Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Off Topic => Topic started by: raw-al on May 15, 2012, 08:09:52 am
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I just read an article by Dr. Nenah Sylver PhD about Inclined Bed Therapy IBT developed in the UK by Andrew K Fletcher. The head of the bed is initially elevated between 3 and 4 inches and gradually raised to an optimum 8 inches.
Takes a bit of getting used to but apparently it is quite amazing.
Here's one link I found on it. Nice thing is it's free. ;D
--- image added for clarity --- by GoodSamaritan ---
(http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/off-topic/elevating-the-head-of-your-bed/?action=dlattach;attach=7511)
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I've read about this and it's quite interesting. Don't see the link though.
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Oops..
http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/incline-bed-therapy.html (http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/incline-bed-therapy.html)
http://myndwarp.wordpress.com/2009/03/10/egyptian-beds-inclined-bed-therepy/ (http://myndwarp.wordpress.com/2009/03/10/egyptian-beds-inclined-bed-therepy/)
Just Google "Inclined bed therapy."
I shall try it tonight.
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Sounds interesting. Let us know how it goes, Al.
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They say to do it gradually starting at 3-4 " for a few days and gradually increase to 8". Also it will tend to get worse before it improves. My wife reported no snoring which is nothing short of amazing.
Last night I did 3.5 " . I noticed I felt very warm. Will check in as time goes on.
BTW I sleep on a camping type, probably 2" thick ground pad that is full of air and rubber. This is on top of the floor normally, but I took the plywood out from the regular bed and used it as a base.
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I hardly slept at all last night because I was thinking about how much I want to try this. I hate my bed. I kept mentally designing and re-designing my next bed. It's going to be a slanted board with a thin pad - maybe I'll get fancy and make it a fold-up futon style bed that slants.
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I'm excited too Eve.
Seems like it would easier logistically to do the whole thing at once - but do understand the concept of going slow.
Blow by blow coverage on this please Al .... and anyone else trying it too!
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I sent hubbie the info and he wants to try it! Great cuz now he can figure out how to work the mechanics. :)
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This is what I sleep on nowadays
http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/SleepingBags/SleepingPadsInflating/PRD~5021-438/therm-a-rest-luxury-map-sleeping-pad.jsp (http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/SleepingBags/SleepingPadsInflating/PRD~5021-438/therm-a-rest-luxury-map-sleeping-pad.jsp)
We have a memory foam bed and it is gross after awhile, like sleeping in a hammock, even with plywood under it. It also retains too much heat.
Last night I raised it to 6" and will keep it there for a few days. No problems, apparently snoring has ceased. : )
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Hubbie went out and bought what was necessary to raise my half of our two full sized pushed together thingamajigs that we sleep on yesterday. He put his side up on telephone books only a couple inches and mine he bought two 6 inch higher feet for - but where the feet are located the lift was more than 5 inches more.
He wanted me to share this slanted metal attachment thing he found that he was so excited about in case it's useful to anyone else:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_837-1380-2752_0__?productId=3044342&Ntt=top+plate&pl=1¤tURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dtop%2Bplate&facetInfo (http://www.lowes.com/pd_837-1380-2752_0__?productId=3044342&Ntt=top+plate&pl=1¤tURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dtop%2Bplate&facetInfo)
I absolutely LOVE the new angle. I had dreams like I used to have - hard to describe the difference - but something I've missed. My feet had been hurting quite a bit lately (something new and annoying like the joint thing) but I felt the bed angle changing that and my feet hurt less today but............. I did spend a couple of hours on the bed this morning doing yoga and napping with my head at the BOTTOM - which was almost better than the other way!
I'm in love with this - but tonight Brian gets my side to check out the full tilt and how it affects him if at all - and basically to see if he likes it so that he can tilt his side all the way.
This is my first change that I've decided to do fully out of everything that came up and was suggested on the reversing aging thread - mostly because hubbie was so darn into it and made it happen so fast.
Once again Al I send you hardy thanks!
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It's too bad I couldn't send you the complete article on it from Nenah Sylver's book as it is an interesting read. The whole book is the size of a telephone book for a mid sized city with 750 pages.
It's an incredible collection of history of medicine from ancient times to now with a history of the skullduggery that goes on in the FDA/AMA/Allopathic drug cartel. Every page is more crap that these guys have pulled off.
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oooh - I'd probably love that book!
All I did was tell hubbie that there was this one link you posted on raising the bed and before you know it he was researching the whole thing and off to Lowes. Gotta love that guy! When something is really right he feels it and moves. He has done the research - not me - and is telling me bits and pieces about water and plants and minerals and horizontal water tubes and mad scientist experiments. I would love to turn him on to more info.
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My wife likes to laugh that every time she goes away for a few days to visit her sister she never knows who she is coming home to. Once she came home to someone who was doing sungazing, then once it was a guy who was eating raw meat and rotten meat after 23 years as a vege. The list constantly expands. ;)
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Keeps it interesting right Al? The one thing my husband always said about me is that I was interesting. I'd rather have that than beautiful, sexy etc. because those things can and have changed over time and there's always someone else out there that can be more beautiful or more sexy - but there's no one who's ever going to be more interesting because I'm interesting in my own freaky unique way that no one else can be.
It's been raining so much here there's been no sungazing - that will be nice to get back to. ;) Yeah - sitting outside with my feral cats looking at the sun because some dude I think is cool on the web says he does it...... and hubbie thinks it's cool - gotta love the lovers of the interesting right? But then again - he's the guy that ran out the Lowes so he's pretty interesting too!
Your wife sungazes with you right? Does she eat raw meat? She went along with the raising the bed right? That's a gift.
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We're crazy together.
NIght 1 3" felt warm in the AM, nose stuffed a bit slight breathing noise ocnl soft snore
Night two 4.5" nothing unusual, slight breathing noise no snore
Night three 6" noticed that I was sleeping on a slant. No snore
Night four 6" slant felt like no slant. Snore namore
Tomorrow maybe the big 8 point zero ;D
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I slept on the "weirdo" bed again last night just to make sure nothing intense started happening to me before hubbie with more "issues" started.
I woke up in the middle of the night last night slid halfway down my bed! Again in the morning I was a sliding. I thought it was really funny. I think we should measure the incline we made - because it's really pretty big because we elevated more to the middle of the bed rather than at the ends.
I'm really into dreams and my dreams are what are being the most affected (as far as I can tell). I'm also waking up in the morning with a faster overall vibration. I hope I don't have to explain that one! lol
But the thing I'm loving is the slant when I'm doing my yoga in the morning. I put my head at the foot of the bed and it feels amazing. I can use that extra gravity to relax into my poses and that gentle movement of the blood to my brain is so nice. I know it's not what the idea is supposed to be with doing this - but it's a side benefit that I think is quite wonderful. I spend at least a couple of hours a day doing yoga/acupressure etc. in bed in the morning so it's not like it's just a few extra minutes with my head lower - it's hours.
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I had dreams also.
I've had it on my list for a long time to make an inversion table also. A friend has one and he and his wife love it.
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Maybe with your new bed you won't need an inversion table.
I want to know more about why this thing works because I'm awfully tempted to sleep one night with my head towards the bottom.
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So I talked to my sweet husband about the desire to put my head down - what did he do? He found a forum on incline beds and researched the data that has been gathered by other trying it:
http://www.inclinedbedtherapy.com/index.php?option=com_ninjaboard&view=forums&Itemid=30 (http://www.inclinedbedtherapy.com/index.php?option=com_ninjaboard&view=forums&Itemid=30)
One of the things we've both been noticing is that we are both a lot thirstier and drinking tons of water. In the discussion with the incline bed the urine is tested to be more dense because the kidneys can put more toxins into the urine. Also, the body temperature can go so more water is evaporated from the mouth. When one puts their head down all night the density of the urine toxins goes dramatically down because the kidneys aren't able to work as well.
Apparently the core temperature dips a couple of degrees when sleeping flat and stays stable on an incline bed. I really am thirsty! I better get up and get some water.... yet again.
So, some inversion yoga in the morning but no sleeping all night that way.
I'm going to have some fun looking over that forum and thought I'd share it.
