Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum

Raw Paleo Diet to Suit You => Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach => Topic started by: Diana on December 21, 2009, 08:06:09 pm

Title: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: Diana on December 21, 2009, 08:06:09 pm
I just wonder how you break a fast on the zero carb diet. Or may be you no longer need to fast ;)
Do you go straight back into RAF, or do you start with some light foods like fruits, the usual thing?
I have always been taught never to break a fast with meat, so I just wonder how you do it?

Diana
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: carnivore on December 21, 2009, 08:24:43 pm
It's not much the food in itself, but the amount of food.
Maybe you can follow your feeling, but go easy...
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: Hannibal on December 21, 2009, 10:23:21 pm
It's very important to break fast with foods that digest easily and quickly. I think that raw egg yolks are very good, as they digest in 15 minutes. You can eat them with honey.
High-meat digests quite quickly so maybe it's also good after fast.
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: William on December 21, 2009, 10:32:53 pm
When I asked advice of the master faster, Dr. Bernarr (healself.org),,he asked what I normally eat - I said pemmican, and he said nothing, so I guess that pemmican is good for that purpose as well.

Probably anything raw that supplies all nutrients, which is raw fat meat. Not so sure of honey, as there is a danger of high blood sugar there.
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: Diana on December 22, 2009, 03:13:15 am
Thanks for all your replies, I got your points.

Diana
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: RawZi on December 22, 2009, 10:33:13 am
When I asked advice of the master faster, Dr. Bernarr (healself.org),,he asked what I normally eat - I said pemmican, and he said nothing, so I guess that pemmican is good for that purpose as well.

Probably anything raw that supplies all nutrients, which is raw fat meat. Not so sure of honey, as there is a danger of high blood sugar there.

    Is Dr Bernarr a fruitarian?
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: William on December 22, 2009, 05:15:15 pm
    Is Dr Bernarr a fruitarian?

Very doubtful, since he approved of pemmican, but you could ask him.
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: klowcarb on December 27, 2009, 10:35:44 am
I have been ZC for 9 months (pure ZC, never eating off plan). I combine ZC with the Warrior Diet/Fast-5, in that I eat one large meal a day in an eating window of 5pm - 10pm.
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: redfulcrum on January 03, 2010, 02:40:41 pm
I think meat is naturally easier for humans to digest.  Try eating some brocolli or cabbage raw and see how you feel.  I don't know about you, I never get indigestion or feeling stuffed from eating meat.  I fasted for 2 weeks and broke it eating a whole pizza.  Bad idea, crazy gas and hiccups for about 3 days 'til you get your digestion back. That wasn't caused by the amount of food but the types of food I decided to devour.  I don't know about all these fasting websites telling you to eat veggies after a fast.  To me, that's complete nonsense.  Back in paleo times, I doubt they ate little amounts of meat after making a kill.  Life was feast and famine back then.  Calorie intake should be chaotic, not some set daily regiment. 

Fasting is awesome, it's the only way I know to deal with my health problems.  I just love how my skin glows after a fast.  People compliment me on my skin all the time after a fast.  People will notice a difference.  You'll look like crap while you're fasting, but when it's over and you start eating again, that's when the magic happens.  Your body starts to rebuild itself, you feel and look younger.  Especially if you have diabetes like me.  Sometimes I'm so greatful that I am a diabetic, it forced me to learn how to take care of my body.  Now that I know about eating paleo and fasting, diabetes is a joke really.  I just wished others could see the light.  Humans were meant to be predators, period... not some domesticated animal eating fritos and mountain dew sitting around playing Xbox. 
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: RomanK on January 16, 2010, 07:39:05 am
Chan, I sent U e-mail, I got the same question
if braking fast with raw meat is OK from your
expirience?
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: William on January 16, 2010, 11:47:33 am
Life was feast and famine back then.  Calorie intake should be chaotic, not some set daily regiment. 



