Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet to Suit You => Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach => Topic started by: iceman on October 07, 2008, 05:57:32 am
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I have a strong urge to eat brains :D I have always had a strong urge to eat the raw squid at the fisherman wharf, or raw shrimp and lobster. I think my self is trying to tell me something!
I currently have a 66% meat diet, mostly smoked wild Alaskan salmon until I can sort out this raw carnivore thing.
This guy I used to work with, eons ago around 1990, bought brains from the local grocery store that came in a plastic tub container.I assume it was pre-cooked. He would put salt on it and eat it straight. Kids would scream, women would faint.
Anyway, I have recently come to the conclusion that brains are probably one of the healthiest things you can eat. Omega 3 DHA, cholesterol, nutrients. I was tested and I had very low cholesterol levels, which is not good at all, probably worse than having too high cholesterol. Brains might be cleaner than say, liver because (I assume) that animals have a blood brain barrier like humans do which keeps out some but not all of the contaminants. Lions and tigers and bears (oh my!) kill and eat the organs first, but I think they don't eat the brains quickly just because it is easier to gut a zebra than break it's skull open.
I AM a conspiracy nut, so the word "prions" gives me extreme caution and suspicion at the same time. In a world where the government tells you that all bad things are good and all good things are bad, I am trying to figure out a middleground like alternative sources of brains other than from cows or pigs, and maybe cooked but that supposedly doesn't kill prions. Oh, and I can't even find brains at the grocery stores any more. Were they all banned from a prion scare, the way tryptophan was banned right before Prozac was released to the market? Maybe an oriental grocery market would have brains. I ty to avoid eating anything from China because of contaminants.
So, any info on sources of brains or options other than cow/pig brains would be appreciated.
Awesome website by the way.
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Brains are illegal in the US. The only way to get them is to:
A: Kill your own animal by hunting
B: Make friends with a farmer and receive the brain as a gift from an animal slaughtered at the farm
C: Travel abroad to a contry that does not ban the sale of brains
D: get them illegally
I have been trying to get a brain for some time using method A and D -d
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Well now that must be why I can't find any brains.
What did Igor do in this situation? Didn't the Scarecrow look for a brain? Think think think...
Is it just cow/pig brains that are illegal? I'm guessing buffalo brains and sheep brains are illegal too, and any other livestock. Dolphin brains? Already banned. Whale brains? Banned. Hooker brains? Banned.
Looks like this brain thing will be on hold for an undetermined amount of time.
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Brains are illegal in the US.
Do you have any source for this? I'm not certain, but I don't think that this is the case. If it is true then someone should be able to point us to the appropriate laws.
While I have never had the pleasure of eating them myself, I know that the San Francisco restaurant Incanto has served calves brains at least once and as recently as last year.
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I immediately thought of head cheese when I saw this. Until recently, I thought, as we were told this, that head cheese was made out of brains. Apparently, it's the gelatin that gives it the appearance that there might actually be brains in it.
If it was served in San Francisco, anti-brain laws could well be at the state, county, or more local levels in this country - much as raw dairy.
Craig
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All I know is that cow' brains are forbidden to be sold in the UK. Other brains are, technically, allowed, even though some stupid farmers insist to me(undoubtedly lying) that all brains are forbidden to be sold. The trouble is that there's no market/demand for brains so they just don't bother and the amount they'd get for selling brains would be a fraction of what it costs for the equivalent weight in muscle-meats, so it's not worth their while.
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Brains are no problem in Switzerland; I must of got about 1kg of mutton/lambs brains 2 weeks ago; they are pretty to look at and one of the only organs I really like, healthy, easy to eat, kind of very special. I still have quite a few left and if I don't eat them soon, they will have to go out (I don't like to over do things - if I feel I need brains, then that is the time)!
The Bear loves brains too!
Nicola
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Here in Italy I can find calf brain as well.
I find it at the supermarket, as well as calf heart and liver, rabbit liver, chiken livers and heart (never tried chiken's organs raw).
Our tradition includes cow's stomach (it's called "trippa") but only cooked.
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Brains are illegal in the US. The only way to get them is to:
A friend told me a local middle eastern market right here in, "milwaukee, Wi USA" had brains. I would have to check that out.
