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Hell I wish I knew, I crave food 24/7 no matter how much I eat and even poop seem appetizing to me (sarcasm).
Apparently lack of appetite can be attributed to zinc or copper deficiency, which seems unlikely giving that it's concentrated in meat. Muscle meat barely has copper but has lots of zinc while organ has lots of copper and a good amount of zinc (depending on the organ) and oyster has lots of both.
If sugar isn't a problem to you, maybe spread honey on your meat? :)
What do you guys do when you lack appetite or cravings? I still feel somewhat hungry, but not ravenous.
If sugar isn't a problem to you, maybe spread honey on your meat? :)
I just hope I can start craving raw meats the way everyone else does soon.
If nothing is attracting, then what do you think we should do?
You say “fruit is the only thing that still sounds somewhat appealing, but I don't want to just eat that.” Why don’t you want to eat just fruit for a day or two? Perhaps even a single meal of fruits will restore your appetite for other foods. Do you have enough choice? Celeriac, sweet potatoes, fennel, broccoli, cauliflower, green peas, tomatoes, red pepper, various nuts, dates, honey, perhaps sugar cane, carob, etc?
Everyone? Not me, not always.
That’s the most crazy idea I’ve ever heard or read. :o Sorry, Sorentus.eveheart spread honey on her meat :P
eveheart spread honey on her meat :P
Huh? It's delectable. I find that the contrasting taste of the honey complements the meat beautifully. I've seen multiple raw Paleo dieters report eating this combo in the past. Unless one is adhering to severely strict no-combining rules that are of little interest to me, or to a bland low-brain-reward diet to lose weight, or some other such approach, I can't imagine why this would be "crazy." The OP was talking about loss of appetite, which honey seems ideally suited for, not weight loss. I tend toward inadequate appetite and underweight by any reasonable standard, so I sometimes add raw (fermented) honey or other flavor enhancement to meat to help keep my appetite up towards a natural level and it seems to help.QuoteQuote from: Sorentus on Today at 12:51:14 pm
If sugar isn't a problem to you, maybe spread honey on your meat? :)
That’s the most crazy idea I’ve ever heard or read. :o Sorry, Sorentus.
Never!!! And I'll thank you to let me speak for myself. At the very least, look up a possible reference and insert a link to where you find someone else's statements, but never pretend to know something that you haven't even bothered to verify.
What makes me go ballistic? Well, for one thing, I rarely eat two unrelated foods at the same time. Honey and meat don't go together at all. For another thing, meat is not a sweet food, so putting honey on it would be the same as seasoning it. All my posts on this forum pretty well support the fact that I don't season my food to alter its taste or appeal. Finally, I don't eat honey because I don't have an attraction to that intense sweetness.
I sometimes reach a point where I'm just not hungry, and a few times each year might to a spontaneous fast for as many as 3-5 days on account of never feeling hungry enough to eat. I never force myself to eat anything. I don't see a point to doing this. Sometimes our body just wants to clean itself out and rest its digestive processes.
Here's a Korean beef tartare recipe that includes honey: http://www.maangchi.com/recipe/yukhoe (http://www.maangchi.com/recipe/yukhoe)
Huh? It's delectable. I find that the contrasting taste of the honey complements the meat beautifully. I've seen multiple raw Paleo dieters report eating this combo in the past.In the recent past, I suppose, because I doubt our distant pre-fire ancestors would have thought something like “I’m fed of eating this raw meat alone without any mixing with a sweet food… let’s go and an get some honey on that tree top over there to poor it onto the meat, otherwise I’m gonna get underweight for eating less meat than my raw paleo tribe fellows.” Thinking further ahead, this genius anthropoid would have then realized that by grilling, salting and spicing the meat he would be able to eat even more and gain even more weight!
Unless one is adhering to severely strict no-combining rules that are of little interest to me, or to a bland low-brain-reward diet to lose weight, or some other such approach, I can't imagine why this would be "crazy." The OP was talking about loss of appetite, which honey seems ideally suited for, not weight loss. I tend toward inadequate appetite and underweight by any reasonable standard, so I sometimes add raw (fermented) honey or other flavor enhancement to meat to help keep my appetite up towards a natural level and it seems to help.CatTreats wrote she lost appetite for meat. Doesn’t it obviously mean that she should have eaten something else? As a matter of fact, a single banana was enough to reestablish a rough alimentary balance which allowed her to enjoy meat again.