This goes directly to the reverse trendelenberg position page on that forum (sleeping like a bat).
http://www.inclinedbedtherapy.com/index.php?option=com_ninjaboard&view=topic&id=46&Itemid=30 (http://www.inclinedbedtherapy.com/index.php?option=com_ninjaboard&view=topic&id=46&Itemid=30)
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Theeeeersteeeeee!
Hubbie up 2 times last night to pee and drinking, drinking, drinking water - me too!
Yet............. my pee that is always completely clear was a little yellow this morning. That only happens when I eat something I know my body doesn't like with a toxic aspect to it - and I've been eating real good.
This seems to me to be a nice kidney cleanse. What a very easy way to do it! I love things I can do in my sleep. ;)
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how do your feet feel in the morning? or your neck and back?
do you think this is something that may be beneficial in the short run but not the long? ive slept on hills before and never was able to sleep well lol:(
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They say that some people can get short term muscle aches. I don't feel any or enough that I would notice. My neck and shoulders feel the same. I've been feeling more awake in the morning is all. I used to sleep one REM cycle when I was at my raw best and then go in and out of the second REM cycle with lighter sleep, lucid dreams, doing dream work, meditating etc. I've missed that because since I went that period where I didn't sleep for half a year taking care of my mother I've been sleeping almost too solidly sometimes past the 9 hours the two REMs take and then had to do my dream work and meditation after that. Half a year without meditation or dream work in itself was a big change - let alone the sleep. I needed to make up for all of it sure - but I kept hoping things would eventually go back. Since the first night on a slant I've gone back into my old pattern of sleep which feels healthier and happier with my dreams more vivid again and I have more energy first thing in the morning. Last night in the second half of the night I felt like I was slightly vibrating. It was a weird sensation - but not an unpleasant one. I felt like I could have gotten up and started my day after the first REM cycle if I wanted to.
I think how you are going to feel might have to do with how many toxins your body is holding onto and suddenly now able to get out during the night through the kidneys according to what I've read. People can hurt, have headaches, be achy etc. The only differences I've felt are thirst, more yellow pee and what's in the above paragraph. Maybe I don't have as many toxins because of my diet but I haven't felt anything negative at all - only positives as I perceive them. My feet if anything have been feeling better. They have been achy lately and now they are much less so.
Last night I didn't slip down the bed either - which was good. ;) I think my body is already adapting.
Jessica - they say that you are supposed to do it slowly and gradually raising your bed up little by little. My husband is doing that but I went straight up to the top level the first night. I bet if you did it more slowly it wouldn't feel like when you're sleeping outside on a hill. I've done that too and it was really freaky. This doesn't feel so freaky - maybe because it's my own bed in my own room and so familiar all except that one thing?
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I definitely feel warmer and require only a light sheet. I drink a lot more water during the day and weirdly enough I didn't get the usual sunburn on my first hot sunny day with my shirt off, despite going for a very long walk.
I don't wake up in the middle of the night for a whiz, even if I drink water before retiring, but by morning I make up for it.
Snoring has slowed down to a very quiet amount here and there, more like light breathing
I think I am still in the adjusting phase, (6") but I may try higher tonight.
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Sounds like it's working for you Al!
I've noticed that I am having much larger bowel movements in the morning too. The first two days they were stinkier than normal.
I'm generally warmer. Not so sure how that's going to work out with the Texas summer coming!
If you came in to put my bed back to where it was now you would get a fight.
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wow, if this works for snoring I'm in. So it's about 17,4 cm for a 200 cm length.
I would like a system that progressively elevates the bed using a lever or something. But let's see how it works first.
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I put some more of the info on the bed therapy on this post
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/hot-topics/before-you-believe-what-you-read-on-quackwatch-read-this/new/#new (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/hot-topics/before-you-believe-what-you-read-on-quackwatch-read-this/new/#new)
I am still enjoying the therapy. I am at 8". No problems. Sleep like a log and no snoring now.
Too bad this article from Nenah's book is so longer I would type it all in here. but I did put some of the bigger stuff at that link.
Her book is incredible.
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I put a post that followed yours Al.
I however am NOT sleeping like a log. I used to sleep like a log and now I'm sleeping much lighter, waking up, having tons of dreams but also having more energy during the day. I can't even stay in bed to do my normal routines in the morning - too antsy. Want UP.
It's obviously making a big impact.
The biggest I want to repeat here is that both my husband and I can't seem to drink enough water. It's freaky weird how much water we are drinking.
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I just learned that a friend has raised his bed 8" because of a hiatal hernia.
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Did it help the hernia?
My sleep is radically different. I think it's a good thing overall - but I'm interesting to see what happens in the long-run.
Interesting too is that my dog since the first day I elevated my bed refuses to sleep in it any more. He visits at night and then leaves to sleep on the floor and visits in the morning again to get his massage. Yes, he is spoiled. ;)
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ook, I kept wondering how to elevate my bed, looked at inflatable balloons under the mattress etc, and today it dawned on me to just grab a few pieces of wood and stack them under the top. Really simple :D . It's lifted 12 cm now, need to get more of those to have the right height.
Al,
Can you tell me why did you mention 8 inches (~20cm), was that calculated with the formula (mattress length*sin(5))?
Also, what's the link of that IBT forum? I'd like more testimonials about this.
Interesting:
Inclined Bed Therapy I.B.T. Andrew K Fletcher (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3D7tBQfCxQ#)
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ook, I kept wondering how to elevate my bed, looked at inflatable balloons under the mattress etc, and today it dawned on me to just grab a few pieces of wood and stack them under the top. Really simple :D . It's lifted 12 cm now, need to get more of those to have the right height.
Al,
Can you tell me why did you mention 8 inches (~20cm), was that calculated with the formula (mattress length*sin(5))?
Also, what's the link of that IBT forum? I'd like more testimonials about this.
12 CM = 4 3/4" I had to look it up : )
People just talk about that amount (8" or 20 cm) as a round #. It may well be 5 degrees.
Depending on your bed type you could stack it under the box spring at the head and maybe a couple of places down the bed to support it on the angle.
I just put it under the legs at the head of the bed.
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Majormark - I posted on page two of this thread the link to the forum.
You will find lots of ideas on the raising of the bed on that forum. Hubbie just replaced some legs on my side and I was instantly up but on his side he first used phone books and then bought a frame and did all sorts of tinkering in his shop.
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I've noticed that I am having much larger bowel movements in the morning too. The first two days they were stinkier than normal.
Probably increased hydration.
The stinkier part is similar to what people in the Rife community talk about when they mention a detox. It's just old stuff getting flushed from who knows where.
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Also, what's the link of that IBT forum? I'd like more testimonials about this.
From Dorothy's post # 18
http://www.inclinedbedtherapy.com/index.php?option=com_ninjaboard&view=forums&Itemid=30 (http://www.inclinedbedtherapy.com/index.php?option=com_ninjaboard&view=forums&Itemid=30)
This goes directly to the reverse trendelenberg position page on that forum (sleeping like a bat).
http://www.inclinedbedtherapy.com/index.php?option=com_ninjaboard&view=topic&id=46&Itemid=30 (http://www.inclinedbedtherapy.com/index.php?option=com_ninjaboard&view=topic&id=46&Itemid=30)
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Maybe - it might also be that my system that usually is shut down at night just keeps on going and then it all comes out in the morning. During the day I pee often and poop after eating - but when you are still processing all night and hold it in until morning there just isn't the frequent little cleanses like in the day and becomes one big cleanse in the morning of everything all night. It's like instead of having to fit in 24 hours worth of work crammed into 14 - 16 hours my body just got every hour to do the tidying in. I love it that those night - time hours are being used more productively.
I betcha that if someone has so much that they can't get it out during the day that this night shift work could really be a miracle cure. I can see why it works.
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Maybe - it might also be that my system that usually is shut down at night just keeps on going and then it all comes out in the morning. During the day I pee often and poop after eating - but when you are still processing all night and hold it in until morning there just isn't the frequent little cleanses like in the day and becomes one big cleanse in the morning of everything all night. It's like instead of having to fit in 24 hours worth of work crammed into 14 - 16 hours my body just got every hour to do the tidying in. I love it that those night - time hours are being used more productively.
