Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Hot Topics => Topic started by: PaleoPhil on August 01, 2011, 12:12:10 am
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I'm making this cancer thread as a place to put studies and anecdotes relevant to the topic.
Effects of a ketogenic diet on the quality of life in 16 patients with advanced cancer: A pilot trial
Melanie Schmidt, Nadja Pfetzer, Michael Schwab, Ingrid Strauss and Ulrike Kammerer
Nutrition & Metabolism 2011, 8:54 doi:10.1186/1743-7075-8-54
Published: 27 July 2011
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/8/1/54/abstract
"Conclusions
These pilot data suggest that a KD is suitable for even advanced cancer patients. It has no severe side effects and might improve aspects of quality of life and blood parameters in some patients with advanced metastatic tumors."
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We can only assume that the results would be much better on a raw ketogenic diet.
I am sure those protein/ fat shakes used by the study patients are no where near as healing as raw grass fed fat trimmings, muscle meats and organ meats.
I also heard somewhere, that many cancer victims have a poor fat metabolism, so perhaps they may have greater trouble in adapting to a ketogenic diet, especially the cooked version that's used in the study
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We can only assume that the results would be much better on a raw ketogenic diet.
That would be my guess. It's amazing how well even a diet that included some processed and cooked food in it did, which suggests that there really is something to the ketogenic aspect. Of course, the study subjects didn't eat just shakes, they also ate "normal groceries" with the overall diet restricted to "less than 70g CHO per day." One patient didn't tolerate the diet, maybe he was one of those people you referred to with poor fat metabolism.
This wasn't the first study showing benefits on cancer from ketogenic diets. Here are a couple more:
Can a High-Fat Diet Beat Cancer?
By Richard Friebe Monday, Sept. 17, 2007
http://conditioningresearch.blogspot.com/2007/09/ketogenic-diet-and-cancerold-news.html
[The study was conducted by Dr. Melanie Schmidt and biologist Ulrike Kämmerer, both at the Würzburg hospital in Germany. The diet has been called "the Würzburg diet."]
What sounds like yet another version of the Atkins craze is actually based on scientific evidence that dates back more than 80 years. In 1924, the German Nobel laureate Otto Warburg first published his observations of a common feature he saw in fast-growing tumors: unlike healthy cells, which generate energy by metabolizing sugar in their mitochondria, cancer cells appeared to fuel themselves exclusively through glycolysis, a less-efficient means of creating energy through the fermentation of sugar in the cytoplasm. Warburg believed that this metabolic switch was the primary cause of cancer, a theory that he strove, unsuccessfully, to establish until his death in 1970.
...a considerable number of patients left the study because they were unable or unwilling to renounce soft drinks, chocolate and so on. [How sad] ....
The good news is that for five patients who were able to endure three months of carb-free eating, the results were positive: the patients stayed alive, their physical condition stabilized or improved and their tumors slowed or stopped growing, or shrunk. These early findings have elicited "very positive reactions and an increased interest from colleagues...."
The calorically restricted ketogenic diet, an effective alternative therapy for malignant brain cancer
Weihua Zhou, Purna Mukherjee, Michael A Kiebish, William T Markis, John G Mantis and Thomas N Seyfried
2007
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/4/1/5
"A dependency on glucose for energy together with defects in ketone body metabolism largely account for why the brain tumors grow minimally on either a ketogenic-restricted diet or on a standard-restricted diet."
Here are more Links on the role of sugar in cancer and low-sugar/low-carb diets as therapies:
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/2/1/30
http://conditioningresearch.blogspot.com/2008/11/more-on-low-carb-diet-as-cancer.html
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/5/1/33
http://conditioningresearch.blogspot.com/2009/01/sugary-diets-and-cancer.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19116885?dopt=Abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19116878?dopt=Abstract http://conditioningresearch.blogspot.com/2010/02/sugar-and-cancer.html
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20627603.500-cancers-sweet-tooth-becomes-a-target.html?full=true&print=true
http://conditioningresearch.blogspot.com/2010/05/sugar-and-cancer-more-studies.html
One of the early scientists who studied the cancer - sugar link was Nobel Prize Winner Otto Heinrich Warburg, who developed the Warburg hypothesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warburg_hypothesis).
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Phil, I belong to a local Weston A Price group and in this group is a health practitioner that is often impresses me. He wrote something I found very interesting lately on why high sugar levels reduce immune response that I'd like to share here. It's not exactly regarding a ketogenic diet, but I think it is pertinent while thinking about why a ketogenic diet works so well:
It has been known for many decades that sugar depresses the immune system. It was only in the 70s that they found out that vitamin C was needed by white blood cells so that they could phagocytize bacteria and viruses. White blood cells require a fifty times higher concentration, at least inside the cell as outside, so they have to accumulate vitamin C.
There is something called a phagocytic index, which tells you how rapidly a particular macrophage or lymphocyte can gobble up a virus, bacteria or cancer cell. In the 70s Linus Pauling knew that white blood cells needed a high dose of vitamin C and that is when he came up with his theory that you need high doses of vitamin C to combat the common cold.
But if we know that vitamin C and glucose have similar chemical structure, what happens when sugar levels go up? They compete for one another upon entering the cells. And the thing that mediates the entry of vitamin C into the cells is the same thing that mediates the entry of glucose into the cells. If there is more glucose around then less vitamin C will be allowed into the cell, and it doesn‘t take much glucose to have this effect. A blood sugar value of 120 reduces the phagocytic index 75 percent.
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Yes, that was part of the explanation I had read for why zero carbers don't get scurvy--the carbs compete with the vitamin C, so the less carbs you eat, the less vitamin C you need to consume. Another factor was that uric acid from meat may also prevent scurvy, in addition to vitamin C (Similar Functions of Uric Acid and Ascorbate in Man?, http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v228/n5274/abs/228868a0.html)
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I believe I read in Nora Gedgaudas' recent book Primal Body, Primal Mind that cancer cells require glucose or fructose for their metabolism, and a diet that is carbohydrate poor will literally starve them. If this is correct, it might provide a rationale for the benefits of a ketogenic diet, because a low-carb diet will necessarily reduce sugar intake.
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I believe I read in Nora Gedgaudas' recent book Primal Body, Primal Mind that cancer cells require glucose or fructose for their metabolism, and a diet that is carbohydrate poor will literally starve them. If this is correct, it might provide a rationale for the benefits of a ketogenic diet, because a low-carb diet will necessarily reduce sugar intake.
Hi Eric.
Cancer cells use sugars poorly at 1/10 the efficiency as regular cells. They have to ferment the sugars and produce uric acid in the process. They steal the nutrition from the rest of the cells and that is why people go into cachexia and look like skeletons even if they are eating. All the energy goes to the cancer cells. People rarely die from tumors themselves - they die from malnutrition. You are absolutely correct that a diet low in sugars starves out the cancer cells. When people are trying to fight cancer if they get rid of all carbs except the fruits that have anti-cancer properties, the cancer cells now starving readily take in the sugars along with the things that kill them. For this reason diets like the grape diet for instance work. There are quite a few fruits and vegetables with active cancer killing components. Processed sugars and grains are the first thing that any decent cancer diet removes. Cancer cells cannot survive a two week long fast like regular cells can - but when a patient is already weak the fast itself can kill the patient. Taking out all carbs though still provides nutrition to the weakened immune system and the rest of the body while starving out the cancer cells.
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I believe I read in Nora Gedgaudas' recent book Primal Body, Primal Mind that cancer cells require glucose or fructose for their metabolism, and a diet that is carbohydrate poor will literally starve them. If this is correct, it might provide a rationale for the benefits of a ketogenic diet, because a low-carb diet will necessarily reduce sugar intake.
Yes, that's what the evidence I shared shows and it's true that fructose is also implicated and recent research suggests that cancer cells thrive even better on fructose than glucose (and thus soda pop and juice boxes laden with processed, concentrated fructose are effectively ambrosia for cancer cells and when parents give their children these drinks it's not much different than giving them cigarettes):
Cancer cells slurp up fructose, US study finds
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/08/02/cancer-fructose-idAFN0210830520100802
...though I suspect that processed fructose is much more of a problem than fructose in raw whole fruits and veg.
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I'm not sure that most fruit juices are any better than other sugars except that they at least have a tiny bit of other nutrients - but what good are those nutrients if you are feeding the cancer cells more than the immune cells? When it comes to a cancer patient why take such chances except with the fruits that have been proven to have cancer killing components..... and these only work if the patient goes long enough with no sugars at all so that the cancer cells are so hungry that they are willing to take the poison with the sugar. Guess which kinds of fruits are the ones with the most scientific data backing up their anti-cancer properties -- all berries and especially raspberries. I'm sorry that I no longer have the links. The only way that these fruits become at all useful though is if the diet is otherwise devoid of other carbohydrates/sugars. If a ketogenic diet is healthy and will kill out all cancer cells anyway then with most cancers one would imagine that active cancer killing agents would not even be necessary - just the starvation of the cancer cells.
Btw - PaleoPhil is the one who first turned me onto the dangers of grains and sugars when my mother was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and what he shared was the foundation for ridding her of it. There are many cancer cures out there, but without understanding how a cancer cell feeds itself and stopping that process, any other therapy will be an uphill battle.
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Dorothy, would you like to tell more about how your mother recovered? How was her diet, did she fasted?
The sister and father from my SIL both had cancer, ovarian cancer and prostate cancer. Quite recently. Both got cured with fasting on certain vegetablejuices for 40 days. My SIL just told me about it when they visited a week ago. So intresting! But that is like ketogenic WOE, just fasting with vege juices. They live in Yugoslavia and have no money for other cancer-treatment. My brother sent them the juices from Sweden, they don't cost much. Imagine, they was not even fresh-juiced vegejuices, just organic pure juices in bottle! Still helped so much.
Inger
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so how does honey raw and/or fermented figure into this?
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That's an excellent question. Raw honey, like certain raw whole fruits, appears to have cancer-fighting properties rather than cancer-feeding.
Honey 'could help fight cancer'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4063377.stm
So all carbs do not appear to be alike and it may also depend on the individual. If I were treating my own cancer, I would go easy on the carby foods or possibly even eliminate them for a period, and would restrict them to the best cancer-fighting carby and semi-carby foods that I tolerate relatively well, like berries, carrots and maybe a little raw fermented honey.
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Dorothy, would you like to tell more about how your mother recovered? How was her diet, did she fasted?
The sister and father from my SIL both had cancer, ovarian cancer and prostate cancer. Quite recently. Both got cured with fasting on certain vegetablejuices for 40 days. My SIL just told me about it when they visited a week ago. So intresting! But that is like ketogenic WOE, just fasting with vege juices. They live in Yugoslavia and have no money for other cancer-treatment. My brother sent them the juices from Sweden, they don't cost much. Imagine, they was not even fresh-juiced vegejuices, just organic pure juices in bottle! Still helped so much.
Inger
Wow Inger, bottled juices. That's amazing.
This brings up a very important point. Every cancer patient has a compromised liver and pancreas and their bile systems are almost always backed up. That's why pancreatic cancer is the most deadly - the organ responsible for producing the enzymes to fight cancer is the organ that is ravished by cancer and unable to function. Sometimes a diet can work simply by taking some of the stress off the digestive system to let it heal. But there's a caveat.
I'll give you the example of my mother. She was very old and had had many diseases - most of which were well under control through diet having lived with me the previous 10 years. But when she was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer the doctors did not expect her to live more than a few weeks. They would not give me appointments for 6 weeks later and..... because they did not expect her to live they gave her (without telling us) only a temporary stent in her bile duct. The procedure was very hard on her so I had to curtail her fat intake to make it so that she would not have to go through it again until I was able to get rid of the cancer and then hopefully it would be able to be taken out entirely. With this, the stent that was only supposed to last 8 weeks at the very most lasted 8 months instead. But the lack of fat had it's repercussions. My mother started to shake and stutter but none of the doctors would address it because they expected her dead very quickly. They would not let us see a neurologist until very close to the end of her life when they finally figured out that she lived so long that it was worth addressing. What was happening was that she had been misdiagnosed FIFTYYEARS earlier as having had a stroke when it was actually the start of Parkinson's Disease that had progressed very slowly. Without the good fats and with the intense immune stimulation that I was giving her with her cures (Parkinson's Disease is an auto-immune disease) her PD went into over-drive. Her central nervous system broke down. When she died a year later she had no cancer - she died because her central nervous system gave out. At the very end Phil was able to help me to bring her back from delirium. With a permanent stent in I could feed her good raw fat. She was then able to die in her senses, in no pain at all (unlike the terrible death pancreatic cancer would have been) and with no medications so that she could go peacefully in the middle of the night at home. But, if I had not removed the good fats because of the stent she would probably still be here and relatively healthy.
It is vitally important not to decrease other aspects of one's health in the process of getting rid of cancer. Cancer is as easy as pie to get rid of if you do not use the modern medical approach. The trick is to increase your general health at the same time!
The human central nervous system needs good fats..... yet..... with cancer the ability to process fats can be compromised. There are ways to support the body in being able to heal the liver/pancreas/bile system to better handle good fats.
The reason that the Budwig diet is so successful is because it takes flax oil and by-passes the liver by combining it with sulfured dairy. Another approach might be to help the liver to be able to do it's job well again. One way that many approaches use is to do liver flushes/cleanses like carrot and beet juice and other such things. The problem with these is that they can be quite a strain and would not allow the body to go into pure ketogenisis like what is being suggested in this thread. I could not do such things with my mother because with bile duct stent bile stones/slush could have gotten stuck. What I did instead was use peppermint - which literally dissolves bile stones and sludge and very very gently, but quickly and efficiently, cleanses this system and makes it stronger. Before I started it she was building up enough stones that they were contemplating taking out her gall bladder, but within a couple of months the stones and even sludge were pretty much gone. I highly recommend peppermint tea, tincture and oil to cleanse the bile. The other powerful ally could be milk thistle plant. It is a marvel at strengthening and supporting the liver. Lecithin might also be useful as it helps to break down fat.
One can avoid fat to de-stress compromised organs, one can by-pass the organs like in the Budwig protocol or one can try to rebuild and strengthen the organs. If it were me, knowing what I now know about how pivotal the central nervous system is to everything, I would choose to gently cleanse and strengthen the organs while giving the body the very best possible fats possible and not deprive the overall system of such important nutrients if at all possible. Gerson originally gave people raw liver because giving a person liver - strengthens their liver!
If you are on a ketogenic diet the cancer cells have to die. Logic dictates that it has to work because the cancer cells will have to starve. The trick is to do a ketogenic diet in a way that does the least amount of stress to the organs and supports the organs.
The last thing a cancer patient needs is poor quality meats with hormones, ingested pesticides etc. and with a compromised liver getting rid of the toxins that cooked meat produce is going to be even more of a challenge.
There are herbs that are used to fight parasite and bacteria that also fight cancer. If one is worried about eating raw meat with a compromised immune system these resources might also be used.
I'm sorry if this has gotten too long or if I didn't fully answer Inger's question - it's just that what I posted here I feel are things I learned that are most pertinent and too important to leave out for cancer sufferers that might be reading this.
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I'll add my plumber who I coached how to cure his terminal liver cancer 6 months to live.
http://www.curemanual.com/2010/10/liver-cancer-cured-mang-bens-video-testimony/
- colon cleanse
- kidney cleanse
- liver flushing with apples and egg yolk liver flushing
- and eating some raw meat
He followed my curemanual.com best to what he can understand.
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I'll add my plumber who I coached how to cure his terminal liver cancer 6 months to live.
http://www.curemanual.com/2010/10/liver-cancer-cured-mang-bens-video-testimony/
- colon cleanse
- kidney cleanse
- liver flushing with apples and egg yolk liver flushing
- and eating some raw meat
He followed my curemanual.com best to what he can understand.
I read your curemanual I think before I even arrived at the forum GS. Wonderful that you have done that for people. :D That plumber must be very happy. It's ironic that the first person to ever tell me of a natural cure for cancer was a plumber. It's a beautiful thing you made and do for people.
I have helped others who ask - just about everyone will either get cancer or have a loved one with cancer in their lifetimes with the diet and environment as it is these days. It can be daunting at times how many people there are that need help, want help, but have been given such simply horrendous advice and total mis-information by their doctors.
There are so many great cures. Literally Hundreds. As long as you don't do chemo or radiation or surgery - the cure rates are phenomenal.
Cutting out fake toxic foods, grains and processed sugars is often enough just by itself for slow-growing cancers. The immune system just has to be given a chance.
