Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Hot Topics => Topic started by: miles on December 24, 2010, 02:54:49 pm
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies
What do you guys think about rabies? Particularly if one was going to be living off of self-hunted genuinely wild-animals. There would be grey wolves around too.
"Rabid Meat. Because an animal that died from rabies would have a lot of virus in its system, it would be possible to get rabies from handling an infected animal. Cooking would of course kill the virus, but let’s say a wolf found a carcass. If the meat made it into the stomach, the acids would kill the virus also, but if the wolf had a cut on its lip, a lesion on the throat, or anywhere the virus could get access to a nerve, it is possible to contract rabies that way."
- http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/health/rabies.html
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Just as some humans can get partial genetic protection from malaria through thousands of generations, so am I sure that wild(but not domesticated ) animals have limited genetic protection to rabies. Anyway, it's a non-issue as many RVAFers have eaten raw wild game in quantity for years and years without issues like rabies.
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But humans can catch rabies? Im sure rabies aren't as wide spread as believed but its possible.
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Rabies infected animals generally would be symptomatic and so you could tell. However I suppose if the animal was in the beginning stages it might not be recognizable.
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Read those pages. Rabies can be asymptomatic for up to 2 years depending on where you contract the infection. It only becomes symptomatic once it reaches the brain.
The rabies apparently dies if you hang the animal for a few days at room temperature. The colder it is the longer the virus will survive.
In one of those pages I linked, a lab in the USA somewhere called for any road-kill to be brought in and tested for rabies, and 50% of the animals were rabid.
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I just remembered sully hunts some wild animals like squirrels and rabbits so he might know something about it.
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Wild humans and animals had eaten a plethora of rabid animals without any serious problems.
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In one of those pages I linked, a lab in the USA somewhere called for any road-kill to be brought in and tested for rabies, and 50% of the animals were rabid.
I remember tyler support road kill but you say 50% of it is infected? so road kill or wild animals are good or not good to eat Im confused!
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I remember tyler support road kill but you say 50% of it is infected? so road kill or wild animals are good or not good to eat Im confused!
Look, if countless RVAFers have eaten tons of raw wild game for years and years without any problems, then one can safely assume there is no danger. As for the lab comment re rabies, that is physically impossible. I mean, rabies is supposed to be fatal, and by now we would have heard about it in the media much more if 50 percent of wild animals were infected regularly and died.
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If a rabid animal's body fluids get into your blood then you'll get rabies. Through a cut, through your eye, through your reproductive orifice, etc..
There is no way to guarantee that any dead animal did or did not have rabies without a brain test. During the rabies enzootic experiment in eastern Ontario, about 50% of the road-killed foxes we received were rabid! About the same percentage of animals with quills were rabid. Several animals with quills were young and likely very hungry; one was 10 ½ years old (Methuselah for foxes). Many road kills were also young and inexperienced. Better to err on the side of caution.
- http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/health/rabies.html
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You're right, Miles. It could happen to you. or me. or anyone else.
But, the simple truth is that it could also happen that when I get in my car next time and drive to town, I could get killed along the way. Is that going to stop me from getting into my car? No. I want to go to town more than I'm worried about being killed doing it.
The same goes for eating wild meat. You'll have to make your own decision about it. I don't have to eat road kill or wild meat right now because I have plenty of meat without it. But I fully expect a time in the future when I might have to hunt in order to eat. I'm damned well not going to worry about rabies when that time comes because I'll be a whole lot more concerned about getting enough to eat.
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If a rabid animal's body fluids get into your blood then you'll get rabies. Through a cut, through your eye, through your reproductive orifice, etc..
- http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/health/rabies.html
Sounds like a rubbish claim since rabies is routinely said to only occur if an animal bites you.
I am always wary of bogus claims that wild animals are infested with dangerous diseases. These are always hysteria-driven PR-inspired articles originating from the farming industry who basically want as many wild animals removed/killed in the countryside, solely because they paranoidly believe that wild animals are pests which are a threat to crops and domesticated animals. A classic example of this was the extreme hysteria about the mythical threat of TB to cattle from wild badgers in the UK, a while back.