Wild raw honey (with grubs, which is an animal flesh food that includes protein as well as fat) was also rated the top-preferred staple food by Hadza hunter-gatherer males in a study (http://www.epjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/EP07601616.pdf (http://www.epjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/EP07601616.pdf)), so it's perfectly natural to like honey, especially for males, apparently. Honey is an animal product and in the wild it comes naturally combined with animal food (grubs and sometimes dead adult bees). So it's actually more natural to mix it with an animal food than anything else.It’s natural mixed with bee brood or grubs, but you won’t find a mixture of beef and honey in nature! :)
CatTreats wrote she lost appetite for meat. Doesn’t it obviously mean that she should have eaten something else? As a matter of fact, a single banana was enough to reestablish a rough alimentary balance which allowed her to enjoy meat again.
1. Meat and honey in the same meal are really a bad association, impairing proper digestion.
2. Proteins and sugars tend to combine to form AGEs during digestion, even at body temperature.
3. By mixing food before ingestion, you can’t know how much of each is the proper amount. In this example, your body may currently either need honey but no meat or meat but no honey. It may need both, but you can’t know how much of each.
4. Mixing and spicing allow yourself to ingest more of a given food than what you actually need, thus you get into an overload of some of the specific compounds contained in that food. You've then entered into a vicious circle because as long as this overload is not spent, you won’t be able to eat the same food again without spicing it, mixing it... and eventually cooking it!
Aw! This is disappointing. As mentioned above, Yukhoe (uses both meat and honey) is definitely a treat. I've never noticed digestion issues, but I'll also say that I'm not experienced enough to tell when something is wrong unless it's directly discomforting
Experimentation probably trumps all dietary advice, science, and history.
In the recent past, I suppose, because I doubt our distant pre-fire ancestors would have thought something like “I’m fed of eating this raw meat alone without any mixing with a sweet food… let’s go and an get some honey on that tree top over there to poor it onto the meat...They didn't have to think about that, since honey often comes naturally with bee grub (larvae) meat, as you acknowledged, which contains animal protein and fat. The ancient ancestors of humans included insectivores and omnivores that ate insects, honey and tree saps, and sometimes at the same time. Bee grubs were a good choice by GCB to add to his diet. Bee grubs are also reportedly the favorite part of the hive for bears. It makes no sense to assume that we can't eat any raw animal protein or fat at all with honey in spite of that just because of some dietary theories of modern gurus, except maybe as a weight loss strategy (though one study found little benefit for this from food combining - "Similar weight loss with low-energy food combining or balanced diets," http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10805507 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10805507)) or for people with extremely poor carb tolerance (though mine is very poor and even I can handle some RF honey with meat).
I have been eating raw meat for two years now. After much experimentation I feel I digest meat better with raw honey than with out.It seems that way for me too and there is a plausible explanation. Raw honey contains enzymes and acids that help can improve general digestion and it seems to improve mine some.
"Unheated honey contains an insulin-like substance that is produced by bees when collecting nectar. That insulin-like substance converts 90% of the carbohydrate in nectar into enzymes that help digest, assimilate and utilize protein. Unheated honey is a wonderful sweet food that helps digest all types of meat."When I looked into that claim, I found that insulin-like substances were indeed found in honey, that are called insulin-like polypeptides. (For example, see Kramer K.J., Childs C.N., Spiers R.D., Jacobs R.M. (1982) Purification of insulinlike peptides from insects haemolymph and royal jelly. Insect Biochemistry 12(1):91-98.)
The Recipe for Living Without Disease, 2nd edition, p. 31
I have been eating raw meat for two years now. After much experimentation I feel I digest meat better with raw honey than with out. My mood is improved as well. Meat alone or meat with fat and I feel depressed. Either lots of fruit before meat or eating honey during meat meal and I feel good.
Experimentation probably trumps all dietary advice, science, and history.
In the recent past, I suppose, because I doubt our distant pre-fire ancestors would have thought something like “I’m fed of eating this raw meat alone without any mixing with a sweet food… let’s go and an get some honey on that tree top over there to poor it onto the meat, otherwise I’m gonna get underweight for eating less meat than my raw paleo tribe fellows.” Thinking further ahead, this genius anthropoid would have then realized that by grilling, salting and spicing the meat he would be able to eat even more and gain even more weight!