If chemo or radiation were done - there are STILL highly effective methods but by that time diet to improve the immune system is no longer enough because chemo and radiation destroy the immune system and organ function. But...... if there is time and any money at all left for alternative therapies that target cancer cells directly you can still do it. So much better to just help your body to heal from the beginning and not make it harder on the body.
There are cures that have been around from the 1950's with 90% cure rates - for all that time. How easy it is to cure cancer is a massive cover-up to preserve the big business that it is.
The ketogenic diet that we are discussing here has the added benefit of also being generally great for people with a host of other maladies as well. It is so good for the central nervous system that it is a highly successful therapy for children with seizure disorders.
Well - just wanted to put my two cents in how much hope there is and a few hints on what I would do to enhance fat metabolism if necessary. This is a great thing you are making here Phil. You might never know how many lives you save or make better with this - but a good work it most definitely is.
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so how does honey raw and/or fermented figure into this?
Not every cancer is a fungus.
Some cancers are metabolic.
High fat high carb will increase metabolism and get rid of cancer.
Something like the theories of 180 degree health matt stone.
My friend Vander Gaditano has mastered this art of healing metabolic cancers.
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Not every cancer is a fungus.
Some cancers are metabolic.
High fat high carb will increase metabolism and get rid of cancer.
Something like the theories of 180 degree health matt stone.
My friend Vander Gaditano has mastered this art of healing metabolic cancers.
I'm sorry GS - I'm a bit confused. Who said that cancer is a fungus?
The link Phil posted regarding honey said,
But they suggest they (honey products) may cause apoptosis (cell suicide) or have direct effects which are toxic to the cells, or which help the immune system fight the development of tumours.
I thought that the question regarding honey was about the ketogenic diet and if it counted as a sugar/carb to be avoided or not???
By the way "apoptosis" in the quote above can mean the normal death process of the cell. There are cures that are based upon killing out the microbe within the cancer cell and making it back into a normal cell so that it will die a normal death. Honey is anti-bacterial, anti-viral and anti-fungal so part of how it might be working is by making the cells normal again by killing out the microbe. The best thing about these therapies is that they do not make for all the swelling, mess and clean up that therapies that directly kill cancer do so the process can be much faster. One of the big challenges of alternative therapies are that so many of them are so good at killing cancer cells that the detox from them can become a problem if done too fast.
Perhaps honey fits into the same category from what Phil posted as sugars linked to components that have been proven by science to have cancer cell killing properties. I have a list somewhere of all the common foods I could find like this if anyone is interested in incorporating a direct cancer-killing aspect to their ketogenic diet approach or who might not be able to get rid of all sugars/carbohydrates.
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I'm not convinced that the cause of cancer is ever a fungus like candida. I think it's more likely that since both drug-resistant forms of candida albicans ("Defined Anaerobic Growth Medium for Studying Candida albicans Basic Biology and Resistance to Eight Antifungal Drugs," http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC434226/) and cancer cells can survive or even thrive in low-oxygen environments, that they both tend to grow out of hand in certain people who have low-oxygen systems due to intakes of hypoxia-inducing foods, like heated refined grains and sugars, and other factors. By cancer I mean malignant neoplasms characterized by uncontrolled cell growth or division, invasiveness or metastasizes.
http://www.giveittomeraw.com/forum/topics/i-had-an-epiphany-regarding?page=24&commentId=1407416:Comment:1519184&x=1#1407416Comment1519184
Reply by Dorothy:
I want to add one more that I've been thinking about helping Mom lately:
Oxygen.
Cancer cells are actually cells that revert to primitive cells. It's like they know to go back to functioning the way they did before there was oxygen on the planet or something. The cells go back to surviving in the low oxygen, high ph environment that is what causes cells to turn into cancer cells. They replicate like primitive cells and never die.... they go back to one cell organism pre-animal status!
But - when a cell can get oxygen it turns back into a normal cell! Now, how do cells get oxygen? Through the blood of course.
If your blood is flowing well enough, then all the cells get the oxygen they need not to become cancer cells.
I've been giving Mom and Boogie cesium which binds to potassium in the blood stream and the primitive cancer cells let it in and can't get it out and then the cancer cell is oxygenated and by definition - no longer is a cancer cell. It dies or is cleaned up by the immune system.
Mom's oxygen levels taken with a finger monitor have gone up to my levels .... and I don't even give her much cesium yet.
Blood brings the breath of life.... oxygen.
Yes, I don't know anything about this cesium (chloride?) therapy, but I think you are onto something with the primitive cell idea. The most primitive cells also reproduced asexually, by splitting, as I understand it, which is what cancer cells do. So from the cell's perspective, going cancerous is not a pathology, but a survival technique in a low-oxygen, high-acid environment. Fix the environment, and you prevent or even possibly stop or reverse cancer cells. Warburg and others tried to explain some of these concepts, but when surplus mustard gas was converted into chemo drugs and were found to be quite profitable, people stopped listening to Warburg. The modern world is driven more by short-term profit than long-term health optimization, unfortunately.
The higher life forms require oxygen to live, whereas to the more primitive, ancestral microscopic life forms like cancer cells, oxygen is death. Mitochondria are descended from aerobic bacteria that were one of the earliest life forms to thrive on oxygen. An oxygen-boosting diet not only inhibits cancer cells, it promotes mitochondria biogenesis. Treat your mitochondria well and they will treat you well.
What causes low-oxygen environments? One thing is refined carbs like refined wheat flour, refined cane sugar and HFCS.
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Phil - You saved that! Warms my heart. :-*
Even colloidal silver/dmso therapy which has been the most important for us personally is based upon how (because of the low oxygen high ph environment) the cancer cell becomes home to a microbe that can live in such an environment. Killing off the microbe changes the whole dynamic of the cell. The therapy also takes stress off of the rest of the immune system which is having to struggle in a low oxygen environment.
Remember how I did all that research on how almost all alternative therapy foods/supplements/diets had blood thinning components? I made long lists. What carries the oxygen? How do the components of the immune system get themselves to the cancer cells to fight it? Blood flow. Many green vegetables are extremely high in certain forms of k2 and thicken the blood. If someone is a bleeder they eat lots of salads to slow it down. Eating some greens will help the body to clot (which is obviously important if not overdone) - but the last thing you want to do with a cancer patient is have them clot more readily as their blood is likely already not flowing well enough. That is why 10zymes is such a valuable supplement for cancer sufferers. Not only does it have the pancreatic enzymes that are in such low supply with the compromised pancreases of cancer patients, but it also has nattokinase which is an enzyme that the pancreas makes to thin the blood when necessary. The better the blood flow - the more oxygen.
Another substance that is important when it comes to blood thinning is salicylates. Salicylates block the absorption of vitamin k and therefore have a blood thinning action. Aspirin (which is derived from white willow bark which is a cancer treatment herb) has a high concentration of salicylates. Many fruits have a high concentration as well including cherries, cranberries, blueberries, grapes, strawberries, oranges and tangerines. Honey is also high in salicylates.
Generally most meat, fish, dairy, grains and vegetables are not high in salicylates, but many types of fish do however have blood thinning properties due to their omega-3 fatty acid content. Grains however can actually thicken the blood.
Most of the longest living cultures have at least one tea that they drink that is blood thinning. Green tea would be an example. In a paleo diet the inclusion of berries would keep the blood thin and flowing and berries have many other substances that fight cancer in them - each berry has different cancer-fighting elements - but berries came up constantly during my research. Our ancestors also exercised and were outside much more than us. Exercise and vitamin D both thin the blood.
My suggestion to people using the ketogenic paleo diet to treat cancer that are not getting outdoors into the sun enough and getting exercise is to include a vitamin D supplement. Talk to your doctor about testing your vitamin D levels because they might be able to prescribe for you a much more easily absorbable form. Most doctors will test vitamin D levels if asked to. But if you can get outside into the sun and go for a walk, it is an important aspect of the diet and part of the reason why our ancestors did not get cancer. Just sitting outside on the grass and letting your bare feet touch the earth is powerful medicine.
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Blood flow talk:
Don't forget cayenne.
Vander uses niacine full flush.
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GS and Dorothy,
That's great the story about the plumber. ;D It's so appropo that cleaning out our plumbing is the source of health. People look to eat more nutrients to solve everything, when really we just need to have an awesome "dump" ;D
BTW, Sorry for the length of this post but as it is I had to leave out a lot. ;D
Essentially this is what Ayurveda says about cancer and indeed every disease. (other than external things like car accidents or snake bites)
Ayurveda says that when you eat inappropriate foods or subject your senses to inappropriate stimuli or have improper posture you will get disease(s)
The process is referred to by one writer (Dr. Vasant Lad) as the tap, drip, bucket, empty field weed theory ;D I have included some of his info from his book "Ayurveda, A Complete Guide To Clinical Assessment"
In a field you hava tap on a post arranged above a bucket. The tap slowly drips into the bucket and it takes awhile to fill the bucket. All the while the field is empty of weeds. However when the bucket finally fills up, the water starts to spill over the side onto the ground and that's when the weeds start to grow. The weed varieties are endless as are the disease types.
When you eat foods or consume other sensory objects that are inappropriate, as in your body cannot digest them (for a wide variety of reasons) the undigested foods, sense objects are generally expelled out the anus/urethra/nose/belly button/lungs/skin/ears etc.
Disease stage 1 Toxin Accumulation - However some of the undigested matter (Ama) will stick around. The crap (technical term ;D ) will cause issues in the GI tract somewhere. May be experienced as constipation, abdominal distension, or gases in the colon, heat around the belly button, slightly yellowish discolouration of the whites of the eyes or dark yellow urine or heaviness, lethargy, fullness of the stomach and low appetite. The intelligence is still alive at this point and the person may feel an aversion to whatever caused the issue.
Disease stage 2 Provocation - The crap (Ama) starts to fill up the target area. At this point you may start to feel symptoms, such as cough cold, congestion, acid indigestion, heartburn, nausea, pain in the flanks, or mid back, hyperperistalsis gurgling and even breathlessness. At this point a dietary change will suffice to cure the issues/imbalance. Once the disease process progresses past the GI Tract and has entered the third phase it is difficult to restore balance on one's own and the advice and guidance of a health pro is usually needed.
Disease stage 3 Spread - The doshas (sort of like crap, but specific crap ;D ) leaves the initial spot and start out for the next place where it can continue to build up. Remember it has no use as it is undigested material. It could go anywhere causing a wide variety of symptoms that have no relationship with the crap. Might cause dry skin, goosebumps, cold hands and feet, ringing in the ears, tingling and numbness, quivering thighs, heartburn burning eyes, acidic sweat, hives rashes, urticaria, burning sensation etc, water retention, sinus congestion, lymphatic congestion, heavy breasts, excessive salivation, a heavy feeling in the head, cold clammy skin, etc.
Disease stage 4. Deposition or Localization - Crap (dosha) moves into a spot that has a weakness or defect due to previous trauma, genetic predisposition, accumulated emotional stress, repressed emotion, or other factors. Like a pothole in a road. The characteristics of the dosha (cold dry light, heavy, etc) build up in the spot and encroach on the qualities of the Dhatu (tissue) The seeds of disease start to sprout. If the tissue is strong/mature it will not allow the dosha to enter, but if the tissue is immature it will enter into it. At this point the full blown disease has not manifested. At this point, the newly arrived, aggrivated dosha creates confusion within the celular intelligence of the weaker tissue and can overwhelm it, changing it's normal qualities. The prodromal signs and symptoms of disease are clearly seen at this stage. The disease has still not shown on the surface at this point, but can be detected by a skilled physician or recognized by imbalances in the doshas and via pulse diagnosis. An alert person can feel this stage and if not interrupted will result in a full blown disease.
Diseases 5th stage Manifestation. Changes become obvious and the cardinal symptoms of the disease become apparent. The dosha (crap) has conquered the Dhatu (Tissue) The qualities of the doshas (dry hot, cold, light heavy etc) affect the functioning of the dhatus, srotas (channels of inspiration or expiration ie blood vessels). For instance dry rough (vata) in the joints will cause cracking and deformity of the articular surface of the joint and intense pain. or Pitta hot sharp oliy sour and pungent may cause inflammation, irritation, and burning sensations, the heavy slow cool oily dense gross and cloudy qualities cause stagnation, congestion,obstruction, and swelling
Disease 6th stage Differentiation of disease, destruction, of tissues and complications. - In this stage structural changes manifest. Complications of other organs also become evident. This is the final expression of the disease process as it has manifested along with complications. EG. vata may not only affect the joint space but also the surrounding soft tissue, leading to such problems as muscle wasting, frozen joints and deformity. The disease is most difficult to treat at this stage.
Another way to look at it is that in your cells there is an intelligence (it has a name but I cannot remember it) it is like your mother in that it wants you to live and thrive. When the toxins start to build up in the cells, it starts a fight. It fights and fights, but at some point it loses it and starts going crazy and starts gets the idea that it needs help so it starts speeding up the multiplication of cells because "guddammit" this is war. It's you or me. This crazy speeding up of cell division is called cancer.
Sooooooo in Ayurveda there are a number of methods of stopping this process in it's tracks....
1. eating the proper foods in the first place. (for your body type) Eating proper combinations of foods. Eating in proper proportions, at the proper time of day. Food prepared by someone who loves you, avoid toxic things etc. Taste is frequently the first line of defence. Raw foods are less likely to fool the taste buds in my experience. You can take some pretty disgusting food and with a bit of spices make it palatable but downstream you can have problems.
2. Be aware of your body so that if something is improper or affects you in a "not good way" you avoid eating it.
3. If you do ingest crap, know how to counteract it.
4. Periodically (typically at the end of a particular doshic season) you do a cleansing. Pancha Karma is the penultimate, comfy, pleasurable, wonderful way but any of the more barbaric methods can be used. If these methods are too barbaric they will aggravate you also making it less likely you will do them again. Pancha Karma can be learned and mothers would be well advised to massage babies regularly to help in this process of cleaning out dosha. It's not magic, it's easy and the baby will love it.
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GS - the list is too long to go into here. I'm already talking too much! I just kept it to the obvious paleo blood thinners. Cayenne is tops of course. I would put tumeric in front of it for cancer though.
I really want to say something to anyone who arrived here that might be in the position of their doctors and family members trying to make them do things that they don't want to out of fear. I want to tell you what your doctor won't/can't.
Usually, tumors themselves won't kill you. Nope. Not unless they are in places where they are blocking the flow of an important fluid or in the brain or in your pancreas that you need so much to fight with. There are three things that put you in danger.
1. Metastasis. This is where the cancer spreads. This is as easy as pie to prevent. All you have to do is take a product called pectasol C. It's a modified fruit pectin that makes it so cancer cells are not able to embed anywhere when travelling through the blood and it is scientifically proven. Not even Sloan Kettering could come up with anything bad to say about it.
2. Angiogenesis: This is where the cancer makes new blood vessels so that it can grow. This still won't kill you in and of itself unless blocking something but anyway - this is usually a slow process when you stop feeding the cancer. The cancer must have food to grow which you are denying on a ketogenic diet and there are many foods that actively block angiogenesis including ...... you got it ........ berries.
3. Cachexia: This is where the tumor gets so big or spreads so much that it steals all your sugar and nutrition and you starve to death. This is really how most people die of cancer. Remember - healthy cells can use fat and the mutant throw-back ancient cells can't. Your good cells will have food to fight and your cancer cells will get weaker. If you are not already in cachexia - if you use alternative therapies - you will probably never get to this point.
What they won't tell you is that as long as you are fighting the good fight you usually have much more time. When you start starving out the cancer and start oxygenizing and changing your ph you gain more time. Their doom and gloom numbers no longer have the same meaning. If the tumor can't spread, if you are stopping it from growing, if you are still getting nutrition..... you are not dying.
Remember - once you destroy your immune system and severely toxify your body and destroy your organs with chemo and radiation - you might get rid of the tumor, but you will still die. Everyone has cancer cells all the time. You need to get to the cause not the symptom and a tumor is a symptom... and one that is NOT usually as scary as they tell you. With allopathic treatment the tumor may be gone but now the body has ruined organs, ruined immune system and tons of toxins to deal with when the liver was already overwhelmed. Research the side affects of the treatments being offered to you before proceeding. The big question to think about is after that one tumor is gone...... what will happen with all those new cancer cells that everyone makes all the time?
Treat the cause, not the symptoms and think about your long-term survival and make yourself healthier over time. Ask your doctor what the permanent cure rate with no recurrence will be of their treatment, about the side affects, and then compare it to the permanent cure-rates of the alternative treatments. Don't be frightened into impulsive action that you might regret later.
