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Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Hot Topics => Topic started by: Aaaaaa on January 03, 2012, 01:38:41 am

Title: Germ theory information
Post by: Aaaaaa on January 03, 2012, 01:38:41 am
Hi everyone!
I am looking for information on the germ theory of disease; basically why it isn't true and what the alternative explanation is.  I have read what AV says about it, and I feel like his theory might be right, but he maybe has the explanation kind of wrong (like about how eating cooked vegetables can "cause" a disease instead of bacteria etc).  The virus = solvents, and bacteria & parasites = janitors, and "healing crisis" theories do make sense, but I'd like to find a more in depth, scientific explanation for them.
Your own words, links to articles, blogs etc...are all welcome!!
I did a search here and found some stuff, but nothing that definitively answered my question.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: TylerDurden on January 03, 2012, 02:50:31 am
Read up everything you can online about the "Hygiene Hypothesis". I am sceptical of Aajonus' claims too, but the hygiene hypothesis already has many, many studies supporting it. Look in pubmed website etc. for studies favouring the hygiene hypothesis.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: cherimoya_kid on January 03, 2012, 03:55:50 am
I think the hygiene hypothesis has a lot of good science behind it.  It's not the only factor, though.  Even a very healthy animal/person can be taken down by an extremely virulent pathogen.  Inborn immunity, or partial immunity, also plays a role.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Aaaaaa on January 03, 2012, 04:54:40 am
YES!  That is exactly what I was thinking!  The hygiene hypothesis makes a lot of sense.  However, I agree that its probably not so simple that it can by explained by one theory only.  I think they probably all have their true points.

How do you feel about this regarding eating raw animal products?  My understanding is that the pathogens that we would consume by doing this would most likely be ones that we evolved symbiotically with and therefore if your body is healthy and you are eating the right foods to heal/rebuild after your healing crisis caused by the bacteria/parasite/etc that they are essentially a neutral to good thing.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: RawZi on January 03, 2012, 05:57:53 am
    Having a strong immune system can be dangerous, look what happened in the flu epidemic of 1918.  My own immune system was functioning but making problems for me. Raw animal foods, even without any bacteria, help that. It gives me the nutrients I need so my immune system is more aware but not going nuts. With bacteria, like in highmeats?  Wow, that's a horse of a different color.  Seems it gives me the right bacteria to take over from other bacteria I might have.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: goodsamaritan on January 03, 2012, 09:42:06 am
In my experience:

- there are times when the hygiene theory is spot on

- there are times when germ theory is spot on

I observe and arm myself on all fronts. 
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Adora on January 06, 2012, 10:24:44 am
I just read AV theory and I was optimistic when I became very sick just for the first time in a long time, just after reading it. It all seemed so meant to be, but then I was eatting honey and my BS spent a week in the 500's and I felt terrible. I was taking a ton of insulin even after I was not sick. I still don't feel good, even a month later. I'm really tired and I mostly want to relax,  walk, and sleep. I did get a small period (sorry, but it's for science), and I haven't had that in 4 months. I'm hoping something good is going on below the surface. I'm thinking b/c I have diabetes any fluctuation is bad. I hoped that a friendly germ might help the autoimmune issue, but I'm not seeing any evidence of that yet.
     I've had my amino acid level checked 3 times over the years and every time it has been very low across the board. AV says he had people with low AA levels eat high berries. I have berries and they've been in my fridge over a month. He reported that after eating them all of the participants were very tired for months, but that when they felt good again they rechecked their labs and aa levels were good. I was wondering if I'm tired b/c something really great is happening, but I want to cry writing it b/c I doubt it.
    I'm also afraid to try the fruit, b/c I don't really want to be any more tired.
     I am still reading about Wim Hoff the "iceman" who can make his own heat. Not the same method as the Tibeten's but similar. I like his book, he is inspiring. He has had tests to show that his immune system is stronger after cold exposure. He has a whole method and the book is on Kindle for $10. I'm trying it slowly, and it is promising. In addition to my RAF only diet.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: CitrusHigh on January 06, 2012, 11:28:41 am
Hey Adora, it is definitely a process, it will take some time. Most of us have a lot of toxic accumulation from years of 'civilized' living. When all of that starts getting flushed and pulled and tugged out of the body it's not always a painless process. But the rewards are worth it. Just stay away from the honey for now. Perhaps down the road you can try more. It isn't necessary for healing, so stick with what is, raw fats, green juices/colorful non-root veggies, and your body will respond!
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Aaaaaa on January 06, 2012, 11:34:47 am
I agree with Citrus, Adora.  I do hope you start feeling better soon!  I wonder if maybe the illness activated your immune system, and the tiredness is the side effects of your body detoxing/healing.  I'm sure that sort of thing takes up a LOT of energy, and I believe a lot of healing takes place when one is sleeping.
I also remember reading that bit about "high berries"...its so tough to know if something is helpful, especially when its something like that, that is kind of unproven and could take months and months...:-S
I also have autoimmune problems (MS) and am having random symptoms since starting raw paleo (tingling in my feet when I look down), but otherwise feeling great!  So I'm just going to keep eating healing foods, and try and do better with my sleeping and stress-levels. 
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Inger on January 06, 2012, 10:12:42 pm
Oh Adora,
me too hopes you feel better soon!!!
I dunno what to suggest cause I have no experiences with diabetes.. -[
I just know when I eat too much protein like 200 grams / day, I do not feel good.
Have you checked out how much you get? I ususally eat about 120 g/day and that feels good. Some days less or more.
I know our liver converts excess protein to glucose so you might be careful when you have BS-issues..
I guess the advices already given are great BTW. :)

Inger
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: goodsamaritan on January 06, 2012, 10:26:59 pm
I just read AV theory and I was optimistic when I became very sick just for the first time in a long time, just after reading it. It all seemed so meant to be, but then I was eatting honey and my BS spent a week in the 500's and I felt terrible.

Some people lack some vegetable nutrition when they have diabetes / high blood sugar issues. 

Have you tried eating 1/4 of a raw bitter melon every day for 1 to 2 weeks? 

Type 2 Diabetes Cure: Eat Raw Bitter Melon Fruit Every Day (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGD0st_g6EM#)

and

Curing Type-2 Diabetes by Juicing Bitter Melon. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqQe26hNF1s#)
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: cherimoya_kid on January 07, 2012, 03:05:53 am
I've read celery is good for diabetes too.  Also, the white rind of watermelon is good as well.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Adora on January 09, 2012, 08:47:46 am
Thanks for the support.
I am feeling better, still really tiered, but my BS's are much better.  Inger, I have been wondering how much meet to eat when I first went to raf I ate about 2-3 large mugs full of various meat/ day. Now I don't eat 1 large mug/ day. I have a scale so, I'm going to keep it under 200g and see how I feel.
I eat a ton of veggies. I will try bitter melon, and I love celery, and I like watermelon rind. Thank you
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: van on January 09, 2012, 10:46:48 am
Adora I would really encourage you to go to  Dr.  Ron Rosedales's  web site and learn all you can from him.  I don't think there's another with his experience on diabetes.   good luck
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Aaaaaa on January 09, 2012, 02:06:51 pm
I have been listening to an interview with Aajonus about the swine flu, and now I'm sort of confused about what his theory on bacteria and parasites and viruses (or maybe I'm just tired LOL...), but I was wondering if someone here could reccomend any articles or videos?  Or if someone could explain it here in simple terms? 
Basically what I am hearing is that he says viruses are solvents, which are made by cells to detox when bacteria aren't enough.  Are bacteria also made by cells?  I didn't think so...?  What about gut flora bacteria?
I read somewhere that Aajonus goes with Beauchamp's theory VS Pasteur's theory? 
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: CitrusHigh on January 10, 2012, 03:42:57 am
Hi Sile,

I'll have to thank you for spurring me to do a little more research based on your questions. They brought me to this web site which is promising...

http://www.fearoftheinvisible.com/the-introduction-to-book (http://www.fearoftheinvisible.com/the-introduction-to-book)

I ran in to Aajonus' theory via Karl Loren's website via research on raw milk and raw foods. I wasn't raw at that point other than hunting some raw milk to address my then health issues. After initially dismissing the idea of consuming raw meat I returned to it a short while later and it made so much sense (actually raw foods over all, not just raw meat) that I pretty well dove right in without much more thought about whether it was right or not. It just made sense through and through. So I came to raw meat without really the aid of a guide or of knowing anyone else on the planet who was eating this way. Only quite a while later did I purchase Aajonus' second book and am only just reading his first. As such I came at it from the angle of common sense, not science. We are the only animals who cook their foods and we are, with the exception of our domestic animals and animals living on the fringes of human civilization, along with a few other exceptions, the only one's who experience disease on such a massive scale.

While I have now caught up in terms of the why's and how's of raw foods, especially raw meats, I still don't know exactly how germ theory fits in. Or what is true or false in regards to mainstream views of 'pathogens' or Aajonus' view or anyone elses.

I have learned that almost everything I thought was rock solid as an adolescent has turned out to be either wholly untrue or effectively untrue, but either way, the world is nothing like my parents, any of my elders or the mainstream has led me to believe.

Anyway, while I do not question that raw foods are the healthiest, we have a long way to go in understanding the mechanics. I do not think we 'need' to understand the mechanics to know that raw foods, whether vegetable or animal in nature are nurturing and lifegiving, but it does help to understand the how's in broader terms of understanding the way the world works. It also helps us to convey our stance to others.

