Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: brazaov on February 13, 2013, 05:34:56 pm
-
I've started a 30-Day raw paleo experiment on Monday. My starting weight was at 61.9kg (normal for my height), but I have since gone down to 61.5kg on Tuesday and 60.9 today. All in all, then, I've lost 1kg (2.2lbs, I think) in two days. Problem is: I didn't want to lose weight when I started, and I still don't want to. Is this something everyone goes through that eventually stops? If I keep losing weight at this rate, I have about 4 months till I'm completely gone xD.
I'm working out three times a week (Mo, Wed, Fri) doing the hundrepushups, twohundredsquats and twentypullups programs as well as running twice a week (right now I'll be doing 8km/12km runs; gonna start doing 18kms in two weeks and will run a half-marathon in 6 weeks). How can I keep this workout load and gain weight instead of losing it?
I've also been trying to eat increasingly more calories, but it's kind of hard... I eat until I am satisfied, and I haven't really been hungry these past few days... I've also been trying to eat more fat by having eggs, grated coconut and duck's legs. What more can I do?
-
I've started a 30-Day raw paleo experiment on Monday. My starting weight was at 61.9kg (normal for my height), but I have since gone down to 61.5kg on Tuesday and 60.9 today. All in all, then, I've lost 1kg (2.2lbs, I think) in two days. Problem is: I didn't want to lose weight when I started, and I still don't want to. Is this something everyone goes through that eventually stops?
When one stops eating the heavy carb load of sugars, grains, and legumes in any combination, there is a shedding of excess water weight. This has a beneficial effect on your physique. Depending on your previous eating habits, there can be a water weight loss as high as 6-10 pounds (but usually not that much).
Also, you may need to do some new learning about how much to eat, and what portions should come from each macronutrient. There is a lot of useful information in various threads on this forum that should help you get the results you want.
-
drink a ton of water and broth, use seaweeds liberally if they fit your tastes, eat fat.
-
Thanks both of you for your answers. I have another question, though. I'm 17 and I still live with my mother, so she can stop my experiment anytime (if she thinks I'm losing too much weight, for example). How do I explain to her that early weight loss is normal?
-
I'd recommend against your regimen. That sounds like heavy chronic cardio, basically. Its over-training, and that means death to gains.
You should look into Mark Sissons' way of training. It emphasizes high intensity work for a short amount of time with long periods of rest and low areobic activity. Its much easier on your body, yet provides an INCREDIBLE stimulus.
What you're doing (or going to do) is actually going to, in the end, produce the opposite of the results that you want. Stimulating and taxing your body that often, for that long and that much just down regulates all the genes you want up-regulated because it gets lost in the madness. Your body needs TONS of rest, with only short, frequent, INTENSE bursts of energy. Doing things this way will allow you to do everything you currently desire to be able to do, except better than you normally would've achieved.
Not doing things this way is just going to eat away at your body.
I'd recommend only 1-2 str training workouts every 7-10 days, and the same amount of sprint sessions. This is all you need to be super fit and healthy, as long as you eat nutritiously and fairly low carb. Its the intensity of the moment that matters, not the accrued "miles" of work you put in. That only hurts you. That amount of running, especially, is quite horrible.
-
I'm with barefoot instincto. That sounds like a lot of over training. You could essentially get your cardio in from short bouts of high intensity training. Besides, too much running will wreak havoc on our knees later on in life. Short, quick sprint sessions and true high intensity workouts are all you really need 1-2 times a week if your diet is in check.
-
Thanks both of you for your answers. I have another question, though. I'm 17 and I still live with my mother, so she can stop my experiment anytime (if she thinks I'm losing too much weight, for example). How do I explain to her that early weight loss is normal?
Back to your mom - you would probably be the best judge of how to explain things to her. Does she need verification from books? from videos? from an old lady like me?
Just remember that most people have been brainwashed by half-truths and untruths about diet and health. Eating as our ancestors did makes irrefutably good sense. Ancestral health was far superior to our health today. The modern-day diseases are largely due to inappropriate eating patterns. A great video called The Perfect Human Diet might be a good place to start.
-
@Barefoot instincto,
So you're saying I could run a half-marathon in a few weeks by just sprinting once a week? Maybe if I did that and added one run (say 12km slowly the first two weeks, then 18km) per week at a 'slow' pace like more than 6min/km (9.7min/mile)? Thing is, I want to complete the half-marathon in less than two hours, so when the time comes, I'll have to run at a pace of less than 6 min/km. After that I'll stop the long distance running, so it's not going to hurt me long term, but I really want to do this.
