Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Hot Topics => Topic started by: achillezzz on July 16, 2011, 06:35:23 am
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http://www.naturalnews.com/032912_FDA_dietary_supplements.html#ixzz1RKigoJJ1
WTF........ :'(
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I don't see the problem. We rawpalaeodieters frown on supplements, other than perhaps clay.
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For once I agree with Geoff. To the extent that medicinal plants are needed, there's no reason people can't harvest locally, or grow herbs important to them in their garden or in a nearby friend's garden. Most of the supplements sold at "health food stores" are garbage anyway. Hopefully FDA is successful on this front.
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Not only am I frowning on supplements as a RPD, but I've been getting links and articles like this from my nutritionist friends for decades, dating back to the 1970s. That sector has been crying "wolf" so long that I don't listen anymore. (My apologies to all my fine wolf friends.)
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I totally believe that the FDA is corrupt and probably acting on the behalf of secretive organizations within the medical/big pharma/big agra industrial complex in the case of the current campaign against supplements.
But I too must side with Geoff, in the belief that most supplements are second rate dietary crutches for people who should be getting their nutrition from raw food sources.
Its seems so stupid to me now, knowing what I know: for people to cook and process the nutrients out of food, only to become deficient and diseased and then have to pay outrageous prices for supplements that only do a half ass job of correcting the deficiency that could be avoided all along with a more evolutionary raw food based natural diet.
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Why should believing supplements aren't any good lead to the acceptance of all people being violently restricted from selling/purchasing them?
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Because sometimes people need to end up backed into a corner in order to wake up...
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There needs to be a rational compromise, I don't believe that supplements should be restricted unless they are somehow proven harmful. More federal oversight and safety/quality control testing are needed, but I don't trust the bastards to ever set up the proper bureaucracy to do so ethically , so from my P.O.V its all gloom and doom no matter how the chips fall.
I just believe that there are absurdities on both sides of the issue.
The way I see it is that its more about money than it is about giving people free access to the means to good health. The establishment is battling with the alternative health advocates for the money of the poor souls who are suffering, and in my opinion both the mainstream and the alternative factions, that are profiting off the sickness of others, are full of so much crap that its hard to take either side seriously(from a raw paleo Mans perspective.)
I do concede that there are millions of those out there who would rather die than adopt a raw paleo way of life and I believe that those people should have the right to chose to supplement their totally inadequate diets, the only problem is that there are so many snake oil salesmen in the alternative health movement that I don't even think an educated person can make intelligent decisions based on all the misinformation out there.
The whole issue is a quagmire, lucky for many of us here we have found a way to transcend the need for supplements.
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I have used plants from all over the world for certain reasons. I also don't see why a blanket rejection of supplements is called for. People may have individual needs or want to achieve something specific in exercise etc. In any case the civil liberties implication is wrong as Kyle says if this does in fact turn out to happen.
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This plain and simple big pharma. Problem is they will try other fronts in their conquest of money.
Big pharma/agriculture has been able to get their GMOs and other animal disgustifications approved through the same political folks.
So if you allow one front to cave you are saying OK to it all and then you suffer.
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The companies selling those supplements are big companies like big pharma - indeed pharmaceutical companies love selling artificial supplements like vitamins etc.
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The companies selling those supplements are big companies like big pharma - indeed pharmaceutical companies love selling artificial supplements like vitamins etc.
True but they make more off of drugs. They have been working away at this goal in North Am. for years. Every so often they come up with a new tactic
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The companies selling those supplements are big companies like big pharma - indeed pharmaceutical companies love selling artificial supplements like vitamins etc.
You mean companies like Dr. Ron's powdered organs/glands and Dr. Mercola's website?
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More federal oversight and safety/quality control testing are needed
Why? Has federal oversight in the pharmaceutical market made it better?
Are you for laws giving the federal government power to not allow citizens the ability to make their own choices about what they buy and put in their bodies, with their own money? Because that's what federal oversight is.
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You mean companies like Dr. Ron's powdered organs/glands and Dr. Mercola's website?
They are hardly big companies.
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Americans need to rebel against their corrupt government agencies.
No real freedom.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
You heard the messenger.
Do something.
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Why? Has federal oversight in the pharmaceutical market made it better?
Are you for laws giving the federal government power to not allow citizens the ability to make their own choices about what they buy and put in their bodies, with their own money? Because that's what federal oversight is.
