Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Off Topic => Topic started by: Ioanna on September 21, 2009, 04:09:12 am
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How do you do it?? Or maybe you'r just one of those people who doesn't care what others think... I wish I could be like that, but I'm not :(
In my social circle of friends I've found a way to make things work because I usually meet them later in the evening at which point it is sensical not to be hungry, and no one pressures me. I try to be with a group too... girls (even when in a group of girls) cannot accept someone at the table not eating with them while my guy friends could care less if they're eating and I'm not.
And dating?!? So I went out with someone once and he *thinks* he likes me, lol. I've not told anyone I eat this way yet, and I like my secret ;) Do I tell him??? Do I just keep dodging eating times... how long can that last? What do you do? If you've already had a significant other when you started eating this way, what did (s)he think?
Thanks!
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I've been the odd one out when we dine out due to my food allergies for years now so it's not been to hard to adapt.
When I first had to start due to the food allergies I felt a bit self-concious asking to hold the sides, etc. but I steeled myself that it was for my health and got over it. I even got to the point where I'd bring Tupperware into a restaurant and eat my food from it if they didn't sell anything I could eat and friends or family would be dining there. It's a bit harder now that it's raw meat but it's still for my health so I'll get over it. :)
As for my wife's thoughts; she was scared to death I'd get sick from food poisoning, etc. She had faith in me though and is getting better about it (still freaks her out if I'm eating a raw organ though ;D). I think it comes down to if their belief in you or the proof you can show them on raw foods can override society's views which are ingrained.
And dating?!? So I went out with someone once and he *thinks* he likes me, lol. I've not told anyone I eat this way yet, and I like my secret ;) Do I tell him??? Do I just keep dodging eating times... how long can that last?
If he's got a brain then you should be able to show him some of the studies referenced on this site, as well as explain how much it's help you so far, and let him come to his own decisions. I've had conversations with a number of people about it and even though some do ostensibly object they are usually swayed to the benefits even if "it sounds like a good way to eat but not for me".
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I was thinking about this today. I went out with my brothers, one whos a little older and one whos alot alot older (and his friend). I ended up compremising by ordering the roast beef, but with a double helping of the beef. I also asked for it to be rare.
When i ordered i actually created a little (yet all in good humour) scene by saying I didnt want any veg, yorkshire pudding, or potatoes, and just wanted meat. The waitress and my bro were kinda messing with me about how I wanted to bulk up on protein and said something about how I could always buy some protein powder at the shops and have that! Hahaha >:
:)
Anyway, so i end up getting the usual plate (with extra beef) so the others can eat my veg etc. Of course by this point (while we wait) they all look at me as to say 'errrr explain!?'. "Well you know when i got ill travelling....bla bla bla....Took and interest in my health....yada yada yada......history of human diet...."
I loose my bros friend my this point, and the younger of the 2 brothers has already heard it all before. So i explain, and surprising my brother is actually remarkably interested. Well i thought, hmm, didnt see that coming.
Anyway i guess the point is its not always as ackward as you expect. Sure when i was ordering it was little 'spotlightish', and things would have been even weirder if i was trying to order a raw steak, but once I explained more than just, "I like raw meat" (and give them a slightly odd look) everything makes more sense and people understand.
So there we go. Oh, and also, since I started getting my energy/groundedness back (which ill have to do a thread on) I was so much more confident I really didnt feel that uncomfortable being in the spotlight. Which felt great - and which i owe TO this lifestyle.
But this is just an account of one day - I cant help but feel this subject is quite large, as the majority of our society are carb/cooking addicts, and a big part of socializing is through that medium (or rather AS carby/cooked people). I am finding myself becoming more and more balanced, yet that sometimes mean I am less attracted to societies norms, like things that are unrelated to food (yet maybe related) for example....possessions.
People care soo much about stuff, maybe it is a result of being on a up and down mentality.
We will see.
ps. i know my rambling form of the english language is nearly unreadable, but i no longer really bother with pouring over the details like the obsessive i used to be!I hope you get the gist, and IOANNA keep in touch about this because this is something that really interests me.)
pps. I wonder what my new girlfriend will say! shes back in a day, will let you know.... :)
ppps. Ioanna, one other thing, if you do ever mention it to a bf or friend, ive learnt in life not to make a big deal out of things like this. Like today I didnt really need to explain in detail about why, I could have just been a bit lighter hearted about it. Play with it, and if people see how healthy you are and are genuinely curious they will ask, and you can tell them. But i guess just say what you mean which is i guess something like, "Because it makes me feel good". :) all the best.
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thanks guys! I'll let you know when I actually brave teh truth and what the reaction is. He already asked me what kind of food I like, which was an easy answer... steak! Then he asked what he can cook for me... oohhhhh I wanted to die! A sweet gesture on the wrong person :( How do I answer that? Well I dodged it, but it will come up again...
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But this is just an account of one day - I cant help but feel this subject is quite large, as the majority of our society are carb/cooking addicts, and a big part of socializing is through that medium (or rather AS carby/cooked people). I am finding myself becoming more and more balanced, yet that sometimes mean I am less attracted to societies norms, like things that are unrelated to food (yet maybe related) for example....possessions.
I've noticed a marked drop-off in my interest in material possessions as well since changing how I'm eating and getting regular exercise. It's nice though. ;D
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Maybe try being coy about it, he might find it odd but cute.
"I know your going to think I'm a bit weird but.....I once tried this raw meat/fruit diet. It made me feel really great, so I actually ended up sticking to it, and actually found the meat and fat was really great for me! Just think steaks, but extra blue :). After all the inuits do it, and so did man for thousands of years........Do you think thats weird?
He might be really curious, and if he sees how healthy you are and think its quite interesting.... Charm him Ioanna!
Anyway the point is is that there are a billion guys out there, many of which you will have chemistry with. You may as well not be shy and start playing with it to see peoples reactions, You'll never learn if you dont experiment huh?
Ultimately you will learn how to use it as a strength, but only if you give yourself a chance.
Come one girlie, you remember how great it feels to face your fears. :)
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thanks guys! I'll let you know when I actually brave teh truth and what the reaction is. He already asked me what kind of food I like, which was an easy answer... steak! Then he asked what he can cook for me....
Some people will criticize you no matter what you do, but I hope there may be something helpful here in my amateur suggestions:
How about, "Steak, as rare as you feel comfortable with." And then you could explain it. I know the suggestion was meant well, but I wouldn't apologize with comments like "I know your going to think I'm a bit weird but....." Be honest, but use self-compliments instead of apologies to show you're self-confident, and you could try to put him at ease with other less self-judgmental statements that show you are sensitive to his feelings like, "This may sound unusual, because it did to me at first, but [insert your reason for trying the diet--such as a friend or doctor recommended it or you were amazed at other peoples' success stories, or impressed by the studies on it, etc.]. I'm adventurous, so I decided to try it." Show you are confident and happy and proud of your wise choices and people will be less likely to criticize or lecture you (though some likely still will).
I also joke about it. I'm not sure if it convinces people I'm less strange or more, but people do laugh instead of scowl. I also making a point of eating a little bit of food in front of others that they know I consider unhealthy, but can handle without getting severe negative reactions. This seems to put them more at ease about possible assumptions that this is just some strange obsession on my part. In this faddish and obsessive society, including many strange diet fads, many people assume that those on unusual diets are the foolish victims of some bizarre fad or are obsessive. So demonstrating intelligence, rationality, confidence, calmness, happiness and willingness to occasionally break from the diet seem to assure people you're reasonably OK. When I'm offered food I don't want to eat I say "No, thanks," and smile.
I'm guessing that men will be more OK with a raw-meat-eating gal than ladies tend to be with raw-meat-eating men. After all, "men constitute only one-third of adults who consider themselves vegetarians." (Michael Downey, "Real Men Go Vegetarian," http://www.creationsmagazine.com/articles/C114/Downey.html). Some men might even be turned on by it. I like the idea of a cave-gal myself. :)
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I'm 40 years old so there's no peer pressure.
I can share that with a business client meeting in a posh country club I made specific orders to the waiter to sear my steak... bloody bloody bloody rare... write that down mr. waiter.
And I continued with my lunch meeting.
In other occasions like parties I just choose raw organic fruits. When forced to look social I take dainty bites of cooked meat.
Last night we had a home party for my son so I had raw tuna sashimi and some watermelon.
Throughout the day since I we live next door to my in laws, I'd have my regular stuff and they don't mind they're used to it. They see me gain outstandingly better health and youth so there must be something good about it.
Yesterday we were watching the boxing match of Mayweather and I was eating my raw beef ribs with my wife's cousin, he didn't mind... I said, hey, Marquez drinks his own pee...
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LOL to GoodSamaritan
I like Daves...I've used that direction before
An empty fridge with only a steak sitting there may give him a clue...
or ease him into it saying I've got this gut problem (which is true) and meat is the only thing I can digest or I get bloating/gas etc..very romantic...maybe leave out the bloating/gas bit.
My lines
'I'm allergic to pretty much everything but meat'
'Don't eat cabs' what do you eat then? 'pretty much just meat'
Don't you get sick? 'Nah, never'
What about fruit 'Nah, it's bad for me'
I heard you just eat meat ' yeah, tried heaps of diets to cure my gut problem and found meat was the only thing I could eat.'
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Another one is "I don't do well on ____" and/or "I do best on (raw) meats."
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PP is right, confidence is everything. If you show hesitation, people will be more uncomfortable about it than if you're forthright about it. Don't "advertise" the diet though - preaching virtually never works(not even on terminally-ill people, judging from my own experience). So make it seem like it's not too big a deal, just that if you were to switch to a crappy cooked diet, you would start having health problems.
As regards female RVAFers, I've heard claims from female RVAFers that the non-RVAFeating men actually liked the idea(I think, partly because raw animal food is often seen as an aphrodisiac (eg:- raw oysters/raw sea-urchin ovaries/raw puffer fish(fugu)).
Oh, and occasionally share a piece of dodgy foods with your partner(the least worst the better). That shows that you're not too fanatical re diet all the time.
