Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Other Raw-Animal-Food Diets (eg:- Primal Diet/Raw Version of Weston-Price Diet etc.) => Primal Diet => Topic started by: goodsamaritan on March 14, 2013, 12:17:58 am
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I'm experimenting with Vitamin K2 sources lately and the lady who is a K2 proponent says that Brie and Gouda are cheeses with excellent K2 amounts.
I am lucky that the Brie Cheese I bought is a raw cheese: Brie de Meaux (French)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brie_de_Meaux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brie_de_Meaux)
I just read somewhere that it is illegal to import raw cheese in the USA.
I think Brie tastes pretty good.
All over Metro Manila you can by Brie cheese in Rustan's and Santi's outlets.
Let this thread be a depository of raw cheese discussions.
Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews.
Aajonus Vonderplanitz on RAW CHEESE:
CHEESES, RAW, NO-SALT-ADDED, are made from raw milk and
there is no salt added to the milk. Similar to clay, cheese supplies
concentrations of minerals that bind with radicals and poisons that the
body dumped into the stomach and intestines. Also, cheese draws the
poisons from the blood, nervous and lymphatic systems as they pass
through the stomach and intestines. Unsalted raw cheeses act like a
sponge to absorb those toxins, relieving nausea. Since cheeses lack
most bioactive enzymes, causing dehydration, eating raw fat with
cheese, such as unsalted raw butter or coconut cream, helps prevent
constipation.
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It is legal to import/sell raw aged cheese in the US, but not raw soft cheese. I can buy domestic and imported raw sheep, cow, and goat cheese in many stores. Funny, though, the cheese says "raw" but not "grass-fed" or "pastured" so I make the general assumption (true or not) that imported sheep's-milk cheese is grass-fed and all others are not.
Trader Joe's carries raw-milk cheeses, none are specified as grass-fed. Also, Trader Joe's carries a grass-fed cheese that contains pasteurized milk.
I also find raw cheeses at independent supermarkets such as Ava's in Mountain View, Gene's Fine Foods in Saratoga, and many more places in the South Bay (San Francisco) area. I have also found raw cheese at the Campbell (Sunday) Farmer's Market. Grass-fed beef at the butcher counter seems to signal that there will possibly be raw cheese in the dairy case.
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According to this http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble-activators/x-factor-is-vitamin-k2#foods (http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble-activators/x-factor-is-vitamin-k2#foods) pancreas would be highest in k2.
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According to this http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble-activators/x-factor-is-vitamin-k2#foods (http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble-activators/x-factor-is-vitamin-k2#foods) pancreas would be highest in k2.
Awesome find! Thanks!
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What does pancrease taste like?
Japanese natto is extremely high in K2, much much higher than cheese.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/353239-foods-rich-in-vitamin-k2/ (http://www.livestrong.com/article/353239-foods-rich-in-vitamin-k2/)
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Beef pancreas that I get tastes bland and good. No bad taste from my point of view. I did get cross eyed once for 2 days after eating too much pancreas. Since then I just eat a slice at a time.
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I've eaten buffalo pancreas regularly in the past from NorthStar Bizon. The taste was very strong. I could only eat 2-3 ounces at a time. Never tried from other animals.
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I think one is meant to eat less than an ounce or two at at a time. Try hanging it in the fridge for about 5 -7 days, taking slices from it as it ages.
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It appears cooking makes it less stronger. I've heard it is a popular dish in the South - sweetbreads.
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do you really trust any cheese in a store to be truly raw? their definition of raw is unpasteurized. at least, i'm guessing that they boil the milk before adding cultures. plus the added salt. it's too much, and who knows what kind.
i really like sweetbreads!! i've never just taken a slice of pancreas, but i love the flavor it adds when ground with muscle meat.
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Technically, I posted this topic about raw cheese in Aajonus' Primal Diet section where raw cheese is "legal".
Yes, you are correct about trust, this is why I'm asking for feedback and experiences from others, which brand to trust.
I agree that raw organs may give K2, but I think my son who needs K2 is not ready for raw organs regularly yet.
Past 2 dinners I had raw fish eggs of a 5.6 kilo dorado fish. Hopefully that contained a lot of K2. My son took a bite of the raw fish eggs and said they were ok.