I am being facetious here, and then later I ended the idea with expressing how the whole situation contains absurdities at which there is no rational solution. I making that statement from the perspective of someone who believes that honest people could be placed in positions of control without being corrupted. I know it seems stupid, to think that a panel of independent scientist could be democratically elected to run the FDA under a strict constitution that would only allow them to ban something after it was proven unsafe or fraudulent. That is the ideal goal that should be strived for, but the reality is far more twisted and wickedly corrupt, and there needs to be democratic oversight by representatives of the Free World.(I hope there is still such a thing)
Now why in this insane universe isn't there someone honestly making such a demand to the congress. Perhaps in a few years I will have to run run for the senate. To bad they don't let any real man into the position of importance there.
I still contend that both sides of the great health debate in general are represented by enemy's of true health freedom and until more people demand more rational solutions we all will continue to be robbed and lied to .EErr Sorry my wife keeps tickling me.
And for the type of dried glandular or herbal supplements that seem to go over with some raw paleo people , those kind of supplement could be made in small batches from local sources. Kind of like what they already do with cannabis. The only problem with the black market approach is that its usually just as taxed and is also prone to just as many quality issues as that of markets under the jurisdiction of the FDA.
This may be some off the wall commentary but I am one who believes that it should be up to the individual to chose their own elixirs, and on the other hand to pick their poisons, and if the FDA assumes the authority over those personal freedoms then it should do so in a limited and constitutional fashion, Only if a substance represents a clear and present danger should it be barred. Unfortunately this can never happen as things stand today. Get rid of the corruption that exist currently, then and only then could we have a reasonable debate on the solutions.
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They are hardly big companies.
That's correct. You said the companies selling supplements are big companies like pharmaceutical companies. But there are many small companies that might offer quality products. If you regulate supplements then you regulate them all.
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sabertooth, if you look at the history of all government organizations you will never find such a group of "representatives from the Free World" to look over the corrupt bureaucrats. Nothing is perfect, including the free market, but it's the closest thing to perfect we have. A centralized authority trying to control things only exacerbates problems, and also I believe it's just immoral for people not to have the freedom of choice, including making bad choices for themselves.
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Western Medicine's entire theory of disease, diet and drugs is wrong on all counts and it is represented by the FDA. Seems people are "free" to make bad choices as long as it is a western medical bad choice.
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That's correct. You said the companies selling supplements are big companies like pharmaceutical companies. But there are many small companies that might offer quality products. If you regulate supplements then you regulate them all.
I meant that the big pharma companies are also the main ones selling supplements. They want over-regulation as only the big companies can handle the extra red tape.
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And for the type of dried glandular or herbal supplements that seem to go over with some raw paleo people , those kind of supplement could be made in small batches from local sources. Kind of like what they already do with cannabis.
I think that's a pipe dream unfortunately, that it can all be done as a cottage industry and you can get what you need locally.
It will mean no freeze dried glandulars, no anti-parasite herbs etc etc.
Apart from that it's just the wrong way of looking at it to say 'well raw paleo people don't need them so whatever'
Mineral supplements got me through some difficult times when not paleo, and a lot of people get real benefit from things. You think it's fine that the only alternatives will be pharmaceuticals, and that people can't try other things for themselves?
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Pipe dream Ha , perhaps; but try to imagine whats so impossible about getting some farmer to save back the glands and then buying a bit of dry ice to freeze dry it for yourself. People have lost the self reliance that made the free world great. Its my view that a person shouldn't have to be subject to any authority when it comes to providing the means of health. If you have to get some holy grail supplement from a factory source to make yourself whole then is that real health freedom. I hear where you are coming from, its just that I have taken a more absolutist stance that the food should be thy medicine. There is a natural food source that could replace any supplement that the body truly needs.
For example you say that mineral supplements really helped you, well what about using bone meal instead, I take a rasp and grind up a few mouth wads of bone meal from time to time myself. I am an advocate of the Idea that most supplements are not necessary if you would only seek out the right food sources. I don't wish to take anyone's rights away, I am just saying that the supplement industry in itself feeds off of much of the same ignorance that the medical establishment feeds off of and people should educate themselves about food based alternatives before they start popping pills.
As for the power of the free market to regulate the snake oil salesmen , I seriously doubt that the Laissez-faire anything goes free market faction is much more of an Ideal than at least attempting to have a constitutionally based system of limited regulation.
No one has yet to address that proposal directly. I am not saying that we should allow for total arbitrary control to be placed in the hands of central government , only that the government should have a limited authority to step in when there are any real and scientifically valid areas of concern. Of course I here the voice of the opposition to any regulation and do have concerns myself about how you will never find a way to put people of integrity into such positions of power.
