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Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Off Topic => Topic started by: wodgina on May 28, 2011, 06:02:05 pm

Title: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on May 28, 2011, 06:02:05 pm
Looks like Greece is a world of hurt and Gold is up.

The US's dollar strength is in it's military who's going to get it next?

The next two months is going to be very interesting.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: laterade on May 29, 2011, 06:00:53 am
Two months...The next few weeks should be interesting! Seems like every day something new comes up.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on May 29, 2011, 07:41:40 am
yeah you're right. Even this Monday will be interesting. I think there will be riots in streets by the end of the year in the US due increasing gas prices.

Looks like we are seeing the end of the keynesian economics.

Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: ys on May 29, 2011, 08:42:19 am
there won't be any riots because gas prices are not subsidized.  gas riots usually happen when government stops or reduces subsidies.  on top of that gas in US is way cheaper than in Europe and people in europe do not earn more money.

US can afford to keep printing press running indefinitely as long as it remains the most stable ponzi pyramid.  euro could've given dollar a competition but thanks to a number of socialist states dollar is still the most trusted world reserve currency.  chinese economy is comparable in size but yuan is even bigger ponzi pyramid and no one trusts chinese anyway.  there is no other country with comparable economy to offer its currency as world reserve.  you can bash dollar all you want, it does not change anything because dollar has very little competition right now.

military campaigns are actually a drag for the dollar, US is getting back much less than it spends on military costs.  if not for the printing press and reserve currency status the wars would bankrupt US long time ago.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on May 29, 2011, 09:51:44 am
You have to admit the next few weeks will be interesting. The american dollar's strength is in it's military. You've got the bombs (Denis Leary) remember.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: laterade on May 29, 2011, 10:09:26 am
The integrity of monetary systems is non existent. You know that the "Federal Reserve Bank" is not a public institution right?
I just finished this incredible documentary, everyone living on earth should, at least, see it once.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXt1cayx0hs
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: ys on May 29, 2011, 10:10:16 am
what is so radical going to happen in the next few weeks? i think it'll be the same drag as the previous 52 weeks.  was there another end of the world prophecy?
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: CHK91 on May 29, 2011, 10:26:27 am
In other sort of related news: Ron Paul is now polling 12%  ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: ys on May 29, 2011, 10:30:15 am
Quote
The integrity of monetary systems is non existent.

integrity is irrelevant, it works for now that's all that matters.  currently there are no other feasible alternatives, not gold, not silver, not oil, nothing.  supposedly worthless paper dollar is what currently works.  the theories in that video maybe the most accurate but unless they are put in practice they are as useless as dirt.

if you are paranoid about dollar collapse then i suggest you stock up with guns and ammo and start digging a bunker.  as soon as i get enough money i would probably build off-grid self sufficient compound in the middle of nowhere.   until then if you can't do anything about it it is pointless to worry about it.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on May 29, 2011, 10:38:13 am
what is so radical going to happen in the next few weeks? i think it'll be the same drag as the previous 52 weeks.  was there another end of the world prophecy?

nothing radical will happen I said it will be interesting over the next few weeks...gold...silver..european debts. No doomsday rubbish. The 'we've got the bombs' quote was relating to the power the US has through it's military to strengthen the dollar.

I've hedged my bets lately so it's even more interesting.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: ys on May 29, 2011, 10:46:52 am
if you trading currencies, good luck to you.  greek saga would drag for years, then default will happen, so what?  eurozone is big enough to absorb greek bleep.  italian default would be a significant blow, but that'll take years to cook.

i think gold bubble will eventually burst.  it did before.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on May 29, 2011, 10:49:49 am
I can handle it. Rather be in the midst of it rather than twiddling by thumbs.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: laterade on May 29, 2011, 11:50:31 am
I never said worry, the video gives a good presentation of an alternate POV of history. The first part of making a wise choice is to actually know what is going on, or at least have a good grasp. As far as any currency working, for a long period of time, there really is no evidence of this being a possibility.
Adopting a gold standard would be an even worse idea, because the world bankers are in possession of most of it. They would have instant control over the world if the governments went back to the gold standard. This is why we should be wary of people like Ron Paul.

... start digging a bunker...
I'd rather prepare to be a nomad.  ;)

I can handle it. Rather be in the midst of it rather than twiddling by thumbs.
Exactly
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: Brad462 on May 29, 2011, 12:38:33 pm
Adopting a gold standard would be an even worse idea, because the world bankers are in possession of most of it. They would have instant control over the world if the governments went back to the gold standard. This is why we should be wary of people like Ron Paul.
I'd rather prepare to be a nomad.  ;)
Exactly

This doesn't make much sense to me. Why would adopting a gold standard be more dangerous than allowing a private bank to print money out of thin air.  If that is true why don't we see these corrupt politicians pushing for a gold standard. Every U.S. president who has tried to get rid of fiat currency ends up dead or if their lucky like Andrew Jackson they survive the attempted assasination.

Andrew Jackson: The paper-money system and its natural associations--monopoly and exclusive privileges--have already struck their roots too deep in the soil, and it will require all your efforts to check its further growth and to eradicate the evil. The men who profit by the abuses and desire to perpetuate them will continue to besiege the halls of legislation in the General Government as well as in the States, and will seek by every artifice to mislead and deceive the public servants. It is to yourselves that you must look for safety and the means of guarding and perpetuating your free institutions. In your hands is rightfully placed the sovereignty of the country, and to you everyone placed in authority is ultimately responsible. It is always in your power to see that the wishes of the people are carried into faithful execution, and their will, when once made known, must sooner or later be obeyed; and while the people remain, as I trust they ever will, uncorrupted and incorruptible, and continue watchful and jealous of their rights, the Government is safe, and the cause of freedom will continue to triumph over all its enemies.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on May 29, 2011, 02:05:27 pm
We only get the crumbs, but I'll take'em.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: sabertooth on May 29, 2011, 06:10:04 pm


military campaigns are actually a drag for the dollar, US is getting back much less than it spends on military costs.  if not for the printing press and reserve currency status the wars would bankrupt US long time ago.

What you don't realize is that most of the military operations conducted by the Anglo American empire also involve economic terrorism. Ever see confession of an economic hit man. It reveals the whole scam.

Basically the empire has to maintain total economic dominance over the 2nd and third world countries, in order to maintain hegemony. They do this by subverting any 2nd world country that has the audacity to set up a monetary system outside the control of the cental banks.  Why else do you think that developing nations with huge reservoirs of natural resources are never able to develop into first world nations. Its economic terrorism and financial sabotage.

 Just study the history. Operation Ajax( the overthrow of Iran with rent a mobs), Iran contra, the assassination of the banana republic leaders who even dare try to rise up. The whole Bosnia situation was about economics, ( they where building infrastructure and developing complete independence from the central banking cartels so they had to be dealt with by exaggerating claims of genocide and then sending in NATO take out civilian structures)  what about the portrayal of Chavez in Venezuela by our media. Or the current campaign against Libya, this list could go on and on , but I hope you get the point of how and why no other country will be allowed to break free from empirical economic control of the fiat money masters.

please watch this if you wish to know the whole story, it explains how the world is being run.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKRKZqdgBXg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux-M2k5xRBo&feature=related

I am a big fan of Max Keiser
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbH1JsOTInk&feature=related
After seeing this many Greeks want max to run for president.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on May 29, 2011, 06:48:26 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLJu0X14vmg
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on July 17, 2011, 10:11:21 pm
Things have been looking desperate over the last week.

Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: TylerDurden on July 17, 2011, 10:16:06 pm
Why oh why hasn't some decent person assassinated Obama yet? The socialist moron has, it appears, refused a perfectly sensible amendment, forcing spending to be permanently kept within a budget so as to prevent further raising of the debt-ceiling in the future.

Admittedly, the UK also has its own appalling people who need to be bumped off, too:- Rupert Murdoch, Andy Hayman the police officer in charge of investigation into NewsCorp who let them off in return for favours, plus David Cameron, Gordon Brown etc. etc.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: sabertooth on July 18, 2011, 01:54:49 am
I still say we are seeing a controlled demolition of the world economy which is orchestrated by design in order to cull off the economic prosperity that would otherwise be a result of properly applied economics.

I can see no other reason for whats going on. At a time when there are so many advances being made there is no reason that we should be facing austere times, other than if it is being perpetrated by the elite in order to consolidate control.

Obama is a tool, Its obvious. The man has no decision making capability of his own. I hear him speak of how we are working on solutions, but he never tells the people who 'We' actually is. He seems to be speaking as a spokesman for a collectivist group, and not as the leader of the freest people of the free world.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: raw-al on July 18, 2011, 01:59:14 am
Why oh why hasn't some decent person assassinated Obama yet? The socialist moron has, it appears, refused a perfectly sensible amendment, forcing spending to be permanently kept within a budget so as to prevent further raising of the debt-ceiling in the future.

Admittedly, the UK also has its own appalling people who need to be bumped off, too:- Rupert Murdoch, Andy Hayman the police officer in charge of investigation into NewsCorp who let them off in return for favours, plus David Cameron, Gordon Brown etc. etc.
Not being an American I may be off base, but the Bushes, especially the last one was possibly the worst President that I am aware of. He is the source of the economic woes. Iraq for starters.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: zbr5 on July 18, 2011, 02:17:01 am
Dear Americans, please vote on Ron Paul in 2012 -he is not only hope for USA but for the globe.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: TylerDurden on July 18, 2011, 03:24:24 am
Not being an American I may be off base, but the Bushes, especially the last one was possibly the worst President that I am aware of. He is the source of the economic woes. Iraq for starters.
  Well, Bush did introduce tax-breaks for the super-rich, as I  vaguely recall, but Obama just wants the US to go into ever higher debt, which is unsustainable.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: raw-al on July 18, 2011, 03:30:33 am
  Well, Bush did introduce tax-breaks for the super-rich, as I  vaguely recall, but Obama just wants the US to go into ever higher debt, which is unsustainable.
My observation is that the horrific costs of Iraq (hmmmm weapons of mass destruction eh... yeah right) and the horrific costs of the deregulation of the financial industry that he trumpeted with Mr Greenspan have come home to roost. Although Bushes buddies and the VP did make some serious dough ray me off of Iraq so I guess someone is ahead.

Obama has been the target of ultra right racists. A friend of mine sends me this drivel in the form of racist jokes daily. It's all so pathetic.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: raw-al on July 18, 2011, 03:43:08 am
 Well, Bush did introduce tax-breaks for the super-rich, as I  vaguely recall, but Obama just wants the US to go into ever higher debt, which is unsustainable.
If my memory serves me Clinton cleared up the debt and then Bush reintroduced it to fund his war and his super-rich buddys or as he referred to them "The Have-Mores".

Rayguns (Reagan) was the one who said that giving tax breaks to his buddys was a way of bringing the economy back up to steam but that load of nonsense has been thrown in the trash heap of "great ways to line pockets" economics.

Economists debate, whether deficit reduction, amounts to being a good thing or a bad thing. Depends on who you listen to. It started out as a Republican war cry then they forgot about it with Rayguns rush to line his buds pockets and then Clinton seemed to actually do it. Although I do not believe that any one party is accurate or holy. I am not sticking up for Republicans. Both sides are just as bad as the other.

The solution may very well be to go to a "no party" system like the republic started out in the first place.  

Or the system where the number of total votes goes to the party instead of individual elections results with winner takes all.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: TylerDurden on July 18, 2011, 04:05:10 am
Well, Obama is just as bad as Bush re Iraq/Afghanistan. I mean, a genuine pacifist would have completely evacuated Afghanistan  well before  now and admitted it all as a lost cause and Iraq is still in an appalling mess after the US forces largely left it, killings etc. going on judging from stopthewar website, with Iraq more stable under Saddam. But, yes, I had forgotten about the Bush/Greenspan issues.  In the UK, it was Gordon Brown and leftwing Labour who fucked up the UK economy, it's usually the socialists who are reponsible for economic woes, though admittedly not always. In this case, though, Obama is clearly in the wrong. The republicans have rightly pointed out that in past decades(clinton-era according to rep senators) they were asked by the democrats to raise the deficit-limit in exchange for the Democrats reducing spending, but, inevitably, the democrats soon changed their tune and greatly upped their spending habits due to greed, thus inevitably  leading to this economic disaster. Unless spending is permanently capped by amendment, US presidents will continue to abuse the system.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: raw-al on July 18, 2011, 04:19:28 am
Well, Obama is just as bad as Bush re Iraq/Afghanistan. I mean, a genuine pacifist would have completely evacuated Afghanistan  well before  now and admitted it all as a lost cause and Iraq is still in an appalling mess after the US forces largely left it, killings etc. going on judging from stopthewar website, with Iraq more stable under Saddam. But, yes, I had forgotten about the Bush/Greenspan issues.  In the UK, it was Gordon Brown and leftwing Labour who fucked up the UK economy, it's usually the socialists who are reponsible for economic woes, though admittedly not always. In this case, though, Obama is clearly in the wrong. The republicans have rightly pointed out that in past decades(clinton-era according to rep senators) they were asked by the democrats to raise the deficit-limit in exchange for the Democrats reducing spending, but, inevitably, the democrats soon changed their tune and greatly upped their spending habits due to greed, thus inevitably  leading to this economic disaster. Unless spending is permanently capped by amendment, US presidents will continue to abuse the system.

Sounds like Reaganomics all over again.

My understanding is that Clinton did balance the budget
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071214065623AA5VuIT
There are many opinions on this.... And, it depends on which side you voted for no doubt.

I am vaguely familiar with British politics but what you say jives with what little I have read.

I read a book that claims that economics runs in 25 year cycles in the US and we are into a Democratic vein now. Unfortunately I erased the book from my Ipod and don't recall it's name.

