Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum

Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Hot Topics => Topic started by: Dr. D on September 07, 2013, 11:48:08 pm

Title: TED talk on population growth
Post by: Dr. D on September 07, 2013, 11:48:08 pm
http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_on_global_population_growth.html (http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_on_global_population_growth.html)
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: cherimoya_kid on September 08, 2013, 12:21:11 am
GoodSamaritan, you might want to watch this.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: van on September 08, 2013, 01:19:17 am
GoodSamaritan, you might want to watch this.
  I was thinking the same thing
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: Iguana on September 08, 2013, 03:41:44 am
A relevant comment, below the video:

Quote
John Taves

Aug 7 2013: These projections are irrelevant. They are very sophisticated projections of the past to the future. Which is to say that they are extremely sophisticated nonsense.

These projections do not consider the fact that we do not know how to keep 7 billion humans alive at one time without consuming fossil fuels. Fossil fuels will become scarce. Any projection that goes for more than a few years must pay lip service to this concept, but none of these projections do anything of the sort.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: Aura on September 08, 2013, 03:51:50 am
I just finished watching this video and...

According to him wider access to education, mobile phones and  bycicles will stop population growth in the poor countries elevating them to a new developing status where technology/family planning/medicines/future and present tech foods (GMOs)  will be the key-roles in decreasing population growth.

I (sadly) agree with him.

Basically he is taking the sickest possible example of the western world societies today (which he himself call the "wealthiest and healthiest") to lead the rest of humanity, pushing the poor  to "develop" and get sick (or sicker) than what they are now.
On his diagram he only measures mortality but does not consider the disease rate which it is the most important thing to observe because probably most of the western children taken out of medication would not survive one next generation..

And this plan will not only decrease population but IMO cause it to extinct humanity as a whole. And while it is doing that, will make the rich (the old western, as he calls it) even richer.
IMO he is not providing a healthy way to address the problem. He is just reducing numbers without calculating the exponential risks. His concepts reminds me of Hitler with the difference that this would pass as a legalized way to kill and live - experiment without even asking for consent.

My conclusion is that a world society based on medicine, technology and man made foods is going to see its end sooner than we think and therefore as long as we do that, there is not even need to worry about the year 2050 or more..

A society based upon death and destruction will inevitably guide its end into the void.





Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: Iguana on September 08, 2013, 05:41:20 am
Sharp analysis!
Just one remark:
Quote
And this plan will not only decrease population but IMO cause it to extinct humanity as a whole.

Wouldn't it be more realistic to say that, with or without this plan (or any other plan  ;)), humanity is at high risk of extinction, with a decrease of population which can in no way be gentle and gradual, but only catastrophically and dramatically brutal?   

Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: Aura on September 08, 2013, 06:16:10 am
Wouldn't it be more realistic to say that, with or without this plan (or any other plan  ;)), humanity is at high risk of extinction, with a decrease of population which can in no way be gentle and gradual, but only catastrophically and dramatically brutal?
By "this plan" I meant the technoindustrial one in general, not just his..
I do not know if there are feasible alternative plans for humanity.

I followed some other TEDtalks about similar topics and they were all pointing to technology, processed food and calling "poor people" the few humans with some freedom left on this world.

And they call them : Ideas worth spreading..
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: goodsamaritan on September 08, 2013, 12:01:07 pm
I grew up in the social class with cars, air travel and contraception (family planning)... the soon to be extinct class of people... as most of them are in the medical paradigm and choose to be extinct via sacrificing their prime reproductive ages to "college" and "further" education.

I rather view population projections as something that motivates me and my descendants to SURVIVE the on going extinction apocalypse now happening with my own friends and relatives.  I saw those projections way back in 1995.

As I explained to my 10 year old boy while he was interviewing me for his home work... my life story and dream was to always be a grand father to a big cohort of descendants / grandchildren and great grand children... why attending grand reunions was always a happy thing... why I should have my own biological family tree succeed and be bountiful given the conditions today.

Why just as my father in law and my mother in law grew up in the same class conditions but exercised their FREEDOM TO CHOOSE to procreate a plenty when after a PHD in Stanford Law my in-laws already had 1 child born in the USA and were given the invitation to be US citizens... my father in law's host family taught them birth control / contraception / family planning... but both my in-laws CHOSE their dream to have MORE CHILDREN as the USA conditions they were in made it difficult to raise more than 1 child (no extended family, no nannies)... so they turned down USA citizenship and went back to MANILA and eventually created 8 children... because they CHOSE TO. (my father in law is an atheist)

Although statistics are nice... some of us are still able to CHOOSE FREELY and will doggedly pursue our own personal dreams... and will ADJUST to the present and future conditions just to LIVE and to THRIVE.

My own personal adjustment is if WIFE is no longer capable of making children... OTHER WOMEN can be tapped to make more children.  We should find a way out of urban living and move out to provincial wide open spaces living to encourage more baby making.

If my sons will be growing up in a time when the FERTILITY RATE in the big city manila is to drop to 1 child per woman, then they will avoid government marriage at all costs... I am teaching them now to NOT get government marriage because there is no point in marrying a woman who will only give 1 child.  That 1 woman is not worth as their grandmother who gave birth to 8 children. 

Already my brother in law did not get legal paper marriage to make his 2 sons with his current live in partner... and he chose a woman who comes from a POORER social class and province where having 5 children per woman is the NORM... so you could say he subcontracted a POORER less educated woman (yet healthy and beautiful) to be able to make his children... he learned from a previous more sophisticated live in partner where he spent an entire year living in with in a swanky upscale condominium gave him zero children... money down the drain.

So I grew up wanting to SURVIVE the contraception holocaust hoax... I always dreamt of being a grand father and became a pro-life volunteer in 2003.  Atheist - Pro-Natal - Pro-life.  Choose to inherit this earth.  Let the others who want to be extinct be extinct.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: Iguana on September 08, 2013, 03:26:14 pm
Aura : ok.

GS : I find difficult to grasp how your own descendants would thrive while the other people would go to extinction.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: goodsamaritan on September 08, 2013, 05:25:08 pm
Aura : ok.

GS : I find difficult to grasp how your own descendants would thrive while the other people would go to extinction.


Its just like choosing raw paleo diets vs western medical approved diets.  You know the outcome.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: Iguana on September 08, 2013, 06:18:39 pm
But why your descendants would necessarily adopt your ideas and your way of living?

Moreover, the health troubles caused by cooked food generally happen late in life, after the individuals had ample time to reproduce and care of their offspring.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: goodsamaritan on September 08, 2013, 07:56:28 pm
But why your descendants would necessarily adopt your ideas and your way of living?

Because I'm a hands on parent.
Because I do not abdicate my children's "education" to the government, schools or TV, population control propaganda.
And I'm friends with fellow pro-lifers and pro-natalists.
And if you bet on enough children, some of them may survive the coming contraceptive extinction planned out for them.
Because I teach them these pro-life, pro-natal lessons to them.
Because I'm the one responsible for their sex and health education.
Grandma and grandpa live with us and teach great sex education as well.

Why do my kids know music theory and play various instruments and play very well with the harp?  Because we chose a school that teaches music very well (waldorf education), and my wife gives our children personal lessons and tutors them personally, and the grand parents and aunts encourage them.

Just as parents here teach raw paleo diets and health theories to their own children.  My children know and have experienced raw paleo diet healing.  My first born is fully on paleo diet.  And he owes a lot of his healing to raw paleo diets.  Kids have seen me heal people hands on with various techniques... it rubs off on them.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: Iguana on September 08, 2013, 09:18:15 pm
 Ok, you seem to be an excellent father. Let's hope it will work up to the next generations...

But meanwhile, the population explosion won't gradually and serenely stop before reverting to a sustainable level. I know you believe the Earth has unlimited resources in easily accessible oil. Even if it were true, which is clearly not the case, other resources are drastically and rapidly dwindling — fish stocks and wildlife, for example. They won’t suffice to feed a population of several billions people.
 

Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: goodsamaritan on September 08, 2013, 09:59:37 pm
No worries. The demographic winter is upon us.

The population controllers have been pretty much successful. 
If you believe in population explosion... then give the population controllers a pat on the back and congratulate them for a job well done.

Have you checked the diving fertility rates yourself?

Google fertility rate + country.

Each and every country except the African continent will reach or has reached below replacement or just replacement fertility rates.

I would like to invite all raw paleo diet forum people to examine the statistics themselves.

See the full video:

Demographic Winter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxUD8E-qbyI#ws)


Synopsis
Demographic Winter: Decline of the Human Family

One of the most ominous events of modern history is quietly unfolding.  Social scientists and economists agree - we are headed toward a demographic winter which threatens to have catastrophic social and economic consequences.  The effects will be severe and long lasting and are already becoming manifest in much of Europe.

