Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum

Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: straight8 on October 07, 2013, 10:00:36 am

Title: so few people.
Post by: straight8 on October 07, 2013, 10:00:36 am
Has anyone else noticed how this whole forum is comprised of so few people? It just seeems really weird to me. It seems like the same ten or so people posting all the time. How many lurkers are registered? Seems to me that there must be way more registered fellows on here.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 07, 2013, 10:28:16 am
A lot of people seem to be shy or just readers or too prominent a personality to admit they are eating raw meat.  Sort of like taboo in their culture.  Some are already diet celebrities in their respective diets and would rather not admit to our forum influencing their philosophies or their experiments.  Some here do not even want their true identities even if they are posting.  Must be some celebrity or work issue.

We have lots and lots of readers.  Just look at the stats.  This forum is way more read, way more popular, way more informative than cavemanforum.com which is the cooked counterpart.

I think many forums really have more lurkers than posters.  Not many have the time or patience to post stuff or feel they aren't ready to put in time to discuss.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: van on October 07, 2013, 11:21:06 am
And, part of the reason is that there is so much argumentative energy here, that many are fearful of saying something and being ridiculed for it.  That is why most forums eventually trail off into nothing,, that and the basis of what is extolled has no lasting benefit.  I encourage all of us to take a more inquisitive response to anything that is offered here.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 07, 2013, 11:31:05 am
Agree on the argumentative energy Van.

Seems to be translated from surviving our face to face family and friends when we shifted to RAW PALEO DIET as there is far more argument and conflict there.  I've seen Derek's wife post on facebook and it seems in her youth she could not process Derek's personal choice to survive and heal... maybe when she grows older and sees her own children try and thrive on raw paleo diets will she be convinced to accept Derek's choice.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 07, 2013, 12:45:21 pm
And, part of the reason is that there is so much argumentative energy here, that many are fearful of saying something and being ridiculed for it.  That is why most forums eventually trail off into nothing,, that and the basis of what is extolled has no lasting benefit.  I encourage all of us to take a more inquisitive response to anything that is offered here.

A big reason we even have the collected knowledge we do is because of argumentative know-it-alls like me and Geoff Purcell. 

You almost have to be hard-nosed to eat this way, in this culture, at this time in history.  So, this is what we end up with.   

You make good points, though. I'm just not sure how we stay factual while becoming more gentle. I'm sure there's a way, but I think many of the mods, especially Geoff and I, are so focused on finding and spreading no more or less than the exact the truth about health and nutrition that we haven't spared much thought for being people-friendly.  I'd say, roughly-speaking, that that is also what's going on with a lot of our more confrontational members, like svrn, etc.. But maybe I'm wrong.

If you can suggest some ways that will make the forum less confrontational while not wavering from the focus on fact, I'm open.  At any rate, I'm glad that you're a member here, and appreciate your posts.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: Iguana on October 07, 2013, 04:02:17 pm
…spreading no more or less than the exact truth about health and nutrition that we haven't spared much thought for being people-friendly.

Does any of us holds “the exact truth”? ???

GCB lauched the raw paleo movement 48 years ago by asking questions, not at all by pretending to hold the ultimate, exact truth. These questions are still open today:

- Did the human species have enough time to fully adapt to cooked, Neolithic and modern foods?
- Is such an adaptation possible?

Decades of experimentation tend to lead to a “no”, at least as an answer to the first question, but still it would be wise, more humble and thus more acceptable to most folks to recognize that we do not hold the ultimate truth but are still experimenting and only have provisional and incomplete answers.     
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: TylerDurden on October 07, 2013, 05:49:28 pm
Apparently, on any forum it is normal for c. 2-3% of  the members to post frequently, another c. 37% post only rarely, while the rest never post at all. We`re no different.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: Aura on October 07, 2013, 06:38:49 pm
Does any of us holds “the exact truth”? ???

GCB lauched the raw paleo movement 48 years ago by asking questions, not at all by pretending to hold the ultimate, exact truth. These questions are still open today:

- Did the human species have enough time to fully adapt to cooked, Neolithic and modern foods?
- Is such an adaptation possible?

Decades of experimentation tend to lead to a “no”, at least as an answer to the first question, but still it would be wise, more humble and thus more acceptable to most folks to recognize that we do not hold the ultimate truth but are still experimenting and only have provisional and incomplete answers.     

IMO, there cannot be an adaptation to cooked foods because molecules released by cooking varies everytime..
But this does not mean some cooked foods are deadly.
Like for example I think that starch (from tubers, roots) is not harmful when eaten in moderate amounts.

But proteins and fats, along with micronutrients HAVE to be raw or max. steamed.

There are some plants in the wild that need to be cooked otherwise are poisonous.

Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: zaidi on October 07, 2013, 07:15:14 pm
And, part of the reason is that there is so much argumentative energy here, that many are fearful of saying something and being ridiculed for it.  That is why most forums eventually trail off into nothing,, that and the basis of what is extolled has no lasting benefit.  I encourage all of us to take a more inquisitive response to anything that is offered here.

Good point.

My observation:

1) Newbies are although guided about raw Paleo, but one wants to know more before getting courage to follow this Paleo Diet.

Therefore, the Project of "Raw Paleo Book" should be completed. Many will get fully satisfied after ready full book where all important issues are presented in proper Sequence.

2) Perhaps the "Witness"  section, how members here got health (when possible, then witnesses should be in Video form where Members briefly telling their earlier diseases and how they were cured etc.).

3) Collecting Videos of Raw Meat/Fish Eating at one place. A newbie will get a lot of courage of trying it if he "watches" other eating it.

4) Once again coming back to Van's observation about "Argumentation" ... how to encourage the newbies to ask questions (even if they have idiotic questions in the mind) and contribute?

Perhaps a sub-section with title "Newbies Questions/Answers ".


All in all, an Entire Section of "Newbies" .... with Sun-Sections of:

1) Short Introduction to Raw Paleo
2) Detailed Book about Raw Paleo
3) Video & Other Witnesses
4) Newbies Questions/Answers


This seems to be the only way of encouraging the newbies to become active and take more part in the discussions.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 07, 2013, 08:45:39 pm
Does any of us holds “the exact truth”? ???

GCB lauched the raw paleo movement 48 years ago by asking questions, not at all by pretending to hold the ultimate, exact truth. These questions are still open today:

- Did the human species have enough time to fully adapt to cooked, Neolithic and modern foods?
- Is such an adaptation possible?

Decades of experimentation tend to lead to a “no”, at least as an answer to the first question, but still it would be wise, more humble and thus more acceptable to most folks to recognize that we do not hold the ultimate truth but are still experimenting and only have provisional and incomplete answers.     