I heard some European countries have the system whereby total votes per party are what matters not the winner take all model. The proper name escapes me......
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: sabertooth on July 18, 2011, 05:27:14 am
Clinton balanced the budget by overseeing and giving the green light to some of the most blatant fraud and counterfeiting schemes of all time. The repeal of glass steagal, borrowing like mad from China along deregulation over the hugely reckless and criminal economic schemes of the wall street Gang, flooded the whole system with funny money which was used to cause the Clinton era economic boom. The problem with praising Clinton was that it was all smoke and mirrors and eventually the bubble burst, although it wasn't until he was out and another clown was put in.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: raw-al on July 18, 2011, 05:31:59 am
From my readings this was for the most part the machinations of Greenspan who had plenty of years to cook the books and deregulate the financial industry.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: sabertooth on July 18, 2011, 05:53:21 am
So Has the president become some token by-standard to allow the Financial elite to cook the books on his watch. They are all in league and on board with what went down.

I do like Clinton more so than the other puppets. He seemed to have soul and a was more of a free spirit.

I like what he said about Bonobos

...at Clinton's command, we visited the National Museum [in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia], which houses the bones of "Lucy," a hominid who lives more than three million years ago...as Clinton walked past some of the display cases he started talking about the wonders of the bonobo apes.

"They have the most incredibly developed social sense," he said. "When one of them makes a kill, they share the food, unlike all the other apes." And then, Clinton said, with a laugh, "they fall down to the ground and have group sex! It's a way of relieving aggression!" Such behavior, he said, "would drive the Christian right crazy!"
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: raw-al on July 18, 2011, 06:58:06 am
So Has the president become some token by-standard to allow the Financial elite to cook the books on his watch. They are all in league and on board with what went down.

I do like Clinton more so than the other puppets. He seemed to have soul and a was more of a free spirit.

I like what he said about Bonobos

...at Clinton's command, we visited the National Museum [in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia], which houses the bones of "Lucy," a hominid who lives more than three million years ago...as Clinton walked past some of the display cases he started talking about the wonders of the bonobo apes.

"They have the most incredibly developed social sense," he said. "When one of them makes a kill, they share the food, unlike all the other apes." And then, Clinton said, with a laugh, "they fall down to the ground and have group sex! It's a way of relieving aggression!" Such behavior, he said, "would drive the Christian right crazy!"
whale oil beef hooked
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on July 18, 2011, 07:19:04 am
Don't know if charming equals free spirit.

Gold is pushing $1600 today. How are people here preparing for the depression?
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: laterade on July 18, 2011, 08:04:03 am
Becoming friends with good farmers, while honing outdoor/natural living skills.
More so the former, for I don't think it is going to get that bad, but it could be necessary.
If I can keep drinking milk, then that is what I plan on doing.

Helping others understand and optimize bodily functions from a clear perception could also be a good investment.
I am easing into the yoga teaching world. My job now causes much more stress. This should help me and my clients.
Choose a lifestyle that makes you and others happy.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: raw-al on July 18, 2011, 10:10:46 am
Offloading toys. Simplifying needs. Looking at rural property for living.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on July 21, 2011, 11:12:19 pm
Will be interesting to see what happens to Italy's gold.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: ys on July 22, 2011, 04:40:56 am
nothing really, it'll be happily resting in the vaults. which vault does not really matter since national central banks are part of EU Central Banks system.  if it moves between those banks it does not affect anything as long as they are part of euro zone.   
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on July 30, 2011, 12:28:37 pm
Big week coming up.

I think the next few years are going to be tough for those who are accustomed to welfare and cushy pretend jobs.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: sabertooth on July 30, 2011, 09:35:41 pm
I think we are all being subconsciously conditioned by the forces behind the curtain of mass media, to accept austerity and the decline of the standard of living. There is no reason that we should be having to worry about depressions and economic woe , if we could just get back to an honest money system. Its economic warfare being waged against the people of the free world. The nightly news programs are laced with propaganda that suggest that if the people don't go along with the solutions devised by the ruling class then wall street will crash and everything will go to hell.

Wake up people, the treasury has been hijacked and the financial welfare of us all is being held hostage by pirates. The new legislation will only give more and more money and power to the perpetrators of the heist

No one on the hill except for Ron Paul talks much about honest money. All the clever legislation, larceny and reconfiguring of debt in the world will do is just make the situation worse for the next generation. Both sides of the mainline debate have either been bamboozled into thinking that you have to cut spending or raise the debt ceiling; when in fact neither solutions being purposed will do squat to improve the situation. A return to honest money isn't even in the debate.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on August 08, 2011, 09:24:20 pm
Gold hit $1717 today. Interesting to see what happens tonight in the US.

Find out in 10 minutes.

Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: Projectile Vomit on August 08, 2011, 09:56:50 pm
Gold is flirting with $1700/ounce on NYMEX, DOW down 150-200 points. Yeah, after the US credit downgrade anything's possible. We live in interesting times...

As for my preparations, I'm simplifying my lifestyle, simplifying my diet, incorporating many cleansing ceremonies into my life to increase my psychological spiritual resilience. Personally, I think psychological and spiritual resilience is the greatest need for most people in the developed world. We have plenty of material resources, but they won't do any good if vast swaths of the population go apeshit at the first hint of turmoil.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on August 08, 2011, 10:21:47 pm
Not much has happened considering.

Can't imagine what it would be like in the states if things went ape shit. I think we would turn more towards traditional values. Maybe back to one income families, people getting married younger, families living together.

Preparations...not much, I've simplified things. Have small amount of cash. Invested in hard assets over the last few years so hopefully I can capitalise when things pickup (I would like to own/invest in a farm) Mentally prepared myself that things could get tougher. Stopped going out.



Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: ys on August 08, 2011, 11:37:55 pm
a lot of people are hoarding guns and ammo just in case things go sour.  good thing we are not restricted in this regard.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: raw-al on August 09, 2011, 09:34:18 am
Just talked with a friend who buys and sells this stuff. Mostly for himself. He was talking about the money to be made on the upswing. There is always an upswing. People always wallow in the meltdown, but the people who pulled out, still have the money that they pulled out and will want to make money on it again. Some pulled their money out late last year and are waiting for this so they can get the bargains.

Some lose their shirts and some make a bundle. The glass is half full.

Runs on anything take on a life of their own. It becomes a crapshoot. All the prophets (including yours truly ;D sometimes) and gamblers come out of the woodwork.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: sabertooth on August 09, 2011, 11:57:46 am


When the deceit and greed of the haves is too great to be tolerated and the value of money gets too deluded then the people begin to lose faith and money then loses its power of incentive to keep the real producers on the hamster wheel of progress .

People now have the information and technology available that can emancipate us from the illusions of the fairness or necessity of our current system. The evidence of the outright fraud and larceny that's being perpetrated right now is too great not to be noticed(at least on some subconscious level ) by the masses of people who are now being forced to pay for it. We are all going be cursed into paying for the perpetration of the great crime, and if there is a successful resistance then we will be met with further financial terrorism.

Why have all the major news media outlets been seeding us with this doom and gloom after the whole bailout heist, while at the same time being universally deceptive as to the true cause and conditions behind the problems? Is it Conspiracy? Mass Ignorance?  

