Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Joy2012 on February 18, 2013, 02:12:41 pm
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http://marshfieldceliac.weebly.com/uploads/2/5/5/7/2557865/ada_ages_in_food_reduction1.pdf (http://marshfieldceliac.weebly.com/uploads/2/5/5/7/2557865/ada_ages_in_food_reduction1.pdf)
Many on this forum promote a high-fat diet. Is fat really good for health and anti-aging?
Any food item which contains some fat has an extremely high amount of AGEs. Fresh fruit and almost-fat-free vegetables (when not cooked with fat) contain very low AGEs.
Following is a sample of AGE contents in foods (KU per 100 grams) taken from the above website. From this sample it can be seen: Yes cooking increases AGEs, but food items containing some fat are the most AGE-rich food, even in their raw state.
Apple (AGE content is 13)
Avocado (1577)
Banana (9)
Cantaloupe (20)
Dates (60)
Carrots (10)
Celery (43)
Cucumber (31)
Olives (1670)
Onion (36)
Tomato (23)
Grilled vegetables (broccoli, carrots, celery) (226)
Raw beef (707)
Roast beef (6071)
Broiled beef steak (7479)
Raw pork chop (1188)
Pan fried pork chop (4752)
Raw lamb (826)
Broiled lamb leg (1218)
Raw chicken breast (769)
Chicken breast boiled with lemon (1123)
Deep fried chicken breast (9722)
Raw trout (783)
Raw shrimp (1003)
Salmon poached for 7 minutes (1801)
Poached eggs (90)
Omelet (olive oil, low heat) (339)
Butter (23340)
Parmesan cheese (16900)
Philadelphia cream cheese (10883)
Brie cheese (5597)
Mozzarella cheese (1677)
Raw cashews (2723)
Raw pumpkin seeds (1853)
Raw sunflower seeds (2510)
Broiled beef frankfurter (11270)
Mayonnaise (9400)
Potato chips (2883)
Extra virgin olive oil (10040)
Vinegar (40)
Bagel, small, Lender’s (133)
Bagel, large (107)
Biscuit (Mc Donald’sd) (1,470)
Bread, whole wheat, slice, toasted, slice, (Rockland Bakery) (137)
Croissant, butter (Starbucks, Seattle, WA) (1,113)
Roll, dinner, inside (23)
Roll, dinner, outside 77
Potato, white, boiled 25 min (17 )
Potato, white, roasted 45 min, with 5 mL oil/servingc (218)
Potato, white, french fries (McDonald’sd) (1,522)
Coconut cream, Coco Goya cream of coconut (Goya, Secaucus, NJ) (933)
Coconut milk, leche de coco, (Goya) (307)
Coconut, Baker’s Angel Flake, sweetened (Kraft) (590)
Shrimp, fried, breaded (take out) (4,328)
Shrimp, marinated rawb (1,003)
Shrimp, marinated, grilled on BBQb (2,089)
Tuna, broiled, with soy, 10 min (5,113)
Tuna, broiled, with vinegar dressing (5,150)
Tuna, fresh, baked, 25 min (919)
Tuna, loaf (chunk light in recipe), baked 40 min (590)
Tuna, canned, chunk light, w/water (452)
Tuna, canned, white, albacore, w/oil (1,740)
"The current dAGE database demonstrates that a significantly
reduced intake of dAGEs can be achieved by
increasing the consumption of fish, legumes, low-fat milk
products, vegetables, fruits, and whole grains and by
reducing intake of solid fats, fatty meats, full-fat dairy
products, and highly processed foods. These guidelines
are consistent with recommendations by organizations
such as the American Heart Association (42), the American
Institute for Cancer Research (43), and the American
Diabetes Association (44)." (taken from the above website)
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Because AGEs are involved in even the slightest inflammation, they are found in tiny amounts in even the healthiest foods. They will be found in much higher amounts in foods raised in an unhealthy way, such as grainfed meats, so we really need to know if the foods were raised via intensive farming etc. Cooking, of course, makes things even worse re AGE levels.
The human body, incidentally, does have the ability to get rid of the very small amounts of AGEs gained via a very healthy diet, but can't handle a lot of them.