A groundbreaking film, Demographic Winter: Decline of the Human Family, reveals in chilling soberness how societies with diminished family influence are now grimly seen as being in social and economic jeopardy.

Demographic Winter draws upon experts from all around the world - demographers, economists, sociologists, psychologists, civic and religious leaders, parliamentarians and diplomats.  Together, they reveal the dangers facing society and the world's economies, dangers far more imminent than global warming and at least as severe.  These experts will discuss how:

The "population bomb" not only did not have the predicted consequences, but almost all of the developed countries of the world are now experiencing fertility rates far below replacement levels.  Birthrates have fallen so low that even immigration cannot replace declining populations, and this migration is sapping strength from developing countries, the fertility rates for many of which are now falling at a faster pace than did those of the developed countries.

The economies of the world will continue to contract as the "human capital" spoken of by Nobel Prize winning economist Gary Becker, diminishes.   The engines of commerce will be strained as the workers of today fail to replace themselves and are burdened by the responsibility to support an aging population.

Government programs will slow-bleed by the decrease in tax dollars received from an ever shrinking work force.  The skyrocketing ratio of the old retirees to the young workers will render current-day social security systems completely unable to support the aging population.

Our attempts to modernize through social engineering policies and programs have left children growing up in broken homes, with absentee parents and little exposure to extended family, disconnected from the generations, and these children are experiencing severe psychological, sociological and economic consequences.  The intact family's immeasurable role in the development and prosperity of human societies is crumbling. 

The influence of social and economic problems on ever shrinking, increasingly disconnected generations will compound and accelerate the deterioration.  Our children and our children's children will bear the economic and social burden of regenerating the "human capital" that accounts for 80% of wealth in the economy, and they will be ill-equipped to do so. 

Is there a "tipping point", after which the accelerating consequences will make recovery impossible without complete social and economic collapse?  Even the experts can't tell us how far we can go down this road, oblivious to the outcomes, until we reach a point where sliding into the void becomes unpreventable.

Only if the political incorrectness of talking about the natural family within policy circles is overcome will solutions begin to be found.  These solutions will necessarily result in policy changes, changes that will support and promote the natural, intact family. 

Just as it took the cumulative involvement of activist organizations, policy makers, the business world and the media to create the unintended consequences we are beginning to experience, so it will take the holistic contribution of all of these entities, together with civic and religious organizations, to change the hearts and minds of all of society to bring about a reversal. 

It may be too late to avoid some very severe consequences, but with effort we may be able to preclude calamity.  Demographic Winter lays out a forthright province of discussion.  The warning voices in this film need to be heard before a silent, portentous fall turns into a long, hard winter.

Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: Iguana on September 08, 2013, 11:31:02 pm
Each and every country except the African continent will reach or has reached below replacement or just replacement fertility rates.
I had a look at the Wikipedia page you linked. It only shows that the total fertility rate (TFR) is decreasing. But the World’s population still grows and the forecasts predict it will still continue to grow. By the way I didn’t know that we are already over the 7 billion mark…

Quote
   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_world
The total fertility rate of the World is estimated as 2.52 children per woman, which is above the replacement fertility rate of approximately 2.1. However, world population growth is unevenly distributed, going from .91 in Macau, to 7.68 in Niger. The United Nations estimated an annual population increase of 1.14% for the year of 2000.[6]

There are approximately 3.38 billion females in the World. The number of males is about 3.41 billion. People under 14 years of age made up over a quarter of the world population (26.3%), and people age 65 and over made up less than one-tenth (7.9%) in 2011.[2]

The world population growth is approximately 1.09%
[2]

The world population more than tripled during the 20th century from about 1.65 billion in 1900 to 5.97 billion in 1999.[7][8][9][10]

It reached the 2 billion mark in 1927, the 3 billion mark in 1960, 4 billion in 1974, and 5 billion in 1987.[11] Currently, population growth is fastest among low wealth, third world countries.[12]

The UN projects a world population of 9.15 billion in 2050, which is a 32.69% increase from 2010 (6.89 billion).[7]


A paleo-like level would be... no more than 5 million ! (see graph below)
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: cherimoya_kid on September 08, 2013, 11:55:42 pm
the population has almost doubled in the last 30 years.  How can ANYONE say we don't have enough people?

Craziness.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: goodsamaritan on September 09, 2013, 08:21:53 am
It is TIME to talk MATH and STATISTICS.

Raw Paleo Dieters are smart and will understand DEMOGRAPHIC basics.

Distilled Demographics: Deciphering Population Pyramids
Distilled Demographics: Deciphering Population Pyramids (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSoSYm4AOls#ws)

Demographic Transition and Population Pyramids
Unit 2 - Demographic Transition and Population Pyramids (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nonCD5GR9bw#)

After you guys and gals have digested the 2 above videos, I will post the next education material.

It's just plain math.

We all need to exercise patience as the population statistics work themselves out over decades.

Demography is destiny.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: cherimoya_kid on September 09, 2013, 08:25:39 am
You're right. it IS just plain math.

The world population has doubled since I was born.  THAT'S math. ROFL
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: goodsamaritan on September 09, 2013, 08:27:50 am
You're right. it IS just plain math.

The world population has doubled since I was born.  THAT'S math. ROFL

And did you not even take into account the depopulation success of the imperial policy of NSSM 200 written by Henry Kissinger?

I will discuss and show fertility rates later on.

I told you you needed patience.

Please view the videos.  You cannot possibly have seen nor digested the videos in that short amount of time to reply.

Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: LePatron7 on September 09, 2013, 11:21:13 am
I think it's important to be able to reproduce and produce healthy offspring. Not only is it important for ensuring future generations can enjoy being alive and live free of suffering from degenerative diseases. But being able to produce healthy offspring typically means you're pretty healthy which makes life more enjoyable.

But I'm ok with birth control. Again I think it's essential to be able to produce healthy offspring and be very healthy. But I don't see why certain new birth control methods can't be a part of that. Fact is humans live in a way that's unsustainable, and the last thing we need is for the population to keep sky rocketing.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: Iguana on September 09, 2013, 09:04:28 pm
The world population has doubled since I was born.  THAT'S math. ROFL
Ah, you young kid! It tripled during my life…  ;)

GS, I watched both videos. Interesting but we know it. We know that industrialized countries have an increasing problem of population aging and thus there won’t be enough working people to pay for the retirement of elders — or at least the great number of old people no longer able to work will be a huge burden on the shoulders of younger ones.

We also know that the total fertility rate is decreasing. But the population of planet Earth continues to increase and is expected to still increase at least until 2050 before stabilizing and perhaps even decrease. That is a projection extrapolated of the current situation, with plenty of cheap energy available from oil, and therefore an economic growth of “developing countries” comparable to what happened in the west. But it is extremely unlikely to happen this way.

Moreover, the current state of world’s population (more than 7 billion) is in no way sustainable, even more so with the dwindling of natural resources which is taken place at a very fast rate.   

Fact is humans live in a way that's unsustainable, and the last thing we need is for the population to keep sky rocketing.
Exactly!
   
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: cherimoya_kid on September 09, 2013, 09:22:11 pm
And did you not even take into account the depopulation success of the imperial policy of NSSM 200 written by Henry Kissinger?

I will discuss and show fertility rates later on.

I told you you needed patience.

Please view the videos.  You cannot possibly have seen nor digested the videos in that short amount of time to reply.




Are you familiar with the Renaissance in Europe, a time of scientific, cultural, and economic flowering?  Did you know that the lives of peasants were generally a lot better in the Renaissance than in the Middle Ages? Do you know the main reason that the Renaissance happened? 

The Black Plague, that's the main reason. Suddenly there went from being more than enough peasants to work the land, to not enough peasants. As a result, landowners had to treat peasants  better, including giving them more money.  Otherwise, the peasants would leave and go down the road to the next estate, which was paying better and treating peasants better.

Because peasants had more money, they could afford to become more educated.  As a result, the average level of education in Europe became much higher, and everyone in Europe benefited. There was less grinding poverty and general misery.

This is why people want to reduce the birth rate in 3rd-world countries. 
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: cherimoya_kid on September 09, 2013, 09:24:44 pm
Your videos did make a good point, though, Edwin.  I will say that things potentially look pretty bad for the developed countries 10-15 years from now, unless we can get robotic automation to perform enough of our work for us.  We just won't have enough people to perform all this work, unless we can automate it.  Importing foreign workers won't completely fill the gap, because they'd have to learn English and be acculturated, and then learn the specific job skills.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: Iguana on September 10, 2013, 12:01:39 am
The Black Plague, that's the main reason. Suddenly there went from being more than enough peasants to work the land, to not enough peasants. As a result, landowners had to treat peasants  better, including giving them more money.  Otherwise, the peasants would leave and go down the road to the next estate, which was paying better and treating peasants better.

