Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum

Other Raw-Animal-Food Diets (eg:- Primal Diet/Raw Version of Weston-Price Diet etc.) => Primal Diet => Topic started by: Fermenter Zym on January 30, 2012, 08:44:26 am

Title: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: Fermenter Zym on January 30, 2012, 08:44:26 am
What do Primal dieters do to maintain a proper balance of magnesium and calcium from eating large amounts of calcium in dairy?
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: cherimoya_kid on January 30, 2012, 12:07:07 pm
I eat scallops.  They are very high in magnesium.  There are also natural mineral supplements that are high in magnesium.
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: Fermenter Zym on January 30, 2012, 12:47:07 pm
Let me know if I'm doing the math wrong, but the nutrition facts seem to say that there are only 55 mg Magnesium per 100 grams of Scallops. If there are 454 grams in a pound, you only get 250 mg of Magnesium from a pound of scallops. That doesn't seem like much magnesium relative to the calcium found in modern raw milk.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/finfish-and-shellfish-products/7741/2 (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/finfish-and-shellfish-products/7741/2)

What are your thoughts on this?
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: aLptHW4k4y on January 30, 2012, 04:59:00 pm
Cashews have a really high magnesium content per calorie, but then they probably have phytic acid too so I'm not sure how much of that is absorbed.
I just take a pill of magnesium glycinate sometimes.
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: cherimoya_kid on February 01, 2012, 11:36:13 am
Let me know if I'm doing the math wrong, but the nutrition facts seem to say that there are only 55 mg Magnesium per 100 grams of Scallops. If there are 454 grams in a pound, you only get 250 mg of Magnesium from a pound of scallops. That doesn't seem like much magnesium relative to the calcium found in modern raw milk.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/finfish-and-shellfish-products/7741/2 (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/finfish-and-shellfish-products/7741/2)

What are your thoughts on this?

You make a good point.  I should actually probably supplement magnesium in some way.
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: raw-al on February 02, 2012, 08:37:27 am
What think ye?

http://magnesiumrichfoods.com/ (http://magnesiumrichfoods.com/)

I suspect the seeds might be difficult to find raw but would be a better than the chemical choice.

Would be interesting to see if this made a difference
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: Dorothy on February 02, 2012, 08:49:29 am
Al - I am drawn to eating a lot of those foods in their raw, soaked and dehydrated forms. I often feel like they have something I need in them. Maybe it's the magnesium? Thanks for the link.


Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: raw-al on February 02, 2012, 09:04:53 am
Al - I am drawn to eating a lot of those foods in their raw, soaked and dehydrated forms. I often feel like they have something I need in them. Maybe it's the magnesium? Thanks for the link.

I agree. I like most of those items. Maybe that's why. I'd heard somewhere that raw pumpkin was also useful for prostate issues.
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: Dorothy on February 02, 2012, 09:19:59 am
I agree. I like most of those items. Maybe that's why. I'd heard somewhere that raw pumpkin was also useful for prostate issues.

I think it's the zinc that helps the prostate. I heard that pumpkins were high in zinc and that zinc helped the prostate so I started soaking and dehydrating pumpkin seeds and making them into a butter for my husband and since he's been eating it he has slowly but surely had to get up in the night to urinate less and less. We ran out and I was behind on making it once and he got worse again. But maybe it's also the magnesium that helps?
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: Fermenter Zym on February 02, 2012, 09:35:59 am
I'm glad this conversation is starting. I emailed several resources concerning the diet of the Masai to ask about their Calcium / Magnesium ratios from a dairy rich diet and am waiting to hear back from them. I'll let you all know if I learn anything.
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: RawZi on February 02, 2012, 10:20:30 am
That doesn't seem like much magnesium relative to the calcium found in modern raw milk.