I betcha that if someone has so much that they can't get it out during the day that this night shift work could really be a miracle cure. I can see why it works.
That is a vata tendency, to go more frequently. If you seem to be doing it that way then that's perfect.
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Yeah - Va ta's me. hee hee.
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I've never wanted to sleep with my head elevated, I hate even sleeping with a pillow and sleep flat on my bed.. but I know I -have- noticed that when I fell asleep in class in high school (when I still ate SAD, plenty of school pizza) while sitting up in my seat with my head on the desk, I got really really good sleep then. It was a really weird sleep to, it was so extremely light that I could still hear everything that was going on around me even though I was asleep. And even if I got only a few minutes of sleep like that, I still felt really refreshed afterwards.
So I've wondered if maybe sleeping while sitting up is better than laying down, though I've never actually been able to fall asleep at night while sitting up. The only other way I've thought of sleeping is the way described in "Never Cry Wolf" which the guy observed Wolves to sleep in a particular way that they get up every few minutes, walk in a circle and then lay back down and sleep for a few minutes, before getting up again, and just continuing like that the whole time. He said it was an amazingly wonderful way to sleep and that he felt a lot more refreshed after far less sleep than sleeping like a log. I wanted to try that too, but was never successful mostly because I do enjoy just sleeping like a log most of the time.
Never really thought of elevating my head though, and usually preferred having my head lowered and feet elevated, but after reading this maybe I'll make more of an effort to keep my upper body more elevated so that I don't get all those toxins staying.. I probably wouldn't be able to have an elevated bed so much though, because I can't sleep on my back, and i also like to switch which side of the bed I lay my head at.
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After the first night at 12cm height, I can say it went pretty well.
* I only slept 7 hours, actually maybe only 5... because I kept having these really vivid visualizations/dreams for the first two hours while still being conscious (probably that milk and honey I ate before bed contributed to some extent).
* I felt really refreshed in the morning (despite the short amount of time in bed), all chackras were activated completely (but I will not jump to conclusions yet, because this is not the first time it happens).
* I did feel the need to drink some more liquids, but not so much as Dorothy reported. This is probably because yesterday I ate a lot of fat (butter and milk), which normally provides good hydration.
I will keep this height for now to see what happens in the next few days and will get to 17.4cm after that.
Thanks Al for the tips! If IBT turns out to reduce the necessary sleep time overall it's worth it just for that. I have a theory, that may or may not be true, but I think that at night some key brain cells get replaced and we can not be conscious during the process. Also if the metabolism is increased during this process, those cells should get replaced faster and less sleep time should be required (maybe even more food intake too).
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Wolf,
The idea is not to just raise your head, say with a pillow, but to tilt the whole lying surface from head to foot of the bed or whatever you are lying on.
I do not like a pillow when laying on my back. It causes neck pain. Also sleeping while sitting, unfortunately results in my head hanging in one direction or another which results in a stretched and painful neck "kink".
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Majormark - you said it first so it's not my fault ;) - chakras are different. There has been lots of shifting.
I'm wondering if in part my husband's weird heart beats has something to do with the bed tilt because our heart chakras both have been more open. We have both been wanting to touch more, have more sex, be more lovely dovey and say kinder more generous things to each other and I can feel the difference in my chakras. It's hard to say that this has been just the beds - but I think it has had a impact.
I will try to eat more fat today to see if that helps with the thirst, but the thirst has already started to subside somewhat. It peaked 2-3 days after the tilt. I also went full tilt right away which might have been part of why I need (ed) so much water.
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That is a vata tendency, to go more frequently. If you seem to be doing it that way then that's perfect.
I realized Al that what I wrote might have been misinterpreted. I don't poop each time after eating - I meant that I don't usually poop without eating first as peristalsis usually will get started after a meal. I normally don't eat my first meal until the afternoon and even that first meal is liquid. Since I started eating my first meal so late I would rarely have a bm in the morning. But with the bed tilt the bms in the morning have been large. That's why I think it has to do with the fact that everything is kept moving so much at night that now in the morning there is a natural desire to rid the body of all the sanitation work of the night.
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i decided to join this experiment because my sleep is already awesome so perhaps ill have different result?
i fall asleep easily at about 9 pm and wake naturally between 5:30 and 6 am.
sometimes i have to wake up and pee and drink water but i dont have trouble falling back to sleep
i have at least two rounds of dreams per night
i wake up really nice and warm and my skin looks like i have excellent circulation, i think i breathe better at night then during the day:/
i pee first thing and usually poo shortly there after, sometimes without even drinking water, but mostly after ive had a little swig or two..
i stuck two bricks that are about 2 inches thick under each side of the bed, so i raised it 4 inches at the head and whatever mathmatics and numbers blahblahblah
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Welcome to the party Jessica! 8)
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oops well fuck i would like to modify the above post to show that that is the report of my pre-elevated sleep quality
last night i slept with the bed elevated by two bricks, so about 4-5 inches i am guessing
anyway it was a bit harder for me to fall asleep, i noticed my feet were extremely warm
still woke up to pee and drink water and the regular time, it was just as easy to fall back asleep
had extra vivid silly dreams and good recall, definitely two rounds of dreaming
same bodily functions upon waking
it was weird and fun to slide down the bed to get out :)
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2nd night
fell asleep more quickly
feet didnt feel as hot
woke up earlier in middle of the night to take a pee and drink water
seriously vivid dreams
woke again at 5 am to pee and drink water
amourous dreams, lol! but wanted to add that because perhaps if i had a sig. other it might corroborate others experiences of feeling more sexual
kinda feel more stiff in the morning though, my feet dont feel as rested..hhm?
will keep trying for a while longer to see if there is any difference
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Elevated 3 inches for the first night - so far so good.
Will add another 3 inches next week
O0
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Snoring seems to be gone.
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I have not been around lately, so, I have not tilted my bed. I'm not sure if I will tilt it. I will discuss it at home.
D, what you say from time to time often hits home, and is amazing of course!
the bed tilt because our heart chakras both have been more open. We have both been wanting to touch more, have more sex, be more lovely dovey and say kinder more generous things to each other and I can feel the difference in my chakras. It's hard to say that this has been just the beds - but I think it has had a impact.
I will try to eat more fat today to see if that helps with the thirst, but the thirst has already started to subside somewhat. It peaked 2-3 days after the tilt.
I think it may be partially astrological or something else, perhaps a coincidence. We've been more amorous etc here too, without a tilt.
I think I've been snoring a little lately. Maybe I'll use that angle to tilt it.
My head can tend to be warm when I sleep. Perhaps tilting would cool it.
I didn't read the other pages of this thread yet. Did man during paleo era tilt when he slept?
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Zi - I bet people didn't sleep constantly on a totally flat surface in the wild! It also feels weird to sleep with head down so I bet when on a little bit of an incline in nature we put our heads in the higher position. Funny to hear that we are in sink "astrologically". ;)
My bowel movements and urination have gone back to normal as has my sleep/yoga/mediations habits for the most part. My dreams are still much more vivid and like they used to be so just that one thing would have me keep the tilt. Hubbie's going to chiropractor today to see if that will help with the skipped beats that has been happening since we tilted. If the chiro doesn't make a difference - we will put his bed back down at least most of the way. That's just too scary weird and since it coincided with the tilt - he might have gone too fast or the tilt might have affected his meridians or his spine. His spine is not looking good - whereas for me I'm standing up straighter and the tilt is working quite well in that regard. One of the differences might be that hubbie sleeps mostly on his side where I don't. Could be just a coincidence - just can't take the chance.
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so i am on my forth or fifth night of sleeping like this...still a ton of vivid dreams, as good of sleep as i was getting before(i dont have trouble sleeping), feel like i have less boogers in the morning, also starting to think it does help move turds through the body at night. i still only have it raised 4 or so inches, perhaps in a few days i will try 6-8?
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It's 18 nights and we like it. Sleep is much deeper for my wife. She has always been a very light sleeper. I sleep like a rock. My back feels substantially stronger and more solid and I am much more erect. That's very nice.
Snore no more.
We go to bed a lot earlier. I can drink water now. I didn't like to drink much previously.