Because peasants had more money, they could afford to become more educated.  As a result, the average level of education in Europe became much higher, and everyone in Europe benefited. There was less grinding poverty and general misery.
It’s both interesting and logical. The denser the population is in a certain area, the worse are the living conditions — at least for people like us. I left my home town because it has become so crowded and congested that life there has very much deteriorated.

We are meant to live in small tribal groups of less than 150 people having an almost unlimited area to gather and hunt. “Sex at Dawn” http://sexatdawn.com/ (http://sexatdawn.com/) pages 108-109:
Quote
Noticing the importance of grooming behavior in social primates, British anthropologist Robin Dunbar plotted overall group size against the neocortical development of the brain. Using this correlation, he predicted that humans start losing track of who’s doing what to whom when group size hits about 150 individuals. In Dunbar’s words, “The limit imposed by neocortical processing capacity is simply on the number of individuals with whom a stable inter-personal relationship can be maintained.”7 Other anthropologists had arrived at the same number by observing that when group sizes grew much beyond that, they tend to split into two smaller groups. Writing several years before Dunbar’s paper was published in 1992, Marvin Harris noted, “With 50 people per band or 150 per village, everybody knew everybody else intimately, so that the bonding of reciprocal exchange could hold people together. People gave with the expectation of taking and took with the expectation of giving.”8 Recent authors, including Malcolm Gladwell in his best-selling The Tipping Point, have popularized the idea of 150 being a limit to organically functioning groups.

Having evolved in small, intimate bands where everybody knows our name, human beings aren’t very good at dealing with the dubious freedoms conferred by anonymity. When communities grow beyond the point where every individual has at least a passing acquaintance with everyone else, our behavior changes, our choices shift, and our sense of the possible and of the acceptable grows ever more abstract.

The same argument can be made concerning the tragic misunderstanding of human nature that underlies communism: community ownership doesn’t work in large-scale societies where people operate in anonymity.

The last phrase is exactly what a told a leftist girlfriend 36 years ago. She was telling me:
“Communism works, we have experimented it between my husband and me !”
I laughed and replied:
“Of course, it can even work on a small Pacific island where everyone knows each other !”

Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: svrn on October 06, 2013, 02:27:15 am
TED talks is such a joke. I dont think iv ever heard anything out of them other than leftist elitist propaganda.

THe quote from this article sums up tedtalks quite nicely.
http://www.newstatesman.com/martin-robbins/2012/09/trouble-ted-talks (http://www.newstatesman.com/martin-robbins/2012/09/trouble-ted-talks)

"Ultimately, the TED phenomenon only makes sense when you realise that it’s all about the audience. TED Talks are designed to make people feel good about themselves; to flatter them and make them feel clever and knowledgeable; to give them the impression that they’re part of an elite group making the world a better place. People join for much the same reason they join societies like Mensa: it gives them a chance to label themselves part of an intellectual elite. That intelligence is optional, and you need to be rich and well-connected to get into the conferences and the exclusive fringe parties and events that accompany them, simply adds to the irresistible allure. TED’s slogan shouldn’t be ‘Ideas worth spreading’, it should be: ‘Ego worth paying for’."

and do all you population controllers live in cities? They usually do as anyone who lives in the country knows that if they go out driving to the store or something theyll see miles and miles of nothing everywhere they go. People need to use their own brains. The fact is all of america can move into texas with 2 acres of land per person.

Every ted talk iv seen has just been pushing varying aspects of the new world order.

ANd who does anyone think they are to be controlling the population anyway. What makes them the deciders of who lives and dies? If there ever were too many people on the planet, people would die off until a balance was reached. No need to poison or sterilize anyone.

What a bunch of sick control freaks.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 06, 2013, 11:34:55 am

ANd who does anyone think they are to be controlling the population anyway. What makes them the deciders of who lives and dies? If there ever were too many people on the planet, people would die off until a balance was reached. No need to poison or sterilize anyone.

What a bunch of sick control freaks.

The Renaissance was brought about by the Black Plague.  So many peasants were killed by the plague that the ones that survived were able to negotiate better pay and working conditions ( because suddenly peasants were in short supply, and therefore more valuable to land-owning nobles), which then led to them becoming more educated, and the cycle continued. Voila!  Renaissance.

Do we really have to have a Plague to make things better for the poor?  Why can't we just teach people about birth control?
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 06, 2013, 04:45:41 pm
Check the fertility rates in your respective countries and post here the fertility rates in 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990, 2000, 2010... From there you will know if your country is doing a good job educating people not to reproduce.

Go on... Post em and lets see.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 06, 2013, 09:34:38 pm
Of course the fertility rate in developed countries goes down over time. Once you start educating women and giving them freedom, they decide to have careers and maybe 1 or 2 children, instead of 4 or 5 children.  And that's a good thing.  Larger populations lead to wars, poverty, social unrest, and disease.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: svrn on October 07, 2013, 08:44:39 am
i almost forgot that theres no point in arguing with someone who swallows reality as its presented to them.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: sabertooth on October 07, 2013, 09:26:25 am
TED talks is such a joke. I dont think iv ever heard anything out of them other than leftist elitist propaganda.



Yes I agree, but if you look at it through the eyes of a skeptic then you can see through the propaganda and broaden your own point of view.
Many of the talks Ive seen are blatantly pretentiously leftist.

Malthusian rubbish that does little to explain anything, it more or less indoctrinates us with an extremely narrow point of view on a topic that involves the lives of 7 billion plus.

The whole idea that having only  two children per household makes for a healthier and more structured world is an assumption, that cant be made without grossly generalizing the multiplicity of factors involved.

It has a grain of truth which is appealing to academia types who have never experienced places in the world where extended family's are capable of producing and caring for large numbers of children who grow up to be productive and strong members of a caring community.

Of course the modern economic model has created a segment of the population who would find raising 12 children on a dairy farm in northern California, unappealing.

I may be dreaming again, but I feel that the real conflict is about values. If you value a ,modern consumerist culture over a rural and family centered life then TEDs ideals will appeal to you. Its hard not to see all the trends of urbanization and not view over population as a threat to quality of life. Crack hoods and welfare moms with absent fathers, a generation of children raised on the boob tube. A world full of "Those People" would suck.

Its easy for me to see where the fear of overpopulation is coming from. But one shouldn't be carried away by such fears to the point where you fail to see that out there in among the multitudes there are diamonds in the Rough. Its not about quantity , its about quality. Which is a touchy subject, since the aftermath of WW2 in which millions of the strongest and most capable men were taken out of the population.

 Instead of restricting the natural inclination to reproduce in everybody, there needs to be a more pragmatically holistic approach, that would encourage more intelligent and productive members of the population to have children, while discouraging those who would be neglectful parents from having children. 

Not an easy task for sure, but who said building a greater humanity was easy.

 If the great foundations that push the population control propaganda would spend an equal amount of resources in endeavors that encourage the better nature in people and promotes responsible population growth , with an emphasis on responsible resource management. Then overpopulation wouldn't be a problem at all. More people of better quality would be a blessing.

Instead there is a maniacal focus on vaccinations, food aid(gruel rations), educational indoctrination, and other such shenanigans which are sold as humanitarian aid, but only weaken a populations ability to sustain themselves in the long run.

But perhaps that's all a part of the 1%s evil plan.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 07, 2013, 09:53:09 am
i almost forgot that theres no point in arguing with someone who swallows reality as its presented to them.

So personal insults count as arguments?  ;)
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 07, 2013, 10:53:13 am
Of course the fertility rate in developed countries goes down over time. Once you start educating women and giving them freedom, they decide to have careers and maybe 1 or 2 children, instead of 4 or 5 children.  And that's a good thing.  Larger populations lead to wars, poverty, social unrest, and disease.

Presentations of fertility rates graphs of 50 years from each of your countries is precisely what is needed in this forum.

I would personally like to quench each and every alarmist reflex from all of you to calm down and see how SUCCESSFUL population controllers ALREADY HAVE BEEN.

So there is no use kicking a dead horse.  It has been done in most of our respective countries.

The population controllers have already won.

The website Zero Population Growth has CHANGED its name to Population Connection.

That gives you a CLUE where we are right now in 2013.

I know raw paleo dieters are without dogma and will see the facts presented as is.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: van on October 07, 2013, 11:17:22 am
GS what is your point?  Do you think there should be unlimited population growth?
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 07, 2013, 11:22:45 am
GS what is your point?  Do you think there should be unlimited population growth?

This was my entire point:

Presentations of fertility rates graphs of 50 years from each of your countries is precisely what is needed in this forum.

I would personally like to quench each and every alarmist reflex from all of you to calm down and see how SUCCESSFUL population controllers ALREADY HAVE BEEN.