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I was a great lover of raw cheese. In Switzerland, the Sbrinz and Tilsit cheese were made with raw milk and perhaps still are. In "cantons" of Vaud and Fribourg there is a very soft an creamy cheese called "vacherin"; it's in a wooden box which keeps it in shape. It was made with raw milk but after some people got salmonella with it, it had to be compulsory pasteurized. The same fate happened to another kind, the small "tomme vaudoise".
I never ate cheese again (nor any dairy) ever since January 1987, except once about a cubic centimeter of raw goat cheese, which I found heavy to digest.
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Aajonous also writes on how to make the cheese yourself. that's the only cheese i would trust to truly be raw if i were going to eat cheese.
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do you really trust any cheese in a store to be truly raw?
the is a great selection of local raw cheeses in the pacific northwest/inland northwest. I trust the farmers, they are very very traditional farmers and are really lovely to supply the community with access to raw milk and raw milk cheeses. those are definitely a treat, very addicting!
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Added this info on the first post for reference to new readers:
Aajonus Vonderplanitz on RAW CHEESE:
CHEESES, RAW, NO-SALT-ADDED, are made from raw milk and
there is no salt added to the milk. Similar to clay, cheese supplies
concentrations of minerals that bind with radicals and poisons that the
body dumped into the stomach and intestines. Also, cheese draws the
poisons from the blood, nervous and lymphatic systems as they pass
through the stomach and intestines. Unsalted raw cheeses act like a
sponge to absorb those toxins, relieving nausea. Since cheeses lack
most bioactive enzymes, causing dehydration, eating raw fat with
cheese, such as unsalted raw butter or coconut cream, helps prevent
constipation.
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I have wondered about this claim that raw cheese binds to toxins. It makes some sense that it could pull toxins from the blood when it is in the digestive track. However Aajonus states that iridology shows that toxins are also stored throughout the body, say in the lungs and brain and affect those organs. I am wondering how cheese being in the digestive track could be affective in removing toxins stored in other areas.
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I have wondered about this claim that raw cheese binds to toxins. It makes some sense that it could pull toxins from the blood when it is in the digestive track. However Aajonis states that iridology shows that toxins are also stored throughout the body, say in the lungs and brain and affect those organs. I am wondering how cheese being in the digestive track could be affective in removing toxins stored in other areas.
Maybe it is because blood flows. There are theories that the stomach also plays that role in cleansing the blood. Barefoot Herbalist MH is on the same page with Aajonus on that hypothesis.
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I thought about whether or not to reply... here goes, occasionally I think 'we' find reasons to eat certain foods we like. Another example is butter mixed with honey suggested by Aajonus. Does nothing for me other than raise blood sugar levels, and act as a comfort food that can be quite addicting if taken frequently, for what else in the raw paleo world comes close to being as sweet and fatty (besides Durian). I remember being Chastised by the Bear when I asked where he gets his calcium, and should we be be grinding bones. But then you read where he eats quite a bit of cheese, and hence gets His calcium from it. With cheese, one might say the mucous I get when eating most could be from the toxins that the cheese pulls. My vote/opinion would be something different. I think it's also important to remember when proclaiming the benefit of a certain food,, what food have you substituted it for. For instance, butter and honey may be a relief to the body when substituted for chocolate with it's often included processed ingredients. Cheese may be a substitute for eating breads or cooked starches for one transitioning away from cooked or processed foods, and hence, again, be a relief for the body. But then again, the Swiss are some of the longest lived peoples in the world according to Price and they certainly relied on cheese as almost if not their staple. But then I've been to those mountains, and have tasted dairy in many of their forms, and the vitality of dairy from swiss mountain cows/goats eating the multi-varied grasses and herbs during the summer months, is probably unsurpassed anywhere in the world.
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WARNING: 95% of raw cheese sold in stores is not raw but simply heated below elgal pasteurization tempurature. This means they can label it raw if its just 1 degree under legal pasteurization temperature.
make sure your cheese is raw before eating it.
as far as cheese types go iv been loving goat feta lately. It makes me feel REALLY good and energized, something to do with its inherent tanginess.