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A few nights ago we raised the feet of my husband's side up a few inches again because of his missed heartbeat thing that coincided with raising the bed. We think it has to do with vitamin d overdose levels but it could be influenced by the bed incline how he is detoxing or not detoxing or using up the vitamin d. My side has been at the same level and the only direct affect has been with my dreams at this point and the feeling that the incline is natural and right for me. How many days now is it? I went directly to full height so probably have been doing it around the same time as Al.
But then last night hubbie put a grounding sheet on his side. I muscle tested it for him and it was very good and for me it was very bad - so just on his side. But that thing has sure put a fly in the ointment of the incline bed therapy experiment for us because last night we went to bed around 12 and I was up at 1:30 watching him sleep solidly on his back without snoring (even incline he would give a little snorey like sounds on his back that long) and he was so out that I checked his pulse - BUT HE DIDN'T WAKE UP! He's a very light sleeper - but I checked his pulse and not a movement from him. I was wide awake for the entire night, I couldn't even sleep NEXT to the grounding sheet. I had to get out of bed to get away from that thing. I couldn't sleep until he was up.
So now we added grounding sheet to incline bed therapy so I no longer will be able to analyze how the incline is doing. I thought the sheet on his side wouldn't matter, but apparently it does. I'm not myself at all today. This is going to be a tough situation because that sheet I'm pretty sure is really good for him - but I might not be able to sleep next to him... or I might have to go onto a polyphasic sleep cycle to be able to deal with it.
I'm very confused.
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Dorothy,
Maybe you need to test that thing for a longer period of time or maybe there are some negative energies coming from the ground in that area. A simple way to take care of them would be to direct them into water or salt-water.
And, for me, the inclined bed works fine. I do feel somewhat better during the day and I drink more water when I'm not consuming milk or other fats. It does not reduce sleep time too much in the short term, but maybe it will be different after a while.
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Dorothy,
What do you mean by a grounding sheet? Are you talking about some sort of electrical grounding thing?
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Dorothy,
What do you mean by a grounding sheet? Are you talking about some sort of electrical grounding thing?
http://www.earthing.com/Default.asp (http://www.earthing.com/Default.asp)
Yeah it's grounding into an electrical outlet - just the grounding part - not the electrical part.
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Dorothy,
Maybe you need to test that thing for a longer period of time or maybe there are some negative energies coming from the ground in that area. A simple way to take care of them would be to direct them into water or salt-water.
And, for me, the inclined bed works fine. I do feel somewhat better during the day and I drink more water when I'm not consuming milk or other fats. It does not reduce sleep time too much in the short term, but maybe it will be different after a while.
I'm living on a particular spot of earth that draws lots of negative energy into the soil. It's true - it's a vortex. It's why I was guided to living here. Most people dump negative energy into the ground. My energy system works the opposite way. No amount of time testing it is going to change that. The grounding sheet is incredibly good for my husband and very bad for me - even when it is only on his side of the bed. I never slept on it at all because I knew it wouldn't be good for me. It seems to affect me negatively though even on only his side. I'm working hard on figuring out how to work with it in a way that won't make me sick. So far I'm not having much success - but I might have an idea to try for tonight. I can't sleep away from my husband and I really don't want to ask him not to use the sheet that seems to be so very good for him at a time when he really needs it. I'll figure something out.
But these grounding devices are really a wonderful thing for most people. If y'all haven't heard about them - do check it out.
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As far as the incline bed therapy goes I know for certain that it's simply good for me. No downside at all. Just made me release better at night and keep the cleansing going and my kidneys really like it. My organs are happier on that incline. I took to it immediately. Just needed more water at first.
We might have gone way too fast with my husband though. We're probably going to raise the feet up again so that he is only inclined about an inch or two and keep it like that for more like a month at a time. I think he saw how good it was going for me and wanted to hop on the bandwagon - but fast isn't always good for everyone. I didn't have much in the way of issues for it to exacerbate.
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Wanted to add here now that my incline bed has started recently to improve my ability to meditate/do inner work and my water consumption and urination have turned to the opposite. I need LESS water than I did before and I can stay going from sleep to a deep meditative place without urinating or getting up for more than 14 hours straight. My dream life is more useful, powerful and my sleep more healing on all levels and meditation/healing work enhanced.
This incline bed therapy is not only good for people wanting to heal something - but generally empowering on all levels - at least it is for me.
Thank you Al!!!!!
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My pleasure!
We've had good luck also. My W sleeps soundly now which is a first for her. I find that my back is stronger and straighter. I did a headstand and it felt great. I was able to do the full lotus for about 40 minutes which is unusual for me. I was out kite surfing this afternoon and was completely on, never missed a turn. It was awesome.
Re the bed, try getting some quartz crystals, put them in the mid point of each side of the bed. This will knock out any electrical stuff.
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Yeah - I forgot to add: I was just telling my husband at dinner that I find myself sitting up straight with my lower back in a perfect curve keeping my spine in alignment. I've tried to force myself to do such things since high school but never could do it. But even right now as I type I find myself in that position! It's simply bizarre that my body wants to stay straight and is doing it naturally with no prodding. It's a real gift.
... and thanks for the crystal suggestion!
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Eveheart posted this elsewhere, for a giggle:
http://www.northwesternflipside.com/2010/09/16/two-dead-others-injured-in-bed-riser-collapse/ (http://www.northwesternflipside.com/2010/09/16/two-dead-others-injured-in-bed-riser-collapse/)
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a few nights ago i put the head of my bed down, my feet were TOO hot for me to sleep anymore and i felt as though i had sore legs in the morning, ive always had a problem with edema down there though and a LOT of ankle and knee injuries were i have a lot of nerve damage soooo...i am sleeping just as well non-enclinated though, however i did feel it made my poops come out sooner in the am(although its not a problem now) as well as made my face look more refreshed
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a few nights ago i put the head of my bed down, my feet were TOO hot for me to sleep anymore and i felt as though i had sore legs in the morning, ive always had a problem with edema down there though and a LOT of ankle and knee injuries were i have a lot of nerve damage soooo...i am sleeping just as well non-enclinated though, however i did feel it made my poops come out sooner in the am(although its not a problem now) as well as made my face look more refreshed
Jessica, incline bed therapy is supposed to be the answer for edema and nerve damage. Perhaps you did too much of an incline too fast.
I've noticed that my kidneys are really working. I have had slight rings under my eyes since starting - but I don't think it's a bad thing. I think that when my kidneys finally catch up completely I'll be ahead of the game.
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Jessica, incline bed therapy is supposed to be the answer for edema and nerve damage. Perhaps you did too much of an incline too fast.
I've noticed that my kidneys are really working. I have had slight rings under my eyes since starting - but I don't think it's a bad thing. I think that when my kidneys finally catch up completely I'll be ahead of the game.
doesnt seem like it would help with edema in the feet. there was way too much circulation and they were firey hot as i was sleeping and then i felt like i wanted to lay with my feet up during the day. i stand up for the majority of the day too, walking and hiking a lot. i hate having hot feet, when i get stress related boughts of inflammation my hands and feet light on fire, i have pretty fucked up adrenals though, they are going to take a long time to trust me again
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Just going by what lots of people reported Jessica from reading the forum. I'm just wondering if a little bit would help the circulation where a whole lot is just too much??? Of course you have to do what feels right.
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i tried the incline (at 4inches) for a couple of weeks. at first it was fun, but that changed. i workout at the end of the day and drink a lot of water at that time so i'm usually up once a night to use the bathroom,and then i fall right back to sleep. with the incline i was up 4 or 5 times, i can fall right back to sleep, but that much disruption i could feel it the next day. i don't think i need to speed things up to be more balanced, i think i need to slow them down. i'm back to the ground and getting my sleep again.
jessica, are your feet swollen when they're hot?
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What I don't understand is why anyone should go up four inches at a time. That seems like it could be a lot. Why not one inch - just putting a couple of thin books under the two feet at one end of the bed.
Having all the liquids moving with some gravity makes a great deal of sense to me - having all night to still cleanse and not pool up liquids, and so far it has stopped some foot pain that was starting and I'm getting generally warmer and sitting straighter - all good stuff. I have a weird bed situation so going the full tilt made logistical sense and I felt right about doing it. For me, it's making a really great difference - but going too fast seems to be really wrong for others.
