Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: LePatron7 on January 30, 2013, 06:21:08 am
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Hey everyone. I've been ordering raw beef fat from Miller's Organic Farm. But it's been getting less and less enjoyable. Originally I got big chuncks of yellow fat, that was soft and chewy. But the last order I got was completely red on the outside. And looked gross.
http://www.myhealthyfoodclub.com/Raw-beef-fat-per-lb_p_455.html (http://www.myhealthyfoodclub.com/Raw-beef-fat-per-lb_p_455.html)
I found a new source for GF beef fat. And this one isn't suet. It's just fat trimmings from muscle meat.
http://whiteoakpastures.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=117&zenid=d560b6ca83b4b7ab3d21957c61d77f61 (http://whiteoakpastures.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=117&zenid=d560b6ca83b4b7ab3d21957c61d77f61)
It's cheaper, and I definitely prefer the trimmings from suet.
The problem is I can't get it unfrozen. Does anyone think it would be a problem to defrost it. Then cut it into smaller pieces and refreeze it?
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Same question applies to liver, kidney and heart.
http://whiteoakpastures.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=69 (http://whiteoakpastures.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=69)
http://whiteoakpastures.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=70 (http://whiteoakpastures.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=70)
http://whiteoakpastures.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=68 (http://whiteoakpastures.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=68)
Those prices are wayyyy better than miller's. So can I defrost those organs, then refreeze them?
Millers - Heart $8.50/lb ----- WOP - $9.23/2.5lb
Millers - Kidney $6.50/lb -----WOP $9.23/2.5lb
Millers - Liver $7.50/lb ------- WOP $9.23/2.5 lbs
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ive defrosted liver and refroze it, its fine as long as you cut it while its still pretty frozen, this is actually easier as raw liver is super slipper. i am sure the same goes for the other meats, just make sure when you freeze them there is very little air between whatever you freeze it in and the meat. i am sure fat is even more suited for this treatment, i just read an article about lard washing ashore from 100's of years ago and maintaining its integrity while buried at sea:)
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Just keep fat in the fridge, you don't need to freeze it. Fat is very hardy, you could freeze and unfreeze as much as you like, but I wouldn't like that as it would be all frosty.
Organs are best frozen though, unfreezing them, cutting them up and freezing them again once is fine.
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I'm pretty sure the fat isn't as good right now from Miller's because they don't grassfeed in the winter.
This is why I wish there was a truly grassfed farm in a warmer part of the US. Slanker's doesn't interest me, because they can't grassfeed during the Texas droughts.
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I'm pretty sure the fat isn't as good right now from Miller's because they don't grassfeed in the winter.
This is why I wish there was a truly grassfed farm in a warmer part of the US. Slanker's doesn't interest me, because they can't grassfeed during the Texas droughts.
Agreed. I contacted White Oaks Pastures and they told me they grass feed during the winter with seasonal grassed that keep growing, and they supplement with a little hay.
Just keep fat in the fridge, you don't need to freeze it. Fat is very hardy, you could freeze and unfreeze as much as you like, but I wouldn't like that as it would be all frosty.
The fat gets real smelly. I used to keep Miller's fat in multiple mason jars for over a week in the fridge and they'd stink. My dad's really against stinky foods, and personally I don't like them.
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New question.
Can you eat to many organs? Can you eat to much brain? Liver? Kidney? Heart?
I ask because I was looking up the nutrition analysis of each because I'd like to eat A LOT of these organs since they're so cheap. But I can't help but feel I'd get vitamin/mineral toxicity if I did that. For example 4 oz of kidney has like 300% selenium. Liver 1,000% vitamin a. Brain 1,200% cholesterol.
I ate 5.6 oz of brain monday. Wednesday (today) I ate another 4. I had the shits later in the afternoon. Is it unrelated to the cholesterol? i also had bits of what looked like brain in my stool.
I know I've seen posts from TylerDurden saying when he eats to much of, for example, liver. He poops it out and doesn't absorb it to prevent toxicity.
I like to think to much of anything is bad. Variety is important.
Your opinions?
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I like to think to much of anything is bad. Variety is important.
Your opinions?
Of course! I’ve repeated it several times in different ways over the years on this forum. That’s why the instinctive control is crucial, otherwise you can’t know how much of a particular foodstuff you personally and currently need.
With unprocessed raw paleo foods, this adjustment is very precise.
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I have cut right down on liver now after seeing that my blood ferritin was 332 ug/l. I was eating like 300-500g or so almost every day for a while, because it's cheap and had nothing else at the time.
Nowadays I'm eating a lot of heart. I ate about 4 kilos in 5days. I should probably give heart a break for a while too because I'm bound to be overdosing on something that it contains. Havn't had kidney in ages...