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I love raw cheese, Brie and Camembert are absolutely delicious but I get constipated after eating them. I can't eat a slice or two, because I can't stop until I finish the hole box :-))
It's a fairly small box of Camembert but I get constipated every time I eat it.
Am I the only one who gets such a horrible side effect?
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I love raw cheese, Brie and Camembert are absolutely delicious but I get constipated after eating them. I can't eat a slice or two, because I can't stop until I finish the hole box :-))
It's a fairly small box of Camembert but I get constipated every time I eat it.
Am I the only one who gets such a horrible side effect?
1. the cheese might not be truly raw, check with the manufactureer.
2. aajonus recommends mixing cheese with fat to prevent constipation.
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I love raw cheese, Brie and Camembert are absolutely delicious but I get constipated after eating them. I can't eat a slice or two, because I can't stop until I finish the hole box :-))
It's a fairly small box of Camembert but I get constipated every time I eat it.
Am I the only one who gets such a horrible side effect?
It's the extremely high calcium to magnesium ratio that causes this. I advise eating only butter and fermented cream, as far as dairy goes. The excess calcium can cause heart disease, after several decades. In addition, it can cause calcium to be deposited in weird places around your body, that can create pain and other symptoms.
Also, those cheese aren't raw. Hopefully they are at least grassfed, but you're better off looking for truly grassfed, raw dairy.
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It's the extremely high calcium to magnesium ratio that causes this. I advise eating only butter and fermented cream, as far as dairy goes. The excess calcium can cause heart disease, after several decades. In addition, it can cause calcium to be deposited in weird places around your body, that can create pain and other symptoms.
Actually, I've started looking into this extensively. It's not necessarily calcium itself that is bad. Calcium is a necessary nutrient and beneficial for dental, bone, and other aspects of health.
It's the LACK OF VITAMIN K2 that leads to all the problems associated with calcium.
Vitamin K2 directs the calcium to go to bones and teeth. The lack of vitamin K2 basically lets calcium run a muck in the body and get deposited in places it doesn't belong (like the brain, arteries, etc).
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Actually, I've started looking into this extensively. It's not necessarily calcium itself that is bad. Calcium is a necessary nutrient and beneficial for dental, bone, and other aspects of health.
It's the LACK OF VITAMIN K2 that leads to all the problems associated with calcium.
Vitamin K2 directs the calcium to go to bones and teeth. The lack of vitamin K2 basically lets calcium run a muck in the body and get deposited in places it doesn't belong (like the brain, arteries, etc).
My understanding is that magnesium and vitamin D actually play larger roles in keeping calcium from causing problems.
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all the calcium studies you are basing this on were done on heated calcium. excess raw calcium is excreted through the urine just like all other excess minerals. this is the point of urine. if its raw it doesn get stuck anywhere and cause problems.
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My understanding is that magnesium and vitamin D actually play larger roles in keeping calcium from causing problems.
What I've seen online (I have yet to read the book "Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox: How a Little-Known Vitamin Could Save Your Life" since it hasn't arrived yet) has said that Vitamin D3 helps it absorb from the gut, and Vitamin K2 helps it get where it's supposed to be and keep it out of arteries and other unwanted areas. Magnesium is very important for bone health too though.
Fortunately for us pastured foods are very high in Vitamin K2.
I recommend that book for more info. The Amazon site has some of the book available to read for free.
http://www.amazon.com/Vitamin-K2-Calcium-Paradox-Little-Known/dp/1118065727 (http://www.amazon.com/Vitamin-K2-Calcium-Paradox-Little-Known/dp/1118065727)
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all the calcium studies you are basing this on were done on heated calcium. excess raw calcium is excreted through the urine just like all other excess minerals. this is the point of urine. if its raw it doesn't get stuck anywhere and cause problems.
I've read studies showing correlations between heart disease and calcium/magnesium content in drinking water. The higher the calcium and lower the magnesium, the worse the heart disease.
If there's no history of it in one's family, it's probably no big deal, as long as all your dairy is raw and grassfed. however, heart disease is RAMPANT in my family.