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Like GS, I'm also in my 40s. Not feeling much peer pressure (hahaha!). I make no secret of the fact that I eat raw foods (veggies, fruits, & meats), though it rarely comes up because I also feel little reason to advertise. That said, I'm trying to remember if it ever was an issue (I've eaten raw meat for 2 decades or more).
Do you eat only RED meats, or do you also eat fish?
Perhaps you could go out to eat at a sushi place (sashimi).
Perhaps you can go to a French restaurant (steak tartar) or a real Italian place (carpaccio).
Or just go anywhere and have the waiter, as GS said, bring you an EXTREMELY RARE steak. Always works for me.
He'll probably notice soon enough, but when people have a WORD they can place on it (sashimi, carpaccio, tartar, gravlox, gored gored/kitfo, lox, sushi, etc.) or a CULTURAL EXAMPLE (Rocky or real athletes downing shakes with raw eggs), they tend to see it simply as a unusual choice rather than something bizarre.
Also, do you eat meat ONLY or do you also eat salads and such?
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thanks for bringin this up Ionna, i'm in the same boat as you. I'm starting uni soon, and will be meeting loads of new people and making new friends. The issue is gonna come up sooner or later,..although i will def compromise and eat some (rare) cooked meat especially as i have to go to like 10 dinners in the first 2 weeks :(
And with current friends I tried the whole eating at home and coming to friends house/party late and not eat anything...i did that twice with a certain friend, 1st a games night at her house (skipped the dinner at restaurant) then her party...only food available was ice-cream, cheesecake, pizza, so i didnt eat any. And guess what...she called me out on it! in front of people laaaate at night when we were all (bout 7 of us) sitting on her trampoline in the dark (dont ask)...she was like "why didn;t u eat anything", then she brought up the fact i lost some weight (which was the previous year and i'd put it all back on!!!)...oh god it was soooo embarassing, she mustve thought i had some kind of eating disorder or something!! But on the way out, I just told her I have lots of allergies and didn't want to make a fuss over it so i just didnt eat...
I'll let u know how it goes at uni (I start on oct 3rd)...I guess my approach would be easing people into it by saying I eat mostly meat/low carb etc, and follow a paleo approach to eating because I'm a health nut and based on what I've learnt this is a very healthy way of eating, and it makes me feel good, etc etc.
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...she called me out on it! in front of people laaaate at night when we were all (bout 7 of us) sitting on her trampoline in the dark (dont ask)...she was like "why didn;t u eat anything", then she brought up the fact i lost some weight (which was the previous year and i'd put it all back on!!!)...oh god it was soooo embarassing, she mustve thought i had some kind of eating disorder or something!! But on the way out, I just told her I have lots of allergies and didn't want to make a fuss over it so i just didnt eat...
Yeah, that's why I don't take the "don't eat at social occasions" advice. I'm too thin for it, so people would think I was anorexic or something. I try to always eat more than anyone else (and I don't have to try hard, because I normally do so anyways :) ), otherwise they scold me for being too thin, as though they were my mother or something, and it detracts from otherwise pleasant times. America is such an obese nation (2nd most obese on earth after Samoa, by the last report I saw) that anyone who is really thin is suspected of anorexia, or in recent years, orthorexia. Despite the fact that I was born thin and have been thin most of my life and both my parents and all my grandparents were thin in their youths (a couple got bloated stomachs in later years, as did I before Paleo). If I lived with the San bushmen I'd fit right in, but I live in the good 'ol USA, so I tend to eat big portions of the least bad foods available and sometimes bring my own foods. I don't react much to cooked meats, so it often means eating stuff like rare steaks. I also have a hearty appetite, so putting food in front of me and expecting me to not eat is like throwing a steak in front of a wolf and expecting him to not engulf it. :) If I do react I eat some raw meat and grassfed suet and that speeds my recovery.
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When anyone new asks about my raw steak (we get alot of visitors where i work), I tell them that it'll grow hair on your chest. They usually laugh, and I'll tell them, 'well you know how they tell you it's good to eat raw fruits and vegetables?' Of course they say yes, and I ask them why that is, and of course you get some standard answers. I tell them, 'so it's the exact same thing with meat.'
Next question: arent you afraid of bacteria, and I just tell them I've been doing it for 2 years now, and I'm doing just fine. If there's any more interest, they will persue, if not, I leave it at that.
Restaurants are easy. Raw fish, rare steak. Just tell them you want it about 15-30 secs on each side. And tell them 3 times just how rare you're talking. Otherwise they get it wrong. Also, you can hand them a $5 and say 'give this to the cook, and please tell him just how rare I would like my steak.'
I think most guys will be okay with it. Some are girlie men with no stomach, and will be grossed out like a school girl. You don't want to be with him anyways. But hell, some of it may rev their gears a little. ;)
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When anyone new asks about my raw steak (we get alot of visitors where i work), I tell them that it'll grow hair on your chest. They usually laugh,
LOL! My mother used the hair on the chest bit to get me to eat lumpy oatmeal. Ironically, while I ate oatmeal and other grains I didn't grow hair on my chest, but quickly grew a lot of chest hairs at age 45 when I switched to a nearly carnivorous diet that included raw meats. So your advice appears to be literally true! :)
and I'll tell them, 'well you know how they tell you it's good to eat raw fruits and vegetables?' Of course they say yes, and I ask them why that is, and of course you get some standard answers. I tell them, 'so it's the exact same thing with meat.'
Good idea.
... But hell, some of it may rev their gears a little. ;)
Yeah, one only has to read the admonishments against sex and eating meats by famous vegetarians and near-vegetarians like Mahatma Gandhi, Drs. Kellogg and Graham and others to know that meats (especially wild and raw) stimulate the sex hormones and sex drive. Now that sex is seen as a GOOD thing, vegetarians don't talk as much about the diminishing effects on the sex drive of vegetarian diets.
“(John Harvey Kellogg) appears to have followed his own advice, since, although he and his wife were married for over 40 years, they likely never had sexual intercourse and maintained separate bedrooms throughout.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg
“...free use of flesh (increases) the concupiscent excitability and sensibility of the genital organs..." -- Sylvester Graham
"Yeah, baby!" --Austin Powers
I find the idea of a raw-meat eating lady to be enticing myself. :)
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I think most guys will be okay with it. Some are girlie men with no stomach, and will be grossed out like a school girl.
Hahahaha!!!!!!!
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I make it the smallest deal possible. I used to try and advertise, big mistake. In fact I don't really like talking about it anymore, sometimes friends introduce me and their friends want to hear about it, I always play it down. One time at a party I drank a glass of blood (well, lymph fluid mostly) and someone took a cell phone video. Another time I was hungry and started chomping into my raw meat and some guy said "wait a second, this is kind of epic!" In other words, I've only gotten positive (albeit kind of freakshowish) responses. If I looked unhealthy people would probably not respond as well, but I'm young with clear skin and a trim physique, what are they going to say? Some fat guy or someone with bad skin is going to stand there and tell me my diet choices are unhealthy? I just present it as the way it is and people respect it.
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thanks all, it's given me confidence to hear all your responses. I'm not trying to preach or advertise... I'm trying to hide!! which is what makes getting involved in a relationship difficult. And it's true, if he can't handle it that would be ridiculous! Though what about the reverse, what if I don't like the way he eats, lol? I don't allow use of the microwave in my house, lol, that's got to be a huge turn-off :)
Raz... you reminded me of a social event with all my close and not-so-close friends celebrating some event (I don't remember) that we had a cookout at my friend's house... hot dogs, hamburgers, chips, soda, and beer was all. I didn't make an announcement or anything I just didn't eat (it was late evening anyway), and was already well known that I didn't drink. In front of everybody, one of my good friends at the time accused me of being anorexic. Oh please! At the time I was in the peak of my athletics, I hardly looked anorexic!... I responded that I didn't think avoiding chips, soda, and beer made me anorexic and everyone just laughed. I couldn't believe she would do that to me though!
well this guy is so nice, but it's only been two weeks and he is sssmmmmoottthhheeerrriiinnggg me :(
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If I understand what smothering means... it means that new nice guy thinks that wooing a girl in real life is like what they do in the movies and on television.
But in real life, that's not the case, men need to be suave and playboy like to get the girl(s).
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I don't know, I really like how sincere and sweet he is, but he wants to spend so much time together and talk every night ... isn't that a lot when we just met?? or maybe I'm hiding too much (namely diet) to desire getting so close yet... still it's too fast for me. And everytime we talk he probes me for what I ate for breakfast, lunch, dinner that day trying to get an idea of what he can cook for me. I'm not even strong enough to say I didn't eat breakfast or lunch because I'm only eating once a day right now... I'm such a wuss!
I really can't wait to tell all of you how it goes when I eat my first raw steak in front of him, lol!
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He obviously likes you, but his approach is idiotic / pathetic. (TV like, Movie Like, real world women find that approach too clingy, to possessive, too obsessive, too scary)
Nice guys finish LAST.
That boy has not been trained by a real man.
This is how it's done.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51xT9fKEaHL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg)
Maybe it's not too late, have someone gift him a copy of this book so he knows how real flesh and blood women want to be approached.
http://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Method-Beautiful-Women-Into/dp/0312360118/ref=pd_bxgy_d_img_b
I keep a copy of this book at home so when my boys grow up I can read this with them as a reference. And with my own experience I agree with most of what the author says.
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I don't know, I really like how sincere and sweet he is, but he wants to spend so much time together and talk every night ... isn't that a lot when we just met?? or maybe I'm hiding too much (namely diet) to desire getting so close yet... still it's too fast for me. And everytime we talk he probes me for what I ate for breakfast, lunch, dinner that day trying to get an idea of what he can cook for me. I'm not even strong enough to say I didn't eat breakfast or lunch because I'm only eating once a day right now... I'm such a wuss!
Well, er I'm hardly an expert but it's a human characteristic re psychology that making oneself less available to others makes them see you as having higher value. In other words, the more you try to avoid him(due to the raw food issue?) the more he may want to be with you. Perhaps your tactic is wrong and you should smother him in turn! Then again he might disappear completely as a result.
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Treat m mean keep them keen!
When I was younger I was hanging with this girl I thought was OK and for some reason I told her a massive bullshit story about how I broke the the neck on my guitar, anyway it was a complete lie it was BS! About an hour later a mate came up to me and asked about the guitar and exposed my bullshite story haha...she jumped me after that! I thought wow this is how you do it!