I think plain old muscle meat is more important than we realize, even if it's just to prevent overdosing on certain vits and minerals that are concentrated in organ-meat that we would otherwise be eating.
Today I'm picking up 10 kg of muscle meat from konik horse and highland cattle. 8)
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I have cut right down on liver now after seeing that my blood ferritin was 332 ug/l. I was eating like 300-500g or so almost every day for a while, because it's cheap and had nothing else at the time.
Woah. Isn't 300-500 g like 10-17 oz? And u were eating that per day?
Also, isn't 332 ug/l in the healthy range?
"For men, levels between 24 and 336 nanograms per milliliter are normal"
http://www.livestrong.com/article/396880-healthy-ferritin-levels/ (http://www.livestrong.com/article/396880-healthy-ferritin-levels/)
I'm worried that eating to much beef is bad. Doesn't beef have TONS of iron? I'd be eating beef organs, some beef muscle meat, some lamb, buffalo and salmon.
For organs, maybe I can change between lamb and beef organs.
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Of course! I’ve repeated it several times in different ways over the years on this forum. That’s why the instinctive control is crucial, otherwise you can’t know how much of a particular foodstuff you personally and currently need.
With unprocessed raw paleo foods, this adjustment is very precise.
variety and moderation! i think you will know when you have had to much, if you even think for a moment, man i am eating too much......back off it for a meal, a day, a week. see how it tastes after that or if you even think about eating it in that time. refine your instincts! for organ meats, i get a distinct STOP, especially liver. actually with red meats in general, i take long periods away from eating red meat.
i know when i wasnt absorbing food as well i would eat up to a pound of liver a day plus red muscle meat for weeks. i think there are enough competing nutrients, and also that the body doesnt necessarily store up every thing you digest, as to not worry too bad about it as long as it still tastes appealing and you are feeling well.
remember that as the body heals the diet is constantly shifting. it will change how it reacts to foods as deficiencies become less dramatic, digestion and absorption should become consistently easier, energy and nutrition from foods should feel more readily available. i think there is a bit of personal refinement! and have found all of the above to be true during my years experimenting with this way of eating.
one thing that did help that isnt exactly instinctual was to log all my meals into "fitday.com" just to check out my overall nutrient profile. i definitely saw where i was getting a lot more protein then i need and that i could up my fat and lower my intake of everything else (carbs going waywayway down, under 50g if i can) and still have as much energy, if not more. i dont think i ever realized just how much protein is in muscle meats and how large my servings actually were.
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Thanks for the links ;D
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Speaking of raw beef fat. I just got an order from White Oak Pastures. Their raw beef fat is nothing like Miller's.
The beef fat from WOP melts in my hand, literally I touch it and it starts melting. If I left it out of the fridge for to long it would melt. Signifying more polyunsaturated fat.
Miller's fat is typically very hard, and doesn't melt when I touch it. The WOP fat if I pressed on it it would budge.
Overall satisfied.
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I just ate some of the WOP beef fat. It was incredible.
I had it with 4 oz salmon and 4 oz liver. I finished the beef fat first, salmon second, and saved some of the liver for later. I didn't need any water to get the fat down. It was great.
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Is there a special way of eating the raw beef fat? I have tried bigger portions of it right off the meat and it tasted kind of funny. It wasn't as delicious as the actual meat? Is there some kind of process you do to it or is it just an acquired taste that comes with time?
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Raw fat from a fatty meat, ie. beef chuck roast or lamb shoulder tastes great to me.
Fat trimmings, depending on the source, can be either really tasty and great or really bad.
The worst fats I've gotten have been chalky in texture. Left chalky residue when I'd cut it. And I didn't enjoy eating. I believe it was suet.
The best fat I've ever had was claimed to be trimmings from the muscle meats. It melted when I touched it or left it out at room temperature. Was chewy like fat from fatty cuts of meat. And was really good.
You'll have to experiment with fat from various sources to see which one you like best.
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Yeah the one I just tried the other day was very chalky. I'll have to look for better sources.
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Yeah the one I just tried the other day was very chalky. I'll have to look for better sources.
Check with the sources you already have if they have fat from the muscles. I THINK that's the best fat.
If that doesn't work then keep looking. But make sure you specifically ask for the fat from the muscle meat, not what covers the organs.
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Is there a special way of eating the raw beef fat? I have tried bigger portions of it right off the meat and it tasted kind of funny. It wasn't as delicious as the actual meat? Is there some kind of process you do to it or is it just an acquired taste that comes with time?
The process is called rendering, and purpose of that is to be rid of the indigestible connective tissue which might be what you are tasting. The EFAs are unchanged if you keep heat below 300F.