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What I've seen online (I have yet to read the book "Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox: How a Little-Known Vitamin Could Save Your Life" since it hasn't arrived yet) has said that Vitamin D3 helps it absorb from the gut, and Vitamin K2 helps it get where it's supposed to be and keep it out of arteries and other unwanted areas. Magnesium is very important for bone health too though.
Fortunately for us pastured foods are very high in Vitamin K2.
I recommend that book for more info. The Amazon site has some of the book available to read for free.
http://www.amazon.com/Vitamin-K2-Calcium-Paradox-Little-Known/dp/1118065727 (http://www.amazon.com/Vitamin-K2-Calcium-Paradox-Little-Known/dp/1118065727)
The ability of magnesium and vitamin D to counteract excess calcium has been well-known for many decades. I agree that K2 plays a part, but it's a supporting role, not the dominant one.
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I've read studies showing correlations between heart disease and calcium/magnesium content in drinking water. The higher the calcium and lower the magnesium, the worse the heart disease.
If there's no history of it in one's family, it's probably no big deal, as long as all your dairy is raw and grassfed. however, heart disease is RAMPANT in my family.
id like to see this study. was the drinking water spring water or just water with calcium and magnesium added in?
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id like to see this study. was the drinking water spring water or just water with calcium and magnesium added in?
No, the minerals were naturally-occurring.
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/143/5/456.full.pdf (http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/143/5/456.full.pdf)
"The odds ratios for death from acute myocardial infarction in the groups were inversely related to the amount of magnesium in drinking water. For the group with the highest levels of magnesium in drinking water, the odds ratio adjusted for age and calcium level was 0.65 (95 percent confidence interval 0.50-0.84). There was no such relation for calcium. For the magnesium/calcium quotient, the odds ratio was lower only for the group with the highest quotient. These data suggest that magnesium in drinking water is an important protective factor for death from acute myocardial infarction among males. Am J Epidemiol 1996;143:456-62."
So this says that magnesium appears to be protective against heart disease, while calcium does not. In addition, we should be aware that calcium and magnesium are chemical opposites in your body. The action of one cancels and opposes the action of the other. Calcium makes your muscles contract, magnesium makes them relax. That's just one example.
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so magnesium does protect the heart while calcium doesnt....
this does not show me how the calcium was detrimental in any way.
thats like saying protien is good because it builds muscle but fat is bad because it doesnt.
this proved nothing to me.
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dont you people realize that all excess minerals are excreted through the urine? this is one of the main functions of urine.
if the minerals are raw the excess is excreted.
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Svrn, calcium and magnesium counteract each other in the body. So, if magnesium is accomplishing something in your body, and you increase your calcium levels, then the calcium will reduce/reverse the thing that the magnesium was accomplishing.
In addition, calcium can be directly responsible for heart disease, because the plaques that form inside arteries often contain a lot of calcium.
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once again you repeat things with no proof.
i already explained how the last study was not proof.
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once again you repeat things with no proof.
i already explained how the last study was not proof.
If you want to take the risk, that's your choice.
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Your taking more of a risk than me by eliminating parts of your diet off of baseless conclusions.
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I'm OK with letting those who read this thread examine the evidence for themselves and make their own decisions.
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just want to reming everyone that the study previously posted says nothing about whether or not too much raw calcium has any advers effects. all it says is that it does not prevent myocardial infarction like magnesium does. The stdy said absolutely nothing negative about too muhc calcium.
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just want to reming everyone that the study previously posted says nothing about whether or not too much raw calcium has any advers effects. all it says is that it does not prevent myocardial infarction like magnesium does. The stdy said absolutely nothing negative about too much calcium.
Do you want me to post links showing that calcium and magnesium are chemically antagonistic in the body, and reverse each others' effects, or do you want to google it yourself?
Calcium is by nature a "rough" mineral. It's shape is spiky, and because of that, it tends to snag on softer things (like the walls of your arteries, for instance) and also tends to accrete (build up) in places, because its spiky shape also helps calcium particles stick to one another. This is helpful for forming bone, but not so good when you're trying to keep your arteries clear.
Magnesium is the opposite. It moves easily around the body and tends to stay suspended in a liquid solution (like your blood, for instance) much more easily. It's not spiky, so it doesn't scar the walls of your arteries, nor does it build up easily, unlike calcium.