And about the training programs: instead of doing them 3 times a week I could do them on Mondays and Thursdays only and skip the second day of each week. What do you think? Right now I'm on week one and it's not been that hard.
If I follow what I said above, the resulting week would look something like this:
Monday: Day 1 of hundredpushups, twohundredsquats, twenty pull-ups
Tuesday: Run 12km at a pace of 10km/hour (6min/km)
Wednesday: Rest
Thursday: Day 3 of workout programs
Friday: Sprint (6 to 8 times 50 meters at near-maximum speed)
Saturday: Rest
Sunday: Rest
On resting days I could try to make sure that I walk more than usual or maybe I'll swim a few slow laps or something (I should swim to correct a minor scoliosis). Does that sound good?
-
I had the same problem when I started raw paleo. I got so skinny I looked sick.
I had already lost a ton of weight (80 pounds) and was comfortable at the weight I was thanks to The Specific Carbohydrate DIet.
But when I started raw paleo I got extremely thin. So thin people would tell me I need to stop trying to lose weight, and I look sick. It actually (now that I think about it), probably made some people think I was obsessed with losing weight. I was eating a ridiculously strict diet, and everyone thought it was to lose weight. Not to be healthier. Go figure (Americans... {no offense}).
Any way. Looking back now, I realize my problem was not getting enough fat, protein and calories.
You sound like you're very active. So you probably need more calories than the average person.
I recommend an app on your phone, or online that can track calories consumed (food) and calories burned (exercise).
If I had tracked how many calories I was eating back then.. Well I was eating about 120 grams of carbs. And like 3 5-6 oz servings of meat. Realistically my calorie consumption was probably under 1300.
I suggest getting a hold of good fat sources. Look for places that sell raw beef fat, or suet. Most places that sell GF beef will also sell GF beef fat or suet.
Here's the nutrition analysis for 1 oz of beef fat and 1 oz of suet.
Suet - http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3478/2 (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3478/2)
1 oz = 239 calories
Raw beef fat - http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3203/2 (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3203/2)
1 oz = 189 calories
Using suet or raw beef fat, you can EASILY reach the amount of calories you need daily.
But don't underestimate the amount of protein you need, you're exercising a lot.
Here's a protein calculator that will factor in your height, weight, types and intensity of exercise.
http://www.gnclivewell.com/proteinnumber/ (http://www.gnclivewell.com/proteinnumber/)
Calculate your calories starting with getting the right amount of protein. Then factor in carbs. I personally think you need carbs with all the exercise you're doing, even though many here are anti-carb. Then get the rest of your calories from fat.
Using fitday, or one of those programs I mentioned that track calories will help you.
-
I'm with barefoot instincto. That sounds like a lot of over training. You could essentially get your cardio in from short bouts of high intensity training. Besides, too much running will wreak havoc on our knees later on in life. Short, quick sprint sessions and true high intensity workouts are all you really need 1-2 times a week if your diet is in check.
I second that. HIIT or High Intensity Interval Training is a million times better than slow long cardio. If you google HIIT benefits you'll find a million articles supporting it.
-
OK, so I bought raw pork lard (or suet, I'm not sure. Anyway, it's just fat). Imma add it to my meals, especially if I eat lean meats like chicken breast. I also bought bone marrow (tried it today... yum!). I'm probably going to start drinking green smoothies in the morning to increase my stomach acid production so I'm better able to digest protein and stuff, plus the extra fruit will give me more calories. If I'm hungry between meals I'll try to eat some raw eggs, though they always give me a funny feeling in the stomach -- maybe I'm just not used to them yet.
As I said before, I'll also cut down a bit on my workouts and focus more on really slow stuff like walking and high intensity stuff like the push-ups and sprinting. This morning I'd lost 'only' 200g relative to yesterday morning, so I think I'm starting to get the fat loss under control. I'm expecting to start maintaining or even gaining weight soon.
Thanks for all your help!
-
OK, so I bought raw pork lard (or suet, I'm not sure. Anyway, it's just fat).
Good job on getting the fat.
But remember that what the animal ate dictates how good the product is. From HCA's, fatty acid profile, bateria, etc.
Pork fat is typically a bad option as most pigs are fed horrible diets.
Grass fed beef fat/suet, buffalo/lamb/goat fat if you can find it is best.
Marrow bones from GF animals is also a good option for fat.
-
Pork fat is typically a bad option as most pigs are fed horrible diets.
I'm aware of that, so all the meat, fat, etc I get comes from an organic farm and is fed their natural diet. The fish I eat is either wild-caught of from 'good' fish farms, where the fish are grown in the ocean and not in an unnatural tank.