Well, that's why I said "finding and spreading", not just "spreading".  :) The truth is out there, but no one knows all of it yet.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: Projectile Vomit on October 07, 2013, 10:34:27 pm
Has anyone else noticed how this whole forum is comprised of so few people? It just seeems really weird to me...

I've noticed and commented on this before. I think the argumentative discourse turns a lot of people off, and drives many people, particularly women, away. If the moderators wanted to overcome this, they could set posting guidelines based on communication systems like Non-Violent Communication (https://www.cnvc.org/speaking-peace-connecting-others-through-nvc) and Clean Talk (http://www.shadowwork.com/cleantalkcd.html), among others.

I've certainly noticed that by adopting the communication patterns in these systems I've found it far easier to gain other's acceptance of my unique dietary choices.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: ys on October 07, 2013, 11:58:18 pm
Raw meat eaters are a very tiny group compared to cooked paleo (Paleo hacks) or vegan (30ban).

I have never run into another raw meat eater in real life but run into vegans all the time.

There are dozens of smaller cooked paleo and vegan forums.
This is the only raw meat forum (in English) that I know about.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: TylerDurden on October 08, 2013, 05:49:54 am
There are many  raw meat eaters out there than people here imagine. I know that there is a contingent of palaeos who consider themselves to be "cooked-palaeos" but who eat almost all their animal foods and plant foods raw. Then there are all those tribes like the Nenets who eat mostly raw. Plus, some WAPFers eat mostly raw, too etc.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 08, 2013, 06:00:29 am
... and millions of Japanese who don't speak English.
... thousands of Ilocano Filipinos who eat raw beef, raw goat and raw shrimps who don't bother with forums
... thousands of arctic tribes people who have no internet access.
... millions of French who would rather speak French (they eat some raw meat)
... millions of Russians who would rather speak Russian (they eat some raw meat)
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: sabertooth on October 08, 2013, 06:53:07 am
 

"There are millions of people who eat this way all over the world"I said to the two dorks who interviewed me today.

Then they ask me" well how many in Kentucky?"

"Honestly I don't know."

We must seek out and find the others. There have been a lot of primal dieters who have sought me out after the vice article went viral, I will try and steer a few of my new friends this way.

A lot of people seem to be shy or just readers or too prominent a personality to admit they are eating raw meat.  Sort of like taboo in their culture.  Some are already diet celebrities in their respective diets and would rather not admit to our forum influencing their philosophies or their experiments.  Some here do not even want their true identities even if they are posting.  Must be some celebrity or work issue.

We have lots and lots of readers.  Just look at the stats.  This forum is way more read, way more popular, way more informative than cavemanforum.com which is the cooked counterpart.


I have often had the delusion that Daniel Vitalis has been trolling my post and using some of my ideas.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 08, 2013, 07:50:36 am
Those diet celebrities eventually have to come clean and give us some credit for influencing their ideas.

Yes you diet celebrity you reading this right now.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 08, 2013, 01:48:49 pm
Raw meat eaters are a very tiny group compared to cooked paleo (Paleo hacks) or vegan (30ban).

I have never run into another raw meat eater in real life but run into vegans all the time.

There are dozens of smaller cooked paleo and vegan forums.
This is the only raw meat forum (in English) that I know about.

iv run into 3 people in my life who regularly eat raw meat. Only one of them who i see quite regularly does it for health reasons. the other two just love raw meat :) Also there are many foreigners who ate raw meat in their homeland where it is totally normal who I did not count in those 3(the three being american).
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: Iguana on October 08, 2013, 08:27:15 pm
... and millions of Japanese who don't speak English.
... thousands of Ilocano Filipinos who eat raw beef, raw goat and raw shrimps who don't bother with forums
... thousands of arctic tribes people who have no internet access.
... millions of French who would rather speak French (they eat some raw meat)
... millions of Russians who would rather speak Russian (they eat some raw meat)

Yes, eating some raw meat or fish is extremely common in many countries. Nothing extraordinary to brag about. But eating all raw during several decades without any food neither heated over 40° C nor processed  is, in modern times, a completely ground-breaking (and very successful) experiment we're doing. There's no tribe eating 100 % raw anymore, they all cook some food.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: straight8 on October 09, 2013, 09:38:26 am
Always figured the raw meat thing was more popular. Remember reading some article in a 2001 edition of rolling stone. Most hunters I know sample raw deer meat discretely after the kill. Be cool if the lurkers would say abit more.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 10, 2013, 10:53:51 am
The raw paleo book has already been made, its called we want to live by aajonus vonderplanitz.

while I concede that juices arent paleo one can get around this by purchasing a green star juicer which extract the juice in the same way as our teeth would.

The juice you get is in effect that same as one would get from sucking the juice out of veggies and spitting out the fiber, something many monkeys do. It just saves you a whole of time. Make sure to swish the juice around in your mouth before swallowing though to mix with your saliva and mimic real chewing more.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 10, 2013, 11:49:41 am
Aajonus needs an addendum book that has caveats about stuff that don't work for some people.

Like DAIRY.

And TOMATOES.

He's big on those 2 foods.

Also people allergic to CHICKEN... lots more people than the blood type diet says... even if organic.

And the moderation of the extreme... do not drink water

And the moderation of the extreme... do not eat salt

And that thing about all parasites are good for you...
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: Inger on October 10, 2013, 12:17:55 pm
Aajonus needs an addendum book that has caveats about stuff that don't work for some people.

Like DAIRY.

And TOMATOES.

He's big on those 2 foods.

Also people allergic to CHICKEN... lots more people than the blood type diet says... even if organic.

And the moderation of the extreme... do not drink water

And the moderation of the extreme... do not eat salt

And that thing about all parasites are good for you...


Great points GS. Every single point I agree on. We always need the whole context! Parasites can well be dangerous in certain circumstances... depending on your health, environment...etc. We need to be free of dogmas and believes that are not reality. There are also dogmas about cooked foods that are not real, IMHO. Making them more dangerous than they are, and putting all in the same box. Making the raw food diet look like a cult..lol there are smarter way to get the message out, I think. More relaxed, more scientific, and always open to improvements.

Even if I so much appreciate and love the message of AJ, he sure did not got it all right (who does, BTW  ;) ). We can only try to do it better, always developing.

I am thinking about writing a raw paleo recipe book, that is meant for beginners, just to make RAF a possibility, and to evolve into more instincto style (seasonal and local) WOE. I am thinking to write about it just like that, the recipes are for the beginning, or for special occasions, later you will not need these. And I would touch different issues too, like how to make high meat, importance of eating the whole animal... many things. I really have planned to use this winter for this project.

(maybe Tyler can help with the editing  ;))
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: TylerDurden on October 10, 2013, 04:14:17 pm
I would be happy to edit such a book.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 11, 2013, 01:09:44 pm
Aajonus needs an addendum book that has caveats about stuff that don't work for some people.

Like DAIRY.

And TOMATOES.