If you don't believe this, Google it.
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If you don't believe this, Google it.
I was with you until this part. Pure genius.
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I was with you until this part. Pure genius.
Oh yeah, that was absolutely intentional. ROFL not really. :P
But it's true, nonetheless. I've actually done a fair amount of calcium and magnesium chemistry through making soil mineral supplements at home. Calcium loves to sink down and clump up, and you can see the spikes all over the clump of calcium. Magnesium is the opposite. It simply won't clump up, and it never really sinks all the way down to the bottom of the liquid solution. They're complete opposites.
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I watched this little interview with a retired USDA biologist who talks about the issues of geoengeneering with chemtrails and how it affects the soil. Really interesting obviously, I mean, what are we as humans doing? I cant even imagine...
http://youtu.be/9jf_nVLGDTo (http://youtu.be/9jf_nVLGDTo)
hows that for a Segway? I am pretty sure you mentioned soil.
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Article on Vitamin K2, magnesium, D3, and calcium.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/12/16/vitamin-k2.aspx (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/12/16/vitamin-k2.aspx)
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Article on Vitamin K2, magnesium, D3, and calcium.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/12/16/vitamin-k2.aspx (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/12/16/vitamin-k2.aspx)
That's very interesting. I do take vitamin D orally. I also eat a fairly large amount of high fish. I wonder if high fish has a lot of K2.
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more studies done on isolated chemicals that have no relation to their raw state?
i googled and found no studies done on raw calcium showing its antagonistic relationship with magnesium.
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Fine.
http://www.care2.com/news/member/956805373/1111579 (http://www.care2.com/news/member/956805373/1111579)
"Magnesium and calcium are two sides of a physiological coin: They are antagonistic to one another yet come as a team. For example:
• Calcium excites nerves, magnesium calms them down.
• Calcium makes muscles contract, but magnesium is necessary for muscles to relax.
• Calcium is necessary to the clotting reaction – so necessary for wound healing – but magnesium keeps the blood flowing freely and prevents abnormal thickening when clotting reactions would be dangerous. "
If you want more, just google "calcium magnesium antagonistic", without the quotes.
I especially want to point out that third bullet point regarding how calcium makes blood clot, and magnesium helps it to flow. Remember what I told you about how calcium and magnesium behave in a liquid solution?
Given the tendency of calcium to cause blood clotting, I try to avoid excess calcium. There's a long history of heart disease in my family, and I don't want to take that risk.
You may have no family history of heart disease, and so the excess calcium may not do you much harm.
I would like to point out that, when Dr. Price actually measured the average mineral levels of the diets of the tribes he studied, he found that the average calcium level was only about 5 times higher than the average American diet at the time. However, the average magnesium level was much higher, more like 12 times higher than the American diet. In contrast, the ratio of calcium to magnesium in dairy is about 12:1.
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Here's an excerpt from Dr. Price's book:
"... It is of interest that the diets of the primitive groups which have shown a very high immunity to dental caries and freedom from other degenerative processes have all provided a nutrition containing at least four times these minimum requirements; whereas the displacing nutrition of commerce, consisting largely of white-flour products, sugar, polished rice, jams, canned goods, and vegetable fats have invariably failed to provide even the minimum requirements.
In other words the foods of the native Eskimos contained 5.4 times as much calcium as the displacing foods of the white man, five times as much phosphorus, 1.5 times as much iron, 7.9 times as much magnesium, 1.8 times as much copper, 49.0 times as much iodine, and at least ten times that number of fat-soluble vitamins.
For the Indians of the far North of Canada, the native foods provided 5.8 times as much calcium, 5.8 times as much phosphorus, 2.7 times as much iron, 4.3 times as much magnesium, 1.5 times as much copper, 8.8 times as much iodine, and at least a ten fold increase in fat-soluble activators. For brevity, we will apply the figures to calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, iron and fat-soluble activators in order.
The ratio in the Swiss native diets to that in the displacing diet was for calcium, 3.7 fold; for phosphorus, 2.2 fold; for magnesium, 2.5 fold; for iron, 3.1 fold; and for the fat-soluble activators, at least ten fold.
