Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Health => Topic started by: Techydude on January 29, 2011, 08:08:42 pm
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Well I was really concerned about this. For years soap has caused me dry skin and I read into bathing without soap to keep your body's natural oil production , ph, and bacteria in check and have gone without it for months with great results.
However, I continue to use soap to wash my hands out of the fear of getting sick. It does make me wonder, how did hunter gatherers live without soap yet lived such prosperous lives? Immune system? Healthy food? Who knows.
Though it is noteworthy that we don't wash our meats and vegetables in soap and they could carry potential pathogens yet they don't! :)
So is soap necessary and has anyone gone without soap without catching say polio or the flu/swine flu or mrsa, etc? Though it is noteworthy that we don't wash our meats and vegetables in soap and they could carry potential pathogens yet they don't! :)
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Well, I think it is essential to wash hands with soap after use of the bathroom. :o :o I mean, I am not so low as to shake someone's hand after visiting the toilet for a dump without washing my hands beforehand.
I also wash my body with soap once a day when using the bath. I recall my father stating that Australian acquaintances of his told him that wallowing in one's dirt instead of using a shower was disgusting, but I'm not so bothered, and the use of soap doesn't seem to harm me. I do draw the line at using shampoo(except once a year, perhaps).
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Oh sure of course I wash my hands after say taking a dump lol. I'm still currently using soap atm but i'm questioning it. I always questions things when I think back to our prehistoric ancestors.
It does make sense to ask - how did our paleo ancestors live without soap?
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Of course soap is not necessary, but it is the civilized way. Modern life is full of pollution and grime that never existed in paleo times so I will use soap if I have actual dirt and grime to wash off, but then once a day I will rub some oil into my hands, It conditions the skin very well, I actually have been using beef tallow recently because I have ran out of coconut oil.
The primary warning I will give to everyone is to avoid public restroom soaps and any soaps labled anti bacterial, It has been known for years that the antibacterial agents contained in these soaps can soak through the skin and act as hormone disruptor's.
Triclocan was literally the main ingredient to everything in my jail care pack(smells like conspiracy to cull the criminal class to me), if you ever get locked up beware of the sterilization products, These chemicals make men less than men hormonally , and even in small amounts should not be trusted. Just look it up.
Endocrine disruption
A 2006 study concluded that low doses of triclosan act as an endocrine disruptor in the North American bullfrog.[31] The hypothesis proposed is that triclosan blocks the metabolism of thyroid hormone, because it chemically mimics thyroid hormone, and binds to the hormone receptor sites, blocking them, so that normal hormones cannot be used. Triclosan has also been found in both the bile of fish living downstream from waste water processing plants and in human milk.[32] The negative effects of triclosan on the environment and its questionable benefits in toothpastes[33] has led to the Swedish Naturskyddsföreningen to recommend not using triclosan in toothpaste.[34] Another 2009 study demonstrated that triclosan exposure significantly impacts thyroid hormone concentrations in the male juvenile rats.[35]
So if it screws up the thyroid hormonal concentration of juvenile rats then does anyone want to lather up in it after every bathroom visit.
They put this shit in our soaps and people bath their children in it daily, I know parents who will wash their kids hands in antibacterial soaps many times daily as well as a bath with it. Males are being culled chemically and not very many people these days are able to reach their hormonal peaks because of issues like exposure to hormone disrupting chemicals. The chemicals in soap may not be a primary concern, but should be viewed as icing on the cake of the chemical bombardment that is going on.
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Oh sure of course I wash my hands after say taking a dump lol. I'm still currently using soap atm but i'm questioning it. I always questions things when I think back to our prehistoric ancestors.
It does make sense to ask - how did our paleo ancestors live without soap?
Well, I suppose they used special herbs to scent their bodies or used some similiar equivalent to soap, perhaps? But even if not, I don't think we ought to emulate everything done in palaeo times, such as human sacrifice, cannibalism or not washing with soap.
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Ketozancole (NIZORAL) shampoo will drop your testosterone for a few days.
I don't wash with soap much and never use deodorant, I got told I smell really nice the other day by a girl at the shops, she said a mixture of testosterone and some other thing. I get served by her a fair bit.
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Soap is not at all necessary. In fact I would say it was bad. What benefit does soap have? It's just a block of toxic chemicals and irritants. If you wash your hands with soap and then go handle meat to eat then you will eat some of these toxins along with it. Not to mention, like sabertooth said, the stuff that gets absorbed through the skin.
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Hmm I have considered washing my hands with fresh lemon juice. I've tried vinegar but the smell never comes off D:
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I just wash my hands with water. There's no need to worry about bacteria. There's loads of bacteria in our food anyway, it does us more good than harm. That's why many people here eat high meat. So why worry about bacteria on our hands?