My guess is that everyone has an ideal speed to be going - but I'm also guessing that the sicker you are the more you need it and going real slow makes a lot of sense to me when not in ideal health.
I wish I had understood this for my husband at the outset. I think the drinking of so much water and the kidney cleansing and stress caused an electrolyte imbalance which has caused him skipping heart beats. He went too fast too with four inches. If I had to do again I would have started half to an inch at a time with each increase that same small amount so that the whole thing took at least a year.
Except for me because I thought it was a blast with the extreme kidney reaction at first - but that also might be dumb. ;) I'm loving my new bed!
But the big lesson in all this is that this stuff although so simple and seemingly innocuous, can have some really big effects.
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yes, i learned my lesson :) usually when i start things slowly the differences are so subtle that i don't know if they're real or in my will or nothing at all, so i've always tended to take on too much so i can find my starting point and work from there. in this case, ground level is a good start :) seriously, though, 4 inches didn't look like much, lol.... i was really wrong!
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I had to go 3 inches at a time because the bed had two centre legs (1st leg 1" 2nd 2" 3rd 3"). I just went up the second step and am now at 6 inches. At 3" I had been having great sleeps, and now since going up to 6" I haven't slept for 2 nights - what does this mean?
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I think it means that your kidneys are working at night! At first it was extra intense with the dreams going in and out of sleep too. Each step is going to create more pressure, which means more liquid movement and more cleansing. i think this incline thing stimulates the lympathic system pretty strongly as welll as the urinary.
Keep us posted on how things go for you Alive - but personally, I would put it down an inch so you increase only one inch at a time from what I'm reading from people here and from what you said. 3 inches might be too much for you. 4 inches was too much for a few others, so makes sense that 3 inch jump could be too much for you. 6 inches is very close to the 7 inches which is supposed to be full tilt. More than 8 isn't supposed to give any more results.
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yes, i learned my lesson :) usually when i start things slowly the differences are so subtle that i don't know if they're real or in my will or nothing at all, so i've always tended to take on too much so i can find my starting point and work from there. in this case, ground level is a good start :) seriously, though, 4 inches didn't look like much, lol.... i was really wrong!
Sadly that's why I enjoyed going up to full tilt right away - it really felt like something big was happening and still is. One inch at time isn't all that glamorous and I probably wouldn't have known that it was really doing much or as good for me as I now believe it is if I went at a "reasonable" pace. ;)
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They say that there is a reaction at first with some people and it may last awhile but ultimately it works out. You just have to grin and bear it for long term gain.
I am at around a month now and I am doing fine. My legs are very slightly more solid, but it isn't edema. It's muscle.
My back is definitely more solid and straighter, which is good as it was slightly bent forward (not good as it is a family tradition)
My snoring has stopped, unless of course I have a large meal of cooked food.
My wife sleeps al night which is awesome. I have never known her to do so.
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I just don't buy this elevated head talk. I went camping last night which is semi paleo and it was horrid no matter what position I took. I was freeezing, sore and no girl contact.
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I am using an inclined bed position, too. I found comfort in a tilt that was less than the 5 degree maximum. In my position, I feel a slight traction in my joints, which is quite agreeable. I feel no stiffness when I wake up, which was my main complaint with a flat bed. With a greater tilt, I dreamed all night about sliding off the bed and having to climb back up, and I woke up in the morning with my feet slid all the way down to the floor.
I just don't buy this elevated head talk. I went camping last night which is semi paleo and it was horrid no matter what position I took. I was freeezing, sore and no girl contact.
@Wodgina: I think the tilt has to be reversed for those in the Southern Hemisphere. In addition, try a warming pad with a 3" foam mattress and three female dungarees (those Aussie wild animals). That should solve everything. You'll have to try it next time.
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With a greater tilt, I dreamed all night about sliding off the bed and having to climb back up, and I woke up in the morning with my feet slid all the way down to the floor.
@Wodgina: I think the tilt has to be reversed for those in the Southern Hemisphere. In addition, try a warming pad with a 3" foam mattress and three female dungarees (those Aussie wild animals). That should solve everything. You'll have to try it next time.
LOL
I might try that Aussie prescription. Is two or four OK or does it have to be three?
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@wodgina that's really sad - please retry experiment with comfortable mat and warm sleeping bag! (Plus wish you luck on the girl contact)
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Eveheart - I went directly to full tilt and the first night I was slid down too and waking up to pull myself back up. Second night much better in that regard. Third night my body adapted fully to keeping me in bed.
And you're too funny! ;D
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I am using an inclined bed position, too. I found comfort in a tilt that was less than the 5 degree maximum. In my position, I feel a slight traction in my joints, which is quite agreeable. I feel no stiffness when I wake up, which was my main complaint with a flat bed. With a greater tilt, I dreamed all night about sliding off the bed and having to climb back up, and I woke up in the morning with my feet slid all the way down to the floor.
@Wodgina: I think the tilt has to be reversed for those in the Southern Hemisphere. In addition, try a warming pad with a 3" foam mattress and three female dungarees (those Aussie wild animals). That should solve everything. You'll have to try it next time.
Heheh will try!
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@wodgina that's really sad - please retry experiment with comfortable mat and warm sleeping bag! (Plus wish you luck on the girl contact)
I'm more of a campervan type camper now I've lived in a tent for a couple of months before but bit over it now.
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Since incline I've been sitting straighter naturally. I always thought those balls to sit on seemed like a good idea - but who on earth would really be able to sit like that for any length of time? I got one at a garage sale and It's been my chair for a couple of days - no problem - feels good and right. Slumping in a chair I can only do a short time now.
This is totally new and quite amazing to me.
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I built a base for one of those balls. It's actually not bad.
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Mine has some form of weight in it - what I like the most about it is that I can move much with it. It's doesn't roll away with the beanie bag in it. I also can jump up and down a little with it which I bet gives me some of the benefits of a trampoline! Fun too. ;)
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good topic and really interesting to read every one replies. And yeah elevate the head using to more pillows than body is one of the better and natural snoring remedy.
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I used to elevate my head only, but I find that for me it encourages snoring and a bad feeling in my neck
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Hi raw-al,
you can use anti snore pillow for avoid neck pain and to get quality sleep, try one i am sure you will get better sleep.
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I tried one which was like a u-shape. Is that what you are talking about? I liked it. It eventually wore out.
I tried Snore-no-more homeopathic tabs from Wally-World they worked also but were just an expense.
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u mean there is some holes in that pillow right. If possible kindly let me know how much did you pay for that pillow?
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AND i never think so that homeopathic tabs are work out. can you able to find out the reason for your snoring problem?
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My wife got it @ hemmlacher (sp) I think. Incredibly expensive Xmas present. I think it was 55 with shipping about the same.
I find homeopathic stuff works on the few occasions I have tried it.
One day I laid on the bed and relaxed my face and body as if I was asleep and then moved my head a bit till I was able to get the snoring started. Then I tried different pillows and body positions till it stopped. I was able to stop it and I found that if I went to sleep in a certain position I could stop the snoring. That worked for awhile till I started to forget to go to sleep that way.
I find that the Inclined Bed Therapy works with no effort. The only time I snore now is if I eat cooked food in the evening.
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I have one friend who tried having an operation because he had a more serious version, sleep apnea. Anyways he is no longer alive. Complications from the surgery. (Known as infection.)
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Brian got those fancy expensive pillows (several types) but still couldn't sleep on his back without apnea. We tried those things to hold open the nasal passageways too.
Even with just the tiny incline he now has his apnea is gone.
I'm still LOVING the incline btw. All benefit and no downside for me at all. My kidneys feel like they are starting to catch up with the extra work load. I did get rings under my eyes (sign of kidney stress) but those are starting to finally go away now.
We still haven't been able to "fix" Brian's skipping heart beats that started the day after incline though. Getting hints, possibilities and limited help by some things - but the incline was too much of a stress on him. We think all the water he drank and the extra stress on the liquid systems of the body through the incline pushed him over an edge with an already present deficiency.
Again - I would like to suggest going slow. He went too fast for him. I went to full tilt but it only did me good - but I've also been a raw foodist a long time and he hasn't. I think it's got to be highly individual what speed you raise the bed.