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That's dumb. You can eat wild meat and take precautions to avoid getting rabies at the same time. You get in your car, but you look where you're going and try to drive safely, you don't drive with a blindfold on.
Sounds like a rubbish claim since rabies is routinely said to only occur if an animal bites you.
I am always wary of bogus claims that wild animals are infested with dangerous diseases. These are always hysteria-driven PR-inspired articles originating from the farming industry who basically want as many wild animals removed/killed in the countryside, solely because they paranoidly believe that wild animals are pests which are a threat to crops and domesticated animals. A classic example of this was the extreme hysteria about the mythical threat of TB to cattle from wild badgers in the UK, a while back.
Rabies is most concentrated in the brain and the salivary glands of a symptomatic animal, but it spreads to all the organs of infected animals.
One point on the roadkill thing though: Rabid animals have less self-control, so they could be more likely to end up as road-kill.
Also: There's no reported resevoir of land-rabies in the UK or Australia, only in bats, and the occasional times an animal gets infected by a bat. Everywhere else there's resevoirs of rabies in land animals.
Of course wild animals become infested with dangerous diseases. Not the healthy ones. Lots of wild animals get these diseases, but they die from them.
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Rabies is most concentrated in the brain and the salivary glands of a symptomatic animal, but it spreads to all the organs of infected animals.
But how you're gonna detect this infection?
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But how you're gonna detect this infection?
A symptomatic rabid animal would appear unwell, would walk oddly and stuff. Also if you leave a rabid animal dead for a few days it can become safe I think, depending on the temperature. In the cold the infection could remain for years after death, but when it's warm only a few days.
Cooking would also neutralise it, but your stomach acid would too same anyway. So it's really the general handling of it which is dangerous, not the eating specifically. If you eat raw rabid meat wearing a protective suit, and you have no cuts inside your digestive tract prior to the meat reaching the stomach acid you should be fine anyway.
If an animal is infected but not symptomatic(hasn't reached the brain) I don't know how you'd tell. Maybe the chance of being infected by eating it really would be negligible.
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A symptomatic rabid animal would appear unwell, would
Cooking would also neutralise it, but your stomach acid would too same anyway. So it's really the general handling of it which is dangerous, not the eating specifically. If you eat raw rabid meat wearing a protective suit, and you have no cuts inside your digestive tract prior to the meat reaching the stomach acid you should be fine anyway.
I agree.
But the stomach acid shouldn't be diltuted by some plant foods or water while eating the infected meat. It's very important.
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So it's really the general handling of it which is dangerous, not the eating specifically. If you eat raw rabid meat wearing a protective suit, and you have no cuts inside your digestive tract prior to the meat reaching the stomach acid you should be fine anyway.
The above, absurd comments re wearing a protective suit are frighteningly reminiscent of a few past members who had similiar orthorexia and OCD.
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The above, absurd comments re wearing a protective suit are frighteningly reminiscent of a few past members who had similiar orthorexia and OCD.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
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? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Oh come on! Suggesting that people wear a protective suit when eating or cutting up raw wild game? that's just hysteria-driven. I mean, not even SAD-eating hunters could take such extreme advice seriously.
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Where I used to live the vast majority would live for the most part on meat they got from the land; caribou, moose, fish, ptarmigan, geese, partridge etc. Not so much for fiscal reasons as there was no unemployment in town but because this was how they grew up.
In the process of cleaning the animals after the hunt, some of the guys would get serious infections and in some cases life threatening issues, from the process. Some would have their hands balloon up with infections. Whether this was from rabies or other blood borne diseases is hard to know. They simply knew they were susceptible and wore gloves.
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That protective suit is indeed a stupid idea.
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Oh come on! Suggesting that people wear a protective suit when eating or cutting up raw wild game? that's just hysteria-driven. I mean, not even SAD-eating hunters could take such extreme advice seriously.
I didn't say anything of the sort. Read again. You start too many arguments based on mis-reading posts.
The mention of a protective suit was hypothetical.
You can apparently get rabies through any cut, through your eye, through sexual intercourse with a rabies-infected person, etc.. but not from eating rabid meat unless you have miniature cuts inside your upper digestive tract/lips/fingers etc.
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Whether this was from rabies or other blood borne diseases is hard to know. They simply knew they were susceptible and wore gloves.