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Tyler, Thanks for your response.
I think TUNA is always wild-caught. So we could look at TUNA as an example.
Tuna, fresh, baked, 25 min (919)
Tuna, loaf (chunk light in recipe), baked 40 min (590)
Tuna, canned, chunk light, w/water (452)
Tuna, canned, white, albacore, w/oil (1,740)
Chunk light Tuna has less fat than "fresh tuna" (which I suppose means whole tuna), right? So it has less AGEs than "fresh tuna." Still, Tuna's AGE is far more than fat-free fruit and vegetables.
I would suppose that the fruit and vegetables on this AGE list are common supermarket ones, i.e., "raised via intensive farming." So I think it is fair to compare the fruit/vegetables with the meats/seafood on this AGE list.
I am not trying to pick bones. I really want to find out the answer concerng fat. After transferring from a mostly-vegan little-fat diet to a RP diet of much fat(mostly coconut oil but also animal fat and sesame seeds/walnuts) and animal protein for a year, I think I age more. First wrinkles appear on my forehead. :( Of course I am one year older than I was. But I never noticed that one year could age me so much. So I would like to try to find out whether much fat is really good.
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Our alimentary instinct limits the amount of fat we can eat and regulates it properly according to our individual and momentary needs. ;)
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Actually, tuna is increasingly farmed.
It is true that AGEs occur more frequently in animal foods but they are always much lower in quantity in raw animal foods from animals raised on very healthy diets.
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Joy, as regards to wrinkles and aging. I wonder if you've lost any excess weight while eating paleo... If so the weight/fat will also have come off of the face as well, and contribute to the skin showing existing wrinkles. Many women and men as they age really look older in the face if they should lose weight.
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While animal foods often have higher AGE content by mass, they're also far more calorie dense than plant foods. I wonder if you calculated AGE content for plant foods versus animal foods by bioavailable calorie if the difference would remain as stark? And Geoff's comments are smart regarding whether the animal was raised on a healthy diet versus a diet that causes a system-wide inflammatory response (as with grain feeding ruminants), so I'm not sure how heavily to weight the animal food numbers noted above.
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I am not trying to pick bones. I really want to find out the answer concerning fat. After transferring from a mostly-vegan little-fat diet to a RP diet of much fat(mostly coconut oil but also animal fat and sesame seeds/walnuts) and animal protein for a year, I think I age more. First wrinkles appear on my forehead. :( Of course I am one year older than I was. But I never noticed that one year could age me so much. So I would like to try to find out whether much fat is really good.
I am in my 60s, so I read your post from two perspectives: a wrinkle perspective and a fats perspective. True, I don't know your age, but if you are around my age, there is an undeniable transformation going on. I think of it as the change in an apple when it goes from its tart, green, underripe stage to its sweet, fragrant, wise, mature stage. Wrinkles can make you look better, or they can make you look worse. I am convince that our attitudes about life determine the way our wrinkles set. Friendliness, patience, optimism, lovingkindness, and self-forgetfulness* produce sweet-looking wrinkles. Anger, worry, irritation, pessimism, intolerance, and looking at yourself too much create sour-looking wrinkles. You will know which kind of wrinkles you have because sweet-looking wrinkles make people smile spontaneously at you, while sour-looking wrinkles do not elicit smiles.
Now, for the fats perspective, I would recommend eating unprocessed fats only. Extracted oils, even when cold-extracted, are not a whole food. In addition, I would advise against following guidelines set by the US government and espoused by organizations such as the American Heart Association, the American Institute for Cancer Research, and the American Diabetes Association. A full explanation of my reasoning can be found in the writings of Gary Taubes.
*Self-forgetfulness here means paying attention to your purpose in life; asking not what life can do for your, rather asking what you can do for life.
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Joy, as regards to wrinkles and aging. I wonder if you've lost any excess weight while eating paleo... If so the weight/fat will also have come off of the face as well, and contribute to the skin showing existing wrinkles. Many women and men as they age really look older in the face if they should lose weight.