CatTreats wrote she lost appetite for meat. Doesn’t it obviously mean that she should have eaten something else? As a matter of fact, a single banana was enough to reestablish a rough alimentary balance which allowed her to enjoy meat again.
With all the discussions we’ve had since 2009, I would have thought you know my ideas about it. Well, let’s go for one more round…
1. Meat and honey in the same meal are really a bad association, impairing proper digestion.
2. Proteins and sugars tend to combine to form AGEs during digestion, even at body temperature.
3. By mixing food before ingestion, you can’t know how much of each is the proper amount. In this example, your body may currently either need honey but no meat or meat but no honey. It may need both, but you can’t know how much of each.
4. Mixing and spicing allow yourself to ingest more of a given food than what you actually need, thus you get into an overload of some of the specific compounds contained in that food. You've then entered into a vicious circle because as long as this overload is not spent, you won’t be able to eat the same food again without spicing it, mixing it... and eventually cooking it!
Points 3 and 4 explain why the entire human population on this planet fell into mixing, processing and cooking food, the trend being irreversible unless these points are understood. ;)
It’s natural mixed with bee brood or grubs, but you won’t find a mixture of beef and honey in nature! :)
Hey guys. As some of you know I've been back to 100% raw foods for about 3 weeks now.
Since two nights ago, I've really lacked any urge to eat any raw meats (seafood included). And it's not like I'm craving cooked food either. Literally, everything just sounds bland, and it even tastes bland when I eat it (which I know is a sign that you don't need it). I've done this with an assortment of meats and fish - even cuts with lots of fat and the fat is just meh. Egg yolks have lost their appeal, too, and they were tasting delicious for a while. Fruit is the only thing that still sounds somewhat appealing, but I don't want to just eat that.
What do you guys do when you lack appetite or cravings? I still feel somewhat hungry, but not ravenous.
They didn't have to think about that, since honey often comes naturally with bee grub (larvae) meat, as you acknowledged, which contains animal protein and fat. The ancient ancestors of humans included insectivores and omnivores that ate insects, honey and tree saps, and sometimes at the same time. Bee grubs were a good choice by GCB to add to his diet. Bee grubs are also reportedly the favorite part of the hive for bears. It makes no sense to assume that we can't eat any raw animal protein or fat at all with honey in spite of that just because of some dietary theories of modern gurus, …I didn’t assume that « we can't eat any raw animal protein or fat at all with honey » at the same meal, I only notice that’s pouring honey on beef or whatever meat / fish /eggs is a modern artifice which prevents us to properly dose the respective amounts of meat and honey and may present some digestive issues. It can’t be matched to the consumption of bee grubs along with the honey and wax they are embedded in, which is a perfectly natural occurrence.
The notion that one should artificially restrict one's diet so as to never eat sweet or carby at the same meal with protein is a modern reductionist one.I didn’t assume that either!
Even within freshly killed or fermented raw whole animal carcasses there are plenty of carbs (estimated at around 15-20% or more in the case of wild Arctic animal sources - http://freetheanimal.com/2014/03/disrupting-carbs-prebiotics.html (http://freetheanimal.com/2014/03/disrupting-carbs-prebiotics.html)). It's actually one of the benefits of eating meats raw (though the animal carbs and prebiotics unfortunately deplete over time if not frozen or traditionally fermented, so that supermarket meat contains much less than wild sources). Heck, you'd probably need a laboratory or to at least thoroughly cook the meat to eat a truly ZC purist meal, if it's even possible. Breastmilk, nuts, seeds and underground storage organs also contain both carbs and proteins and sometimes fats, in varying proportions. Our species wouldn't have survived long in the wild if we could only eat macronutrients separately.Yes, I agree. Seems you read much more than I tried to say in my post!
It seems that way for me too and there is a plausible explanation. Raw honey contains enzymes and acids that help can improve general digestion and it seems to improve mine some.Ok, I conceded that it may happen this way for some people, as long as the honey and the other foods are each properly dosed, which can only be assured by not mixed them before ingestion.