Those questions take me back to the original point which is that money is by nature an instrument of deception. Without all those sniveling lawyers, bankers, teamsters, gamblers, financiers, power brokers, politicians ,etc.; trying to cook the books and stack the deck in their favor at the expense of the honest man then the money they fabricated and lord over would probably just fall into even greedier and more barbarous hands.

So it seems that most people represented by what if left of democracy are left with some lousy choices when it comes to fixing the fiat situation. The only true debates that are going on in regards to monetary reform, among those with the power to have effect on the outcome, seem to be focused on propping up the old system while the fleecing of the people continues unabated. People need to start hedging their bets right now in the faith that an undercurrent of awakening is occurring and we can only hope there are enough good people out that can still band together and hold up against whatever fables of debt that has been branded upon us.

As much as I like to rant and rave about these things and get caught up in the drama of the day, It may be more helpful to encourage people to study the history for themselves, whats going on now has been going on for a long time the only difference now is that for the first time people like me( a poor working class peon) has access to information about the nature of money as well as snippets of information regarding the counterfeiting schemes that are being sanctioned by government. Much of what was once such a guarded secrete is now out there for all to see.(Although truth has been somewhat displaced by the sheer mass of bullshit that is being spewed by mass media outlets.) What I find comforting is that when you study the underground history you begin to realize that there where great minds of the past who had also ranted and raved about the same injustices.

Just read what Andrew Jackson had figured out by his own observations that were deduced generations before the rise of internet conspiracy.

Every man is equally entitled to protection by law; but when the laws undertake to add… artificial distinctions, to grant titles, gratuities, and exclusive privileges, to make the rich richer and the potent more powerful, the humble members of society -- the farmers, mechanics, and laborers -- who have neither the time nor the means of securing like favors to themselves, have a right to complain of the injustice of their government.

"Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves."                            

I am one of those who do not believe that a national debt is a national blessing, but rather a curse to a republic; inasmuch as it is calculated to raise around the administration a moneyed aristocracy dangerous to the liberties of the country.

If Congress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given to be used by themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: raw-al on August 09, 2011, 03:10:00 pm
hmmmmm.......
Then the other point of view is that anyone has the ability to just opt out of the madness of the system by moving to a remote area and live off the land.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: TylerDurden on August 09, 2011, 03:36:51 pm
Yes, I have sometimes entertained the notion of being a "wild man of the woods" with just a log-cabin in the forests. But I'd still have costs re electricity. I suppose if I had a farm, and just sold whatever animals I didn't need, it might work....
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: raw-al on August 09, 2011, 03:44:02 pm
I've also entertained the wild man in the woods thing. If you really did the wild man in the woods, you need nothing. There have been people ie the Japanese guy who stayed in the forest refusing to give up after WW2. Mind you, I heard there is  bit more to that story...

However there have been people who have done it. Every once in a while a story surfaces about one.

However it's a bit easier said than done.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: TylerDurden on August 09, 2011, 04:00:51 pm
Yes, but the guy in question, I believe had to constantly raid Philipinno farms for food and killed 300 policemen etc. over the decades. Hiroo Onoda, I think it was..
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: raw-al on August 09, 2011, 04:06:05 pm
That's what I meant by "...there's a bit more to the story", although I hadn't heard about the 300 policemen part.

However I did hear that his story was not isolated. My understanding is that it is partly cultural in that giving up to some Japanese soldiers is not an option.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: TylerDurden on August 09, 2011, 04:27:39 pm
He was willing to surrender but only to his commanding officer.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: sabertooth on August 09, 2011, 07:23:58 pm
hmmmmm.......
Then the other point of view is that anyone has the ability to just opt out of the madness of the system by moving to a remote area and live off the land.

One shouldn't have to surrender all that is good about technology and civilization, just because of the corruption and unfairness of the monetary system. Surrender isn't an option , its time for people to make a stand and demand a sane and balanced monetary system. I am frustrated with the fatalistic mentality that is being conditioned into the masses. The Idea that there is no hope for people like myself to be able to rise up and take off the shackles of debt slavery without having to live like a Ted Kaczynski seems to me a cop out for those without the bravery or the will to take on the matter head on..
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: raw-al on August 09, 2011, 10:50:21 pm
One shouldn't have to surrender all that is good about technology and civilization, just because of the corruption and unfairness of the monetary system. Surrender isn't an option , its time for people to make a stand and demand a sane and balanced monetary system. I am frustrated with the fatalistic mentality that is being conditioned into the masses. The Idea that there is no hope for people like myself to be able to rise up and take off the shackles of debt slavery without having to live like a Ted Kaczynski seems to me a cop out for those without the bravery or the will to take on the matter head on..

Money is a solution to a problem. How to trade with other people.

Every solution has it's inherent flaws/downside. You cannot / will not control every other person into doing things in the way that you consider is right. You can pass laws, but then the laws will have flaws so you have to pass more laws to cover the flaws in the last round of laws, which of course have more flaws.

It's an endless procedure which ends up in the mess we have now. But then to others the mess looks "just about right, thank you very much". So therefore the mess can be "just about right to others. Depends on your point of view.

If you want to be the engine of change, then bear in mind that there will be someone right behind you that will want to change your change, to put some caulk in the leaky boat you left behind.

So walk out the door, leave it all behind and live off the land like a bear or coyote......

At least you won't get an ulcer worrying about that which is..... but shouldn't be.  ;D

I'm not saying you should roll over, just don't get an ulcer.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: sabertooth on August 10, 2011, 07:19:26 am
Do not misinterpret my passion for righteousness and love of sticking it to the man for neurosis. I assure you my stomach has never felt better and my worries about the injustice of the monetary system are justified.

You may play the pacifist if you wish, but I chose to speak out and ride out like Paul Revere and proclaim the bankers are coming.

I never have believed that there is any solution would be perfect or last forever, all I know is that the current system is built upon a foundation of inequity, and that there has to be a better way.

Artificial complexity has been built into the current monetary structure deliberately by those who lord over the issuance of currency. Throughout history there have been brave souls who attempted to return honest and simple money to the people. We need more heroic souls to take on this issue

Julius Caesar was a hero for giving the Romans fair money, and we know what happened to him.

Andrew Jackson's wife was poisoned, and there were multiple attempts on his life during his battle against the bankers.

Honest Abe was going to keep the greenback after the war, and was shot dead.

Lewis McFadden had enough support to threaten the Feds power and he was poisoned.

JFK was in the process of abolishing the fed before he was taken out.

Reagan had his own radical views on the economy that ran contrary to the FED and they made a serious attempt on his life, and although it failed, it does seem that afterward he never seriously challenge the FED policy as he had done when he was campaigning.





Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: magnetic on August 10, 2011, 08:05:23 pm
Money is a solution to a problem. How to trade with other people.

Every solution has it's inherent flaws/downside. You cannot / will not control every other person into doing things in the way that you consider is right. You can pass laws, but then the laws will have flaws so you have to pass more laws to cover the flaws in the last round of laws, which of course have more flaws.