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Yeah vinegar does stick around. How about bicarb of soda? that works quite well.
Soap removes the oily acidic protective layer that stops viruses and stuff. Maybe soap is worse than nothing?
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True soap does kill the good bacteria layer of the skin. But baking soda is worrying as the skin is acidic and it stops bacteria by making the skin basic which is unnatural and i've had basic burn on my underarms and balls(lol) when trying to use it as a deodorizer...
But it is worrysome if lemon juice or vinegar would kill the beneficial bacteria there. But the question is if my hands were covered with fecal matter and I were to just wash them in water and eat something would I still get sick?
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Quite possibly. After all what comes out the other end sometimes involves toxins of one sort or another, so it would not be a good idea to try that.
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We buy "organic" soap.
I wash my hands with some soap before I eat.
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Soapnuts anyone? I use them for washing my hair. Wash my hands with water only most of the time. Only when really necessary I use soap, which is rare.
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I haven't used soap for about 7 or 8 years now, apart from the occasional use of an olive oil soap on my hair, which I predominantly just rinse with lemon juice. Wash my hands with water after using the loo. In the mornings I do a vigorous skin brush - face and body - this cleans away all the dead skin and some dirt, improves circulation to the skin and allows skin to breathe and perspire freely. Face and eyes get rinsed with cold water. I only shower every second evening or so, as I swim most days anyway. A vigorous rub or scrub in the shower gets most of the dirt off (and scrubbing brushes can feel quite invigorating too!). Use a scrub of ground aduki beans (grind them myself) on my face. Use a water-based cream containing natural plant oils on my face only.
I would say my skin is in excellent condition, looks clean and fresh, no problems with body odours, break outs or anything. Face is clear. And apart from the occasional cold, haven't ever had any scary 'sicknesses' that could be caused by bad bacteria!
As little soap as possible would be my recommendation for healthy skin and healthy bacterial balance on the skin. Use a scrubbing brush with water if your hands are really dirty (no suggestions for mechanics, since I don't really ever have that sort of grease on my hands!). Or scrub with lemon skin or even a half lemon. And remember SUNLIGHT. I can't remember the details or where I read it, but apparently it is a wonderful skin cleanser (in terms of ridding the skin of the bacteria that contribute to odours if I remember correctly).
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I try not to use much soap but if I get high meat on my hands it wont just rinse off so I have to use something if its on a work day.
I have just recently been using beef tallow as hand and body lotion due to running out of coconut oil, I think it works well as a skin conditioner and could be used as a inexpensive way to battle winter dryness, just rub it into the skin and after a few minuets rinse it of with hot water and your hands will be soft hydrated and clean, although some may not like the beef fat aroma. It is much thicker than any lotion so may not be pleassent to leave on, but it does leave a protective coating on the skin. I heard that some Native Americans used bear grease and alligator grease as a skin protectant and bug repellent. The Greeks would oil themselves in olive oil and scrape it off with a blade to stay clean.
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I try not to use much soap but if I get high meat on my hands it wont just rinse off so I have to use something if its on a work day.
heh, yeah to the natural hygiene guys...basically some shit just will not wash off with water. This includes potentially: air pollution and other stuff in your skin. For me unfortunately its often far less natural chemicals and things which require soap.
I don't shower with soap daily. If I lived in a pure environment and and only bathed in well or filtered water, I wouldn't ever use soap. I could use my own feces as a condiment and never worry about getting ill. The issue for me is other people. Other people prefer me to not have meat slime and other such things on my hands and mouth, so I wash them with soap or whatever. I try to use clean soaps at home but will use other soaps at work or at the gym. Not something I stress about either way. There are some people that believe until you remove ALL 'toxins' from your foods and skin and water that your body doesn't heal properly or whatever..but I have alot of anecdotal evidence saying otherwise. Seems like just one more thing in the atmosphere to obsess over.
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Well, I suppose they used special herbs to scent their bodies or used some similiar equivalent to soap, perhaps?
Like what?
What do you use for soap?
But even if not, I don't think we ought to emulate everything done in palaeo times, such as human sacrifice, cannibalism or not washing with soap.
Agreed, we shouldn't re-enact blindly.
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Like what?
What do you use for soap?
Well, there is relatively unprocessed coconut oil etc. for soap.
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The issue for me is other people. Other people prefer me to not have meat slime and other such things on my hands and mouth, so I wash them with soap or whatever.
Lol, who gives a shit what they think? And when have other people commented about meat slime?
(http://www.frumpzilla.com/image_gallery/Herschel-Walker-chicken-wings.jpg)
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Well, there is relatively unprocessed coconut oil etc. for soap.
OK, thanks, what are some of the etceteras? Any ideas on the similiar equivalents to soap that Stone Agers might have used?
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What about lemon juice or just forgoing anything and hoping on your immune system and your skins ph and bacterial balance?