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Ioanna, instead of responding with pm I'm perfectly comfortable talking about my relationship in this thread here. Maybe others will find it helpful.
Basically a friend of mine from high school hooked us up. She moved into his apartment when someone else moved out, they are friends from college. He told her all kinds of stuff about me, including the raw meat diet. She wasn't too interested, I don't think she likes being "set up," but when we finally met we hit it off. She tried raw beef (Korean yook hwe) with me on one of our first dates, and she said she'd like to eat some raw meat once in a while. She's pretty adamant about not wanting to eat organs though. Also I cook for her a lot because I love to cook (unfortunately ironic eh?) and she doesn't cook much but loves to eat. It works out. My goal, if we stay together long term, is to get her to eat mostly paleo with at least some raw meat on a regular basis. The biggest challenge is that she is Indian and her parents raised her to love Indian foods, usually cooked with veggie oils, lots of rice, some breads, etc...that food is very tasty I'll admit. So I'll probably be making some cooked and raw meat dishes with the best imitation of Indian spices and sauces I can do.
In summary, ends up she liked me so much that the diet thing was a complete non issue, and she even wants to try it. I've never had a girl balk at my diet, from vegetarian through raw vegan to raw meat. Unfortunately for you I would imagine it would be a bit more difficult for women as men might be intimidated by raw meat eating, it's just considered a more masculine thing to eat meat in general. But if this guy likes you enough to be smothering you early on, then I would bet that this wouldn't be a serious issue. I think hiding it, or anything really, is a bad idea. When you get right down to it there are much stranger things people do, for example religion. People are out there believing in different God's and still getting together and making it work. Politics, some people are hardcore about beliefs. Something you do for health is just that, for your health, it's not who you are, and people don't tend to become offended at health decisions as they do for religious and political ones.
Be honest and open is my advice. Good luck!
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Hi Ioanna :)
I always tell stright out how I eat. I just say; I eat ewerything raw, thats feeling nice to me!
And I never, ever hade any negative responses on that. I have the feeling, guys like it, they always find it so funny and intresting. And Im never ashamed for it, though. Why should I? I even eat raw organs in front of people, why not. They eat their burgers & co. ;)
And so funny things always comes out...hihi. Yeah. Really funny. Lets see it with humor ;D. But I think, while they see how healthy and happy I am, they can only find it good, how I eat. So it is, I think..
When I go out im restaurants or for a date, we eat sashimi, tartar, carpaccio, some salad, or I order my steak raw. Just unfried, cold. It works fine! Only one time out of maybe 20, the waitress did not wanted to follow my order. She was afraid of "bad bakteria" ;) So she refused.. But this was only once.
Oh, and if I go to a party or something like that, I just take some food with me in my (large..hihi) bag. Some pieces of meat, or so. And just eat them out of my bag like it was the most normal thing in the world. And when people ask, I just tell... And it always turn out so funny.. ;D
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Thanks so much everyone who posted!, it's given me much confidence to just be me.
GS, there is nothing wrong with his approach, I wouldn't change anything about him... it just doesn't give me room to hide (eat!). Then falling into what Tyler was saying. Otherwise I'd probably adore the attention.
RK, that's good that she already knew, though you probably wouldn't have had a problem telling her anyway I bet. And she wants to try too!
Inger, thanks for your post!... that was inspiring :)
okay, I'm going to be honest... I'm not sure when, but I will... soon!
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...I've never had a girl balk at my diet, from vegetarian through raw vegan to raw meat.
I have. One lady friend scolded me with "You're killing yourself," among other criticisms, because of the plentiful raw meat and animal fat I'm eating. A female relative said similar things on multiple occasions. I haven't had a guy give me grief over it yet (unless you count people in forums like SuperInfinity :) )--only chuckling or a good-natured ribbing or two followed by admissions that I'm looking better.
I've tried to keep track of those people I've helped through sharing info, or via my good example, or indirectly through others I've helped. My current tabulation is 11 male adults that have responded positively (and also 3 male and 1 female children, but they don't make most of their own food choices) and at least tried a more ancestral WOE themselves, vs. 6 female adults (I may have forgotten a few people). Over half a dozen or so people responded very negatively, and as I recall they were all female, for whatever reason. Another example was a lady who eats loads of carbs and feeds them to her emotionally troubled son. Someone told her that I had celiac disease and she loudly confronted me about it at a social occasion (her aggressiveness was partly explained by her having overindulged in wine). I explained that technically I have gluten intolerance rather than clinical celiac disease, but she brushed that off and proceeded to share with me her opinion that celiac disease is just an overblown fad rather than a real disease. When I didn't support her on this, she stormed off. I'm still a bit perplexed that she thought someone who has gluten intolerance would agree with her that it's worst manifestation is a myth, but I've since learned from others that the facts mean much less to her than her need to get her way.
One of the negative responders actually tried conventional Paleo and quickly felt much better as a result, but then she had a blood test that showed high LDL and total cholesterol. Her doctor didn't tell her about the difference between benign, large, fluffly LDL vs. small, dense LDL and didn't do some of the better tests available at that time, like C Reactive Protein (there are even better ones today, of course). He sent her into a panic and his nurse told her she would have to eat only unsavory foods that nobody likes but must force themselves to eat if they want to be healthy. She did a 180 and adopted a Dean Ornish diet and felt miserable again, but was convinced she was following a healthier diet and started to lecture me about how we don't need more than a tablespoon of fat a day. She had the only negative reaction after trying a more ancestral WOE, and it was largely due to misinformation, rather than actual negative health effects.
The rest of the social reactions I've gotten were in-between: from only mildly negative to indeterminate to positive but not interested in pursuing info about a more ancient WOE. Of course, it's possible that the female respondents were just more vocal or expressive of their disapproval.
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I did it!!!!!... he was not phased in the least, lol. now I'm a brave new person :) ... though, unfortunately, I'm not feeling the chemistry.. moving on...
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Congrats on building up the courage to do it, and I'm glad you got a confidence boost out of it, Ionna! Sorry he didn't turn out to be a match for you, but you know the saying, "There are plenty of fish..."
Based on your and my experiences and the statistics on vegetarianism and the like, my guess is that few men will have a major problem with your eating of lots of raw meats.
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Luckily, I'm married and my family are used to me having odd ideas and practice them ;)
I also stopped being concered about what people might think of me, I always explaine that it is vital to my health to eat this way and if I stray; I get sick. Some people then think that it's in my imagination and I respond by giving them support from heavy scientific research, medical reports etc and always look them straight in their eye and also telling them that MY health is more important than some airy ideas about nutrition, diet soft drinks, crap food and additives etc. I know it sounds harsh but my family; cousins, aunts never think of ones personal wealth, only whats best out of tradition and what people might think of you, doing acting different. I do smile while talking with them but I've learnd to never back off. I've done that so many times before and for what? They never thank you for it or will make better friends with you...sorry guys, I KNOW it sounds awful, but again, sometimes you just cannot compromise...for whatever reason. I was given this insight for a reason and I will stick to it, no matter what my family says. My dear husband (yes, he is a darlin'!) told me to stop eat this way because it is to expensive. I replied, telling him what's better; a high medical bill, constant pain and mental brake down...and besides. Not all grass fed meat are that expensive. ONe HAS to look for it. More, I never eat crappy fast foods, drink beer, coke, strange imported juice, cheap sprayed fruits or berries, just some eggs, meat, fats, butters...and never grows tired of it... :P I live life as ment to be...... 8)
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Yeah, my sister's husband complained about the cost too, and she made some compromises to save money, but I can tell it affected their health negatively, though at least they are still better off than when they were eating SAD.
How does a Swedish person such as yourself know to say the American slang of "darlin'"? :o
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I already had a significant other when I started eating this way. One of the first responses was disbelief. One of the next responses was thinking I suddenly for the first time in my life I wanted to hurt myself or gone crazy. Very supportive of me though in it, and tonight even took me out for fish carpaccio.
Ayla, good to see you've found this place.
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If one practises Intermittent Fasting(especially the alternate day fasting), that's a great way to cut down on food-costs. Another way is to buy cheap wild game meats from farmers' markets(or to hunt if you have the time). Also, raw organ-meats(such as heart, kidneys/tongue) tend to be far cheaper than standard organic muscle-meats. To give you an example, for ages I was able to buy raw organic/100% grassfed ox liver at 2 pounds sterling a kilo and raw organic/grassfed ox heart for 8 pounds sterling a kilo, which compares to a whopping 28 to 30 pounds a kilo for organic/100% grassfed fillet steak.
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I apologize if this is becoming a bore, but I continue to struggle with bringing raw paleo into my social and romantic life.
I've made some progress though, lol!... I feel okay to tell a significant other my dietary choices. However I've not figured out how on earth to sort of 'mesh' lifestyles with someone who is not similar.
A first date for me tonight with a great person who is addicted to bbq's (tailgating), morning coffee, social beer drinking, and peanut m&m's, lol. Food, as for most, is a means of socializing.
I don't like this lifestyle... I don't want to raise children in this kind of lifestyle... and that makes me feel like if I want to share a life or even have children some day that I would have to make too many compromises that I am not comfortable with. I have no intentions to be limiting, but waffles, peanut butter, and ice cream sundaes are just not happening! I can't imagine anyone not thinking me ridiculous?
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I can't imagine anyone not thinking me ridiculous?
It's not rediculous - it's very true.
I can't imagine to be with someone who eats absolutely different from me. There are so many reasons behind this.
It's not only eating but also the whole life style.
There must be some common ground to share with someone.
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I apologize if this is becoming a bore, but I continue to struggle with bringing raw paleo into my social and romantic life.
I've made some progress though, lol!... I feel okay to tell a significant other my dietary choices. However I've not figured out how on earth to sort of 'mesh' lifestyles with someone who is not similar.
A first date for me tonight with a great person who is addicted to bbq's (tailgating), morning coffee, social beer drinking, and peanut m&m's, lol. Food, as for most, is a means of socializing.