It's your life. Make your own decisions. Don't let yourself get bullied into being maimed or dying just to put money into someone's pocket. Don't believe me either - I'm just someone who read a bunch instead of listening to the hype. Take a deep breath, relax. There are people out there that have healed completely from the kind of cancer you have. Do your own research and THINK because nobody else is in your body but you and it is ultimately your responsibility. Your family and your doctor do not have to live in your body. You do.
I was writing this same time as you were writing your Ayurvedic lesson Raw-al. That was fabulous to read. Thank you.
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Thanks Dorothy,
I had no idea.
One thing I can continue on is that by the time you have gotten to the cancer stage, Ayurveda is running out of options and the physician can really just make you more comfortable. Maybe in the future as more well trained Ay. physicians are produced and they combine their knowledge with modern allopathy new methodologies can be morphed.
Ay. physicians are like any other professional, there are good ones and good schools and the opposite. When the English moved into India they did their best to destroy the Ay. schools and essentially succeeded in destroying a lot of the knowledge.
I have read about barefoot Ay. physicians living in austere places in the forests of India having successfully treated patients with what can only be described to a "modern" person as bizarre treatments. I watched videos of some of these treatments, all based on Ay. principles and they work. Funnily enough the traditional methods of preparing herbs cannot be duplicated or improved upon by modern methods and produce the same efficacy.
I think that the precursors to Ay. were the inborn knowledge that people had to prevent disease in the first place. They possibly knew that when they felt a certain way they would eat a certain thing.
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Many green vegetables are extremely high in certain forms of k2 and thicken the blood. If someone is a bleeder they eat lots of salads to slow it down. Eating some greens will help the body to clot (which is obviously important if not overdone) - but the last thing you want to do with a cancer patient is have them clot more readily as their blood is likely already not flowing well enough.
Vitamin K reportedly is not as much of a problem in this way as previously thought, as it reportedly has "no effect on the platelet-blocking effects of aspirin or fish oil":
Vitamin K should have no effect on the platelet-blocking effects of aspirin or fish oil. The majority of blood clot inhibiting effects of aspirin and fish oil arise from their ability to keep blood platelets from "clumping" (just like the TV commercials for Plavix).
Vitamin K, on the other hand, participates in the liver production of blood clotting factors (like II, VII, IX, and X, among others for you curious ones).
Thus, vitamin K-dependent clotting factors and platelet-blocking are two separate pathways to forming blood clots. Some of us refer to the difference as "red clots" from the vitamin K pathway and "white clots" from the platelet pathway, since they really do have this different physical appearance. --Dr. William Davis, cardiologist, http://www.wellsphere.com/heart-health-article/vitamin-k2-aspirin-fish-oil-and-blood-thinning/239788
So if someone whose blood clots too readily due to platelet clumping is taking fish oil or aspirin, it may be OK to take vitamin K2 also, but they should check with their physician (though the physician may be unaware of this, so they may want to show their physician Dr. Davis' article).
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Oh yes Phil - they are two completely different actions and Mom's doctors explained them to me in detail. Mom had a form of cancer that caused such extreme blood clotting that it was imperative for me to learn all I could about it.
Plavix and Coumaden work very differently from each other as well. Heads up - the tests used for viscosity for Coumaden do not work for Plavix.
When someone is on coumaden and they change too fast how many greens they eat they can bleed to death internally. All patients taking coumaden have to be careful about eating certain vegetables and keep the amounts stable. But there are MANY other natural food blood thinners that they don't warn you about. That's not the case with Plavix. There are now new drugs that are massively dangerous blood thinners. If you are on such drugs you need to understand how all of it works.
For the cancer patient not on drugs Vitamin K and salicylates are important but not usually delicate issues. One can of course eat greens, but it has to be taken into consideration and balanced with opposing forces.
As a cancer patient - if you are not already on blood thinners - the trick it would seem to me is to make sure that you are getting some form of natural blood thinning foods/herbs/enzymes that are also cancer fighters and not worry too much about the particular action and if you are eating a great deal of foods high in salicylates to recognize that this can also have a blood thickening affect and take it into consideration - maybe have some foods with blood thinning action too.
I think if you aren't on allopathic blood thinners or Bayer type aspirin that the details of the difference aren't going to make that much of difference. The whole idea is just to make sure that you are doing something to help your blood flow better and not doing too much to goop it up.
Not very scientific I know - but sometimes it can get just too overwhelming for the average person who is just trying to figure out how to go about fighting their cancer. It might be as easy as having a cup of peppermint tea every day. It will dissolve bile sludge, help your liver, thin your blood a little and help with digestion.
It's not usually too complicated in practice.
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I have no idea if this is useful. I got it from a friend
http://cancerdefeated.com/newsletters/This-light-therapy-really-IS-a-miracle-cure.html?trk_msg=NOMU7SL9M064N8TULRFUBK80G4&trk_contact=3E91L3OKCHRU8L2FFF5V73Q8Q8 (http://cancerdefeated.com/newsletters/This-light-therapy-really-IS-a-miracle-cure.html?trk_msg=NOMU7SL9M064N8TULRFUBK80G4&trk_contact=3E91L3OKCHRU8L2FFF5V73Q8Q8)
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Surprise surprise!
http://www.naturalnews.com/040230_cancer_research_false_conclusions.html (http://www.naturalnews.com/040230_cancer_research_false_conclusions.html)
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I'm not sure how true these alternative treatments are, but I've heard good things about laetrile, or vitamin b17 being an effective treatment for cancer.
After watching the documentary "world without cancer" on youtube, I felt the science was convincing. I purchased the book and was even more persuaded.
Since then I've been eating 9 raw apricot seeds daily.
You can find tons of info on vitamin b17 by google searching "vitamin b17 cancer," "world without cancer," etc.
They don't mention that other animals eat raw diets, and generally live healthier, toxin free lives. But rather that most animals have a preference for Vitamin B17 rich foods. They also show populations consuming large amounts of laetrile rich foods have very low cancer rates. While places with very low consumption have very high rates of cancer.
Something else I've read about is iodine's ability to prevent breast cancer. For example in Japan they have some of the lowest breast cancer rates, and the highest consumption of iodine. I read online that the breasts, like the thyroid, benefit from iodine.
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"I have no idea if this is useful"
"I'm not sure how true these alternative treatments are"
Thank you folks for saving me time with a very helpful filtering service by honestly sharing that you do not regard these treatments highly enough to investigate them further or praise them. If you decide to investigate further and learn anything interesting, or experience any benefits, please do share. I mean that sincerely, because I've learned that our friends can provide very helpful filtering services so that I do not need to investigate every lead. I will follow your lead on these.
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"I have no idea if this is useful"
"I'm not sure how true these alternative treatments are"
Thank you folks for saving me time with a very helpful filtering service by honestly sharing that you do not regard these treatments highly enough to investigate them further or praise them.
After watching the documentary "world without cancer" on youtube, I felt the science was convincing. I purchased the book and was even more persuaded.
I watched the hour long documentary, and then I read the 250 page book. I'd say I investigated it plenty. When I say I don't know of its true effectiveness, I'm simply saying I've never first hand seen it cure someone's cancer. I've seen niacin and certain b vitamins work wonders for schizophrenia, so I can personally say it works very well. But I've never had cancer, nor seen anyone with cancer use vitamin b17.
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I watched the hour long documentary, and then I read the 250 page book. I'd say I investigated it plenty.
So would I, which is why I didn't say that you hadn't and said "to investigate them further," rather than "to investigate them" period. I tried to make that clear, as I was concerned that it might be misinterpreted in the way you seem to have taken it, and I apparently botched the job. Sorry I wasn't clearer.
When I say I don't know of its true effectiveness, I'm simply saying I've never first hand seen it cure someone's cancer. I've seen niacin and certain b vitamins work wonders for schizophrenia, so I can personally say it works very well. But I've never had cancer, nor seen anyone with cancer use vitamin b17.
Yes, that's what I understood you to mean. I see that honest reports about what isn't yet convincing as true even after thorough research are also helpful, not just the things I mentioned in my original purpose for the thread--studies and successful anecdotes (and in similar way, unsuccessful anecdotes can also be helpful, come to think of it).
Thanks again DaBoss88 for doing the legwork and reporting candidly on it. I hope I've made my appreciation clearer this time.
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I should also add that I'm open to the hypothesis that the seeds of apricots and other fruits might have anticancer effects or other beneficial effects for some people in certain doses, and one possible mechanism is hormesis (ie, "the dose makes the poison" and "what doesn't kill me makes me stronger"). I even just posted a thread about a fruit seed that I've experimented with that also tastes pretty good (whereas most reports I've seen re: apricot seeds are that they don't taste good, though I may try some one day to see if I like them):
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/totally-raw-green-coffee/msg109447/#msg109447 (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/totally-raw-green-coffee/msg109447/#msg109447)
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apricot seeds are that they don't taste good, though I may try some one day to see if I like them):
They're very bitter.
The function of Vitamin B17 is through enzymes.
http://tagtag.com/apricotkernels/how_does_b17_kill_cancer_ (http://tagtag.com/apricotkernels/how_does_b17_kill_cancer_)
"So how does B17 kill cancer?
Firstly we need to understand that our bodies use several enzymes to perform many tasks. Our body has one particular enzyme called Rhodanese which is found in large quantities throughout the body but is not present where ever there are cancer cells. Yet, where ever you find cancer in the body, you find another enzyme called Beta- Glucosidase. So, we have the enzyme Rhodanese found everywhere in the body except at the cancer cells, and we have the enzyme Beta- Glucosidase found in very large quantities only at the cancer cell but not found anywhere else in the body. If there is no cancer in the body there is no enzyme Beta-Glucosidase.
Now the following is what scares most people. You see, Vitamin B17 is made up of 2 parts glucose, 1 part Hydrogen Cyanide and 1 part Benzaldehyde(analges ic/painkiller). So its very important you understand the following:
When B17 is introduced to the body, it is broken down by the enzyme Rhodanese. The Rhodanese breaks the Hydrogen Cyanide and Benzaldehyde down into 2 by-products, Thiocyanate and Benzoic acid which are beneficial in nourishing healthy cells and forms the metabolic pool production for vitamin B12. Any excess of these by-products is expelled in normal fashion from the body via urine. Vitamin B17 passes through your body and does not last longer than 80 minutes inside your body as a result of the Rhodanese breaking it down. (Hydrogen Cyanide has been proven to be chemically inert and non toxic when taken as food or refined pharmaceutical such as laetrile. Sugar has be shown to be 20 times more toxic than B17 - see good & bad cyanide).
HERE IS THE GOOD PART - When the B17 comes into contact with cancer cells, there is no Rhodanese to break it down and neutrelise it but instead, only the enzyme Beta- Gucosidase is present in very large quantities. When B17 and Beta- Glucosidase come into contact with each other, a chemical reaction occurs and the Hydrogen Cyanide and Benzaldehyde combine synergistically to produce a poison which destroys and kills the cancer cells."
Here is a video of someone who used Vitamin B17 to cure their cancer and remain in remission.
I BEAT CANCER WITH VITAMIN B17 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyvSmhrlJwE#)
Here is a video of the same person's update.
I Beat Cancer with Vitamin B17, Update (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5HelY7o2IE#)
A video of G. Edward Griffin (author of the book World Without Cancer) discussing Vitamin B17.
Apricot Kernels and Vitamin B17 with G. Edward Griffin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lASAVQjQEgQ#ws)
A video of the documentary "World Without Cancer."
G. Edward Griffen: A world without cancer (full movie) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3NNLs8llAY#)
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Cancer is cured by doing everything combined.
My latest thing, still finishing up.
http://cancerscamhartfordgroupinternational.com/how-to-cure-cancer-sponsored-by-hartford-group-international/ (http://cancerscamhartfordgroupinternational.com/how-to-cure-cancer-sponsored-by-hartford-group-international/)
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I have no experience with cancer, however I have many friends in various places in the world who successfully dealt with cancer using a variety of different modalities;
MMS
B17 Laetrile,
Rife machines
There are other methods but can't recall them immediately.
The only thing I can truly vouch for is the Rife device that a friend used on me to completely eradicate an enlarged prostate, and a liver issue with alinine transaminase.
If a person submits themselves to allopathic cancer treatment, they are nuts.
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http://www.rd.com/health/conditions/how-to-beat-cancer-twice/ (http://www.rd.com/health/conditions/how-to-beat-cancer-twice/)
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I have no experience with cancer, however I have many friends in various places in the world who successfully dealt with cancer using a variety of different modalities;
MMS
B17 Laetrile,
I have yet to meet someone who actually cures their cancer with B17. Could you describe their situation and how it worked for them in more detail?
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I have yet to meet someone who actually cures their cancer with B17. Could you describe their situation and how it worked for them in more detail?
I do not know the person personally, but I am taking the word of an author on the subject, Carmi Hazen who has written some books on cancer prevention and healing. There is more to it than just taking apricot seed pits. I am not familiar, but it involves also taking vitamin A and possibly one other item. It is in his books on the topic of cancer.
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I do not know the person personally, but I am taking the word of an author on the subject, Carmi Hazen who has written some books on cancer prevention and healing. There is more to it than just taking apricot seed pits. I am not familiar, but it involves also taking vitamin A and possibly one other item. It is in his books on the topic of cancer.
Right I've read that just like with Lugol's and the companion nutrients (b vitamins, sea salt, etc.) that with vitamin b17 you need certain enzymes, and perhaps a few other things. Also that it's helpful eliminating toxins from the diet.
Being that I don't have cancer, I just eat the seeds along with raw paleo, clean water, toxin avoidance, etc.
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I appreciate the contributions, Raw-Al, and I don't wish to come across negatively. I do want to recall the purpose of this thread in my original post is as a place to put studies and anecdotes/experiences relevant to the topic of cancer (and I expanded that to include reports by someone who has thoroughly researched a therapy about what hasn't shown promise, which I will take as a signal to not pursue it further until significant evidence does occur).
It's already been rather well established in this thread that plenty of people think apricot seeds/laetrile heal cancer but that it apparently hasn't yet produced much convincing evidence. If you have evidence that Carmi Hazen provided or know someone that it helped, please do post that. Please don't post in this thread about other people's claims without providing evidence to support them. You are free to do that in a thread of your own, of course. There are plenty of threads with unsupported health claims and I wanted this one to be different.
When it comes to authors, an example of the sort of evidence I'm looking for would be studies, research or biological mechanisms an author cited, rather than just the author's name or title of a book. Another example of evidence would be your own experience, the experience of a friend, or the experience of an active blogger that we could ask questions of. Thanks.
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There is no "one silver bullet" to cure cancer.
As such you will never be able to see any "study".
Its like raw pale diet and lifestyle, we all contribute our experiences.
Anecdotes rule in healing.
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Phil,
I know you are not trying to be negative, no need to explain, because you are not negative by nature.
In your original post you asked for amoungst other things anecdotal information.
Regarding Carmi Hazen I referred to his books, which is no different than you posting a study. You did not post the particulars of the study and neither did I post the particulars of his books. http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/comdyne (http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/comdyne)
http://www.health-recovery-info.com/2013/02/its-a-fact-cancer-is-a-metabolic-disorder/ (http://www.health-recovery-info.com/2013/02/its-a-fact-cancer-is-a-metabolic-disorder/)
Posting the contents of a book would be ridiculous, I merely pointed everyone in the direction of someone who has researched and treated people using various modalities, amoungst which dietary modification in the direction of raw foods is very prominently discussed.
The other thing I mentioned (in brief) is that I had an enlarged prostate, (typical for males my age) which is typically a premonitory symptom for cancer of the prostate.
I was completely cured in about an hour or two with my friend in South Africa running his http://rifemedic.co.za/products.html (http://rifemedic.co.za/products.html) on a sample of my DNA (piece of fingernail) sandwiched between the handholds of his Rife Medic 5. He simply ran the frequencies which are programmed into the unit. I was asleep in Canada, 13,074 Km away from him and his machine.
Because he is so busy treating friends and relatives he had no idea when he would treat me, so I had no clue when he would be doing it. When I awoke I felt this kind of a warm, vibration feeling and had no idea why. I went for a whiz and it flowed like it hasn't flowed for probably 35 years.
I was so shocked and gleeful, that I contemplated running into the kitchen to show my wife, but made the 'command decision' to wait till I was finished. ;D
The gentleman who treated me, had had cancer, was treated in the usual pharmaceutical way: Chemo etc with the usual result of being told to get his affairs in order and prepare to die. Then he heard about a lady healer who was treating people for various illnesses including cancer. He had no real faith in her methods, but since he was a goner anyways he decided to run it up the flagpole to see who would salute. Two weeks later (4 treatments) he was completely cancer free. His daughter also had cancer and was successfully treated.
So this started him getting a Rife Medic device and treating his friends and relatives for an incredible # of issues. He also has a 'fleet' (80) :) of racing homing pigeons that he treats.