He's big on those 2 foods.

Also people allergic to CHICKEN... lots more people than the blood type diet says... even if organic.

And the moderation of the extreme... do not drink water

And the moderation of the extreme... do not eat salt

And that thing about all parasites are good for you...

I believe all those exceptions are just a tiny percentage of people and people who just make mistakes. FOr instance I was really sick on raw dairy for the first month or so and I wasnt able to drink cow milk at all for probably a year. This is all detox and people need to just push through it to see the benefits, detox is never fun but necessary. Now I consume as much as I want of all of this with no problems.

also some people will drink a quart or half gallon of raw milk in a day on their first day and then say milk is bad. The fact is if you never lifted weights in your life and you suddenly try to bench press 200 pounds its simply not gonna work and youll probably hurt yourself. Does this mean bench press is bad? No it means you cant jump right into doing something youve never done before, you need to slow build up the muscle and then bench pressing 200 pounds will be perfectly healthy.

this is the same for raw milk if you havent ever drank it in your life, the digestive enzymes needed will simply not be present. Dont blame the milk blame the approach and not sticking through past the detox. Imagine if you all gave up raw meat and fat on your first detox, where would you be now?

to stop drinking water greatly improved my digestion and quitting salt greatly reduced my joint pains and completely eliminated my headaches.

People can see when I just started posting here I was quite skeptical of aajonus. Yet as time went by I learned to admit to myself that he was right about almost everything.

theres some genetic freaks out there though such as myself. I cant eat avocado at all. Does that mean avocado is bad? No it means that I have a rare mutation.

well be seeing a lot more strange mutations especially as the damage from fukushima really begins to show.


Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: TylerDurden on October 11, 2013, 03:36:53 pm
The above claims re detox are nonsense. A genuine detox is of a short, temporary nature, usually lasting days, never more than a few weeks. Granted, one can develop more immunity over a long period of time as one`s body grows stronger due to rising health(I think allergies increase in severity  if one is ill), but that has nothing to do with detox.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: Carne Cruda on October 11, 2013, 04:40:10 pm
Guilty as charged.

Honestly, though:
1) it's not like I have significative health problems.
2) plus, I made the transition to RAF in slightly over 3 years (LC, Paleo-LC, ZC with steak tartare and rare cooked meats, RAF).
So I don't  really have many questions left.

Both the arguments (protein denaturation, lipid oxidation, AGEs, HACs, ROSs, HAMs, enzymes destruction, vitamins reduction, and so on)  and my personal body reactions, convinced to switch from cooked VLC-ZC (again, with a lot of rare cooked stuff and some raw) to RAF.

I only started at the end of August - beginning of September, so it's probably savvy if I use these four months (till 1 January 2014) as a test period. And who would take advice from someone who has been on a diet for, like, only 3 weeks, anyway?
But even after that, I can't promise I'll post as much as I once thought I would:
apart from english not being my first language, the fact is that on RAF I find that there isn't really that much to debate, to tweak. Especially compared to other diets.

Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: Haai on October 11, 2013, 05:59:49 pm
I cant eat avocado at all. Does that mean avocado is bad? No it means that I have a rare mutation.

Humans have not been exposed to avocados for very long. They originate from Central America, and spread around the world only several hundred years ago. Perhaps this explains why some people have problems with them.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 11, 2013, 08:34:28 pm
I'm allergic to tomatoes.
Tried 2 tomatoes every morning with salt and pepper to kill tape worms for 2 weeks.
After 1 week I thought I was going to die ahead of the tape worms.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: van on October 11, 2013, 10:04:27 pm
The above claims re detox are nonsense. A genuine detox is of a short, temporary nature, usually lasting days, never more than a few weeks. Granted, one can develop more immunity over a long period of time as one`s body grows stronger due to rising health(I think allergies increase in severity  if one is ill), but that has nothing to do with detox.
   Tyler I disagree.  In my experience there are several factors that allow someone to do well ( at least for some time ) with milk.   First is that most of us have grown up drinking pasteurized milk.  That's a lot of stored damaged proteins (not to mention a host of other rubbish) in the body.   Switching over to raw gives the body a chance to exchange for the damaged molecules.   That exchange can last months (in my experience) as the body cleans out. 
   The second factor is that when we're off milk for some years (assuming we drank it when young) we loose the intestinal bacteria that can digest lactose, and other compounds in milk.  We still have some, but the population numbers are low.  Thus when beginning dairy, it is extremely helpful to start with very very small amounts, increasing slowly as the numbers of lactose feeding bacteria grow in numbers.  Or one can do an implant with the same bacteria.  It is my understanding that they are produced in the large intestine and then transported to the liver  where they are dispersed.  I have only read this,  and so it is just passed information.   That is why milk can seem like poison to some, and not to others. 
   To me, the question really is how does the body adapt long term.  For most who can digest milk immediately feel like they have discovered the fountain of youth, with all the immediate sugar (lactose) proteins and fats; a complete food.  They put on weight,  start cleansing years of stored wastes... it feels again, like a real boon, and they want to tell everyone.  I know,  I preached the same sermon for years.  I have no idea as to how Aajonus faired on it in his later years, but what can happen so often with diet gurus is that they proclaim something to be true for so long, and then should they find (if they are willing to admit) that they were mistaken, it can be most difficult to reverse their opinions.  Just look at the leading proponent of the 80/20 diet; he's dug in.   Very few want to die, and hence when we think we have found that fountain,,  we don't like to give it up.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: Haai on October 13, 2013, 06:20:31 pm
I'm allergic to tomatoes.
Tried 2 tomatoes every morning with salt and pepper to kill tape worms for 2 weeks.
After 1 week I thought I was going to die ahead of the tape worms.

Tomatoes, besides being a nightshade, are also from the New World.
Title: Re: milk over and over again
Post by: Iguana on October 13, 2013, 10:38:47 pm
   Tyler I disagree.  In my experience there are several factors that allow someone to do well ( at least for some time ) with milk.   First is that most of us have grown up drinking pasteurized milk.  That's a lot of stored damaged proteins (not to mention a host of other rubbish) in the body.   Switching over to raw gives the body a chance to exchange for the damaged molecules.   That exchange can last months (in my experience) as the body cleans out.
Your hypothesis is like “eating raw, soaked wheat will “detox” gluten and other harmful molecules from the bread and pasta previously eaten.” You already suggested it:
As explained by Nicole at Montrame to me was that raw proteins will be substituted for old damaged cooked proteins that have been used and built into one's body.  As I have written here before, I had experienced that directly years ago when going instincto eating lots of raw tuna, and the massive eliminations resulting from have grown up as a kid on canned tuna.  I believe the same can be said for raw dairy for those having grown up on pasturized dairy.  And I wonder if that might have been what Guy Claude was experiencing when he experimented with dairy,, first cow, then goat?    Dairy is such a variable food item.  Does one have the necessary Amounts of Lactose digesting bacteria in the intestines to handle the lactose, or has one taken the efforts to build the bacteria numbers up.  Is one combining dairy with other foods?  Is the dairy fermented or straight from the animal.  Is the animal not only grass fed, but GREEN grass fed,, pretty hard to do year around in France, unless you're in the South of France (I would get mucous from my goats milk in the late fall (every year ) when the green grass would turn brown for the few months before the rains came again). 
and I answered you this:
That could be a possible explanation, Van. But I doubt GCB, as the meticulous observer he is, would have confused spontaneous infections with detoxination symptoms. Several years after he logically questioned the consumption of dairy products, a lot of scientific papers were published questioning also the suitability of animal milk for human consumption. At least in Europe, many dietitians are now also condemning the consumption of animal milk, moreover in adulthood, something no wild animal does on this planet. There’s no cross consumption of milk between different species, except some very rare and exceptional cases, each mammal species having it specific milk whit the exact composition adapted to the species’ offspring.