While I'm quite skeptical of some of Aajonus' claims, he seemed to have a lot of experience with honey and was quite a connoisseur, and he specifically claimed that raw honey helps digest meat, which fits with my and Paperclip's experience:When I looked into that claim, I found that insulin-like substances were indeed found in honey, that are called insulin-like polypeptides. (For example, see Kramer K.J., Childs C.N., Spiers R.D., Jacobs R.M. (1982) Purification of insulinlike peptides from insects haemolymph and royal jelly. Insect Biochemistry 12(1):91-98.)Everyone is different and has different needs. I currently can’t eat more than a microscopic amount of honey and although it would be fine with bee brood, I would not eat it just after meat / fish / eggs: I would wait at least a bit, perhaps half an hour or one hour to see if I’m still hungry.
I find that eating some other food with the honey also helps avoid a burning sensation in the stomach when I eat a bit too much of such a highly acidic food alone, without benefit of meat, such as would come from the grubs that often accompany it in nature, or other food. Plus, as honey improved my digestion some over time, I became less prone to stomach burning.Yes, when we eat a bit too much of something, enzymes contained in another food can help digestion. But the best would be to avoid eating too much of anything. ;)
Fermented honey also contains bacteria that can assist, though they likely prefer carby foods.Thanks for those interesting info.
Plus, meat is reportedly an especially good trigger for stomach acid, which aids in digesting most foods, including carby foods.
As has been discussed by you and me and others many times before, the dose makes the poison when it comes to various plant and animal toxins. It's not possible to avoid them 100%. Small amounts may even be hormetically beneficial, giving our maintenance, repair and defense systems a workout and thus robustifying us, instead of letting our systems atrophy.
Plus, the enzymes and other elements of raw honey actually help in breaking down and detoxifying AGEs: http://www.denvernaturopathic.com/HoneyandAGEs.htm (http://www.denvernaturopathic.com/HoneyandAGEs.htm) and honeys high in methylglyoxal are actually considered more medicinal (via knowledge learned largely from actual experience), rather than less, despite the theoretical concerns about AGEs.
I do agree with this. If it continues to taste good, we can't know if it's because our body needs something in the honey or the meat.
Agreed again. I do like to enjoy fun recipes with my food, though. You have to enjoy your food, or you're not living. That's not to say that unaltered, unmixed foods can't be enjoyable. I think my favorite thing so far has been ripping apart a freshly cut sockeye salmon head and eating everything, plain of course.
I find your imagination limited when it comes to what might have happened over the last many thousands of years.
I’m relieved and glad that you, at least, understand me! So I feel less lonely on this planet… :)
The main reason why I’ve been sticking to 100% raw paleo in instinctive way since January 1987 is because I enjoy my food much more this way. Each meal is now a real enjoyment.
I don't "pour" honey. Our ancestors didn't exactly match and measure things out in precise proportions or doses, which are modern practices.I understood you mix honey and meat before ingestion, am I wrong? All animals and our pre-fire ancestors precisely dosed everything they ate by using their olfactory and gustative senses.
As I pointed out, a fresh raw animal carcass and various plant foods contain both carbs and proteins within them, so that in nature it's impossible to avoid mixing carbs with proteinsYes. Probably, the formation af AGEs in the stomach occurs only in insignificant amounts in normal conditions.
and food combining theories are thus largely irrelevant to the natural world.In nature, there’s not so many possibilities to combine various foods because they are usually distant in space.
It's not a good sign if one's digestion is so poor that one can't even eat more than a microscopic amount of honey with meat.I don’t eat honey with meat. I eat it alone and I have no problem digesting it. I currently can’t eat more then half a teaspoon because it’s too sweet and it triggers a mouth burning feeling; not because I can’t digest it.
Bee brood IS meat.Sorry for my misunderstanding of English. I thought “meat” = “viande” in French and for me it meant flesh of mammals, reptiles, marsupials and birds. Fish, shellfish, eggs, worms and insects were not “meat” for me, but perhaps it’s only a matter of language?
To each their own, but the original poster's question was regarding how to increase appetite, not how to avoid eating too much.Ah… but if you eat too much, then won’t your appetite eventually decrease? On the contrary, if you eat little or no food for a while, wouldn’t your appetite subsequently increase?
I would think having any two types of food separately is the more natural way and probably easier on your system in general. With the exception of fermented plants and leafy greens, as this would have been available in the stomach contents of a fresh kill. I've never seen a bear catch a salmon, carry it over to a beehive, dip it in honey, and then eat it. They just eat it and worry about what else is available the next time they are hungry.
I suspect that you haven't allowed time for your body to use fat as fuel.. Fruit and meat and honey will give rise to blood sugar and hence insulin. This may 'feel' good, but I would look into long term possibilities if I were you maintaining this dietary habit.