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The other day I saw a squirrel by a Robin's (type of bird) carcass. I approached, and the squirrel ran away. The skull was open and empty. THE BRAIN WAS GONE! I wonder if the squirrel cracked the skull and ate the brain, just as he would do a nut.
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Hard to find brain in my area but a middle-eastern supermarket sells lamb brain and I can find veal brain in another one.
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Here in Italy I can find calf brain as well.
I find it at the supermarket, as well as calf heart and liver, rabbit liver, chiken livers and heart (never tried chiken's organs raw).
Our tradition includes cow's stomach (it's called "trippa") but only cooked.
Don't bother with calves' brain. Continental Europe has the most appalling reputation as regards providing low-quality calf-meat(ie veal). They are kept in appalling conditions and fed crap, so avoid it like the plague. I'm in a similiar situation in the UK, I can get hold of organic pigs' brains but they're all grainfed, unfortunately, due to stupid regulations.
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Agh...
Thank you Tyler ;) ;)
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"I can get hold of organic pigs' brains but they're all grainfed, unfortunately, due to stupid regulations"
pigs are omnivores, are they not?
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"I can get hold of organic pigs' brains but they're all grainfed, unfortunately, due to stupid regulations"
pigs are omnivores, are they not?
That's the whole point, pigs do NOT eat a 100% grainfed diet in the wild, they eat roots, leaves, small mammals, tubers etc. etc., as well as a little grain.
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Ok so I emailed a bunch of grass fed buffalo ranches and only one of them replied to my inquiry as to whether or not they sell the buffalo brains. Only one replied, asking if I wanted the brains for consumption or tanning. I replied saying that I wanted them for consumption but he never answered. :'(
Back to the drawing board. :D
ps - does anyone know what buffalo brains look like? If they are used for tanning they must be dark brown or something huh?
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You should of said tanning! omg big newbie mistake! it sounds like he would of given it to you!
It's best to not be honest, I always tell farmers, butchers it's for my dogs never for me and they are happy to give me unusual things really really cheap and for some reason they often chuck in some free stuff like old meat/fat which is totally fine or chuck in a marrow bone!
I'm a crap liar and know nothing about dogs so if they ask about my imaginary dog I just tell them it's a big one and its my brothers not mine.
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DoH!!!! (slaps forehead) -X
Ok I'm learnin... good thing you guys are schoolin me lol....
I should have some decent sources for meat here in Texas so I'm sure I didn't blow my only source. I'll keep tryin...
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come to think of it, find out a little bit about tanning and ring them up with pretending you want to tan.
Sounds like a possible, even reliable way to get hold of brains. No one needs to know ;)
I get brains from the supermarket, creamy... bland...a little scary!
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You should of said tanning! omg big newbie mistake! it sounds like he would of given it to you!
It's best to not be honest, I always tell farmers, butchers it's for my dogs never for me and they are happy to give me unusual things really really cheap and for some reason they often chuck in some free stuff like old meat/fat which is totally fine or chuck in a marrow bone!
I'm a crap liar and know nothing about dogs so if they ask about my imaginary dog I just tell them it's a big one and its my brothers not mine.
I agree, I've lost a few sources because I asked for unusual organs like brains or adrenals(and, on very rare occasions, letting slip that I eat the meat raw - doh!) - farmers are pretty limited people and probably feel they're doing me a favour by not providing me with such foods, out of concern for my health or whatever nonsense. Much better to pretend you've got a dog on a raw, prey-model diet.
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come to think of it, find out a little bit about tanning and ring them up with pretending you want to tan.
Sounds like a possible, even reliable way to get hold of brains. No one needs to know ;)
http://www.primitiveways.com/buffalo_hide.html (http://www.primitiveways.com/buffalo_hide.html) Braintanning is not a strictly Native American art, but was practiced in many parts of the world throughout human history. For example, the Iceman from Italy wore braintanned skins. ("Der Mann aus dem Eis "by Angelika Flechinger and Hubert Steiner, also "Leather" by Lotha Rahme on European tanning tradition)
Unlike modern day commercial tanning, braintanning is an environmentally safe way of tanning that does not use or produce any toxins or chemicals.