Ah, yes. I was once amazed to learn that there were a number of men interested in "BBWs"(Big Beautiful Women). Turns out that the extra fat-layers of these large women help smooth their skin so that wrinkles don't show and they look younger than slimmer women(past a certain age).
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i think circulation, breathing, proper lympahtic drainage and an overall healthful balanced diet, life and attitude contribute a lot to healthy skin. saunas alternating with cold dunks are excellent to get blood flowing into every last vein in the body, same with proper exercise which helps to promote oxigenation, livening up of the skin and clearing of the blood. also lymphatic drainage, which can be aided by certain stretches/yoga poses, skin brushing, and also rebounding (or jump roping, jumping jacks, trail running, regular running). i have to say the more animal products i consume the better my skin becomes, this means less veggies, low carb (50 g max in my case) and lots of broth and fats. i think its easy to see from the information about AGES that conventional cooked animal products way high on the list, but i tend to think that there are nutrients enough in raw well raised animal products that probably make up for any AGES
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On that list, the dairy products have the most AGEs.
But I'm astonished that avocados have quite some (1577) . I suspect that avocados from South Africa and Israel are irradiated and I never buy them. It could perhaps be a reason for the presence of these AGEs in them.
As for raw cashews (2723), raw pumpkin seeds (1853) and raw sunflower seeds (2510) I wonder if the ones tested were really raw because commercial ones are likely to have been heated, especially cashew nuts which are systematically hot (flame) shelled . Commercial olives (1670) are processed.
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joy are you properly hydrated? do you get enough trace minerals? do you drink broth? wrinkly forehead is more likely due to these factors and also that you are not getting enough saturated fats if you are sticking to vegan raw paleo.......try egg yolks, raw cream or butter, or raw cuts of fat from grassfed/patured animals if you can. also try gelatin in your broth to add complimentary amino acids, dandelion root tea also helps with proper hydration. i am certain you will see a huge improvement in your skin tone.
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Thanks to all who responded.
Joy, as regards to wrinkles and aging. I wonder if you've lost any excess weight while eating paleo... If so the weight/fat will also have come off of the face as well, and contribute to the skin showing existing wrinkles. Many women and men as they age really look older in the face if they should lose weight.
No I have not lost any weight. I am a small woman and do not need to lose weight.
I do take in more calories while eating RP low-carb. But I like fruit and I miss fruit while doing low-carb.
On that list, the dairy products have the most AGEs.
But I'm astonished that avocados have quite some (1577) . I suspect that avocados from South Africa and Israel are irradiated and I never buy them. It could perhaps be a reason for the presence of these AGEs in them.
As for raw cashews (2723), raw pumpkin seeds (1853) and raw sunflower seeds (2510) I wonder if the ones tested were really raw because commercial ones are likely to have been heated, especially cashew nuts which are systematically hot (flame) shelled . Commercial olives (1670) are processed.
My guess is that these items have high AGEs because they contain a large amount of fat/oil.
While animal foods often have higher AGE content by mass, they're also far more calorie dense than plant foods. I wonder if you calculated AGE content for plant foods versus animal foods by bioavailable calorie if the difference would remain as stark?
A sensible suggestion. So I did the math.
AGE content is 13 ku in 100g of apples.
AGE content is 23340 ku in 100g of butter.
AGE content is 10040 ku in 100g of extra virgin olive oil.
AGE content is 1003 ku in 100g of raw shrimps.
http://marshfieldceliac.weebly.com/uploads/2/5/5/7/2557865/ada_ages_in_food_reduction1.pdf (http://marshfieldceliac.weebly.com/uploads/2/5/5/7/2557865/ada_ages_in_food_reduction1.pdf)
100g apple has 52 calories.
100g butter has 717 calories.
100g olive oil has 884 calories
100g shrimps have 106 calories
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fats-and-oils/509/2 (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fats-and-oils/509/2)
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/finfish-and-shellfish-products/4172/2 (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/finfish-and-shellfish-products/4172/2)
Now let us raise all food items to 884 calories. And the result is:
100g olive oil has 884 calories and contains 10040 ku of AGE.
1700g apples has 884 calories and contains 221 ku of AGE.
(approximately) 123g butter has 884 calories and contains 28780 ku of AGE.