    For years before I went on AV's raw primal diet I was more constipated than I ever read about from anyone's experience. I was told that was magnesium deficiency, and that magnesium deficiency runs in my family. So before I changed to primal diet I took magnesium supplements hoping it would relieve my constipation, and it did relieve it every time I took it.  Since I went on primal diet I have not been constipated, I have not taken magnesium supplements and I haven't taken anything else for constipation. Has you magnesium deficiency symptoms worsened since you switched diet? I think the primal diet eaten in amounts and combinations and order it is individually tailored, that deficiencies do not occur. In my case the diet doesn't seem to, as if it's more like a miraculous spark of life rather than just adding two and two to equal a bland four.  It could be different for you.  Which juices are you drinking? What does the rest of your food plan look like?
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: Fermenter Zym on February 02, 2012, 10:27:49 am
    For years before I went on AV's raw primal diet I was more constipated than I ever read about from anyone's experience. I was told that was magnesium deficiency, and that magnesium deficiency runs in my family. So before I changed to primal diet I took magnesium supplements hoping it would relieve my constipation, and it did relieve it every time I took it.  Since I went on primal diet I have not been constipated, I have not taken magnesium supplements and I haven't taken anything else for constipation. Has you magnesium deficiency symptoms worsened since you switched diet? I think the primal diet eaten in amounts and combinations and order it is individually tailored, that deficiencies do not occur. In my case the diet doesn't seem to, as if it's more like a miraculous spark of life rather than just adding two and two to equal a bland four.  It could be different for you.  Which juices are you drinking? What does the rest of your food plan look like?

I have been thinking a lot about the juicing aspect of the diet lately. I have never been interested in that factor, but now I'm starting to think I can't digest vegetables well and may benefit from juicing greens. I typically eat tongue, liver, heart, roasts, steaks, coconut oil, and sea salt and have recently introduced raw kefir and raw kefir cream. When eating a lot of raw kefir cream, I don't have any problems with constipation, but otherwise I do.

What do you juice? Do you mix your juices with butter/cream?
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: RawZi on February 02, 2012, 10:34:23 am
What do you juice? Do you mix your juices with butter/cream?

    I juice celery, zucchini, parsley, cilantro and spinach mostly.  I don't mix fat in. I do mix honey in occasionally.
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: Fermenter Zym on February 02, 2012, 11:02:48 am
    I juice celery, zucchini, parsley, cilantro and spinach mostly.  I don't mix fat in. I do mix honey in occasionally.

How many veggies a day do you juice?
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: cherimoya_kid on February 02, 2012, 12:12:04 pm
What think ye?

http://magnesiumrichfoods.com/ (http://magnesiumrichfoods.com/)

I suspect the seeds might be difficult to find raw but would be a better than the chemical choice.

Would be interesting to see if this made a difference

Generally the minerals in nuts/legumes are not very bioavailable.
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: Dorothy on February 02, 2012, 01:06:13 pm
Even when sprouted?
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: Joy2012 on February 02, 2012, 01:42:19 pm
I drink one glass of spinach juice daily. I think that takes of both magnesium and potassium.

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=43 (http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=43)
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: Dorothy on February 02, 2012, 02:05:44 pm
The thing that is difficult is that these things need to be thought of as a balance. Potassium to sodium, magnesium to calcium etc.
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: cherimoya_kid on February 02, 2012, 02:40:51 pm
Even when sprouted?

We're not really nut eaters, seed eaters, sprout eaters, or tiny-young-vegetable eaters.  Come on, you know all those give lots of people digestion problems. If you can't digest it well, you're certainly not absorbing it well.  Animals that are designed for large amounts of those foods have specialized digestive adaptions that we don't.
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: RawZi on February 03, 2012, 01:01:48 am
How many veggies a day do you juice?

    I used to drink a quart a day when I started pd.  I haven't drank even sixteen ounces a day lately, no real reason for less.
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: Dorothy on February 03, 2012, 08:37:24 am
We're not really nut eaters, seed eaters, sprout eaters, or tiny-young-vegetable eaters.  Come on, you know all those give lots of people digestion problems. If you can't digest it well, you're certainly not absorbing it well.  Animals that are designed for large amounts of those foods have specialized digestive adaptions that we don't.

I digest them well - so maybe I was designed to eat some and others aren't - oh maybe others don't have the same digestive fire or whatever. Maybe I'm not supposed to eat large amounts, but not everything I'm designed to eat has to be in large amounts. But I digest large amounts of baby greens very easily and feel very good from them.
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: Dorothy on February 03, 2012, 08:38:45 am
    I used to drink a quart a day when I started pd.  I haven't drank even sixteen ounces a day lately, no real reason for less.

What kind of juicer do you have Zi?
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: RogueFarmer on February 09, 2012, 04:25:59 am
is there any empirical evidence that people who eat high dairy diets are indeed mag deficient? While it makes sense that drinking too much milk might cause imbalances, is an imbalance really that much of a problem? How much of a problem is it? I bet actually more so for some than others!