Btw, I'm having some salmon tomorrow for lunch. Would you recommend adding a bit of that pork fat to it? Just wondering cus though the salmon is fatty, it's not such a big portion.
-
Btw, I'm having some salmon tomorrow for lunch. Would you recommend adding a bit of that pork fat to it? Just wondering cus though the salmon is fatty, it's not such a big portion.
Yes. Add pork fat to everything. Make sure you get enough protein though, again you're very athletic.
Tracking your calories would be really helpful in this regard. I have a great app on my phone. I can even put "raw beef fat" and raw salmon and raw everything. I think it's pretty cool.
I'm aware of that, so all the meat, fat, etc I get comes from an organic farm and is fed their natural diet.
Organic for plant foods is typically pretty good.
But organic for animal foods can mean very little. For example, I've seen organic beef. Sure, it's not given any antibiotics or hormones. But it's still fed on mainly corn and soy which makes it a bad product.
I am curious though. What are those pigs fed? What's their natural diet?
The best pork I've ever seen is from Miller's. The cows are fed raw milk from cows.
-
Organic for plant foods is typically pretty good.
But organic for animal foods can mean very little.
Well, I said 'organic' for lack of a better word. I live in Portugal and here we say 'biológico', which literally means 'biological'. For meat, this means it's free-range and grassfed (in the case of ruminants). I'm not sure what the pigs are fed, and unfortunately the website of the farm I buy them from is currently shut down for maintenance. I do, however, trust that they are healthy. I'm also storing the fat in the fridge with salt, which should kill any existing or newcoming parasites and bacteria (right?) -- I wash the salt off before eating it.
-
I'm also storing the fat in the fridge with salt, which should kill any existing or newcoming parasites and bacteria (right?) -- I wash the salt off before eating it.
Well.. I've heard pigs don't typically have parasites in the fat. But it's typically not the best option, and I know a lot of people on the forum don't eat pork raw.
You could also freeze the fat after having cut it up into bite size pieces. That would kill parasites (after 14 says) and also keep the fat from getting stinky. Fat freezes very well, and once defrosted you literally can't tell the difference between the frozen and fresh fat. At least I can't.
Well, I said 'organic' for lack of a better word. I live in Portugal and here we say 'biológico', which literally means 'biological'. For meat, this means it's free-range and grassfed (in the case of ruminants).
That's great you live somewhere where healthy animal foods is the norm, and not the exception. Here in the U.S. most of the animal foods are low quality.
I'm not sure what the pigs are fed, and unfortunately the website of the farm I buy them from is currently shut down for maintenance.
I think the pork you're getting is likely much better than most animal foods in the U.S. But it would still be a good idea to find out what they're eating.
I'd like to see how other members weigh in. I'm just not used to pork fat (mainly because I can't find a truly good source).
-
@Barefoot instincto,
So you're saying I could run a half-marathon in a few weeks by just sprinting once a week? Maybe if I did that and added one run (say 12km slowly the first two weeks, then 18km) per week at a 'slow' pace like more than 6min/km (9.7min/mile)? Thing is, I want to complete the half-marathon in less than two hours, so when the time comes, I'll have to run at a pace of less than 6 min/km. After that I'll stop the long distance running, so it's not going to hurt me long term, but I really want to do this.
And about the training programs: instead of doing them 3 times a week I could do them on Mondays and Thursdays only and skip the second day of each week. What do you think? Right now I'm on week one and it's not been that hard.
If I follow what I said above, the resulting week would look something like this:
Monday: Day 1 of hundredpushups, twohundredsquats, twenty pull-ups
Tuesday: Run 12km at a pace of 10km/hour (6min/km)
Wednesday: Rest
Thursday: Day 3 of workout programs
Friday: Sprint (6 to 8 times 50 meters at near-maximum speed)
Saturday: Rest
Sunday: Rest
On resting days I could try to make sure that I walk more than usual or maybe I'll swim a few slow laps or something (I should swim to correct a minor scoliosis). Does that sound good?
I can't give you a time, your body and your efforts will determine that. All I'm saying is that doing things this way, is better than that way. Sure, you can speed your way to your goals if you do things another way, but in the end its going to be less effective and cost your body resources. Distance running is not necessary to be able to run long distance. Sprinting has been shown to produce much greater results, in all areas compared to steady state cardio. Going much slower instead won't change that fact.
Although, short 1-3 km runs a couple times a week, if you're conditioned already to handle them well, probably wouldn't be a problem. 8 km's for conditioning once a week probably wouldn't hurt. In the end, your body should be your guide. Don't ever get sucked too far into chronic cardio (in any form, including strength training). It prevents rejuvenation.