I don't like this lifestyle... I don't want to raise children in this kind of lifestyle... and that makes me feel like if I want to share a life or even have children some day that I would have to make too many compromises that I am not comfortable with. I have no intentions to be limiting, but waffles, peanut butter, and ice cream sundaes are just not happening! I can't imagine anyone not thinking me ridiculous?
I do see you are at the romancing stage for now...
But I can relate. I've got wives and kids.
Sure people know I'm on raw paleo diet. It works best for me. I used to be really sick. Now I help people who are sick and RPD is the diet that delivers reliably.
On rare occasions I will slide down to eat cooked meat (but not for the whole day, that causes me tummy aches). Starches -- forget it. No way.
How I raise the kids. Striving for paleo diet cooked / rare / raw meats...lots of fats... hydrating fruits, high vitamin C fruits, I concede to organic rice as the least allergenic of the starches... but no other starches are acceptable... when they are sick they are forced on cooked meat paleo diet eliminating rice, when even sicker they are on raw paleo diet.
Kids... absolutely nothing beyond cooked paleo diet and rice. Even grandparents are made aware... no donuts, no pasta, no fast food, no pizza, etc. My wife is on cooked paleo diet with just a wee bit of rice for now.
Lifestyle wise shampoo is once a week and soaping the body is only once a week. Kids get eczema under the ears if they soap too much. No chemicals on their body. No chemicals in the house.
My wife and I like this lifestyle because it sure beats our old lifestyle when we were always sick and we often visited the hospital E.R. and had too many doctor appointments.
I am the family's shining example of health idol - example - teacher - food marketer - healer - best doctor. So they know raw paleo diet and lifestyle is what's good for them.
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How this came to be?
They saw me sick.
They saw me get well.
They watched me experiment and pioneer the raw paleo diet and lifestyle for them.
When they saw it was working splendidly my wife followed suit and the children as well.
My wife enforces diet and lifestyle on our kids same as me.
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Well, I don't think one has to follow conventional rules whether in dating or raising children. For example, I knew some men at university who never drank alcohol just either coca cola or mineral-water, depending on their inclinations. They didn't do so because they were uniquely susceptible to alcohol, in most cases, they just avoided it because they didn't like feeling drunk. And yet there is a massive drinking culture in UK universities.
Similiarly, raising children can be done on a semi-raw Weston-Price-style diet in the initial stages(assuming the children can tolerate raw dairy). That way, you don't isolate them from cooked-foods-consumption re social gatherings while still not compromising too much.
And, of course, there are always ways to get around issues, such as eating steak tartare or sashimi at restaurants etc.
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Similiarly, raising children can be done on a semi-raw Weston-Price-style diet in the initial stages(assuming the children can tolerate raw dairy). That way, you don't isolate them from cooked-foods-consumption re social gatherings while still not compromising too much.
That's what I meant. It's not good to be orthodox, but compromises shouldn't be to big.
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That's what I meant. It's not good to be orthodox, but compromises shouldn't be to big.
and what I meant too... I would be flexible to the degree Tyler described. And I like what GS wrote too. But someone who eats SAD would think granola healthy, pizza a norm on Friday nights, and oreos a great lunch snack. Who knows, maybe I'm anticipating more conflict than really would be. I just know how general (work, etc) people respond to me not consuming them.
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Ionna,
If I were guy dating you and I found you healthy, sexy, beautiful --- I wouldn't mind if you were a blood thirsty vampire preying on land animals. I wouldn't mind it either if you ate pizza and french fries as long as you are healthy, sexy and beautiful. (of course we know pizza and french fries will make you lose your beauty in a few short years... but TODAY the chick may be gorgeous). Your avatar used to be wonder woman, so if you look anything like wonder woman a guy who's crazy about your looks could logically infer that it's RPD that makes you gorgeous.
Besides, when you are out on a date, you can always choose to order restaurant stuff that are raw. Just last week I went out with old high school buddies and I just ordered 4 platefuls of raw oysters... the menu said it was to be cooked 2 ways, I just told the waiter I wanted them raw.
We live with our in laws. My father in law is a carb addict. He eats pastries at breakfast. It's no big deal, really. I just ate my ripe old raw fish and raw liver this dinner with them.
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Ionna,
If I were guy dating you and I found you healthy, sexy, beautiful --- I wouldn't mind if you were a blood thirsty vampire preying on land animals.
haha that is a great quote. i hate to say it but one of the benefits of technology and the internet is people are more exposed to different lifestyles and the pros/cons of each. in general i think people are becoming more acceptable then they would have been in the past because its hard to deny the wide spectrum of lifestyles when you can see them for yourself(as much as staring at a screen is 'seeing") i think you will find that someones acceptability of your lifestyle to be a kind of darwinian mechanism to weed out people/a mate who is #1: accepting of differences #2 :curious about health #3: concerned about your health and you being as healthy as possible regardless of the means
and maybe you do fall in love with someone who eats cheetos but is fully supportive of rpd....life is too bizarre to really contemplate or think you can even guess what is coming within the next second, just dont doubt that doing what makes you healthiest is wrong. i know there is need to balance physical health with social health so maybe find a social outlet that doesnt involve food, or first dates that arent dinner dates (a nice hike, art museum.....?) also at work, dont let people bully you arround, tell them you are allergic, most times people just have this controlling streak or if you dont accept they think you are being a snob, who cares! its your body and well being! but if you give them a good (medical) reason most often they will leave you alone:) hope any of this is helpful
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Your avatar used to be wonder woman, so if you look anything like wonder woman a guy who's crazy about your looks could logically infer that it's RPD that makes you gorgeous.
hahaha, I was actually approached while holiday shopping with some friends by a stranger who told be I look like I just walked out of a comic... I didn't know if that was a compliment or not, but I just decided to take it as one :)
Thanks GS and Jessica!!
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I just had a long discussion with a woman I have been dating for a couple of months now. She got rather stern with me and almost accused me of having an addiction, or at least stating that many or most people on 'unique' food quests are. Her one point that stuck was that somewhere along the line that the person's innate guidance for balance got thrown off. I have to agree in my case, for in high school I dieted for wrestling and continued for almost a year afterwards. Then there's my dad who would buy up to 100 dollars of vitamins a week. This was about 30 years ago, vit. prices were so low then. I tried to tell her about how well I do with my diet, and also how I have this real fear of hospitals and doctors and will do anything to avoid the both. And agreed that if there was an addiction it was out of this fear. But also that I want to have another child, ride horses, mountain bike, snow ski with my daughter and be strong and active for a long while. I did mention how if she would pay attention that women when they hit 40 (she's 31) go downhill real fast. Even though she didn't blink, I think she already new this. But for her, food IS one of her real passions. She loves to cook. So, even though she listens, I think it barely sinks in. And then I wonder why I chose her. Well actually she chose me, another story, But, there is this appreciation of having someone in my life like her that may help balance the equation, or bring me into a larger social circle and hence the opportunity to experience a greater variance of life.... Also I have never been involved with a lover without having an effect on their food choices. And I tend to believe that setting an example is really the only way to teach.
Food is a biggy, bigger than most will even be willing to look straight on into long enough to pierce even the thinnest skin. So if there's any advice, if you think you really care for this guy, stay conscious and accepting when he eats his peanut butter m&ms. Probably the only way he'll be able to do the same when you eat that half living thing on your plate.
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... I've got wives and kids.
... My wife is on cooked paleo diet with just a wee bit of rice for now.
...
When they saw it was working splendidly my wife followed suit and the children as well.
My wife enforces diet and lifestyle on our kids same as me.
Have any of your wives tried practicing raw paleo? The cooked paleo wife, does she eat raw vegetables and raw fruit? I was raised mostly with that diet, no franks nor sausages, but bone in meat and raw produce.
It's a little tough, but when I hang out for endless hours wherever my husband wants to go, I just carry some cut up juicy raw meat in a bag rolled in grated raw suet and snack on it when I have to. It hasn't gotten much more complicated than that recently. It looks like breaded tofu of breaded meat and I haven't done it too near to people in case they can smell suet.
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Have any of your wives tried practicing raw paleo? The cooked paleo wife, does she eat raw vegetables and raw fruit? I was raised mostly with that diet, no franks nor sausages, but bone in meat and raw produce.
Raw fish and raw eggs yes. Raw fruit is the default... cooking fruit is weird. Raw vegs used to do salads with me during my raw vegan trials... found fruit is a lot better than vegs.
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I grew up eating cheerios and drinking coke. I'm not going to mess that up for my kids. Their mother would have to go paleo so they can be properly nourished. I can't blame my parents for it because they were ignorant about diet. Now that I have somewhat of an idea of what a proper human diet should be, I would feel l guilty to not instill that in my wife and children. It wouldn't be fair to the children. I see eating a SAD the same think as alcohol consumption during pregnancy. You can't produce optimal human beings with sub optimal nutrition.
You guys know how huge Cro-magnon skulls were?
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Yes, they were 11% larger than ours. Though there are other explanations for the bigger size of their brains such as the cold-climate/intelligence theory or simple evolution(that is, our body size decreased after that along with the brain-size, and some people claim brain-size/body ratio is more of a sign of intelligence than large brains per se(though that is also disputed).
What is interesting is that the Inuit have the largest skulls,. reportedly, of all humans(though again that isn't necessarily a sign of greater intelligence).
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I think paleo humans were powerful hunting machines. We were suppose to be able to survive that environment. Along with big muscles came big brains. I think the advent of agriculture caused us to evolve backwards more or less.
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Yes, they were 11% larger than ours. Though there are other explanations for the bigger size of their brains such as the cold-climate/intelligence theory or simple evolution(that is, our body size decreased after that along with the brain-size, and some people claim brain-size/body ratio is more of a sign of intelligence than large brains per se(though that is also disputed).
I don't see much evidence for a cold climate/intelligence theory. Humans evolved in the hottest of climates. Not only that, you would would expect Northern Europeans to be noticeably more intelligent than Southern Chinese, or people from India, and that is manifestly wrong.
If pure brain size were all that mattered, then whales would be the smartest creatures on the planet. They have 20 pound brains, in some cases. Just to clarify, if anyone says that whales really are the smartest creatures, I already think you're stupid.
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Every guy I date respects that I am pure ZC, and there are no "vacations, holidays, special events" for excuses. Most find it hot.