The available evidence indicates that life, including getting food, was easy.
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: TylerDurden on January 16, 2010, 05:37:01 pm
The available evidence indicates that life, including getting food, was easy.
 No the available evidence is that life was nasty, brutish and short. Despite your claims palaeo peoples didn't live as long as we do, had much higher infant-mortality and would die from a simple thing as a broken leg, given no means to repair such injuries.
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: Paleo Donk on January 16, 2010, 09:42:57 pm
How hard is it to get food today in the African Savannah? How the hell did Bear Grylls find a substantial amount of zebra flesh to eat that could sustain him for several days? Is there not an abundance of rotting animal carcasses around that we could scavenge with no tools whatsoever? I wonder if the scavenging meat was even easier in paleo times.
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: TylerDurden on January 16, 2010, 09:45:53 pm
How hard is it to get food today in the African Savannah? How the hell did Bear Grylls find a substantial amount of zebra flesh to eat that could sustain him for several days? Is there not an abundance of rotting animal carcasses around that we could scavenge with no tools whatsoever? I wonder if the scavenging meat was even easier in paleo times.
  Bear Grylls, as has been noted in previous threads, is a fraud. He was reported to have slept in hotels yet given the impression that he was sleeping in the wild. And there have been reports of staged shoots etc.

As for scavenged carcasses, wild animals tend to pounce on any carcasses available so that it's not necessarily all that easy to find a fresh, largely uneaten kill.
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: Ioanna on January 16, 2010, 09:50:02 pm
Is Bear Grylls the same person as "The Bear" that people have posted about?
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: TylerDurden on January 16, 2010, 09:51:29 pm
Is Bear Grylls the same person as "The Bear" that people have posted about?
  No, Bear Grylls is merely a British TV presenter who likes to do survivalist type documentaries where he eats live earthworms and the like.
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: Paleo Donk on January 16, 2010, 10:10:06 pm
I hope the thread doesnt detract from here, but Bear Grylls certainly is not a fraud. His show might not be a complete representation of what he does but a few cover-ups which may be deemed to hint at fraudulent actions does not make him for the rest of time a fraud.  I think it is more correct to say that his show has not been fully forthcoming and that the viewer needs to be aware that the chance of everything being as it is seen is lessened. Some of the things he does are absolutely incredible and the knowledge he dispenses is also very valuable whether its fed to him or not.

If I make a few bad posts,  it does not mean I am irrevocably damaged and that all my posts are going to be worthless just like Bear Grylls flaking out a few times does not mean everything else he does is an illusion.

This still doesn't tell me much about the random zebra he found, only that perhaps there is a greater than 0 chance that it was not put there by nature. I just watched the video again, about 80-90 percent of the zebra was eaten but there was still plenty left for a few people to survive the day with. It looks entirely real and so it makes me wonder how easily paleo man could have survived like this. Were there more animals to be scavenged in paleo times? And how good were they at scavenging?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRKpnkX99z0

Also to add of interest is that Grylls is almost always eating animals or insects and rarely plants. I can't actually recall him eating any plant matter. He eats a good proportion of them raw as well so in essence he is mainly raw paleo on his show.
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: TylerDurden on January 16, 2010, 10:28:33 pm
Rawpaleoforum is not too good a forum re search-engine it seems. At any rate, here is the article which started the whole thing :-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-470155/How-Bear-Grylls-Born-Survivor-roughed--hotels.html
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: William on January 17, 2010, 02:04:44 am
 No the available evidence is that life was nasty, brutish and short. Despite your claims palaeo peoples didn't live as long as we do, had much higher infant-mortality and would die from a simple thing as a broken leg, given no means to repair such injuries.

Here we go again...

Tons of evidence that life in the neolithic was and is nasty, brutish and short compared to the paleolithic. Otherwise we would not be trying to eat paleo.
You have never quoted credible evidence supporting your statement.

Note the remark by the archaeologist in charge of the Göbekli Tepe dig site, to the effect that the life of paleolithic man was leisurely compared to the grinding labour of the neolithic farmer.
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: TylerDurden on January 17, 2010, 09:17:08 pm
Here we go again...