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The process is called rendering, and purpose of that is to be rid of the indigestible connective tissue which might be what you are tasting. The EFAs are unchanged if you keep heat below 300F.
Dude, you're going to need to show some studies if you want to keep claiming that. Otherwise, we're just going to delete your posts.
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I find a seasonal difference in the flavor of backfat from beef and lamb. Summer/fall fat is insanely good. Winter fat is so-so. I just chew it and let the fat soften up in my mouth. Then I swallow the wad that's left over. I buy my meat untrimmed, so the fat is on the meat. In addition, I buy the trimmings from a friendly butcher. I find that refrigeration is optional - nothing bad happens to fat the I leave at room temperature (in a dry, moderate climate).
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Dude, you're going to need to show some studies if you want to keep claiming that. Otherwise, we're just going to delete your posts.
The experience of people, including members here supports what I posted. That's a lot better than junk "science".
Rather than deleting my posts, how about you just ban me again?
This time, make it permanent.
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The experience of people, including members here supports what I posted. That's a lot better than junk "science".
Rather than deleting my posts, how about you just ban me again?
This time, make it permanent.
Look, I don't care if you find pemmican more convenient than fresh meat. That's not what this diet is about. Granted, it's nice to never have to clean a stove, or wash cooked grease off dishes/pots/pans, but convenience is not the point.
Also, if you really have trouble digesting the connective tissue in fat, then there are other ways besides high-heat cooking to address that problem.
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Look, I don't care if you find pemmican more convenient than fresh meat. That's not what this diet is about. Granted, it's nice to never have to clean a stove, or wash cooked grease off dishes/pots/pans, but convenience is not the point.
Also, if you really have trouble digesting the connective tissue in fat, then there are other ways besides high-heat cooking to address that problem.
Wherever did you get the idea that this was about convenience?
It is about healing, and about what really works for everyone who has ever honestly tried it.
There is a recent post by someone who really needs to do rzc, but you have so intimidated people here that nobody dares mention the obvious answer to her problem. Pemmican.
Have you no heart?
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A lot of people have complained about pemmican having a harmful effect on their health, so it is absurd to pretend that it is healthy. More to the point, if whatever you claim is actually true, then you are one of the very, very few people for whom raw fresh meat doesn't work, suggesting that you have some rare condition or whatever.
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It is about healing, and about what really works for everyone who has ever honestly tried it.
There is a recent post by someone who really needs to do rzc, but you have so intimidated people here that nobody dares mention the obvious answer to her problem. Pemmican.
William, do you believe that cooked fats are better than raw fats? Or do you just assume that cooked fats are as good as raw fats in the sense that they are not "damaged" or harmful at all?
Löwenherz
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Wherever did you get the idea that this was about convenience?
It is about healing, and about what really works for everyone who has ever honestly tried it.
There is a recent post by someone who really needs to do rzc, but you have so intimidated people here that nobody dares mention the obvious answer to her problem. Pemmican.
Have you no heart?
It's about convenience because you're refusing to let people help you work to find a way to digest your fat and meat raw. If you want to post about how great your cooked pemmican diet is, then you can go to a cooked zero-carb forum and do that. The fact that you are trolling us just mystifies me.
I'm not saying you should automatically switch to raw meat and fat. I just think you should let us help you find a way to digest it, and then try it all-raw for a month or two. If you honestly don't notice a difference in your health, then no big deal.
And pemmican is not the only way to do zero-carb. What's the point of pretending that it is?
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William, do you believe that cooked fats are better than raw fats? Or do you just assume that cooked fats are as good as raw fats in the sense that they are not "damaged" or harmful at all?
Löwenherz
A very wise man once said "Before you would speak with me, let us define our terms".
Also: http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/journals/lex's-journal/ (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/journals/lex's-journal/)
So I defined my terms in a post on 26/3, and did a poor job, so here's another attempt at some definitions:
Define tallow: practically pure Essential Fatty Acids.
Define render: separate fatty acids from indigestible connective tissue and water.
Define fat: combined fatty acids and INDIGESTIBLE PROTEINS and water.
If you can do better, please do so. There is no copyright on truth.
To answer your question:"do you believe that cooked fats are better than raw fats? ", no.
I believe things after testing for truth; if it passes I will believe it until something better is perceived.
I did test as whether cooked fat is edible, and it made me sick, that's why I do not believe it to be better.
To answer the second question:"do you just assume that cooked fats are as good as raw fats in the sense that they are not "damaged" or harmful at all?"
I have never made such an assumption.
If you note the definition, you can see that cooked fat contains cooked protein which started out being waste and after cooking is poisonous to some of us, including me.
To belabour the point which seems to have confused you, cooked fat is not tallow, never was, never can be.