For the Gaelics in the Outer Hebrides, the native foods provided 2.1 times as much calcium, 2.3 times as much phosphorus, 1.3 times as much magnesium, and 1.0 times as much iron; and the fat-soluble activators were increased at least ten fold.
For the Aborigines of Australia, living along the eastern coast where they have access to sea foods the ratio of minerals in the native diet to those in the displacing modernized foods was, for calcium, 4.6 fold; for phosphorus, 6.2 fold; for magnesium, 17 fold; and for iron 50.6 fold; while for the fatsoluble activators, it was at least ten fold.
The native diet of the New Zealand Maori provided an increase in the native foods over the displacing foods of the modernized whites of 6.2 fold for calcium, 6.9 fold for phosphorus, 23.4 fold for magnesium, 58.3 fold for iron; and the fatsoluble activators were increased at least ten fold.
The native diet of the Melanesians provided similarly an increase over the provision made in the modernized foods which displaced them of 5.7 fold for calcium, 6.4 fold for phosphorus, 26.4 fold for magnesium, and 22.4 fold for iron; while the fat-soluble activators were increased at least ten fold.
The Polynesians provided through their native diet for an increase in provision over that of the displacing imported diets, of 5.6 fold for calcium, 7.2 fold for phosphorus, 28.5 fold for magnesium, 18.6 fold for iron; and the fat-soluble activators were increased at least ten fold.
The coastal Indians of Peru provided through their native primitive diets for an increase in provision over that of the displacing modernized diet of 6.6 fold for calcium, 5.5 fold for phosphorus, 13.6 fold for magnesium, 5.1 fold for iron; and an excess of ten fold was provided for fat-soluble vitamins.
For the Indians of the Andean Mountains of Peru, the native foods provided an increase over the provision of the displacing modern foods of S fold for calcium, 5.5 fold for phosphorus, 13.3 fold for magnesium, 29.3 fold for iron; and an excess of at least ten fold was provided for fat-soluble vitamins.
For the cattle tribes in the interior of Africa, the primitive foods provided an increase over the provision of the displacing modernized foods of 7.5 fold for calcium, 8.2 fold for phosphorus, 19.1 fold for magnesium, 16.6 fold for iron and at least ten fold for fat-soluble activators.
For the agricultural tribes in Central Africa the native diet provided an increase over the provision of the displacing modern diet of 3.5 fold for calcium, 4.1 fold for phosphorus, 5.4 fold for magnesium, 16.6 fold for iron and ten fold for fat-soluble activators...."
that's from chapter 15.
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/price15.html (http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/price15.html)
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more studies done on isolated chemicals that have no relation to their raw state?
i googled and found no studies done on raw calcium showing its antagonistic relationship with magnesium.
I doubt very seriously that you've find a Study done on raw calcium. Most researchers don't recognize a difference, raw vs. cooked. Considering that most waters are high in inorganic ca. one might want to question as to how one could separate such a study if there was one, of course unless the participants in the study were drinking distilled water.
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Just anecdotal experience, two friends of mine, who drink well water with high calcium and also eat oxalate containing foods have had kidney stones in the past few months. Both are healthier then the average American and eat cleaner diets, but still eat shit like quinoa and chard.
I passed a kidney stone a few years ago, it was after a winter of drinking well and spring water that was very high in calcium, it affected me pretty quickly and I stopped because I felt really swollen in the face.
I now eat raw dairy and some pasteurized but local and grassfed butter and drink RO water and find no issues, no swelling, no kidney pain. I also take mag glycinate, usually daily, sometimes I forget.
My guess is that whatever form of calcium that is in raw milk has been broken down a bit by the cows digestion process to be more easily assimilated.
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more studies done on isolated chemicals that have no relation to their raw state?
Speaking of isolated chemicals. I think I've seen you mention that salt is toxic because it's used in a lab to make explosives. FYI that's sodium in it's pure state which can only be made in labs. The salt in sea salt is bound to chloride (and various other things) to make it totally harmless.
And those studies are relevant to calcium, any calcium (raw or cooked), leading to problems. You can't provide any evidence that "raw" calcium is magically different than "cooked" calcium and somehow the body can magically regulate it because of that.