Sorry, Iguana, I'm not persuaded by the food combining theory. My experience with honey has been closer to Paperclips' than yours. I haven't experienced the problems you reported, nor any other noticeable problems, when eating a tiny bit of honey or fruit at the same meal as meat.
Since all animals naturally come with some carbs within their tissues in the wild, not just live bee grubs in honey hives, it's natural to eat some carbs with animal foods, and since carbs in animal tissues decrease over time and thus are lower in the meats sold at markets, and since carbs are less concentrated in the muscle meats that modern diets emphasize than in other tissues, therefore including a reasonable amount of carby food with the carb-depleted meats of food markets actually makes some good sense for those who can tolerate it well. To each his own.
If the problem is increasing appetite, I have found salt and salty foods to increase appetite.
I would think having any two types of food separately is the more natural way and probably easier on your system in general. With the exception of fermented plants and leafy greens, as this would have been available in the stomach contents of a fresh kill.
I've never seen a bear catch a salmon, carry it over to a beehive, dip it in honey, and then eat it. They just eat it and worry about what else is available the next time they are hungry.
Phil, the point is that in nature we seldom find a lot of different foods at the same place and same time, unlike at home where we are in an artificial environment with plenty of different foodstuff easily available without any effort.Van already addressed that here:
just as likely, if you care to speculate,,, one hunting party goes out and comes back with a fresh kill. The tribe sits and eats, knawing away,,, the second hunting party comes back with a huge bee hive full of honey. Can't you imagine how they Just might get a little honey in their mouths at the same time that they have meat in there too? Seems likely to me that over the course of thousands of years that that very scene may have happened enough times for those peoples to make up their own mind as to whether they liked the taste combo or not.And an article supporting him on this was posted today here: http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/infonews-items/do-u-think-we-have-the-same-gut-bacteria-like-this-african-tribe-for-rpd/msg121204/#msg121204 (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/infonews-items/do-u-think-we-have-the-same-gut-bacteria-like-this-african-tribe-for-rpd/msg121204/#msg121204)
It’s not absolutely necessary to let a variable interlude between two foodsThanks for sharing an area of agreement.
but it’s wise to ask oneself after having eaten something up to a point we felt we had enough of it:I didn't take Sorrentus' suggestion to imply a contradiction of all that.
- Am I still hungry?
- If yes,what other food is tempting me at the moment?
- Which one is the most appealing?
- Do I feel this other foodstuff will be ok digestion-wise with what I ate?
It’s obvious to me that some foods interfere badly with the digestion of other foods. Once you got an indigestion because for example you ate bananas just after eating a good amount of meat, or durian after avocados, or avocados after almonds, or safus after meat, then you understand and you never do again such a mistake… >:That hasn't happened to me, so apparently it's OK for me to eat some honey or fruit with meat at the same meal. It certainly makes sense for you to do what works for you. That's presumably something else we can agree on.
The most different foods we mix in our stomach, the harder our digestion will be.I was only inquiring about why you called the idea of eating a little honey with meat crazy, not about eating anything together with anything.
if you care to speculate,,, one hunting party goes out and comes back with a fresh kill. The tribe sits and eats, knawing away,,, the second hunting party comes back with a huge bee hive full of honey. Can't you imagine how they Just might get a little honey in their mouths at the same time that they have meat in there too?
Van already addressed that here:Yes, and I answered that:
And an article supporting him on this was posted today here: http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/infonews-items/do-u-think-we-have-the-same-gut-bacteria-like-this-african-tribe-for-rpd/msg121204/#msg121204 (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/infonews-items/do-u-think-we-have-the-same-gut-bacteria-like-this-african-tribe-for-rpd/msg121204/#msg121204)
Van, I’m not considering the last thousands of years, but the millions years before.The Hazda bring back various foods to their camp and share it, therefore they can mix and cook these foods. I’m on raw paleo, thus I don’t take after-fire-control behaviors as a model.
I was only inquiring about why you called the idea of eating a little honey with meat crazy, not about eating anything together with anything.No, I don’t think it's crazier than the reports in this forum of urine drinking and feces eating. That is even more crazy, and thus I was wrong! ;D
Thanks for explaining why you thought Sorrentus' suggestion was the craziest idea you've ever heard or read. Do you really think it's crazier than the reports in this forum of urine drinking and feces eating?