(approximately) 834g shrimps have 884 calories and contain 8365 ku of AGE.
Now my math was done by a pencil and my brain, not by a calculater. So do not expect me to be exact. But one gets an idea from the result. There IS a stark difference.
And Geoff's comments are smart regarding whether the animal was raised on a healthy diet versus a diet that causes a system-wide inflammatory response (as with grain feeding ruminants), so I'm not sure how heavily to weight the animal food numbers noted above.
My guess is that the fruit/vegetables used in the research are also supermarket types, raised by unhealthful farming methods. So I think it is fair to compare their AGEs with the AGEs of animal products.
Now, for the fats perspective, I would recommend eating unprocessed fats only. Extracted oils, even when cold-extracted, are not a whole food. In addition, I would advise against following guidelines set by the US government and espoused by organizations such as the American Heart Association, the American Institute for Cancer Research, and the American Diabetes Association. A full explanation of my reasoning can be found in the writings of Gary Taubes.
Quite a few people on this forum say cocaonut oil is good though. I know coconut oil/cream is very stable even at high temperature.
What is the reason we should dismiss the advice of organizations such as the American Heart Association, the American Institute for Cancer Research, and the American Diabetes Association? Their advice is based on scientific research.
joy are you properly hydrated? do you get enough trace minerals? do you drink broth? wrinkly forehead is more likely due to these factors and also that you are not getting enough saturated fats if you are sticking to vegan raw paleo.......try egg yolks, raw cream or butter, or raw cuts of fat from grassfed/patured animals if you can. also try gelatin in your broth to add complimentary amino acids, dandelion root tea also helps with proper hydration. i am certain you will see a huge improvement in your skin tone.
Jessica, I will take your advice about sauna (steambath is what I do), deep breathing, stretching, skin brush, egg yokes. I may not be properly hydrated since I went RP low-carb. (During my nearly-vegan days I did not have to worry about hydration of course, due to the large amount of fruit I took in.)
What broth do you drink? Isn't broth cooked?
Actually, tuna is increasingly farmed.
This could mean that there will be less competition for wild-caught tuna, right? ;)
Our alimentary instinct limits the amount of fat we can eat and regulates it properly according to our individual and momentary needs. ;)
I am starting to think I should just go instincto and forget about all diet theories. But then there is the problem of overly sweet modern fruit which may induce overeating of fruit...
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The reason why those aforementioned items have high AGEs has nothing whatsoever to do with them having high fats/oils, it has to do with them being very heavily processed.
Comparing intensively-farmed plant foods to intensively-farmed animal foods is not appropriate. After all, animals are more complex creatures than plants plus feeding unhealthy foods to animals cannot really be compared to feeding the usual to plants(ie water, sunlight). The only unnatural substances plants get are fertilisers and insecticides.
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Don't the Masai tribesmen age rapidly?
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Joy, you need to compare 100 calories of fruit to 100 calories of fat. Apples are about 95% water. This will show you that the difference in AGEs is not that large.
As far as aging and fat go, just look at Doug Graham and Durian Rider.
Also, haven't you been eating a lot of grainfed meat this last year, and cooked food as well?
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joy, broth IS cooked, but there are supposedly ways you can make "raw broth" you can search for those on the forum. i liken it to drinking tea. i have read a lot that with low carb diets its best to get plenty of liquids but to not dilute ones electrolytes, this is why i suggest making a delicious broth seasoned with salty sea vegetables. glucose is especially good at holding onto water in the body and when you starting running more towards a ketogenic diet you loose the ability to hold so much water in your cells. also things like dandelion tea is a really great source of potassium, healing to the kidneys, which some medicinal teachings say indicate their health on the forehead.
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What is the reason we should dismiss the advice of organizations such as the American Heart Association, the American Institute for Cancer Research, and the American Diabetes Association? Their advice is based on scientific research.
Not entirely true. Most of the research by "our" (USA) government and agencies funded by "our" government have experimental faults of various kinds, such as too little duration of experiments, skewed demographics of the test groups, elimination of unfavorable results, etc. The scientific research that you want to rely on also says that grainfed beef is good, genetic modification harmlessly produces better products, raw meat is dangerous, and people should limit fat intake.
