer. Maybe I'll just see what some sunshine can do.
I'm the same way.
Spent almost the entire weekend outside last week. We had an Easter egg hunt for all of my nieces and nephews on Saturday then spent the day gardening on Sunday. Got nice and red from it but it changed into a light tan very quickly (2-3 days) and my tolerance is up now. A couple more weekends like that and I will actually have a tan. You might have the same experience.
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my first taste of raw chicken! i sorta feel the way i did when i took my first ever bite of raw meat... waiting for something to happen, but not feeling anything impending :D i ate two drumsticks that i put in the dehydrator for about 30min to dry out the outside a little. it tasted so good!!!
the chicken came from my favorite farm out here, so i trust it. and this may be a good experiment as i know that cooked chicken will make me VERY ill. the only thing is that the cooked chicken on one occasion has come from a farm, another is 'organic' from wf.
i've also been eating raw honey. i have no idea what encourages me to experiment sometimes because some brands of honey (not raw) have made me quite sick in the past. but the raw honey i have now i think is even helping me digest, tho i have no proof to say for sure, it's just how i feel.
wo carbs i have energy, but need to drink tons of water. of course i don't like this because there's too much water in my belly when i'm trying to workout, and then i'm up all night going to the bathroom. this makes me think that despite being zc for so long, i was never really fat adapted? idk. but, probably i've been eating a few tablespoons (started with 1/2 teaspoon and built up just incase my body didn't like it), and i can work out with what i consider to be a more normal water intake. so, i think i feel better with the carbs.
i also have this idea that eating some carbs is going to be good for building my good kind of carb (plant) digesting gut flora which seems to be the reason i couldn't digest anything in the first place.
i had tests done and i don't digest much of the fat i eat. consequently my vitamin counts are extremely low, also confirmed by blood test. i don't feel like this is something i need to change (supplements) right away because i feel fine, but something to work toward. any ideas for better fat digestion?
the sun is out, the days are long, and i'm so happy! :D
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Did you ever get to try some lamb fat? to see if it digested better.
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i also have this idea that eating some carbs is going to be good for building my good kind of carb (plant) digesting gut flora which seems to be the reason i couldn't digest anything in the first place.
You could focus on plants which contain significant amounts of fructooligosaccharide, fiber which is known to feed the good gut bacteria, i.e. it's prebiotic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructooligosaccharide#Food_sources
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...i don't digest much of the fat i eat. consequently my vitamin counts are extremely low....
Which vitamins? Do you mean the fat soluble vitamins? Ironically, Don Matesz has been arguing recently that fats are poor sources of vitamins, so I suppose that from his perspective poor digestion of fats wouldn't lead to much in the way of vitamin deficiencies, but I know that animal fats are supposed to help with absorption of fat-soluble vitamins.
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I'm not really sure precisely how his approach has shifted. He eats a lot of cooked food, but I do trust his sincerity.
Next weekend I hope to discuss this with him. Perhaps I will be able to expound on his view from my raw perspective.
I couldn't resist the pun ;D
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Did you ever get to try some lamb fat? to see if it digested better.
hi sabertooth, thanks for asking!.. i finally did, and just tried some today. i was thinking of you when i ate because (minus the coconut butter) it was a very sabertoothesque looking meal :D
You could focus on plants which contain significant amounts of fructooligosaccharide, fiber which is known to feed the good gut bacteria, i.e. it's prebiotic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructooligosaccharide#Food_sources
thanks p0wer! i did try these in the past, but none of these food were good for me. maybe i'll try again.. soon-ish.. :D
Which vitamins? Do you mean the fat soluble vitamins? Ironically, Don Matesz has been arguing recently that fats are poor sources of vitamins, so I suppose that from his perspective poor digestion of fats wouldn't lead to much in the way of vitamin deficiencies, but I know that animal fats are supposed to help with absorption of fat-soluble vitamins.
hmmmmm, my vitamin d was super low, everything else was low, but in normal range. my doctor (he's mostly cool 8) ) suggested that if my fat digestion were better that my vitamin levels would improve. so instead of supplementing, i wanted to work on the fat part. then again, when i had the tests done i had been indoors for about the fourth consecutive month :( i'm sure that has a lot to do with it. i was hoping that my diet would make up for the lack of sun thru winter months, i guess this was not good thinking. -\
I'm not really sure precisely how his approach has shifted. He eats a lot of cooked food, but I do trust his sincerity.