If we are consuming some dietary magnesium perhaps to some extent our body will utilize more of the magnesium we consume and less of the calcium. I understand the basic logic of this argument however I wonder about how much of a problem it really is.
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: TylerDurden on February 09, 2012, 04:47:30 am
I know of one RVAFer on another forum who ended up almost hospitalised as a result of getting magnesium-deficiency over a long period.
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: aLptHW4k4y on February 09, 2012, 05:02:57 am
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1542015 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1542015)
Quote
We conclude that increased intakes of calcium and phosphate decrease magnesium absorption by the formation of an insoluble calcium-magnesium-phosphate complex in the intestinal lumen.

Milk is very high in both calcium and phosphorus, so it's good to be cautious.
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: raw-al on February 10, 2012, 01:42:46 am
How would one know that Mg deficiency was an issue?
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: Fermenter Zym on February 10, 2012, 02:32:21 am
For those of you interested in Magnesium Supplementation, these two articles will surely be helpful:
http://www.westonaprice.org/vitamins-and-minerals/magnificent-magnesium (http://www.westonaprice.org/vitamins-and-minerals/magnificent-magnesium)
http://www.cheeseslave.com/how-to-make-magnesium-oil/ (http://www.cheeseslave.com/how-to-make-magnesium-oil/)

Make sure to read the second article to learn about supplementing through your skin with "Magnesium Oil."
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: TylerDurden on February 10, 2012, 03:57:33 am
How would one know that Mg deficiency was an issue?
By looking at the symptoms of magnesium deficiency and checking therefrom.
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: raw-al on February 10, 2012, 05:19:36 am
Touche.
I did, but I saw a list the length of my arm, which probably overlaps every other list of every other deficiency.

It looks like the Pharmaceutical Vademecum.

I was interested in hearing what others had experienced so I could compare notes.
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: Dorothy on February 22, 2012, 05:24:15 am
Holistic physician informed me a long time ago that women need a higher magnesium to calcium ration than men do - so gals - 2:1 might not be enough. If what she told me was true, then women might have a harder time with this whole thing than men.
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: raw-al on February 22, 2012, 08:27:14 am
interesting article
http://naturalallopathic.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=74&Itemid=116 (http://naturalallopathic.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=74&Itemid=116)
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: raw-al on February 26, 2012, 01:38:15 am
I decided to try eating foods which are rich in magnesium and taking a Mg supplement. I did this for a few weeks. Then I started getting these incredible cramps in my feet etc. so into the trash bin for that idea.

After doing some studying of books I am led to the conclusion that supplementation is a bit of a snake oil industry. The symptoms that I saw listed as being indicative of Mg deficiency are also listed as being the results of Mg toxicity. They are also listed in a huge amount of other illnesses. hmmmmmm
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: raw-al on July 17, 2012, 08:10:41 pm
Interesting thing I found

http://www.iherb.com/Nature-s-Way-Boron-Chelate-3-mg-100-Capsules/1854 (http://www.iherb.com/Nature-s-Way-Boron-Chelate-3-mg-100-Capsules/1854)

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/894.html (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/894.html)
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: Dorothy on July 18, 2012, 06:44:15 am
I decided to try eating foods which are rich in magnesium and taking a Mg supplement. I did this for a few weeks. Then I started getting these incredible cramps in my feet etc. so into the trash bin for that idea.

After doing some studying of books I am led to the conclusion that supplementation is a bit of a snake oil industry. The symptoms that I saw listed as being indicative of Mg deficiency are also listed as being the results of Mg toxicity. They are also listed in a huge amount of other illnesses. hmmmmmm

Yes Al - that is the issue - but that doesn't mean it's snake oil - besides - you taught me that snake oil is actually good for you! :D

Magnesium deficiency and overdose have similar symptoms and magnesium is used in so many functions that the symptoms are broad - but do not include everything.

With magnesium usually, if you increase the dosage SLOWLY the first symptom you will get will be diarrhea to let you know that you have hit the threshold and then you back off slightly.

Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: raw-al on July 18, 2012, 09:54:41 pm
After doing some studying of books I am led to the conclusion that supplementation is a bit of a snake oil industry. The symptoms that I saw listed as being indicative of Mg deficiency are also listed as being the results of Mg toxicity. They are also listed in a huge amount of other illnesses. hmmmmmm
As Dorothy reminded me, I wrote this before I read the real story on 'snake oil'. I should have known.