Seriously, sounds like a wonderful idea if you want tanned goods.
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Found this info The USDA only bans cow brains being used in the human food supply when they come from cows over the age of 30 months
I see it all the time in mylocal supermarkets. Only problem is that it's not Organic or Grass-fed. I would like to try it because it's supposed to be very high nutritious.
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From Natural News
The nutritional profile of cow brains
Good question. I don't think people should eat animals at all, but if you're going to eat them, the brain is actually one of the most nutritionally-dense organs found in any animal. From a nutritional standpoint, the brain is the best source of healthy oils in all land animals. In fact, human children who grew up eating the brains of animals have healthier brains and nervous systems than those who didn't.
Animal brains are also a very good source of cholesterol, and even though cholesterol has been named as a dietary culprit over the last few decades, that information is now largely understood to be incorrect. Cholesterol itself is not the culprit. Cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease. In fact, you need to consume some amount of cholesterol to be able to manufacture essential hormones.
Today, there's a lot of talk about healthy fish oils and cod liver oil. What is cod liver oil but the oil that's squeezed out of the liver organ of a codfish? In the same way, cow brain oil, if there were such a product, would be the oil squeezed out of the brain organ of the cow. They are essentially the same concept, and they both produce very healthy oils from a nutritional point of view. Everybody knows, for example, that DHA is an important oil for the brain health of infants and children. Those who eat more DHA have been clinically proven to be smarter in adulthood. And guess what's found in cow brains? DHA.
In fact, some of the best animal sources of DHA are the retina, the brain and another bodily fluid that's too gross to mention here as a food source. It's interesting that people who eat beef skip all the parts of the animal that would enhance their own brain function, isn't it? A lack of dietary DHA promotes heart disease, Alzheimer's, dementia and poor cognitive function. Poor cognitive function (i.e. a poorly performing brain) causes people to make poor decisions about diet, such as eating more beef. And so the cycle continues.
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Bump
But what about the dangers of Creutzfeld-Jacobs? Are there any? What were the reasons for the alleged ban of brains in the US? Where there is smoke, there is fire, methinks...
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Bump
But what about the dangers of Creutzfeld-Jacobs? Are there any? What were the reasons for the alleged ban of brains in the US? Where there is smoke, there is fire, methinks...
No danger if the meat is grassfed. CJD etc. was caused by consumption of rendered animal fat being fed to cows.
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The sale of brains has not been banned in the USA, AFAIK. A lot of places stopped selling them because customers stopped buying and probably also because sellers were afraid of getting sued if anyone got sick. Some places still sell them, and they're starting to make a come-back, especially in Hispanic communities, as people start to relax again. I think there was an article on this in one of the major American news periodicals. I've seen a lot of claims of a federal US law against selling brains, but haven't seen any actual specific law cited as evidence.
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I asked my butcher about brains. He says that beef brains were banned because of mad-cow disease. Is this true? (I'm in California.) He's asking his supplier about getting lamb brains.
I found the law on it. Brains are only banned from "cattle 30 months of age or older":
Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy - "Mad Cow Disease"
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/bovine_spongiform_encephalopathy_mad_cow_disease/index.asp#7
"Specified Risk Material - FSIS declared that skull, brain, trigeminal ganglia, eyes, vertebral column, spinal cord and dorsal root ganglia of cattle 30 months of age or older and the small intestine of all cattle are specified risk materials that are prohibited in the human food supply. Tonsils from all cattle are also not allowed in the human food supply."
There was never a total ban on the sale of cow brains in the USA that I've seen.
Cow brains still on menus
MAD-COW CONCERNS FAIL TO STOP SALES OF POTENTIALLY TOXIC MEXICAN DISH
BY ROBIN EVANS and CRYSTAL CARREON
San Jose Mercury News | Page 1A | July 2, 2004
http://www.rcevans.me/cowbrains.html
Brains, a part of cattle most likely to carry "mad cow" disease, remain a staple at many restaurants in the South Bay, particularly those offering tradi-tional Mexican cuisine.
...despite all the publicity, none of Laura Lopez's customers has questioned the safety of sesos. The manager of El Grullense on Berryessa Road, Lopez said she sells a lot of sesos, which are served in tacos, taquitos and quesadillas.