Why do you think laws are necessary? Is it the passage of laws that prevents crime?
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: raw-al on August 10, 2011, 11:56:22 pm
Do not misinterpret my passion for righteousness and love of sticking it to the man for neurosis. I assure you my stomach has never felt better and my worries about the injustice of the monetary system are justified.

You may play the pacifist if you wish, but I chose to speak out and ride out like Paul Revere and proclaim the bankers are coming.

I never have believed that there is any solution would be perfect or last forever, all I know is that the current system is built upon a foundation of inequity, and that there has to be a better way.

Artificial complexity has been built into the current monetary structure deliberately by those who lord over the issuance of currency. Throughout history there have been brave souls who attempted to return honest and simple money to the people. We need more heroic souls to take on this issue

Julius Caesar was a hero for giving the Romans fair money, and we know what happened to him.

Andrew Jackson's wife was poisoned, and there were multiple attempts on his life during his battle against the bankers.

Honest Abe was going to keep the greenback after the war, and was shot dead.

Lewis McFadden had enough support to threaten the Feds power and he was poisoned.

JFK was in the process of abolishing the fed before he was taken out.

Reagan had his own radical views on the economy that ran contrary to the FED and they made a serious attempt on his life, and although it failed, it does seem that afterward he never seriously challenge the FED policy as he had done when he was campaigning.

I love it "Ride out like Paul Revere and proclaim - The bankers are coming". LOL, that is a great line. I'll keep that in my quiver. Hope you don't mind.

That's an interesting story (Paul Revere) and one that has been morphed and changed into something that it wasn't... however.

Not familiar with Julius Caeser. I will have to read.

Rayguns used his tenure to rob from the poor and give to the rich via his dismal "trickle down Reagonomics". He was shot by a nutbar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_assassination_attempt.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on August 11, 2011, 12:51:11 am
Craziness tonight.

Title: Re: Fiat currency (Venezuela is pulling it's gold)
Post by: wodgina on August 18, 2011, 08:11:52 pm
This is fairly significant news

http://www.news.com.au/business/venezuela-recalling-11b-in-gold-reserves/story-e6frfm1i-1226117210508
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on August 18, 2011, 08:13:59 pm
Good luck getting it!
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: ys on August 19, 2011, 01:28:17 am
what's going to stop them?  these are not frozen assets.  he can move them around all he wants.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on August 19, 2011, 06:49:06 am
Because the gold system is the same as the fiat system. It's mostly paper. If people start asking for the physical there will be serious problems because it isn't there.

Gold hit record highs again last night. Still think it's a bubble YS?
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: Projectile Vomit on August 19, 2011, 09:13:38 am
Of course gold is a bubble. It has little value aside from that imbued upon it by people who believe it is valuable. It has few industrial applications, you don't need it nutritionally, it has no household use aside from to make miserable women (and men) look "pretty".

Gold may well breach $2000/ounce or even $5000/ounce, but once the modern economic system falls apart its worth will be darn close to zero.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: TylerDurden on August 19, 2011, 01:31:37 pm
When the Great Depression happened, huge numbers of people were out of work and prices dropped like a stone, so that those  who were still in work were effectively very rich, even when on an average salary. I know a man whose father worked in the Chicago Philarmonic Orchestra at that time - the father had bought up huge tracts of dirt-cheap land in the Mid-West with his salary, which he then rented out to farmers.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on August 19, 2011, 07:08:06 pm
Of course gold is a bubble. It has little value aside from that imbued upon it by people who believe it is valuable. It has few industrial applications, you don't need it nutritionally, it has no household use aside from to make miserable women (and men) look "pretty".

Gold may well breach $2000/ounce or even $5000/ounce, but once the modern economic system falls apart its worth will be darn close to zero.

Shit gold could reach $2000 tonight.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: PaleoPhil on August 19, 2011, 07:13:35 pm
This smells like the big collapse that Nassim Taleb feared.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on August 19, 2011, 07:18:27 pm
I didn't think it was going to happen this quick.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: TylerDurden on August 19, 2011, 07:43:53 pm
So if property, gold/cash etc. is going to collapse in value, is there anything that will remain high in value, no matter what the economic situation?
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on August 19, 2011, 07:53:28 pm
In deflation I think cash is king. Although good farmland/guns/whiskey/gold/cigarettes are always valued.

In hyperinflation cash needs to be turned into any hard assets property/farmland/artwork/liquor/gold.

Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: ys on August 20, 2011, 12:35:31 am
Quote
Gold hit record highs again last night. Still think it's a bubble YS?

yes, i do think it's a bubble, it'll probably keep inflating because of fears and volatility.  but someday it'll burst and crash.  it'll crash just like everything else that crashed before - stocks, bonds, currencies, oil, sub-prime securities, other futures, real estate, pork, corn, etc.

are you saying chavez is holding gold futures instead of actual bullion?
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: PaleoPhil on August 20, 2011, 09:23:50 am
In deflation I think cash is king. Although good farmland/guns/whiskey/gold/cigarettes are always valued.

In hyperinflation cash needs to be turned into any hard assets property/farmland/artwork/liquor/gold.

And in chaotic times like now, it's not clear which way things are headed, if it ever is. With gold shooting up, it looks like the market is betting on inflation, but so far it hasn't materialized. I would lean toward thinking there will eventually be major inflation with all the gov't debt to pay off. Making the debt cheap by inflating the currency is seen by gov'ts as the least painful way out of debt-ridden collapse.

Then again I think it may be best to prepare for either eventuality as well as one can--such as holding both cash (in case of deflation) and hard assets (gold, gold and other precious metal mining stocks, land, a house(s), etc., in case of inflation). For most of my life I've tried to avoid debt, keep expenses low (except for food since going Paleo), and think ahead. One reason I went into the healthcare industry was that I was expecting eventual economic collapse and wanted to work in a relatively stable field. Even if no collapse occurs, it helps me to sleep to be prepared as best I can. The one exception to my general practices has been the condo I bought which so far has held it's value, but the mortgage that goes with it feels like an axe hanging by a thread over my neck.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: magnetic on August 20, 2011, 09:26:21 am
Making the debt cheap by inflating the currency is seen by gov'ts as the least painful way out of debt-ridden collapse.

You are right... it is the least painful solution... for the politicians.  ;D
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: PaleoPhil on August 20, 2011, 09:27:07 am
Yup, and that's all they care about.  ;D
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on August 22, 2011, 10:55:03 pm
Hey Phil, Doesn't it suck that people who saved and didn't max out their credit will be the ones who will be most screwed over the next year with hyperinflation?

Inflation has arrived, I stole this from http://whispersfromtheedgeoftherainforest.blogspot.com/



In the meantime, let's take a look at what the reality of what has happened since Ben Bernanke announced his QE2 policy in August 2010:

        Unleaded gas prices are up 45%.
        Heating oil prices are up 46%.
        Corn prices are up 71%.
        Soybean prices are up 26%.
        Rice prices are up 13%.
        Pork prices are up 31%.
        Beef prices are up 25%.
        Coffee prices are up 38%.
        Sugar prices are up 48%.
        Cotton prices are up 13%.
        Gold prices are up 42%.
        Silver prices are up 115%.
        Copper prices are up 23%.