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OK, thanks, what are some of the etceteras? Any ideas on the similiar equivalents to soap that Stone Agers might have used?
Haven't done any real research on this yet, except for coconut oil, tea-tree-oil and baking soda. But I am sure there are other possibilities.
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Thanks Tyler. One occurred to me--cleansing mud. So do you use coconut oil or what?
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Thanks Tyler. One occurred to me--cleansing mud. So do you use coconut oil or what?
No, I just use normal soap, but I check the ingredients list and choose those which seem more natural than the rest.
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Personally I believe washing with soap is necessary because we live in a age of "chemicals" (technically everything is a chemical but here I mean, industrially produced) and ingesting and getting in contact with these is harmful in a cumulative way.
As far as food bacteria goes, IMO, you can get sick. I dropped a piece of meat on the kitchen floor once for a brief instant and I picked it up immediately. When I ate it, later I became pretty ill for a day or two.
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I wouldn't eat anything dropped on the floor of my house... Tons of horrible stuff down there.
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I view such phobias as absurd. I have often eaten something I previously dropped on the street floor by accident.
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I only ever use soap if I have a load of grease on my hands and it won't come off.
I've never had any problems, but I never bothered about it since I was a kid so maybe I've got immunities.
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I haven't used soap in a month since my previous post and my hands have been rubbing in the floor and dirt (washed with water only) and i've been fine. No problems.
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I've got to cast one more vote for no soap. I don't ever use the stuff except, out of consideration for others while working at my restaurant job. But even then I only do it cursory and if I'm able I'll do gloves instead. That is 3 yrs now without the shit and I don't miss it at all. If I ever have fats or things that wont wash off then all I do is check for the most natural solvents, or if the fat is something I don't mind eating (typically the case) then I'll just lick it off my fingers and then wash. Natural solvents for me are vinegar, lemon, lime (though I prefer not to waste food items such as these on cleaning) OR another option is to use something abrasive like paper towel, or better a cloth.
Then again I don't typically do high meat unless some of my meat sits for too long.
If you use soap though, on anything more than a couple times a week basis, your skin will most likely suffer. Your skin and hair have a natural oil balance, and if you upset it too often, you'll pay the price.
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I view such phobias as absurd. I have often eaten something I previously dropped on the street floor by accident.
I've eaten rabbit meat where there has been rabbit shit on it, and I'd eat something I dropped on the floor in the woods...
On my floor there is man-made stuff.
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How much will a dropped thing pick up though, compared to all the crap we live around and breathe every day anyway. I say bollocks to it.
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I'm curious--not trying to be critical or corrective--is it a UK-thing to call the ground or a street "the floor"? I hadn't heard that usage here in the USA, but I've noticed it on the Internet. I was familiar with UK folks calling a soccer/football field/pitch "the carpet" (as in "keep it on the carpet"), which I like and which is particularly appropriate in the case of artificial turf. Is that another aspect of the same usage?
What do you all think about washing with alternatives to soap, like cleansing mud, sand, leaves, coconut oil, suet, tallow, baking soda or another option you might suggest?
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Salt does actually help get grease off now I come to think of it as it's abrasive.
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Salt does actually help get grease off now I come to think of it as it's abrasive.
Washing your hands with cold water and then drying on a full-bodied towel gets the grease off.
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What if you've been eating raw fish and you have fish smell on your hands or you've been working on your car and have oil, dirt and grease on your hands or you were helping a friend clean a spill of toxic chemicals in their garage and got some on you?
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Rubber gloves are not always acceptable or tough enough when getting greasy but a great way to make grease come off easy is to pre oil your hands with with olive oil or the like. Baking soda will then help scrub 98% of what's there.
I use baking soda to wash my hair once a week or so, depending sometimes a touch hippy dippy shampoo too.
About the only soap I use anymore is Grandpa's pine tar soap. I've only used the bar, but it's great stuff and even medicinal if you have skin issues. Not overly drying but I still only use it on the stinky parts. And it doesn't smell of synthetic flowers...more like a campfire.
http://www.grandpabrands.com/pinetar1280.html
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What if you've been eating raw fish and you have fish smell on your hands or you've been working on your car and have oil, dirt and grease on your hands or you were helping a friend clean a spill of toxic chemicals in their garage and got some on you?
Yeh, that's your excuse. What have you really been doing?
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Yes, Soap washing is necessary, as you all are saying that by using soap you skin became dry. I suggest you that, choose a soap which protect your skin from getting dry.
http://www.chefsecrets.info/tips
Are you gonna spam in every thread?? Can someone adress this situation please...
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Banning is a real pain but I'll do this one.
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Banning is a real pain but I'll do this one.
Much appreciated.