I'm no expert, but the principles seem pretty solid and easy to follow. I differ you to marksdailyapple, where you can search a massive amount of archives. Likely has lots of running advice for you, better than what I can supply with my limited knowledge. To me, your new schedule seems much better.
But yes, as you did say, your efforts for now are more short term so this seems pretty good to me. Longer term though, you're going to want to implement these suggestions, from which you'll accrue massive health. :)
On resting days, definitely do lots of walking and low aerobic activity! This is the perfect compliment to maximizing gains.
-
I'm aware of that, so all the meat, fat, etc I get comes from an organic farm and is fed their natural diet. The fish I eat is either wild-caught of from 'good' fish farms, where the fish are grown in the ocean and not in an unnatural tank.
Btw, I'm having some salmon tomorrow for lunch.
There's no such such thing as 'healthy' farmed salmon. I wouldn't eat it on any kind of a regular basis. Once in a while probably won't make a big difference.
-
There's no such such thing as 'healthy' farmed salmon. I wouldn't eat it on any kind of a regular basis. Once in a while probably won't make a big difference.
I used to think that until someone here pointed out a youtube video of a fish-farmer using a pond and using some incredible biorganic methods to raise the fish in an ultra-healthy way. Granted, though, most farmed fish are extremely unhealthy even if not raised in cages.
-
The salmon in the Faroe Islands appear to be raised in excellent conditions: http://salmon-from-the-faroe-islands.com/short+film.html. (http://salmon-from-the-faroe-islands.com/short+film.html.) I had some recently at a local Pan-Asian restaurant, and it tasted great.
-
The salmon in the Faroe Islands appear to be raised in excellent conditions: http://salmon-from-the-faroe-islands.com/short+film.html. (http://salmon-from-the-faroe-islands.com/short+film.html.) I had some recently at a local Pan-Asian restaurant, and it tasted great.
I looked around at that website and saw no mention of what the Faroe Island farmed salmon are fed. All that glitter about no antibiotics and pristine waters sounds like a good cover-up for the major downside of farmed salmon: feedlot mentality. IMO, all that hype about low mortality of the salmon at the farm is just industry jargon for the fact that salmon must be selectively bred to thrive on vegetable or fish-meal diets.
-
I looked around at that website and saw no mention of what the Faroe Island farmed salmon are fed. All that glitter about no antibiotics and pristine waters sounds like a good cover-up for the major downside of farmed salmon: feedlot mentality. IMO, all that hype about low mortality of the salmon at the farm is just industry jargon for the fact that salmon must be selectively bred to thrive on vegetable or fish-meal diets.
Yeah, I care less about pristine waters than I do about what they are FED.
-
Yeah, I saw detail on the feeding system, but they're oddly silent on what they eat. I know their pink flesh isn't due to the artificial dyes that are common in farmed salmon, so the feed must resemble a wild diet to some degree.
...Well, I did a further search, and I found a similar operation in New Zealand that uses "fish meal and fish oil from South American oceanic species (jack mackerel, anchovy and sardines)," but unfortunately, also "land-based proteins and oils (from chickens as well as soybean products)." Soybeans definitely not ideal. I didn't find anything on the Faroe Islands stuff.
-
Just some thoughts from my own experience.
When I first started raw paleo (after SAD and 6 months vegan) I ate a lot of fat and still lost weight. Particularly I was eating about 1 lb of meat and 1/3-1/2 lb of fat (which is about 2000+ calories). I was also underweight at the time (118lbs | 5'8'' | male | 23) so I was expecting easy gains.
Everyone is different when they start eating this way. And I would not recommend plowing forward with your "ideal" diet if you continue losing weight. Initial loses from most dietary changes are due to decreased sodium intake, resulting in water loss, and less food going undigested and sitting in your gut (also drawing in water). After this period, you should be very critical of weight loss. It suggests you are not digesting/utilizing the calories you are eating.
I would be open minded and keep everything as an option (even carbs, and even less accepted in this community--cooked starches). Your goal, if you are like most people here, should be to go low carb and fully raw, but getting keto-adapted is different for everyone. Exercise seems to help speed up the process in most cases.
The studies I have read on this suggest it takes at least a few months after adopting a ketogentic diet for the body to adapt and performance to reach peak levels agains. These studies were done on athletes (very small samples, like < 20 people) and used cooked diets. I also remember reading posts on the zero carb part of this forum about how it only took 1 or 2 weeks for some people.