Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Other Raw-Animal-Food Diets (eg:- Primal Diet/Raw Version of Weston-Price Diet etc.) => Primal Diet => Topic started by: JaX on February 18, 2009, 03:05:30 am
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A lot of people in here seem to have come to Raw Paleo through AV and the primal diet.
Just wondering, what exactly made you give up on it (what problems did you run in to)? Do you still follow a modified primal diet (w/ less dairy/veg juice)?
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Too many things in the Primal Diet that cause or exacerbate problems.
I did the green juice thing for many years (even before Primal Diet) and all I ever got was bloating, gas, and loose smelly stools.
Dairy has always been an issue for me. I'm not allergic per se, however, it seemed to be the primary cause of my cystic acne and at the very least made it much worse. When I cut out milk and milk products (including raw), my acne just went away.
As my blood sugar was rising as I got older, it just didn't make sense to include honey in my diet. Honey is just another concentrated sugar and I think there is sufficient evidence to support that this is not good food for humans - especially consumed in the large amounts that seem common in the Primal Diet.
Add AV's preferred food du jour mentality, and the Primal Diet seems more like a FAD rather than a solid, well grounded long term dietary protocol. AV's work does get people thinking seriously about what they put into their bodies, and that's a good thing. However, I think that most people find that the diet comes up short in delivering on its promises, and they begin to search out better alternatives.
Lex
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I quit the green juice and milk because of bloating and feelings like it wasn't really that good for me, in addition to it costing more and taking longer to prepare and consume than meat and other raw animal foods. Recently though I've been considering trying to add back in some butter and maybe even cream to see if it affects me the same way as milk. Milk seemed to slosh around in my stomach for a while and make me feel lethargic and slightly bloated, green juice not so much the sloshing but more bloated feeling. Butter didn't seem to do than, nor eggs, so I'll probably start trying to see how some of those lubrication formula drinks does me. Also maybe some milkshakes made with cream rather milk and cream.
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Hmm I've heard so many people talking about this bloating feeling with green juices. I've like NEVER gotten this green juices make me feel pretty damn good. Usually i'm sensitive to EVERY THING, lol.
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Raw milk didn't agree with me. I had painful gas pains... with embarrassing farts... every time. Tried carabao, cow and goat milk. Tried this for some 3 months every weekend.
I can't find a source of raw butter or raw cream.
Raw dairy is delicious so I may try again in the future.
I see primal diet as a healing / treatment regimen. Those eggs will do wonders for sick livers.
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I did come to RP through Aajonus, but to be honest I never really did 'follow' primal diet. When I first read about this interesting idea of eating like our ancestors (came across it on the internet while looking for dietary related gym tips in Nov 07); the idea of a specific MUST FOLLOW diet never really crossed my mind. It was more of a broad new understanding of health that opened up a new world of experimentation and possibility.
I started mostly on raw veggies/fruits - broccoli, asparagus, sprouts, legumes, carrots, avocado, lots of fruit, and just a few very undercooked eggs. I was still afraid of bacteria. Didn't last 2 weeks like that, I got so weak and drained of energy, and veggies made my stomach hurt such that I could never get enough calories. I lost nearly 10 pounds almost overnight.
I realized maybe I should read some more stuff from people who've been here before, and Aajonus is one of the most prominent dudes on the internet, so I bought his book. I definitely took a lot from him, and his research helped me immensely. When I finally did get ahold of raw cow's milk months later, it just didn't work for me. I chalked it up to my 1/2 Mexican genes and just assumed those lighter skinned types may have better genes for it. Honey works great for me though - and I've seen it cure other people's allergies, goes well with eggs, good for digestion, etc, etc - many uses for me. I was just too lazy to do the juices.
Truth be told, most of what he promotes IS RP. Milk is just one of those caveats of his diet that is most definitely not RP, but some people can get away with it (for eg, I drink goats milk and don't have any real probs). Also, we may not have had juicers in the paleolithic, but (and I know we're no longer monkeys) but, monkeys do use their teeth for juicing, tho prob not in the kind of quantity you can get from a juicer. If I was a thirsty human in the wilderness I might do the same... just a thought.
Anyways, I consider myself RP as a broad term, even though I eat honey and drink some goats milk.
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That's a very good question.
Here's my story:-
http://www.rawpaleodiet.com/geoff-purcell/
Basically, Aajonus' diet is, like Lex said, a fad diet which is mostly aimed at the kooky alternative-health-oriented people living in the richer areas in Los Angeles. That's why he has all that guff about needing 10 million dollars to get back those "results" from a laboratory, or that nonsense about the coyotes or the Native American Chieftain introducing him to raw meats. Since he's focused on such New Age folks his diet is never going to be truly scientific.
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What do you think of his idea that fats are necessary for storing toxins?
Maybe his diet is suitable for people recovering from illness or those working/living in very polluted environments... who knows..
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What do you think of his idea that fats are necessary for storing toxins?
Maybe his diet is suitable for people recovering from illness or those working/living in very polluted environments... who knows..