After probably 4-5 years his healer friend was experimenting with the Rife device and discovered that she could treat someone with just a piece of DNA clamped between the handholds. So my friend started experimenting and using this method as it is so convenient. This form of long distance healing has been around since around the late 1800's early 1900's in various incarnations with a variety of different devices. That's where I presume she got the idea from.
Dr Keith Scott-Mumby discusses this in his book "Virtual Medicine"
http://www.amazon.ca/Virtual-Medicine-Dimension-Energy-Healing/dp/0935329021 (http://www.amazon.ca/Virtual-Medicine-Dimension-Energy-Healing/dp/0935329021)
Cancer is curable now with Dr. Keith Scott Mumby (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT6NpYHw760#ws)
He (my SA friend) has successfully treated (for cancer) approximately 8 people using this distance method, the last time I checked. Various forms of cancer BTW. His healer friend has succeeded in treating about 25 people last time I checked.
It's quite unusual the way he works in every aspect, but it works and he puts a lot of effort into his curing, which he does absolutely free. He has educated himself on cancer by scouring the internet on a daily basis for info on the various problems, coinfections etc. in treating cancer
His daughter is a former nurse and she happens to be psychic in that if she holds someone's DNA (in whatever form, hair fingernails etc) in her hands and closes her eyes, she can see the person's aura. She sees different colours, which she interprets with her background training, as various diseases. She then suggests what disease or what area/organ it is to her dad and so he does some research to get details of the potential illnesses or conditions and then starts researching the appropriate frequencies from a combination of the programs in his "Rife Medic", frequencies that others have used and looking up in what has become the Bible for Rife users,"The Rife Handbook" by Dr (PHd) Nenah Sylver. Rife Handbook - 2011 Hardcover Edition - by Nenah Sylver, Ph.D. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24cvWHHkvV4#) One of the problems that he runs into is that the people who come to him with an Allopathic Doctor's workup showing brain cancer in particular, is that the diagnosis is typically incorrect according to what his daughter sees, combined with what frequency sets he runs successfully. You see if he runs frequencies for XYZ and the problem is ABC then nothing will happen for the patient.
So he has developed an intuition for what it might be, based on his work with his daughter.
BTW Rife devices are not created equal and talent of the operator can enter into the results obtained.
Treating a patient with a Rife device is in two forms
1. A device with a lamp that uses frequency (the light is operating at a set frequency) is programmed to do the appropriate freq. and the subject simply sits in front of it. A treatment takes anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours depending on the illness. It's usually advised to drink lots of water before and after to assist the body in cleaning the dead virus, but some don't bother.
2. The patient holds onto the handholds of a device that generates frequency and converts it into an electrical impulse. Same treatment times as above.
Then some people (me) do the third method which is to put some DNA between the two handholds and run at lower power settings for longer periods of time. Sometimes a week or two, depending on the situation.
Difficulty is getting an exact diagnosis of the disease/pathogens. Also running at lower power settings is generally agreed to be better with long distance work, because it is more comfortable.
Interestingly my friend worked on two people with identical liver problems. One responded and the other didn't. Turned out that the non-respondee :) had had a liver transplant so their DNA sample did not match their received liver.
They've now found a device from China that when combined with a program that two guys have written will allow a $70 USD device and free software to do treatments effectively.
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Here is a thought to explain the efficacy of different modalities or curing techniques.
My friend is an Ayurvedic Doctor. (Vaidya) He has his masters in Ay.. What this means is that on top of the Ay training he has taken one year of Allopathic studies and specifically, he has learned about the drug system and how it relates to Ay.
He has learned how the various drugs available in the Allopathic arsenal affect a patient from an Ay. point of view, in other words how they affect the doshas, such as their affect on the 5 elements etc..
The reason I am saying this is that all healing methods will affect the disease from a different angle which explains why some people respond to a certain treatment while others do not respond at all or maybe even react negatively.
The same is true of foods for instance. Some do very well on garlic and some get very ill from it.
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DaBoss88, you come across as more sure of apricot seeds than your first comments. I appreciate your passion, which suggests to me that you do believe in their healing power already, yes? Have you noticed anything from them yet? Your more passionate comments and my own experience with coffee fruit seeds have piqued my curiosity, so I will try some apricot seeds to see if I notice anything and at least to see how they taste. I bought a couple apricots to start with. Do you dry the seeds before eating them? If lots of peoples eat them, then that suggests that they eventually taste good to them, yes? I read that almonds also contain the same active ingredient that apricot seeds contain. Do you eat almonds also?
Phil,
I know you are not trying to be negative, no need to explain, because you are not negative by nature.
Thanks, you too Raw-Al. I know you are trying to help. Your views are generally very different from mine, so disagreements may arise between us, yet I recognize your good nature and I hope any disagreements won't be interpreted as personal hostility. I actually find it helpful to have someone available who disagrees with me, to challenge my thoughts, which I think I've said to Tyler before.
You can disagree with my stated purpose of the thread, I just hope you'll respect my right to choose it. For me books are different than studies. Books are much longer. I did post the key finding of the study, plus a link to the full text for anyone interested in reading the whole thing. I agree that it would be ridiculously unthinkable for anyone to post the contents of a book in this forum. I can't imagine why you think I would want that. It would also be illegal if the book is copyrighted. That's not what I had in mind (nor do I want anyone to post the full text of a study in this thread--the key finding and a link are preferable). What would be helpful from those who have read books is a few important points, such as mechanisms, biological explanations, etc., plus some key evidences that the author provided to support them, and preferably a few of the supporting sources provided in the book.
I don't have the time or interest to read every book I see touted on the Internet. I'll say to you what I say to everyone who recommends to me a book--please give me a good reason to read it--in other words, share something from the book that shows how useful it is. The more effort I see someone put into this, the more persuasive I tend to find it. Less effort signals to me that the reader isn't really fully convinced by the book themselves. I don't know if the other stuff you posted is from the book, but what I've seen so far has not grabbed my interest, sorry.
I should warn you and others about which therapies don't currently interest me, in respect for your time and to I hope avoid any future potential bad feelings. I hope my open disclosure will not be interpreted as disrespect--I've read in other threads about Rife machines and similar devices, breatharianism, various forms of frequent/chronic cleanses/flushes/enemas/etc., and feces eating and I'm not interested in any of it. I'm only mildly interested in Ayurveda. Of the ancient medicines, it least fits with my own experience, which more closely matches what shamanic and Chinese medicine teach, particularly shamanic. I've investigated and written about another therapy in the past--antineoplastons--which is now looking to me like a dead end. That's all I can think of at the moment.
I hope that none of this will be interpreted as due to closed-mindedness. Surely, anyone such as myself who has been willing to try "rotted" meat/fish despite ridicule for doing so is more open-minded than most? I just wish to focus on what seem to me to be the most promising therapies--more on quality than quantity.
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Excellent reply Phil.
It s good to know where you stand. Some say that if you take a stand then you won't fall for anything. But then some say practice doesn't make perfect, it just makes permanent.
In this case, it means that if we continue thinking in the same we always have we never learn however you and most of the people on this forum have shown a willingness to stretch their boundaries.
I find that whenever I dismiss something out right, especially when I announce it on a forum or a conversation, something happens almost immediately to show me I was a bit hasty. :o -[
I wasn't trying to convince you to accept Ayurveda BTW, I was trying to convey that the different methods of curing cancer or any other disease may all work but each method will work better with one person or another and this may be easy to identify in a systematic way. TCM and many other systems have their methods of systemization and each system has it's upside.
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Thanks, Raw-Al.
I find that whenever I dismiss something out right, especially when I announce it on a forum or a conversation, something happens almost immediately to show me I was a bit hasty. :o -[
I can believe it. I hope nothing I've written comes across like that.
I wasn't trying to convince you to accept Ayurveda BTW, I was trying to convey that the different methods of curing cancer or any other disease may all work but each method will work better with one person or another and this may be easy to identify in a systematic way. TCM and many other systems have their methods of systemization and each system has it's upside.
Yes, that's how I took your meaning, and thanks again.
Maybe it will also help to explain that I'm influenced more by the culture of my own relatives and ancestors and neighbors (mostly "Celtic") than by cultures in which Ayurvedic medicine is traditionally practiced. It's somewhat foreign to me, and that's meant as explanation, not disrespect.
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DaBoss88, you come across as more sure of apricot seeds than your first comments. I appreciate your passion, which suggests to me that you do believe in their healing power already, yes?
Yes I'm quite confident in their ability even though I haven't had the opportunity to use them for cancer. I actually discovered their benefits before I really started on my own healing journey, around the time a family member was being treated for cancer with chemotherapy, drugs, etc.
I look back now and think I could have really made a difference for them. But also I think somewhere in my subconscious I realized that you really can lose it all if you don't get control of your health (they passed away), which helped me take control of my health.
Have you noticed anything from them yet?
I can't say for sure. Around when I added the apricot seeds, I also started SCD. And right before starting SCD, I started the supplements. Not long after starting SCD I started raw paleo. My healing journey has all happened so fast that I can't say this made me feel that, or that made me feel this. But the combination of all the things I'm doing definitely gives me a good sense of well being, optimism, and a positive outlook which I think all reflect good health (in addition to having no schizophrenic symptoms, weight loss, etc).
Your more passionate comments and my own experience with coffee fruit seeds have piqued my curiosity, so I will try some apricot seeds to see if I notice anything and at least to see how they taste. I bought a couple apricots to start with. Do you dry the seeds before eating them?
I buy them online at - http://www.ordershere.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=OH&Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=seed (http://www.ordershere.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=OH&Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=seed) - so I don't necessarily dry them or do anything to them. I take 9 every day and put them in a zip loc bag, then eat 3 with each meal (the plant part of the meal).
If lots of peoples eat them, then that suggests that they eventually taste good to them, yes?
Definitely. When I first started eating them they were very bitter, and I typically had to chase it down with water. However I've been doing it for a while and now I typically just chew and swallow, some times using some water to get what ever is stuck to my teeth off.
I read that almonds also contain the same active ingredient that apricot seeds contain. Do you eat almonds also?
I think it's more the bitter almonds that have high concentrations of B17. Although I think regular almonds have some (though not as much) B17. I don't eat almonds right now, I was when I first started. I've been avoiding nuts in general for the time being. I noticed better overall health without them.
Good luck with your experiments. I suggest going for organic apricots. I've noticed that a lot of non organic fruits don't have properly developed seeds.
FYI I also eat all the seeds from the other fruits I eat - apples, peaches, etc. I've even cut open the seed of a mango and tried to eat that. It was way to bitter for me, much more so than the apricot seeds. However I did blend the mango seeds with the mango flesh and made a "smoothie concoction," and was able to drink that (although it was still quite bitter).
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Thanks. Domesticated almonds do also contain amygdalin, just less of it.
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Here's a list of foods rich in B17.
http://www.vitaminb17.org/foods.htm (http://www.vitaminb17.org/foods.htm)
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By B17 do they mean amygdalin?
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By B17 do they mean amygdalin?
Basically, the terms laetrille, amygdalin and Vitamin B17 are used almost interchangeably.
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I have yet to meet someone who actually cures their cancer with B17. Could you describe their situation and how it worked for them in more detail?
The little brother to my best friend in high school had cancer from a very young age. His parents were more willing to trust that God could provide things in nature to heal and they didn't treat him with conventional methods of chemo, radios, etc. They told me ( and I believe them because of the great relationship we had) that he had been eating a few apricot seeds a day and his cancer went into remission. This is all before they even considered diet to be enough to destroy cancer outright and still ate basically SAD. Not full on refined grains every meal, but well close. However for as long as i knew them they only ate their own farm grown meat (goats, pigs, sheep, etc) so that may have been a large contributing factor in his recovery also, regardless of raw or keto.
My dad also healed cancer through a very painstaking process of near vegan (~20% meat, 40% veggies, 40% fruit, no refined sugars) and a handful of supplements: MMS mixed in with DMSO for uptake into cancerous area, IP6, Shark cartilage, some apricot kernels but very few due to western medicine convincing him it prevents the blood from receiving enough oxygen, and many more. I think he was taking about 20 supplements on top of a few different drink mixes that he'd combine with juice. It was no where near "natural" but at the time it seemed like it would "give the body a lot of nutrition and heal it." Sugar and fiber and cooked proteins and fat can destroy cancer with a few other supplements. Imagine having the diet right, I can see the supplements being entirely unnecessary.
I can speak from experience in this, that cancer is NOTHING compared to healing schizophrenia. Cancer is our government creating fear to motivate people to waste their money on becoming more sick. Like it "just happens" with "no explanation as to why" but they are so sure they can beat it.
Also, my dad went down to M.D. Anderson in Houston, TX to get more doctors' opinions on his cancer options and while there he looked at all the other patients being treated with chemo, radiation, and he said "they looked like jews at a holocaust concentration camp, and they were paying to be there".... talk about perspective huh? Cancer alone would never cause that kind of sickness in someone. You know they (Nazis) told the Jews that they were going to be cleansed when they sent them into gas chambers? It really breaks my heart to know that cancer can be battled quite easily (with the right motivation towards getting healthy and conviction in the face of the govt.) yet people see it as this big invisible enemy that the govt is working tirelessly day in and day out to cure, when in reality they have no motivation to really cure cancer (they can't with drugs anyways, it'll just come back) as long as a chemo treatment costs half a million USD.
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Here is the outrageous story of a provider of apparently useful alternative cancer therapies being driven out of business and jailed by a conspiracy of corrupt FDA, DoJ, competitors, and scammers.
Along the way he provides very interesting and detailed information on various alternative cancer therapies, and describes how profit motivates our modern culture to discard useful traditional knowledge.
There are six chapters online, which make for very compelling reading:
http://www.meditopia.org/chap1.htm (http://www.meditopia.org/chap1.htm)
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I wasn't going to say anything ,but I saw two references to Schizophrenia so I will suggest this :
http://ehealthforum.com/health/niacin-treatment-for-schizophrenia-t314742.html (http://ehealthforum.com/health/niacin-treatment-for-schizophrenia-t314742.html)
I have read this in a # of places and it is neither raw nor paleo and I do not know if it works.
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I wasn't going to say anything ,but I saw two references to Schizophrenia so I will suggest this :
http://ehealthforum.com/health/niacin-treatment-for-schizophrenia-t314742.html (http://ehealthforum.com/health/niacin-treatment-for-schizophrenia-t314742.html)
I have read this in a # of places and it is neither raw nor paleo and I do not know if it works.
Hmm I guess it's worth a shot because Niacin isnt really that "dangerous" as far as giving yourself time to adapt and getting over the flush. My bro went through narconon (awful place) and did sauna with Niacin in doses that were intended to flush every time, if he didn't get a flush he got more niacin. This "vitamin therapy" is very scientology based. Ron L. Hubbard seemed to believe that forcing "good" into the body could drive out the "bad" and he prescribed this kind of detox for a drug addict.
From a post:
3 g niacin
600 mg pyridoxin
50 mg zinc
200 mcg selenium
600 mg calcium
300 mg magnesium
10 000 IU vitamin D
2 g L-methionine
2 g vitamin C
Read more: Schizophrenia Forum - Niacin treatment for Schizophrenia. http://ehealthforum.com/health/niacin-treatment-for-schizophrenia-t314742.html#ixzz2VAs0tOih (http://ehealthforum.com/health/niacin-treatment-for-schizophrenia-t314742.html#ixzz2VAs0tOih)
Follow us: @ehealthforums on Twitter
honestly half the stuff in there negates itself out or just runs out of the system in urine... not even counting the material the vitamins are coming from. Vit c can be in many forms and all different forms affect uptake, just like all other nutrients.
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...it is neither raw nor paleo and I do not know if it works.
You've topped yourself, Raw-Al, that's the least enthusiastic recommendation I've yet seen in the forum. ;D
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I wasn't going to say anything ,but I saw two references to Schizophrenia so I will suggest this :
http://ehealthforum.com/health/niacin-treatment-for-schizophrenia-t314742.html (http://ehealthforum.com/health/niacin-treatment-for-schizophrenia-t314742.html)
I have read this in a # of places and it is neither raw nor paleo and I do not know if it works.
Niacin is very effective for schizophrenia. In fact my healing journey never would've gone anywhere if it hadn't started with the niacin. The niacin got rid of the negative symptoms I was having.
Other things that help
Clean diet - raw paleo
Clean water
Toxin avoidance
Thyroid health
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You've topped yourself, Raw-Al, that's the least enthusiastic recommendation I've yet seen in the forum. ;D
Well you see someone talked me into trying it. I read up about it on the net and have done 4 days and am up from 500 mg to 1750 so far. Some people say it;'s a great idea is all I really know.