Turns out that there really was/is snake oil and it really is effective, From Nenah Sylver's book "The Rife Handbook" page 56 is the following explanation. This is yet another example of the early allopathic drug companies trashing things they knew nothing about, or essentially trashing the competition. Similar to what they do nowadays with Quackwatch...

"Snake oil originally came from China, where it was used to alleviate inflammation and pain in rheumatoid arthritis, bursitis and similar conditions. Chinese labourers, on section gangs doing the grunt work involved in building the railroad tracks to link North America coast to coast gave it to Europeans with joint pain (bursitis and arthritis). When rubbed on the skin above the pain, snake oil brought relief, so the story goes. Patent medicine men ridiculed the claim. [Hence, today people refer to the remedy that doesn't work as "snake oil".]

In 1989, a nutrition-oriented medical doctor from California decided to find out what snake oil contains. He obtained a sample of the oil from San Francisco's Chinatown, had it analyzed, and found that [out of the 1/4 that is not carrier oil]... 25% of the product is oil from Chinese water snakes, which contains 20% of the important Omega 3 derivative eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) as well as 48% myristic acid, 10% stearic acid (18:0), 14% oleic acid, and 7% linoleic plus arachidonic acids. At 20% EPA, Chinese water snake is the richest known natural source of the parent of the series 3 prostaglandins, which inhibit the production of pro-inflammatory series 2 prostaglandins. Like Essential Fatty Acids and their other derivatives, EPA can be absorbed through our skin. Salmon oil, the next best source of EPA, contains a maximum of only 18% EPA. Other fish oils contain less.

The bottom line is that the traditional snake oil is natural and therapeutic. The snake oil salesman is vindicated." Nehnah Sylver PHD / The Rife Handbook
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: reyyzl on July 31, 2012, 01:25:39 am
note to self:
I know where to get water snakes. I saw many recently.

Raw-Al, does it matter if they are sea snakes or fresh water snakes? I'm thinking sea snakes for the primal diet.
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: raw-al on July 31, 2012, 01:29:51 am
note to self:
I know where to get water snakes. I saw many recently.

Raw-Al, does it matter if they are sea snakes or fresh water snakes? I'm thinking sea snakes for the primal diet.
They said Chinese water snakes.
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: reyyzl on July 31, 2012, 01:44:55 am
They said Chinese water snakes.

Thank you
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: Chris on August 03, 2012, 03:55:09 am
What do Primal dieters do to maintain a proper balance of magnesium and calcium from eating large amounts of calcium in dairy?

Fish and Sea Vegetables (kelp, dulse, ect) for magnesium. Dairy is not Paleo. But, many people still use it in this forum. Personally it's unnecessary, and causes more problems than it's worth. IMO
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: Dorothy on August 03, 2012, 04:12:36 am
I just supplement the soil of my garden with magnesium. That way when I eat the young yam leaves (one of the highest magnesium levels of any vegetable/leaf) they will have taken that good magnesium into the leaves to feed us.

But I still think that my husband has always had a problem absorbing magnesium so he takes a supplement 2 - 3 times a day as well as our vegetables and seaweed and seafood. Maybe if he was raw paleo all along things would be very different. It's a challenge starting good diets when you're already an old fart! ;)

Btw, adding raw dairy to our diets is part of what really messed up our magnesium levels and pushed Brian over the edge.  It took 2 - 3 years for the negative effects of dairy to be noticed by either of us - but were quite apparent when they did show up and for me started to reverse quickly once the dairy was removed.

If you have cancer or an extreme condition dairy can be useful (like with the Budwig protocol) - but otherwise I agree with Chris at this point in my journey that dairy was quite unnecessary and did cause more problems than it was worth.   
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: raw-al on August 03, 2012, 11:05:14 am
If you have cancer or an extreme condition dairy can be useful (like with the Budwig protocol) - but otherwise I agree with Chris at this point in my journey that dairy was quite unnecessary and did cause more problems than it was worth.   
Funny how that goes, for us dairy is a Godsend. We consume lots and do not seem to have issues.

Just goes to show, to each his own.
Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: Dorothy on August 03, 2012, 12:07:43 pm
Yes, there are many that have said that dairy was a godsend for them. At first I really felt the same! I was very disappointed because I just adore the taste and the variety it added to my diet.  :'(

Title: Re: Primal Diet and Magnesium
Post by: TheHealingForests on October 12, 2021, 11:00:51 pm
Magnesium is a huge issue on this diet, drinking lots of milk will deplete it. Good to get magnesium sources.