Never mind those figures though... officially the fictional math of the CPI says inflation is only running at 2 - 3%.

Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on August 22, 2011, 11:11:17 pm
I would leave the US if I lived there.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: PaleoPhil on August 23, 2011, 05:18:41 am
Hey Phil, Doesn't it suck that people who saved and didn't max out their credit will be the ones who will be most screwed over the next year with hyperinflation?
Yeah, the prudent get punished and the irresponsible and misguided are rewarded. Think about the unfortunate Chinese who save every spare coin.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: magnetic on August 23, 2011, 09:09:47 am
I would leave the US if I lived there.

And go where? (I mean this honestly, I cannot decide)
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: PaleoPhil on August 23, 2011, 09:29:34 am
Maybe Costa Rica (especially the relatively pristine Osa Peninsula if you can find a way to make a living http://www.bosquedelcabo.com/home/index.html (http://www.concierge.com/cntraveler/contests/?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=685342&g2_serialNumber=2))? My other current favorites for often less than practical reasons are Tuva (some day I must go here--Tuva or bust dammit! (http://www.fotuva.org/soundsheet/images/cover_small.jpg)), Ireland, Mongolia, Fiji, Bhutan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_national_happiness), New Zealand, France, Turkey, Hungary, Samoa, Czech Republic, Scotland, Argentina, Brazil, Jamaica, Barbados, Sweden, Nunavut, Cameroon, Ethiopia, Trinidad and Tobago, Chukotka, Yakutia, Zululand, Botswana, Japan, China. Wish I was rich and had lots of time on my hands to explore them all.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: ys on August 23, 2011, 10:14:36 am
Quote
I would leave the US if I lived there.

good thing you don't have to worry about that.  tell that to my philippino in-laws who are trying absolutely every trick out there to get here.  some are here illegally, work under the table, and have no desire whatsoever to go back.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on August 23, 2011, 05:50:58 pm
And go where? (I mean this honestly, I cannot decide)

Anywhere but the US, you guys have had it easy for such a long time I think you will struggle to pay true prices for goods.

I would pick Australia and New Zealand but it's hard to get in unless you meet a girl or you have a skill. If you're young you can easily get a working visa if you're Canadian. Or you could try coming here as a student this is pretty easy.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: ys on August 25, 2011, 04:32:23 am
gold is down almost $100, some profit taking is going on.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on August 25, 2011, 06:37:44 am
Temporary manipulation with paper gold. Probably go down 10%. You would be crazy to sell real gold right now.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on August 25, 2011, 10:47:04 pm
Yeah, the prudent get punished and the irresponsible and misguided are rewarded. Think about the unfortunate Chinese who save every spare coin.



How are the chinese being punished for saving or am I not getting it?
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: TylerDurden on August 25, 2011, 10:50:22 pm

How are the chinese being punished for saving or am I not getting it?
Yeah, I was under the impression that the Chinese were far more immune to the effects of the coming economic disaster. I mean, they have a huge trade surplus and loads of US bonds. Admittedly, if the US defaulted big-time re bonds, they might be in trouble, but the Chinese are still less worse off than people in other countries.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: ys on August 26, 2011, 12:10:27 am
chinese are still riding the expansion train and they are blowing their own bubbles.  add massive scale of corruption to it and cooked books and we might see many Enrons there.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: TylerDurden on August 26, 2011, 12:30:04 am
chinese are still riding the expansion train and they are blowing their own bubbles.  add massive scale of corruption to it and cooked books and we might see many Enrons there.
Well, at least they're doing something about the corruption. The Daily Telegraph mentioned recently about how several fraudsters have been caught in the last couple of years and dealt with. In the end, the Chinese criticised the government so much that the latter had to eventually act.

Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: ys on August 26, 2011, 01:59:18 am
That's not even peanuts, the scale of corruption in authoritarian regimes is beyond belief.  China's corruption rank is 78, just above Africa and the rest of the third world.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: TylerDurden on August 26, 2011, 02:41:26 am
Well, China does execute its fraudsters these days. In the West, someone who stole millions from families can get away easily with just a couple of years in an open prison with full amenities, since he/she would be considered "only" a white collar criminal.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: TylerDurden on August 26, 2011, 02:56:08 am
One obvious flaw with these corruption indices is that corruption is always carefully hidden, so that obvious  bias will inevitably distort the results. So, I don't think they are reliable. Besides, I have a brother who works in the City of London in the UK, who has told me that corruption etc. is really rife in the City but most can't be dealt with because most sensible corrupt people don't dare use their phones or other electronic gear to communicate with each other re insider-dealing etc.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: ys on August 26, 2011, 03:41:51 am
that's exactly why i think corruption in china is much worse than the index simply because china is much more closed down, they censor all their media and filter internet while London does not.  i guess time will tell when their bubbles will pop.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: PaleoPhil on August 26, 2011, 05:45:51 am

How are the chinese being punished for saving or am I not getting it?
Not ARE being--WILL be punished, WILL be if your and Nassim Taleb's prediction comes true. You explained it yourself here:
Quote
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/off-topic/fiat-currency/msg75683/#msg75683
Quote from: wodgina on August 22, 2011, 09:55:03 am
Hey Phil, Doesn't it suck that people who saved and didn't max out their credit will be the ones who will be most screwed over the next year with hyperinflation?

Like you said, savers get punished by hyperinflation and the Chinese people and government are the biggest savers in the world. Imagine working 365 days a year in 2 or 3 jobs, socking away every spare penny, then hyperinflation hits and the value of your money goes up in smoke because the Westerners decided they wanted to create massive debt so they could live beyond their means, then monetize the debt and thus trigger hyperinflation? It's a no wonder the Chinese government has started complaining to the Obama administration. If I were in the Chinese leadership, I would too.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: ys on August 26, 2011, 08:41:22 am
actually if china allows yuan to go free there would be a deflation because currently china keeps yuan artificially low to favor its exporters.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on August 26, 2011, 05:29:00 pm
Well only the small fry get executed.

Phil, the creditors get shafted = China. Although the average Chinaman will buy gold and silver which is in their favour.

The world is in a gigantic economic bubble and Australia will be the last to burst. Gold is not in a bubble it is money/wealth.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: TylerDurden on August 26, 2011, 05:32:55 pm
Not true. There have been several examples where bank directors, owners of companies and even regional executives in the Chinese Communist Party got executed. Unsurprising, as it's those who are most likely to be given the right to administrate vast sums of money.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on August 26, 2011, 05:33:46 pm
Small fry
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: ys on August 26, 2011, 10:44:14 pm
it is true china used to execute people for such crimes but lately they put it on hold due to international outcry (as if chinese care).  another thing is those executed are made scapegoats to cover bosses upstairs. 
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: TylerDurden on August 27, 2011, 02:12:51 am
http://exiledonline.com/china-executes-more-corrupt-millionairesmeanwhile-in-the-peasant-states-of-america-aig-takes-another-242-million-in-bonuses/
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: ys on August 27, 2011, 02:29:41 am
yes, that was 2 years ago, they put a hold on these.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on August 27, 2011, 04:04:22 am
I heard the Chinese are getting their gold straight from their mines. Cuts out the middle man.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on August 27, 2011, 04:38:49 am
I'm thinking of getting into good debt. In my current plan I can't see how I can lose! savers are the ones who lose lose lose.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: ys on August 27, 2011, 04:50:02 am
can you please explain what you mean by good debt? risks and how much it pays.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: PaleoPhil on August 27, 2011, 05:52:25 am
Phil, the creditors get shafted = China. Although the average Chinaman will buy gold and silver which is in their favour.
I hope for their sake that you're right. I wish our government and people had more gold and other hard assets (and less debt) to back the currency and make our people's finances and the economy more robust to adversity. It's not good for the nation to rely on fiat currency and build up such massive government and personal debt. The whole thing is a confidence game, a massive ponzi scheme. If confidence is lost, then it all falls apart.