But wow do you ever have one big bejeesely hot flash!!! :o
I know some guys who are schizophrenic and I know some of the drugs they use are not pretty, so I thought I would suggest it.
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electrical / energy / magnetic / remote healing is BIG. Super Big.
Electricity is BIG and we may need to start a thread on the entire electrical thing.
We are not living optimal paleo electrical / magnetic environment.
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But wow do you ever have one big bejeesely hot flash!!! :o
What does that mean? Sounds cool! ;D
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The use of vitamin B17 is just another tool in curing people with cancer and other illnesses.
Only a fool of a neophyte healer will depend on one single item for healing.
That is why healing is supposed to be "holistic".
And why "studies" on single variables to cure cancer are pointless.
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What does that mean? Sounds cool! ;D
Niacin is something that apparently we get in our foods naturally but if you are lacking it due to your diet etc. then supplementing it can be good. It has an effect on cholesterol. (As you may be able to tell I am not an expert on the subject.)
So if a person has plenty in their system or needs no additional then when they take it they will get what is known as a flush even with a low dosage.
The flush is like the feeling you would get if you stood naked on a boat on the ocean in midday sun in a tropical climate for a few hours. You get very hot and red as if you had a sunburn, in other words. Then not long after you get itchy which if you give into is never ending. Or so it seems.
For those who have low systemic levels you would not get the flush till higher dosages. So the idea is to start with say 100 mg and work up as high as I believe 6000 mg for some. In case anyone believes they are superman, I suggest a bit of caution here.
My wife wanted to go the hospital emergency and wound up with a few day headache. (She has a liver issue) You see I did not know better so I started with 500 mg and it didn't phase me at all.
For some people with heart problems, arthritis or Schizophrenia it is a Godsend.
I heard people talking about it on another group.
The use of vitamin B17 is just another tool in curing people with cancer and other illnesses.
Only a fool of a neophyte healer will depend on one single item for healing.
That is why healing is supposed to be "holistic".
And why "studies" on single variables to cure cancer are pointless.
Well said! Best to prevent in the first place, but if a person is faced with it, then hit it from as many angles as you can. Something will stick.
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Cure Cancer With The Ketogenic Diet! Elaine's Remarkable Story (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNLtVIfsEiY#ws)
Thanks for the link, LittleElefant.
Löwenherz
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/carnivorous-zero-carb-approach/cure-cancer-with-the-ketogenic-diet-elaine's-remarkable-story/msg106692/#msg106692 (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/carnivorous-zero-carb-approach/cure-cancer-with-the-ketogenic-diet-elaine's-remarkable-story/msg106692/#msg106692)
Thanks to LittleElefant and Löwenherz for this amazing cancer success story.
I tried an apricot seed. It looked like an almond and tasted like a bitter almond. Interesting.
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I tried an apricot seed. It looked like an almond and tasted like a bitter almond. Interesting.
I've never had a bitter almond. I've heard conflicting reports (just like with apricot seeds). Mainstream says it's toxic and can kill you, B17 supporters claim it's great.
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I meant it tastes like an almond that's bitter. I haven't tried a wild bitter almond.
This article contains a chart of cyanogen content:
http://www.foodsafety.govt.nz/elibrary/industry/Cyanogenic_Glycosides-Toxin_Which.pdf (http://www.foodsafety.govt.nz/elibrary/industry/Cyanogenic_Glycosides-Toxin_Which.pdf)
It looks like apricot seeds have about 1/5 the amygdalin content of bitter almond. Presumably the dose makes the poison and safety depends on the dose plus the context of the health of the person eating the seeds or nuts (such as glutathione level--the master antioxidant--which helps in detoxifying the amygdalin). I've seen extreme views on both ends of the spectrum, with some people worrying about the amygdalin in apple seeds and others believing that amygdalin is not toxic at any dose (which isn't true of any food).
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I meant it tastes like an almond that's bitter. I haven't tried a wild bitter almond.
This article contains a chart of cyanogen content:
http://www.foodsafety.govt.nz/elibrary/industry/Cyanogenic_Glycosides-Toxin_Which.pdf (http://www.foodsafety.govt.nz/elibrary/industry/Cyanogenic_Glycosides-Toxin_Which.pdf)
It looks like apricot seeds have about 1/5 the amygdalin content of bitter almond. Presumably the dose makes the poison and safety depends on the dose plus the context of the health of the person eating the seeds or nuts (such as glutathione level--the master antioxidant--which helps in detoxifying the amygdalin). I've seen extreme views on both ends of the spectrum, with some people worrying about the amygdalin in apple seeds and others believing that amygdalin is not toxic at any dose (which isn't true of any food).
The amygdalin content in an apple seed is very low. So low that you would have to eat an enormous amount to have a negative impact. Where would you get that many apple seeds. However it does negatively impact cancer cells from what I have read elsewhere. It compromises the surface of them and so kills them.
http://chemistry.about.com/od/healthsafety/f/Do-Apple-Seeds-Contain-Poison.htm (http://chemistry.about.com/od/healthsafety/f/Do-Apple-Seeds-Contain-Poison.htm)
http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/apples.asp (http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/apples.asp)
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This is the reason I have always figured fruit seeds to be eaten alongside the fruit. Animals don't discriminate against the seeds and often they are broken down by stomach acids when chewed. Not always so, but still.
I have never heard of a 'bitter almond' ... Is that an actual classification? And apricot seeds not only taste like an almond that's bitter, when left in your mouth for a few minutes, it will make them go numb. Flavor tip for drinking it down, use milk or the apricot fruit itself. Delicious.
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This is the reason I have always figured fruit seeds to be eaten alongside the fruit. Animals don't discriminate against the seeds and often they are broken down by stomach acids when chewed. Not always so, but still.
I have never heard of a 'bitter almond' ... Is that an actual classification? And apricot seeds not only taste like an almond that's bitter, when left in your mouth for a few minutes, it will make them go numb. Flavor tip for drinking it down, use milk or the apricot fruit itself. Delicious.
I love milk, but I wouldn't wash down apricot seeds with it.
Bitter almonds look like small almonds, maybe half the size.
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I meant it tastes like an almond that's bitter. I haven't tried a wild bitter almond.
This article contains a chart of cyanogen content:
http://www.foodsafety.govt.nz/elibrary/industry/Cyanogenic_Glycosides-Toxin_Which.pdf (http://www.foodsafety.govt.nz/elibrary/industry/Cyanogenic_Glycosides-Toxin_Which.pdf)
It looks like apricot seeds have about 1/5 the amygdalin content of bitter almond. Presumably the dose makes the poison and safety depends on the dose plus the context of the health of the person eating the seeds or nuts (such as glutathione level--the master antioxidant--which helps in detoxifying the amygdalin). I've seen extreme views on both ends of the spectrum, with some people worrying about the amygdalin in apple seeds and others believing that amygdalin is not toxic at any dose (which isn't true of any food).
I've seen conflicting views too. Most mainstream views are that the B17 is a toxin, and can kill you.
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/laetrile.html (http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/laetrile.html)
But the non mainstream views are that it is beneficial, and a necessary nutrient to prevent cancer.
http://www.worldwithoutcancer.org.uk/ (http://www.worldwithoutcancer.org.uk/)
FYI my brother has eaten approximately 20, maybe more just to see if it was toxic, with no ill effect.
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I've seen conflicting views too. Most mainstream views are that the B17 is a toxin, and can kill you.
QW is famous for using character assassination and every other dirty trick they can dream up so I am not sure how useful that link is. They also (if you have the time to read and check upon all their facts you are maybe a bit bored) fail to use science to back up their claims. They use hearsay (probably made up there is so much of it) They have lost so many battles in court that they are irrelevant. Their whole purpose is to trash people who threaten the drug cartel, not help humanity.
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I love milk, but I wouldn't wash down apricot seeds with it.
Bitter almonds look like small almonds, maybe half the size.
aww come on, don't dock it til you try it dude haha. Honestly, I know it sounds crazy, but the flavors compliment each other well.
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QW is famous for using character assassination and every other dirty trick they can dream up so I am not sure how useful that link is. They also (if you have the time to read and check upon all their facts you are maybe a bit bored) fail to use science to back up their claims. They use hearsay (probably made up there is so much of it) They have lost so many battles in court that they are irrelevant. Their whole purpose is to trash people who threaten the drug cartel, not help humanity.
Right, I don't take QW as credible at all, and I think I've seen posts here showing it's founded by someone who works for pharma.
Just wanted to show a source that shows they're "toxic."
I've also seen that healthy (non-cancerous) cells convert the Vitamin B17 into healthy substances.
"Normal healthy cells contain the enzyme Rhodanese which neutralizes the Benzaldahyde and Hydrogen Cyanide in B-17. It converts them to the useful nutrient compounds Thyiocyanate and Benzoic acid."
from - http://www.chrisbeatcancer.com/b17-laetrile-alternative-cancer-treatment-suppressed-50-years/ (http://www.chrisbeatcancer.com/b17-laetrile-alternative-cancer-treatment-suppressed-50-years/)
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Hi Raw-Al, I agree with you about apple seeds being harmless and maybe even beneficial. Two thumbs up! It's nice to find something I agree heartily on with you.
It's amazing what some folks worry about nowadays. A former coworker of mine warned me not to eat apple seeds because of potential cyanide poisoning, but I'm not concerned. My favorite apples are Dolgo apples, which are quite small. I eat everything but the stems. To try to avoid eating the itty bitty seeds and core would be a ridiculous waste of time, and quite possibly counter-productive.
I have never heard of a 'bitter almond' ... Is that an actual classification?
Hi Dr. D, I hope you don't mind a little humor--here's where you can find info on bitter almond:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bitter+almond (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bitter+almond)
Hi DaBoss88, Amygdalin is indeed a toxin, and I think that's why it's medicinal and theoretically might kill cancer cells (along with other plant food toxins). As with all plant toxins, "the dose is the poison" (and the medicine). The key question is, what is the right dose? It's a question that rarely gets investigated in studies because there's little or no profit potential. So I mostly do my own experimenting. (I try not to prescribe and any who try my experiments do so at their own risk.)
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Haha bravo good sir. I'm sorry, I kinda realized AFTER I hit send what I was really asking, and then I got distracted with work. Good site too haha.
I'll be more diligent in the future.
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Hi DaBoss88, Amygdalin is indeed a toxin, and I think that's why it's medicinal and theoretically might kill cancer cells (along with other plant food toxins).
I think that it depends on what enzymes are present that determines whether the benzaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide act as toxins or nutrients. The cancer site has enzymes that release the cyanide and benzaldehyde to destroy the cancer. While the rest of the body turns it into a useful substance.
"Normal healthy cells contain the enzyme Rhodanese which neutralizes the Benzaldahyde and Hydrogen Cyanide in B-17. It converts them to the useful nutrient compounds Thyiocyanate and Benzoic acid."
"There is no "free" hydrogen cyanide in Laetrile. When Laetrile comes in contact with the enzyme beta-glucosidase, the Laetrile is broken down to form two molecules of glucose, one molecule of benzaldehyde and one molecule of hydrogen cyanide (HCN). Within the body, the cancer cell-and only the cancer cell-contains that enzyme. The key word here is that the HCN must be FORMED. It is not floating around freely in the Laetrile and then released. It must be manufactured. The enzyme beta glucosidase, and only that enzyme, is capable of manufacturing the HCN from Laetrile. If there are no cancer cells in the body, there is no beta-glucosidase. If there is no beta-glucosidase, no HCN will be formed from the Laetrile (1)."
http://www.worldwithoutcancer.org.uk/laetrileandcyanide.html (http://www.worldwithoutcancer.org.uk/laetrileandcyanide.html)
That link gives a more detailed description. Of course like you mentioned anything in excess can be a toxin. So consuming 500 apricot seeds in one sitting is probably a bad idea.
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Although I have no evidence, I have a theory about 'benign' particles in our system. Phil you mention excess anything is harmful and I believe that anything that our body ingests and can't use is harmful.
Clearly our body can't use silica. It can't be broken down. Even when ingested the only 'real' danger occurs from a possible laceration. If the particles were finely ground and rounded smooth then they would pass naturally.
However I would like to argue that it doeant merely pass as if it was never ingested. The energy out body consumes trying to digest it, check it for disease/virus, using enzymes and acid to try to break it down all take their toll. Cumulatively, the body is worse off. Only that which is beneficial leaves the body better off after its departure.
so in essence, since we all have some cancerous (mutated) cells, some apricot kernels would theoretically be excellent maintenance and any excess, regardless of how benign amygdalin may be without a cancerous enzyme, it still taxes the system. Taxes it like uncle Sam.
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DaBoss88 and Dr. D, do you eat any raw nuts and if so do you soak them before you eat them?
DaBoss88, you note that you eat 9-12 raw apricot seeds daily. What do you think is roughly the max safe limit?
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so in essence, since we all have some cancerous (mutated) cells, some apricot kernels would theoretically be excellent maintenance and any excess, regardless of how benign amygdalin may be without a cancerous enzyme, it still taxes the system. Taxes it like uncle Sam.
Dr D,
You are assuming of course that cancer is mutated cells. That is the theory that the pharmaceutical companies like to espouse, essentially because they don't know any better and or don't want to as it allows them to sell their garbage cures.
In contrast Dr. Royal Rife a medical researcher and developer of devices that were (and still are) successful in treating cancer, has provided definitive proof that cancer is a virus, a smaller virus that can be seen with a regular microscope.
The problem is that to see them requires a very high power microscope that unfortunately produces so much heat that it kills the virus and so their movement and thus appearance of being alive is not evident.
However Dr. Rife was an interesting fellow. In his twenties he worked for a maker of lenses I believe Zeiss in Germany or Switzerland in the early 1920s and gained expertise in the process. Then at some point he designed and built a dark field microscope, which was able to observe things much smaller, without producing so much heat as to kill them. This scope used quartz crystal as part of the optics and I believe certain dyes to make the virus visible. It was called a darkfield microscope, because intense light was not needed.
This device was substantially more powerful and thus could see what is called unfilterable (smaller than 10microns) virus or virus too small to be captured by the filtration media.
This is explained in the various books on the subject such as Barry Lynes "The Cancer Cure That Worked"
http://www.cancer-cure-that-worked.com/ (http://www.cancer-cure-that-worked.com/)
In this link watch the video especially after 3:35 There are other vids (produced back in the 1920s by Dr. Rife) that video the cancer virus (BX ?) while alive and during treatment and as they became morbid.
The Cancer Cure That Worked! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3J76zlAnjc#)
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Another more in depth vid made in 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rvU9JrWycFI# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rvU9JrWycFI#)!
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Dr D,
You are assuming of course that cancer is mutated cells. That is the theory that the pharmaceutical companies like to espouse, essentially because they don't know any better and or don't want to as it allows them to sell their garbage cures.
You are correct in my previous assumption. So in light of new information, I will make an amendment but I believe the overall principle stands: Anything that is not benefiting our body is harming it, there is no "benign" middle ground. Concerning cancer (to remain on topic), our body therefore needs our immune system to fight the cancer, and ingesting "benign" substances would weaken the immune system due to energy wasted, etc. whereas the opposite, providing nutrition can only benefit our system to run optimally.
Thanks for those vids Al, the second one was a little long but if I have a spare 45 min I'll definitely check it out. haha
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DaBoss88 and Dr. D, do you eat any raw nuts and if so do you soak them before you eat them?
DaBoss88, you note that you eat 9-12 raw apricot seeds daily. What do you think is roughly the max safe limit?
No to the nuts. I used to eat nuts and some times I'd soak them, not always though. I noticed at one point I started craving them like a SAD food and decided to stop ordering them.
I'm sure the safe limit is pretty high up there. I've heard of people with cancer eating a lot of apricot seeds (like 30+), while people without cancer are recommended to consume 7-15 for prevention.
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Do you think that soaking nuts makes sense, and if so, why?
30 apricot kernels doesn't seem like much. Even 35 raw apricot kernels, which other sources report is the recommended maximum, contain just 109 calories, a mere snack. Does 35 kernels sound like a reasonable max to you?
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Do you think that soaking nuts makes sense, and if so, why?
30 apricot kernels doesn't seem like much. Even 35 raw apricot kernels, which other sources report is the recommended maximum, contain just 109 calories, a mere snack. Does 35 kernels sound like a reasonable max to you?
Based on what I've read soaking makes sense. In nature they'd be rained on as they grew and naturally be "soaked."
It's not a lot of calories. But something to consider is that these foods aren't meant to be staples. It's not like beef fat, organs, etc which we expect to get a good amount of calories from.