Tons of evidence that life in the neolithic was and is nasty, brutish and short compared to the paleolithic. Otherwise we would not be trying to eat paleo.
You have never quoted credible evidence supporting your statement.

Note the remark by the archaeologist in charge of the Göbekli Tepe dig site, to the effect that the life of paleolithic man was leisurely compared to the grinding labour of the neolithic farmer.
 Actually, I've shown again and again that paleo life was nasty brutish and short. Here's a link describing high infant mortality in the Palaeolithic, lower lifespan vis-a-vis us(but not early Neolithic-era peoples) , the harshness of palaeo living etc.:-

http://www.beyondveg.com/nicholson-w/angel-1984/angel-1984-1a.shtml
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: William on January 17, 2010, 10:35:24 pm
 Actually, I've shown again and again that paleo life was nasty brutish and short. Here's a link describing high infant mortality in the Palaeolithic, lower lifespan vis-a-vis us(but not early Neolithic-era peoples) , the harshness of palaeo living etc.:-

http://www.beyondveg.com/nicholson-w/angel-1984/angel-1984-1a.shtml

Trollwork. Tries to show that absence of disease marks on bones implies death. Junk science at best.
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: TylerDurden on January 17, 2010, 10:37:14 pm
Trollwork. Tries to show that absence of disease marks on bones implies death. Junk science at best.
  Dear god, not that old chestnut claiming that palaeo tribesmen were practically immortal. But then, your being a creationist, I suppose that would be an inevitable belief.
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: William on January 18, 2010, 05:51:57 am
  Dear god, not that old chestnut claiming that palaeo tribesmen were practically immortal. But then, your being a creationist, I suppose that would be an inevitable belief.

Belief (in tall tales) is your shtick, not mine.

I will stay with the evidence.
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: PaleoPhil on January 18, 2010, 08:28:24 am
Quote from: William on January 15, 2010, 09:47:33 PM
The available evidence indicates that life, including getting food, was easy.

 No the available evidence is that life was nasty, brutish and short. Despite your claims palaeo peoples didn't live as long as we do, had much higher infant-mortality and would die from a simple thing as a broken leg, given no means to repair such injuries.

These are two extreme views and I think the evidence suggests the truth was somewhere in-between. The nasty, brutish and short quip is the number one criticism thrown at Paleo diets (and probably the number two criticism of RPD after the claim that eating raw meat is unhealthy due to bacteria & parasites), so I'll focus on that (besides, I doubt anyone takes seriously William's claims [inferences] that Paleolithic societies were utopias and the people immortal).

Tyler, why do you continue to repeat the favorite attack mantra of our critics? Quoting it repeatedly serves to undermine this forum more than just about anything anyone could do (talking about breastfeeding beyond a year or two or Weston Price doesn't come close and I've never seen anyone outside of you criticize Paleo dieters for those reasons) besides advocating tyranny or something else really extreme. This is truly bizarre. I've never seen a diet forum where one of it's leaders repeatedly quoted the favorite criticism used by its opponents. You dealt with it rather differently here:

1. NASTY, BRUTISH AND SHORT: STONE AGERS ONLY LIVED TO BE 30-40, SO THEY COULDN'T HAVE BEEN HEALTHY

"Palaeos had a mean age of 35 for men, 30 for women. This didn't mean they all died at those ages, mostly, it merely showed that that was the mean average lifespan, and the statistics reflect a high infant mortality, so that people who survived past infancy would have mostly lived much longer than  their thirties. Of course, the disadvantage of living in palaeo times was that one could easily die from a broken leg. However, proponents of palaeolithic diets do not want to wholly give up on the technology that humans have created since palaeo times, they just want to use it in a way that is not hamrful to them." -Tyler, http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/hot-topics/common-criticisms-directed-at-paleo-diet-proponents/msg23814/#msg23814