I'm still not persuaded that Sorenutus, paper_clips43 and Aajonus' comments about eating some honey with meat were crazy, nor CatTreats when she ate yukhoe, sorry.I wouldn’t eat honey shortly before or shortly after meat, but of course it depends on the respective amounts and on individual specificities. And eating two foods separately, without going back and forth from one to the other is different then mixing it, which allows us to eat too much of both those foods.
I'm still slightly dealing with this problem. Fruit is very appealing for me everyday, but meat/organs are not except in small amounts.
I had beef liver two nights ago for the first time. It was VERY good, but I could only eat a small amount before feeling like I need to stop. Yesterday, I had a little bit of liver and some regular muscle meat. Barely anything, so I was nearly fasting. Today, I had some liver and heart. Both were good for about 7-8 small bites, then I needed to stop. Had some tuna belly, was only good for about 3 bites. Then an orange, and it tasted delicious.
I want to assume I should just eat fruit, but I was also wondering what everyone's opinion is on how much is too much for fruit?
I look for variety.
I sort of follow my instincts with a lot of logic mixed in.
It’s no problem to eat fruits as much as you like, at least during a few days and if their quality is not too bad.
What about tomatoes, green peas, avocados? Nuts? Aged meat is much tastier than fresh meat. Mackerel is cheap and usually tasty. Why can’t you buy shellfish, even if it’s for yourself only?
Do not force yourself to eat anything, for example organs. You’ll like it in larger amounts once your body really needs it and can handle it. Starting with small amounts like you do is fine to allow your system to gradually multiply the specific enzymes needed for their assimilation and to avoid a too intensive detox.
Try to get fresh meat — avoid frozen one.
Quote from: Iguana on April 15, 2014, 02:07:39 amIt's actually millions of years, rather than thousands. The hunter gatherer lifestyle, in which there is sharing of different foods and eating them at the same meal among foraging parties, at camp and during overnight trips, actually predates cooking, unless you think cooking goes back farther than "over 2 million years" (source: The Natural History of Human Food Sharing and Cooperation: A Review and a New Multi-Individual Approach to the Negotiation of Norms, Hillard Kaplan & Michael Gurven, 2001, http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/gurven/papers/kaplangurven.pdf (http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/gurven/papers/kaplangurven.pdf)) Even after the advent of cooking, many of both plant and animal foods were eaten raw, right up to the present.
Van, I’m not considering the last thousands of years, but the millions years before.
It's actually millions of years, rather than thousands. The hunter gatherer lifestyle, in which there is sharing of different foods and eating them at the same meal among foraging parties, at camp and during overnight trips, actually predates cooking, unless you think cooking goes back farther than "over 2 million years" (source: The Natural History of Human Food Sharing and Cooperation: A Review and a New Multi-Individual Approach to the Negotiation of Norms, Hillard Kaplan & Michael Gurven, 2001, http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/gurven/papers/kaplangurven.pdf (http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/gurven/papers/kaplangurven.pdf)) Even after the advent of cooking, many of both plant and animal foods were eaten raw, right up to the present.
to my point, all the more time for peoples to have had the opportunity to have tried honey with meat.Yup
Good to know. We only buy fresh, local, and organic (except for things that must be imported like mango and banana). I was worried that I would do harm by eating a lot of fruit for a day or so.Don’t worry! I’ve eaten a lot of fruit almost everyday during 27 years — and even before when I was still eating cooked foods as well. I’m far from being the only one doing so and being well.
I'm not a fan of plain avocados, but I do love guacamole sometimes. I LOVE tomatoes, but they are nightshade so I've always limited them, despite never having actual problems when I do eat them. I had two steaks aging in my fridge, but neither smell appealing ... in fact, they have an unpleasant smell. But, these were steaks from a source that I'm not a big fan of - it's all organic, grass-fed, but the taste has always been less appealing. I've never seen mackerel actually. I guess I could buy some scallops for myself. I just feel bad eating something he can't have lol.Why can’t he eat scallops? Because he doesn’t like them? And Iif he likes scallops, then there’s no reason for him to avoid them. But better avoid shelled ones, we don’t know what kind of processing they have been through.
« However, because ripe red tomatoes have such low concentrations of ?-tomatine, and because they are rich sources of vitamins, minerals and other healthful nutrients, only people with an autoimmune disease or allergies should consider limiting their fresh ripe tomato intake. »Phil, I started reading the paper you linked.