What makes sense to me is that in a natural environment we'd eat the seeds of the fruit we eat. So realistically I don't think we'd eat 35+ apricot seeds in a day because it's unlikely we'd eat that many apricots.
Something else that I think is valid, is pre-fire when our ancestors were eating uncooked foods and everything was relatively toxin free and nutrient dense they probably didn't need to eat much Vitamin B17 to protect themselves. So I imagine the cleaner the diet, the lower the toxin intake, etc. the less Vitamin B17 you'd need. Which is why I only eat 9 daily. When I was on cooked SCD I ate more typically, 15-20. But I've taken into account my diet is much cleaner, my toxin load is lower, etc. so I've decreased my consumption.
For someone with cancer, they need those very large amount of Vitamin B17 since they're trying to cure cancer. Not just that, but they're likely going to continue eating low nutrient, high toxin foods (not raw paleo).
I've seen some places more than 35 recommended for cancer treatment, spread out through the day. For further info, I suggest starting at the "World Without Cancer" documentary on youtube. Another good source is the actual book, "World Without Cancer." I read the book and it was a very good read. It covered the politics of cancer as well as the medical side of it, how Vitamin B17 has been suppressed, the science of how it works, etc. Highly Recommended.
If you decide to try to get to those very high amounts of Vitamin B17, start slow. Increase gradually paying attention to any side effects. We eat very clean diets so my assumption is we don't need as much as someone with cancer, or a SAD eater.
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@DaBoss88
What if any change does soaking do that's beneficial for people who eat soaked nuts? Rain occurs in nature, yes, but fruit seeds and nuts are shielded from rain by shells and fruit flesh.
Given that apricot seeds don't provide much calories and that in a natural environment, particularly pre-Neolithic, it's unlikely that many people would eat 35 or even 9 apricot seeds a day and that they are used more as a cancer therapy and preventative than as a significant food source like beef, fat and organs, doesn't that suggest that they are more of a medicinal than a staple-type food? Doesn't this suggest that their therapeutic mechanism would be more likely a medicinal one than a nutritive one, especially when things more commonly eaten as foods, such as almonds, macadamia nuts, pecans, walnuts and flax seeds, also contain amygdalin?
If you decide to try to get to those very high amounts of Vitamin B17, start slow. Increase gradually paying attention to any side effects.
Your warning and the practices recommended by sites promoting amygdalin or laetrile therapy speak louder than the nutrient theory (with apricot seeds as a "nutritional supplement" resolving an alleged "B17" deficiency) that some of those sites use (such as here: http://www.worldwithoutcancer.org.uk/FINALGUIDEUKpdfEbook.pdf (http://www.worldwithoutcancer.org.uk/FINALGUIDEUKpdfEbook.pdf)) to try to explain the amygdalin and laetrile therapies. Suggestions that people start out with small doses of apricot kernels, often spread throughout the day, and not exceed a low to moderate dose (such as only 30-35 apricot kernels per day) fit the idea of the U- or J-shaped or inverted-U shaped dose-response curves of hormesis, rather than a nontoxic or near-nontoxic food.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/Hormesis_dose_response_graph.svg/220px-Hormesis_dose_response_graph.svg.png)
Hormesis dose-response inverted-U curve
For example, this is from the site you linked to:
"To start, it is recommended that along with the purified forms of B-17, either intravenous or oral, cancer patients eat one apricot seed for every 10 lbs of body weight. If this dosage is tolerated well, it may be increased to 30 to 35 kernels per day. IMPORTANT: For adults, more than 6 per hour or 30 per day is not recommended." http://www.worldwithoutcancer.org.uk/faq.html (http://www.worldwithoutcancer.org.uk/faq.html)
And there is this from a seller of raw apricot seeds:
"the consumption of apricot seeds, from any source, has the potential to cause adverse reactions when consumed in excess. This was the case with one person in Queensland who allegedly became unwell after consuming approximately 40 seeds in one sitting." http://www.chitree.com/apricot-seeds-in-the-news.html (http://www.chitree.com/apricot-seeds-in-the-news.html)
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@Dr. D:
so in essence, since we all have some cancerous (mutated) cells, some apricot kernels would theoretically be excellent maintenance and any excess, regardless of how benign amygdalin may be without a cancerous enzyme, it still taxes the system.
That fits nicely with hormesis. If it turns out that apricot seeds can be beneficial in hormetic doses, that leaves questions about how much, how often, and whether apricot kernels are the best or only source of hormetic benefit.
The more I read on this and related topics, the more it looks like the main potential benefit of apricot seeds and amygdalin in general would be hormetic. The bitter-tasting amygdalin in some fruit seeds, nuts and legumes appears to be one of several bitter plant compounds that have shown medicinal effects and fit the hormetic model:
"The TAS2R16 gene is one of the most studied genes in the bitter taste receptor family and interestingly it has been shown that it underwent recent selective pressure. It mediates the detection of salicin and other naturally occurring bitter compounds such as diphenidol, sodium benzoate, amygdalin, arbutin, helicin, D-salicin, sinigrin, and phenyl beta-D-glucopyranoside [76], [77]. Several of these compounds have been reported to have a pharmacologic effect and to be present in human food. For example, arbutin is present in pears, bearberries and wheat, and has been reported to be a strong inhibitor of bladder cancer proliferation [78]. Amygdalin, also known as Vitamin B17, is found in several fruit seeds and has been reported to have both apoptotic activity and to inhibit cell cycle genes [79] although its real effect on cancer remains controversial [80]. Sinigrin is found in plants of the Brassicaceae family such as broccoli, brussels sprouts, and the seeds of black mustard. It has been proposed to have a preventive effect on colorectal cancer and to inhibit bladder cancer [81]. The bark and leaf of willow species contain the prodrug salicin; following absorption salicin is metabolized into various salicylate derivatives [82]. Salicin has effects similar to aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid) on analgesia and as an anti-inflammatory agent [82]. These reports point to a role for the TAS2R16 receptor in recognizing beneficial molecules with which the organism interacts during life. One can speculate that an impaired function of the receptor might affect the efficacy of the various compounds and that this could lead on the long term to a disadvantage for the organism." (Bitter Taste Receptor Polymorphisms and Human Aging, 2012, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3487725 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3487725))
If amygdalin is the primary active ingredient in apricot seeds and is indeed beneficial in the right dose, then presumably other foods that contain amygdalin (such as some raw nuts) might provide similar benefits at similar doses (with individual variations).
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Phil: I forgot to answer your question about nuts. No, I have stopped consuming nuts. I did consume them the first few days raw, but decided it was less of a food source and more of a "psychological snack" as well as questioning the quality of the nuts I own.
Also, the other negative side effects of Amygdalin I've heard were concerning blood not being able to carry oxygen as well, and would prevent the brain from getting everything it needs. No source, sorry, but I believe that was from my doctor when I asked him YEARS ago. (wow, it's been a while since I've been to a doc...)
There was a case report of severe cyanide poisoning after ingestion of laetrile. The 68 year old woman was admitted to emergency with seizures after having taken a dose of amygdalin (3 grams) while taking 4.8 grams of vitamin C. Vitamin C is believed to increase the conversion of amygdalin to cyanide in the body. It is also believed to reduce the amount of cysteine, which is used to detoxify cyanide. http://altmedicine.about.com/od/herbsupplementguide/a/laetrile.htm (http://altmedicine.about.com/od/herbsupplementguide/a/laetrile.htm)
I find that interesting because I remember reading in "Why we get fat and what to do about it" By Gary Taubes, that all vitamins and minerals necessary can be found in animals, except for vitamin C. Putting these two pieces of info together (very minimal but at least another piece) does a few things:
1- apricot kernels for fighting cancer do not work well in conjunction with Vit. C, promoting the idea that raw animals foods low in Vit. C should be a main source of food for people with cancer, or just in general.
2- Vit C as the panacea for immune support by western allopathic standards could just be flat out wrong. Vit. C may help an already compromised immune system by providing a short term boost (man cant kill an animal but finds some high Vit. C berries, enough to get him along for the night and not get sick overnight) and really Vit. C is not necessary for actual immune system health, provided the rest of necessary nutrition is available.
3- Cancer as something that occurs from a compromised immune system, being helped by hormetic treatment, also takes out the possibility that vit C is necessary or in some cases even beneficial, and makes it harmful to strengthening one's immunity, if #2 is correct, and one is consuming apricot seeds.
Of course most of this is unnecessary if one is consuming raw foods, in correct proportions.
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@Dr D: Raw kidney contains significant vitamin C:
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/lamb-veal-and-game-products/4664/2 (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/lamb-veal-and-game-products/4664/2)
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@Dr D: Raw kidney contains significant vitamin C:
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/lamb-veal-and-game-products/4664/2 (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/lamb-veal-and-game-products/4664/2)
12.4 mg / 4 oz of kidney is not significant when our "daily recommendation" is 500 mg/day. Often people consider dosing anywhere from 2000-4000 mg for when they start to feel sick in hopes of boosting their immune system to shorten the cold. I'd rather not try to eat 10 lbs. of kidney in a day if I start to feel sick to try and get 500 mg of vitamin C, haha.
Although this does change what Taubes talks about concerning getting vitamin C in animal foods, it doesn't change the principal of not getting full doses of vit. c from animal foods.
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If you believe that then you might want to ask Lex Rooker how he manages to avoid scurvy, since he has been eating meat/fat/organs for years with only a smattering of plant foods here and there. I've seen multiple ZCers and LCers report that the need for vitamin C drops when one is eating mostly meat (fresh, rather than canned or salted, and it also appears to be easier to get scurvy on pemmican than fresh meats), because carbs increase the need for vitamin C. It's still an area of some mystery, though, as the cause of scurvy is still a matter of debate in scientific circles.
Of course, that doesn't guarantee that ZC/VLC provides optimal levels of vitamin C, but it does call into question the notion that 500 mg/day is the required or optimal intake for all adults, regardless of what sort of diet they're eating.
If amygdalin can provide a hormetic benefit, then amygdalin-containing nuts may provide more than just a "psychological snack" benefit. I've been eating more raw nuts lately since I noticed some benefit from raw Brazil nuts and found them to be extremely tasty (whereas I've never been particularly fond of cooked Brazil nuts), though it's still rather early to tell whether they'll remain as a regular (albeit limited due to the very high selenium and phytate content) food for me.
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Phil, do you eat them raw? or do you sprout/soak them shortly?
I had brazil nuts for a time solely because of the selenium. Apparently the selenium fuels testosterone, something I figured I was low on. Though that doesn't seem to be an issue with a carnivore! Victory, right?
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Given that apricot seeds don't provide much calories and that in a natural environment, particularly pre-Neolithic, it's unlikely that many people would eat 35 or even 9 apricot seeds a day and that they are used more as a cancer therapy and preventative than as a significant food source like beef, fat and organs, doesn't that suggest that they are more of a medicinal than a staple-type food? Doesn't this suggest that their therapeutic mechanism would be more likely a medicinal one than a nutritive one, especially when things more commonly eaten as foods, such as almonds, macadamia nuts, pecans, walnuts and flax seeds, also contain amygdalin?
I wasn't really suggesting that they ate 9 apricot seeds a day. But that in their diets, which would've contained all those things, they'd have likely gotten a decent amount of Vitamin B17. Especially since wild foods (like how that link shows wild blueberries have more) have more Vitamin B17.
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Which link is it? Do you mean the wild blackberries at this link http://www.vitaminb17.org/foods.htm (http://www.vitaminb17.org/foods.htm) ? I've seen other sources list much lower amygdalin values for berries than for apricot seeds.
So do you eat apricot seeds because you don't think you can get enough amygdalin from other foods without them?
If we use the Paleolithic natural environment template as a clue (not necessarily a final answer, of course), wouldn't we eat the amygdalin foods seasonally and intermittently rather than daily, depending on individual tolerances, genetics, needs, etc.? And I've seen plausible points made for consuming both nutritive supplements and hormetic plant medicinals intermittently, rather than chronically. The idea of intermittent/hormetic intake is to challenge the body to robustify and encourage it to generate more of its own beneficial biochemicals and also avoid accumulated overload, rather than rely entirely on the crutch of daily supplements or medicinals. Another way of doing this is to mix up the supplements/medicinals, so one could take some every day if one wished, but vary them.
Something else occurred to me about this:
I think that it depends on what enzymes are present that determines whether the benzaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide act as toxins or nutrients. The cancer site has enzymes that release the cyanide and benzaldehyde to destroy the cancer. While the rest of the body turns it into a useful substance.
Isn't one of the functions of enzymes to detoxify? If so, that still fits with amygdalin being a medicinal plant toxin/phytochemical, which would mean that QW is right about amygdalin being a (plant) toxin (but that doesn't necessarily mean they're right to portray it as a useless poison).
Toxin doesn't necessarily mean bad, as toxins can be beneficial medicinals, such as when trying to kill cancer cells. "The dose is the poison", rather than the toxin itself on its own. Sites like QW accept this for approved medicinal toxins like chemotherapy but contradictorily don't accept it for complementary medicinal toxins (which often have less negative long-term side effects). Unfortunately, with medicinal foods it's difficult to know what dose to use and with what frequency, as foods do not get studied much as therapeutic medicinals and their medicinal content tends to vary widely (varying doses may actually be hormetically beneficial, and this may partly explain why wild diets have been observed to be quite healthy).
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Which link is it? Do you mean the wild blackberries at this link http://www.vitaminb17.org/foods.htm (http://www.vitaminb17.org/foods.htm) ? I've seen other sources list much lower amygdalin values for berries than for apricot seeds.
So do you eat apricot seeds because you don't think you can get enough amygdalin from other foods without them?
Yes, that link. Also from the youtube video it showed that laetrille rich grasses used to be the main food source for grazing animals (beef, lamb, etc.) but that it was replaced with low B17 foods. I imagine our ancestor's foods would have had much more B17 since they were all wild, from nutrient rich soil, etc. and all the animals were eating more nutrient dense food so had more in their tissues. So yes I eat the apricot seeds to mimic the amount they would have gotten, but also because I think it's the right amount to prevent cancer when used in conjunction with the other things I'm doing.
I can't say as to whether it's a hormetic benefit or not. My personal opinion is that illness happens on the trigger of nutrient deficiences, toxin overloads, etc.
Ie when the body is deficient in Vitamin B17 and overloaded with stressors (toxins, etc.) cancer develops. And that other illnesses behave similarly. So to prevent any problems I eat apricot seeds.
If we use the Paleolithic natural environment template as a clue (not necessarily a final answer, of course), wouldn't we eat the amygdalin foods seasonally and intermittently rather than daily, depending on individual tolerances, genetics, needs, etc.?
Sure, you could do that. Honestly I think the average raw paleo dieter is going to live cancer free due to limiting toxins, eating nutrient dense foods, etc. But for me I rather just eat the seeds.
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Although I have no evidence, I have a theory about 'benign' particles in our system. Phil you mention excess anything is harmful and I believe that anything that our body ingests and can't use is harmful.
Clearly our body can't use silica. It can't be broken down. Even when ingested the only 'real' danger occurs from a possible laceration. If the particles were finely ground and rounded smooth then they would pass naturally.
However I would like to argue that it doeant merely pass as if it was never ingested. The energy out body consumes trying to digest it, check it for disease/virus, using enzymes and acid to try to break it down all take their toll. Cumulatively, the body is worse off. Only that which is beneficial leaves the body better off after its departure.
so in essence, since we all have some cancerous (mutated) cells, some apricot kernels would theoretically be excellent maintenance and any excess, regardless of how benign amygdalin may be without a cancerous enzyme, it still taxes the system. Taxes it like uncle Sam.
Dr D.,
I am along time student of a medical system called Ayurveda.
Ayurveda says that when you eat food there are certain rules on how to consume it. These rules are simple and yet complicated to follow and it would be difficult to get them all right, all the time.
So Ay. presents an alternative: periodic cleansings which they call Pancha Karma. These cleansings clean out the body of things that have accumulated in various places in the body, somewhat as you have alluded to in your mention of silica.