From that it looks like you were not claiming that food scarcity was the prime reason behind "nasty, brutish and short." Instead, you talked about high infant mortality and broken legs. Do you think food scarcity or diet were substantial factors in "nasty, brutish and short"? Do they indicate, like our critics suggest, that we should instead eat a neolithic diet?
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: William on January 18, 2010, 10:25:13 am
I doubt anyone takes seriously William's claims that Paleolithic societies were utopias and the people immortal

I made no such claims. I inferred  from the available evidence, which is bones. How could they possibly have worse than our society?
The Sumerian record is not a claim, it is a translation by Z Sitchin of a document written =>6,000 years ago by a scribe, probably copying an older document. Then again he may have been instructed to lie. We don't know.
The only claim I make is that the translation exists, and you may see it for yourself in a copy of the book. That makes it evidence.

I wish people would get a grip on the meaning of the word evidence. To me evidence is evident, not hearsay.

Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: PaleoPhil on January 18, 2010, 11:30:58 am
OK, inferences then.
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: TylerDurden on January 18, 2010, 06:18:52 pm

Tyler, why do you continue to repeat the favorite attack mantra of our critics? Quoting it repeatedly serves to undermine this forum more than just about anything anyone could do (talking about breastfeeding beyond a year or two or Weston Price doesn't come close and I've never seen anyone outside of you criticize Paleo dieters for those reasons) besides advocating tyranny or something else really extreme. This is truly bizarre. I've never seen a diet forum where one of it's leaders repeatedly quoted the favorite criticism used by its opponents.

I have a deep distrust of idealism, that's why. While I'm happy to accept that raw palaeolithic diets are healthy given mine and others' experiences, I also am prepared to accept that life in Palaeo times was not a paradise or necessarily even 100% ideal. One forgets that for much of the paleolithic era, hominids were still strongly subject to natural selection and related pressures. Stating that palaeo tribespeople were far more likely to die from simple injuries such as a broken leg is a fact, since their level of medical technology was somewhat lower than ours. Also, I fear that if there is too much of a rejection of modern technology because of RPD idealism, I think there might be consequences. I gave a recent example where an RPDer might go in for raw honey etc. to cure a rabies-infected bite instead of getting an anti-rabies injection.

Quote
From that it looks like you were not claiming that food scarcity was the prime reason behind "nasty, brutish and short." Instead, you talked about high infant mortality and broken legs. Do you think food scarcity or diet were substantial factors in "nasty, brutish and short"? Do they indicate, like our critics suggest, that we should instead eat a neolithic diet?
I don't think diet was negative, but food-scarcity seems highly likely. The notion among some wide-eyed palaeo idealists on paleofood was that palaeo HGs lived in a land of plenty with never having to do much re obtaining food, and that doesn't fit in with my experience of wild animals and their struggles for survival. And the only reason aneolithic diet can be justified nowadays is the vast population increase. I'm sure that with careful management of domesticated animals etc. that c. 3 billion could be sustainably fed on a healthy rawpalaeodiet.
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: William on January 18, 2010, 11:14:31 pm
I have a deep distrust of idealism, that's why.

The bones of paleoman are ideal. That's why try to eat like them.

Quote
One forgets that for much of the paleolithic era, hominids were still strongly subject to natural selection and related pressures.

That's evolution. The premise of this diet is the we did not evolve during the paleolithic. No need.

Quote
Stating that palaeo tribespeople were far more likely to die from simple injuries such as a broken leg is a fact, since their level of medical technology was somewhat lower than ours.

It is a fiction.  You are making stuff up out of nothing to support the stupid caveman obsession.


 
Quote
Also, I fear that if there is too much of a rejection of modern technology because of RPD idealism, I think there might be consequences. I gave a recent example where an RPDer might go in for raw honey etc. to cure a rabies-infected bite instead of getting an anti-rabies injection.

Fear mongering.
We reject modern medical technology because of actual personal in-your-face experience. Smarten up, TD, this is not idealism.

The bats presently hibernating in my attic all have rabies, according to  the government of Quebec, but it does not kill them, possibly because they eat raw zero carb (flying insects).
We don't know what would happen to a person who has been eating raw zero carb and gets rabies, but such people don't seem to get other diseases.