So thanks for the push!
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Aaaaaa on January 10, 2012, 11:38:33 am
Wow, Citrus--thank YOU!  That website is super interesting.  I'm going to be reading articles there for quite awhile!
As far as my knowladge goes right now, it seems to me that the germ therory of disease AND the detoxification theory are both right in some ways.  I now know for sure that it is more than just "'bad'germ-->infects person = disease", that we are all led to believe.  It definetly has something to do with the environment that the person is in AND the enviromment inside the person.  It is amazing how many things that we take as "givens" turn out to be totally wrong!!  On that first page, it mentions how because science is SO specialized these days, that scientists are heavily relying on their predesessors to be right, since it would take forever to reproduce all previous experiments etc.  So if something isn't right, but gets assumed as being correct, and then all future studies are based on the assumption its correct, that can cause a huge problem!  Just look at the whole low-fat catastrophe!! :-S
I'm will be reading more on that website you posted, and reporting back! :-)
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: RawZi on January 11, 2012, 04:45:40 am
I've read celery is good for diabetes too. 

    I've heard it lowers the blood glucose levels and lowers the blood pressure in hypertensive people.

I ran in to Aajonus' theory via Karl Loren's website via research on raw milk and raw foods. I wasn't raw at that point other than hunting some raw milk to address my then health issues.

    I ran into Karl's site years before I heard of Aajonus.  I was still vegan and looking for supplements.  We wound up visiting with him and his family, sharing 'hits' of germanium.  Later when I was reading up about aajonus seeing if there was any truth in the primal diet I found what Karl wrote about trying the diet on his Vibrant Life site.  He was using lots of raw butter, raw eggs and raw chop meat, but was having a hard time getting raw milk from what I recall in the writing.

    The terrain being important rather than the bacteria, raw food is important IMO because it still has its integrity, not because it has germs.  Germs are just a bonus, if it has even enough to notice.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Aaaaaa on January 11, 2012, 06:29:26 am
I also ran across this interesting blog post, in one of the reviews for the book "Fear of the Invisible" (which I just bought...sounds facinating!  It sounds like the "good calories bad calories" of virology LOL)

http://exlibhollywood.blogspot.com/2008/07/gallos-egg.html (http://exlibhollywood.blogspot.com/2008/07/gallos-egg.html)

I haven't read through it all yet, but what I've read so far is very informative and seems very well researched.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Dorothy on January 11, 2012, 10:06:58 am
This is a long post for Adora regarding diabetes and detoxes:

Adora - I have experience helping other with diabetes. I learned because when my mother who had diabetes for close to 40 years needed to come live with me I told her that I would take total care of her as long as she was willing to eat what I give her and not complain - because I couldn't take care of an obese, blind person with no legs - because that's where things were heading. Within 3 months (and we did things slowly on purpose) she was no longer on meds and her blood sugars stayed stable from then on. The same strategy has worked for others on insulin too (learning what I did for Mom). You have type one which is more difficult - but not impossible. You must take into consideration not only the sugar aspects but the auto-immune aspects.

I'm going to say something that might be really unpopular but I'm going to say it anyway for your sake. A diabetic eating something that causes their blood sugars to stay maintained in the 500's is not suffering from a detox - but was doing themself real harm and is dealing with the repercussions. That level of BS causes massive strain and it might take you a good long while to get over it. 500 is an outrageously high bs level. Remember how I told you that honey was the one thing that even quite a decade after solid blood sugars could make my mother's blood sugars go through the roof and cause her real harm - more than processed sugar? She could eat all the fruit she wanted - but honey - very dangerous for her. Please, stop eating honey!!!

Detoxes are shorter lived and milder. The big problem that I have seen with people trying new diets over the 3 decades I've been into this stuff is that just about anything can be discounted as a "detox". Don't fall into that trap. A sniffly nose, some zits, smelly armpits or bad breath, a tiny bit more tired -- for a couple of days -- could be a detox -- but months of deteriorating vitality when tackling such a disease as type 1 diabetes to be dismissed as a detox could be really dangerous. Take what is happening to you seriously!

Just because someone wrote a book doesn't mean they have all the answers or that if your body reacts badly you should continue to believe them in spite of it. With all the conflicting gurus you have to follow what your body tells you is having a good effect or not - not the guru hundreds of miles away that has never met you. You have to follow your own body, your own knowing and your own intuition! You know that it wasn't a detox.

The trick to healing diabetes is to keep your blood sugars stable long enough for your pancreas to get enough of a rest to heal. Whether it takes insulin, meds or diet - you MUST get your blood sugars back in line and keep them there long enough to let your entire body heal up from the honey and prolonged high sugars.

You do NOT have to eat fermented berries to heal yourself if they do not appeal to you. Actually, at this point, I wouldn't take such chances if I were you. You need to get back to the basics.

What are the basics with diabetes? Stability of blood sugar levels! Do that, no matter what it takes. In terms of diet it for those I helped it took equal parts meat/protein, fat and vegetable matter - slow releasing sugar into the system with NO spikes. This will give you the carbohydrates to keep your brain functioning without putting extra stress on your system to convert the protein or fats, the fat to give long stabilization of the blood sugars and the proteins to rebuild yourself and also helps to maintain blood sugars. If you do this raw - you will take more stress off your pancreas and liver still. No fruit. No honey. Too sweet -- Too much sugar! Period. Once you heal you might be able to incorporate non-sweet fruit again - but remember - you are type 1. Getting your blood sugars stable is step one. Healing your immune system is step two. You can't heal until your blood sugars are stable.

If I were in your shoes I would not eat honey or fruit. I would eat equal parts meat/organs and fat and vegetables and I would not juice because the sugars go in too fast that way. If I felt worse from anything - I would change it... including what I am telling you here! If eating a third part of say fat doesn't make you feel good - change it.  Trust yourself.

When healing diabetes you should feel better and better and better over time. Never worse. Don't believe the detox excuses - it's just way too dangerous for you. You can't take such chances when you have such a dangerous disease. If your blood sugars went a little bit higher you could have ended up in a coma.

Ok - that's the end of my little tirade/lecture for Adora.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: goodsamaritan on January 11, 2012, 10:26:56 am
This is a long post for Adora regarding diabetes and detoxes:

Adora - I have experience helping other with diabetes. I learned because when my mother who had diabetes for close to 40 years needed to come live with me I told her that I would take total care of her as long as she was willing to eat what I give her and not complain - because I couldn't take care of an obese, blind person with no legs - because that's where things were heading. Within 3 months (and we did things slowly on purpose) she was no longer on meds and her blood sugars stayed stable from then on. The same strategy has worked for others on insulin too (learning what I did for Mom). You have type one which is more difficult - but not impossible. You must take into consideration not only the sugar aspects but the auto-immune aspects.

I'm going to say something that might be really unpopular but I'm going to say it anyway for your sake. A diabetic eating something that causes their blood sugars to stay maintained in the 500's is not suffering from a detox - but was doing themself real harm and is dealing with the repercussions. That level of BS causes massive strain and it might take you a good long while to get over it. 500 is an outrageously high bs level. Remember how I told you that honey was the one thing that even quite a decade after solid blood sugars could make my mother's blood sugars go through the roof and cause her real harm - more than processed sugar? She could eat all the fruit she wanted - but honey - very dangerous for her. Please, stop eating honey!!!

Detoxes are shorter lived and milder. The big problem that I have seen with people trying new diets over the 3 decades I've been into this stuff is that just about anything can be discounted as a "detox". Don't fall into that trap. A sniffly nose, some zits, smelly armpits or bad breath, a tiny bit more tired -- for a couple of days -- could be a detox -- but months of deteriorating vitality when tackling such a disease as type 1 diabetes to be dismissed as a detox could be really dangerous. Take what is happening to you seriously!

Just because someone wrote a book doesn't mean they have all the answers or that if your body reacts badly you should continue to believe them in spite of it. With all the conflicting gurus you have to follow what your body tells you is having a good effect or not - not the guru hundreds of miles away that has never met you. You have to follow your own body, your own knowing and your own intuition! You know that it wasn't a detox.

The trick to healing diabetes is to keep your blood sugars stable long enough for your pancreas to get enough of a rest to heal. Whether it takes insulin, meds or diet - you MUST get your blood sugars back in line and keep them there long enough to let your entire body heal up from the honey and prolonged high sugars.

You do NOT have to eat fermented berries to heal yourself if they do not appeal to you. Actually, at this point, I wouldn't take such chances if I were you. You need to get back to the basics.

What are the basics with diabetes? Stability of blood sugar levels! Do that, no matter what it takes. In terms of diet it for those I helped it took equal parts meat/protein, fat and vegetable matter - slow releasing sugar into the system with NO spikes. This will give you the carbohydrates to keep your brain functioning without putting extra stress on your system to convert the protein or fats, the fat to give long stabilization of the blood sugars and the proteins to rebuild yourself and also helps to maintain blood sugars. If you do this raw - you will take more stress off your pancreas and liver still. No fruit. No honey. Too sweet -- Too much sugar! Period. Once you heal you might be able to incorporate non-sweet fruit again - but remember - you are type 1. Getting your blood sugars stable is step one. Healing your immune system is step two. You can't heal until your blood sugars are stable.

If I were in your shoes I would not eat honey or fruit. I would eat equal parts meat/organs and fat and vegetables and I would not juice because the sugars go in too fast that way. If I felt worse from anything - I would change it... including what I am telling you here! If eating a third part of say fat doesn't make you feel good - change it.  Trust yourself.

When healing diabetes you should feel better and better and better over time. Never worse. Don't believe the detox excuses - it's just way too dangerous for you. You can't take such chances when you have such a dangerous disease. If your blood sugars went a little bit higher you could have ended up in a coma.

Ok - that's the end of my little tirade/lecture for Adora.

Super awesome advice, Dorothy!

Can I feature your post in my blog at www.curemanual.com (http://www.curemanual.com) ?

How about the credits?  Your real name, or the username here?
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: van on January 11, 2012, 12:08:33 pm
Well said Dorothy, that was giving of you to put it all into words for her. 
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Dorothy on January 14, 2012, 10:21:03 am
Ah GS. You don't know how lucky you are to be living where you are! In the US it is illegal for me to call myself a healer and give out advice. Giving out medical advice without a medical license is a big no no. I never got any degrees (kept on studying just up to that point without taking the degrees) because with degrees comes even more danger.