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All this talk about inclined bed therapy got me curious.
So I merely folded one edge of my trundle bed so the entire bed was inclined.
I just woke up.
I can't complain.
Maybe in a few more days of inclined sleeping I will see and feel results.
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How many inches did you raise the head of your bed GS?
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How many inches did you raise the head of your bed GS?
I haven't measured the angle yet, but I took a picture so it is more descriptive.
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The max effective height is 7 to 8 inches - just so you know. Anything above that doesn't hurt, just might be harder to sleep because of the angle and doesn't give any more value. Looks like the feet are directly on the floor so you can take a tape measure to see how far the head is off the floor.
That looks like a very easy way to make the change.
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I just wonder to use a hospital etectric bed to elevate the head.
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raw - that won't work. You have have the bed straight with the whole thing at an angle.
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We are looking at houses these days and the whole deal of the IBT has got me thinking about making a bed that folds up to the wall thus freeing up the bedroom for other purposes.
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In NYC a while back at this point, there was a store that would make murphy beds according to spec. If you have enough space they are real pains in the butt - but if you really actually do need the space it can make a tiny space work better. I'm sure you could modify a sofa bed to do the trick too.
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raw - that won't work. You have have the bed straight with the whole thing at an angle.
Attached is a diagram that illustrates the inclined bed therapy so there will be no mistake about its interpretation.
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obviously your points are appreciate, you know one of relation told me the same problem like, he could able to stop her snoring when changing the sleep position, but she could not able to sleep for at least half an hour , once she return back to her favorite position then again she started snoring. She explained that she could not completely changed fer position. Okie i will try to give you some better option in my next reply.
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hello martin welcome,
and really awesome work that you are attache image over here and it should definitely useful for viewers to understand simply.
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Can we rename the subject of this thread to:
Inclined Bed Therapy (formerly Elevating the head of your bed) ?
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My bed has been elevated 18cm for a while now. I don't think I've noticed any differences in my sleep or otherwise so far.
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Can we rename the subject of this thread to:
Inclined Bed Therapy (formerly Elevating the head of your bed) ?
Sure
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Subject changed to: Inclined Bed Therapy (formerly Elevating the head of your bed)
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So you still haven't told us how many inches your head is elevated above your feet at this point GS. The diagram shows what I described as the max - 8 inches higher.
I can not determine from your picture how many inches the head is above the feet - maybe some people can - but I'm not good at determining angles/inclines by looking.
I think I might have been the only person to start directly at max incline and I would be interested to know if you have done so as well. Are you sleeping on this bed every night? Is your wife also on the incline?
There have been several people that have had bad results doing too much incline at once. I'm curious what percentage of people here will have that difficulty.
IBT is still going well for me. Since I didn't have much if anything in the way of symptomology to reverse I'm not a very good test in some ways. I just like it and it feels like it's a good thing for me. I know that it can have a powerful affect from what happened to Brian and from the massive amount of water we were drinking at first. Now, if I recommend this to anyone, I want to figure out a safe number of inches to suggest to raise the head of the bed at first and how fast (or slow) to go in continuing the elevation over time.
So, I would greatly appreciate it if people add how many inches they raise the heads of their beds in relation to the feet and over what time periods they raise it along with any affects.
Thanks.
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obviously your points are appreciate, you know one of relation told me the same problem like, he could able to stop her snoring when changing the sleep position, but she could not able to sleep for at least half an hour , once she return back to her favorite position then again she started snoring. She explained that she could not completely changed fer position. Okie i will try to give you some better option in my next reply.
Huh?
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I'm at a 4" incline and holding because I keep sliding off the low end of the bed. I wake up several times per night with my feet dangling and have to crawl back up. I'm sleeping in the buff on a cotton sheet, which covers a three-inch foam on top of a board. No smart-alecky suggestions, please... I've already thought of everything from suction cups to tar paper.
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Im lucky it turned out 8 inches higher at the head.
So for the past 4 nights ive been sleeping inclined.
My sleep every night and including this afternoon is a deep healing sleep. Its like my body suddenly went into overdrive repairing everything. I have experienced healing sleep before. Maybe this ibt will take my health to a new level.
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Excellent GS!, I'm glad it worked out for you.
As a side note for any of you that have pets it works for animals also.
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I'm at a 4" incline and holding because I keep sliding off the low end of the bed. I wake up several times per night with my feet dangling and have to crawl back up. I'm sleeping in the buff on a cotton sheet, which covers a three-inch foam on top of a board. No smart-alecky suggestions, please... I've already thought of everything from suction cups to tar paper.
Do you have you any bedsheets that are rougher like maybe cotton flannelette?
Another choice might be to put the headboard at the base of the bed.
I sleep in the buff on cotton, but my mattress is a camping mattress, which is a semi-air/rubber thing. It's not the most comfortable, if you sleep on your side and I am not suggesting it. http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/SleepingBags/SleepingPadsInflating/PRD~5021-438/therm-a-rest-luxury-map-sleeping-pad.jsp (http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/SleepingBags/SleepingPadsInflating/PRD~5021-438/therm-a-rest-luxury-map-sleeping-pad.jsp)
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The base / foot of my bed is against a wall so when i slide down my feet touch the wall i just push up again.
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Opposite to IBT
http://ahealthybody.net/body-slant/Age-In-Reverse.shtml (http://ahealthybody.net/body-slant/Age-In-Reverse.shtml)
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Ugh! At 2:30 a.m. last night, I removed the blocks to get a good-night's sleep, which I do not get when I'm slipping off the bed all night. Bracing my feet against the wall was a logical idea, but it gave me pain in my hips. As soon as I un-inclined the bed, I fell into a restful sleep until it was time to get up for work. I like the feel of a gentle incline of about 2" because it gives my neck, back, and shoulders a gentle traction without the feeling of slipping.
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I'm thinking Eve that you might have to go very slowly to let your body, subconscious get very gently used to it over time. The fact that 2 inches feels good I'm sure is already doing something positive at that angle too. You might have to increase it only a quarter of an inch at a time over years to get there but who cares? You might get more out of your two inches than I get out of the 8 inches!
Sounds like 2 inches might be the right place to suggest starting for people I'm thinking. I'd be curious to know if Jessica and/or ionna would have troubles with only 2 inches.
GS - So glad it's working so well for you and that you just happened to have something that was perfect for the job.
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I'm not so sure that the Egyptians and Andrew K. Fletcher are the ultimate authorities on degree of incline, so I'm not planning on working up to a specific degree of incline. What appealed to me most is the observation that sleeping surfaces in nature are not necessarily level, and that on finding a sleeping surface, a human would naturally rotate to an inclined-head position. I'm just not the type of cavewoman who would go around checking the incline with my paleo-protractor.
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Well, I'm the kind of "not-so-cave-woman" that sleeps in a bed so doesn't get all sorts of different inclines naturally so have to figure out what's best for such an unnatural thing and taking into consideration all the other highly unnatural things I do and don't do in my modern lifestyle. This "not-so-cave-woman" also trusts someone that came up with the idea in the first place and did studies on it and has a forum where people tell all the problems they've cured. When enough people say that they get increased results up to a certain height but not beyond it - I'm going to take it into consideration because that's the best I have next to living a completely different kind of life than I'm leading now - which I don't want to give up. Anything that actually helps - that's what appeals to me. I don't mind modern protractors if they are useful.
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Here is a post from another group from a MT. I tried attaching the picture from it but this site seems to be allergic to my attempts at adding .jpg files...
"Yes, the benefits of Incline Bed Therapy are beyond awesome.
When we sleep at night, even in a normal horizontal position, we remove the compression aspect of gravity on our spinal discs. They will rehydrate and absorb fluid and become slightly plump again. A bit like putting air into a deflated balloon.
To understand how this is important to us, and why IBT works so well, to the effect of curing wheel-chaired patients with nerve injuries requires us to understand a little about the spine and nerves.
The spinal nerves exit the spine via half circle openings in the top and bottom of each vertebra call Intervertebral foramen. The distance between the top and bottom foramen is regulated by our spinal discs.