Here (edit: in Europe) there’s still only the dairy industry to promote milk consumption.  >D
to which you responded again:
Iguana, I don't understand this 'spontaneous infections' you mention...  I never had any, nor do I hear about them in other raw milk consuming circles.   But then when one wants to believe in a new and wonderful food, 'we' can forget or overlook minor difficulties.   But more on the spontaneous infections,,  if one is cleansing or eliminating by eating raw proteins, those old damaged molecules will be in the blood, lymph and stools etc, and my guess is there would be a hightened or taxed  or overwhelmed immune system, thus a potential for bacteria and virus's to feed on those molecules before being eliminated from the body.   This seems obvious to me,,,  and not to you?
These infections happen only once the immune system is out of “tolerance”, meaning the body must be out of habituation. If you never completely stop long enough to feed on some dairy, the immune systems remains in a state of “strike” against the constant influx of some foreign proteins and abnormal molecules which somehow pass through the intestinal barrier.

Spontaneous infections never happened to anyone when eating other raw animal foods. It happened only with milk, even with perfect raw milk from their own goat.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 14, 2013, 01:54:38 am
The above claims re detox are nonsense. A genuine detox is of a short, temporary nature, usually lasting days, never more than a few weeks. Granted, one can develop more immunity over a long period of time as one`s body grows stronger due to rising health(I think allergies increase in severity  if one is ill), but that has nothing to do with detox.

aajonus has done many tests on the excretions which you claim are not detox. He has found in all of the people he studied that these excretions often contain industrial chemicals that the patient has ingested many years ago.

this proves that it is detox.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 14, 2013, 02:00:12 am
I'm allergic to tomatoes.
Tried 2 tomatoes every morning with salt and pepper to kill tape worms for 2 weeks.
After 1 week I thought I was going to die ahead of the tape worms.

many people are allergic to oysters. does this mean that oyster is bad?

http://www.livestrong.com/article/72305-oyster-allergy-symptoms/ (http://www.livestrong.com/article/72305-oyster-allergy-symptoms/)

a genetic freak does not mean a certain food is bad.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: TylerDurden on October 14, 2013, 02:01:07 am
aajonus has done many tests on the excretions which you claim are not detox. He has found in all of the people he studied that these excretions often contain industrial chemicals that the patient has ingested many years ago.

this proves that it is detox.
While Aajonus did have some interesting data in other aspects,  his claims re detox are clearly fraudulent and it is no surprise why so many people view him as a charlatan because of this. I have listened to endless cassette tapes in which Aajonus claimed that virtually all his clients were infested with so-called toxic chemicals and that that was the real reason for their health-problems. This is simply not likely. AV`s claims in this regard have already been debunked in light of DR Wakefield`s evidence being disproven. Oh yes, AV also claimed my problems with raw dairy were due to detox; this bullshit  rather pissed me off, unsurprisingly.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: TylerDurden on October 14, 2013, 02:01:58 am
many people are allergic to oysters. does this mean that oyster is bad?

http://www.livestrong.com/article/72305-oyster-allergy-symptoms/ (http://www.livestrong.com/article/72305-oyster-allergy-symptoms/)

a genetic freak does not mean a certain food is bad.
Bullshit again. Allergies to raw oysters are a tiny minority. Allergies to grains and dairy are very high indeed.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 14, 2013, 02:03:00 am
aajonus has changed his mind on many occasions.

when listening to his interviews or speeches he brings up slight tweaks to his book every now and then.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 14, 2013, 02:03:49 am
Bullshit again. Allergies to raw oysters are a tiny minority. Allergies to grains and dairy are very high indeed.

prove to me that raw dairy allergies are greater than raw oyster allergies. I suspect you have no proof.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: van on October 14, 2013, 03:40:25 am
Your hypothesis is like “eating raw, soaked wheat will “detox” gluten and other harmful molecules from the bread and pasta previously eaten.” You already suggested it:and I answered you this:to which you responded again:These infections happen only once the immune system is out of “tolerance”, meaning the body must be out of habituation. If you never completely stop long enough to feed on some dairy, the immune systems remains in a state of “strike” against the constant influx of some foreign proteins and abnormal molecules which somehow pass through the intestinal barrier.

Spontaneous infections never happened to anyone when eating other raw animal foods. It happened only with milk, even with perfect raw milk from their own goat.

   Iguana I can't tell if you also share experiences of raw proteinous foods causing a cleanse, exchange of old cooked proteins?    But in regards to your question about sprouted wheat....  My answer would be yes, it Probably does.  And wheat grass even to a larger degree.    But let's get back to whether or not you'd agree with something like raw tuna causing an exchange for cooked tuna stored molecules in the body ( a theory heavily promoted by Instinctos)
when you get right down to it, what really is the process?  Could it be facilitated by enzymes?  They are catalysts for most of the functions in the body.  There certainly are a whole party of enzymes in wheat grass or heavily sprouted grain.    Doesn't make sense to me why you Might apply the exchange principle to one type of food and not to another.  But then maybe I don't understand you here?
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: TylerDurden on October 14, 2013, 04:01:41 am
prove to me that raw dairy allergies are greater than raw oyster allergies. I suspect you have no proof.
This is childish. One only has to look at the data to see that allergies to pasteurised dairy are reported to be the most common:-

http://www.milk.co.uk/page.aspx?intPageID=141 (http://www.milk.co.uk/page.aspx?intPageID=141)


Allergies to cooked molluscan shellfish appear to be less frequent than allergies to other types of cooked seafood:-

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18291306 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18291306)

Therefore, since incidence of allergies to pasteurised dairy is  far higher than
the incidence of allergies to cooked oysters, it follows logically that allergies to raw dairy are far more frequent than allergies to raw oysters.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 14, 2013, 04:26:01 am
first of all my uestion was about raw foods and also I believe that your logic regarding if it applies to cooked then must also apply to raw is also not proper logic.

anyway, let us put that aside as I entertain your response anyway.

from the milk data you posted

Quote
Milk allergy is estimated to affect 2% of infants and young children in the UK population.
The prevalence of CMA varies with age, with highest prevalence in early childhood (2-6%) and decreasing prevalence with increasing age.