Quite a few people on this forum say cocaonut oil is good though. I know coconut oil/cream is very stable even at high temperature.
Yes, quite a few people on this forum say coconut oil is good, but you miss my point. Coconut oil is a processed fraction of a whole food. Quite a few people on this forum say that it's better to eat a whole food than to eat a processed fraction of a whole food, and I am one of those people.
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I think all foods contain some AGE's naturally. Even the highest quality of foods will have some AGE's. Although I'm sure as the foods become more "conventional" and/or cooked they get more AGE's.
What is the reason we should dismiss the advice of organizations such as the American Heart Association, the American Institute for Cancer Research, and the American Diabetes Association? Their advice is based on scientific research.
For one, if those organizations were any good at what they do, or are supposed to do. We wouldn't have sky rocketing levels of diabetes, heart disease, and obesity.
I think the last I heard 1 in 3 will get cancer, 1 in 3 will get diabetes, and 1 in 2 will get heart disease.
The grain based, carb heavy diet recommended to Americans is doing a lot of damage. It's visible by how illnesses that were rare in the 20's, became very common in the 90's. And that now even kids are getting diabetes and other illnesses.
I am starting to think I should just go instincto and forget about all diet theories. But then there is the problem of overly sweet modern fruit which may induce overeating of fruit...
I like that idea. I personally think there's to much emphasis on low carb or zero carb on this forum. It seems like everywhere I look (not just here, but also from SCD'ers), everyone's anticarbs.
But personally I don't buy into instincto. Sure, if there was unlimited of every food, and you could pick and choose which foods you want maybe you'd be able to instinctively know what to eat. Maybe.
But the fact is most wild animals don't have unlimited of every food. They look for food, when they find it, they eat as much as they can.
A wolf doesn't kill an animal then just stop eating, it eats till it's full.
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Many thanks to all who responded and provided food for thought.
Joy, you need to compare 100 calories of fruit to 100 calories of fat. Apples are about 95% water. This will show you that the difference in AGEs is not that large.
As far as aging and fat go, just look at Doug Graham and Durian Rider.
CK, I was comparing the food items based on 884 calories of each food item.
100g olive oil has 884 calories and contains 10040 ku of AGE.
1700g apples has 884 calories and contains 221 ku of AGE.
(approximately) 123g butter has 884 calories and contains 28780 ku of AGE.
(approximately) 834g shrimps have 884 calories and contain 8365 ku of AGE.
Also, haven't you been eating a lot of grainfed meat this last year, and cooked food as well?
Are you confusing me with someone else?
I am basically doing raw paleo using grass-fed beef and wild-caught salmon and wild-caught shrimps, except when I was a guess at my siblings' houses. They are cooked but they also mostly use grass-fed and wild-caught animal foods.
I ate much raw cheese for the first four months of 2012 (I regret that mistake) and I have stayed away from raw dairy since May 2012.
Don't the Masai tribesmen age rapidly?
Will someone reply to this question?
As far as aging and fat go, just look at Doug Graham and Durian Rider.
DG does age behond his age. DR seems OK?
joy, broth IS cooked, but there are supposedly ways you can make "raw broth" you can search for those on the forum. i liken it to drinking tea. i have read a lot that with low carb diets its best to get plenty of liquids but to not dilute ones electrolytes, this is why i suggest making a delicious broth seasoned with salty sea vegetables.
Will you please share one of your favorite recipes?
things like dandelion tea is a really great source of potassium, healing to the kidneys, which some medicinal teachings say indicate their health on the forehead.
So dandelion is good for skin because of its rich potassium?
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Sorry, Joy, I was confusing you with Suiren.
As far as AGEs go, they aren't the only factor in aging. I don't recommend eating to any extreme, whether low- fat or low-carb or low- protein, etc., because I've seen major problems from some people with all of those.
Durian Rider is already looking pretty weathered, he actually addresses this in some of his videos. In contrast, most raw foodies who don't eat such extreme versions of the diet usually look years younger than their age.
Many thanks to all who responded and provided food for thought.