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That's pretty funny about the whale thing. I liked that. Yea, if you're comparing them to us. But comparing them to other creatures of the sea, I would have to say they are the most intelligent for their environment. And who eats whales? Humans, that's why we run the damn planet. The top predators are the smartest of all animals in an ecosystem. They have to be.
You're saying intelligence sprang out only from warm climates? I failed to find the correlation between the two. I was trying to explain that in order to be smarter you had to be more carnivorous. By eating more meat we got smarter. We didn't go chasing a banana tree all the way to the north pole, we chased herds of animals. Why do you think we get along better with dogs and not gerbils.
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Every guy I date respects that I am pure ZC, and there are no "vacations, holidays, special events" for excuses. Most find it hot.
That's great that ZC is working so well for your social life.
I don't want to lose the perspective of the thread though which was not about sharing a (cooked) steak dinner with a date, but about sharing an intimate lifestyle, possibly raising children, with a hypothetical and future Mr. Right who most likely will not be raw paleo.
Maybe it is just my culture coming out, we are Greek and Italian... eating together as a family and the kinds of food we prepare together as a family are (sounds weird?) a big part of 'family'. So, I like to hear experiences of people here that are either already married, have significant others, or maybe dating as I am on how their lifestyles come together, not just to accept each other, but raising children too.
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... I don't want to lose the perspective of the thread though which was not about sharing a (cooked) steak dinner with a date, but about sharing an intimate lifestyle, possibly raising children, with a hypothetical and future Mr. Right who most likely will not be raw paleo.
Maybe it is just my culture coming out, we are Greek and Italian... eating together as a family and the kinds of food we prepare together as a family are (sounds weird?) a big part of 'family'. So, I like to hear experiences of people here that are either already married, have significant others, or maybe dating as I am on how their lifestyles come together, not just to accept each other, but raising children too.
I'm a householder here. My husband and I love each other no matter what we eat. We go out dancing sometimes with friends or to a party. People think we're a great couple. I would love to hang out with paleo people though or primal dieters. I don't know that we'll ever get to a point that we'll eat with friends who eat like us. Eating is a social thing. I'd advise, if possible to marry someone who eats similarly, do so.
Beds too, I had a weak back since before adolescence. I had to either sleep on an excellent bed or preferably the floor to deal with it or go to sleep early and do yoga before getting out of bed in the morning. Now I either have to coordinate with my husband or compromise etc.
You know it's even hard for me to think about preparing a meal when everyone eats different. I always prepared healthy food, and people enjoyed what I prepared without everyone going their own way. I ran health food kitchens, and some of them I served different to each person, but along one theme. It is weird to me to do the present kind of diverse themes all at once.
Hey, but I found a restaurant now that serves vegan, vegetarian, raw vegan (seed cheeses etc) and free range meat all at once. We ate there a few times already. Unfortunately I could only order offerings like the vegiekraut rolls. They won't serve their free range raw. I'll tell you if I can get them to change or if I apply for a job there or anything. Already people see me with things like young coconut water in the shell and ask so I teach them something new to them. Maybe I can get them to do sashimi. They do have seafood and I haven't directly asked about that, just meat.
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You're saying intelligence sprang out only from warm climates? I failed to find the correlation between the two. I was trying to explain that in order to be smarter you had to be more carnivorous. By eating more meat we got smarter. We didn't go chasing a banana tree all the way to the north pole, we chased herds of animals. Why do you think we get along better with dogs and not gerbils.
No. I was actually pointing that out in response to TylerDurden's talking about high intelligence being correlated with cold climates.
The fact is, everything evolves in the tropics, pretty much. A few species venture out toward colder areas, but most genetic mutations occur in warmer areas.
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I don't think it just only happens in warm environment. Everything evolves based on inputs and outputs of the whole ecosystem. Regardless of hot and cold, dry or wet, postition of the moon, etc.. Evolution happens because of the changing environment. If anything the ice ages most likely created the last shift in homo.
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... If anything the ice ages most likely created the last shift in homo.
... A few species venture out toward colder areas, but most genetic mutations occur in warmer areas.
I tend to agree with CK here, not Fulcrum. Yes if we eat cooked meat to warm us up in Winter and that may change us, but kill off our lines too if we don't have houses and cars while we're raising our babies practicing that diet. Do you have children who are RPDers too redfulcrum?
... Why do you think we get along better with dogs and not gerbils.
You mean because dogs are more social or help us hunt and herd? I don't know what gerbils eat in nature, but in nature hamsters hunt insects. No wonder many people with hamsters on Hartz Hamster Food, the hamsters bite each other, bite people, and the hamsters eat their own babies.
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I don't see much evidence for a cold climate/intelligence theory. Humans evolved in the hottest of climates. Not only that, you would would expect Northern Europeans to be noticeably more intelligent than Southern Chinese, or people from India, and that is manifestly wrong.
That's not correct. From what I understand re the cold-climate/intelligence theory, Asians(as in Orientals/East Asians/Chinese) are actually more cold-adapted than Europeans(having smaller bodies etc.). Also, specific genes for intelligence could easily spread around the whole world, even if they originated at first in Arctic/subArctic areas.The idea is that the Ice Age speeded up human evolution, with even hotter areas being cooler than usual, so mostly evolving in hotter climates(that is, assuming that the Out of Africa model is superior to the Multiregional Hypothesis) doesn't preclude the above theory as such.
The larger skulls of Eskimoes does seem to lend credence to both the cold-climate/intelligence theory and the meat-consumption theory, though, of course, you are quite right, larger skulls/brain-size does not necessarily imply a higher intelligence as someone with a smaller brain could have lower brainweight overall, in areas such as the reptilian brain portion etc., while having more neurons in the prefrontal cortex, thus having a higher intelligence in actual fact.
Anyway, it's just 1 theory among many, there's also the notion that tool-use instead speeded up brain-development instead of meat-consumption or the cold-climate theory. What I'm more interested in is whether sentient intelligence on the human level was inevitable(and therefore implying that the Fermi Paradox is wrong) or just a lucky accident.
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I don't see how you can be with somebody who isn't on the same diet as you are. Its kind of like, if i go out and eat a bunch of bullshit food and come home and i feel crap or im all hopped up on sugar, my wife doesnt want to have to deal with that crap, especially when ive gone and done it to myself. How is she able to sit down and have a regular decent conversation with somebody who isnt thinking clearly?
People say that we talk about food a lot, i look and go 'yes, yes we do', but you guys dont talk about food but are ALWAYS EATING. I think its because they dont talk about food other than 'oh yeah, i saw this product that has put cheese and wheat together in a new fantastic combination! you HAVE to try out this awesome artificial flavor!!'. Where we are more aware of our food and ask 'how did this make me feel, yes its tasty but i enjoy my health more than food in face'.
I have found going raw carnivore has changed my perspective a lot. When i look at it i am A LOT less afraid of everything than i used to be, so when i talk to people now i find they talk about boring crap like television shows, small talk, how food tastes, their crappy health problems. When i go to speak to people now and try have a productive conversation with them eyes roll, its like they dont have the focus to sit and discuss, and they take it as a personal insult to them when they say something like 'yeah, so im constipated', and ill tell them its from eating cheese and wheat for every meal.... and then they go and order pizza for lunch... l)
Edit: And my wife thinks that any guy who doesn't eat raw meat is a pussy :P
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I don't see how you can be with somebody who isn't on the same diet as you are.
I dosn't have to be exactly the same diet - the similar one would be enough.
I know some guy, who is on rawpaleodiet (with high-meats), and is married to woman who is on LC with some raw elements. And everything is OK.
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I dosn't have to be exactly the same diet - the similar one would be enough.
I know some guy, who is on rawpaleodiet (with high-meats), and is married to woman who is on LC with some raw elements. And everything is OK.
One of the commonest phrases is ":- Don't marry for money, but go where the money is". Same thing as regards diet/health:- It would be a bad idea to judge one's partner primarily on the basis of what diet they ate/how close it was to your diet etc., but it's a good idea to mix mainly with people who are at least somewhat health-oriented. That way, you're much more likely to find someone who doesn't mind your diet, even if their diet is still not the same as yours.
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I don't see how you can be with somebody who isn't on the same diet as you are. Its kind of like, if i go out and eat a bunch of bullshit food and come home and i feel crap or im all hopped up on sugar, my wife doesnt want to have to deal with that crap, especially when ive gone and done it to myself. How is she able to sit down and have a regular decent conversation with somebody who isnt thinking clearly?
My entire relationship with my wife has always been that way. First it was because my food allergies limited what I could have and now it's a conscious choice to be healthier by eating RAF.
It takes two things to be successful. First, the person on the altered diet needs to have strong willpower so they don't "cheat". Some can do this, others can't. Most of us here on the forum seem capable to sticking our course. Second, you need an understanding partner. Some people just have more patience and you really need a saint of a spouse sometimes depending on what you've been eating. Thankfully RAF has a truly grounding effect, IMO, so I've become the more stable one in the relationship. ;D
Edit: For the records my wife's always eaten SAD and has only begun modifying her diet in the last 4 1/2 years we've been together as I've shown her what foods do not do well with her body. She's eating mostly grain-free and fairly LC now but she still cheats here or there. She's also hopelessly addicted to dairy even as we both see how her body doesn't like it but it's her body and her choice as to when she'll change.
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That's not correct. From what I understand re the cold-climate/intelligence theory, Asians(as in Orientals/East Asians/Chinese) are actually more cold-adapted than Europeans(having smaller bodies etc.). Also, specific genes for intelligence could easily spread around the whole world, even if they originated at first in Arctic/subArctic areas.The idea is that the Ice Age speeded up human evolution, with even hotter areas being cooler than usual, so mostly evolving in hotter climates(that is, assuming that the Out of Africa model is superior to the Multiregional Hypothesis) doesn't preclude the above theory as such.
The larger skulls of Eskimoes does seem to lend credence to both the cold-climate/intelligence theory and the meat-consumption theory, though, of course, you are quite right, larger skulls/brain-size does not necessarily imply a higher intelligence as someone with a smaller brain could have lower brainweight overall, in areas such as the reptilian brain portion etc., while having more neurons in the prefrontal cortex, thus having a higher intelligence in actual fact.