You are welcome to copy anything I write, but please always put in a tag line that says I'm just speaking of my own experience and that I am not a health care professional and that everyone should consult their own health care professional. That's what everyone in this silly country has to say before they say just about anything. Please do not use my full name for the same reason.

Medical doctors that know how to help people in this country are not allowed to. They cannot even say that they are naturopathic doctors or that they prescribe homeopathic medicine. If they advertise as holistic, naturopathic or homeopathic they will lose their license to practice medicine. If a doctor were to tell someone how to easily cure cancer that wasn't the standard medical slice and burn their entire practice and their life savings could be taken from them. No one is allowed to say that they have a cure for cancer without being attacked with gigantic force. If you put yourself in the position of trying to disseminate that information in this country - those that make massive fortunes off of the cancer industry will hit you with everything they've got.

In this country it is illegal to put your hands on another person to heal them. You first have to get a license to practice something like massage therapy. If you want to practice homeopathy you have to get a degree in acupuncture - but if you step a little bit out of line you can lose that license. You can never say that anything cures cancer or diabetes or you are in serious trouble. You can say that this person experienced remission or that person has their diabetes "under control with diet" - never the word cure. Any company that says an herb or supplement or holistic procedure cures anything - gets closed down. If you are caught prescribing anything to anyone that actually works whether you have a license and degree or not - most of the time you are breaking the law.  It's actually illegal to even give someone dietary advice.

So please do spread the word from the safety of your more sane country. Tell everyone that cancer is not something to be terrified of, that diabetes responds to diet very well. Here in the United States the first cause of death is cancer - which is preventable and treatable. Tell people that radiation and chemo DO NOT prolong life expectancy, but if avoided there are many other things that DO. Half of all men and a third of all women will have to face it and just about everyone will have to face it when a loved one gets it. The second cause of death is heart disease. Let everyone know that getting rid of bad fats and eating good fats cures that. Then there will be so many fewer people to suffer from the third cause of death, medical mistakes. Because GS - I'm not allowed to. I am not saying any of those things, because I am not a doctor, and if I were a doctor, I would have my license revoked. So it's up to you!
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Adora on January 18, 2012, 06:51:10 am
Hi Dorothy -
     I just saw your post. Thanks, it was good to hear, I love your straight talk. I have not eaten any honey and my blood sugars are much better, and I'm back to my original basal rate of 0.6units/hr. I don't think I ever want put myself through eating honey again. I'm a true carb addict though and so, I have less anxiety to just say not for now. I knew everthing you were saying in the back of my mind, but it can be so confusing in the midst of it. I am still tiered a lot, but so is my daughter, so we just go to bed 8-9pm and sleep 8-12 hrs. The thing is we are never done. I don't know why she is still so tired, she eats paleo, but she cheats not like other kids. Still, we need more sleep so we just sleep. I'm not going to do the fermented fruit based on your advise and I just don't feel like taking any more big diet risks now. I do eat 1/2 - 2 pieces of fruit each day, it helps keep me more stable. Most days it is just 1/2. I spill ketones like crazy with out any fruit. I am trying to wean off it, but my work and home are filled with chocolate and baked goods, which I never touch, but when I'm really tempted I have a small piece of fruit and I feel metally better.
     
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Dorothy on January 19, 2012, 02:43:14 pm
Hi Adora,

I know, when you are in the throws of things and you are sick and it's YOU that it's happening to, it can be intense. I'm glad that you were ok with my straight talk.

The fact that you can avoid all the temptations around you is a great thing. Fruit of course is usually dramatically better than processed sugar. And, there are high sugar fruits and lower sugar fruits too. Having a bowl of berries is going to be quite different than having a bowl of mangoes and dates. Do you check your blood sugars after the fruit? Are they stable? That's how you know of course. The whole goal is to keep your blood sugars stable in the proper range without medication. If you don't have to take insulin after eating certain fruits - then it's an indicator that those foods do not necessarily have to be completely forbidden. But if you eat the fruit and an hour later your blood sugars are through the roof - well - you need even more will power to avoid all the chocolate and the honey AND the fruits - because you have avoid anything that spikes your blood sugars if you want to heal.

If you have to - post a picture of a person with amputated legs on your refrigerator. I know - gross - but the damn doctors don't tell people that diabetes is controllable with diet (which is proven and accepted) because they assume diabetics won't follow the advice. But...... they also don't tell diabetics what is going to happen to them if they don't control their diabetes with diet. With medication horrors eventually happen and with proper diet - they don't - even if the blood sugars are maintained equally both ways. If the doctors had the strength to scare their patients enough by telling them the truth of what happens over time, then their patients might find the strength to stick to their diets. The skin looking horrible, going blind, having legs chopped off, being in extreme pain from neuropathy, not having any energy, having your heart disease and all the pain and trials of that, organ failures  .......... these are all the things that you Adora are going to AVOID in your future because you are willing to avoid the carbs now. What you are doing for yourself and your daughter is monumental. There is no greater gift you can give to your daughter than to heal yourself. Nothing.

It makes sense that you are tired after such high blood sugars. Make sure you drink enough water. That's particularly important for diabetics. And - keep on testing your blood sugars. Don't go into denial. Make sure you know how every food affects your blood sugar. If something makes your blood sugar spike post a picture of that food right next to someone without legs. Avoiding that food means avoiding that horror. You need to make sure you don't close your eyes even though it's so overwhelming. Never allow your blood sugars to get so high again and do whatever you have to to keep them in the proper range. This is going to be the battle of a lifetime but you can do it. Stay aware even though you are so tired. You are fighting against carbs for your life.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Adora on January 20, 2012, 12:13:26 pm
Dorthy
I check my BS 7-12x/day. I use my pump to try to limit highs and lows, but I always have them. My BS is 200- 350 for 1-4 hrs even after a raw veggie, meat, and fat meal, and they can be a little worse with fruit and dairy. I have cut my portion sizes down, and now I'm eating for 5 hrs/ day and fasting the other 19. I know that dairy (even fermented) and fruit raise my sugar even more, but I'm just not ready to let them go yet. They comfort me. I'm new to this and I've had bad rebounds with too low carb a diet, so I'm going slow. If been trying to take more insulin at a slow rate for those 4hrs., but I'm risking lows and they complicate things too.
Four years ago I fasted 9 days. I was very week and I struggled with severe insulin resistance for months after, and even on the 9th day I was still taking 4 units/day. I didn't cheat on the fast, but I started to get a feeling of impending doom and I knew I needed to eat that day.
     I am a brittle type 1 who has been dependend on insulin 13yrs. If I can come off. It will be because of many things coming together, at the right time. Then, I have to stay off and eat and live life. I was able to come off insulin 10yrs ago. I did great for 2 months. I was a raw vegan then, so when I tried again I did the same thing, but it didn't work.  I couldn't maintain on raw vegan. I had energy but the cravings were intense. So, on my last night with out external insulin I ate an amazing amount of beef, brownies, and ice cream.
     The difference now is that I know I can maintain it. I feel so deeply nourished and calm with RAVF that I trust my body. I've been trying to go in steps. I heal to a point and then nothing seems to be happening, then I figure out what the next step will be, is it exercise, meditation, food elimination, decreasing portion size, or carbs. Is it adding a food, or nutrient. My BS are almost always better midspring to early fall. I started this diet on a low biorhythm. Also, getting a bad cold and hurting my knee seemed to have set me back. I am learning from them and I am more determined today than yesterday. Much of my strength comes from the people here. I don't care if I get bad advice. I appreciate that people are helping think things over. I take full responsibility for my self and my choices. I've learned a lot from my bad choices.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Adora on January 20, 2012, 12:54:30 pm
I am long winded.
    I forgot that the amputations, disease, and death don't motivate me one bit. I thought for a long time that they should, but they depress me, and they should. I am motivated by hope, promise, love, joy. I want to live free. I am meant to. I am fighting for my freedom from disease and medicine, and institutions. ..."I'm a true nature's child and I was born to be wild."   - I used to think that meant "drugs, sex, rock and roll. --- Now, I think it means having deep meaningful relationships with myself, then nature, god, and loved ones. This requires a great effort b/c by the time I began to wake up I was dependant metally and physically on the false system of cages and plastic bait that I was born into. I think this is true of MS too. Being diseased is pervasive. It can get a hold of your mind.
     I am in charge of my mind and I choose to be loving and watchfull of my thoughts. I let my mind help me think up good things. If I have unloving thoughts that I can't gently talk my mind out of. I realize that my mind is suffering from something that needs immediate attention. I will not loose my mind for a second, although it is very healthy to be out of it. -- you get it right? I pay attention to what soothes my mind, and what I need when I am stuck. Some of the standbys are a bath, or a walk, eating animal fat, I also need salt, (I prefer to get it from sea veggies, and I keep wanting to suck on some shell fish, but they are never handy. Diabetics loose a lot of salt in urine.). If all else fails, I go to bed. If I wake up stuck I watch a good movie, still stuck I feel my stuckness, breathing into my fear, frustration, and stuckness, and  just sit with it, promising myself I will sit all day. Then, I begin to feel overwhelmed with something like I'll never get out of this, which morphs into sadness, fear, anger and then I just feel it in the form of tears or ranting, accompanied by kicking and shaking. Similar to a temper tantrum, that I just encourage my body to play out or discharge for my mind. Then, I'm much better  - for awhile.
That felt good.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Dorothy on January 20, 2012, 01:06:47 pm
I wrote this post before your second post above got sent Adora:

Ah - Adora - you are so ahead of the game. You have already come a long way indeed. Most people that I speak to with diabetes have not come anywhere near your clarity.