So there is no use kicking a dead horse.  It has been done in most of our respective countries.

The population controllers have already won.

The website Zero Population Growth has CHANGED its name to Population Connection.

That gives you a CLUE where we are right now in 2013.

I know raw paleo dieters are without dogma and will see the facts presented as is.

-------------

As to far far future... we humans should be colonizing stars and planets.  We can and should do it eventually. 

-------------

van, I  think more personally than thinking of influencing the entire global policy of the elite... of which I am personally incapable of. 

I stick to what I can do for myself and my descendants.

------------

I have KNOWN that the population controllers had already won as far back as the 1990s.

This is what influenced me to strive to PERSONALLY make more babies for myself and work hard for my descendants to similarly strive to make more babies... for our PERSONAL SURVIVAL.  I know as hard as I try the depopulation hysteria is ingrained and the massive unhealthiness of the medical mafia will victimize my own descendants.  So I will just have to play probabilities and do my best so my blood line does not get liquidated.

It's just like doom preparedness.  You know doom is coming and my reaction is to prepare for it.

Some people have to inherit this earth.  Let my descendants be some of them.

Now most people willingly will sacrifice and allow the liquidation of their own personal bloodline for their depopulation beliefs.  I say good for you and let you guys liquidate your blood lines all you like. 

I would like to be respected just as well and let me do what I want to do with my personal life.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: svrn on October 07, 2013, 11:40:36 am
So personal insults count as arguments?  ;)

I wasnt trying to be insulting only attempting to state my own personal experience.

Do you claim that you havent swallowed reality as it has been presented to you in this subject? If so how are your views on this subject any different from what is being promoted by the top propogandists of our era? Which mainstream organization is out there promoting an opposite view on this topic?

Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 07, 2013, 12:35:41 pm
I wasnt trying to be insulting only attempting to state my own personal experience.

Do you claim that you havent swallowed reality as it has been presented to you in this subject? If so how are your views on this subject any different from what is being promoted by the top propogandists of our era? Which mainstream organization is out there promoting an opposite view on this topic?



It's blood simple.  Things get better for the lower classes when population growth reverses.  When population increases, what you're mostly making is just more people who are poor, uneducated, and miserable.  They become disease-ridden (physically, emotionally, etc.), and serve only a negative function in society.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 08, 2013, 09:23:27 am
I have plotted this fertility rate graph of different countries of people I've seen here in rawpaleodietforum.com

See the live link http://www.google.com.ph/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=sp_dyn_tfrt_in&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:DEU:FRA:JPN:PHL:SGP:GBR:USA:CAN:RUS:BRA:ZAF:POL&ifdim=region&hl=en&dl=en&ind=false (http://www.google.com.ph/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=sp_dyn_tfrt_in&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:DEU:FRA:JPN:PHL:SGP:GBR:USA:CAN:RUS:BRA:ZAF:POL&ifdim=region&hl=en&dl=en&ind=false)

And the fertility rate graph generated and taken a screen shot off.

As all of you can all plainly see... POPULATION CONTROL for the past 50 years has been VERY SUCCESSFUL.

This is what I mean when I want all to see and learn and see the graphs... see the trend for 50 years.

Point every population explosion alarmist to this graph so that they may now CALM DOWN... and be happy with the successful population control efforts!

So there are a few outlying statistical blips like Sabertooth's ex-wife who wants 5+ children... let her be... do not condemn people like her.

So there are men who have lots more children with many women... hell it's because those women usually in the 21st century can't compare to a 1960s woman.  Yet the fertility rate stays the same because the demographers do not bother to count how many children men have.

And then there is the more common today childless zero children men and women... should they be given commendation medals for being outliers?

In the past, nation states gave medals to mothers who had lots of children.

It all depends on the mood of the current years. 

They give commendation medals to war monger nation states soldiers these days for the gratitude of killing people all over the world for the sake of population control.  Thank the medical mafia too... bullshit disease labeling... medical cures worse than the disease intentionally to kill people.

Raw paleo diet forum is doing a disservice to the population control empire by teaching people real health.  Making sick people immensely well, making women extremely fertile, easing birth and allowing women to make more children, and with children eventually reversing the destruction of their genetic code to better health.  Possibly the knowledge we gain here can be used for re-populating an eventually depopulated world!  And our forum can be publicly viewed!  Oh the horrors, the elite may take our knowledge away and lock it up for themselves.... the knowledge we spew out is dangerous.  It's too good.  It's all too healthy!
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: svrn on October 08, 2013, 10:04:50 am
It's blood simple.  Things get better for the lower classes when population growth reverses.  When population increases, what you're mostly making is just more people who are poor, uneducated, and miserable.  They become disease-ridden (physically, emotionally, etc.), and serve only a negative function in society.

so exactly which part of your response had any relevance to any of the questions I asked you?
I dont see why you quoted me since everything you said was completely irrelevant to my post. Perhaps quoting me was just a mistake?
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 08, 2013, 08:50:58 pm
so exactly which part of your response had any relevance to any of the questions I asked you?
I dont see why you quoted me since everything you said was completely irrelevant to my post. Perhaps quoting me was just a mistake?

I'm pointing out that an increase in population has negative side effects, whereas the opposite has positive side effects.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: svrn on October 09, 2013, 01:34:40 am
...this is so frustrating.....

please point to exactly which part of my statement which  you initially quoted has anything to do with your two responses to that quote. Exactly which question was any of that n answer to?

Its truly rediculous how many irrelevant responses I am constantly inundated with.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 09, 2013, 01:52:06 am
...this is so frustrating.....

please point to exactly which part of my statement which  you initially quoted has anything to do with your two responses to that quote. Exactly which question was any of that n answer to?

Its truly rediculous how many irrelevant responses I am constantly inundated with.


We are talking about population growth, are we not?  At least I am.  If you're not, then you need to recognize that that is the topic at hand.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: Iguana on October 09, 2013, 05:10:38 am
Presentations of fertility rates graphs of 50 years from each of your countries is precisely what is needed in this forum.

As to far far future... we humans should be colonizing stars and planets.  We can and should do it eventually. 

Edwin, we agree that global fertility rates declines. But the point is that “at 2.52 children per woman, it is above the replacement fertility rate of approximately 2.1” and the population still grows annually at a rate of about 1.09 %, and at more than 7 billion it’s in no way sustainable: it’s a catastrophe.

Even if we were one day able to colonize planets of distant stars, it wouldn’t be a solution. Exporting annually 1% of a population of 7 billion would represent 70 million people leaving the Earth each year. A considerable fleet of huge and extremely fast space ships would be needed!  :o

Sebastian von Hoerner in “Population explosion and interstellar expansion”, shows that this could only solve the problem (at 1975 birth rate) for 500 years at most, the human bubble expanding faster and faster, this expansion reaching the speed of light after those mere 500 years… Thereafter, each colonized planet would gradually become more and more crowded and face the same problem we face now on Earth. >:

In addition, if we were ever able to reach some planets where conditions are more or less similar to Earth, chances are they would be already populated. Then, if the Galaxy is already colonized by non-destructive intelligent and technologically advanced beings, I doubt very much they would allow aggressive and destructive humans like us to wreak havoc all over the Galaxy.

Ah, yeah, perhaps they will allow our gentle paleo dieters offspring…      :)
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: sabertooth on October 09, 2013, 06:58:47 am
Honestly, I think the time will come when it will be necessary for the preservation of life on earth, to cull off the overgrowth of human life. The end will come when its our time, its foolish to fight it.

I don't trust scientific interventionism to have anything to do with managing the human population. Population control "Experts" make such negative assumptions about the nature of humanity and project a cynical reality from the view point that humanity is a blight upon the planet. If enough people chose to go along with the belief and project these delusions onto the world then they take on the appearance of reality. The very act of thinking the world is overpopulated should be considered a symptom of a delusional mind. Its very apparent that there are areas of the world where far to many people inhabit and this does cause problems, but to assume that the local problems of overcrowding represent a global excess of humans is preposterous.

Then there is the whole argument of misuses of resources and environmental pollution due to overpopulation, which does have some validity. Though these problems should be worked out separately from population control. 7 billion people under the current industrial system are doing a good job of polluting the earth. If people would focus on living sustainbly instead of wanting to lower the population so they can continue to live in industral excess, then a doubling or tripling of the population could occur without any seriously catastrophic effects.

Of course this is merely dreaming, because those who have the Wealth and technology of the world will not give up their standards or modes of living Materialism isn't going away. The negative aspects of human population growth are primarily problems caused by the growth of materialistic populations in the world.

Propaganda showing the overcrowded places of the world, landfills, and smoke stacks has been shown to virtually every school child of my generation. The reality is that where I live there are millions of acres on rolling hills of green pasture and woodlands where there is more than enough land to sustain many times the number of people who inhabit it today.