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It's about convenience because you're refusing to let people help you work to find a way to digest your fat and meat raw. If you want to post about how great your cooked pemmican diet is, then you can go to a cooked zero-carb forum and do that. The fact that you are trolling us just mystifies me.
I'm not saying you should automatically switch to raw meat and fat. I just think you should let us help you find a way to digest it, and then try it all-raw for a month or two. If you honestly don't notice a difference in your health, then no big deal.
And pemmican is not the only way to do zero-carb. What's the point of pretending that it is?
You seem to be confused about what is cooked. If you read the definitions I've given in the post above to Löwenherz, I hope that you can understand that I do not eat cooked anything.
If you do not agree that the definitions are accurate, please correct them.
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Define tallow: practically pure Essential Fatty Acids.
Define render: separate fatty acids from indigestible connective tissue and water.
Define fat: combined fatty acids and INDIGESTIBLE PROTEINS and water.
Your definitions are self-serving. Let's start with render, which (when applied to fats) means to separate by melting. To melt, in turn means to become liquified by heat. To cook means to prepare food by heating. Raw means uncooked.
I don't really want to join a discussion about cooking, heating, melting, and rendering. I'm just saying.
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William, why don't you just post in a cooked zero-carb forum? Clearly you will not convert us, and clearly you are not interested in experimenting with non-rendered fat. People come here to experiment with and learn about a diet that doesn't include rendered fat. Please respect that.
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Your definitions are self-serving. Let's start with render, which (when applied to fats) means to separate by melting. To melt, in turn means to become liquified by heat. To cook means to prepare food by heating. Raw means uncooked.
I don't really want to join a discussion about cooking, heating, melting, and rendering. I'm just saying.
If they are not true, please do us all some good by showing where I have erred.
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William, why don't you just post in a cooked zero-carb forum? Clearly you will not convert us, and clearly you are not interested in experimenting with non-rendered fat. People come here to experiment with and learn about a diet that doesn't include rendered fat. Please respect that.
I have been using only "non-rendered fat" for a long time. It's called butter. Faute de mieux.
People come here for divers reasons, most for help with healing, a few to troll.
I've tried to help dispell your confusion, but evidently failed. I sincerely regret that, but here's something that occurred to me recently: the plant-source neolithic foods that you eat have a known psychotropic effect, so if you were to stop eating those in favour of a true paleolithic diet, you should then be able to know the difference between cooked indigestible proteins (in cooked fat) and EFAs identical to those that make up the cell walls of a healthy body (tallow).
I realize that this is hard to do, having been as carbohydrate-addicted as you, but I can assure you that the benefits are well worth it. Someone here has noted "the constant mild euphoria" which always comes from a raw zero carbohydrate diet. That's only one of the benefits.
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I have been using only "non-rendered fat" for a long time. It's called butter. Faute de mieux.
People come here for divers reasons, most for help with healing, a few to troll.
I've tried to help dispell your confusion, but evidently failed. I sincerely regret that, but here's something that occurred to me recently: the plant-source neolithic foods that you eat have a known psychotropic effect, so if you were to stop eating those in favour of a true paleolithic diet, you should then be able to know the difference between cooked indigestible proteins (in cooked fat) and EFAs identical to those that make up the cell walls of a healthy body (tallow).
I realize that this is hard to do, having been as carbohydrate-addicted as you, but I can assure you that the benefits are well worth it. Someone here has noted "the constant mild euphoria" which always comes from a raw zero carbohydrate diet. That's only one of the benefits.
I am with you on this William.
A fat burning human body is a must in this modern word, full of totally unnatural EMF. To live in the fat burning pathway is a important protection factor. We who do that can tell the difference. The Sugar burning pathway is a big mistake faced with today's issues... -X
For the one that do not believe it, go and do the research yourself, you will soon see.
The modern word is why we cannot go back and think we must live like gorillas or such as many rawfooders tend to think, it is a different word today because of many reasons.
We need to take everything in account or we will always feel confused...
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If they are not true, please do us all some good by showing where I have erred.
Okay... your error is by omission, in that you left out the "melting by heat" portion of the definition of to render.
On another note, since the connective tissue is what you dislike about raw fat, why not chew the fat and spit out the gristle?
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Okay... your error is by omission, in that you left out the "melting by heat" portion of the definition of to render.
OK, fair enough though it seems like nitpicking, I amend the definition here, as I cannot change the original post:
Define render: separate fatty acids from indigestible connective tissue and water by either heat or centrifuge.
On another note, since the connective tissue is what you dislike about raw fat, why not chew the fat and spit out the gristle?
1- Impossible, can only separate by heat or centrifuge. It's not gristle.
2- I don't like the taste. Note the variation in taste reported by so many here. Reason unknown, but I suspect lying farmers/butchers as the what the animal ate.