The U.S. Department of Agriculture has not recalled cow brains from retail markets or restaurants. But it did announce Wednesday that it will ban for human consumption brains harvested from older cows, in which the disease has had time to incubate.
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Thanks for the information, Phil. Also, thanks for directing me to this thread.
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Didn't someone tell me that Lex ate Slanker's pet food? In that section it says that they some times just grind up the whole cow! - which would include the brain and all the organs. That makes me wonder about the bones, the skin, fur etc. A dog can digest bone, we're not supposed to be able to - no? Can we eat skin? Some things I would think would be ok for dogs that are not ok for us. What could the dog eat that we shouldn't? Are there human limits as to parts we would be better off avoiding?
If you tell someone that you are giving it to your dog or will use it for tanning, would they handle the animal or animal part in a way that might not be good for a human that would be fine for a dog or make it only useful for tanning and not consumption by anything? Dogs have elements in their saliva that kill parasites - we don't. I mean - we can't bury a bone in the backyard and dig it up months later and eat the decaying meat off of it and be ok - can we?
The easiest way I to get every part of a grass-fed animal does seem like it would be to order pet food from slankers - but it is frozen - AND it is for pets so ........ aren't there concerns?
I'm new - so please forgive me if this has all been talked about previously. I'm just about to do an order from Slankers and start my dogs on their pet foods. Are there reasons for me not to put a spoon and take a taste? Aren't there dangers telling someone that the food is for a dog when it isn't?
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You could probably ask lex his opinion but based on eating alot of this stuff and still being somewhat sketched by it..I wouldn't recommend it to people getting started on the diet. It doesn't have the whole animal anyway and is minus brain. Its just fatty meat ground with spleen, heart, liver and perhaps tongue or one or two other things..sweetbreads..?
for the reasons you listed and others its more dodgy than regular (esp unfrozen meats) except unfrozen have the possibility of more living critters if that is ones concern. Some will say these are mostly benign to humans..or even absent in domestic red meats so generally unfrozen when available is often seen as safer by some based on bacteria stuff as well as the theories of freezing damaging food.
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Didn't someone tell me that Lex ate Slanker's pet food? In that section it says that they some times just grind up the whole cow!
Indeed, it does say "Sometimes we even grind up whole cows!"
A dog can digest bone, we're not supposed to be able to - no? Can we eat skin? Some things I would think would be ok for dogs that are not ok for us.
Traditional peoples eat small bones and bone broths, but not large bones. Both pets and humans can eat whole cows if they're ground up, obviously, but that wouldn't normally happen in nature.
What could the dog eat that we shouldn't?
Large bones and tough hides. Even dogs don't eat hooves or skulls and normally gnaw on the big bones rather than eat them completely. Hyenas, big cats and I think wolves can eat much of the large bones too, apparently, but not the skulls or hooves.
If you tell someone that you are giving it to your dog or will use it for tanning, would they handle the animal or animal part in a way that might not be good for a human that would be fine for a dog or make it only useful for tanning and not consumption by anything?
There are lower standards for pet food than for human food. Lex has written about it in his journal.
Dogs have elements in their saliva that kill parasites - we don't. I mean - we can't bury a bone in the backyard and dig it up months later and eat the decaying meat off of it and be ok - can we?
Sure we can (except maybe not if seriously immune compromised). Do a search on "high meat" here. There's too much for me to explain it all, but there are plenty of posts on it here, including a thread by Tyler in the newbie section.
The easiest way I to get every part of a grass-fed animal does seem like it would be to order pet food from slankers - but it is frozen - AND it is for pets so ........ aren't there concerns?
Lex reported that they have a new mix made especially for squeamish humans like you--so no worries.
I'm new - so please forgive me if this has all been talked about previously.
It has been. Most newbies are fearful about raw meats and high meats at first and ask a lot of the same questions until they eventually get over their fears.
I'm just about to do an order from Slankers and start my dogs on their pet foods. Are there reasons for me not to put a spoon and take a taste?
Not serious ones really, Lex Rooker has been doing it for years. I highly recommend reading his journal. I thought I had already, but if I forgot to, then I'm sorry.