I think there' some truth to it. In my case, pre-rawpalaeo, I was c.110 kg in weight but when I switched to raw, it went down to 87-90 or thereabouts on a constant basis. I've done short-term experiments where I've eaten nothing but cooked food for a week and my weight would always go straight up. Raw dairy also causes me to gain weight almost instantly, so, yes, toxic foods in my case appear to stimulate my body into producing huge amounts of fat to store the toxins in. Not sure if fats in foods are connected - I was still pretty heavy(but slimmer than on SAD diet), when I did cooked vegetarian(low-fat) diet.
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The thing is that AV thinks therefore it is healthy to have a good amount of body fat, as the toxins will store in there and not harm your organs and glands. It makes sense, and in true AV fashion goes against the mainstream grain as most people these days think thin is healthy and fat is unhealthy.
As for what I think, very skinny to me seems unhealthy as does fat. Different people hold different body types, I tend to be thinner, some people thicker, so I think it's an individual thing. I think I can tell from looking at people whether they are too fat or too thin for their body type. Myself, I would not want to go and be fat like AV wants me to because I don't like how it looks. I also probably would not like how it feels, although I've never been fat so I don't know.
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I'm thankful for AV's book because I got it when I was really sick with Ulcerative Colitis. It really got me on the right track. Since then, I could tell that the honey was not good for me. It causes some kind of auto-immune response in my skin and my digestion. (perhaps candida?-I don't know) I also tried raw milk and cream but I could just tell my body didn't need that either. So, now I pretty much live off beef, fish, tomatoes, and avocados. I use citrus for flavoring and stuff like that too, but I keep it pretty simple for the most part.
If AV lifted weights he would be ripped. I think he's just too lazy to exercise. Plus, he's older and probably doesn't need to worry about that stuff. It's funny because I saw some pictures of him and his girl (I believe) out in Hawaii where they do that special bootcamp or whatever and she's all ripped and working out and he was always just chillin' in a chair or something. He's just laid back I guess. I don't buy into the whole fat storing toxins thing though. AV speculates A LOT, and then preaches it like it's gospel. I just think he makes some things too complex. But hey I'm thankful to him for pointing me in the right direction.
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The thing is that AV thinks therefore it is healthy to have a good amount of body fat, as the toxins will store in there and not harm your organs and glands. It makes sense, and in true AV fashion goes against the mainstream grain as most people these days think thin is healthy and fat is unhealthy.
As for what I think, very skinny to me seems unhealthy as does fat. Different people hold different body types, I tend to be thinner, some people thicker, so I think it's an individual thing. I think I can tell from looking at people whether they are too fat or too thin for their body type. Myself, I would not want to go and be fat like AV wants me to because I don't like how it looks. I also probably would not like how it feels, although I've never been fat so I don't know.
I've tried to figure out what's the best way to detox without hurting the body or gaining a bunch of weight. My body seems to like the raw paleo (without raw dairy), which is a great way to slowly detox the body. Something to add to quicken the process without colonics or enemas is using EM (effective microorganisms) products. The combination, raw paleo + EM, may quicken the process. I however find EM products very energizing, almost too energizing.
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I'm not sure I'd say I ever QUIT the primal diet, neither that I ever truly FOLLOWED it (to the letter). Like others have noted, I found the honey and dairy (even raw fermented goat products) just didn't work for me. I convinced myself for years (literally!) that the problems I'd experience were 'detox' but I eventually found my own path out of the haze - reducing them slowly to the point now where I no longer consume even butter. Many of the symptoms, I've later realised, were probably a result of aggravating a candida condition but others - such as severe leg cramps to the point that I'd sometimes get stuck outdoors unable to get home - were clearly not!
Vegetable juice? I never had a problem with those. I've got out of using them largely from laziness but I always found them hugely stimulating, energising and hydrating! I would happily sometimes spend 2-3 days on nothing but celery/courgette/parsley juice combined with raw jersey cream & honey. Wonderful nectar which I would drink by the litre after a day walking or cycling and it would really hit the spot. Actually, I really fancy some now having rekindled that thought!
I owe alot to AV and the primal diet as, without it, I wouldn't be on the journey I now find myself on. It helped me get over years of chronic fatigue and to return to a life of normality - of being able to enjoy a work and social life again. I certainly loved the primal diet as it consisted of many of my favourite foods - I would happily exist on a diet of milk, cream, yoghurt and butter if I could! It's always been a dream of mine to raise my own goats, chickens, bees and grow my own fruit/veg etc. The primal diet fitted neatly in with that dream and it's difficult to admit that's not a viable option for me. Perhaps, if I resolve the candida issues I'll be able to return to that one day - we can but live in hope!
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I'm a little uncomfortable about this topic being listed in the Primal Diet forum. The way I see it, any posts critical of a specific raw diet should really be placed elsewhere - after all, those forums specific to those diets were meant originally as a refuge for the people following such diets. This particular topic is hardly controversial given widespread discussion re this issue so shouldn't be put in the hot topics section. I'll put it in the general discussions forum.