Anyway, it's just 1 theory among many, there's also the notion that tool-use instead speeded up brain-development instead of meat-consumption or the cold-climate theory. What I'm more interested in is whether sentient intelligence on the human level was inevitable(and therefore implying that the Fermi Paradox is wrong) or just a lucky accident.
Like I've mentioned before, Asians get taller when they come to the US and eat the SAD diet. A LOT taller.
How could sentience be accidental? Bigger brains have been evolving for hundreds of millions of years. It was the natural result of evolving bigger brains, I'd say. :)
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Socially, we raw paleo dieters are the minority... even smaller in numbers than the cooked paleos, or the raw vegans. So the attitude adjustment needs to come from us.
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Like I've mentioned before, Asians get taller when they come to the US and eat the SAD diet. A LOT taller.
And, as I pointed out myself, Asians coming to the US have only risen in height by a rather small amount vis-a-vis their counterparts in Asia. They , along with Hispanics are still the shortest of all ethnic groups in the US, even after generations of being there as a community. A brilliant example of what I mean are the Inuit who, until recently, fed on a diet much closer to our own, consisting of a lot of raw meat/fish, and who have always been short and stocky, despite this diet which is much healthier than the American SAD diet by far.
How could sentience be accidental? Bigger brains have been evolving for hundreds of millions of years. It was the natural result of evolving bigger brains, I'd say. :)
Not necessarily. After all, no other species comes close to us in terms of sentience. Even chimpanzees aren't terribly remarkable for their intelligence.
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When im eating raw outside say, for work lunch i eat my food in front of everybody.. heres how you do it.
I have a big glass bowl/container thing, i chunk all my meat and fat and organs, just whatever i want to eat for lunch is cubed up into bite sized pieces, then ill add a little spice, like some curry and garlic or something. I add all that in and mix it up and when i head off to work i throw my container up on the dash board and let the sun warm it up all day while im working or whatever. When i get hungry for some lunch i just go and grab my container and chopsticks, find a spot and sit down. Your lunch will be nice and warmed up and its given your flavors all day to meld together. When you take the lid off of your food everyones going to have their noses in the air sniffing 'Oh man, what smells so good?'. I get comments all the time about how great my food smells, but they always jump 5 feet backwards when I offer them a bite :P
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And, as I pointed out myself, Asians coming to the US have only risen in height by a rather small amount vis-a-vis their counterparts in Asia. They , along with Hispanics are still the shortest of all ethnic groups in the US, even after generations of being there as a community. A brilliant example of what I mean are the Inuit who, until recently, fed on a diet much closer to our own, consisting of a lot of raw meat/fish, and who have always been short and stocky, despite this diet which is much healthier than the American SAD diet by far.
Yes, and I think the tallness of certain Americans can be accounted for by abnormal growth brought on by gluten and dairy interfering with the body's natural mechanisms for shutting off growth (this also contributes to cancer). Individuals who are far taller and lankier than avg, such as many people with Marfan syndrome, are rare in nature. In nature, wild species tend to have relatively small variations in form, as compared to modern humans, who have extreme variations. Differences in appearance become more extreme when toxic elements are introduced that result in genetic and epigenetic deformities.
Not necessarily. After all, no other species comes close to us in terms of sentience. Even chimpanzees aren't terribly remarkable for their intelligence.
Yes, but there is SOME correlation between larger brain/body ratio and increased intelligence. This is not in dispute in the scientific community in any case other than possibly among humans (though I think even the scientists who downplay the importance of brain size tend to admit it is at least a factor).
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Yes, and I think the tallness of certain Americans can be accounted for by abnormal growth brought on by gluten and dairy interfering with the body's natural mechanisms for shutting off growth (this also contributes to cancer). Individuals who are far taller and lankier than avg, such as many people with Marfan syndrome, are rare in nature. In nature, wild species tend to have relatively small variations in form, as compared to modern humans, who have extreme variations. Differences in appearance become more extreme when toxic elements are introduced that result in genetic and epigenetic deformities.
Ah yes, I've heard that claim re the increase in modern height being linked to unhealthy diets. However, I would strongly disagree with that theory. For one thing, it was noted that the British upper-classes in the Middle-Ages were remarkably taller than their peasant-counterparts(nobles ate better, getting organ-meats, higher meat-intake etc.) Indeed Richard The Lionheart was caught in Austria because he couldn't blend in his 6ft figure among a populace normally 5ft tall. And shortened height at the time was directly related to various health-problems, no doubt caused by high grain-intake etc.
In my own case, I'm descended from tall ancestors, yet I am 3 inches shorter than my brother(males in my family usually are around 6ft 3). I strongly suspect that all those yars of dairy-cosnumption wrecked my glandular system in such a way that growth-hormone production was disabled to some extent.Yes, but there is SOME correlation between larger brain/body ratio and increased intelligence. This is not in dispute in the scientific community in any case other than possibly among humans (though I think even the scientists who downplay the importance of brain size tend to admit it is at least a factor).
There may be some correlation between brain-size/body ratio and increased intelligence(though there are, apparently, exceptions to the rul, see wikipedia entry) but the difference between chimpanzees and humans is so vast in cultural terms that other explanations are more likely(eg:- increased concentrations of neurons in specific areas rather than brain-size as such etc.)
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All wild species have a natural mutational rate which implies birth-defects appearing as a routine here and there. I agree that a good diet would reduce the number of defects, trouble is, despite seaching, there is no reliable scientific data establishing the average rate of birth-defects in wild species(unsurprising as it would be extremely difficult to monitor such(defective cubs would be swiftly eliminated due to natural selection, dying in the womb etc.)
All I know is that (non-inbred) humans have a birth-defect range of 4%(for modern developed world, of course). Of course, that involves only genetic illnesses, heavy predisposition to diabetes type 1 etc., would not be part of those figures.
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Ah yes, I've heard that claim re the increase in modern height being linked to unhealthy diets. However, I would strongly disagree with that theory. For one thing, it was noted that the British upper-classes in the Middle-Ages were remarkably taller than their peasant-counterparts(nobles ate better, getting organ-meats, higher meat-intake etc.) Indeed Richard The Lionheart was caught in Austria because he couldn't blend in his 6ft figure among a populace normally 5ft tall. And shortened height at the time was directly related to various health-problems, no doubt caused by high grain-intake etc.
In my own case, I'm descended from tall ancestors, yet I am 3 inches shorter than my brother(males in my family usually are around 6ft 3). I strongly suspect that all those yars of dairy-cosnumption wrecked my glandular system in such a way that growth-hormone production was disabled to some extent. There may be some correlation between brain-size/body ratio and increased intelligence(though there are, apparently, exceptions to the rul, see wikipedia entry) but the difference between chimpanzees and humans is so vast in cultural terms that other explanations are more likely(eg:- increased concentrations of neurons in specific areas rather than brain-size as such etc.)
Interesting. A sibling, taller than me, tested allergic to cow milk. I tested nonallergic to it. I didn't like dairy very much and avoided it most of the time. I don't think any of the dairy was available raw growing up for us. I remember my sibling eating lots of melted cheese as often as possible, while me barely ever. I just didn't have the same interest. The dairy I did like was heavy cream and fermented heavy cream or high fat raw blue cheese (not melted). Maybe the unnatural form dairy minerals made excess growth, or just lacked molybdenum. I think I remember reading that molybdenum as a nutrient prevents excessive unhealthy length of the bones.
alcohol and excess copper deplete molybdenum in the body
Maybe a high carb diet turns to alcohol and depletes the molybdenum.
Of course I could be shorter than I should be due to not digesting enough as a child.
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Ah yes, I've heard that claim re the increase in modern height being linked to unhealthy diets.
You've misunderstood me. I tried to be clear that I was referring to extreme variations within a population, rather than increases in avg height of an overall population.
I wasn't referring to all moderners, just "certain" of the more "extreme" cases. I agree that nutrient rich diets raise the overall avg height of the population, and that variations of nutrition level within populations can increase height variations within populations (for example, the restriction of hunting to the monarchy and nobility and the tendency of peasants to eat lots of grains--such as in King Richard the Lionheart's time--good example--so famously described in the story "Robin Hood"), but some extreme height variations, such as among some with Marfan (aka Marfan's) syndrome and your milk-shortening example, can theoretically be connected to deleterious effects from grains, dairy and other modern foods. Also, the same modern food can have opposite effects on different people (shortening vs. making taller, hypothyroidism vs. hyperthyroidism, etc.), which is one reason why today's physicians and scientists tend to discount diet as a factor in disease. The effects are complex and often not intuitive. The consistent aspect is that the changes tend to be more deleterious and extreme than those found in wild nature.
BTW, I know you don't buy the diet connection to Marfan and other genetic illnesses, so let's not rehash that one again. I also didn't use the term "unhealthy diets," as it's theoretically possible to eat a mostly healthy diet, yet still have a mother or her unborn child react negatively to one modern food she's consuming, or eat all-raw-Paleo foods yet be nutritionally deficient because of insufficient quantity or poor balance of foods, and it's also possible to have increases in avg overall population height even though the population is still eating a sub-optimal diet (as in the case of Americans on the SAD). I was referring to some of the extremes that modern foods might theoretically contribute to, again, as in the milk-shortening example you gave.
In my own case, I'm descended from tall ancestors, yet I am 3 inches shorter than my brother(males in my family usually are around 6ft 3). I strongly suspect that all those yars of dairy-cosnumption wrecked my glandular system in such a way that growth-hormone production was disabled to some extent. ....
Right, so you acknowledge that eating a modern food can contribute to shorter height, I would just add unusually increased height to that (as in Marfan, not as in general avg height increase). I was talking about extremes in either direction, shorter or taller, not just taller, so we agree on at least half of it. If the Marfan example bugs you, use your shortening-through-milk-consumption example.
As usual, I think our basic views are much closer than you realize, but certain details are causing difficulties for you. If something I've written seems way off, I think we would both be better served if you asked me for clarification rather than you try to read between my lines, as that seems to be where you're often missing my points.