As we age the spinal discs that manage this most important task for us loose their ability to rehydrate as well as they did when we were in our youth. When we are in an upright position, gravity is compressing these discs, and by the end of the day they have lost a little of their hydration and plumpness and the space in the foramen narrows, thus risking putting stress and pressure to the exiting spinal nerves.
When we sleep inclined, not only is the pressure reduced so the disc can rehydrate, it is reversed and a slight traction comes into play opening the spine up. IBT will gently pull the vertebra apart which means more fluid will enter the spinal discs and far better cushioning and distance is maintained between the vertebra. Over time, (6 months +) its a bit like getting a new backbone.
The body can heal and rebuild the nerve system much easier in this state of spinal lengthening. It can even help rebuild damaged discs and damaged nerves (no surgery needed). Thus we see some reports of wheel-chaired patients seeing their back and spine heal to the point they can throw out the chair and get a normal life again.
And to think we get all this for free :-)))
Enjoy your new back and spine! So long as you keep yourself inclined 4 inches to 8 inches your entire body and all the functions in it will continue to serve you well past your 100's
And we haven't even gone into the detox and heart value and the many other almost miraculous aspects IBT provides.
Professional health services aren't going to push IBT. I puts many health services out of work for its ability to restore health to the entire body and also helps to optimizes all system of the body.
I can't think of anything more important or valuable for people to know and utilize.
We don't want to go too high an incline with IBT otherwise we loose the myofascial trauma reduction effects IBT provides.
While the spinal traction is low and mild, it posses no threat or stress to the body, and the body can relax and "let-go" very easily. If we incline our beds too much, then the traction increases and a level of stress is introduced to the body and muscles have to slightly tighten to maintain skeletal integrity. We loose much of the benefits of the zero stress traction.
I have found 4 to 7 inches is perfect for my damaged back (nolonger damaged, it repaired itself :-) ... 8 inches and above is getting a bit too much for me and very slight stresses come into play. Currently my bed is set to 4 inches and this is where I have left it for over 12 months now.
Like most "real" healing arts, we are all going to be a little different and will find our own level of best comfort."
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Traction is also mentioned online by chiropractors and physical therapists who heal frozen shoulder-type complaints. For the shoulders, traction needs to involve the neck, clavicles and shoulder blades as well as the shoulder joints. I've seen shoulder-traction appliances for sale online, but I think that IBT offers the same benefit without the "contraption-ness" of these appliances. On a flat bed surface, a sufferer (like me) wakes up feeling maximum shoulder pain because of lying "scrunched" all night. On an incline, I feel like "ahhhhhh!" the minute I lie down, and the feeling in the morning is great.
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Eve,
Sounds great that the IBT is working for you.
You'll have to excuse my complete ignorance on the subject. Have you ever tried the inversion tables? I almost bought one till I realized it would be just one more thing in the house. I do Yoga anyways and I hang from my arms on a bar in my garage to loosen my shoulders.
Kite surfing helps also as my arms are extended and almost hyperextended almost all of the time
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Have you ever tried the inversion tables? I almost bought one till I realized it would be just one more thing in the house. I do Yoga anyways and I hang from my arms on a bar in my garage to loosen my shoulders.
I'm with you on the "one more thing in the house" aversion. I do inversion postures in yoga, but they are not done on a slant board. In addition, there are many postures that work the shoulders along with the rest of the corresponding lines of the body, so I never "do" my shoulders in isolation, only as part of a stretch or a twist. The genius of IBT is that it engages every part of the whole body. I think the whole-body approach is key when one wants to let the body heal itself.
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Ok, so it's been about 5 months since I sleep inclined and I noticed a couple of things:
- still cant get used to sleeping without the pillow (this was also before ibt)
- initially, I had intense visualizations as I was falling asleep and eventually they reduced, but dreams are more vivid than before anyway
- same thing is true about fat eating vs water drinking (if I dont eat fat, I drink a lot more water and go at least once per night to the toilet)
- resting and sleep time seems to be, mostly, the same as before
- going to sleep right after a big meal doe not seem to be so taxing
- it does seem to help me recover faster from injuries
Now another really interesting thing that I would like to measure is the brain activity/waves during sleep. If any of you have portable devices that can measure that and make a comparison it would be nice.
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Majromark - why do you want to sleep without a pillow?
My husband reports reduced trips to bathroom from at least three to just one per night.
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Well, I feel sleeping without a pillow would be more natural.
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I used to prefer sleeping without a pillow, but now I reckon it is a good idea to use a pillow to increase the incline by another 50 mm / 2" - to give more incline.
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I used to prefer sleeping without a pillow, but now I reckon it is a good idea to use a pillow to increase the incline by another 50 mm / 2" - to give more incline.
I use a pillow if I lay on my side (to keep my neck straight) but if I lay on my back, I don't use one as it bends my neck and hurts if I do it all night.
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"Traction," or pulling vertebrae gently away from the stresses and damages of gravety, cannot occur when raising the upper body and placing more gravety force on the skeleton. There is no 'traction' effect when one raises the upper body, this is only accomplished with inversion therapy, not by resting inclined or partly standing up, that would be a contradiction in physics.
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"Traction," or pulling vertebrae gently away from the stresses and damages of gravety, cannot occur when raising the upper body and placing more gravety force on the skeleton. There is no 'traction' effect when one raises the upper body, this is only accomplished with inversion therapy, not by resting inclined or partly standing up, that would be a contradiction in physics.
You're right and I noticed that in the original article I read, but since it was written by someone with a Phd, I assumed they were right. Indeed it compresses the spine, but not degree that standing erect does. That amount of compression allows the blood to get into the nooks and crannies to affect repair I am guessing.
I am assuming that leeping at night in an inversion device would be dangerous.
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I've been doing the inclined bed for a couple of months now.
I think I sleep a little better, and am usually warmer. I also remember my dreams much better. That's about all I've noticed.
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Hope you don't mind me offering some answers to questions you may have about IBT?
Have been reading this thread and can see there is an argument about the laws of physics, traction and inclined bed therapy. This is very easy to test using a line marked above your head when standing against a wall as we did when we were kids. You might be in for a shock when you sleep inclined. The resistance / friction between your body and the mattress affords your weight to be distributed differently to when sleeping flat. In other words, your body is trying to move down the bed and the friction prevents it from doing so. This applies traction to the spine much the same as an inversion table does. Nothing wrong with the physics here.
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It's been a while since Inclined Bed Therapy was introduced to this forum and thought it is a good time to ask for progress updates from those of us using IBT.
A new page on Facebook has stimulated some very interesting results and I hear from new people testing IBT almost every day with the same predictable positive results.
For those of you who have not yet heard about what IBT is and has already achieved for people with multiple sclerosis.
Inclined Bed Therapy has been shown to improve health and wellbeing of the many who have tried.
It's simple! raise the head of your bed by 6 inches and sleep on it!
Inclined bed therapy is where one's bed is raised 6 to 8 inches at the head by using bricks, wedges, or blocks to raise it (even books). This can have a positive effect on your health and help with many disorders including:- Spinal cord injury, Multiple Sclerosis, back pain, Circulatory problems, acid reflux or GERD, sinus and respiratory disorders, sleep apnea, low metabolism, edema in the legs, and many others.
Its free to try for everyone. Feel free to tell your friends and families. Inclined Bed Therapy has brought a new lease of life to thousands and it can help you!
Inclined Bed Therapy should only be used as part of a healthy lifestyle. A healthy lifestyle includes following a healthy diet, maintaining a healthy weight, and being physically active.
You can find us on http://facebook.com/inclinedbedtherapy (http://facebook.com/inclinedbedtherapy) where you can share experiences, ask questions and learn more about how this simple non-invasive FREE therapy can help you and your family.
Andrew K Fletcher (Originator of IBT)
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This last post is sounding a bit spammy, Andrew.
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I quit IBT after a couple of months - no potential benefit was worth waking up several times per night to wiggle/climb back onto the mattress. I was constantly sliding feet-ward. I am a placid sleeper otherwise. All the other so-called benefits that others have shared on this forum did not enter into my experience of IBT.
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I'm still finding that it improves my sleep a little, and that I remember my dreams better. Other than that, I don't notice a big difference.
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I slightly incline my bed, but in the opposite (correct) way to have my legs a bit higher. When you have been sitting and standing up the whole day, it's good for the legs to have them higher as it helps blood circulation in the veins and thus rests them.