CK, I was comparing the food items based on 884 calories of each food item.
100g olive oil has 884 calories and contains 10040 ku of AGE.
1700g apples has 884 calories and contains 221 ku of AGE.
(approximately) 123g butter has 884 calories and contains 28780 ku of AGE.
(approximately) 834g shrimps have 884 calories and contain 8365 ku of AGE.
Are you confusing me with someone else?
I am basically doing raw paleo using grass-fed beef and wild-caught salmon and wild-caught shrimps, except when I was a guess at my siblings' houses. They are cooked but they also mostly use grass-fed and wild-caught animal foods.
I ate much raw cheese for the first four months of 2012 (I regret that mistake) and I have stayed away from raw dairy since May 2012.
Will someone reply to this question?
DG does age behond his age. DR seems OK?
Will you please share one of your favorite recipes?
So dandelion is good for skin because of its rich potassium?
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I recall one long-term rawist mentioning that the Instinctos he saw were even healthier and younger-looking than the primal dieters in similiar meetings. I have also heard of many reports by primal dieters that their primal diet gatherings all had multitudes of middle-aged people who looked 10 years younger than SAD-eating contemporaries.
Re DurianRider:- His eating raw may well not help as regards AGEs:-
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/sugar-and-sweeteners/vegetarians-age-faster-2/ (http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/sugar-and-sweeteners/vegetarians-age-faster-2/)
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joy, dandelion promotes healthy kidneys and liver, its full of potassium and helps to break down uric acid in the body. i have read that people who are dehydrated, with distressed kidneys, have wrinkles on the forehead as a symptom of those issues, therefore drinking dandelion (root and leave) tea will help to promote healing of the kidneys, hydration and thus healthier skin and less wrinkly forehead
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Ck, Tyler, Jessica, many thanks.
This statement is in the article Tyler cited:
"the omnivores (Traditional) actually consumed a little more carb (saccharides) each day than did the vegetarians (Alternative), but not enough to reach significance. What the vegetarians ate more of in significant amounts were fruits and vegetables, giving them a significantly increased intake of fructose....When researchers measured levels of carboxymethyllysine, an glycation product that represents a general marker of oxidative stress and long-term damage of proteins in aging, atherosclerosis and diabetes it was found to be significantly elevated in vegetarians as compared to omnivores. Fluorescent AGEs are basically a direct measurement of AGEs in the blood....Fluorescent AGEs were also significantly higher in the vegetarians."
So what are we supposed to conclude from this? What carb do the omnivores eat that is better than fruits/vegetables? grains? beans?
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The point was that eating fructose leads to more formation of AGEs in the blood even if the actual food itself does not contain much in the way of AGEs. So omnivores are more immune as they eat less fructose.
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The point was that eating fructose leads to more formation of AGEs in the blood even if the actual food itself does not contain much in the way of AGEs. So omnivores are more immune as they eat less fructose.
This makes a lot of sense, after reading about how proteins and fructose bind to each other.
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Tyler and CK, Thanks for responding.
Yes I got the point about eating fructose. But my question remains: What kinds of carbs do the omnivores eat that are better than fruits/vegetables?
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I would look at starchy raw root crops as staples.
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Tyler and CK, Thanks for responding.
Yes I got the point about eating fructose. But my question remains: What kinds of carbs do the omnivores eat that are better than fruits/vegetables?
I don't think raw fruits and raw vegetables are "bad" per se, I just don't think they should be consumed in large quantities without any raw animal foods.
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joy why does there have to be a source of carbs that is better? why cant the answer be that the lack of carbs is better. its such an american idea that there always has to be a better option of something that doesnt really work, like chemically laden low fat this and carb free that food subsitutes. sometimes to heal and for health we have to take an element away from the equation.
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My guess is that these items have high AGEs because they contain a large amount of fat/oil.
Advanced Glycation End products refer to glucose+protein , and what happens to it. There is no source of that nasty stuff in any fat or its component EFAs that I know of.
So when I saw in the list that butter, which has no glucose or anything else to glycate is high in AGEs, I assumed that this is junk science.