Humanity is alive now and will only last for a short while. So let the people breed like locust, and die out in mass after they have consumed every morsel to be found. The following seasons would bring renewal and new life, there is no need for human intervention, nature will take her course.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 09, 2013, 07:33:53 am
Quote
Edwin, we agree that global fertility rates declines. But the point is that “at 2.52 children per woman, it is above the replacement fertility rate of approximately 2.1” and the population still grows annually at a rate of about 1.09 %, and at more than 7 billion it’s in no way sustainable: it’s a catastrophe.

THIS ^^^ attitude is EXACTLY what I am up in arms about.

You are NEVER satisfied. (From say a high Fertility Rate of 7 children per woman... COME ON!)
You CANNOT even APPRECIATE the DECLINE of fertility rates over 50 years.
You CANNOT even give a pat on the back to your fellow DEPOPULATIONISTS... for their efforts, for their accomplishments... tell them they did a GOOD JOB!
You have to have some PATIENCE... some sense of TIME... and see how much more FERTILITY DECLINE will happen in the NEXT 50 years... the next 100 years... the next 200 years.

This attitude is the attitude of I WANT IT NOW.  Now now now.
If you really want it NOW NOW NOW, then you would have to resort to dropping nuclear bombs all over the world for a mass die off.  But somehow NSSM 200 depopulation policy of the Imperial USA written by Henry Kissinger stated that the depopulation methods using contraceptives and abortion are preferred over overt warfare such as what happened in WW2.

More about NSSM 200 here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Study_Memorandum_200 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Study_Memorandum_200)

But if you are HONEST with STATISTICS you would appreciate WHEN and how Fertility Rates relate to Population Pyramids and eventual Population Rate Decline and then ABSOLUTE POPULATION DECLINE.
All it takes is TIME TIME TIME.
Realistic demographic time.
Which happens not in the blink of an impatient person.

How about taking the case of the most ADVANCED country like JAPAN?
You know... conquered nation of WW2 so it paid the price of being depopulated?
See the STEEP fertility rate decline from 1950 to 1960... ultimate conquest of the USA over Japan.

The only problem with depopulating this country was they live to old ages.

According to the latest WHO data published in April 2011 life expectancy in Japan is: Male 79.5, female 85.8 and total life expectancy is 82.7 which gives Japan a World Life Expectancy ranking of 1.

Population actual and projections
(http://www9.ocn.ne.jp/~aslan/pfe/jpeak1.gif)

Fertility rate actual and projections
(http://www9.ocn.ne.jp/~aslan/pfe/tfre.gif)

See more Japan statistics here http://www9.ocn.ne.jp/~aslan/pfe/jpeak.htm (http://www9.ocn.ne.jp/~aslan/pfe/jpeak.htm)

Animated Population Pyramid of Japan 1930-2055 (males on the left - females on the right)... only females give birth.

(http://www.mutantfrog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/pyramid-a.gif)

Japan population had peaked in 2008 at 128,083,960 and is already declining... Are you going to say HOORAY on this?

Japan fertility rate 1.39 last 2012... that is BELOW replacement... Are you going to say HOORAY on this?

So look at Japan.  It wants nothing to do with immigration.  Unlike Europe and the USA who welcome immigrants to keep their birth rates up.

Sex Crisis In Japan? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=116w5U3QnbA#ws)

Japan's youngsters today, 60% of teenage women not interested in sex, 35% teenage boys not interested in sex, plus all the destruction that will be foisted upon all Japanese with the ongoing Fukushima nuclear disaster.

Can I get a CHEER of a HOORAY from you now with the example of JAPAN?

When will it ever be ENOUGH for you depopulation alarmists to finally CALM DOWN?

----

P.S.  It took me an hour to assemble this educational presentation so if we had a thanks button, I'd appreciate it.

----

Ask yourself why professional DEMOGRAPHERS had to make a film called Demographic Winter?  See attached poster.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: van on October 09, 2013, 10:20:03 am
GS  I can appreciate the time it took for you to compile the above,,and thanks.  I still don't understand why this is so important to YOU.  And what are your thoughts that as the population increases especially as a resultant of large families that have little means to support themselves financially,  what about those children?   No health care, going hungry, little chance for an education.  It's one thing for a family or a single mother with little to no income to take care of one, two, maybe three children, but when there's six or eight children, how fare is that.  And what is wrong with educating the mothers on how to use contraception?   For the life of me, I can't see how in the world you would find fault with that. 
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: Iguana on October 09, 2013, 01:00:43 pm
Thanks GS, nice work. But I agree with Van, sorry.

You show the doomed case of Japan, certainly the most technologically and industrially advanced nation (as you note). In the video, they speak too fast for me to fully understand what they say: I would have to listen to it several times. Anyway, I’m curious what is meant there by “not interested in sex”. Do they mean “not interested in genital intercourse”?

Why do you write that I “CANNOT even APPRECIATE the DECLINE of fertility rates over 50 years.”? Sorry, I plainly appreciate it.

I don’t know anything about “fellows DEPOPULATIONISTS”.

About the next 50, 100, 200 years, I fear they’ll be bleak. I do not want anything “now, now, now.” I only reckon there has been a huge, explosive, population growth since the Neolithic era and since then, humans have profiteered out of control and  spread havoc on the planet at an alarming increasing rate,  leading to an imminent catastrophe with most likely no time left anymore to avoid it – whether each of us have 20 or zero offspring…

If there is some truth in the concept of “galactic selection” http://tinyurl.com/o6rx9ou, (http://tinyurl.com/o6rx9ou,) any destructive - Neolithic – modern - agrarian – industrial society will self-destroy (or if it fails to do so, it will be destroyed) before being able to export havoc everywhere in the Galaxy.   
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: svrn on October 09, 2013, 03:33:26 pm
We are talking about population growth, are we not?  At least I am.  If you're not, then you need to recognize that that is the topic at hand.

why did you quote my questions when you didnt answer any of them? I fail to understand this.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 09, 2013, 04:09:40 pm
I think svrn and ck should just cool off. Your vibes are just clashing.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: Iguana on October 09, 2013, 04:26:36 pm
The very act of thinking the world is overpopulated should be considered a symptom of a delusional mind. Its very apparent that there are areas of the world where far to many people inhabit and this does cause problems, but to assume that the local problems of overcrowding represent a global excess of humans is preposterous.
….
a doubling or tripling of the population could occur without any seriously catastrophic effects.

The reality is that where I live there are millions of acres on rolling hills of green pasture and woodlands where there is more than enough land to sustain many times the number of people who inhabit it today.
Can you imagine what will happen to your millions acres of rolling hills and woodlands once energy, drinking water and food will be lacking in big cities? What population density do you estimate possible for sustainable hunting-gathering? Do you think 130 - 260 people and their dogs would happily, peacefully and durably sustain on a sq. mile only, whatever the climate, flora and fauna on such a limited area?

I don’t think so. Even the (fire using and cooking) Maoris who landed in virgin New Zealand a few centuries ago quickly depleted some of the natural food resources there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_density
The world's population is around 7 billion, and Earth's total area (including land and water) is 510 million square kilometers (197 million square miles). Therefore the worldwide human population density is around 7 billion ÷ 510 million = 13.7 per km2 (35 per sq. mile). If only the Earth's land area of 150 million km2 (58 million sq. miles) is taken into account, then human population density increases to 47 per km2 (120 per sq. mile). This includes all continental and island land area, including Antarctica. If Antarctica is also excluded, then population density rises to over 50 people per km2 (over 130 per sq. mile). However over half of the Earth's land mass consists of areas inhospitable to human habitation, such as deserts and high mountains, and population tends to cluster around seaports and fresh water sources. Thus this number by itself does not give any helpful measurement of human population density.


Quote
Humanity is alive now and will only last for a short while. So let the people breed like locust, and die out in mass after they have consumed every morsel to be found. The following seasons would bring renewal and new life, there is no need for human intervention, nature will take her course.
I more or less agree with that because I guess it’s late and the end of our civilization might well happen in a few decades.

BTW, did you receive the pdf of “Sex at Dawn” I sent you on Sept 18th?
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 09, 2013, 08:59:56 pm
why did you quote my questions when you didnt answer any of them? I fail to understand this.

Are you pretending not to understand what I'm pointing out, or just not understanding?

You are saying that population decreases are a BAD thing.  I am saying that history shows that they, at least for poor people, are a very GOOD thing, as far as alleviating poverty, misery, ignorance, etc..

I can definitely provide links for that, if you'd like. It's a given among historians that the Black Plague was the main reason for the Renaissance, though.  In addition, Paul Colinvaux shows in his book The Fates of Nations that population increases always are followed by a war of conquest, because a larger population needs more food/land, so that larger population attacks a neighboring country to take their food/land. 