So you test your BSugars often enough and you already know that fruit and dairy make your blood sugars go up, but are working on it - struggling with the emotional and physical aspect of that knowledge. That is very good. That's half the battle right there. You do your best to keep your BS in the good range - but of course - have to deal with the swings to low side which also can be dangerous. It's a very delicate balance.... almost impossible when dealing with spikes..... the dips are bound to happen. At least you understand that what you are working towards is that stable range without the spikes and the inevitable dips that come with spikes. I'm glad that you are not trying to just go off your medications before arriving at a healthy stable baseline first. That's smart.

Fasting such a long period each day  I'm not sure is prudent - but you need to follow your own inner knowing. Long fasting periods are usually highly detrimental to diabetics as it puts added strain on organs already strained to keep blood sugars from going too low. The idea with healing is usually to take as much strain off the adrenals and pancreas and immune system as possible to allow them to heal. I personally would experiment with eating more frequently for more of the day and eating just before going to bed as well to see if that doesn't help energy levels. Diabetics that have fasted a long time often have trouble waking up and getting their energy going. The body goes into the lowest levels of stasis as it can and still survive. Frequent meals over a long period teach the body that it's ok to come out of stasis. If you eat more frequently and for more hours of the day it might be easier to avoid carbs. Diabetics often have to eat before they get hungry because when the blood sugars dip there develops an outrageous desire for carbs to force those levels back up to save the brain - panic sets in. With enough meals over enough hours of a day, panic can be avoided. The brain needs constant feeding. When the pancreas and adrenals are not working right, the only way to keep that feeding happening is by eating frequently. Then the brain doesn't send out a distress signal that carbs must be eaten at all costs immediately for survival. If constant fat, protein and slow-burning carbs are eaten frequently enough the brain as well as the adrenals and pancreas can learn to relax.

If you can give up everything that makes your blood sugars spike - then you will likely be on the home stretch. It's easier said than done - but I'm sure you will be able to do it when the time is right. When you do give up the foods that spike your blood sugars I bet that the stable nature of raw animal foods will make it sustainable for you. I can't wait to celebrate that day with you when it comes.

I've said all all I have out of a desire to be of assistance. I wish you only the very best. Please forgive me if I have been too forward. My good-will is quite sincere.

Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Dorothy on January 20, 2012, 01:16:48 pm
In response to your second post:
Positivity is a beautiful thing in general.
If your blood sugars are in range celebration, relaxation and everything motivating is only good.
If your blood sugars are in the 500's though... first put out the fire - and then take the bath.
Do whatever it takes to motivate you to give up the things that spike your blood sugars. Anything - everything - that works for you.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: goodsamaritan on January 20, 2012, 02:10:48 pm
Adora,

Did you get to try eating fresh raw bitter melon fruit?
With seeds and skin?

Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Inger on January 20, 2012, 03:01:18 pm

    I forgot that the amputations, disease, and death don't motivate me one bit. I thought for a long time that they should, but they depress me, and they should. I am motivated by hope, promise, love, joy. I want to live free. I am meant to. I am fighting for my freedom from disease and medicine, and institutions. ..."I'm a true nature's child and I was born to be wild."   - I used to think that meant "drugs, sex, rock and roll. --- Now, I think it means having deep meaningful relationships with myself, then nature, god, and loved ones. This requires a great effort b/c by the time I began to wake up I was dependant metally and physically on the false system of cages and plastic bait that I was born into.

Adora, I guess we are sisters in our hearts.
I just want to give you a HUG.
For me it is huge help to have time. Much time. To come down, to find my inner peace. Silence. It is so healing to me.
Like, so I can feel the energy around me, the love.. it is just there! Because I know it is there, all around.
I just have to open up - to be peaceful to be able to feel it.  :)
I love to step around in the forest. Just be there. Enjoy the energy.

I think Dorothy really have some great knowledge there! I wish I could have something helpful to say.
I do not know.. but
I come around this the other day Adora, that colostrum might be helpful for diabetes.
I did some reserch because I started to drink colostrum myself a few weeks ago, to help regeneration as I started lifting.
I can get it frozen and raw in the shops here.
I have no negative symptoms from it as I usually have from dairy! It feels great to me so far!
It tastes quite nice too. Sometimes I eat it with wild blueberries. :) Here it is plain;

(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/3627/inkkubikiniss004.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/829/inkkubikiniss004.jpg/)

I usually drink about 1 cup / day.
Here you can read about it;

http://www.carttonic.com/files/file_download.php?fi_id=683 (http://www.carttonic.com/files/file_download.php?fi_id=683)

There are much more information out there if you want to search!
Maybe I can search for you if you like to read more about it?

Inger

Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Inger on January 20, 2012, 03:28:42 pm
Here is little bit more info..

Quote
Health-promoting effects of bovine colostrum in Type 2 diabetic patients can reduce blood glucose, cholesterol, triglyceride and ketones.

Bovine colostrum (BC) has been reported to enhance immune function, reduce fat accumulation and facilitate the movement of glucose to the muscle. However, very few attempts have been made to examine its anti-diabetic effects in diabetes patients. The aim of this study was to evaluate whether BC decreases blood glucose, as well as cholesterol, triglyceride (TG) and ketones levels, which can be elevated by obesity and stress in Type 2 diabetic patients. Sixteen patients (men=8, women=8) with Type 2 diabetes were randomized into the study. Each ingested 5 g of BC on an empty stomach every morning and night for 4 weeks. Blood glucose, ketones (beta-hydroxybutyric acid), total cholesterol and TGs were measured every week. In both the men and women, blood glucose levels at 2 and 8 h postprandial decreased continually during the experimental period. The rate of decrease in blood glucose at 8 h postprandial was not different between the men and women, but was higher in the women (14.25+/-2.66) than in the men (10.96+/-1.82%) at 2 h postprandial. Total cholesterol and TG levels decreased significantly in both the men and women after 4 weeks. Also, beta-hydroxybutyric acid level decreased with BC ingestion, but this was not significant. These results suggest that BC can decrease levels of blood glucose and ketones, as well as reduce cholesterol and TGs, all of which may cause complications in Type 2 diabetic patients.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18602824 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18602824)

Colostrum is also said to be very healing for the gut. In Finland there is some scientific research on the subject.
Very promising. Hospitals are using it also to treat damaged guts. But it works only raw!
Pasteurized - no effect whatsoever.

Inger
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Dorothy on January 20, 2012, 09:40:39 pm
Something struck me when I woke up this morning. I think why the negative consequences of diabetes have such an importance  for me is because I lost so much to them. I've never had diabetes, but I spent many of my own years and precious life-force caring for someone who I loved so very dearly and who would not change their diet until it was too late to reverse most of the damage. As a daughter, even though my mother did not want to deal with her disease head on - I had to. She would not stop eating things that made her blood sugars go high... so I spent my life dealing with the consequences... the trauma.

Watching my mother made me willing to change my own diet early enough in my life to became strong and healthy enough to withstand the onslaught...... but still...... what a cost..... to me and my husband.

Diabetes is a very slow insidious disease that doesn't have the same kind of dramatic wake up calls as other diseases can for the sufferer. I ended up taking care of my mother for my adult life as she slowly deteriorated with her getting used to her deterioration and accepting it...... but I never did... because it was actually harder on me than her I think.

After her recent death at 85 years old (to me still recent at half a year ago as I'm still reeling from the change) I am coming to terms with getting my own life back from the grips of diabetes. It is startling, unbelievable to me how much space, time and energy I now have at my disposal..... how much I gave up ... because now ... finally...... at this late stage...... I can finally take my life back for myself. I am processing the grief of losing my mother still - but also the grief of my own lost life.

One more point I just gotta make and then I'll only talk more if you ask me directly to Adora: If my blood sugars go over 100 I feel the intense stress it causes to my body. Blood sugars into the 200's let alone the 300's take a bite out of the kidneys and nervous system function every time they are reached. Potassium and sodium levels get harder and harder to balance for the kidneys with the sodium being washed away and the potassium getting harder and harder get rid of the excess. It's the electrolyte imbalances and the kidney damage that is the core of where the damage takes hold. Without proper electrolyte balance nothing can function well.

I know that you don't want to think negatively. I understand that more deeply than you can know.... and yet..... to understand how to heal --- the disease process needs to be understood properly. You can eat things that are healthy, healing and balancing - but if you do not stop eating the things that you already know make your blood sugars go higher you will be fighting against the damage already done and being done. Getting energy back can't happen when your blood sugars are spiking. Your kidneys, pancreas and adrenals won't get the rest THEY need. The most positive thing you can possibly do from your body's perspective (which includes your brain/mind) is to stop those spikes and the only way to do that is to stop eating things that create those spikes.

I wish I could go back and talk to my Mom knowing what I know now 60 years ago. I did try to get her to change her diet early enough to avoid most of it though. I wonder if I could have been able to tell her the affects, what would happen to me, if she would have done it. Maybe that's why I'm trying so hard to tell you instead. I now know exactly what it takes to stop the disease early in its tracks. I know that it takes tremendous will power. If I knew what I know now and what happened later because of it all those years ago I would have moved in with my mother and gave her my will. I would have done anything I had to stop her from putting things into her that made her blood sugars spike. I would have done an intervention because there is no more powerful drug than carbs to a diabetic. Back then I thought to myself, well, if she wants to do that to herself, it's her life....... but in actuality it wasn't.... because I loved her, she was my family and I was totally committed to her... so it was my life too.

I don't regret any of it. I'm just still in mourning for us both.

But you aren't my Mom - I don't even know you. So please forgive me if I went on too much  and take from my long experience whatever is of value and drop anything that is not.

Blessings and light to you.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Adora on January 22, 2012, 04:32:40 am
I forgot the bitter melon, but I'll get it this weekend. I have tried it before, years ago. I don't remember it changing things, but I want to try again. Thanks for the suggestion.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Adora on January 22, 2012, 08:10:02 am
Hi Inger - I would like to try BC. That was encouraging. Three cows at my CSA are going to calf any day now so it was a good time to learn this too. I don't know if they will save it for me, but I will ask. If not I will find it fresh/frozen from some where. Also, I like you too and I love to read your posts.