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I don't think raw fruits and raw vegetables are "bad" per se, I just don't think they should be consumed in large quantities without any raw animal foods.
AGE = protein + glucose
Animal foods have much protein. So, animal foods + fruit/vegi = protein + glucose = AGE
Raw fruit and raw greens or other low-calorie vegi contain little protein. So how come raw fruit/vegi consumed without animal foods could result in a large amount of AGEs?
joy why does there have to be a source of carbs that is better? why cant the answer be that the lack of carbs is better. its such an american idea that there always has to be a better option of something that doesnt really work, like chemically laden low fat this and carb free that food subsitutes. sometimes to heal and for health we have to take an element away from the equation.
Jessica, the problem is that I feel I aged at an unusual rate this past year when I mostly consumed low-carb raw animal foods. The first four months I ate high-fat and was in ketosis. (Granted, I ate much raw cheese which might be a big mistake.) The second half of the year I ate more protein, without any dairy. Neither appeared to bring obvious health benefits.
Maybe some people such as I just need fruit/vegi.
Advanced Glycation End products refer to glucose+protein , and what happens to it. There is no source of that nasty stuff in any fat or its component EFAs that I know of.
So when I saw in the list that butter, which has no glucose or anything else to glycate is high in AGEs, I assumed that this is junk science.
Interesting idea. Will any science mind respond to this?
I would look at starchy raw root crops as staples.
Now I recall RPD allows raw root crops.
BTW, what is the reason that raw root crops are considered good for health?
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Jessica, the problem is that I feel I aged at an unusual rate this past year when I mostly consumed low-carb raw animal foods. The first four months I ate high-fat and was in ketosis. (Granted, I ate much raw cheese which might be a big mistake.) The second half of the year I ate more protein, without any dairy. Neither appeared to bring obvious health benefits.
Maybe some people such as I just need fruit/vegi.
Interesting idea. Will any science mind respond to this?
The measurements of AGEs are not theoretical, unlike nearly everything William has ever said here. They are simply lab-based measurements, done under strict conditions. If you doubt the science, then read up on the process of testing specific foods for AGEs. It's solid.
I imagine the cheese did not help. I'm also concerned that you may have been overeating protein. Can you remember the amounts of all foods you were eating, on average, for the last 6 months or so?. If you can, then it's fairly simple to calculate protein as a percentage of total calories. You don't want to go over 30% of protein as total calories.
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Thanks, CK.
Does overeating protein age people?
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william, as usual, is spouting lies. Cooked fats do indeed contain advanced glycation end products, indeed cooked animal fats contain higher levels of such toxins far more than any other foods. Even worse, they also contain ALEs(advanced lipoxidation end products) which are the result of cooking rapidly oxidising the fats in a harmful way.
william, incidentally, I'm getting sick of this constant nonsense of yours. One more such outright lie and you get banned permanently.
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Thanks, CK.
Does overeating protein age people?
It's going to differ from person to person. Some people seem to be able to tolerate a higher amount of protein without problems, like TylerDurden. However, it can easily cause problems for many people if you go below 20% or above 30% of total calories.
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to me it seems fat would do the oppisite, and promote youth. if you think about what protects your skin, its fats, sebum, keratenoids, they keep the skin moist, hydrophilic so it doesnt absorb the outer world and loose its tenacity, protect your heart, liver, kidneys, make up your brain, and also collagen, which i dont know are they fat, are they amino acids? that keep the body supple and along with amino acids keep the body flexible and muscular and with the addiction of minerals make up our structure. the best source for all of this is raw animal meats and fats, hands down, because in the most basic sense we are raw animal meats and fats, its basic building blocks the body can easily assimilate. if only we had access to blood i and amazingly nutrient dense soil we wouldnt really need any mineral supplimentation, as minerals make up our structure so the sea providith weeds to help us remineralize.
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Does overeating protein age people?
Of course, overeating of anything is detrimental.
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Thanks to all who responded. Thanks for helping me ponder upon these questions and find answers.
William's argument raises my question: Why does pure fat or high-fat food (even in the raw state) contain so much AGE?