Ay. classifies these foreign debris as Ama or undigested food. Basically Ay says we have 72 digestive fires (Nowadays we call them chemical reactions) If something causes these digestive fires to dim or go out, then the food that would normally be digested (chemically reacted) remains either undigested or partially digested or over-digested. This ama can be observed in yourself or anyone by looking at various places in the body for signs, the easiest being a tongue diagnosis using colour, texture, smell position, movement, shape, etc...
http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://ayurvedaposters.com/online/templatemedia/all_lang/resources/Tongue_diagnosis_18x24.jpg&imgrefurl=http://ayurvedaposters.com/shop/page/3?shop_param%3D&h=480&w=360&sz=177&tbnid=O9IwIDHhp2ycfM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=72&zoom=1&usg=__oqzZ9wnOyEXZUtNSroIs5LUR4Ro=&docid=H4gCIVPvHY5SyM&sa=X&ei=5G2zUdjYL8OniALc5IDwCQ&ved=0CDcQ9QEwAg&dur=3776 (http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://ayurvedaposters.com/online/templatemedia/all_lang/resources/Tongue_diagnosis_18x24.jpg&imgrefurl=http://ayurvedaposters.com/shop/page/3?shop_param%3D&h=480&w=360&sz=177&tbnid=O9IwIDHhp2ycfM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=72&zoom=1&usg=__oqzZ9wnOyEXZUtNSroIs5LUR4Ro=&docid=H4gCIVPvHY5SyM&sa=X&ei=5G2zUdjYL8OniALc5IDwCQ&ved=0CDcQ9QEwAg&dur=3776)
http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.spinachandyoga.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/mirror-tongue-diagnosis1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.spinachandyoga.com/ayurvedic-tongue-analysis/&h=1134&w=1384&sz=301&tbnid=vv4yFEoT2EwftM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=110&zoom=1&usg=__7YzSpl_NLp5eZ0nLC__S0iiY_yE=&docid=a-8jukxos4O2vM&sa=X&ei=5G2zUdjYL8OniALc5IDwCQ&ved=0CDEQ9QEwAA&dur=3574 (http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.spinachandyoga.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/mirror-tongue-diagnosis1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.spinachandyoga.com/ayurvedic-tongue-analysis/&h=1134&w=1384&sz=301&tbnid=vv4yFEoT2EwftM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=110&zoom=1&usg=__7YzSpl_NLp5eZ0nLC__S0iiY_yE=&docid=a-8jukxos4O2vM&sa=X&ei=5G2zUdjYL8OniALc5IDwCQ&ved=0CDEQ9QEwAA&dur=3574)
So if you have Ama in your GI Tract, over time it may manage to broach the intestinal walls and make it into the bloodstream, where it "goes with the flow", till it arrives at a place where it's movement is stopped, say by a damaged blood vessel or where capillaries are too small for it to proceed, or a weak area in the system such as a genetic issue etc..
There it stops, and eventually another bit of ama will join it and another till at some point it basically sludges up the works.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atherosclerosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atherosclerosis)
(I am leaving out detail here as it would fill a book)
Ama gradually blocks off blood flow to the area, causing the local and downstream cells to be starved and thus their ability to do what they do is compromised.
Another angleon what happens in the area where Ama builds up is explained roughly here,by Dr Jerry Tennant,a fellow with an impressive resume. Dr Jerry Tennant on Healing is Voltage & Fulvic Acid Minerals (Eye Health) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_k1BNenl_c#)
BTW if this buildup is allowed to persist for a very long time it can become a bit dangerous to take things (drugs, herbs, treatments, etc) that will dislodge the sludge in the event that it makes it's way to the heart causing big problems.
If the person continues to eat whatever it is or do other things that create this Ama and do nothing to get rid of it like exercise, massage etc. then it builds to the point where the cells are into starvation mode and a part of the cell which Ay describes as being like your Mother (in that it unconditionally loves you and wants you to survive and thrive) goes into war mode and multiplies cells in that area at a rate beyond normal, because that is how it is programmed. (DNA)
Once you get to this stage, disease starts to manifest and it can be anything basically. Eventually it can become cancer. At the cancer stage Ay can only make you comfortable on your way to the great deli and happiness bar in the sky ;D
Now having said all of this about that, I have discovered since starting to eat a raw diet that a lot of the food rules seem to go out the window. For instance my body type doesn't do well with Honey and prior to eating raw I could not handle honey at all. Ay also says to never heat honey as it will become toxic.
Now I eat lots of it and with raw butter, rather than Ghee which is (cooked) clarified butter.
Also I have to eat considerably less food which is probably related to the fact that since raw food has it's nutrient value still intact, you don't get that starving feeling you get on a cooked diet.
AY says that your body has a natural intelligence that knows when you have eaten too much and with raw food that intelligence tells me I can eat a heck of a lot less food.
When taking my Ay Practitioner course the teacher told a story that Ay was written down at the time in history when the people started moving out of the hills and onto the plains to start farming. The farming was better, in that starvation could be kept at bay, but the food produced was not healthy and the people started getting diseases. The Doctors at the time (around the time of JC and the gang of 12 ;D ) could see this happening, so they realized that their knowledge should be codified. This resulted in the Caraka Samhita, probably the most important of the various treatises on Ay to be written.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charaka_Samhita (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charaka_Samhita)
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so in essence, since we all have some cancerous (mutated) cells, some apricot kernels would theoretically be excellent maintenance and any excess, regardless of how benign amygdalin may be without a cancerous enzyme, it still taxes the system. Taxes it like uncle Sam.
I recall a speech given by Dr D.Chopra in which he said that research has shown that our bodies produce cancer causing agents continuously and it also produces agents to curb cancer. It is like a continuous dance and as long as the good guys are winning then you are healthy.
Things "psychological" enter into the arena and weigh on the results of this dance.
I recall a close relative many years ago who had a spouse commit suicide. Within a year she had cancer.
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Some sources said that laetrile is a man-modified form of amygdalin, so that grasses would naturally contain amygdalin, rather than laetrile. If laetrile is just natural amygdalin, why would anyone bother to change the name?
Everything I've seen here and elsewhere fits with amygdalin being a plant toxin (phytochemical) which may have medicinal benefits in certain doses and which it is also possible to accumulate an overload of, and even sellers of raw apricot seeds and advocates, such as in this thread and at http://www.worldwithoutcancer.org.uk (http://www.worldwithoutcancer.org.uk), indicate this when warning to not exceed a small intake like 35-40 seeds per day and to build up a tolerance. The most plausible mechanism of beneficial action is hormesis, which appears to be one of the key natural concepts least discussed at this forum.
It's interesting that fava beans are high in amygdalin per http://www.vitaminb17.org/foods.htm (http://www.vitaminb17.org/foods.htm) and that this is one of the foods regarded most toxic by most Paleo dieters. So there appears to be other phytochemicals to consider beyond just amygdalin and perhaps we should consider the foods as a whole rather than focus on one aspect of them.
It does indeed seem that amygdalin levels have been reduced in the diet, such as via domestication of nuts and berries, whereas the intakes of other plant toxins, such as gluten, have been increased via domestication. So the notion that higher intake of amydgalin might help is plausible. It's still also possible to overdo it and the level at which this can occur is reportedly much lower than with other foods like meat, fat and organs.
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12.4 mg / 4 oz of kidney is not significant when our "daily recommendation" is 500 mg/day.
The RDA is more like 60mg as far as I know, not 500mg.
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Cure all Illnesses in 3 minutes!!! Spread LOVE not HATE!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufVjdvRw4LM#)
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PP,
I finally got an excellent report from my friend with the Rife device. He is the one who cured my liver and prostate and cankers.
This site has the program "Spooky" that he and a few others have developed in order to control the device that they discovered on Ebay for around 70 USD that has been used to cure an incredible # of diseases including cancer as you will read in this link
http://www.cancerclinic.co.nz/downloads-3/files/Johann%20on%20Cancer.pdf (http://www.cancerclinic.co.nz/downloads-3/files/Johann%20on%20Cancer.pdf)
They are now working on making the device capable of diagnosis which will be a quantum leap especially for a device in this price range. The new version will be more expensive maybe in the 120 dollar range.
This author as well as the other author John White are programmers and have donated their programming for free. The device is sold by a company from China. They have also written a comprehensive manual for same.
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I have been theorizing a number of alternative cancer thoeries and would like some others input.
Medical science has it wrong when it comes to the underlying cause of most infectious disease, and I believe they are in many ways totally ignorant about the nature of cancer and its biological function.
First of all cancer is a normal biological process that has occurred throughout biological history. Healthy animals will develop cancerous cells lifetime without any malignancy at all. Often small tumors will form and be removed by the bodies deffences without issue. Cancer is a symptom of some environmental imbalance. Cancer only becomes an issue when the body's cleansing and immune functions are so impaired that it can no longer contain cancer cells.
Still I cant help but to wonder if these cancer cells are not just some random mutation which causes the cell to go out of control. Is it possible that these small clusters of aderant cells form around tissue that is already toxic and diseased. Is it possible that these tumors contain the deaseased tissue, as a way to protect the rest of the body. In people who have some capability of rejuvenation these tumors are contained and in most cases the bodies immune system is able to clear them away before they are even noticed.
Countless people have lived a reasonable healthy and long life while carrying such cancers. Like other infectious disease , cancer only becomes life threatening if the body it to toxic and immune function to weak to contain and eliminate properly.
Medical science is completely ignorant of this view of cancer. By cutting out tumors, radiating and poisoning the body they are perpetrating a great crime against humanity. Countless people who with some basic lifestyle changes could put most cancers into remission are being murdered by barbaric treatments conducted by CANCER FARMERS.
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PP You might consider learning about New German Medicine and Pleomorphism.
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Raw Al, are you talking about Hamer’s theory ? The name of « New German Medicine » is already by itself laughable. Beside, it doesn’t work : 2 persons I know who relied on Hamer’s method died of cancer, including Nicole Burger.
Sabertooth, your hypothesisis is remarkably similar to GCB’s, which I tried to summarize here:
The assumption is that by eating cooked food or an excessive amount of any specific foodstuff, the body gets polluted by abnormal molecules and foreign proteins. Before becoming a part of us, ingested foreign proteins must be cut into amino acid which are subsequently re-formed in suitable human proteins, as well explained by Seignalet under his point 3 here http://www.reocities.com/HotSprings/7627/ggforeword.html (http://www.reocities.com/HotSprings/7627/ggforeword.html) :
“3. Protein metabolism. To keep this foreword reasonably short, only protein-based non-initial molecules will here be described as against sugar- or fat-based NIMs.Man's bodily tissues mainly consist of proteins that are amino acid chains. Renewing man's protein pool requires h4im to metabolise vegetable and animal dietary protein. It is therefore crucial for dietary proteins to be properly broken down into their constituent amino acids. Should some amino acids retain peptide structures of varying lengths, they may not be suitable for human protein synthesis. By way of illustration, imagine human proteins consist of English words, animal proteins of French words, and vegetable proteins of Russian words. If separate letters were taken from say, French or Russian words, it will still be possible to produce English words. However, should some sequences remain clustered, the fragments yielded will fail to be part of an English word. Thus, the French combination "qui" or the Russian "vitch" form no part of any English word.”
If you’re interested, you can read the complete explanation of Seignalet, which is quite technical. (select the text, copy and paste it on Word or whatever to get rid of the mess on the webpage) but certainly more accurate than my approximate attempt.
To make it short, cancerous cells continuously appear in our bodies. These are earmarked by what I think is called in English “antigen presentation”, so that the immune system can identify them and destroy them. Now, when the body is polluted by foreign proteins which trigger the cells having included them to show a specific type of “antigene presentation” on their membrane, the immune system is thought to finally go “on strike” (tolerance), failling to destroy those cells anymore as it would involve destruction of a large proportion of the body.
If, by an unfortunate coincidence, a cancerous cell happen to have precisely the same “antigene presentation” than the one the immune system is on strike against (tolerant), then it won’t be destroyed and will be able to freely proliferate.
That’s why GCB thinks an excessive consumption of proteins is dangerous, especially if those proteins have a shape only slightly different of human proteins, so that the immune system could too easily fail to recognize them as foreign. It appeared that meat of domestic mammals can easily be consumed in excess, leading to some foreign proteins having not been broken into amino acids by our enzymes to pass through the bowel lining. That’s what would have led to the cancer of Nicole, according to GCB. This problem is much more acute with dairy products to which our adaptation is unlikely to be complete and our instinctive stop signals extremely weak.
Seignalet :
“In all such diseases, ailing health is caused by an immune reaction to an antigen's having inveigled into the body. Now, pure fats are not immunogenic. As for pure sugars (polyosides), there are only immunogenic with a molecular weight above 100,000, and, additionally, T lymphocytes are not involved in immune response to those polyosides (2). Hence, there is grounds for thinking that the antigenic culprit is a peptide.”
Would it mean that cream and butter would not trigger the same problem? I don’t know, I’m incompetent to tell.
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Raw Al, are you talking about Hamer’s theory ? The name of « New German Medicine » is already by itself laughable. Beside, it doesn’t work : 2 persons I know who relied on Hamer’s method died of cancer, including Nicole Burger.
Regarding the name, who gives a hoot what something is called. I don't recall the reason for the name but I think it was a play on words or a joke.
I cannot defend or attack it. Every method of healing or whatever has people who benefit from it and people who don't. I've seen people on this forum who swear that this diet is nonsense and only later is it discovered that they did not follow directions. Following directions is frequently the part that patients do wrong and also there is the knowledge or ability of the practitioner.
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Raw Al, are you talking about Hamer’s theory ? The name of « New German Medicine » is already by itself laughable. Beside, it doesn’t work : 2 persons I know who relied on Hamer’s method died of cancer, including Nicole Burger.
Who is Nicole Burger?
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Who is Nicole Burger?
Guy-Claude Burger's late wife, who died of cancer.
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As I've said before, if someone is unwilling to defend or even investigate something that they're posting about, that is a strong clue for me that there's not much to it. I will not look into it further unless the proponent can defend it. It's a form of honesty and self-filtering provided by the proponent that I appreciate, because it's quite helpful to me in that it saves me the time I otherwise would have wasted investigating it.
The typical response to bogus therapy failures is to claim that the one who tried it didn't do it perfectly enough and the typical counter to skepticism of poorly supported odd therapies is to attack the skeptic, claiming he's biased and not sufficiently open-minded, or lacking knowledge, or doesn't have the right mindset to accept the received wisdom, or there's something else wrong with him, instead of producing supportive solid evidence and explanatory mechanisms. I hope we won't be seeing that in this thread.
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As I've said before, if someone is unwilling to defend or even investigate something that they're posting about, that is a strong clue for me that there's not much to it. I will not look into it further unless the proponent can defend it. It's a form of honesty and self-filtering provided by the proponent that I appreciate, because it's quite helpful to me in that it saves me the time I otherwise would have wasted investigating it.
The typical response to bogus therapy failures is to claim that the one who tried it didn't do it perfectly enough and the typical counter to skepticism of poorly supported odd therapies is to attack the skeptic, claiming he's biased and not sufficiently open-minded, or lacking knowledge, or doesn't have the right mindset to accept the received wisdom, or there's something else wrong with him, instead of producing supportive solid evidence and explanatory mechanisms. I hope we won't be seeing that in this thread.
So I take it you didn't read the link I provided in post # 97
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Correct, your unwillingness to defend tells me to not bother reading. Your example was my guidance.
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If the story of this article is true then any placebo device or method is helpful.
http://www.sustainedaction.org/Explorations/placebo_effect.htm (http://www.sustainedaction.org/Explorations/placebo_effect.htm)
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Correct, your unwillingness to defend tells me to not bother reading. Your example was my guidance.
Defend what?
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If, if, if....
"If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings---nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much:
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And---which is more---you'll be a Man, my son!"
- Rudyard Kipling
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If, if, if....
"If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings---nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much:
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And---which is more---you'll be a Man, my son!"
- Rudyard Kipling
Excellent so now it is a poetry thread. LOL
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LOL If you want to convince an Irishman, or one of recent Irish stock, either show him, or use poetry. Ordinary words, without action, will not do. ;-)
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I have seen a lot of speculation that fungus/yeasts (such as candida) can initiate an irritation that can be come cancerous. They say that the increase in antibiotics and high consumption of starchy / sugary foods allows these yeast cells to thrive. This seems like a reasonable theory.
I have also seen many reports on the Internet of people curing their cancers, and many other illnesses, by taking wood turpentine or kerosene. Google search for turpentine or kerosene & cancer and have a read of the results. Given that modern 'evidence based testing' is expensive and therefore only undertaken if the compound is patentable I doubt there is any scientific evidence available. If I had cancer I would probably give this a try.
It is likely that paleo folks consumed tree sap as a remedy for some conditions, which would contain the compounds present in vegetable turpentine.
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This study suggests that the DNA mutations that cause cancer are created by our own enzymes which are created to kill viruses, and these enzymes can inflict collateral damage on our own DNA. Presumably this is happening all the time and normally we can repair or neutralize this damage, but as our health deteriorates due to modern lifestyle etc then the damaged cells can proliferate:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130814132445.htm (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130814132445.htm)
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The most recent theory connects cancer to evolution and our ancestors far far back in time.
http://phys.org/news/2013-07-theory-uncovers-cancer-deep-evolutionary.html (http://phys.org/news/2013-07-theory-uncovers-cancer-deep-evolutionary.html)
"We envisage cancer as the execution of an ancient program pre-loaded into the genomes of all cells," says Davies, an Arizona State University Regents Professor. "It is rather like Windows defaulting to 'safe mode' after suffering an insult of some sort." As such, he describes cancer as a throwback to an ancestral phenotype.