Aren't there dangers telling someone that the food is for a dog when it isn't?
Slankers doesn't market or recommend their pet food to people. The people like Lex decide themselves, entirely on their own, to eat it. Slankers now has a human mix, so it's a moot question anyway.
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Thanks Phil. I have been making my way through Lex's journal but it is very long and some of it is quite confusing without a basic foundation.
Yes, I read Tyler's info on high meats and have read about them before, but if I remember right you keep them in the fridge or at least stir them - you don't exactly bury them in the backyard. lol. High meats also are not for newbies it seems - even newbie doggies.
I didn't see anything about that new mix on the Slankers website yesterday. I've been trying to read my way all the way through that too. I'll look more and then ask them before ordering.
My eyes are getting a bit blurry these days - so much to read!
So - if you get a ground up mix with more bones than a human would naturally eat - it would seem that it might be too much calcium - no?
I know dogs that chew on hooves. They sell them dried out in the pet stores for them actually. They really, really stink though once a dog starts on them. Pew.
I have totally gotten over the bacteria fear when it comes to eggs and dairy through slow education. How I did that partly though was through knowing my sources well and having confidence in them. That's the challenge with the meat. Frozen seems to take away any concerns regarding parasites, but needing to regenerate actual body tissue, I wonder about AV's comments on how frozen meats do not help with cellular regeneration and all the other jazz he says.
KD and Phil - what is your feeling on freezing vs. fresh meats both in terms of your own experience and your intellectual opinion on the "rumors" about frozen meat being so inferior?
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Oh - and Phil - what I meant by asking if it could be dangerous telling someone that the food is for a dog when it isn't ... referred to the brains discussion. I meant is it really safe to go to butcher for instance and tell them that you want the brains for your dog when you are going to be eating it yourself? I know that Slankers does not market their dog food for human consumption and people have decided to eat it anyway. I don't think I would tell my egg or milk vendors that I was going to only feed it to animals because I think they might handle the food in ways that I might not be comfortable with if I did that. I'd rather tell them what I will be really use it for and risk not getting the food. If it's just for a dog they might take the stuff that was say put out in the shed with paint cans or who knows what? Maybe I'm just still too much of newbie and overly concerned about such things.
I better go back and get through Lex's entire journal. I could barely get through the first posts of his medical lab reports and all his percentages of this and that though. Sigh. I wish he had a summary of his health history and progress. I'll suck it up and stick it out - if for nothing else to be able to come back to you Phil and say, "Did it!". :D
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feeling on freezing vs. fresh meats both in terms of your own experience and your intellectual opinion on the "rumors" about frozen meat being so inferior
If my flesh freezes, it gets numb, it feels burnt, it stings etc. Frozen meat tends to feel a little gushier, yuck. Test it out. Make high meat from fresh and frozen. Look at it. Test it on your dogs. Dogs would love high meat anyway. The local cats here like it.
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I don't think I would tell my egg or milk vendors that I was going to only feed it to animals because I think they might handle the food in ways that I might not be comfortable with if I did that.
The goat-share lady in my area had shareholders sign statements that say that we are going to use the raw milk for animal consumption only!
Sometimes you have to do business in a <wink, wink> manner to get around stupid laws.
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Thanks Phil. I have been making my way through Lex's journal but it is very long and some of it is quite confusing without a basic foundation.
There are at least three basic threads I noticed in Lex's journal:
1) The way of the skeptical epistemocrat: Nassim Taleb defines an epistemocrat as ”someone of epistemic humility, who holds his own knowledge in greatest suspicion.” Due to following wayward paths in the past, Lex has learned epistemic humility. He puts ideas to the test and is slow to draw conclusions. He tries to avoid making assumptions or relying uncritically on the claims of gurus or "what everyone knows" and he recommends that others do the same rather than make a guru out of him.
2) The way of the emipiricist: Lex started the journal as a way of testing Gary Taubes' hypothesis that it is essentially impossible to become obese on a low-carb diet by eating an all-meat (including organs and animal fat) diet. Many low carbers treat Gary like a god whose rules cannot be questioned, but Lex instead put Gary's claim to the test and the results brought Gary's claim into question, at least in Lex's case. Lex also found that the all-meat diet worked well for him, so he stuck with it.