This is what happened in Germany in the 1920s and 1930s.  They had a huge increase in population, followed by a war of conquest.  It happened many times in the steppes of Central Asia around Mongolia, where there would be a few good years of rainfall, which increased the amount of good green grass, which increased the number of animals born, which gave people more good food to eat, which allowed them to have more children.

Every time the Huns/Mongolians would attack China, Europe, etc., it was about 15-20 years after one of these periods of really good rainfall.  This is because it takes about 15-20 years for little boys to grow up into potential soldiers.  They had a bunch of extra boys (and girls), and not enough food for them, so...
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: Iguana on October 09, 2013, 09:06:41 pm
Absolutely, and it's an indisputable fact that overpopulation leads to wars.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: svrn on October 10, 2013, 04:27:38 am
Are you pretending not to understand what I'm pointing out, or just not understanding?

You are saying that population decreases are a BAD thing.  I am saying that history shows that they, at least for poor people, are a very GOOD thing, as far as alleviating poverty, misery, ignorance, etc..

I can definitely provide links for that, if you'd like. It's a given among historians that the Black Plague was the main reason for the Renaissance, though.  In addition, Paul Colinvaux shows in his book The Fates of Nations that population increases always are followed by a war of conquest, because a larger population needs more food/land, so that larger population attacks a neighboring country to take their food/land. 

This is what happened in Germany in the 1920s and 1930s.  They had a huge increase in population, followed by a war of conquest.  It happened many times in the steppes of Central Asia around Mongolia, where there would be a few good years of rainfall, which increased the amount of good green grass, which increased the number of animals born, which gave people more good food to eat, which allowed them to have more children.

Every time the Huns/Mongolians would attack China, Europe, etc., it was about 15-20 years after one of these periods of really good rainfall.  This is because it takes about 15-20 years for little boys to grow up into potential soldiers.  They had a bunch of extra boys (and girls), and not enough food for them, so...

i dont believe you are getting the point of waht iv been asking you.

anyway I think iv beaten this dead horse enough. seeing as my point is not to convince you but to convince the thousands of people who visit this site every day I will just leave it for said reader to decide.

I am now taking the advice of GS and cooling down. He is quite right, pointing out that which I should have realized already as he so often does :)
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: svrn on October 10, 2013, 04:31:54 am
Absolutely, and it's an indisputable fact that overpopulation leads to wars.

to call something indisputable is the end of critical thought and the beginning of dogmatic attatchment to ideas which is never healthy in my opinion.

overpopulation doesnt lead to wars international bankers creat wars with the joke of cousins sending off their people to kill each other off. This is summarized quite well in the following song.

There's so many of us
There's so many of us
There's so many
There's so many of us
There's so many of us
There's so many [x2]

[Sung]
Let's have a war
So you can go and die!
Let's have a war!
We could all use the money!
Let's have a war!
We need the space!
Let's have a war!
Clean out this place!

It already started in the city!
Suburbia will be just as easy!

[Chorus]

Let's have a war!
Jack up the Dow Jones!
Let's have a war!
It can start in New Jersey!
Let's have a war!
Blame it on the middle-class!
Let's have a war!
We're like rats in a cage!

It already started in the city!
Suburbia will be just as easy!

[Chorus]

Let's have a war!
Sell the rights to the networks!
Let's have a war!
General Motors get fat like last time!
Let's have a war!
Give guns to the queers!
Let's have a war!
The enemy's within!

It already started in the city!
Suburbia will be just as easy!

[Chorus x2]

FEAR - Let's Have a War (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJAlIHsXcLY#)
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 10, 2013, 06:03:40 am
OK, how about this?  If there's only one person on the planet, there can't be any wars, because there's no one to fight.  It logically follows, then, that, all other things being equal, the more PEOPLE there are, the greater the chance of WAR. :)
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: sabertooth on October 10, 2013, 07:09:15 am
The wars have raged since the dawn of civilization, back before this modern population explosion. War is something that happens for very complicated reasons reasons not connected directly to population growth.

I Like Guns and Roses view of war.

What we've got here is failure to communicate
Some men you just can't reach
So you get what we had here last week,
which is the way he wants it
Well, he gets it
N' I don't like it any more than you men


Look at your young men fighting
Look at your women crying
Look at your young men dying
The way they've always done before

Look at the hate we're breeding
Look at the fear we're feeding
Look at the lives we're leading
The way we've always done before

My hands are tied
The billions shift from side to side
And the wars go on with brainwashed pride
For the love of God and our human rights
And all these things are swept aside
By bloody hands time can't deny
And are washed away by your genocide
And history hides the lies of our civil wars

D'you wear a black armband
When they shot the man
Who said "peace could last forever"
And in my first memories
They shot Kennedy
I went numb when I learned to see
So I never fell for Vietnam
We got the wall of D.C. to remind us all
That you can't trust freedom
When it's not in your hands
When everybody's fightin'
For their promised land
And

I don't need your civil war
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor
Your power hungry sellin' soldiers
In a human grocery store
Ain't that fresh
I don't need your civil war
Ow, oh no, no, no, no, no

Look at the shoes you're filling
Look at the blood we're spilling
Look at the world we're killing
The way we've always done before
Look in the doubt we've wallowed
Look at the leaders we've followed
Look at the lies we've swallowed
And I don't want to hear no more

My hands are tied
For all I've seen has changed my mind
But still the wars go on as the years go by
With no love of God or human rights
'Cause all these dreams are swept aside
By bloody hands of the hypnotized
Who carry the cross of homicide
And history bears the scars of our civil wars

I don't need your civil war
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor
Your power hungry sellin' soldiers
In a human grocery store
Ain't that fresh
I don't need your civil war
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
I don't need your civil war
I don't need your civil war
Your power hungry sellin' soldiers
In a human grocery store
Ain't that fresh
I don't need your civil war
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no uh-oh-uh, no uh-oh, uh no
I don't need one more war

I don't need one more war
No, no, no, no uh-oh-uh, no uh-oh, uh no
Whaz so civil 'bout war anyway?

Guns N' Roses - Civil War with Lyrics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALhwQKTRAgA#)
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: sabertooth on October 10, 2013, 07:13:55 am
"WE PRACTICE SELECTIVE ANNIHILATION OF MAYORS AND GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS
FOR EXAMPLE TO CREATE A VACUUM
THEN WE FILL THAT VACUUM
AS POPULAR WAR ADVANCES
PEACE IS CLOSER" **
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: svrn on October 10, 2013, 10:10:13 am
between money lending, imbezzling tax money, selling weapons, stealing land, rebuilding destroyed cities, stealing natural resources, war is the number one way to make money. And theres many more aspects of making money in war, too many for me to mention.

The way to make money is to buy when blood is running in the streets.- John d. Rockefeller

Nowaday war definitly has nothing to do with population size. The western world is currently taking down every single country that does not cooperate in the current system of world government, usury, political correctness etc.

Every country we are invading now and in the future has been targeted long ago. this was revealed in 2007, take a look at that list and compare to whats happened since 2007, you will find the general was 100% telling the truth.

1. Gen. Wesley Clark, Democracy Now! interview, 2007 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSL3JqorkdU#)

this video puts the population causes war theory in the toilet.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 10, 2013, 10:23:14 am
War is about taking things from others.  the more "others" there are, and the more of "you" there are, the greater the chances of war.

And it really is that simple.

What you guys are having trouble with is facing the ultimate inconsistency of being AGAINST war and FOR population growth.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 10, 2013, 11:38:57 am
Someone is obviously screwing around with this conversation.

Sorry I fell for such a comment.

The cad.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 10, 2013, 12:44:06 pm
I don't think he's actually gay, is he?  Wife,  6 children, etc..
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 10, 2013, 12:50:26 pm
I don't think he's actually gay, is he?  Wife,  6 children, etc..

disinfo made by some cad seeking mischief.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: Iguana on October 10, 2013, 03:31:38 pm
LOL!  ?? What's that? I never wrote such a crappy text!  Someone makes fun of me. Please remove it.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: TylerDurden on October 10, 2013, 04:06:39 pm
GS, I am amazed you fell for this piece. It is obviously making  fun of Iguana and GCB. Please remove it. This reminds me of a similiar troll in the past  who mocked you and me in a post he pretended was sent by me.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 10, 2013, 04:21:34 pm
I will edit it out.

The cad.