 This is going to be long and nobody has to read it I was going to PM Dorthy, but some folks like a story, so every one is welcome to eat from this raw dark heart of my healing journey.
     
     Hi Dorthy I REALLY APREICATE EVERYTHING YOU HAVE SHARED. Please don't stop. I find it all valuable. I know you're not my daughter and the story is different, but I do have a beautiful 15yr/o daughter. Before I became pregnant my grandfather died during an elective surgery to repair damage from a previous surgery on his mitral valve. He was 70 when they said he should have surgery. He was very functional, but they wanted to repair the defect before he had complications. He went like a lamb to the slaughter. He was such a smart, good man. He questioned and checked into everything in his life except his priest and his MD. My grandparents raised me and loosing him was like loosing my father. I was devastated and scared. I really didn't trust doctors and I had no insurance, so I didn't go to a doctor even when I was pregnant. I found a midwife and found I had diabetes. I was 7 months pregnant. I was in school to be a chiropractor and I was into alternative medicine then too. I ate a healthy whole foods diet while I was pregnant, no junk but, I ate "healthy cabs". I eliminated all carbs and was able to maintain normal BS. So, they decided to skip insulin. I was under a lot of stress though and Ivy was born 2 weeks later. She was 21/2 months premature and she was so, so sick. Every day she almost died from something, but 21/2 months later I took her home. She did very well at home and is strong now. I didn't watch what I ate at all while she was sick. They said diabetes would go away when I wasn't pregnant and I was consumed with my baby's sickness. I rechecked my BS around the time she came home and it was high, so I decide to eat healthy. I went to macrobiotic thinking it was great at the time. My BS were often not good. I tried many diets, prayer, chiropractic, energy medicine, crystals, supplements, I feel like I have done it all. Now I realise that my diet, no matter how perfect, is only a part. To reclaim my health I have to do EVERYTHING to be healthy  -- Sleep, exercise, meditate, play, love and be loved, and stay in deep peace through EVERYTHING.
     When Ivy was 2 I hit a wall I hadn't taken insulin, and I was sick. I couldn't tell whether I was awake or asleep. I would slap myself hard then cry because I still couldn't tell. I don't know exactly why it manifested that way, I ran a 24/7 race from the drinking fountain to the toilet. I peed my bed every night. I talked to god all of the time and I herd god's voice, It was beautiful, so full of love. It was honest and fun. The words were always few and simple, but the feelings evoked from the sound was packed with meaning and full of emotion. Sometimes it was female and sometimes male, but the presence of the other was always there, like if one parent was on the phone and the other was listening, you can feel the quiet one there. One day I was stuck in a hot concrete place and I looked around to find something pleasent to look at. I saw a sapling it had a beautiful blossom and I felt my love for this bit of nature that was allowed in that place. I thought the words, "how beautiful," and I heard, "yes, but you will not gaze on it long." I understood that she meant I would soon die, and is that what I wanted? There was no judgement, no fear, - love  and safety came to me like a river. I didn't know, it seemed like I had no choice, but I heard choice in her voice. I don't remember any more words but, she stayed, infinite patience waiting for my answer. I thought for days of what would become of my little daughter with out me. There were people who would take her, but only I was right for her. She had fought for her life and I would fight for mine. The choice was made. The close presence of god receded to wherever and life went on.
     I have been given many blessings and this was one. I believe I would not have herd god's voice the way I did if I weren't walking at the edge of death for months. I think the most logical explanation is that my electrolytes were so depleted from gallons of water that I hallucinated. The spiritual explanation is obvious, and I think it was both. I am glad I have diabetes, it is a blessing, I am who I am because of it. I wouldn't be the mother I am.  Ivy wouldn't be exactly the wonderful woman she is.  Holding diabetes has touched many. My love ones and I have suffered with it, but I have no regrets.
    I was 26yrs/o, my skin hung from my bones, my belly was swollen, and my kidney's hurt badly so, I decided to go to the ER. I had fought taking insulin b/c I believed it would be the death of me. I lived but, I was forever changed, as it dripped into my veins, a part of me died so that another could live. I have never given up believing that I am meant to be free, eventually, but I am also meant to have diabetes for now.
     RAVF have given me great hope that I still have a chance to completely come off of insulin. My body is dependant on insulin. I have only been eating from noon to 5pm and I am doing better since I've adjusted my insulin so that I take more around eating time and taper it off at night, taking the very least in the morning when I am active. To give an example of how dependent my body is. I went for a 2 hour walk today through the snow, up and down hills at a moderate pace. My BS just before walking was 163.  I took 0.3 units so, that I would have some insulin on board. Insulin pumps let you take a tenth of what is possible with syringes. When I returned from the walk my BS was 244. I think it is because my body tried to metabolise fat for energy, but I didn't have insulin in my body to get it into my cells, so it sat in my blood and waited for me to put my pump back on.  So, when you say to avoid foods that make my sugar go up. I think you don't understand how complicated it is. I ate nothing for 20hrs and had exercise and still had a BS of 244. I have had that happen when I eat 3 meals per day too. Honey was obvious, but I'm glad I tried. I feel good about the whole experience. What you said helped me. You validated my experience that honey isn't good for me, even though AV suggested it in a book that made lots of sense. You helped me to be comfortable with my experience which diverted from AV. I liked the way you did it to. Kind isn't always pretty. Please continue to share everything you want to. Sometimes even things that seem unrelated are the perfect thing.
     I do understand the negative consequence of not taking care of BS. Every work day I see, blindness, amputations, and dialysis diabetic patients. I do want to live and heal. I am a self centered person. It keeps me alive. I'm 40, I've been sick for 15 years and I could out run my husband and daughter. I'm so proud of that. I want them to do well, but have worked for every bit of strength and stamina I have.
    I am open minded and experimental. I have made a ton of mistakes, but I try to stay aware and to learn. I try to not go crazy or get depressed, when disease surrounds me and thrives within me. I have completely come off of insulin though fasting and I want to give the fast 5 plan a good go. So, far its not bad. I'm not burning many ketones, no unbearable cravings, and stable BS.
     I stopped eating fruit in the past and I spilled high levels of ketones, so I'm not ready to stop them again. I need a plan and maybe a back up plan. The one I'm working on now is to get my body used to fasting for 19 hrs/day, and decrease portion sizes a little, then eat some starchy carbs like carrots, cabage, khorabi, celery root and see how my body responds to them. Then, wean down to 1/2 a piece of fruit/day -Then every other day then just a few bites when I feel "low, or have a craving". If I get that far with stability. Then, I want to expand fasting not sure how. I want advice on that. But, I'm thinking it will be spring by then.
     
 
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Aaaaaa on January 22, 2012, 12:15:13 pm
I am interested in trying colostrum as well, Inger!  I can use all the gut-healing foods I can get.  I'll have to ask the farm where I get my milk if they ever have it for sale.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Wattlebird on January 22, 2012, 01:08:25 pm
Adora,
if you feel helpless, or unsure how to tackle your situation, or it seems so multi-faceted that one feels it is too big to make substanial change, a vision quest can solidify intent and initiate the major change in perception that is required to change the overall dynamic.
You mentioned previously your love of the woods, so a fairly manageable quest may be to stay out in the woods away from other human contact, man-made structures, etc, by yourself for a 24 hour period. (Obviously this is dependent on a location where physical safety is assured).
The moods of the wild - the progression of day into night, the sounds, the climatic variations, the animals and birds etc - are wonderful catalysts that both liberate fears and, carefully orchestrated and directed, facilitate trance states.
Within these trance/dream experiences come visions and intuitions that coalesce around the central idea, and the perception one has about an issue/situation gains clarity.
What seemed too big, or one felt too helpless to do much about, no longer does.
A marked change in perception is a change in the overall dynamic.
The way ahead becomes clear.
Please accept this comment with the spirit of sharing and feel free to make of it what you will.
Kind wishes, J


Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: raw on January 22, 2012, 01:26:26 pm
To Dorothy, awesome advice... thanks a lot
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Dorothy on January 23, 2012, 02:36:51 am
Dearest Adora - I didn't see this long post before getting your pm and responding. In this context the entire meaning of your message to me changes.

You sure have been through quite a journey! What you said about being at peace and deciding to live made me feel hopeful. Thank you so very much for sharing in more detail your journey, your process, your history. I told my husband that when I read that there was a woman on the board that had such high blood sugar levels I felt a little like someone who saw someone stepping out into the street with a bus coming that they couldn't see from their perspective and like it was an autonomic reaction to reach out my hand and try to grab and pull.

It's reassuring that you know about the repercussions of the high levels already without my warnings. In a way I felt like I was being cautious in trying not to be too scary or negative if you didn't know. Since you've been around the repercussions - I now know that you know exactly what I mean. Some diabetics simply don't have a clue. I've helped a few. Their doctors just didn't explain it to them.......... at all. People need to have choice. If you know, if you are not in denial, then you are using your free will with which to make your decisions in full knowledge. That's pivotal. My Mom was a nurse and I have realized that I didn't know and she did - but she was in denial. From what you wrote here - it's obvious that this is not the case with you. You are working things through to the best of your ability within the context of what you know and what you have experienced with the clear goal in mind of wanting to live and that you already do have the goal of getting your blood sugars stable and then of wanting to come eventually off of the meds. I feel in my heart that you can do it!

I can fully appreciate what you are saying about a multi-faceted approach to healing. All disease has corresponding blockages on all levels of the person. The key is in finding which avenue will have the best access to change. Sometimes, clearing emotion, sometimes spiritual change, sometimes phsyical and sometimes all have to be addressed. I am slowly finding that if one can figure out diet properly along with appropriate physical movements, it might be slower going, but eventually the mind, emotions and spirit usually just have to catch up and clear what they are going to clear. The realizations will have to come, the changes in other energies will have to correspond. Change one aspect and the others have to come along.