Also, grass fed dairy usually has a decent amount of Vitamin K2, which would help direct the calcium where it needs to go and away from arteries. However I highly doubt someone drinking a lot of dairy could negate the effects of the excessive calcium (cal:mag ratio) without eating A LOT of magnesium rich foods. The upsetting of the cal:mag balance in the body is likely the biggest problem when drinking lots of dairy.
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raw vs. cooked
big difference
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raw vs. cooked
big difference
Link? Study? Or your own anecdotal experience? ANYTHING to support your stance?
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application of heat is probably the most physically altering process any object can undergo.
If you disagree perhaps you should join a different forum and stop going through all the trouble of getting getting so much raw food.
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Dude, calm it down.
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I'm really not trying to argue (and really don't want to revert to senseless name calling or anything else). But the research I've seen showing raw vs. cooked has mainly demonstrated that amino acids (protein), fatty acids (fat), cholesterol, enzymes and carbohydrates are changed by cooking.
I've actually never seen anything showing that calcium, iodine, magnesium, etc. are changed by heat. That's why I ask if you have any actual evidence to support that.
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I'm really not trying to argue (and really don't want to revert to senseless name calling or anything else). But the research I've seen showing raw vs. cooked has mainly demonstrated that amino acids (protein), fatty acids (fat), cholesterol, enzymes and carbohydrates are changed by cooking.
I've actually never seen anything showing that calcium, iodine, magnesium, etc. are changed by heat. That's why I ask if you have any actual evidence to support that.
I've not seen any evidence that shows that the minerals are significantly changed by the temperatures used in cooking. I'm not saying that they're not, but I've seen no real evidence.
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The form of the mineral may very well change; what it is bound to. Calcium bicarbonate is prevalent in our water. I have no clue if this form is bioavailable but it is so prominent that our pH is usually about 7.8-8.1, very alkaline. It is very heavy when it dries out and leaves a white film on the soil. We have to run sulfuric acid through our lines to drop the pH to a "life sustaining" level for our trees. We don't drink the sulfuric water. Calcium bicarbonate is a calcium atom bound to two carbons, and the two carbons make it a very dense molecule. I would imagine it would take a lot of heat to break them down, or even if boiling our water would affect the pH. That would be an interesting experiment, though sadly I don't have the resources (and only some of the knowledge) to correctly complete an experiment to see if it was the calcium bicarbonate breaking down or something else.
From an interesting little page I found searching for heat related stuff; http://water.me.vccs.edu/courses/ENV115/lesson9.htm (http://water.me.vccs.edu/courses/ENV115/lesson9.htm)
In addition to having different removal methods, carbonate and noncarbonate hardness can cause different problems. Carbonate hardness is the most common and is responsible for the deposition of calcium carbonate scale in pipes and equipment. The equation below shows how this deposition is formed in the presence of heat:
Calcium bicarbonate ? Calcium carbonate + Water + Carbon dioxide
Ca(HCO3)2 ? CaCO3 + H2O + CO2
Heat does seem to break down the bicarbonate into carbonate. Is one more bioavailable than the other?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_carbonate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_carbonate)
Eggshells, snail shells and most seashells are predominantly calcium carbonate and can be used as industrial sources of that chemical. [6] Oyster shells have enjoyed recent recognition as a source of dietary calcium, but are also a practical industrial source.[7][8] While not practical as an industrial source, dark green vegetables such as Broccoli and Kale contain dietarily significant amounts of calcium carbonate.[9]
Calcium bicarbonate is many times more soluble in water than calcium carbonate—indeed it exists only in solution.
Calcium carbonate will react with water that is saturated with carbon dioxide to form the soluble calcium bicarbonate.
CaCO3 + CO2 + H2O ? Ca(HCO3)2
This reaction is important in the erosion of carbonate rocks, forming caverns, and leads to hard water in many regions.
So bicarbonate is the form in solution, carbonate is outside of solution, as a solid mineral rock or precipitate of water.
Tough to say for certain the effect of heat on minerals but for this one, heat seems somewhat irrelevant to overall effect desired from the mineral, that is getting calcium.