Don’t worry! I’ve eaten a lot of fruit almost everyday during 27 years — and even before when I was still eating cooked foods as well. I’m far from being the only one doing so and being well.
Why can’t he eat scallops? Because he doesn’t like them? And Iif he likes scallops, then there’s no reason for him to avoid them. But better avoid shelled ones, we don’t know what kind of processing they have been through.
So, what in itself is an "allergic" reaction? It is a reaction of the immune system that disturbs the host, because it is stronger than normally, resulting in unpleasant symptoms.
There is no clear boundary between so-called normal immune response against foreign molecules (called antigens to express the fact that they trigger antibody formation) and an allergic reaction, except that the latter seems to escape the normal regulatory mechanisms (which can be recognized in the silence of the organs).
Why can there be a relationship between NCS (New Chemical Species derived from processing that accumulate in the body) and common antigens (all molecules from the environment recognized as foreign by the organism: hair, dust mites etc.)?
For a very simple reason that we usually don’t think about enough: there are multitudes of "cross-reactions" between different antigens. "Cross reaction" means that two different antigens trigger the same reaction of the immune system because of similar molecular surfaces.
Principally, the immune system identifies each antigen and implements a specific reaction. Each antibody produced has molecular reliefs which correspond exactly to the reliefs of the antigenic molecule to which it is intended. There is little risk of confusion. But with the billions of possibilities, some reliefs still lead to confusion, calleds "cross reactions" by immunologist.
It is thus understandable that a reaction triggered by a new antigen may be of unexpected importance if a similar antigen has already been introduced into the body and has "sensitized" the immune system. Therefore, food antigens (incompletely degraded molecules crossing the intestinal barrier) can sensitize the immune system, so that other antigens (dust, pollen, etc.) will trigger apparently inexplicable cross-reactions. This will ultimately lead to an allergy to foreign antigens, without suspecting that the reaction itself is induced by food antigens.
The converse suggests that by stopping the penetration of these food antigens (switching to a natural diet which doesn't contain the same non-degradable molecules), the immune response to environmental antigens will decrease rapidly. This is what can commonly be observed after transition to instincto.
However, there are some cases where these reactions occur with delay. The organism can indeed learn to tolerate certain antigens, such as the effect of repetitive consumption of dairy products. Then it may happen years later that a new antigen, from an unusual food, from an insect bite, from a bacterium, will cause the awakening of the immune system (immunologists refer to it as "breakdown of tolerance"). This apparently inexplicable reaction thus may seem disproportionate.
Reactions of this type are called "detoxination reaction" in instincto slang. Note that antigens capable of "awakening" the immune system, can derive from microorganisms (bacteria, fungi, viruses, or from another organism), but foods are most often sources of antigens that provoke a breakdown of tolerance.
This concept is compatible with conventional notions of immunology, except that immunologists have not yet realized the importance of food antigens since they are unable to show their effect in the too repetitive context of a traditionally cooked diet.
Regards
GCB
That's strange. I managed to buy raw scallops in the shell for 70 pence a scallop 3 years ago in London at a farmer's market. They were definitely not prefrozen(for some reasin, freezing really destroys scallops more than any other raw shellfish).
Everyone is different and has different needs. In a family, one will enjoy something that another one loaths.
But, ok, if you don’t have access to scallops in-shell, better avoid shelled ones. Maybe you could find other shellfish?
Yeah… Such medical recommendations are for people on standard cooked diet. It’s not valid for us and even opposed to what we should do!
It doesn’t mean that as far back as 2 millions years ago our ancestors regularly mixed foods and often had simultaneously access to meat and honey. Even if they would by chance get both at the same time, they probably would not even eat both at the same meal, but rather gorge on what they preferred until their instinctive stop by total repletion, like animals do.By "probably" do you mean you're not sure of that?
Somehow, yes...! ;DOK, then at least we can agree on probably. You say probably not and I say probably so :D and I could be wrong. No way of definitively proving it, so we're left with our own experience, Stone Age evidence, and observations of recent HG's, to go by and draw our own conclusions/hypotheses.
By "probably", I meant "most of the times", but there would certainly have been exceptions, just like animals and pre-fire-control-hominids would once in a way have access to grilled meat or tubers after a wildfire ignited by a lightning or after a volcanic eruption.