Over a half a year ago I've been infected with Erysipeloid of Rosenbach (I've cut myself in the palm with the bone). I recovered in about 2 weeks without using any drugs.
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I didn't say anything of the sort. Read again. You start too many arguments based on mis-reading posts.
The mention of a protective suit was hypothetical.
You can apparently get rabies through any cut, through your eye, through sexual intercourse with a rabies-infected person, etc.. but not from eating rabid meat unless you have miniature cuts inside your upper digestive tract/lips/fingers etc.
I've eaten raw wild game a number of times when I had bleeding fingers(due to every now and then puncturing myself just before with an oyster-knife while opening raw oysters etc.) and never got rabies or any other infection - so I can be reasonably certain that the chances of infection re rabies or anything else is so negigible as to be easily ignored.
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I've eaten raw wild game a number of times when I had bleeding fingers(due to every now and then puncturing myself just before with an oysteer-knife while opening raw oysters etc.) and never got rabies or any other infection - so I can be reasonably certain that the chances of infection re rabies or anything else is so negigible as to be easily ignored.
As I said already, there's no known rabies in the UK or Australia, except for in bats. Everywhere else in the world there is. Also, most hunters know what to look for to see that an animal is healthy anyway. If they're planning on selling it they certainly do.
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except for in bats.
BTW, has anyone of you eaten a bat?
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As I said already, there's no known rabies in the UK or Australia, except for in bats. Everywhere else in the world there is. Also, most hunters know what to look for to see that an animal is healthy anyway. If they're planning on selling it they certainly do.
Even taking the bit re rabies in the UK into account, I should have been infected a dozen times by now from other diseases such as TB etc., yet have never gotten them. And RVAFers eating plenty of raw wild game in other parts of the world where rabies is present, have also never had issues with rabies.
Now, maybe I do have a chance of getting some sort of illness, but the chances are more or less at the same level as the chance of being killed by a car.
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Even taking the bit re rabies in the UK into account, I should have been infected a dozen times by now from other diseases such as TB etc., yet have never gotten them. And RVAFers eating plenty of raw wild game in other parts of the world where rabies is present, have also never had issues with rabies.
Now, maybe I do have a chance of getting some sort of illness, but the chances are more or less at the same level as the chance of being killed by a car.
You have less chance of being killed by a car if you respect the threat.
Anyway, infected animals are not likely to make it to you if you're buying from someone else. They usually wouldn't live for long, and would show signs of their illness which the hunter and the seller would likely check for.
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I have been in four accidents in cars in my life. One of them was caused by the person driving - not me. The other three were caused by other cars with no chance whatsoever of avoiding it, since the person was coming from behind. Two of the accidents resulted in a roll over. One resulted in my car exploding. No, I disagree that you can "respect the threat" and therefore, avoid it. I do not believe the analogy I made was "dumb" as you suggested.
I do however, think it is dumb to bring up the question if you really don't think it's a problem and you're only being hypothetical.
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I do however, think it is dumb to bring up the question if you really don't think it's a problem and you're only being hypothetical.
?? What question? Please actually read what I've written before you comment on it.
"Name: miles
Posts: leet (2.751 per day)
Position: Mammoth Hunter
Date Registered: August 29, 2009, 05:19:43 PM
Last Active: Today at 07:36:41 PM"
OMG. 1337 posts!? w00t
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Look, if countless RVAFers have eaten tons of raw wild game for years and years without any problems, then one can safely assume there is no danger. As for the lab comment re rabies, that is physically impossible. I mean, rabies is supposed to be fatal, and by now we would have heard about it in the media much more if 50 percent of wild animals were infected regularly and died.
What if the animal is carrying the virus?? like people who dont have HIV but carry it so when they have sex with someone the someone get it?? just theory.
In my opinion this HIV example very suits this thread so I have another question/theory.
Lets say 1 guy carrys HIV virus and someone eats him doesnt matter who human(canibalism) or animal, of course raw.
Will that organism who ate the guy get HIV ??? same with rabbies ?
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What if the animal is carrying the virus?? like people who dont have HIV but carry it so when they have sex with someone the someone get it?? just theory.
In my opinion this HIV example very suits this thread so I have another question/theory.