Next weekend I hope to discuss this with him. Perhaps I will be able to expound on his view from my raw perspective.
I couldn't resist the pun ;D
report back! what does he say about plant fats?.. they can store micro-nutrients, but not animal fats?
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report back! what does he say about plant fats?.. they can store micro-nutrients, but not animal fats?
Will do. I'm equally, if not more, curious. I view them as some of the most wise elders I have around. Each time we meet I learn more. To see them take this position is thought provoking to say the least.
You are talking about omega 6 ratios? I certainly want to know their view on that.
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report back! what does he say about plant fats?.. they can store micro-nutrients, but not animal fats?
He seems to think that saturated fats are a problem, at least the animal versions like butter, so he may be more positive about monounsaturated fats, though I'm not certain. He now favors a low-fat, high-carb macronutrient ratio (with apparent emphasis on cooked tubers and rice), whereas in the past he supported a low carb emphasis. He apparently encountered problems on the low carb approach after some time on it and found he did better on a low-fat, high-carb approach, so I agree that he is sincere and never doubted that. I asked whether roots and tubers that are edible raw might be better than cooked tubers, but he didn't agree and instead argued in favor of cooking, IIRC.
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Here's our new health care provision: We must participate in a health screen sponsored by the insurance company and then call a health coach to discuss the results, OR pay $30 extra per month. Argh!!!!
So the health screen is a quick thing; they measure height, weight, waist, then calculate BMI. Then total cholesterol, HDL, and glucose.
Here's the last one I did in January 2010:
we had this health risk assessment at work today. it's voluntary, but the incentive to do it is monetary, so I got one done... i have nothing to compare these numbers to, and i wish i did....
cholesterol: 191
HDL: 78
cholesterol:HDL ratio: 2.5
that's really all they did, plus blood pressure.... i don't remember... it was a quick 10min thing
not sure what any of this really means with nothing to compare, but i'm certain my cholesterol went up a bit, thought it could be HDL?.. anyway, i don't care... this is almost 8 months of RAF.
edit: I forgot one... glucose... was a fasting level for me... the test was done around 830am and I had last eaten around 7/730pm the night before... 91.
and now June 21st 2011:
Cholesterol: 155
HDL: 58
fasting glucose: 82
So, I was freaking out bcz I thought my cholesterol would be super high and then I'd have to listen to a "health coach" lecture me about my cholesterol level, but it's lower... why is it so low? -\
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Anything else changed like your BMI? are you thinner this year?
Your low density lipids? are at higher ratio now which is good right?
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...why is it so low? -\
Half the drop was due to drop in your HDL. Have you been eating less of pastured and wild animal fats?
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yeah, all my bmi numbers are the same so i don't think i'm any thinner.
and, i think i'm eating the same amount of fats... this year i added organ meats and seafood, and they are not very fatty.. that would be the only decrease.
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It's hard to tell from a single reading. You get a better sense from multiple readings and from knowing what the differences in your eating, supplement and sunlight variables were during the intervals between the tests. You could also google HDL and see what raises and lowers it and see if anything jumps out at you.
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I know this has been discussed before, but looking for suggestions to increase vitamin D. Annual blood work shows that mine is quite low. I've been indoors since November, but I was hoping diet would help in this regard. Should I just wait for the sun to come out since that should be (literally) tomorrow?, or should I do something more?