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Studies have shown that children of vegetarian/vegan parents tend to have lower intelligence and so do the grandchildren, even if their parents weren't vegan. I think it was far more pronounced if the mother was vegan as opposed to the father. Something to keep in mind when searching for the opposite chromosome; tho probably most here would already shy away from a vegan partner.
I've tried to get my gf to go raw paleo. She's made some good changes like cutting down on the processed foods and cooking her steaks more rare, but she still doesn't take time to make lunch for work, instead eats whatever is available (processed foods). After 2 years, that seems to be as far as she'll go.
If I ever planned on having kids, I've decided that it has to be with someone who's been RP for at least a year prior to conception. If I can't find her, then it's not worth it to have children. Seems kind of selfish, having learned how important RPD is for proper health and development and then choose to have a child with a SADer just b/c I want kids. I say better to hold out and hope to come across another RPDer. Of course, being a guy I have a little more time for holding out than a girl.
I'd like to be a father some day, even more so b/c of RPD, but every time I think about it, it's hard to see myself saying okay, I'm ready to spend the next 20-25 years devoting my life to this. Guess I just gotta wait and see. It'd probably be easier if I was with another RPDer.
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I'm with you guitar man. I would never have kids with a vegan or vegetarian.
It doesn't seem fair to bring a kid into the world when you know their not going to get the best possible shot at life. I wish I was one of those people that just plain didn't want kids it would be so much easier.
I still think a woman with excellent genes on a OK diet is still better than a woman with average genes on a RPD diet.
PS Someone mentioned that face structure/palate can get better over generations with better diet. This is definitely true I see it in my own family. My parents are short with crowded teeth while myself and my brother tower over them/with broad shoulders and my brother has a killer Weston Price smile.
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Finding a woman on RPD to be a potential mother is pretty steep. It would be easier to find a woman on cooked meat paleo diet. The raw part can be negotiated later on.
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I figure that since this is sort of a "How do I explain this to my loved one" type deal, I have some questions and a story.
I found out about this a day or two ago and won't be able to truly start until I can control my own meals (I'm at college and in a dorm; the college makes you buy a meal plan and it would be a very large waste of a lot of money to ignore my meal plans and buy my own food, so sadly, until I live on my own, I cannot go raw). I told my best friend (a woman), who, once I explained it to, thought it was fine. She said she even believed in it, but said that she could never give up all the foods she loved. She and I are epicureans, really, but unlike her, I've always gravitated towards raw meats. (The only way I have ever enjoyed fish was sashimi, I've bought containers of blood at Asian markets, but was too scared of germs, tried to boil it, and burned it, loved rare and blue-rare steaks, and usually eat all my fruits raw. My dad would ban me from fast foods and sodas.) I then told my step-sister, who thought I was bloody insane and an utter idiot, wondering how was I ever to pay for this highly expensive food. My father probably thought it was a little weird, but when I explained, he understood. Like me, if there's a plausible logical (or scientific) reason for something, then its fine. However, my boyfriend was, initially, at least over AIM, fine with it.
Then when we were driving to a restaurant tonight, we had a big fight over it. He thinks I'm going to kill myself through parasites or bacteria. When I explain to him my cat example (that cats shouldn't eat the commercial grain food we give them, and when they do, they're unhealthy and sick), he told me that we're not like cats. We're people. (I would assume that he'd understand the cat example more, as he was with me and saw when our oldest cat was dying, all due to her diet. He watched us when she wouldn't eat dry food and only meats, then became healthy again.) I tried to explain to him that bacteria and parasites can be good for you, and that it doesn't seem as though people get all that sick from raw meat. He's disappointed that he wouldn't be able to cook for me; he likes grilling and working with meats, but I told him that so long as he didn't cook it for long, I would be able to. He's worried about having to make sure that restaurants would be able to feed me--whether or not that they had steak tartar, carpaccio, or sashimi. That we'd no longer be able to eat out anymore together. (Even though I tried to explain to him that I could order rare steaks.) Or that he'd feel bad for me having a special diet--I'm not even sure if I understand that. It's my diet, I can watch out for myself. (Although he probably wants to provide and watch out for me, not vice versa.) Also, he's absolutely disgusted by eating raw meat, which I wish he wasn't purely because he eats absolutely disgustingly processed foods; he lived off of hot pockets for years, even standard-wise, he didn't have a healthy diet (whether or not all his issues are diet related, I don't know), and it shows. The least of which is unable to use the bathroom for days--I took him to the ER once for a distended abdomen, for that reason, it'd been 3 days. He left in the middle of the wait. He was fine, but I've seen what that can do to your bowels.
He said that just thinking about me eating raw meat makes him feel sick. He says he'd vomit if he saw me eat raw meat. (When I asked him about raw fish, he says that idea makes him sick as well--that also goes for him vomiting if I ate it in front of him.) He can't understand why I like steak even remotely more rare than well-done. He's decided that I could just eat rare steaks. He doesn't know that I'd stop eating other things as well, like bread. When I elusively mentioned that while we were in a store (I was looking for carpaccio to test him--what would he do if he DIDN'T know he was watching me eat raw meat? Or if -he- ate it as well), he said he'd force feed me bread, as that's the main part of the food pyramid--11 servings per day.
He doesn't seem to like health nuts, either. When his last girlfriend started getting pickier, he left her. He can't seem to stand people with food issues. He hates my step-mother because she's a health nut (what she thinks on this, I don't know, probably thinks its stupid, like my step-sister--we quarrel a lot on what food is healthy, despite us both being interested in the subject). When I told him about the (what I thought was cute) acronym, SAD, he got pissed off. Thought that it was elitist. That "Americans must be sad because they're eating disgusting SAD food." When I told my father and aunt, whom I tend to look for the most guidance, they thought it was cute and amusing as well. To quote my dad, "It IS sad!" I still don't understand why he hates the SAD acronym. He was absolutely fine with SMD.
I think overall, he doesn't feel as though he'll be providing for me--that whole manly thing. He wouldn't be able to cook them for me, so then its like... I don't need his help. He also seems to feel its anti-human, too barbaric. He can never stand to hear me say things like "Humans are animals!" He says he'd definitely deny me my right to be fed to animals when I die (which you are allowed to do in the USA, supposedly, however I don't know who does it) and instead give me either a normal burial or cremate me. (Whether or not its weird to talk about burials when you're 21, I pretty much talk about a lot of ideas, usually with my father, which I then tend to rely to my boyfriend, which a mixture of results.)
I just don't know how to bring him to understand my decision. He may, somewhere in his brain, logically understand what I mean--that humans were raw eaters and that our systems are still better off with raw food, but when dealt personally, with me, he has an issue with it.
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Tough issue when you are young with peers.
I just tell people I used to be really fat and sick and this works for me so they let me be.
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When I told him about the (what I thought was cute) acronym, SAD, he got pissed off. Thought that it was elitist. That "Americans must be sad because they're eating disgusting SAD food." When I told my father and aunt, whom I tend to look for the most guidance, they thought it was cute and amusing as well. To quote my dad, "It IS sad!" I still don't understand why he hates the SAD acronym. He was absolutely fine with SMD.
It's better than that. SAD depresses the body which truly does make people sadder. One of the most common benefits I've seen touted by people eating raw meat and especially raw fat is an increase in mood. When you're not dealing with a constant barrage of damaged food you develop a feeling of well being and for lack of a better term happiness. :)
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Finding a woman on RPD to be a potential mother is pretty steep. It would be easier to find a woman on cooked meat paleo diet. The raw part can be negotiated later on.
I would think that if she's cooked paleo, raw would be a natural inclination too.
I agree with Wodgina and Guittarman about it being easier to accept a non-RPD if I were sure I did not want kids, and feel it selfish to have any with a non-RPD just to have them.
My parents know I eat meat, just not how I eat it, yet still, both have made comments about being sure to cook it properly. This makes me feel that if I told anyone how I eat they would think I am eating dangerously for health. How can I carry the child of someone who thinks the way I am eating is dangerous for me, let alone a developing person inside?? and then issues on how to raise a child... cooked chicken, berries, veg, seared meats might be as far as I can go, while he would not understand the unsuitability of 'rewarding' a day or behavior or football game with... who knows what?!?
Even before RPD my mom was against bringing processed food into the house... everything was homemade, as much came from the garden as possible which included all kinds of berries and veg, we did not eat dessert except on special occasion (e.g. birthday) and that was homemade too, and we hardly ever ate out of the house (cultural thing for me) except on very special occasion that we would go to a nice restaurant (eg engagement party or something). I've never had a boxed cereal, wonder bread, pop tart, twinkie, hostess anything, etc. so I always found this kind of 'food' a turn-off, but I never just how unhealthy it is. Now it is simply unacceptable, I cannot tolerate it... I see what people at work eat in the break-room... that is their norm everyday... my way sounds so strict/limited/boring to the average person here. I one time refused a piece of cake more than 5 times from the same person before I gave in to say that I am gluten-intolerant... then it was okay not to be eating cake while carrying on with the socialization. And then EVERYONE wants to know if not cake, what do I eat. My answer is obviously not acceptable as this question comes up again and again and again by the same people over and over and over... but what do you eat?? It gets old!, and I feel uncomfortable with that kind of attention though I hope it does not show.
Another date tonight... he is perfectly nice... all I could smell was a bunch of chemicals! :P Laundry fabric softeners, soaps, colognes... too much!
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ioanna
it seems that you just happen be surrounded at work with a bunch of unhealthy people and the fact that your family doesnt seem as though they would accept your diet as it is probably compounds the feeling that everyone is like that. there are people who would be more accepting of this, as well as less chemical ridden in general! i do no know what part of the country you are in or what your hobbies are but there are parts of the country in general where people are more open minded and foward thinking about these kind of things, although i am not suggesting you move! i think it would be beneficial to find places in your town to connect with people who are more in tune with how you live
as for how you grew up, mine was somewhat similar and it makes me extremely thankful! although, before i knew the consequences, i was allowed to partake in packaged foods, i would have rather not so i am a bit jealous!