No one wants the same people who approve round up ready GMO crops to have the power to ban harmless vitamin supplements
http://www.activistpost.com/2011/07/worlds-largest-human-experiment-part.html
We have scientific proof that these chemicals that are being placed in the food supply are causing biological harm, but the agency responsible for regulation is to busy trying to prevent people from using vitamins to address the real issues of mass poisoning. There are just so many absurdities regarding corruption that must be resolved before a rational debate can occur. (Just a Pipe dream I know)
Things are dire on both fronts of the debate and the path of the righteous man is beset on all sides.
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UK farmers don't want to supply glands, so for me it would involve a massive countrywide search and large amounts of money to bribe someone. Hardly a nice self reliant local thing.
I believe food is the main key to health that's why I'm here. I'm not prepared to write off the majority of people who are not ready for raw paleo and might need something.
Who's to say that a supplement isn't the right choice for someone even on raw paleo for a certain reason? It's not all about mineral supplements there are many more. I think it's a bit blinkered to insist that everything can be solved with food for everyone.
We don't live in the world of our ancestors, and many haven't grown up on raw paleo food...and the food source may have changed anyway. You might want something to achieve a certain affect or 'bend' the way your system works.
Anyway, I'm glad that you agree that freedom to choose shouldn't be restricted.
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The western model of medicine is reductionist as it is the only way to have patents on a drug thereby allowing someone to have a monopoly. That is why they have the DIN system. There was an attempt to patent I believe it was turmeric and one other herb but it was quashed.
These scumbags have managed to restrict herbal use in Canada through politics, ie money spent on politicians. Their whole system is self-policing. So they restrict the numbers of Doctors / drugs and facilities so they have a giant self-contained money making machine. All the players have huge financial gain at stake.
Since herbal etc. supplements threaten their mega-monopoly they are doing their best to make up stories as to what the public good is. They have managed to quash other health systems such as homeopathy with disinformation and propaganda. They will railroad any system that threatens their existence.
I heard recently that aids drugs cost around 10,000 USD per patient per year. Then somebody in India reverse engineered the drugs and produces them for less than a dollar per day. Hmmm talk about upset the moneycart. You could say that the drug companies need to recoup their investment.... yeah right. and what happened to all the money raised by charities for aids research...... ?
As far as our diet they have managed to keep misinformation propaganda so pervasive that most people are terrified of eating raw meat, so it ist is indeed in our interest to keep the bums at bay. They operate by moving things one inch at a time.
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Uk farmers wont supply glands?
Then you must admit that you have already lost access to health freedom. The UK and much of the world is already under tyrannical conditions, and this supplement ban is just the next phase of the takeover of all aspects of human life.
No one expects everyone to follow the paleo bandwagon, I am just a lone advocate of a more absolute and uncompromising way of life that I believe could help certain individuals that come here that are in need of such a message. I like to play devils advocate sometimes and often exaggerate my stance to make a point, but that does not mean I am unaware of my own limitations.
I speak from my own experience, here in a backwoods part America and even though things are getting bad right now its still possible to gain everything one needs to make a paleo diet a feasible solution to many health problems that I see people suffering from. There are epidemics of the kind never before scene in my part of the world and the environment and food supply along with idiotic medical practices are primarily what I blame. So in response to such great adversity I have adopted an extremest raw paleo purist attitude as way to transcend all the the monstrously complicated and half-baked solutions that I see most everyone else in the mainstream establishment and the alternative medicine supplement business trying to push.
This is my personal struggle to find a more personal truth. I am not speaking out of any utilitarian ideal, of how one must always consider the needs of the many over the personal needs of the few. Its just some intuition of mine to believe If the proper foods are available then supplements are not necessary(in general) , If there are other people who believe differently then they should be free to buy whatever supplement they believe will help them. There is plenty of room to agree to disagree on that particular issue. At least until the Feds come in and start making these decisions for us.
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I meant that the big pharma companies are also the main ones selling supplements. They want over-regulation as only the big companies can handle the extra red tape.
So you are against regulation or for it? It seemed like you were saying before regulation is fine because the sellers of supplements are "big bad companies."
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So you are against regulation or for it? It seemed like you were saying before regulation is fine because the sellers of supplements are "big bad companies."
Look, it all depends. If the regulation concerns banning foods or supplements which are rarely or never consumed by rawpalaeos(eg:- trans-fats), then I naturally am not all that interested. Regulation of things like raw oysters, however, would make me react very strongly.