Thanks, all!
so it's end of summer, and i had vit d tested again... it's higher, but still too low. my doctor gave me a prescription level vit d supplement to take for 8 weeks, then i'm supposed to get tested again.
thoughts or advice??
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so it's end of summer, and i had vit d tested again... it's higher, but still too low. my doctor gave me a prescription level vit d supplement to take for 8 weeks, then i'm supposed to get tested again.
thoughts or advice??
Yeah...ignore the prescription supplement, try Now brand vitamin D-3 softgels, 2000 IU. Try about 1 a day for a week, see if you notice any changes in health, mood, etc.. They work really well for me. You do have to have a decent amount of fat in your diet for them to help, though.
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Take enough sunbaths…! Avoid all synthetic vitamins. In natural foods, vitamins are embedded in extremely various complex organic structures, while the synthetic ones are chemically pure (eg refined sugar) and can be toxic in the long term even if they sometimes provide a temporary boost or well-being.
By the way, I’ve been thinking for a long time that I should once denounce this idea commonly expressed here : "experiment and see what works for you." Because it’s impossible to notice the long-term harmful effects of a stuff and certain foods such as coffee, beer or even some drugs can cause a short-term sensation of well-being while being particularly noxious in the long-term.
François
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Take enough sunbaths…!
that's what i did all summer, though. now summer is about over, now what.
Yeah...ignore the prescription supplement, try Now brand vitamin D-3 softgels, 2000 IU. Try about 1 a day for a week, see if you notice any changes in health, mood, etc.. They work really well for me. You do have to have a decent amount of fat in your diet for them to help, though.
thanks, i'll look for those. but both are synthetic vit d?
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2000 IU is a rather low dose. The Px dose would likely be much more than that.
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so it's end of summer, and i had vit d tested again... it's higher, but still too low. my doctor gave me a prescription level vit d supplement to take for 8 weeks, then i'm supposed to get tested again.
thoughts or advice??
It's still summer, right? Just go out under the sun more often.
I bet he makes a nice cut from those supplements.
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Herring are high in vitamin D, BTW, though I rarely see fresh herring for sale and the canned, jarred and packaged versions tend to be high-heated and have junk in them, though you could wash off the junk. I am able to get fresh raw sardines at my market when in season. Unfortunately, they are gutted, so I can't get the vitamin-D-rich livers.
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a good reason to take more vacations! :D
i am out much of the day at the lake with my dog when i don't have work (weekend) and i'm out morning afternoon and evening for about an hour each on workdays. apparently that is not enough.
I bet he makes a nice cut from those supplements.
no, they're very cheap.
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Surprised noones mentioned blue ice cod liver oil.
http://www.greenpasture.org/public/Products/CodLiverOil/index.cfm
That got me through the winter.
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that's what i did all summer, though. now summer is about over, now what.
thanks, i'll look for those. but both are synthetic vit d?
AFAIK, both are created from exposing sheep lanolin to ultraviolet light.
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a quick hello and i hope everyone is doing well!!!
i have been away due to a family emergency, but feeling a bit better now.
i have never been a fan of dairy, but the last month or so i've been doing very well with butter and ghee. i tried it once as an indulgence, but i felt like it did a good thing for me and have been eating some since. the only thing is that it has to be unsalted. it feels so healing that i feel like i can eat cookies if i wanted to and be fine. i have no idea why this works for me?? of course i'm not interested in cookies, but if i can a banana, avocado, coconut or nuts on occasion i will be ecstatic :)
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Glad you are back and hope your family situation settled well.
Butter - you are sooooooo lucky it sits well with you because that is some YUMMY stuff!
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I give fermented butter oil and fermented cod liver oil to my 10 year old boy.
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thanks, dorothy!! :)
gs, is fermented butter oil something you buy or make?