The incidence in adulthood is just 0.1-0.5%.

from the shellfish data you posted

Quote
...

there is no data about percentage of shellfish allergies in the webpage you sent me. You have proven nothing. If I am wrong please quote the applicable data.

it seems to me as though you just post studies assuming that they back you up without reading them.

perhaps I will tackle the issue of the flawed logic which I previously mentioned after we get past this but I do not want to do this not as it is better to handle thigns one issue at a time.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 14, 2013, 04:37:08 am
http://www.acaai.org/allergist/allergies/Types/food-allergies/types/Pages/shellfish-allergy.aspx (http://www.acaai.org/allergist/allergies/Types/food-allergies/types/Pages/shellfish-allergy.aspx)

Quote
Overall, shellfish allergy affects nearly 7 million people, or about 2.3 percent of the U.S. population.

according to the study about milk which you posted the only group which has higher allergy to milk than shellfish in the general population is early childhood. It would be interesting to seethe early childhood rate of shellfish allergy to compare as well for a more scientific approach.

--------

here is data on milk allergy in the us from the same website it does not give an exact percentage but states that it is 300k in young children for the us and that the rate decreases with age. do the math yourself and compare two us numbers

Quote
Milk allergy in children

Milk allergy is estimated to affect about 300,000 children under the age of 3 in the United States. Although it was formerly believed that the vast majority of children would outgrow this allergy by age 3, recent studies contradict this theory. Less than 20 percent of children enrolled in one study had outgrown their allergy by the age of 4. Still, approximately 80 percent of children with milk allergy will outgrow it by the age of 16.

i thought is hould post the milk thing too so as to compare two us populations and not compare us with uk in order to be more scientific.

i know i posted a lot of stuff but I like to overkill such poorly crafted arguments since its so easy
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: TylerDurden on October 14, 2013, 05:42:07 am
Svrn, as usual, you are talking nonsense and are being quite wilfully stupid at the same time.

The point I made re allergies to pasteurised dairy being more prevalent than allergies to cooked oysters and that therefore the same applied to raw dairy and raw oysters  stands. We all know from general scientific data that cooking increases the allergenicity of foods so that allergenicity of foods correspondingly decreases a bit  in raw form - I would imagine that there are tiny exceptions such as grains, but that`s all.  The point is that if a particular food in cooked form is way more allergenic than another particular food in cooked form, it is logical to assume that the same relationship applies between raw versions of those two foods. That is, unless you can provide solid scientific data that "proves" that dairy is affected by heat to a far more harmful  extent than oysters ever could be.

As usual, you have deliberately twisted the data. The info you selected applied to shellfish in general, not just oysters. I had already provided a scientific link which conclusively showed that allergies to molluscan shellfish like oysters were  far less prevalent than allergies to other types of shellfish. You had after all asked about the difference between allergies to raw dairy and raw oysters, so you are deliberately using false data.

Shellfish allergy data is often misleading. I have seen figures ranging from 0.5 to 2.5% of the population

http://www.ctajournal.com/content/1/1/3 (http://www.ctajournal.com/content/1/1/3)

suffering from a wide variety of different shellfish allergies. The proportion of those who suffer specifically from an allergy to raw oysters is a small  proportion of that figure since oysters are only one of a myriad other types of shellfish, plus  I have already shown via previous scientific data that  molluscan shellfish like oysters are far less allergenic than other types of shellfish  or seafood in general.

Now, figures for allergies to raw and pasteurised dairy are a problem. There is way more to this business anyway:- casein  allergy, lactose intolerance and susceptibility to the nasty hormones in  dairy, raw or otherwise, the excess calcium in dairy blocking the uptake of magnesium into the body if dairy is consumed in excess, plus the osteoporosis aspect that Waiu Genriuu focuses on:-
http://www.4.waisays.com/eng.htm (http://www.4.waisays.com/eng.htm)

http://www.pcrm.org/search/?cid=254 (http://www.pcrm.org/search/?cid=254)

The very fact figures are cited of the world`s population being c.75% lactose-intolerant should indicate the nasty  side-effects of dairy, although lactose-intolerance is not an immune-response so not an allergy per se.

The figures given for milk allergy are between 2 to 3% of the infant population:-

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12487202 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12487202)
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 14, 2013, 05:57:54 am
okay so lets pretend I said all shellfish to begin with instead of singling out oysters.

acording to your logic then shellfish are bad because mroe people have shellfish allergies than oyster allergies?

i dont think it makes a difference as im sure we can all agree that shellfish is superfood thus throwing that argument out the window.

your programming seems to have to have short circuited and simply started spewing off random bits of anti dairy propoganda based on studies done on heated dairy.

anyway, no need to keep going in circles. I argue for the readers sake and not to convince you so let the reader decide. I feel I have already given enough arguments for them to make their own decision.



Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: van on October 14, 2013, 06:42:09 am
svrn,  if you are interested, in your readers, you might take a poll here and see in fact who here is being persuaded, informed, impressed, supportive or appreciative by your many posts.   From this vantage point, you seem quite insensitive to any feedback offered here.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 14, 2013, 07:04:40 am
a vote would be irrelevant seeing as non members cant vote and 98 percent of the readers are non members.

either way I know my post are appreciated as several people  have asked for my personal advice here through personal messages have had pages of conversations with me picking my brain. THis includes my political and religious views as well and people are quite thankful. I also have the occasional person chiming here or there with one post saying they agree with me.

The fact that im one of the only ones on here willing to debate the other most vocal forum members does not mean I am alone in my views.

The way that I am constantly attacked and berated on here simply has people scared to agree with me publicly out of fear of recieving the same treatment but rest assured there are many who are wholly with me on many different fronts.

in fact the only thing im really ever doing on here is simply reiterating the work of aajonus vonderplanitz 95 percent of the time. Since he is the most popular authority in the world on raw animal foods ever I am hardly being as outlandish as most people like to claim.

it only seems otherwise because I have the same 3 people constantly trying to refute everything I say. thats great though, people just shouldnt get upset when I offer counterpoints to every point they make.

so the poll is wholly unnecessary as I already know people appreciate what I do.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: TylerDurden on October 14, 2013, 08:01:03 am
okay so lets pretend I said all shellfish to begin with instead of singling out oysters.

acording to your logic then shellfish are bad because mroe people have shellfish allergies than oyster allergies?

i dont think it makes a difference as im sure we can all agree that shellfish is superfood thus throwing that argument out the window.

your programming seems to have to have short circuited and simply started spewing off random bits of anti dairy propoganda based on studies done on heated dairy.

anyway, no need to keep going in circles. I argue for the readers sake and not to convince you so let the reader decide. I feel I have already given enough arguments for them to make their own decision.