Author : instincto drivel (more) (IP: 90.39.70.174 , AStrasbourg-752-1-27-174.w90-39.abo.wanadoo.fr)
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: Iguana on October 10, 2013, 04:44:03 pm
Thanks to both of you !
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 10, 2013, 06:40:28 pm
GS  I can appreciate the time it took for you to compile the above,,and thanks.  I still don't understand why this is so important to YOU.  And what are your thoughts that as the population increases especially as a resultant of large families that have little means to support themselves financially,  what about those children?   No health care, going hungry, little chance for an education.  It's one thing for a family or a single mother with little to no income to take care of one, two, maybe three children, but when there's six or eight children, how fare is that.  And what is wrong with educating the mothers on how to use contraception?   For the life of me, I can't see how in the world you would find fault with that. 

About the next 50, 100, 200 years, I fear they’ll be bleak. I do not want anything “now, now, now.” I only reckon there has been a huge, explosive, population growth since the Neolithic era and since then, humans have profiteered out of control and  spread havoc on the planet at an alarming increasing rate,  leading to an imminent catastrophe with most likely no time left anymore to avoid it – whether each of us have 20 or zero offspring…

Here are my observations of what you Van, CK and Iguana have not understood of my Point of View.

Even after you saw all the fertility rates going down down down to below replacement rate... you still assume a population explosion.

NO.  Slap your faces again to wake up from the population explosion mantra / DOGMA.

There will be no more population explosion.

Thanks to 50 years of population control efforts and present and future efforts, the population decline is ASSURED.

"Demographic Winter," is a documentary about the coming population DECLINE.


Just as the Roman Empire population declined due to contraceptive mindsets at 0-200 AD... it is happening AGAIN this 2000 to 2300 AD.

And THIS decline I see all around me is what I am preparing for personally.

Preparing myself, preparing my children... so that WE DO NOT GET WIPED OUT IN THE PROCESS.

Other people's blood lines will be decimated, eliminated in the coming population decline.

I am just a parent realizing the threat and danger to my blood line so I go into SURVIVAL MODE.

I explained this many years back to my Grand Parents and to My Parents... why their old fears about children marrying too early or having too many children is NO LONGER THE CASE for my generation and for my children's generation.

In Metro Manila the big metropolis where I live, the Fertility Rate today is around 1.7 children per woman, so in 20 - 30 years it is likely this metropolis will go the way of Hong Kong or Singapore and do a 1.0 or less fertility rate.

It's just a SURVIVAL RESPONSE on my part to do what I do.

I would be an evil hypocrite if I instead blogged to everyone else to contracept and abort their children when I would do the opposite for myself and my children.
My Pro-Life blogging will not succeed.  Only few will listen.

Just as I would be an evil hypocrite if I told and blogged to everyone to continue to eat a SAD diet while I go raw paleo diet.
Our raw paleo diet promotion will not succeed. Only few will listen.

Absolute Population DECLINE will happen probably in the next centuries.

Some people will INHERIT this EARTH after the big population decline in the next centuries and I consciously WISH and am working on for some of those people to be MY DESCENDANTS. Just like Aajonus' website: We Want To Live.

Am I finally coming in CLEAR?

Demographic Winter - Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F1EVVfuDpY#ws)

Maybe this short 3:50 min trailer will make it clear for you. The people being interviewed are DEMOGRAPHERS. They are the math guys who actually do the counting.  Please listen to them.  Listen that the depopulationists have succeeded and will continue to succeed.

"For those of us who were raised to believe in the teachings of Thomas Malthus or Charles Darwin (for example)... these TRENDS are VERY HARD TO ABSORB." - Philip Longman, Demographer
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 10, 2013, 09:00:03 pm
Edwin, I remember when there were less than 4 billion people on the planet.  Now there are over 7 billion. We've literally doubled the population within my lifetime.

I'm not saying "oh no, we're all going to die if we have more kids!".  My point is that things will be more difficult for no good reason if we don't continue to put the brakes on population growth.  Sure, population growth is slowing down.  That's a natural result of countries' becoming wealthier and better-educated.  That doesn't automatically mean your family is dying out. 

Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 10, 2013, 09:51:26 pm
Edwin, I remember when there were less than 4 billion people on the planet.  Now there are over 7 billion. We've literally doubled the population within my lifetime.

I'm not saying "oh no, we're all going to die if we have more kids!".  My point is that things will be more difficult for no good reason if we don't continue to put the brakes on population growth.  Sure, population growth is slowing down.  That's a natural result of countries' becoming wealthier and better-educated.  That doesn't automatically mean your family is dying out. 

Your notion is part of what this demographer was saying:

"For those of us who were raised to believe in the teachings of Thomas Malthus or Charles Darwin (for example)... these TRENDS are VERY HARD TO ABSORB." - Philip Longman, Demographer -- he who can count people better than you or I.  But you can do the math.  That is why I showed the fertility rates and population pyramids and the example of Japan which are being replicated worldwide.

I am saying that I have NO POWER to stop the depopulation imperialists.
The medical mafia, the pollution mafia, the gmo and SAD mafia, the depopulation mafia are all too powerful.
I am saying the depopulation imperialists WILL SUCCEED.

I am faced with my own blood line mortality as I experienced it myself and I am seeing it with my own brothers and sisters and my own cousins and I have seen the trend from our parents, aunts, uncles, then grand parents, then great grand parents.

It is a trend to NOTHINGNESS.

My youngest sister is 30 and married for 6 years and still no children... getting frustrated.

The sister next to me married at 23, did contraceptives for 5 years... became unhealthy the next years... I pointed out her drug dependence on laxatives and her complete teeth root canals... and did IVF at 39 resulting in twins where she gave birth to both prematurely and 1 died.  So she is left with just 1 surviving child.  She lives in the USA and says either they have money for just 1 or that she thinks she's already too old at 43.

My brother married an educated but came from the province woman where they give birth to more children but was victimized twice with c-sections... so his wife is now thinking seriously about stopping at 2.  Both children are allergic to any wheat.  Good thing my wife and I sat down with both of them and taught them our health experiences.

I first wanted to follow the good virgin boy concept with my wife the traditional way my parents did... but my wife had been infected with the career spirit of foregoing marriage... and only through immense human drama did we ever get married... but her career infection she even wanted to reneg on her getting pregnant with children.  She was so hot in her mid 20s she was swarmed by sexual maniacs, perverts and even her boss attempted to rape her and chased her all around a ship.  My uncles were beating down at me to get her pregnant. 

I told her I would have to give her back to her father for reneging on having children... only after her attempted rape did she get pregnant... and she didn't want it nor did she believe it at first eventually asking for 4 pregnancy test kits.  Wife had heart problems while pregnant and saw an idiot heart MD who prescribed her heart drugs while pregnant!  Idiot OB-GYN said she was fearful of turning around a sitting child in the womb so my wife was victimized by getting a c-section.  First child received all upteenth vaccinations in his first 2 years because we were still health ignorant.

After my wife gave birth to the first child... we had infertility problems... could not get pregnant... this was a health learning experience.  At the same time I developed Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and the idiot heart doctor concluded he should prescribe to me beta blockers to shape my heart but at the same time it would KILL MY ERECTIONS... so that meant I would be stuck with just 1 child? FUCK THAT beta blocker doc.  I learned to give up caffeine and in 3 weeks CF was gone.

We learned about chemicals in our diet... throwing out the microwave... not taking any drugs... eating oysters... timing of sex for maximum probabilities, positions, etc. and the special filipino midwives known as hilots to set the uterus right...

Infertility experience: Did you ever experience being SICK OF SEX?  Being sick of the sight of my own SEXY WIFE because I couldn't get her pregnant?  Having to have an alarm schedule for sex at midnight or 5am just to schedule sex.  Worst fucking job trying to get an erection... when only thinking of baby baby baby mantra would my erection get up.  For 6 fucking months I HATED SEX, but it was a bad dreary job both of us had to endure because by this time we enjoyed the 1st child so much we both wanted a 2nd child.

...she got pregnant for the 2nd time... but because of the first c-section... the placenta did not set right and this 2nd child was a placenta previa case... c-section.  Good thing she found out about chiropractors in this second pregnancy so she was drug free from that old idiot heart doc.  2nd c-section.... oh the PAIN.  And the expense again.  This 2nd child was vaccinated until 6 months. We then learned vaccines were harmful!

Our health efforts were rewarded by the surprise pregnancy of a 3rd child but maybe her nutrients were depleted she became an enraged lunatic during her 3rd pregnancy.  A 180 degree turn around from the 1st 2 pregnancies.  And the thought that this 3rd had to be another 3rd c-section because the OB GYN would not risk a vaginal birth after 2 c-sections. 

What was worse is on her 4th month of pregnancy this 3rd child she got appendicitis and since we were not that health aware yet, we agreed to an appendectomy... another surgery while she was pregnant!