 
Quote
I don't think diet was negative, but food-scarcity seems highly likely. The notion among some wide-eyed palaeo idealists on paleofood was that palaeo HGs lived in a land of plenty with never having to do much re obtaining food, and that doesn't fit in with my experience of wild animals and their struggles for survival.

Your experience is neolithic.
You are making the same mistake as those historians who foolishly impose their own modern cultural experience on ancient peoples.


Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: TylerDurden on January 18, 2010, 11:43:07 pm
Rubbish, of course. And besides if you do believe that paleo bones were "ideal" then you should also follow other palaeo "ideals" such as cannibalism/human sacrifice etc., if you wish to remain consistent. And given our evolution from homo erectus to homo sapiens during palaeo times re plentiful scientiic evidence, your claims re evolution are just absurdly anti-palaeo.
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: William on January 19, 2010, 12:35:50 am
Where do you get this stuff about paleo  "cannibalism/human sacrifice" etc.?
I've never seen it, or read any one else quote it. Do you have a (secret) source?

And evolution during paleo times?
For such a startling claim, you need to quote a source or lose all credibility.
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: Paleo Donk on January 19, 2010, 02:55:45 am
William, I'm not sure I understand your whole belief that we never evolved during the paleolithic era. When was the last time you think we stopped evolving? Our gene expression has surely changed quite a bit in the last 150k years since I don't anything like an Asian or African.


Maybe you could leave out bowls of honey or sugar or other sweets in your attic and see if the bats die??
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: TylerDurden on January 19, 2010, 04:12:08 am
Where do you get this stuff about paleo  "cannibalism/human sacrifice" etc.?
I've never seen it, or read any one else quote it. Do you have a (secret) source?

And evolution during paleo times?
For such a startling claim, you need to quote a source or lose all credibility.
None so blind as they who will not see - you know damn well that I've previously posted endless sources re the above subjects. For other members, here are 2 articles(there are many many others on the web)) detailing cannibalism in the Palaeolithic era and details about evolution :-

http://archaeology.about.com/od/caterms/qt/cannibalism.htm

http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/Human%20Nature%20S%201999/neanderthal_cannibalism_at_moula.htm

http://www.stonepages.com/news/archives/002399.html

As for human evolution, there is ample evidence from the fossil record showing evolution of hominids from homo erectus all the way to cro-magnon man. There are too many bones of neanderthals etc. to beable to convincingly  refute it .
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: Ninacma on April 24, 2011, 11:27:18 pm
When I asked advice of the master faster, Dr. Bernarr (healself.org),,he asked what I normally eat - I said pemmican, and he said nothing, so I guess that pemmican is good for that purpose as well.

Probably anything raw that supplies all nutrients, which is raw fat meat. Not so sure of honey, as there is a danger of high blood sugar there.

This Dr Bernarr seems like a real loon. Did you see his advice for Down's Syndrome?

However, I am quite interested in the same questions as you are, as I am considering doing the same thing myself.

As for our forefathers living shorter, that's quite obvious why. Human beings have always been extremely violent - which is why we eliminated all of our hominid competitors. The "Peaceful Savage" myth is just that, a myth. Tribal folks have much higher rates of murder than we do. Also, living from hand to mouth is a very risky strategy. One mistake, and you're out. Not to mention hospitals. How many of us wouldn't be already dead if we didn't have hospitals? I think that moving away from hunting gathering was the very foundation for civilization, but disastrous for our health. That's just the way it is.
Title: Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
Post by: Blueknight on May 17, 2011, 10:13:46 pm
hello, I have experience with smalls fastings over all, thouth I also did a six days fasting once. It's very interesting how the body adapt to fasting in short times and feel full energy and in a long term (more than three days) feel so calm, in peace, but what I surprised was that my mind worked perfectly, in heavy ketosis. I think the best manner to break fasting is eating a medium heavy meal with a lot of protein but "digestion-friendly", low-average fat, zero carbs meal.

Excuse me if I make mistakes because English isn't my fist language.