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whoa extralizard i just read you post
i dont want to be rude but your boyfriend sounds pretty immature and insecure! if he werent he would have no need to be so controlling and to keep you subserviant, do you see he is making decisions for you based on his own interest? i hope you do what is best for your health regardless of college and boyfriend....i know you are on a food plan but do you know anyone who works in the cafeteria? i would totally hook up with one of them and see if they cant smuggle you raw eggs/fish/meat/veggie (hopefully they arent too poor quality) which you could prepare yourself, or atleast stick to a cooked paleo
its always amazing to me how intrinsically linked feating and dating/courting are. i see the whole showing someone you can take care of them by providing food but its kind of gross to me that now-a-days people end up in a restaurant, generally filling themselves on poor quality food+chemicals prepared like narcotics to be as addictive as possible..just getting bloated on additives
there is a huge industry that has to do with making restaurant food contain just enough sweet, salty, fat and sugar to really play with insulin and satiety receptors to make the food narcotic! also just the environment inside of restaurants is a planned barrage of smells to make you more hungry! yuck
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I've tried to get my gf to go raw paleo. She's made some good changes like cutting down on the processed foods and cooking her steaks more rare, but she still doesn't take time to make lunch for work, instead eats whatever is available (processed foods). After 2 years, that seems to be as far as she'll go.
If I ever planned on having kids, I've decided that it has to be with someone who's been RP for at least a year prior to conception. If I can't find her, then it's not worth it to have children. Seems kind of selfish, having learned how important RPD is for proper health and development and then choose to have a child with a SADer just b/c I want kids. I say better to hold out and hope to come across another RPDer. Of course, being a guy I have a little more time for holding out than a girl.
I'd like to be a father some day, even more so b/c of RPD, but every time I think about it, it's hard to see myself saying okay, I'm ready to spend the next 20-25 years devoting my life to this. Guess I just gotta wait and see. It'd probably be easier if I was with another RPDer.
If your gf has gone as far as she can with respects to rpd and you won't want to conceive a child with someone who isnt a rpd for at least a year and add to this that you want to be a father then I think you need to think about ending the relationship. If you really are set with your ways then its not going to be fair to her at all staying with her. Why not save the time and look for someone you will be more compatible with?
There are plenty of women who will be willing to change their diet significantly towards raw paleo, you just have to find them.
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5 times from the same person before I gave in to say that I am gluten-intolerant... then it was okay not to be eating cake while carrying on with the socialization. And then EVERYONE wants to know if not cake, what do I eat. My answer is obviously not acceptable as this question comes up again and again and again by the same people over and over and over... but what do you eat?? It gets old!, and I feel uncomfortable with that kind of attention though I hope it does not show.
Another date tonight... he is perfectly nice... all I could smell was a bunch of chemicals! :P Laundry fabric softeners, soaps, colognes... too much!
I've been through a work scene or two very much like that. As a child too I had no interest in cake, and some people think that's sick.
My husband uses totally SAD off the shelf hair products every day, SAD colognes, burns perfumy incense every day and buys scented cat litter. I never had an indoor cat (nor a sick cat) before I met him. I feel this is a major part of the reason I got sick. I got him to agree now not to buy the cat litter again; because this time it affected both me and my son and we just can't take this package anymore. I've never had an outdoor cat since I met him. He would prefer them closed in one room, even our bedroom which is another story. I don't see why a capable animal like a cat needs to be in a room, unless of course the room had mice. He wants to help, but he's perfectly fine with commercialism in his own home and I can't be and be perfectly well at the same time so far. I was very well ninety-seven percent of the time before I met him, but since it's a verbal fight for each step of what's healthy for me. It's a challenge when people almost seem from different worlds, for lack of a better way to describe it. I've never been a long term natural or artificial stimulant beverage drinker nor ever had chronic post nasal drip (once had dripping for nine days after eating a piece of bread). Does one have to have stimulants or a different nasal set up to tolerate fabric softener, artificial scent and detergent?
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I figure that since this is sort of a "How do I explain this to my loved one" type deal, I have some questions and a story.
If a person enjoys reading, getting him to read "We Want to Live" by Aajonus Vonderplanitz is maybe the best rawist propaganda.
If he can cope with science, then "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Weston A. Price is the one - not all raw, but the best for showing the evil of bread.
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whoa extralizard i just read you post
i dont want to be rude but your boyfriend sounds pretty immature and insecure! if he werent he would have no need to be so controlling and to keep you subserviant, do you see he is making decisions for you based on his own interest? i hope you do what is best for your health regardless of college and boyfriend....i know you are on a food plan but do you know anyone who works in the cafeteria? i would totally hook up with one of them and see if they cant smuggle you raw eggs/fish/meat/veggie (hopefully they arent too poor quality) which you could prepare yourself, or atleast stick to a cooked paleo
its always amazing to me how intrinsically linked feating and dating/courting are. i see the whole showing someone you can take care of them by providing food but its kind of gross to me that now-a-days people end up in a restaurant, generally filling themselves on poor quality food+chemicals prepared like narcotics to be as addictive as possible..just getting bloated on additives
there is a huge industry that has to do with making restaurant food contain just enough sweet, salty, fat and sugar to really play with insulin and satiety receptors to make the food narcotic! also just the environment inside of restaurants is a planned barrage of smells to make you more hungry! yuck
It's fine, I think that's what shook me up a little, that he's being more immature than I'd thought.
With restaurants, I've definitely experienced that. Almost all the time, afterwards, we'd go home and sleep. Just yesterday, we went out, and I slept in the car on the way back. I couldn't stay awake. I've always felt like I needed to eat more too, even if I'm full. I usually can't eat a full restaurant dinner (excluding appetizers and dessert), either. So later on that night, I'll then pig out on the leftovers, and get a little fatter :/
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If a person enjoys reading, getting him to read "We Want to Live" by Aajonus Vonderplanitz is maybe the best rawist propaganda.
If he can cope with science, then "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Weston A. Price is the one - not all raw, but the best for showing the evil of bread.
I'll have to do so. (Ironically, about the bread, my step-brother is a professional baker. Way to support a family business XD )
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...If I ever planned on having kids, I've decided that it has to be with someone who's been RP for at least a year prior to conception. If I can't find her, then it's not worth it to have children. Seems kind of selfish, having learned how important RPD is for proper health and development and then choose to have a child with a SADer just b/c I want kids. I say better to hold out and hope to come across another RPDer. ....
I'm with you, man. It would be unethical of me, given what I know now, to have children with a woman who was not eating RPD or thereabouts. I would not curse my offspring in that way. Especially given the genetic tendencies in my extended family. That would be child abuse.
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I think one can be too rigid re this issue. It would be better to go for a health-oriented partner as such a partner would be much more likely to accept minor compromises such as eating raw sushi or sashimi or steak tartare in public or meats cooked only very very lightly etc.
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I'm with you, man. It would be unethical of me, given what I know now, to have children with a woman who was not eating RPD or thereabouts. I would not curse my offspring in that way. Especially given the genetic tendencies in my extended family. That would be child abuse.
Wait, unethical? child abuse? Don't you think you are taking this a bit too far? We were all born into familites eating cooked foods and large amounts of sweets and although we have suffered for quite some time, we have found a path to give us great health. Most of us are in very good health and would have probably been in excellent health if we were nourished since birth as we are now. Now we have an enormous advantage! We can start teaching our kids from the beginning to adpot a healthier diet and in turn they will teach their kids and so on.
I remember you attempting to make a bet not too long ago about someone's son whether or not they would be a genius with a certain IQ if they stayed raw paleo. I think this kids mother was not raw paleo either. So, even if you are willing to bet that you could father a genius son with probably better than average looks and athleticism too you wouldn't want to procreate with someone that isnt on rpd? Why stop at a recent convert to rpd? You can still go to the arctic and find an inuit woman who has 100's of generations of rpd under her belt and concieve a child with her.
Like you said the odds are with us regardless of whether the mother is rpd or not.
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Technically, the Inuit only eat some raw animal food(50%?) They also eat lots of cooked animal foods too. So, a better option would be to go to some RVAF diet commune/Primal Potluck etc.
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Wait, unethical? child abuse? Don't you think you are taking this a bit too far? We were all born into familites eating cooked foods and large amounts of sweets and although we have suffered for quite some time, we have found a path to give us great health. Most of us are in very good health and would have probably been in excellent health if we were nourished since birth as we are now. Now we have an enormous advantage! We can start teaching our kids from the beginning to adpot a healthier diet and in turn they will teach their kids and so on.
you kind of just made his point for him!
you have to remember that we are no different than any other animal in our desire to produce the most beautiful, substantial and healthiest offspring! the rarity of quality mate's who are educated enough to raise children in ideal condition(proper diet and environment) may be a hindrance to raw paleo dieters but i find no fault in being picky in the search and reluctance to settle....but maybe i just made your point because the fault would be never having a relationship with someone who does not totally meat the criteria and then never having the opportunity to educate them, reproduce and then make wonderful healthful offspring...
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There is no real answer to 'how to tell your loved ones what you eat'. We've chosen health over fitting into society.
I still worry about people coming over my house and seeing whats in my fridge (not much) I went out with a girl for a short while who I knew just wouldn't understand my diet but I was really attracted to her so I filled my fridge with about $30 worth of junk! hmm I wasn't sure if we were going anywhere anyway so held back on bringing up the raw stuff.
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Quote from: PaleoPhil on Yesterday at 09:44:40 PM
I'm with you, man. It would be unethical of me, given what I know now, to have children with a woman who was not eating RPD or thereabouts. I would not curse my offspring in that way. Especially given the genetic tendencies in my extended family. That would be child abuse.
....you wouldn't want to procreate with someone that isnt on rpd? Why stop at a recent convert to rpd? You can still go to the arctic and find an inuit woman who has 100's of generations of rpd under her belt and concieve a child with her.
Like you said the odds are with us regardless of whether the mother is rpd or not.
I thought I had covered that by writing "or thereabouts" and "given the genetic tendencies in my extended family." I don't think it is necessary to go to the extremes of procreating only "with a woman who has 100's of generations of rpd under her belt." For one thing, that would mean no procreation at all for most people.
Plus, as was pointed out, I don't have to find a woman who is already a RPDer. It could be a person who I persuaded to change her diet. I had a mate who wanted to have a child I could make clear that I would only have one if she ate mostly RPD and could explain why. Alternatively, we could decide to not have children.