Gold is not in a bubble it is money/wealth.
You're not claiming that the price of gold can never go down, are you?
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on August 27, 2011, 07:09:04 am
can you please explain what you mean by good debt? risks and how much it pays.


Well if you are interested and not taking the piss PM me and I'll tell you what I've done and what I'm doing.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on August 27, 2011, 07:10:45 am
I hope for their sake that you're right. I wish our government and people had more gold and other hard assets (and less debt) to back the currency and make our people's finances and the economy more robust to adversity. It's not good for the nation to rely on fiat currency and build up such massive government and personal debt. The whole thing is a confidence game, a massive ponzi scheme. If confidence is lost, then it all falls apart.
You're not claiming that the price of gold can never go down, are you?

In fiat or against corn?
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: PaleoPhil on August 27, 2011, 07:13:36 am
In fiat or against corn?
I don't know what you mean.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on September 24, 2011, 07:46:33 pm
I don't know what you mean.

I was alluding to the fact that valuing gold in fiat is not so accurate.

Silver and gold got smashed yesterday. Crazy times.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: PaleoPhil on September 24, 2011, 11:47:42 pm
What do you value gold in?

Yes, in the last great crash in 2008-9, gold, stocks, oil and housing prices all plummeted in a broad deleveraging. Cash equivalents were my only asset that held up reasonably well in value and since I was heavy in cash I didn't take much of a hit, but I suspect that cash will take a hyperinflationary hit at some point, what with the monetization of global debt.

Here are some other ways to value gold other than straight US dollars: http://www.econideal.com/2011/09/valuing-gold-from-inflation-and-money.html, though, admittedly, the source is biased in favor of investing in gold.
Quote
Rogers: Only a Crisis Can Fix U.S. Debt Problem 6/8/2011 8:19:15 PM
http://online.wsj.com/video/rogers-only-a-crisis-can-fix-us-debt-problem/7B14FAAB-F745-4ECA-ADB4-F8D5BD0A2C96.html

Q: If like me you're paid in dollars, what would you do?

Rogers: [laughs] Move to Asia, if I were you, and get paid in Asian hard currencies.

Note - Rogers lives in Singapore, where the currency is 100% backed by international assets:
"All issued Singapore dollar currency in circulation is fully backed by international assets to maintain public confidence.[3] The foreign reserves officially stand at over US$230 billion - as of May 2011." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_dollar
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on September 25, 2011, 03:34:03 am
Yeah I did noticed Rogers lived in Singapore, he is a smart man. Here is a recent interview which I liked. Looked to be flirting with the news reader.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU9WnKWamzA&feature=player_embedded

Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: PaleoPhil on September 25, 2011, 08:54:31 am
Yeah, he gives good interviews. Similar views to Taleb.

So do you value gold in corn or what?
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: PaleoPhil on September 29, 2011, 09:51:37 am
'Anyone can make money from a crash,' says market trader
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15059135
Q: "(E)xactly what would keep investors happy; make them feel more confident?"
A: "(I)t doesn't matter. .... Get prepared. This is not a time right now to (do) wishful thinking.... The government is not going to sort things out. The governments don't rule the world, Goldman Sachs rules the world. .... (L)earn about how to make money from a downward market. The first thing people should do is protect their assets."

Refreshing candor.
Title: I'm the 1% let's talk
Post by: wodgina on October 29, 2011, 09:11:33 am
Peter Schiff worth over 100 illion dollars talks with the 99% protesters.

Peter Schiff at OWS: "Walmart Doesn't Hold a Gun to Your Head!" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZr9c1zYaOE#ws)
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: TylerDurden on October 29, 2011, 01:28:09 pm
Peter Schiff  does make a point:- the reason for shoving jobs over to China is because people want cheaper goods. Even so, the arrogant fact that companies refuse to employ people in Western countries because they demand certain rights like decent salaries etc., is not excusable. What Western people should do is state that if certain Western companies have no interest in employing staff from those Western populations, then those Western populations should not buy their goods at all. I mean, all those Chinese/Polish etc. workers  overseas are treated like the purest dogsh*t, being forced to wear nappies because they are not allowed any toilet-breaks etc., so everybody is being treated like sh*t by these companies.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on October 29, 2011, 03:21:40 pm
Peter Schiff  does make a point:- the reason for shoving jobs over to China is because people want cheaper goods. Even so, the arrogant fact that companies refuse to employ people in Western countries because they demand certain rights like decent salaries etc., is not excusable. What Western people should do is state that if certain Western companies have no interest in employing staff from those Western populations, then those Western populations should not buy their goods at all. I mean, all those Chinese/Polish etc. workers  overseas are treated like the purest dogsh*t, being forced to wear nappies because they are not allowed any toilet-breaks etc., so everybody is being treated like sh*t by these companies.

Because we want cheap goods. Companies do what they do. Anyway governments put in minimum wages. The government makes it difficult to employ people. My boss can't sack me it's too difficult, even if I'm unproductive.  The last company I worked at no one had ever been fired.
Title: I'm the 1% let's talk
Post by: wodgina on October 29, 2011, 03:22:48 pm
Extended version

Peter Schiff Speaks for 1 Percent at Occupy Wall Street (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGL-Ex1CD1c#ws)
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: TylerDurden on October 29, 2011, 04:49:58 pm
It's true that governments make things difficult re firing people, but that should change re altering laws. I don't think minimum wages are a problem per se, they just ensure that people don't work as slaves. What we need are harsher employment laws forcing the Chinese/Polish etc. to have decent working conditions so that no one is forced to wear nappies during work etc.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on October 29, 2011, 06:16:14 pm
Wear diapers? where do you get this stuff! ha ha

ps Don't send me a link
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: RawZi on October 29, 2011, 08:35:00 pm
What we need are harsher employment laws forcing the Chinese/Polish etc. to have decent working conditions so that no one is forced to wear nappies during work etc.

    I hadn't heard about the Chinese and Polish, but I believe it.  I've seen enough in person.  I wouldn't mind seeing a link either, but I still will believe it even if there is no link.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: sabertooth on October 29, 2011, 09:20:08 pm
There is an occupy wall street group that is active in my church, and it seems that the main gripe among Unitarians is centered around the financial tyranny and exploitation of the third and second world by the clandestine empire and predatory IMF loan sharks. Some of the stolen loot trickles down to the people of the west and keeps many complacent, but the third and second world countries are really getting hit hard and receive nothing in return.