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The only times I ever use any sort of soap is to wash my hands at work everyday after touching money.. because I deal with a lot of money and money disgusts me, think of how many of the ones you touch have been through a strip bar! ugh, gross, and I also keep food in my car to eat when I get hungry so that I'm not as tempted to eat pizza at work, since I work at domino's, and I don't want to touch and eat my food after touching money, without first washing my hands.. and I also use soap to wash my hair every other day or so, but only because I have very oily hair, and it doesn't look good if I only wash it with water.
Coincidentally, the only places my skin ever gets dry is on the back of my hands and on my scalp. I don't use body wash in the shower at all, because I hate how lotion feels, and soap dries out my skin to needing lotion.. I'd rather have the natural oils of my skin instead. Well, I'd also rather have the natural oils in my hair, too, but my hair looks dirty when it gets all oily when washing it without soap. However, I have been searching for soaps that contain no chemicals, and only contain natural ingredients.. I found a couple of soaps, one is a sandlewood bar soap I got from whole foods that has no chemicals, although I don't like how it makes my skin and hair feel, and the other is a liquid soap I got from my organics store that the only chemical it contains is potassium hydroxide, the rest of the ingredients are all fruit and flower oil extracts.. that one doesn't lather up very much though.
But for my hands, I have to use the liquid soap they have at the sink, and the back of my hands had been getting very dry.. until I started rubbing the oil from my raw cheese onto the back of my hand, and then it went away, and I also try to use soap less.
Otherwise, I just wash with water.. even brush my teeth with only water, and shave with only water..
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Here's a tip. If you shit on your hands, wash them.
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I work as a nurse right now, and I'm sure you all know how the "health"care industry is about handwashing LOL. I use my own castile soap in a little spray bottle instead of thier antibacterial crap, and never use those nasty alcohol sanitizers (besides, they make your hands feel even MORE dirty and sticky!)
I probably wash my hands a lot less than the other nurses, but I do randomly throughout my shift, plus after doing anything "dirty", after using the bathroom, before eating etc. I'm not scared of germs, but there is some NASTY %$#&* that grows in a hospital/nursing home environment! I don't think nature ever intended for a large amount of very sick people to live in close, indoor quarters for a long period of time...:-S
Can't WAIT to quit this job!!!!!
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Here's a tip. If you shit on your hands, wash them.
um thanks for that illuminating bit off rhetoric.
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um thanks for that illuminating bit off rhetoric.
My pleasure.
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The back of my hands started getting really badly dry lately and I have stopped using soap on my hands at all whatsoever, even after the toilet. I haven't gotten sick from eating anything directly after the bathroom, and if I'm at home I don't even wash with water.. however, I do use a large amount of toilet paper to prevent anything from getting on my hands, plus most of the time the toilet paper comes up clean anyways. And after re-reading this thread and reading about the way soap can off-balance hormones, I don't think I ever want to use regular soap again.
When I do wash my hands, which is usually only at work, but very often at work, I just take my time washing my hands with water for a long time until my hands feel clean, and then also scrub them with paper towels afterwards, and they always feel clean. I also only shower once a week now, sometimes twice, but more often only once a week.. which is the only time I ever use soap, though I only wash my hair with it, and I only use the sandlewood bar soap that I got from whole foods. the ingredients for it are:
Saponified palm oil, water, fragrance, natural mineral pigments, butyrospermum parkii [shea butter], olea eurpaea [olive] fruit oil.
and that's it. I haven't been able to find any soap with any less amount of chemicals or ingredients in it, though I haven't checked every single soap out there, but I'll check other soaps when this one runs out. I also don't use tooth paste and will avoid using deodorant when I can, although when showering once a week only sometimes I have to, but I use some organic aluminum free stuff, and half the time I forget to use it anyways. I've never had anyone complain to me about smell, but then I also don't stand too close/near to other people very often either. My hair still does get very oily, but at work I am required to wear a hat so no one really sees it. My lips have also been dry lately so I bought some organic lip balm, ingredients being:
Organic safflower seed oil, organic beeswax, organic vanilla oil, organic lemon balm, organic comfrey, organic calendula mixed tocopherols, organic licorice root, organic lemon oil.
other than that, I avoid all chemicals like the plague, and I refuse to touch any of the sanitizers at my work. I don't eat high meat though, so I don't have to worry about getting that smell off..
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My son goes to a democratic school were all are involved in making the school rules. He often spends all day playing in the dirt making huts and stuff and can get quite dirty. Once I asked him to wash his hands since they were dirty and he simply started licking the dirt off! He is very healthy and rarely gets sick. He also rarely wears shoes. It makes sense that unpolluted dirt is good for our immune systems. If you had man made chemicals on your hands then washing them with soap is very important. I put coconut oil on my hands as a kind of barrier against chemicals and to stop them drying out from washing.