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i forgot to add that i started eating liver on it's own. i cut it into tiny pieces, add that to my red meat that is cut into small pieces and maybe add a little butter to that. i've been adding more and more liver... i'm surprised i like it so much. i kinda crave it.
i go back and forth on number of meals, but don't like eating one meal per day. i don't like eating that much at a sitting i guess. i like eating a few or so meals throughout the day. it's just easier to eat once or twice to avoid eating in public. i get full quickly though, and i like just eating a little bit at a time.
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thanks, dorothy!! :)
gs, is fermented butter oil something you buy or make?
Something I buy here.
http://www.greenpasture.org (http://www.greenpasture.org)
I bought for my child who was extremely sick. He is almost well now.
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good to hear. My take after six years reading all kinds of excuses is that true healing is when your system is 'hearty' and not overly sensitive to various natural foods, combinations of foods OR on the other end of the spectrum: extreme sensitivities to things like natural sugars etc... (all when eaten in moderation of course and not regularly - which suggests perhaps unhealthful adaptation)
Often those diets which have problems with this idea are also low in probiotic foods, natural salts, natural fats, vitamins like K, D (hey!) and bitter foods like herbs, and also low in natural strenuous activity that helps create what the alt-folks call 'digestive fire'
I have a gut feeling youre already on that road to eating those other natural foods.
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good to hear. My take after six years reading all kinds of excuses is that true healing is when your system is 'hearty' and not overly sensitive to various natural foods, combinations of foods OR on the other end of the spectrum: extreme sensitivities to things like natural sugars etc... (all when eaten in moderation of course and not regularly - which suggests perhaps unhealthful adaptation)
Often those diets which have problems with this idea are also low in probiotic foods, natural salts, natural fats, vitamins like K, D (hey!) and bitter foods like herbs, and also low in natural strenuous activity that helps create what the alt-folks call 'digestive fire'
100% agree. Very, very well put. I'm not quite as anti-carb as you are, but your comments about having a "hearty" digestion are excellent. I think you're extremely right about probiotics, fats, salts, fat-soluble vitamins, and regular exercise being very important for digestion fire. People with 'sensitive' digestions after years of raw food diets are most likely starved in one or more of those.
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I've had a number of unfortunate rants but I don't see them as anti-carb. more "anti" the idea that eating -whatever- natural raw foods -those that were around only 200,000 (or is it now 500 k or a mil? :o ) -necessarily promotes good health and everything else as some kind of agent of death.
I am sold on the 'moderated' carbs thing as a tool for making a higher fat diet more workable which in-turn I see as 'more healing' I suppose - at least in short term, but open to any actual science or experience rebutting that. If people are doing well *measurably* while focusing on protein and carbs it matters less of course from that perspective how many more carbs I guess. I've said that, but does seem to create even more issues often. In nature there are problems with too many sugars even in species arguably designed to eat sugars, and in humans - examples to contrast and compare as well. Many more problems of course are due to people not being in a great place to eat in the ways recommended, due to internal physical problems, but they also seem to exist in nature before modern foods/problems, and not fundamentally needed in nature either.
I think often what people are talking about is coming from a place of what at best would be a maintenance diet. The idea that humans at one point thrived on natural carbs sources -if this was what the data showed- wouldn't be particularly upsetting to me. This is particularly true if people are eating the way known HG's actually eat and not substituting a bunch of assumptions about which SHOULD BE better but often for many reasons -isn't. For some reasons, the idea that one has to do certain extra things to improve their health often is too disturbing or abrasive to their current idea of healthy living. This seems true even if often this is just matching other ways people have eaten in nature successfully or have real evidence of having the quickest or more effective modes in the current world, so go figure.
I don't happen to think fruits are better carb sources per-se than alot of other foods commonly eaten by HGs that are not sweet, raw, or 'paleo' and that fruits never made up the majority of any hominid that-was-also-human's regular diet, but I don't think that is anti-carbs either. I eat carbs quite regularly. Usually not a whole lot, but periodically as much as I care for, which still isn't alot. As i just mentioned, I see being able to eat carbs without symptoms(which happened more so after a process of eating very little) not as an adaptation to poison that is for sure. :)
ok back to Ioanna :)
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Glad to hear you're doing so well Ioanna. It definitely sounds like you're improving in leaps and bounds. Go you. :D
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thanks, dorothy!! :)
Isn't Dorothy great, BTW?