"As cancer progresses through its various stages within a single organism, it should be like running the evolutionary and developmental arrows of time backward at high speed," says Davies.
This could provide clues to future treatments. For example, when life took the momentous step from single cells to multicellular assemblages, Earth had low levels of oxygen. Sure enough, cancer reverts to an ancient form of metabolism called fermentation, which can supply energy with little need for oxygen, although it requires lots of sugar.
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Thanks for the link, aLptHW4k4y. Warburg talked about that decades ago but was largely ignored, unfortunately. His research has recently been getting a second look and others have been investigating this angle. Here's another example:
Cancer proliferation and therapy: the Warburg effect and quantum metabolism, Theoretical Biology and Medical Modelling, 2010,
http://www.tbiomed.com/content/7/1/2 (http://www.tbiomed.com/content/7/1/2)
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It seems to me this is absolutely compatible with GCB's theory, explaining something upstream. I'm I wrong?
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I read of a recent experiment that supports this, where they said it was the environment around the cell that made it decide to become cancerous. Since the cell wasn't getting what it needed from it's community it decides to revert to a base form and 'go it alone', behaving like single celled organisms and multiplying. The study said they could take a normal cell and place it in a cancerous environment and it would become cancerous, and visa versa.
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Yup, instead of a disease of the human body host, cancer seems to be a natural cellular survival mechanism in which the cells revert to their ancestral form. The cancer cells aren't seeking to destroy the host, just to survive themselves.
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Yup, instead of a disease of the human body host, cancer seems to be a natural cellular survival mechanism in which the cells revert to their ancestral form. The cancer cells aren't seeking to destroy the host, just to survive themselves.
This seems plausible, though my main point is to express notion that; if the rest of the being is strong enough then it will be able to contain these rogue cells and eliminate them from the body. Aberrant cell growth is common to life, and only becomes cancer once the bodies defenses become inhibited.
I will try and better outline my own theory a little more clearly.
I think that there is a way to view cancer in terms of the final degeneration from AVs progression of infectious disease.
When an organism becomes toxic or out of balance it becomes susceptible to bacteria and yeast, that feed off the sick tissue, and stimulate the body to purge. These infections are symptoms of imbalance and not the direct cause of illness.
If the organism still persist in bad habits or remains within a bad environment then the next stage of defenses will be employed. It will become besieged by viruses, that are meant not only to cleans the body and eliminate damaged cells, but are also involved in the restructuring of DNA itself. Viruses are the mechanism of adaption that enables life to find balance in all circumstances.
Viruses are very enigmatic. I suggest that they may be involved in maintaining homogeneity between the many cells of an particular organism, as well as in the species as a whole. I further postulate that they may be responsible for maintaining biologic order and genetic viability throughout all of life. They are Gaias mercenary that act as enforces of genetic order. They infiltrate and tare apart the DNA of aberrant cells and transport instructions to the rest of the body and trigger the immune system into making appropriate responses in order to re-balance the system. The anti bodies produced in these reactions can alter genetic expression. In this way the main body of the organism is able to overcome the "mutiny" and pass on the alterations to the next generation. Evolution occurs in accordance to whatever nature requires for survival within ever changing environmental conditions.
Scientist have discovered cancer viruses that are active in the majority of tumors biopsied and tested, but they fail to see the true connection between the tumor and the virus. Animals in factory farms that are raised in unnatural ways are host to countless new strains of cancer virus, and develop tumors regularly. Its natures desperate attempt to preserve the lives of these creatures in the midst of great environmental adversity.
Sadly I must digress that not all of these adaptions to GMO, antibiotics, pesticides, and other unnatural environmental contamination are ideal by any means. On the whole, I fear that irreversible damage to the genetic structure of large numbers of people is occurring in our present world, and will continue to occur well beyond the foreseeable future. Leaving a legacy of chromosomal chaos and epidemics of conditions like cancer that are associated with environmental degradation.
When the environmental degradation within the being too great that none of our natural means of coping are enough to bring the body back into balance, then the viral mutations can no longer be controlled by the immune system, and the damaged cells that would normally be eliminated are allowed to run wild, the result being malignant and often incurable cancer
Once the body reaches the state that it can no longer check the growth of the mutant cells, then it becomes very difficult even for all the kings horses and all the kings men to cut out the cancer and put Humpty Dumpty together again. Even the most holistic methods will often fail in the face of malignant cancer, because of the degree of genetic degradation that has occurred. There will never be an outright cure, but its possible that we can develop methods of best treating each occurrence case by case, utilizing holistic treatments designed to optimize the rejuvenative capacity of the individual.
But if the conditions that lead to cancer are recognized early enough and the appropriate corrections to food and environment are made then I am of the opinion that most need not ever have to worry about dying from cancer.
When it comes to cancer ,Prevention is the best medicine.
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Inducing a fever has also successfully been used to wake up the immune system and cure cancer:
A swamp area outside of Rome was a breeding ground for malaria infecting mosquitoes. The government decided to drain the swamps. The incidents of malaria went way down, but the cancer rate, which had been significantly below normal, almost immediately went up to the normal cancer rate in Italy.
http://www.naturalnews.com/031751_fever_cancer.html#ixzz2cD9ln9G0 (http://www.naturalnews.com/031751_fever_cancer.html#ixzz2cD9ln9G0)
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They use to treat syphilis by inducing a malaria fever.
This brings up another good point regarding the nature of cancer.
Since the advent and near universal application of vaccinations and antibiotics cancer rates have skyrocketed.
There may be a direct connection between suppression of viral infections and the development of cancer and other degenerative illnesses later in life
Even the treatment of mild childhood infections with antibiotics will suppress the development of the immune system to such an extent that would leave one susceptible to cancer later in life.
By interfering with the natural order, and suppressing the immune systems attempts to purge and restructure itself in these battles with viral outbreaks and bacterial & fungal overgrowth, medical science has disrupted the process by which the genetic structure of life have used to maintain balance since the very dawn of life.
By doing so they are responsible for weakening the species as a whole in order to persevere the lives of the weak, and preventing natural selection from taking its course. Cancer and genetic degeneration are in part due to the side effects of modern medical intervention.
Instead of recognizing the environmental reasons ;such as; processed factory farmed foods contaminated with a myriad of substances,plus large quantities of heat generated aberrant proteins etc: or the countless other pollution of land, air , and water; or the suppression of the immune function with vaccines and drugs; as the main culprits of the moderate cancer epidemic; it seems that the bulk of research being conducted to explain cancer away as some genetic disorder that is a result of faulty genes.
Saying cancer is genetic is a cop out and one the medical establishment can use to escape responsibility of having to uncover the actual factors of causation.
It irks me to no end when I hear some lab coat suggesting such and such a gene is responsible for such and such a cancer. Damn fools, Of course cancer has a genetic element to it, but the genetic predisposition is not some just some random occurrence, it is a symptom of genetic damage caused by trans-generational imbalances and abuses that arise as a result of environmental conditions.
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They use to treat syphilis by inducing a malaria fever.
This brings up another good point regarding the nature of cancer.
Since the advent and near universal application of vaccinations and antibiotics cancer rates have skyrocketed. There may be a direct connection between suppression of viral infections and the development of cancer and other degenerative illnesses later in life.
There probably is. That’s what GCB thinks and it’s a logical inference.
By interfering with the natural order, and suppressing the immune systems attempts to purge and restructure itself in these battles with viral outbreaks and bacterial & fungal overgrowth, medical science has disrupted the process by which the genetic structure of life have used to maintain balance since the very dawn of life.
Yes, but the instincto theory doesn’t see it as a battle. These bacterial and viral illnesses are precisely meant and wanted by the body to expel some toxins, the virus bringing a complement of genetic info (DNA or RNA) which codes a specific detoxination “program” for a particular class of toxins. But when a constant influx of toxins (produced by cooking or contained in non paleo foods and similar to the ones currently expelled} is repeatedly ingested during 3 meals or more per day, the “program” runs away out of control.
In the same way, bacteria proliferation is normally (under instinctive raw paleo nutrition) controlled by the immune system and the body uses these bacteria for specific purposes too.
By doing so they are responsible for weakening the species as a whole in order to persevere the lives of the weak, and preventing natural selection from taking its course. Cancer and genetic degeneration are in part due to the side effects of modern medical intervention.
Yes, except that even the lives of the weak ones has in several cases proved to be preserved with an instinctive raw paleo diet.
Now I'm astonished that malaria too could be effective against cancer!
Cheers
François
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If the story of this article is true then any placebo device or method is helpful.
http://www.sustainedaction.org/Explorations/placebo_effect.htm (http://www.sustainedaction.org/Explorations/placebo_effect.htm)
That was an excellent link, YS. Sorry about the poem joke, I was in a jokey mood at the time. The linked page has some good quotes:
"The nocebo effect is probably also the basis for so-called voodoo sickness--even voodoo death--that can occur when a tribal person knows he has been hexed."
"Clearly the placebo effect has been one of the most powerful forces for healing throughout human history and shamans may have been the first to harness it systematically."
I would say any placebo device or method is potentially helpful, as not everyone is helped by them. Nonetheless, the placebo effect has produced complete cures in some people. One of the keys is believing they will work, and one thing "the Iceman" Wim Hof stresses is that one should not embark on any of his therapeutic techniques without believing in it heartily and embracing it. Wim talks about the cold as being "my friend." Fear seems especially detrimental. Fears tend to lead to negative self-fulfilling prophecies.
This seems plausible, though my main point is to express notion that; if the rest of the being is strong enough then it will be able to contain these rogue cells and eliminate them from the body. Aberrant cell growth is common to life, and only becomes cancer once the bodies defenses become inhibited.
And perhaps when the host environment becomes hostile to cell survival via normal cooperative functioning. Humans are increasingly coming to be seen as more collections of organisms than single units. When cellular survival becomes at risk in the host environment, the normal cooperation can break down and it becomes every cell for itself.
The higher life forms require oxygen to live, whereas for the more primitive life forms like cancer cells, too much oxygen is death. Mitochondria are descended from aerobic bacteria that were one of the earliest life forms to thrive on oxygen. A lifestyle which boosts oxygen at the cellular level (seemingly paradoxically in part via hormetic intermittent hypoxia) not only inhibits cancer cells, it promotes mitochondria biogenesis.
I've discussed it before, but it bears repeating--it's rarely reported, but "decreased blood pressure and low oxygen saturation" predict "death within 48 hours with a 95.0% positive predictive value and a 81.4% negative predictive value" (http://www.news-medical.net/news/20120912/Blood-pressure-oxygen-saturation-predict-death-in-terminally-ill.aspx. (http://www.news-medical.net/news/20120912/Blood-pressure-oxygen-saturation-predict-death-in-terminally-ill.aspx.) These tests are cheap and effective but don't generate much revenue, so they are rarely used.)
Why is low oxygen a marker for death? One likely reason is that cancer cells thrive in low oxygen. Why is that? Cancer cells are cells that have reverted to their primordial origin, which was the days before oxygen when all organisms relied on carbs and/or amino acids to survive and oxygen was toxic to them.
Fever and/or infection have indeed shown anecdotal benefits in cancer treatment. It's currently unknown whether the mechanism is via heating the body or provoking the immune system to identify and attack cancer cells. Infections with fever have been correlated with killing of cancer cells and "scientists are trying to harness the power of fever and infection in a controlled way to treat cancer patients." (Jordan baffled doctors when his leukaemia vanished, new evidence suggests a remarkable explanation... can a fever cure cancer? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1313773/Can-fever-cure-cancer-Jordan-baffled-doctors-leukaemia-vanished-new-evidence-suggests-remarkable-explanation-.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1313773/Can-fever-cure-cancer-Jordan-baffled-doctors-leukaemia-vanished-new-evidence-suggests-remarkable-explanation-.html))
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Guy-Claude Burger's late wife, who died of cancer.
That doesn't speak very well for a raw diet........
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That doesn't speak very well for a raw diet........
I remember GCB explaining she over ate raw beef.
I can believe that.
One can develop allergies or over protein consumption on raw beef.
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I'll bet her diet was also low in resistant starch, which is commonly low in modern raw diets, but doesn't have to be.
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would you consider resistant starch any starch or sugar that doesn't get digested and absorbed before it enters the large intestine?
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RS is a special starch, not sugar. I guess you could think of fructooligosaccharides as being like resistant sugar. Fermentation is key, because if it's fermentable, that means the bacteria can eat it. Resistance is also key, because if it's resistant to stomach and small intestine digestion, then it can get down to the colon bacteria. Resistant starch is a fermentable fiber, as is inulin, pectin, fructooligosaccharides, etc., and resistant starch seems to be the most important one.
Not many people are eating much of it on any of the popular current diets in America--the SAD, typical versions of the USDA food pyramid, most raw "Paleo" and cooked "Paleo", low carb, Peatarian, and even some vegetarian and vegan, etc. Part of the problem is that the foods highest in RS tend to be rare or unpopular in the USA. Lots of folks in less modern old world countries still eat a fair amount of RS. Unfortunately, they too are eating less and less as more of their foods become processed in factories.
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thanks Phil, so here's what i'm wondering.. If one partially chews an apple, you'll see bits in your stool. Same thing with carrots, corn lettuce etc... Does not the sugars in those examples end up fermenting?
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I used to be really into Jerusulem artichokes... They created more frequent bowel movements, but saw no other gain in anything noticeable.
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Pectin and fructooligosaccharides are not like the simple sugars we normally think of. They are more difficult to digest in the stomach and small intestine.
Jerusalem artichoke is an inulin-dominant food, IIRC. Resistant starch is found in foods that are rarely eaten in current Paleo-type diets, such as green plantains, very-green bananas, raw potatoes, raw legumes (some are edible), etc. Did any of the Instincto eaters eat these foods? Resistant starch seems to be the most effective food at preventing and healing colon cancer, breast cancer, and some other cancers.
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Did any of the Instincto eaters eat these foods?
Many or most of us eat sweet potatoes. Few guys like raw standard potatoes. We eat some raw legumes, sometimes.
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Pectin and fructooligosaccharides are not like the simple sugars we normally think of. They are more difficult to digest in the stomach and small intestine.
Jerusalem artichoke is an inulin-dominant food, IIRC. Resistant starch is found in foods that are rarely eaten in current Paleo-type diets, such as green plantains, very-green bananas, raw potatoes, raw legumes (some are edible), etc. Did any of the Instincto eaters eat these foods? Resistant starch seems to be the most effective food at preventing and healing colon cancer, breast cancer, and some other cancers.
Phil, I'm still not seeing the difference of RS vs any undigested sugars or carbs that make it to the colon. For I believe they all will ferment. Now, maybe what you're saying is that the type of bacteria that prevails on RS is different than sugars or starch that makes it way to the colon in an undigested form. ??
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Many or most of us eat sweet potatoes. Few guys like raw standard potatoes. We eat some raw legumes, sometimes.
Yes, sadly true. Resistant starch appears to be a major missing piece of the puzzle, and not just in raw Paleo--it's missing from many popular dietary approaches. Sabertooth said that a number of people aren't seeing all their health issues fully resolve on raw Paleo. If so, perhaps RS (and other aspects of the Old Friends Hypothesis) could be one reason why.
Phil, I'm still not seeing the difference of RS vs any undigested sugars or carbs that make it to the colon. For I believe they all will ferment. Now, maybe what you're saying is that the type of bacteria that prevails on RS is different than sugars or starch that makes it way to the colon in an undigested form. ??
Yes, and that's just one part of it (the terms "fructans" and "pectin" seem better than "sugars" for the fermentable fruit fiber that makes it all the way to the colon--true sugars tend to be quickly digested much earlier), and as I mentioned before in another thread, this question and any others about RS that anyone could possibly imagine have probably already been answered multiple times in some detail by Tatertot Tim Steele, Richard Nikoley and others. At this post, I provided a link to more info:
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/fantastic-health-benefits-of-butyrate-6649/msg117108/#msg117108 (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/fantastic-health-benefits-of-butyrate-6649/msg117108/#msg117108)
And I created this post with links to still more info, including some details on why RS is special among the prebiotics:
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/fantastic-health-benefits-of-butyrate-6649/msg118261/#msg118261 (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/fantastic-health-benefits-of-butyrate-6649/msg118261/#msg118261)