3) The way of the red path (simplicity and antifragility): Lex prefers simplicity, which his all-meat diet fits nicely with. Adding complexity, particularly unnecessary complexity, obscures one's view and increases hidden risk.
If what Lex or Nassim write doesn't make sense, then I recommend reading it again and again until it does. If it still doesn't, then I recommend asking them questions.
Yes, I read Tyler's info on high meats and have read about them before, but if I remember right you keep them in the fridge or at least stir them - you don't exactly bury them in the backyard. lol.
Believe it or not, traditional peoples actually do that, though they tend to use methods that are a bit more sophisticated than just dropping meat in holes and covering them with dirt. They tend to first seal the meat in the hide of the animal and bury it a bit more loosely in a hole covered with rocks, sometimes lined with grass. The rocks are mainly to protect the caches from other animals (which is also a reason that dogs bury bones--and there is evidence that dogs also bury bones to improve them, as they do it even when they have plenty of food--in other words, dogs may consciously make the bones and meaty scraps more edible). Bear in mind that the Arctic earth is a lot cooler than that of most of the world, so a refrigerator is probably a closer emulation than the ground in most areas.
Here's a past excerpt of mine on the subject of high meat:
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/journals/a-day-in-the-life-of-tylerdurden/msg72756/#msg72756
The traditional Inuit ... put the meat in the hide of the animal (I wonder if the hide allows a small amount of oxygen in through the hide?) and tied it with the animal's tendons or something and then buried it either under rocks (just so other animals couldn't get it I think?), or in a grass-lined hole covered with loose dirt.
High meats also are not for newbies it seems - even newbie doggies.
I agree. I don't know why some newbies jump right into making inept versions of high meat instead of trying out raw meat for a while and learning more about how to make and store high meat properly. We had one fellow do that recently. He paid no attention to the instructions about high meat, claimed he got sick from his so-called "high meat" that he left out on a warm day, blamed it on raw meat in general and gave up on the raw Paleo approach after just a few days. No surprise there.
I didn't see anything about that new mix on the Slankers website yesterday. I've been trying to read my way all the way through that too. I'll look more and then ask them before ordering.
You could ask Lex or Slankers themselves.
So - if you get a ground up mix with more bones than a human would naturally eat - it would seem that it might be too much calcium - no?
Probably so. I imagine it could be particularly problematic for people who already have high levels of calcium and those prone to constipation.
I have totally gotten over the bacteria fear when it comes to eggs and dairy through slow education.
I do recommend eating probiotic foods (which you do anyway) and having a plan in place if you do overdose on pathogenic bacteria. Better safe than sorry. I'm thinking of keeping an emetic on hand, such as anantmul (ipecac, sarsparilla) powder. I had bad nausea once (I'm not sure if it was due to some miso soup I ate or old fermented CLO I took that I had left out of the fridge or a combination) and found that clay and ginger tea and raw honey didn't help any and I didn't feel better until I vomited what I ate back out (and then I was fine), so I'm thinking that if I get bad nausea again I'll just make myself vomit to get it over with, rather than have to feel bad for hours. I'm thinking I would also drink fluid before taking the emetic, to make the flow easier and avoid choking. Of course, this probably wouldn't be a good plan for someone prone to bulimia, but that has never been anything close to an issue for me.
I wonder about AV's comments on how frozen meats do not help with cellular regeneration and all the other jazz he says.
AV's comments regarding frozen meats don't bother me. I eat both frozen and fresh meats. I understand that Lex eats mostly frozen.
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Good points Zi. I think I will test myself and my oldest dog who's so miserable on fresh meat to see how we all do. The dogs already eat frozen meat so the next step up would be fresh. Tonight I bought some ground organic grass-fed meat at the store. SCORE! I'll take just a taste and give doggie with mange a taste. I used to give them all fresh meats from the store but not grass-fed and I had to go through bouts of diarrhea that weren't much fun. Maybe grass-fed will be different.