I've had a number of unfortunate rants ...
Hee, hee, and we love you nonetheless, KD! And I love how you honestly and earnestly try to help people, even when they misunderstand and snipe at you in return. And don't worry, I've had plenty of rants too.
Sure, you and I could learn to write more succintly, but I love how you put so much effort and thoughtfulness into your posts. And anyone who likes Ionna is OK in my book. :)
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i've missed you guys :D
2+ years has not felt like leaps and bounds, but now i cannot believe where i am. i ate almonds yesterday and did just fine. that's huge for me! i'm so invincible again :D
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Isn't Dorothy great, BTW?
Hee, hee, and we love you nonetheless, KD! And I love how you honestly and earnestly try to help people, even when they misunderstand and snipe at you in return. And don't worry, I've had plenty of rants too.
Sure, you and I could learn to write more succintly, but I love how you put so much effort and thoughtfulness into your posts. And anyone who likes Ionna is OK in my book. :)
heh, thanks.
I figured with my usual humor or the ass-slapping workout thread banter I could get away with more thorough nerdyness and articulation of how I really feel on alot of this stuff without coming across as out-there, but alas I agree I am not the most clear writer. Alot of time i'm trying to compose things at work in between customers and sometimes I just up and hit 'post' and then frantically try to moved things around while doing other things. I'm luckily more coherent in person, but I have noticed I talk in the -stuff [(stuff) stuff] - type of brackets as well. :/
I'd also like to think I must just have a wider screen than most folks...ok ok, I could use a good editor. It seems like some of these points of discussion are so broad its hard not to try to cover all ones bases and then come up with something perhaps way less concise than one expected. The above should probably be moved to the 'lifestyles' thread/journal with a quote from ck...if that is possible.
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KD, unfortunately I failed at communicating it to you early on, and I know I am a terrible communicator, but I hope I can manage OK now, that I never meant to come across as harshly critical of you, and I would take one person with real heart and soul like you or Ioanna or Dorothy over a thousand heartless articulate geniuses any day (no offense intended to anyone at this forum)--and I'm not saying you're not smart; quite the contrary--I just value heart (or liver, in traditional terms) more. Folks like you, Ioanna and Dorothy add spice and joy to life. I can't thank you beautiful people enough. I hope you don't mind the excessive sentimentality.
The best compliment I can give anyone is to call them Real People, of which you are one. If others can't see the goodness of your soul through the fog of wordiness, then the hell with them (though I wouldn't really wish hell on anyone, LOL).
Bless up, one love, mi bredda, and I only say that to people I really like. :D Your attempts to forthrightly and earnestly help others have not gone unnoticed.
Heh, heh, and I actually like your wordiness, as it makes me look a little less wordy; I like to think. LOL
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Phil - the more sentimental you get the more I love you!
KD - I said it before and I'll say it again - how you express yourself makes me feel like I'm home. I love reading what you write. I've learned so very much from you!
I can't believe you do that at work! You're amazing.
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Thanks Dorothy. To you all...
May love and laughter light your days,
and warm your heart and home.
May good and faithful friends be yours,
wherever you may roam.
May peace and plenty bless your world
with joy that long endures.
May all life's passing seasons
bring the best to you and yours!
--An Irish Blessing
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I'm going to add to the pile. You guys all add a ton to the forum, and by way of that my continuing good health, and I thank you all for your kind words, inspiration, and especially everyone's good senses of humor. You make
my our time online brighter. :D
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i've missed you guys! i've moved to a new city, so i'm a little slow getting myself organized and my life back on track. it will take me some time to get caught up, but hope everyone is doing well and enjoying the summer! ;)