You have already provided a whole list of dodgy, faulty, bankrupt "arguments". I have already called you out on your using fake premises etc. in your arguments.

As usual, you have stated further nonsense, such as the notion that we all believe that all shellfish is a superfood.  I have never stated that cooked shellfish was healthy.

Plus, given the above nonsense you spouted, you are clearly way too overly emotional and have no remote clue what logic actually means. Your inference that because non-oyster shellfish are more allergenic than oysters  that I "must" somehow believe that all shellfish are bad is laughable. Quite obviously, allergenicity has to do with a number of factors, whether raw or cooked or whatever.

Whatever the case, I have easily proven that , in terms of allergies to a specific food, allergies to raw dairy are way higher in incidence than allergies to genuinely palaeo foods. You tried to wriggle out of that by citing an entire class of food-types(ie all shellfish) but that was wholly dishonest.

Plus, just like Aajonus the charlatan, you tried to pretend that all those studies which condemn dairy are only focusing on pasteurised dairy, so that raw dairy is supposedly seen as harmless. Not true, Many of the points I cited, backed by scientific references,  referred to substances which were present in both raw and pasteurised dairy. Come to think of it, hormones in raw dairy would likely be far more harmful than in pasteurised dairy as some of the hormones would have likely been wiped out by pasteurisation. Similiarly, excess calcium is a major problem, regardless of whether the dairy is raw or pasteurised, as the key point was that it is excess calcium in general which causes osteoporosis etc., not how the calcium is absorbed.

Then there is the rather big issue of casein- and lactose-intolerance. Many pro-raw-dairy-advocates like AV  have tried to pretend that all problems with raw dairy are solely due to detox, but there are just too many rawists who have had nasty very   long-term problems with raw dairy for that to be true.What I find interesting is that 75% of the world`s population is lactose-intolerant. No other food when cooked has that high a figure of food-intolerance associated with it, which makes it clear that even in raw form, dairy is very harmful to human health.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 14, 2013, 08:25:35 am
more words being put in my mouth...keep going please.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: van on October 14, 2013, 08:33:03 am
go ahead then, if you are so confident, ask away,,,  who here finds you so very helpful.  But that  suggestion would have to come from you.  Like I said before,  'if you're interested'.   
    And this whole Aajonus thing,  like he's some god.     And as I have said before we typically believe what supports our own opinion. 
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 14, 2013, 08:38:12 am
what do you want me to ask? i am really not so sure what a lot of your message means. Please be more clear as I cannot understand your syntax in this particular post.

I will not publicly out those who have sought my advice they can speak up themselves if they like.

the mods who can check my personal messages know i am not making it up.

i laugh at the popularity of aajonus bashing while the insanity of the gcb fruit gorging is left unquestioned and nobody dares insult it. and they say his wife got cancer because of beef? LOL! its the fruit guys...duh. God only knows if i instincto id be eating 70 percent fruit probably...and all my joints were hurting on just 30 percent fruit, luckily I put a stop to that madness.

Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: TylerDurden on October 14, 2013, 09:02:08 am
Considering that Iguana is our foremost instinctoist here and does not follow this fruit-heavy diet you mention, I suspect this is a nonsense claim. Instinctos are way more varied than you think.

AV is not perceived as infallible here as he recommended too many dodgy things like raw veggie juice, vast amounts of unhealthy raw dairy etc. etc. GCB is actually more in line with rawpalaeodiet ideas when one looks at the actual theory he provides, as opposed to his actual practices.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 14, 2013, 09:16:54 am
but gcb is considered infallible. I challenge iguana to show me one thing of gcb he disagrees with to prove to me that he doesnt think he is infallible and that theres no double standard in regards to my support of aajonus. too bad gcb couldnt save his wife from cancer, perhaps she needed an immense amount of fat to deal with the toxicity in her body, perhaps she should have given dairy a try. im able to consume thousands of calories of fat in milk alone quite easily every  day, not including all the butter cheese eggs and animal fat I eat every day. I dont know how id consume that much in just eggs and animal fat, sounds pretty unappetizing to me. especially after my gut was alkalinized with all that fruit making meat seem repulsive.

i have heard many stories of giant platters of fruit at the gcb castle year round (how paleo)  that people would gorge on all day while not touching any meat. I am not making this stuff up.

Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: van on October 14, 2013, 10:18:11 am
what do you want me to ask? i am really not so sure what a lot of your message means. Please be more clear as I cannot understand your syntax in this particular post.

I will not publicly out those who have sought my advice they can speak up themselves if they like.

the mods who can check my personal messages know i am not making it up.

i laugh at the popularity of aajonus bashing while the insanity of the gcb fruit gorging is left unquestioned and nobody dares insult it. and they say his wife got cancer because of beef? LOL! its the fruit guys...duh. God only knows if i instincto id be eating 70 percent fruit probably...and all my joints were hurting on just 30 percent fruit, luckily I put a stop to that madness.


   If you really would like help, I write up a sentence of two that will make it real clear.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 14, 2013, 10:37:19 am
please rewrite that post if youd care to i really dont understand it.

I know english isnt your main language but i really dont understand waht u want me to ask or anything.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 14, 2013, 10:56:11 am

i have heard many stories of giant platters of fruit at the gcb castle year round (how paleo)  that people would gorge on all day while not touching any meat. I am not making this stuff up.

This was true earlier on.  As time passed, the importance of fats, especially animal fats, became much more clear to GCB. 

And no guru has everything correct. Not GCB, not AV, not anyone. Placing Aajonus on a pedestal is no smarter than placing GCB on a pedestal. 
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 14, 2013, 10:57:19 am
please rewrite that post if youd care to i really dont understand it.

I know english isnt your main language but i really dont understand waht u want me to ask or anything.

English is most definitely Van's first language.  Van is also one of our most respectful and useful members. If you can't get along with him without making direct insults, who CAN you get along with, dude? :)
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 14, 2013, 11:37:01 am
i wasnt trying to be insulting I assumed he was from europe and thus not a native english speaker.

also did you understand what he was saying in the post im referring to? I swear I didnt.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 14, 2013, 12:07:47 pm
i wasnt trying to be insulting I assumed he was from europe and thus not a native english speaker.

also did you understand what he was saying in the post im referring to? I swear I didnt.