It's like when massaging: you should never massage from up to down the feet, but the opposite way.
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@ iguana
I heard that by elevating your feet higher than the body at slight degree it shuts of the adrenal system which gives it time to rebuild. I used to nap like this during the day and experienced positive results. I am interested in experimenting with the IBT in order to remember my dreams and potentially experience more positive dreams although need a piece of plywood or something because I sleep on a thin mat that I can roll up during the day.
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Interesting Iguana, never heard of that one. I do inverted Yoga postures but it is only for short periods of time.
We have been using the other method of raising the head and are pleased with the results still. My spine feels more solid, stopped snoring unless I eat cooked food, my wife sleeps better.
We even carry bed risers with us when we travel and set our our hotel beds with them. Sleeping level feels very weird now.
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If you have a pillow under your head, it is still a bit higher even if your bed is slightly inclined with the head side 4 - 5 cm lower. If you like to get varicose veins, incline your bed in the other way around, with the feet side lower as promoted by Andrew… !
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If you have a pillow under your head, it is still a bit higher even if your bed is slightly inclined with the head side 4 - 5 cm lower. If you like to get varicose veins, incline your bed in the other way around, with the feet side lower as promoted by Andrew… !
Hmmm the only people I know with varicose veins lay on a flat bed. I have heard that sleeping grounded has proven effective for some people with Varicose veins.
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If you have a pillow under your head, it is still a bit higher even if your bed is slightly inclined with the head side 4 - 5 cm lower. If you like to get varicose veins, incline your bed in the other way around, with the feet side lower as promoted by Andrew… !
You are so far off the mark with this comment. Try searching images using inclined bed therapy and varicose veins as a search term. It takes around 4 weeks of IBT for varicose veins to improve, oedema is also corrected using IBT because the pressure that was forcing the veins out has been reduced to the point where fluid migrates from the skin back into the venous return. Of course you are free to ignore the photographic evidence and draw your own guesswork as a conclusion but please don't state that IBT causes varicose veins when clearly the opposite is the truth. http://s209.photobucket.com/user/Andrew_K_Fletcher/library/Varicose%20veins?sort=3&page=1 (http://s209.photobucket.com/user/Andrew_K_Fletcher/library/Varicose%20veins?sort=3&page=1)
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This last post is sounding a bit spammy, Andrew.
I agree it does sound a bit spammy but as there is no financial gain from letting people know that there are others out there experimenting with IBT, I thought it would be of interest to people reading this forum. I can remove the post if required? Andrew
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This last post is sounding a bit spammy, Andrew.
What makes it sound spammy?
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What makes it sound spammy?
It reads like an ad. I'm not saying it IS spam, just that it READS as if it were.
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I had a look at your photos, Andrew. Are they meant to prove something??
AFAIK none gets varicose veins on the head, shoulders or arms. We get it on the legs. Why? Because they are often down and the lower they are, the more pressure in their veins.
1.5 meter water column exerts a pressure of 0.15 kg/cm2.
As 1 kg/cm2 = 0.981 bar, 0.15 kg/cm2 = 0.147 bar
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I had a look at your photos, Andrew. Are they meant to prove something??
AFAIK none gets varicose veins on the head, shoulders or arms. We get it on the legs. Why? Because they are often down and the lower they are, the more pressure in their veins.
1.5 meter water column exerts a pressure of 0.15 kg/cm2.
As 1 kg/cm2 = 0.981 bar, 0.15 kg/cm2 = 0.147 bar
Using that logic, a person would get them in the feet. According to your theory, that is where the pressure is the highest.
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Of course, they happen on the ankles.
BTW, it's not my own theory, it's plain basic physics! If you have apparent veins, you can easily check that when they are down they are large, under pressure, and when they are up they get small or even become unnoticeable.
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So why doesn't everyone have them?
According to the theory of IBT the fact that you are inclined slightly (5 degrees) the valves in the legs etc are under a slight pressure when the heartbeat stops during sleep time. This ensures that they close properly as they would during the day. If they do not close properly then the blood would leak back after the heartbeat.
The valves from my understanding are a simple flapper valve.
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So why doesn't everyone have them?
Why doesn't everyone gets sick?
According to the theory of IBT the fact that you are inclined slightly (5 degrees) the valves in the legs etc are under a slight pressure when the heartbeat stops during sleep time. This ensures that they close properly as they would during the day. If they do not close properly then the blood would leak back after the heartbeat.
This doesn't make senses to me. If it were true, we would get varicose veins on the head and shoulders because these veins barely ever get a chance to be under a slight pressure.
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Stenosis CCSVI Experimental model shows blood density / postural origin . Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNJHChtHklg#ws)
The video deals with how solutes alter pressures in aqueous solution. It may help you understand how IBT works to reduce the pressure inside our veins.
Andrew
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Why doesn't everyone gets sick?
I realize I should have said "Why doesn't everyone have Varicose veins?"
However in answer to your question, from what I have noticed, some people get sick. I for one stopped snoring and when I lie on a flat mattress, I do snore again. My back and legs and ankles are stronger.
Everyone may not have this reaction. Snoring implies breathing difficulties, which would imply less oxygen to the body, which cannot be healthy. It no doubt facilitates a slow decline.
You could also say why doesn't everyone get sick from a cooked diet because not everyone does.?
This doesn't make senses to me. If it were true, we would get varicose veins on the head and shoulders because these veins barely ever get a chance to be under a slight pressure.
Your head and shoulders have a different valve version. Otherwise the blood would not flow properly. That's why when you do an inverted Yoga type posture, the blood rushes to your head. That's why when you wound your arm for instance, you raise it, so the blood will not rush out of the wound.
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If we think about blood rushing to either the feet or head for a minute and realise that our circulation is circular, blood can't rush in either direction without it affecting circulation. I guess what people refer to is a change in orthostatic pressure, which relates to measuring pressure when in standing position. If we shift from head up to head down, we change the pressure. What I am trying to say is that the only way blood could rush to the feet or head is if there was an opening for it to flow out.
However, the physiology literature states erroneously that gravity cannot influence or affect the circulation directly because it acts equally on the blood in the veins as it does on the blood in the arteries. The error occurs through ignorance of density changes in the blood that flows through the lungs and skin tissue, because each time we exhale we change the density of the capillary blood that supplies the lungs. Exhaling excretes solute free water from a liquid that contains minerals, salts and sugars. It is impossible for us to evaporate water from the blood without altering the density of said blood!
This means that the blood leaving the lungs is denser than the blood entering the lungs providing the air we breathe is dryer than the air we exhale.
Inclined Bed Therapy affects these density changes and by maintaining a slight beneficial angle to assist the movement of solutes towards the kidneys, where filtration eliminates them via the bladder, affording the less dense blood additional motility in the venous return. But as I have said before, the lymph and CSF fluids are also influenced by gravity and I believe that it is density changes and posture that drive both. Andrew K Fletcher
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Thank you Andrew. The video and your explanation were brilliant. I am not sure why I missed that previously. I was just looking up the thread when I saw it.
BTW thanks for the IBT from my wife and myself. I built our beds that way and we always take a set of bed risers when we travel.
For those who do not know, Andrew is the gentleman who popularized this treatment. His wife tested out some of the results ie. reduced heart rate, reduced breathing rate.
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I slightly incline my bed, but in the opposite (correct) way to have my legs a bit higher. When you have been sitting and standing up the whole day, it's good for the legs to have them higher as it helps blood circulation in the veins and thus rests them.
It's like when massaging: you should never massage from up to down the feet, but the opposite way.
Not sure if I agree with the (correct) ;D ;) but if it works great. I know that PPL have suspended themselves upside down for a few days straight with no apparent ill effects, so I think the body is quite adaptable.
I have an inversion table (homemade) that I periodically invert myself with, when I do my morning Yoga. I used to do about 5 minutes, but now I do maybe a minute or two.
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http://oneradionetwork.com/health/dr-richard-massey-fear-inside-job-dr-massey-answers-health-questions-july-31-2014/ (http://oneradionetwork.com/health/dr-richard-massey-fear-inside-job-dr-massey-answers-health-questions-july-31-2014/)