Eve - I've signed things like that before too - it's to get round the guvment - but the FARMER knew I was drinking the milk and not my dogs. I had to at one point to give a farmer a few dollars for a "share of a goat" - so that I legally owned one of the goats that she cared for. Such silliness. So, I would tell anyone else EXCEPT the butcher/farmer that I was giving it my dog. I would probably do a big wink and say with my utmost tone of sarcasm that OF COURSE it COULDN'T be for ME because I would never dream of eating that - and I would probably say out loud "wink, wink" or "a wink's as good as a nod - ya know?" And smack my lips or something - anything to let the person I'm buying from realize that I was going to be eating it - so don't go dragging it on the floor or whatever. But again - one day I might feel like my gut and immune system is so strong that such things wouldn't matter anyway.... hope so.
Phil - you are such a gem. That summary of Lex's journal will be extraordinarily helpful. Just one more question - did he come to the diet with serious health issues?
Hubbie and I were laughing at dinner tonight because he got a great fortune cookie. It was, "People come to conclusions when they're tired of thinking". Precious huh?
I feel like I want to spend more time on the Slankers site and looking around and planning before asking - just in case it's obvious and I just missed it - which is sadly way too likely and I absolutely refuse to ask Lex any questions without getting completely through his journal - so instead I bother you because I'm pretty sure you won't get TOO mad at me. :D
I'll have a few days because our street is being repaved tomorrow so Here I will be researching and reading.... and we got lots and lots of salmon to last us.
Your idea though to be completely prepared for any outcome when eating this new food is EXCELLENT. I will make sure I have my nux vomica 30c, clay and ipecac ready. Ginger, peppermint and licorice are staples. I too have never been anything close to bulimic or anorexic so making myself throw up because of eating something my body can't handle makes a great deal of sense instead of having to wait it out and let my immune system deal with it.... which usually means sleeping it off for me. I wish I had thought of these things after the prosciutto incident! If I'm going to keep on experimenting on myself I have to be ready that such a thing might happen again. Thanks a million times over for that idea. I will feel much safer now experimenting on myself.
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Yes, I read Tyler's info on high meats and have read about them before, but if I remember right you keep them in the fridge or at least stir them - you don't exactly bury them in the backyard. lol. High meats also are not for newbies it seems - even newbie doggies.
KD and Phil - what is your feeling on freezing vs. fresh meats both in terms of your own experience and your intellectual opinion on the "rumors" about frozen meat being so inferior?
I imagine to some degree that frozen meat is somewhat normal for humans to consume. My take is that since Primal Diets are often catered to very sick people they seem to be fussier sometimes over things that might not be crucially important to others. I do think these things have some substance to it and have experienced some things myself which implies that perhaps it is indeed important for some to be strict about...who knows
I was more saying at first that you might want to avoid the ground organ mixs etc.. at first.. by nature of there being more variables there. Some people are even against ground up meats to begin with. In general I wouldn't stress over that myself or including frozen meats and particularly fats in the diet ( I would skip previously frozen dairy) particularly if I as eating plenty of fresh foods.
Some people do seem to eat entirely frozen foods but there are many of other people (even those that see frozen food as something entirely natural on this site and don't buy into the AV criticisms) that have mentioned the importance of including a regular portion of fresh animal foods and varying amounts of fresh plant food. On one level you could argue that frozen retains nutrition but there are many things like taste which show that some vitality is gone in frozen food..like with a frozen berry or something. Of course the frozen berry beats a basement of rotten and fermented berries (unless ironically you are AV :) ) So there is a practicality element to frozen food. The high meat thing seems to be a common observation too (that one supposedly cannot really make it from frozen stock - I've made some attempts) So that is one indicator that the bacteria are changed more than just 'subdued' or something..and that possible pathogenic bacteria begin with freezing.
Its true that lex eats most of his food frozen, but if one is to take the same critical position that he basically embodies we cannot look to single individuals to prove that a diet is workable on the individual level or that it is the healthiest option given many options. I believe his main philosophy is finding a diet which facilitates a workable life that is healthy..it isn't about which ratio of fresh meat is ideal over frozen meat. For some maybe this is important. Even if AV's info is wrong or distorted, I doubt he would argue that this couldn't be a factor for some...just doesn't seem to be something worth stressing about on his end I imagine.