Butter (23340 KU per 100grams)
Raw cashews (2723)
avocado (1577)
Raw pumpkin seeds (1853)
Raw sunflower seeds (2510)
Mayonnaise (9400)
Extra virgin olive oil (10040)
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i doubt that the butter is from raw milk.
olive oil is highly processed, i wonder how fresh olives would score?
also avocados are a ripe fruit, i think the ripeing process has something to do with it
and also cashews and sunflower seeds are generally steamed open and probably rancid by the time they are tested.
the mayonaise, if its anything like the chemically laden shit they sell at the regular grocery store, shouldnt even be considered a food source.
critical thinking.......its a thing.
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As jessica said, the butter is not raw and is highly likely to have come from a cow fed on grains, so would inevitably have lots of AGEs in it.
Cashew nuts are routinely preheated. It wouldn't surprise me if raw pumpkin seeds were, too. Plus, seeds contain antinutrients, enzyme inhibitors etc., so might well have AGEs in them already.
I suspect that raw fat from wild sources has negligible amounts of AGEs in it.
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If AGE is the product of protein plus glucose, why would fat have any AGE, whether rancid or not?
Also will someone answer my previous question regarding the article cited by Tyler:
"AGE = protein + glucose
Animal foods have much protein. So, animal foods + fruit/vegi = protein + glucose = AGE
Raw fruit and raw greens or other low-calorie vegi contain little protein. So how come raw fruit/vegi consumed without animal foods could result in a large amount of AGEs (larger than omnivores' diet)?"
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It's perhaps a simplification that AGEs only equals protein plus glucose. There are also ALEs(advanced lipoxidation end products) which are also considered to be a type of AGEs - in this instance, though, it's just toxic oxidised fats, no protein or glucose involved.
As explained by Eades previously, the point re vegetarians is that while they eat foods that are low in AGEs, the end result is that they end up with getting higher amounts of AGEs in the body. After all, the human body contains lots of protein and also lots of glucose in the form of blood. So, the usually higher levels of blood-sugar in the blood of vegetarians would encourage more AGEs being produced in the body.
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Thanks, Tyler.
And thanks, Jessica and all others who contributed answers to my questions.
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Something to consider too.. Getting high EMF exposure dries out your cells and makes you age faster... I can recognize it when I have been spending too much time in front of my laptop = the reason why I have switched to old fashioned computer, all wired, with little EMF radiation. I have a meter and I was shocked how bad my laptop was.
So if you are spending much time in front of the screen.. or otherwise spend much time in a high EMF environment, your skin will age faster. Check, wifi, Iphone, smart meters.. towers.. etc..
The amount of EMFs is increasing every year... we need to take care our home and work places have as little as possible. Of course we cannot escape it 100% as it is everywhere today, but we can do a lot still to minimize and protect us.
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I have a meter and I was shocked how bad my laptop was.
Which EMF meter do you use? Could you recommend any brand?
Löwenherz
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Inger, thank you for the tip. I will stay away from my laptop computer as much as possible.
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Which EMF meter do you use? Could you recommend any brand?
Löwenherz
I can only tell that the meter I have works quite well! It is a Trifield 100x meter and measures magnetic, electric and radio wave radiation.
It cost me (us, we share it with my parents) around 200 € but you can get them for 120 $ in the USA, eBay has a lot of them, they just do not ship here. I got mine from the UK.
It does not measure very effectively radiowaves but it does it hold very close. The meters that are effective for that are way more expensive me thinks. There are a lot of different meters out there and many that cost way more but this is great as a starter!
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Inger, what about "old-fashioned" home telephones and CD players? What about cordless home telephones? Do they have high EFM?
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Inger, what about "old-fashioned" home telephones and CD players? What about cordless home telephones? Do they have high EFM?
Old fashioned wired home telephones are quite okay. CD player is bad, also using headphones.. I stopped using those too. Cordless home telephones are really bad and I immediately throw away the one I had given my parents last year.. with my parents agreement for sure. I would never use those they radiate very strong. Also "baby watchers" are very bad, never ever use those.
LED lamps are very bad too. If I use any lamps today they are only old fashioned low watt bulbs.
Dimmers are really bad too...
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Inger, many thanks for the info.