Your plan to scale back your intake of fruit is very sound I would think. What was your experience when you had ketones in your urine though? As a type 1 diabetic I can't help but to wonder if a ketogenic diet wouldn't be the ideal for you..... but I don't know quite enough about that to advise anything on it. I do know that for many diabetics just using vegetables for their carbs seems to do the trick to give them enough to get stable blood sugars on without going into using primarily protein/fat for sugar. I do understand that using insulin is a high-wire act and outrageously complicated. Your body is a complex machine that very delicately monitors and controls sugar systems and electrolytes moment to moment. Doing it with an outside source of insulin - well - it's a miracle that anyone can do it at all and survive.

Here's the thing though...... it really does come down to a very slow and stable input of slow-burning material in the long run! It's not going to be necessarily easy to get to it ... but that is the big goal. If you eat anything that makes for a fast burn you have no idea when or how that stuff is going to go on fire and burn you up making your sugars go bonkers. It's so unpredictable - too excitable - too unpredictable. You want to get to the point where your body doesn't have to break down itself or it's stores, where it has things available all the time, but things are slow for it to break down and use. Think of it like a slow drip machine. If you are fasting - well then your body gets stable because it's constantly breaking down. But this is not a long-term solution. In a way, you are going into full forced ketogenisis when you fast. It only makes sense to me to figure out a way to get to that state using food and a constant supply of food - not going from fasting to food and then when you put in the food having to use insulin. Is this making sense? Stability is the goal. You can't gain long-term stability using fasting because ... well.... you need to eat eventually. Somehow, someway you need that slow burn while eating.

I know macrobiotics and whole grains is "supposed" to be good and can work for some when not so far out of whack - but - it's still LOTS of carbs and not enough good solid fats - slow-burning fats - for those whose adrenals and pancreas are very worn out. It's still too fast without enough nutrients and with not enough raw available nutrients for the re-building. You already are right on track with raw paleo foods.

Fasting, ketogenics and the idea of constant super slow burn are such powerful ideas to meditate on. None of these things are going to give you instant results. All of the things that can work long-term are going to happen over time - a move towards stability that your body will have to get used to.

Adora - let me say that I am blown away by the post you put up here and I thank you for it. Thank you for working so hard.

Being free of diabetes and all the diseases that came from it now for the first time in my adult life is a feeling of incredible space and potentiality. I know it wasn't mine directly so I can barely conceive of that feeling of freedom being larger - but it would have to be for you as a person with the disease. I wish for you that freedom and space. 

Well - this is such a long post - and now my husband and I have to go and get food. Now though - we go out and eat the same healthy foods together! What a joy. Such a gift.

Thank you Adora and thank you rawpaleoforum - all of you.

Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Adora on January 23, 2012, 04:51:33 am
Dorthy   - all that you said feels so good, especially that you believe in me. I am trying harder than ever. I feel like I am on the right track and I have a great support group here. I write long posts, mostly for me to say out loud what's in my heart, but to receive the support is giving me strength and determination. I am more motivated than ever before. I feel like the raw materials -- ha,ha are all here and I just have to listen to my body's response and let it pull me out of the pit of disease.
     I think your right about having just one of the elements securely in place the the rest will follow. They all need to be aware, listening, and willing. I think if I had to pick one aspect of self to be the guide of healing I would pick body. Body experiences, and experience is the unique gift of life on earth. Next, emotion because it let's us feel in our gut what is good and bad in the moment, then heart to find the most loving balance points. Spirit to inspire hope, and mind to figure out the details.
     The bad experience I had with going low carb was on SAD diet, the first time, then with cooked paleo, for just a short time, probably too strenuous an exercise regime, a caffeine addiction, and not enough sleep. I have changed all of those things. I had very strong ketosis symptoms, excessive thirst, lethergy, kusimals respirations, and what is describe as fruity breath (actually it is more like a trash bucket and amonia). I am on day 5 of the fast five program. I have decreased my protein intake to 8oz max/day, I eat all raw animal fat I want, and salad - which feels so good that I'm keeping it going. Today, I decided to continue on with 1-2 servings of home made raw cheese/day and to take not more than 1/2 serving of fruit/day. I am eating granny smith apples, grapefruit , and berries which aren't addictive for me, but help to decrease the ketosis symptoms. I am also getting as much fresh air, water, and sleep as possible. I'm going to get ketone strips so if I spill to many ketones I can eat a bit more fruit, with more insulin, which gets me out of ketosis, hopefully I wont get there, but I know better than to stay there. I can tell I'm in ketosis now but it is very mild.
     I've read on various sites that it takes about 4weeks for body to adjust to fat vs carbs and fasting, or meal skipping. So, I'm hoping to get that far without going from mild ketosis to ketoacidosis. There was a little study on type 1's going low carb and they had good results with a handfull of  people taking 60-90g/day. so that is what I'm using as a guide. I'm really excited to see what Feb. 22 brings.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Dorothy on January 23, 2012, 02:17:42 pm
I'm not familiar with the fast five program. Is there a link you can send to me to for more info on that please? I'd like to respond more after reading up a little on what you are doing.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Adora on January 26, 2012, 08:27:00 am
Thank you for considering going through all that. The web site is www.fast-5.com (http://www.fast-5.com). There is a free ebook. It's about 50 pages. I'm still not feeling ketoacidotic - that's good.
     I have a new problem. I think my insulin needle must have been dirty. I have an area of cellulitus, on my upper thigh. It is right where my insulin pump was. It is swollen and red and there is a small amt of pus that I have been able to expell so i know its infected. It seems to be getting smaller. I am using hot compresses and rubbing coconut oil on it. It seems to be getting better, but it has a way to go.  It was hurting at work and I didn't have another needle set up for my pump so I just kept moving it over and taping it down to my skin.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Dorothy on January 28, 2012, 06:02:50 am
Hey Adora,

I can't download onto this computer so have to wait until I can access another. I won't forget though.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: raw-al on January 29, 2012, 03:26:02 am
I've read celery is good for diabetes too.  Also, the white rind of watermelon is good as well.
Ayurveda calls Celery a blood cleanser.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Dorothy on February 02, 2012, 04:48:30 am
Licorice root and cinnamon bark are blood sugar stabilizers that work beautifully.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Iguana on February 02, 2012, 05:34:19 am
In my experience:
- there are times when the hygiene theory is spot on
- there are times when germ theory is spot on
Both above theories are seriously flawed. Applying  Occam's razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor), they should be replaced by GCB’s theory since it explains well and quite simply all the observed facts that previous theories could not explain without complicated or extravagant  assumptions:
Quote
THEORETICAL BASIS (http://www.reocities.com/HotSprings/7627/ggtheobasi.html)
25. Experience seems to show that most illnesses considered as infectious satisfy the preceding criteria, provided that alimentation strictly respects the norms defined by Anopsotherapy. One must therefore call into question the classical conception of the virus and the bacterium, which may no longer be considered as necessarily pathogenic agents. A virus in fact introduces into the cell a fragment of DNA or RNA which, by microscopic observation, seems to intervene as a sort of complementary program which augments the genetic code and which permits the elimination of various classes of toxins not originally foreseen ; to speak more precisely, non-original molecules. The bacterium, likewise, seems to be used by the organism (which perfectly regulates its multiplication under Anopsotherapeutic conditions) so as to provide, through a "third party", enzymes that can decompose non-original molecules or their undesirable by-products beyond the capabilities of its own enzymes (ones adapted, a priori, to original molecules).

26. Therefore, instead of battling against microbes by the use of antibiotics, vaccines, asepsis, etc..., the role of medicine will be rather to see that the organism succeeds in regulating in a satisfactory way the detoxination processes with which they are associated - perhaps even to seek means of instigating such processes so as to reestablish th integrity of the terrain and prevent true illness. In the present state of affairs, the apparent therapeutic successes obtained in infectious illnesses may be the cause of the rising mortality due to cancer and cardiovascular diseases, through an endemic increase in the incidence of toxemia.

27. There are good reasons to reconsider especially the medical interpretation of three phenomena whose meaning cannot be seen apart from our postulate that foreign substances are present in the organism :
Catarrhs of the mucus membranes which permit the discharge of matter in the form of abnormally thick mucus ; the normal channels of secretion serving, under exceptional conditions, for excretion of undesirable substances.
Eruptions of all sorts, acting as safety valves to permit the passage of toxins that cannot be eliminated through other channels.
Inflammation, one of whose effects is to allow the white corpuscules to pass through the dilated capillary walls and perform their work of cleaning in the tissues.These processes must be respected, to the extent that they do not exceed the limit of the "tolerable", a criterion that seems always to be observed under Anopsotherapeutic conditions.

Sorry, I didn’t read all the previous posts, but I it looks like nobody ever mentioned GCB’s theory (please correct me if I’m wrong) and that’s a shame for a raw paleo forum…

Cheers
Francois
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Dorothy on February 02, 2012, 07:57:11 am
Iguana, I haven't seen that by GCB but I have read the concepts in other contexts -- that of most of what we consider to be infections disease as the body's own way of purging oneself. Thanks much for posting it.

Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Aaaaaa on February 02, 2012, 11:23:37 am
Thank you Iguana!!!
That does pretty much sum up how I've been coming to see "infectious" things like bacteria, viruses etc.  And that bit about how the more "successful" we become at "treating" infectious disease with antibiotics etc, the more degenerative diseases show up...HOW interesting!!!  And it makes a lot of sense. 
How he describes viruses is pretty much how they seem to be described in the book I'm reading right now, "Fear of the Invisible."  And I think also pretty close to how Aajonus describes them.
Its crazy how much sense this makes, but if I told one of my (medical) co-workers or something about it they would be like "are you nuts?!" haha!
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: raw-al on February 03, 2012, 08:27:39 am
, they should be replaced by GCB’s theory since it explains well and quite simply all the observed facts that previous theories could not explain without complicated or extravagant  assumptions:

Cheers
Francois


What is GCB's theory?
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: goodsamaritan on February 03, 2012, 09:03:54 am
Both above theories are seriously flawed. Applying  Occam's razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor), they should be replaced by GCB’s theory since it explains well and quite simply all the observed facts that previous theories could not explain without complicated or extravagant  assumptions:
Sorry, I didn’t read all the previous posts, but I it looks like nobody ever mentioned GCB’s theory (please correct me if I’m wrong) and that’s a shame for a raw paleo forum…

Cheers
Francois


Maybe GCB hasn't had enough experience with electro medicine first hand.  But I do.

Example #1

Beam Ray Machine hits the frequency of Pseudomonas and our 2 maids suffering almost deathly diarrhea (for 3 days) both get well at the same time in 30 minutes.  This is killing the pathogen on the spot.

Example #2

My daughter has been having nape (back of her neck) pain for 3 days.  We've tried chiropractors and other massage experts.  Don croft zapper stops her pain and crying in a 1 hour treatment: 7 mins on, 20 mins off, 7 mins on, 20 mins off, 7 mins on.  This is killing the pathogen on the spot.

In these 2 shining examples, there was a pathogen, a germ or a parasite that was causing the problem.  And killing them cured these people instantly.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Dorothy on February 03, 2012, 09:11:56 am
Let me guess GS - you were present at these successes? You have a strong will.

Double-blind testing would be much more convincing for me.

But anyway - how does what GCB wrote contradict those results?
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: goodsamaritan on February 03, 2012, 09:28:34 am
Let me guess GS - you were present at these successes? You have a strong will.

Double-blind testing would be much more convincing for me.

But anyway - how does what GCB wrote contradict those results?

Yes, I was actually there all the way in treating those cases.  I even paid for all of that and other treatments. 

You should've seen the faces of all the people back home when we came home after a few hours with 2 fully cured maids.

Example #3

We recently had a difficult dengue fever outbreak with a maid and my daughter.  Then my 8 year old boy said he didn't feel well.  I put him on pyroenergen for 30 minutes.  After that 30 minutes he sprang back to life, stopped feeling cold, felt too warm... and said he's all well and started running about.

Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Dorothy on February 03, 2012, 09:36:36 am
GS - you must see that these are all women and children under your control - no? The mind (especially the subconscious mind) is very powerful. They all really wanted to make sure you that you felt right. You are a dominant kind of person and when your livelihood and life depends on making a dominant and willful person happy - it's just not a good test.

Anyway - still - why does those people feeling better contradict what GCB said?
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: goodsamaritan on February 03, 2012, 09:44:13 am
GS - you must see that these are all women and children under your control - no? The mind (especially the subconscious mind) is very powerful. They all really wanted to make sure you that you felt right. You are a dominant kind of person and when your livelihood and life depends on making a dominant and willful person happy - it's just not a good test.

Anyway - still - why does those people feeling better contradict what GCB said?

No Dorothy.  I do not have such a controlling mind.  Not one bit.

The beam ray operator, zapper operator, electrical energy healer Romy Macapagal have no special powers.

Pathogens are killed on a regular basis.

And people get well on a regular basis as long as their problem is pathogen based.

You can even stick up the don croft zapper under your arm to get rid of the bacteria that cause bad smell.

There is too much evidence going for pathogens being killed directly and making people well.

Case #1:

The pseudomonas bacteria was not the first frequency we tried killing.  We first tried other bacteria and other protozoans on day 1 of the beam ray.  And that didn't do a thing for our 2 maids.

Immediately when the beam ray was switched to pseudomonas on day 2.  The 2 maids reacted swiftly and got well instantly.  30 minutes was instant enough. 

2 people at the same time was instant enough.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Dorothy on February 03, 2012, 10:17:56 am
I have seen similar results just using the mind. You would be surprised. Do you know how many people said that Hulda Clarke's zappers worked even though she herself died of cancer - the very disease she claimed would be cured with her zapper! If the disease is able to be cured by the mind, often it will be by such devices. If it can't be cured by the mind, then nothing happens. I've seen enough that I need a double blind study when it comes those devices. You can even make one up a double-blind for yourself if you like. Nobody that sells those devices ever does even the simplest of double blind studies that I've encountered. I always hope the devices will work but never see them actually work. I hope your particular one does. It wouldn't cost very much to get a scientist to help you do a very small double-blind experiment I would imagine as it would be pretty straight forward. Please forgive my skepticism - it's nothing personal at all.

But whether it works or not I will now ask you for the third time - what does that have to do with what GCB wrote?
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: cherimoya_kid on February 03, 2012, 11:39:33 am
Until you can prove results on animals, I'm not sure that you've really got proof.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Dorothy on February 03, 2012, 12:17:59 pm
Until you can prove results on animals, I'm not sure that you've really got proof.

That would totally by-step the placebo affect for sure.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Wattlebird on February 03, 2012, 01:49:03 pm
Hi Dorothy
for what its worth, if a healing modality, whatever it may be, works for the patient, whether it is placebo or not, is not so important, no?
One could say that for many, an appointment with a whitecoat wearing a stethoscope in itself has placebo or healing qualities.
The cancer doctor Gershom Zajicek writes extensively on this subject http://www.what-is-cancer.com/papers/placeborespectable.html (http://www.what-is-cancer.com/papers/placeborespectable.html) (there is in fact much to read on his website relating to cancer and healing)
In these scientific days Shamanism is often scoffed at, yet  if the patient has belief in the therapy (or shaministic ritual) and has belief in the person doing the healing, and feel 'better' however one defines that, after the session, so be it.
Sorry, I have gone off on a tangent from germ theory, but if memory serves me right the GCB explanation seems quite reasonable.
Kindest wishes, J
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: goodsamaritan on February 03, 2012, 02:58:21 pm
Zappers and Beam Ray Machines are routinely used on animals (pets).
So they completely bypass the placebo effect.

For livestock, herbal and drugs make more economic sense.

I live with a sister in law who writes on masking tape and sticks the masking tape on the sick while saying her prayers and blowing on the sick.  She takes care of the placebo stuff.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Iguana on February 03, 2012, 04:09:26 pm
What is GCB's theory?
I provided the link and an excerpt of it in my above post:

THEORETICAL BASIS (http://www.reocities.com/HotSprings/7627/ggtheobasi.html)
See especially numbers 25 to 27.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Iguana on February 03, 2012, 04:13:38 pm
In these scientific days Shamanism is often scoffed at, yet  if the patient has belief in the therapy (or shaministic ritual) and has belief in the person doing the healing, and feel 'better' however one defines that, after the session, so be it.
Yes, I think so too.  ;)
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Dorothy on February 03, 2012, 11:07:21 pm
Hi Dorothy
for what its worth, if a healing modality, whatever it may be, works for the patient, whether it is placebo or not, is not so important, no?
One could say that for many, an appointment with a whitecoat wearing a stethoscope in itself has placebo or healing qualities.
The cancer doctor Gershom Zajicek writes extensively on this subject http://www.what-is-cancer.com/papers/placeborespectable.html (http://www.what-is-cancer.com/papers/placeborespectable.html) (there is in fact much to read on his website relating to cancer and healing)
In these scientific days Shamanism is often scoffed at, yet  if the patient has belief in the therapy (or shaministic ritual) and has belief in the person doing the healing, and feel 'better' however one defines that, after the session, so be it.
Sorry, I have gone off on a tangent from germ theory, but if memory serves me right the GCB explanation seems quite reasonable.
Kindest wishes, J


Hi Wattlebird! A shaman doesn't usually charge $3,000 or more for a computer program to heal people with. ;)  I'm totally into using the mind to heal and shamanism - but if someone tries to replicate GS's results without the presence of the same people and relationships they might not get the same effect and then they might use up all their money to buy good foods and herbs that might have more of an effect.

GS Pets also have deep relationships with owners. My dog will sit and do tricks when I ask her to with my mind.

Double blind, double blind, double blind.

And I have asked you THREE TIMES the same question GS and you refuse to answer. You are talking about this beam ray stuff like it has some pertinence to GCBs theory. For the FOURTH TIME NOW --------- WHY????

Whether or not your beam ray works is a distraction to the conversation. If shamanism works on getting rid of infectious disease - all well and good. I've used energy healing to get rid of diseases. Lots of things work for healing. But we're talking about germ theory.

I feel like you questioned the validity of what GCB said but will not give your reason for it. What GCB wrote I think is spot on. If you don't - please explain WHY?





Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: goodsamaritan on February 03, 2012, 11:29:35 pm
And I have asked you THREE TIMES the same question GS and you refuse to answer. You are talking about this beam ray stuff like it has some pertinence to GCBs theory. For the FOURTH TIME NOW --------- WHY????

I cannot understand your question.  And this is why I cannot give you an answer.  There must be a misunderstanding in our communication with one another.

All I am saying is there are times when:

Beachamp - the terrain point of view is what is the case

And there are times when

Pasteur - the germ point of view is the case.

I have no opinion on GCB's POV so I'm not touching that.  I have just read what Iguana posted.

I will keep on relaying observation after observation, and you commission your double blind studies to do so and prove whatever you wish to prove.

So you think pets are not a good case?

Oh, what about fermenting something?

So the beam ray operators say they used to ferment some stuff.
And their fermentation wasn't going as planned.
So they observed the beam ray was hitting their fermentation stuff.
So they fermented in a far away room.

Is that a placebo thing?  The fermented stuff is placebo too?

Beam Ray works. Zappers work.  Pyroenergen works.  Use them wisely.