 Many countries in sub-Saharan Africa are paying up to four times the money for foreign debt as they are for educcation and health care. They have become debt slaves and foreigners own their infrastructure . Anytime someone attempts to rise up and break free of the debt system they are taken out. Just look of what happened to Libya. Ask yourself what business did the UN have in aiding "Rebel forces" What right did the french military  have to bomb Gaddafi's convoy. Why did the western forces really take him out. He was a threat to the hegemony of the western financial mafias. The rebels that have taken over the country are basically useful idiots that don't have the strength or the will to resist the Empire as Gaddafi had done. Soon the western empire will come in and loot what wealth is left in that nation.

Maybee you can't blame wall street for everything, but then who can you blame  for such operations. It seems that there are unseen charioteers that hide behind the curtain of our financial institutions. I think what the focus of the occupy wallstreet movement should be is prompting new legislation that would guarantee transparency.

The real problem with wallstreet is secrecy, larceny fraud, counterfeiting ,ponzy schemes,cronyism, conflicts of interest, coopting of government officials, etc. As long as companies are still aloud to keep multiple sets of books and hide information about their liability while falsifying information about their assets then the crimes will continue.

People need to demand honesty and transparency in the financial sector. But sadly the controlled media has developed ingenious ways of obscuring the real issues and infussing a bunch of irrelevant talking points , and partisan bullcrap, to distract people from demanding Justice for crimes that have been committed.

Does anyone doubt that there have been crimes committed? There must be justice, and the criminals must be punished. In a free market/free society you cant allow these types of white collar crimes to persist, or else the average person looses faith in the system and you have the type of breakdown that is happening Right Now.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: TylerDurden on October 29, 2011, 11:48:35 pm
There were 2 Daily Telegraph articles, one about Polish workers, working for German companies, being forced to wear nappies  because they were not allowed any toilet-breaks, and another similiar story about Chinese workers. I can't find them right now, but here is a story about an Argentinian firm doing the same sort of thing:-

http://www.allbusiness.com/retail-trade/food-stores/4255560-1.html (http://www.allbusiness.com/retail-trade/food-stores/4255560-1.html)
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: raw-al on October 30, 2011, 04:02:05 am
Congrats to the Peter Shilling guy for speaking. I agree with him.

I also agree with the Occupy Wall Street movement. It's about time people got off their duffs.

I feel that Ron Paul is absolutely correct.

If you are not familiar, Ron Paul is an American politician with brilliant ideas on monetary policy re: gold standard. I recommend reading his book "Liberty Defined".

He is a one in a million politician.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: wodgina on October 30, 2011, 06:33:45 am
There were 2 Daily Telegraph articles, one about Polish workers, working for German companies, being forced to wear nappies  because they were not allowed any toilet-breaks, and another similiar story about Chinese workers. I can't find them right now, but here is a story about an Argentinian firm doing the same sort of thing:-

http://www.allbusiness.com/retail-trade/food-stores/4255560-1.html (http://www.allbusiness.com/retail-trade/food-stores/4255560-1.html)

Allegedly..maybe..someone heard from someone! lol you pull this extreme stuff from the depths of the internet. Sometimes I feel like you're being paid to jump in and make our arguments ridiculous.

One thing the video shows is the protesters don't know why they are there and the hypocrisy!
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: TylerDurden on October 30, 2011, 07:10:35 am
Considering that employees have been treated even worse than this,  these stories are unlikely to have been made up. Here's some more info:-

"Please relieve me, let me go

Speed-up of work and new management techniques are making loo breaks vulnerable across the industrialised world and in big name companies.

In Canada, after a survey of workers at the four major motor manufacturers, GM, Ford, Chrysler and CAMI, the Canadian Auto Workers union (CAW) concluded: "Across all four companies, workers found it difficult to find a relief worker so that they could go to the washroom" (Hazards 64).

The US foodworkers' union UFCW has reported similar problems in a number of workplaces, with workers resorting to the use of adult diapers.

A US Bureau of National Affairs report highlights the case of a female factory worker who spent 10 per cent of her weekly wage on incontinent pads, worn inside her uniform because she was forced to work six hours without a break. One company even discouraged workers from drinking water to reduce time spent in the toilet (cited in Workers' Health International Newsletter, no.53, 1998).

A lack of facilities for women in traditionally male industries can have its own problems. A pregnant night shift worker at a Ford plant in Southampton had to be escorted by a security guard across a badly lit car park to the nearest women's toilet so he could unlock it, wait until she'd finished, then escort her back." taken from:-

http://www.hazards.org/toiletbreaks/ (http://www.hazards.org/toiletbreaks/)

Also:-

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/05/03/us-chile-retail-diapers-idUSN0237031620070503 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/05/03/us-chile-retail-diapers-idUSN0237031620070503)

Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: raw-al on October 30, 2011, 07:25:25 am
One thing the video shows is the protesters don't know why they are there and the hypocrisy!
Most people no matter how literate, intelligent, well meaning, when stuck in front of a camera or a large audience tend to stumble over their tongues and make no sense whatsoever.

I found that there was a certain amount of understanding in the crowd aside from the ones who were obviously not the brightest candles in the box.

What I liked was that it was a conversation that needed to be had with both sides under pressure. Looked to me to be a perfect opportunity to run with the issue and use it to catapult further action by Peter and the crowd. The people had a front row chance to start the ball rolling to get rid of the Fed, which I see as the root of the problem.

I used to be a liberal in my voting patterns. In other words if the choices were all bad I would vote liberal. Gradually I am starting to see the value of a more conservative viewpoint and after reading Ron Pul's books and seeing his videos I am sold on him.

I learned bout Ron Paul on this forum BTW.
Title: Re: Fiat currency
Post by: ys on April 16, 2013, 05:15:52 am
Gold got hammered today
http://news.yahoo.com/gold-plunges-lowest-more-2-181027539.html (http://news.yahoo.com/gold-plunges-lowest-more-2-181027539.html)

The gold market was also rattled by a proposal last week that Cyprus sell some of its gold reserves to support its banks. Traders worry that Spain, Italy and other weak European countries might follow suit, flooding the market with excess supply just as demand for the metal is weakening.

"This is panic, this it isn't organized at all," said Phil Streible, a senior commodities broker at RJ O'Brien Futures. "If you look at Italy or Spain....if they start liquidating, that's when you get serious movements."

Some Federal Reserve officials have also been calling for an early end to the central bank's bond-buying program. If that happens, it would likely cause U.S. interest rates to rise, resulting in an appreciation of the U.S. dollar. That gives traders another reason to sell gold, since they see the metal as an alternative to holding dollars.

Industrial metals also fell after China reported that economic growth slowed unexpectedly in the first three months of the year. The world's second-largest economy grew by 7.7 percent over a year earlier, slowing from the previous quarter, and short of many private sector forecasts that growth would accelerate slightly to 8 percent.