To someone like myself I notice some issues when eating lots of frozen meats, suet, and to a lesser degree:bone marrow and not eating enough fresh fats..so in this case I make sure I have plenty of raw fresh animal food and dairy fat with some plant fats. This seems to be the ideal solution or me.
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KD -that last post of yours was more helpful to me than perhaps you may realize. Thank you.
Comparing meat to dairy sure does help me because I am at this point very comfortable and familiar with dairy. When I froze my quark it became inedible for me because it tasted so bad in comparison, even though people talk about freezing dairy all the time. The butter was ok, but I felt like I had to eat about ten times the amount. A little bit of fresh butter satisfied me but it took globs before I started to feel satisfied from the same thing frozen. With the way that raw dairy stays good in the fridge even if more sour I would probably get an extra refrigerator if need be rather than fill up my freezer.
I often dehydrate and powder vegetables and eat frozen berries and think that because of availability and ease these are the best choices for me many times. With food there are many things that need to be taken into consideration and it is often about a gradient.
So it is going to take some experimentation to see if meat ends up being more like milk or berries for us.
Thanks again!
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Phil - you are such a gem. That summary of Lex's journal will be extraordinarily helpful. Just one more question - did he come to the diet with serious health issues?
Yes, IIRC, he discusses them in his bio (http://www.rawpaleodiet.com/testimonials/lex-rooker-usa/), his journal and elsewhere.
Hubbie and I were laughing at dinner tonight because he got a great fortune cookie. It was, "People come to conclusions when they're tired of thinking". Precious huh?
Yes, in science and Taoism, as I understand it, there are no final conclusions. We can only say, "this is the best understanding we have achieved up to this point, tomorrow we may learn otherwise."
Your idea though to be completely prepared for any outcome when eating this new food is EXCELLENT. I will make sure I have my nux vomica 30c, clay and ipecac ready. Ginger, peppermint and licorice are staples.
Sounds like you were already pretty well prepared.
I too have never been anything close to bulimic or anorexic so making myself throw up because of eating something my body can't handle makes a great deal of sense instead of having to wait it out and let my immune system deal with it....
Yeah, the trick will be determining when to try to soothe the stomach and when to try to empty it. With luck the latter should be rare.
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Phil - yet the other missing link of information! Lex's summary of his health journey. Exactly what I needed.
I'm glad I went and checked the forum again while I was sitting and reading through his journal. Now all those numbers he posts make much more sense to me.
You're like a guiding light. :D
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So, if brains from cows younger than 30 months can be legally sold, where can we buy them? If I had know this detail I might have gotten brains from the slaughterhouse I went to to get lungs, eyes, etc. I remember several of the cows they slaughtered were less than 30 months old. But they are far away and wouldn't ship.
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Some places that used to sell brains as people food don't anymore because the demand dropped off, so it depends on the place. Hispanic markets and restaurants in the Southwest USA reportedly still commonly sell them. I've never seen anyone sell them in my area, even before the mad cow scare. I'll bet some farmers would do it but some would probably look at ya funny. :)
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The link,http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Slaughter_Inspection_101/index.asp (http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Slaughter_Inspection_101/index.asp), has some good information regarding the inspection procedure that the USDA uses to identify if SRMs (Specified Risk Materials, which includes brain) are present in cattle being slaughtered. I have been reading up on this because I am searching for a source of beef brains and know that it will probably be a fight with the USDA and their inspectors.
According to this page, http://www.fsis.usda.gov/ofo/tsc/bse_information.htm (http://www.fsis.usda.gov/ofo/tsc/bse_information.htm), the appearance of the second incisor in the teeth of cattle is, according to USDA inspection guidelines, sufficient to consider the cattle to be 30 months or older, and thus certain parts, such as brains, are to be considered SRMs. So the actual age of cattle that you would realistically be able to have a processor get you the brains from would need to be 24 month of age or younger. The USDA considers their method to add a "margin of safety."
Does anyone know at what age grass-fed cattle are typically slaughtered? When I visited a small slaughterhouse the (grass-fed) animals being processed were young, about 18 months if I remember correctly. How old are animals processed for veal?