Van's as American as we are.  And I think he was probably posting from his phone.  and yes, I did understand him.  You shouldn't be so quick to judge people's grammar and punctuation, anyway. You are not exactly burning up the forum with perfect grammar and punctuation. :)
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: jessica on October 14, 2013, 12:59:19 pm
Srvn we all have people who ask for our help and advice.  On this message board, In real life.  It is true that we are more in tune with the natural diet and way of life that is inherently healthier for all humans and others recognize that.  I think it is also true that others are drawn to those who dispel fears, especially around diet and health, I think a great deal of relief comes from that.  However, that does not make any diet or situation correct for all humans right now, because we are in a very dramatically different climates, very basically, and have all lead extremely different lives up until the point of now.  So while some will grow healthy from certain changes, others will need different.  You cannot take a weak and withered person and give them the same physical regime as a sedentary overweight human, eventually maybe, but same goes for diet, it is a change by degree and a refinement to fit internal and external environment.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 14, 2013, 02:09:46 pm
I love your enthusiasm svrn.  Of course there are times you might want to slow down a bit. How old are you? 

It's durian season and I'm literally pigging out on durian.

But hey, my body can tell me when I want meat and fat.  Lunch 2 hours ago was 1.5 weeks old beef liver and beef fat and some beef muscle.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: TylerDurden on October 14, 2013, 06:56:59 pm
Van's as American as we are.  And I think he was probably posting from his phone.  and yes, I did understand him.  You shouldn't be so quick to judge people's grammar and punctuation, anyway. You are not exactly burning up the forum with perfect grammar and punctuation. :)
I second that. Svrn`s punctuation and grammar have been absolutely appalling, one of the worst examples on this forum. There are a few others here who are as bad. I am not as  bothered by poor punctuation/poor grammar from those who have English as only a second or third language. Come to think of it, the latter have steadily improved in recent times, anyway. I suppose a lot of native English speakers must be using their mobile phones to post.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 14, 2013, 09:00:12 pm
I suppose a lot of native English speakers must be using their mobile phones to post.

They could still make more of an effort. Even if I were posting from my phone, I'd still try to ensure good grammar, spelling, and punctuation. People ignore you if you come across as uneducated.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 15, 2013, 11:37:55 am
the last thing I ever want to do is be a grammar nazi. I dont think people should always have to use perfect writing but it sholdnt be taken as offensive when somebody needs something rewritten so they could understand.

I swear to god I had no idea what he was trying say.

all I wanted was for him to write it again so I could understand.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 15, 2013, 11:51:07 am
durian is actually one of the safest fruits due to its high fat content and low glycemic index. It is truly a standout among all other fruits! 
unripe fruit also do not alkalize your gut. THere are also many fruits that alkalize your blood while keeping your stomach acidic such lemon pineapple applecider vinegar many things.

anyway my experiments show me doing best on little fruit as possible and only with lots of fat when I do eat it with conseuences being mainly acne and joint pain as well as loss of  appetite for meat.

also gs how much meat do you eat per day? I find when im eating a lot of meat I sometimes sturggle to eat even half pound of meat per day. when I dont eat any fruit I easily eat 2 pounds per day.

I hear you dont gain weight so much? perhaps try cutting food down to maybe one per day and seeing if you get any bigger? I gained about 10 pounds without doing anything when I did that. Gained more later but that was after I started excercising so dont know if i can attribute that to the change in food so much but I think so

it would be an interesting to see the results of such an experiment. Im sure it wouldnt be as harmful as that cooked pork and rice experiment you did a while bac  :o
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 15, 2013, 03:18:12 pm
I gained good weight, up to 135+ lbs.

I did my long fast which got complicated by a dirty moldy home and a bad colon cleanser and went down to 122 lbs.

I'm now up to 128 lbs in just 2+ weeks.

Meat consumption went down year 4 and 5... maybe less than 200 grams a day.

Meat consumption was up year 2 and 3, some 500 to 600 grams a day.

I'm following the Aajonus way of pumping myself to gain weight then lose weight to detox.

Merrily trying to increase weight again to 135+ to then lose it all again.

I'm sooo happy now with durian season... got plenty plenty of varieties of durians... all different tastes.  You guys should dig into various durian varieties.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 15, 2013, 03:22:12 pm
They could still make more of an effort. Even if I were posting from my phone, I'd still try to ensure good grammar, spelling, and punctuation. People ignore you if you come across as uneducated.

There's a cultural gap between us older folks 40+ and the younger folks 20+ with all this text speak.  In my country it's horrible.  The young people are into text speak.  Text writing.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: Haai on October 15, 2013, 03:51:34 pm
When is durian season? Is it only once per year? I am going to Australia next month, but would like to head up into SE Asia at some point. I want to make sure that i am there for the durian season!
Title: Re: Durians
Post by: Iguana on October 15, 2013, 04:43:03 pm
I found the below chart here http://durianinfo.blogspot.pt/p/durian-seasons-in-durian-production.html (http://durianinfo.blogspot.pt/p/durian-seasons-in-durian-production.html)
If I remember correctly, durian is available in Thailand somewhat later than indicated, until November.

This article mention that some durians are now artificially matured in chemicals, so be careful.
http://digitaljournal.com/article/34358 (http://digitaljournal.com/article/34358)
There’s plenty durian in Sri Lanka too with very variable quality, from delightful to awful. The season there lasts about half of the year, during the summer months in Northern hemisphere, I think. On the contrary, the quality of Thai durians is (or was?) quite constant.

GS, I’ve eaten several durians’ varieties in Sri Lanka, Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia. Orkos imports and sale excellent ones in various varieties. At Ambon’s market (Maluku Islands), durians are sold in 6-packs, tied together with a rope extended into a handle! Very cheap. 
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: Haai on October 15, 2013, 09:28:37 pm
Thanks for the chart Iguana. The durian season seems to time well with my trip to Australia.
Title: Re: durian
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 15, 2013, 10:05:44 pm
Thanks for the durian chart Iguana!

I live in the northern island Luzon in the capital Metro Manila, Philippines and I can only taste the durian season September to October every year.  So the rest of the year durian is mostly out.  And durian is expensive in Manila, even at wholesale markets it is 2x the price in Davao City.

If you guys want to pig out on Philippine durian, go land in Davao City and taste every variety you can get your hands on.  Some people in Manila actually take Davao City vacations just to pig out on durian.

We are off topic.

Please go back to "few people".
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: Iguana on October 16, 2013, 12:45:20 am
... in regards to your question about sprouted wheat....  My answer would be yes, it Probably does.  And wheat grass even to a larger degree.    But let's get back to whether or not you'd agree with something like raw tuna causing an exchange for cooked tuna stored molecules in the body ( a theory heavily promoted by Instinctos)
“a theory heavily promoted” is pretty much an overstatement. I’d rather say it’s perhaps a GCB’s hypothesis he suggested for foods of the same group, but I never read or heard him pretend it’s also valid for harmful raw foods: that consumption of an harmful food raw would trigger a beneficial molecular exchange with the same (but cooked) noxious foodstuff previously consumed.