When I do my healing with friends and family, I make it a point and do my thing that I absolutely do not want any placebo mumbo jumbo in what I do.  I'm a hard wired skeptic and atheist and healer, I absolutely do not like it when people have this "belief" in healing.  And I make hard questions to shake off that which I see as placebo crap.  Or Filipinos just being nice and say "yes" even if they aren't really any better.

The healing that I do is whether you like me or not, whether you believe in me or not, whether you believe in anything or not.  A true cure is that it just works.

Strong will is crap.  I heard that "strong will" comment from a friend who saw me on TV about raw meat healing people.  And a focus group said it was just my "strong will" that made me well. 

People can repeat my teachings in curemanual.com without my "strong will".

Beachamp is correct in many of the cases I've helped too... is this also something that needs double blind studies?  I'm not holding my breath waiting for those "studies".

Terrain is evident in a lot of people with constipation of their intestines.

- liver cancer cases
- breast cysts and circulation with those infernal bras
- pollution cases with mercury in teeth

Etc.

Are you going to commission a raw paleo diet double blind studies with how many practitioners?

My point is, be happy to accept each and every contribution of ideas.  And be ready to use any and all of them when it comes to healing.  No need to be polarized about any of them.

Keep Beachamp's ideas in mind.
Keep Pasteur's ideas in mind.
Keep GCB's ideas in mind.

Use them all to heal everyone.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Dorothy on February 04, 2012, 12:20:14 am

From earlier - much earlier at this point - in the conversation after Iguana posted GCB's words that contradicted your previous statement that both ideas about germs were correct you posted:

"Maybe GCB hasn't had enough experience with electro medicine first hand.  But I do." And then went on to give examples of your maids and child.

Out of all those maids and children and other people - who in the house didn't get sick? The guy eating the paleo diet - you!

This is a forum about diet. If you are going to say that people should go out and buy really expensive technologies at least talk to the point about why you think that they work in regard to what GCB stated - because the person here who started this thread asked this question because they have a serious disease as do a lot of the people that come here. A lot of those technologies are still a part of the medical modal of disease treatment. Zap the bug - just like take a pill to zap the bug.

I'm more interested in how not to get the sickness in the first place and how to heal the sickness in a way that make the overall system stronger - not just relieve a symptom.

If you have lots of money and maids - well - then maybe you can try anything and everything - but a lot of people in this country live paycheck to paycheck. I'd hate to see someone spend their savings on a machine instead of make their terrain strong instead. It might not be as instant - but in the long run - I believe it is the better choice ... or at least the foundation.

People are always looking for a fast fix. Raw paleo and instincto to me is the long-term solution.

Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: goodsamaritan on February 04, 2012, 12:37:24 am
Zappers are cheap.

I don't have enough money to buy a beam ray machine.
So I go to a father and daughter team that  charges P 2,000 a session (divide by 43 to the USD).

Raw paleo and instincto are long term solutions, and this is why we are here.

But illnesses are not all curable by diet alone.  Humans are tool users, we use whatever tools are at our disposal.

Our 20 yr old maid just survived more than 2 weeks of dengue fever using only anthroposophic medicine, fasting, raw diet, diluted orange juice, kamote tops leaves, and tawa tawa tea.  It was horribly debilitating for her.  For 2 days she had black stools (internal bleeding), and she was red all over... blood vessels bursting.

My 7 year old daughter got dengue fever just as our maid was getting well.  We saw how fierce that dengue fever strain was.  Lots of children die of dengue fever here.  So we sought additional armaments than what our maid above used.  We called the beam ray guy and he had a protocol to use 3 beam rays at the same time while zapping with a special zapper built just for dengue fever.

Dengue fever is such an emergency case, the beam ray guy cancelled all his other clients to just attend to our girl.  I paid 4,000 pesos for the beam ray and my wife paid 2,500 pesos to bring home the dengue fever zapper. 

Our 7 year old girl showed immense progress in 6 hours of treatment with beam ray and zapper combined.  That kind of therapy, our maid did not have the luxury of getting.  Thus our little girl's dengue fever scare with the same strong strain as our maid's, suffering only lasted 1 week.

We shelled out an additional P 6,500 for some 8 hours of beam ray treatment... around $ 150 us dollars.  Which to us as parents was money well spent... to be assured in that same day, after only 6 hours, you see your child get up, smile, and play... assured she is not going to die.

Non raw paleo dieters deserve to be healed too. ( she was on raw paleo during her healing time )
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: goodsamaritan on February 04, 2012, 12:52:57 am
I'll give you a case where Beam Ray did not work... for my 10 year old boy initially thought of as just Candida / Yeast infection.

I have a thread somewhere here where by 10 year old boy's body was being wrecked by eczema and when we went to the beam ray guy, for 4 straight days we were doing beam ray for candida / yeast infection.  True, it is positive, it was candida / yeast... he would jump and scratch when you turn on the beam ray machine.

In this case of my 10 year old boy, Aajonus Vonderplanitz' description of candida / yeast infection turned out to be the right one.  A terrain thing.  But this terrain, was structural.  His large intestines were inundated with diverticulitis and these pockets were full of impacted stools.  And his large intestines degenerated so much, he couldn't poop without assistance, and his small intestines now had very bad leaky gut.

So no amount of beam ray will help our boy in this case.  Because the candida here were just garbage men taking out the trash of those injured internal organs.

The injured terrain was the key here.

Of course my boy is on raw paleo diet with me now, and he will remain so for as long as I can teach him and be with him as the structural integrity of his intestines depend on raw paleo diet.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Dorothy on February 04, 2012, 04:38:14 am
Zappers don't work - you said so yourself - but what is cheap to you might not be cheap to another person. I can't stand it when people that have money assume that something is going to be cheap to someone else. That $50 for a zapper might be to someone else the difference between being able to eat well that week or not.

I am starting to feel like you are trying to convince us about a technology rather than discuss germ theory. I know a great deal of people for whom rife technology did nothing.  I don't know if your beam thing is the same or not - but someone here said that it was. I know of many more examples where that didn't work than where it did.

Terrain is more than just pockets. Are you saying that the maid did not have a terrain problem that allowed for her to get sick in the first place?



Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Dorothy on February 04, 2012, 04:57:25 am
What interests me so much in what Iguana quoted from GCB is the idea that viruses and bacteria are allowed by the host into the system to help digest foreign substances that the body cannot break down and eliminate on its own. In this way one is stepping out of the medical model where there is some invader needing to be zapped, buzzed, killed and stepping into hopefully the recognition that we are not fighting an enemy. Our own bodies took on something to help clean up. The most direct and prudent thing to do imho is to make it so we no longer need that extra help from the bugs.

So much energy, technology and money is spent on that same old medical model and to me, all it does is zap one bug just to leave the same basic problem in place. The bug is a symptom - not the cause. That makes so much sense to me. It's my experience and without understanding that base I believe that we are doing people an injustice just taking away symptoms without helping them to really clean up shop. You might cure their bacterial infection just to have them invite a new yeast later.
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Rawr on April 16, 2012, 04:14:34 am
Non raw paleo dieters deserve to be healed too.

That could be debated if we wanted to "go there"... we could quite easily justify the opposite. A la:

"If one is unwilling to let go of disease-causing crap in his life, he might "deserve" to come down with illness and suffer."

Unfortunately, it's more complicated than that (as most things in our society...) - because it's also easy and rational to argue that:

"If one has been terrorized from birth by the society to be scared of eating healthy foods, it's the responsibility of the society to deal with the consequences."

Wish life was simpler, hehe. ;D



Anyway,

something more "practical"...

dengue fever

I searched a bit for "dengue fever" + some of my favorite "controversial" keywords - and almost immediately, I've found something quite "interesting" in the 2nd article that I've read:

Quote
Dengue Fever and BP Spill Complications

The timing of this outbreak of dengue fever presents two additional problems; the symptoms of dengue fever are very similar to that of exposures to chemicals such as those contained in crude oil and the dispersants currently being used in the contaminated areas of the Gulf of Mexico, potentially making it difficult to diagnose the source of a sufferer's symptoms.

---
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=8&contentid=7077&page=2 (http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=8&contentid=7077&page=2)
 


- In Other Words...

(well, in my words :D)

Knowing how medical "science" operates and co-operates with other industries, it seems to me very plausible that the real source of what's called "dengue fever" and blamed on mosquitoes is - as in so many other "disease" cases - industrial pollution (toxicity) or some combination of them.  :)

I won't "investigate" this much further (as I couldn't even afford to investigate such things directly and scientifically), but I'll just "say" this...:

I would be more surprised if this wasn't just another case of industrial-pollution disease blamed on something in the nature, than if it was. ;D


More "stuff"

http://www.google.com/search?q=dengue+fever+oil+spill&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=iceweasel-a (http://www.google.com/search?q=dengue+fever+oil+spill&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=iceweasel-a)

->"BP Oil Spill Toxins may be Activator for Dengue Fever"
http://www.soundhealthinc.com/pdf/dengue_fever.pdf (http://www.soundhealthinc.com/pdf/dengue_fever.pdf)

-> "Corexit Tied To 'Dengue Fever' In Florida?, page 1"
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread596564/pg1 (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread596564/pg1)

-> "Dengue Fever Outbreak or Corexit Chemical Dispersant Poisoning?"
Dengue Fever Outbreak or Corexit Chemical Dispersant Poisoning Reported By Fox News (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTujs47zYWA#ws)

and

-> "Poisoning the Gulf's residents"
http://socialistworker.org/2010/11/19/poisoning-gulf-residents (http://socialistworker.org/2010/11/19/poisoning-gulf-residents)
Title: Re: Germ theory information
Post by: Alive on May 12, 2012, 12:00:08 pm
I read a book about the last camel train in the Australian outback - the Aborigines that hitched rides all carried a blanket in which they kept their kangaroo meat leftovers to eat later - they never washed these blankets

 =>  germ theory 0 / healthy body theory 1