After the 3rd birth, a c-section again... she was dead tired, got into some sort of depression that was addressed by eating a lot of green honey.  But still in the hospital... even being aware of those depopulation useful idiots and giving a birth contract to our OB-GYN... each and every round of doctors with nurses and students entering our room... they OVERSOLD all the time LIGATION.... No no no no no... and for the nth time NO.... I wrote a STINGING letter to the hospital administrator about the OVERSELLING OF LIGATION... cramming it down our throats!  We were health aware by this time and our 3rd child had zero vaccinations.

So being health aware by this time we understood only NFP would be the best contraceptive... but my wife does not want to take any chances with her 4 past surgeries... she opted for abstinence... which I completely understand.  No sex with her after her 3rd birth.

And all through the growing up years we had health issues with our first born... culminating in several almost DYING TIMES for our first born.  It is only through my luck that I stumbled onto healing and I heal for free for the experience only so when my boy was almost dying several times my skills were always just enough to save him from dying.  He is now 12.  Probably has 8 cumulative months of bloody raw paleo diet on him.

Oh yes... my own brother almost died of psoriases MD treatments in 2007 - wife less and child less then...  but it was only through my newly acquired healing skills did he survive... left alone to his Medical doctors he would have died child less.

I'm sorry if this has gone long enough with me not even discussing the many "other women" who miscarried, child died at birth, had abortions... all the heart ache... women needed my healing skills before they could get pregnant.... or to get them through pregnancy.  Now I've even teamed up with healer friends so I can deliver my own babies... better than those uber stupid hospitals.

So yes... I've experienced a very hard life of trying to reproduce fighting tooth and nail every step of the way so I know how hard life is.  If one did not have enough tenacity, money or smarts in my generation of siblings my parents wouldn't have grand children to speak of.

Women in my generation (today in their 40s, 30s, and 20s) are having a hard time in the reproducing department... there is no health... no wealth... no mindset to even make the first child.  And I haven't even written about my cousins... worst was my male cousin whose first child with a first wife died along with his first wife due to illness some asthma... and his new wife having an incompetent uterus with 3 children dying on their 7th month... only success with 1 child out of 4.

I'm sorry to have to pour out my own experiences to you... but it is what it is.  I have dreams of living.  I like being alive.  My blood line being alive.  Dreams of having my own big set of grand children and great grand children.  Why should my wife's grand mother be the only one to have that honor?  I want that too.  But my experiences in this trying to make life game have been very very very hard.  This is why I think this way.  My experiences have been too hard.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: Iguana on October 10, 2013, 10:22:34 pm
Even after you saw all the fertility rates going down down down to below replacement rate... you still assume a population explosion.
The curves and data you showed are for Japan, aren’t they? I posted the data for whole planet http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/hot-topics/ted-talk-on-population-growth/msg114300/#msg114300 (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/hot-topics/ted-talk-on-population-growth/msg114300/#msg114300) and it shows that the global fertility rate is still above replacement rate, so that current global population growth is about 1.09 % per year. Ok?
Quote
The UN projects a world population of 9.15 billion in 2050, which is a 32.69% increase from 2010 (6.89 billion)
Do we understand things the same way? For me it means that the global population is still increasing and is expected to increase at least until 2050 by the UN. That it may decrease afterwards, I willingly agree and I hope this decrease won’t be too sudden. I fear that it may even happen abruptly and catastrophically even before.  >:

Anyhow, this demographic explosion will end soon, it has to. No need for intervention, as Sabertooth pointed out: it will happen naturally even if we don’t completely control it. But, in principle, a gentle descent by the steps or with a lift ends less dramatically than a free fall from a 15th floor balcony.    :D

Quote
NO.  Slap your faces again to wake up from the population explosion mantra / DOGMA.
What dogma? It has exploded until now but this explosion is beginning to slow down and is expected to revert in a few decades. Aren’t this facts we all reckon?   

Quote
There will be no more population explosion.
Yes, we agree. 

Quote
Thanks to 50 years of population control efforts and present and future efforts, the population decline is ASSURED.
Yes, we agree too. But decline is predicted after 2050 and no one knows for sure what the future will be, furthermore in 40 years! A lot of events can happen in the meantime!

Quote
Just as the Roman Empire population declined due to contraceptive mindsets at 0-200 AD... it is happening AGAIN this 2000 to 2300 AD.
I won’t even dare the slightest guess of what the conditions on Earth will be in year 2300 AD! Not even in 2050!  -\

Quote
And THIS decline I see all around me is what I am preparing for personally.
Preparing myself, preparing my children... so that WE DO NOT GET WIPED OUT IN THE PROCESS.
A difficult task…

Quote
Other people's blood lines will be decimated, eliminated in the coming population decline.
I am just a parent realizing the threat and danger to my blood line so I go into SURVIVAL MODE.
Hmm… my blood line is that of the humanity as a whole. In Pelolithic condition, you wouldn’t even know which ones are “yours”. As an Amerindian explained to a French Jesuit missionary:
When seventeenth-century Jesuit missionary Paul Le Jeune lectured a Montagnais Indian man
about the dangers of the rampant infidelity he’d witnessed, Le Jeune received a lesson on proper parenthood in response. The missionary recalled, “I told him that it was not honorable for a woman to love any one else except her husband, and that this evil being among them, he himself was not sure that his son, who was there present, was his son. He replied, ‘Thou hast no sense. You French people love only your own children; but we all love all the children of our tribe.’”
(Sex at Dawn, Ch.Ryan – C. Jetha p.71-72 http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/6191785/ (http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/6191785/) - you said you downloaded it)

Quote
Absolute Population DECLINE will happen probably in the next centuries.
Yes, but I guess before the next centuries: during this one.

Quote
Some people will INHERIT this EARTH after the big population decline in the next centuries and I consciously WISH and am working on for some of those people to be MY DESCENDANTS. Just like Aajonus' website: We Want To Live.
Hopefully, some humans will survive. But why are you so concerned that the surviving ones in 2200 or 2300 (!) will be “your” descendants? That’s something totally beyond me...

Quote
Am I finally coming in CLEAR?
You’ve always been clear on this! It’s clear to me that you’re concerned with future events on which we have no control… and about which I couldn’t care less. Obviously, your ways of thinking and mine are completely opposed!

François
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 10, 2013, 10:41:32 pm
Quote
Hopefully, some humans will survive. But why are you so concerned that the surviving ones in 2200 or 2300 (!) will be “your” descendants? That’s something totally beyond me...

You’ve always been clear on this! It’s clear to me that you’re concerned with future events on which we have no control… and about which I couldn’t care less. Obviously, your ways of thinking and mine are completely opposed!

François

Here lies the difference in our belief systems where we agree to disagree as friends.

I have never had any "faith" in any "after life" or "immortal soul".
My mind and entire being cannot process god or religion... ever... not even in my childhood.

My belief is the only immortality I have is living through my children, my grandchildren, etc... by blood... by DNA, by whatever fragment of gene or cell.  Only when all my descendants die... only then am I truly dead.

Just as my ancestors are alive in me... I will remain alive through my descendants.

I can leave my descendants my "books" of knowledge and experiences down the line... teach my own grand children life skills and many many things.  Take care of my own grand children.  Did I mention how much I adore and take care of my own children?

Family trees can, are and will be drawn.  And I will be there somewhere.  My family tree will hopefully thrive.  And they will all read about how we tried and tried and tried so much to see that they were born, fed, educated and taught to continue the circle of life again and again and again.

I have longevity dreams too.  150 is the current target.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: svrn on October 11, 2013, 03:22:44 am
Great work GS. You are truly a protector of humanity.

God bless you.
Title: Re: TED talk on population growth
Post by: van on October 11, 2013, 04:25:54 am
Here lies the difference in our belief systems where we agree to disagree as friends.

I have never had any "faith" in any "after life" or "immortal soul".
My mind and entire being cannot process god or religion... ever... not even in my childhood.

My belief is the only immortality I have is living through my children, my grandchildren, etc... by blood... by DNA, by whatever fragment of gene or cell.  Only when all my descendants die... only then am I truly dead.

Just as my ancestors are alive in me... I will remain alive through my descendants.

I can leave my descendants my "books" of knowledge and experiences down the line... teach my own grand children life skills and many many things.  Take care of my own grand children.  Did I mention how much I adore and take care of my own children?

Family trees can, are and will be drawn.  And I will be there somewhere.  My family tree will hopefully thrive.  And they will all read about how we tried and tried and tried so much to see that they were born, fed, educated and taught to continue the circle of life again and again and again.

I have longevity dreams too.  150 is the current target.

thanks GS for including that info.  For now I see your position is coming from your beliefs.  Without knowing that,  I had not a clue as to what you were so excited over.  I am probably more in alignment with Iguana,, that this earth is one big family and we all need to look after each other (eventually).   I have this saying that every parent thinks that their children ( I have a 13 year old ) are the most amazing child(ten) in the world.  And they are.  And mine is no exception.