Lets say 1 guy carrys HIV virus and someone eats him doesnt matter who human(canibalism) or animal, of course raw.
Will that organism who ate the guy get HIV ??? same with rabbies ?
No, as HIV transmits via blood.
And, like I said, if an animal was carrying the rabies virus, hunters etc. would be fine as long as they weren't bitten by the animal.
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And, like I said, if an animal was carrying the rabies virus, hunters etc. would be fine as long as they weren't bitten by the animal.
How do you know that?
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What if the animal is carrying the virus?? like people who dont have HIV but carry it so when they have sex with someone the someone get it?? just theory.
It's contradictory :D
You probably meant that someone hasn't got AIDS, but has got HIV.
The connection between AIDS and HIV hasn't never been proven, btw.
You can carry many types of bacteria and virus and BE FINE.
Roughly a third of the world's population has been infected with Mycobacterium tuberculosis. So what?
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How do you know that?
Because every report re rabies infections mentions only the bite aspect as being dangerous, and discounts any other dangers. No b*ll about being wary of handling raw wild game with a protective suit or whatever nonsense. If rabies really could be transmitted by other methods, in the past few millenia we would have had hunters being warned against hunting any strange-looking animal and such-like.
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No b*ll about being wary of handling raw wild game with a protective suit or whatever nonsense.
I don't care if you like it up the bum.
Because every report re rabies infections mentions only the bite aspect as being dangerous, and discounts any other dangers.
No... Anyone known to have come into contact with even deceased rabid animals are given shots against it, and anyone involved in rabies will say that you can get it from any part of a rabid animal. Even people who've come into contact with the person who's come into contact the the rabid animal are given rabies shots.
If you're going to argue your own ideas, you can't just deny something which is FACT or it makes you look like a dick. Whether or not you can get rabies from anything other than the bite, 'every report re rabies infections' would certainly say that you can.
Even if you are right that you can only get rabies from the bite, it is a FACT that any 'rabies expert' will say that it is dangerous to handle any part of an animal which had rabies.
If rabies really could be transmitted by other methods, in the past few millenia we would have had hunters being warned against hunting any 'strange-looking animal and such-like'.
They are warned about handling 'strange-looking animal and such-like'.
I don't even know if anyone has ever got rabies without being bitten, but officials say that one can, and you are denying this. If you want to say the officials and experts are wrong that's ok, as they're wrong on many things, but to deny that they say this is just wrong.
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There is a big difference between mindless health-and-safety-oriented leaflets and similiar gimmicks and what hunters actually take care about. I mean, there are morons still on government panels who warn against the retarded mercury-in-fish notions despite the fact that the science behind the anti-mercury hysteria has been extensively debunked.
Judging from the data, rabies is overwhelmingly obtained via bites. There is all sorts of further discussion about the very unlikely prospect of being bitten by an animal which has just licked its paws with its own saliva and then scratched you or even an event where the rabies virus somehow infects a man's nasal passages via the animal's saliva (I believe it was mentioned in 1 article that this requires a small, enclosed area with minimal air or some such nonsense).
The main thing, which is relevant to hunters cutting up corpses after killing, is that rabies is not transmitted by contact with urine, feces, blood, or scent glands:-
http://www.ct.gov/dep/cwp/view.asp?A=2723&Q=325944
Hunters routinely cut off the heads anyway before sale. I mean, I suppose there is a vanishingly microscopic chance that a hunter does not notice that an animal is rabid(re foam on jaws etc.) , then in the process of removing flesh from the jaw(!) gets a cut in the process and touches the cut to the teeth, but the chance is so vanishingly small it can be disregarded.
Another point is that rabies is confined mostly to specific species. You mentioned bats in the UK, but Florida for example has rabies appearing primarily in raccoons, skunks, foxes, and bats, none of which are regularly known to be hunted for their meats by hunters:-
http://pelotes.jea.com/rabies.htm
Well, I suppose there will always be a loony fringe in the RVAF diet world who will preach against mythical "threats" like mercury-in-fish, "high-meats" or the supposed dangers of raw wild game re rabies. Pity, since many newbies usually find that they in fact benefit the most from raw wildcaught seafood, raw wild game and aged, raw meats.