Quote
when you get right down to it, what really is the process?  Could it be facilitated by enzymes?  There are catalysts for most of the functions in the body.  There certainly are a whole party of enzymes in wheat grass or heavily sprouted grain.    Doesn't make sense to me why you might apply the exchange principle to one type of food and not to another.  But then maybe I don't understand you here?
If the stuff is noxious, be it raw or cooked, I don’t see how eating some more, but raw, would help.

Off topic again, sorry, but I had forgotten to answer on this point.  Yes, we are too few and dispersed all around the planet. What to do?
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 16, 2013, 03:39:10 am
i have zero experience with durian.

there is a fair amount of durians available in chinatown but that means no certified organic so I cant know which ones are sprayed with nasty chemicals or not or which are radiated.

and tips for picking out a durian which has not been poisoned?
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 16, 2013, 06:25:28 am
Great idea!

Probably an idea for organic durian is to go to a place where it is the natural durian season with an organic farmer you know or with non-farmed wild grown trees or farmers who only grow durian trees lazily and not commercially driven... farming by "default".

Maybe next year I should fly into Davao and do an organic durian hunt, drive around and find sources.

The websites that write about farming durian are not encouraging with all the chemicals they use for this and that.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 16, 2013, 10:44:15 am
perhaps you can get me and the people at my dairy club a large shipment of unfrozen organic durians?

im sure if I get 10 people to get 2 or 3 durains each the price per durian wouldnt be so bad to ship?

Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 16, 2013, 10:45:55 am
we are too few and dispersed around he planet, what to do?

what to do for what? what are we trying to accomplish exactly?
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 16, 2013, 10:46:36 am
perhaps you can get me and the people at my dairy club a large shipment of unfrozen organic durians?

im sure if I get 10 people to get 2 or 3 durains each the price per durian wouldnt be so bad to ship?



You would have to remind me that next year September 2014!

we are too few and dispersed around he planet, what to do?

what to do for what? what are we trying to accomplish exactly?

We learn from each other.
We are charitable enough with free info, we save a lot of people from suffering and death... good karma.
And at the same time those same people insert their knowledge here.
Haai just wrote a book!
We've got some videos.
We get to make new friends!

Waiting for the next generations of raw paleo children and grandchildren.  I wonder what they will be like if they ever arrive.  Raw paleo parents and raw paleo grand parents.... hope it happens.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: Dr. D on October 16, 2013, 01:09:54 pm
Christianity started with Jesus and 12 disciples. I don't know enough about Buddhism or Islam (other than Buddha and Muhammad) but Mormonism and Scientology had only one dude also. We have more than all of those combined.

I think we have good chances if we are diligent and believe in our cause, especially because our message has a more tangible and concrete effect than those religions.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: svrn on October 16, 2013, 02:36:37 pm
I really hate to say this because I really love christians and I love the christian lifestyle and even live by almost all of those principles but jesus never existed.

"if Jesus Christ was a person, who was Mithra? Who was Krishna?
Who was the first to be baptized, crucified, resurrected
Betrayed and made into a martyr for someone else's redemption?" -ill bill

and who was odin or horus or a million other sun gods?

they give us the same religion and sun gods over and over, repacked for different eras and different peoples, this is how thye control us.



as far as the point of you can start small and go big thats true to an extent, but not simply by proselytizing as you need a huge machine pushing behind you to get all that through an a mass scale. nothing ever happens on a mass scale like that unless its approved.

however...if all of us guys on here had a hundred kids each, perhaps that will bring some real change?

Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: ys on October 16, 2013, 09:58:52 pm
Quote
perhaps you can get me and the people at my dairy club a large shipment of unfrozen organic durians?

it can only be shipped to the US frozen.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 16, 2013, 10:32:05 pm
it can only be shipped to the US frozen.

that's not accurate.  I've gotten never-frozen durian in San Diego at the Star 99 Market.  Those markets are the only ones in the US that sell fresh durian, though, as far as I know.  Otherwise you can have fresh durian shipped directly to you, but it's expensive.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: ys on October 17, 2013, 01:36:11 am
I did not know.  Maybe some other West coast places have it fresh.  But all inlands have it frozen.  I would be surprised if anyone would attempt to ship inland fresh. 

In theory you can probably haul it from West coast yourself.   But in reality not going to happen considering bulk of the weight will get thrown away.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: straight8 on October 19, 2013, 07:48:36 am
Its the jesus and durian mental masturbation thread
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: jessica on October 19, 2013, 08:11:58 am
im pretty sure when you don't abide by religion and you actually abide by the
laws of nature" that you observe when you are in the wild, there are infinite checks and balances, no man made system of beliefs can trump that.
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: jessica on October 19, 2013, 08:12:42 am
Its the jesus and durian mental masturbation thread

do you think that has something to do with........so few?
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: raw-al on October 19, 2013, 02:41:54 pm
Wow, I tried to count how many off thread topics, but I ran out of fingers. Lemme see, I was at durians and then Jesus, not forgetting milk and crustaceans, some argumentative guy who can't spell and someone with grammar challenges then there was....

Face it we're all opinionated... even me.  ;D We're not going to stop arguing and indeed I find that the best stuff comes out when the testosterone comes up to the surface, the gloves come off and some incredible ideas result. Even the ideas that seem off topic are great because they make us all a bit wiser.

Some PPL post on forums and some don't. I know some very bright PPL who have this ridiculous notion of "lurking" before they post, so they don't upset the locals.

This is nonsense because really they just don't want their ego bruised. I say "Balls to the walls" http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=balls%20to%20the%20wall (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=balls%20to%20the%20wall)
"Kick the tires, light the fires and the first one airborne is the leader" LOL

So what if you make a fool of yourself, you'll never learn if you don't ask.

Anyways our purpose is served because there are so many threads to read here and endless posts, that if someone just pokes around they can save themselves the trouble and therefore the purpose of the forum is served.

BTW my spam filter was working overtime this month (I think Google did something) so I wasn't getting notices. You'd never know by the amount of posts I have done. Yes I do have a life BTW.  ;D
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: raw-al on October 19, 2013, 02:43:53 pm
Good grief I am # 4  Maybe I should go mow the lawn or something. LOL
Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: raw-al on October 19, 2013, 03:39:02 pm
Some discussions here remind me of this:

Title: Re: so few people.
Post by: jessica on October 19, 2013, 10:33:16 pm
I don't mind when conversations veer one way or the other, I think that's a pretty normal progression.  But they generally end up at the same or similar topics with one or two new links and "scientific" facts thrown in the mix,  I think that gets kind of boring, especially when its the same people ruminating over the same things.

I would love to read more about personal experience people have had, people from different parts of globe.  I think that is the best about having unique members and more participation in conversations on the message board.  Come out of hiding, even if you don't think  you have the "right" thing to add.