Or perhaps someone would have eaten some honey as a dessert.
Even monkeys recently learned to wash their sweet potatoes in the sea, thus salting them, which is a recipe... ;)
Yes, humans have done those things ("cook, dry, powder or grind, mix, freeze, etc.") for a few millennia and since they do that they also have set up armies, police, judges, prisons, huge hospitals, barbed wire fences, frontiers, weapons of mass destruction, they rape, torture, kill each other, do genocides and horrifying wars, spoil the environment, pollute the air, rivers, lakes and seas, deplete the wildlife and fish stocks, destroy countless entire species, burn and destroy the primary forests, make deserts, consume in a century or two all the oil nature made in rare instances 100 or 150 millions years ago, etc. -d How boring life would be without that, isn’t it?
The point in relating our past habits to animals is that our far ancestors were animals and thus behaved like animals, and that we are still animals although we think we are so much superiors and so great creators. ;D
OK, then at least we can agree on probably. You say probably not and I say probably so :D and I could be wrong. No way of definitively proving it, so we're left with our own experience,...Yeah, that’s the point: it doesn’t really matters if consumption of meat and honey at the same meal occurred often or seldom and since how long ago.
you sure can meander. If you actually relate what I wrote to the mainstay of this discussion,, at least for the last two pages,, no animal mixes, freezes, powders, dries, ferments, cooks, etc.. But man does, and my guess is that early man,, thousands or millions of years ago did the same.
Why, because he's possibly more curious, or creative than an animal.I’m not sure about that.
And, hence, trying honey on meat is Not such an inProbable occurrence. Again, I'm not saying its 'healthy' or that it was their mainstay, or that we should do it or not do it. But to insist that early man acted just as animals or were completely in alignment with only animal practices/instincts is in my opinion Instincto Dogma.It’s unfortunate that you don’t understand French and hence could not follow GCB’s seminar in which he explained in great length that his theories are more questions than the ultimate truth, that the practice is an experiment to try to find provisional answers, like all scientific theories propose. Therefore it’s a stupid mistake and total lack of knowledge to call it “dogma”. Sorry, but I would rather not have to read such nonsense.
Christopher Ryan & Cacilda Jethá assert that we are apes (http://www.sexatdawn.com/page11/page10/page10.html)(thanks to GS for the info about these authors):QuoteForget what you’ve heard about human beings having descended from the apes. We didn’t descend from apes. We are apes. Metaphorically and factually, Homo sapiens is one of the five surviving species of great apes, along with chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas, and orangutans (gibbons are considered a “lesser ape”). We shared a common ancestor with two of these apes—bonobos and chimps—just five million years ago. That’s “the day before yesterday” in evolutionary terms. The fine print distinguishing humans from the other great apes is regarded as “wholly artificial” by most primatologists these days.Cheers
Francois
I'm not referring to any of GCB's investigations, but more to those who set them in stone, as in here, where you are saying that early man could not have put honey on their meat
- In nature, honey is in comb and thus we can’t pour it on meatYeah, a bit of honey could be put on meat in the way you say. Even if it had been sporadically been done since 2 million years, then what? As I said, grilled meat could always have been sporadically found too after a wildfire.
five million years ago. That’s “the day before yesterday” in evolutionary terms.
It’s unfortunate that you don’t understand French and hence could not follow GCB’s seminar in which he explained in great length that his theories are more questions than the ultimate truth, that the practice is an experiment to try to find provisional answers, like all scientific theories propose. Therefore it’s a stupid mistake and total lack of knowledge to call it “dogma”. Sorry, but I would rather not have to read such nonsense.
Did I write "GCB says"?? Did I quote his words as if they were the truth??
When you read "Aajonus says", doesn't it sound like dogma to you? Why nobody reacts when reading that?
Yes, you often do.
Yeah, that’s the point: it doesn’t really matters if consumption of meat and honey at the same meal occurred often or seldom and since how long ago.Yup, that's one of the points that Van and I have been trying to make, and thus absolute rules for everyone, based on unproven theory, prohibiting eating honey or spices at the same meal as meats seems more crazy than occasionally adding a tiny bit of flavour to or with meat by someone who says they have insufficient appetite.
In the recent past, I suppose, because I doubt our distant pre-fire ancestors would have...and your calling something "the most crazy idea I’ve ever heard or read" based on your speculations and theories.