Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Health => Topic started by: LvB on March 01, 2009, 02:03:30 pm
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For the past year my weight has stayed around 107. More recently it dropped to 105 around when I started eating raw paleo, and for the past two weeks it's been at 103, which is too low for me. In fact, that's the lowest I've ever weighed, and I'm having trouble gaining weight. I go back and forth from days with some IF and some days where I spread out my eating. I always seem to have trouble eating enough when my diet is limited to some certain allowed foods. I've been doing weight training and eating a lot of fat and protein. Yesterday I bought some grass fed beef and marrow bones, today I had a pound of fresh raw salmon and some avocados while the beef and marrow are thawing in the fridge. I'm finding that it's starting to cost a lot to eat like this. I asked the farm where I buy grass-fed beef if they had any organ meats, they didn't have any left, and they may not get any more for a couple of months. I kind of wonder if I should hold off on eating completely raw paleo until I'm done with college and I can afford it better.
Anyway, I really need help gaining weight. I just read about this thing called http://www.orthorexia.com/ (http://www.orthorexia.com/), it's basically an obsession which can apparently become quite unhealthy.
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Eating more raw carbs such as bananas etc. would help weight-gain a lot.You could also drink raw dairy which is one of the raw animal foods which really boosts weight-gain. However, IMO, raw dairy is very unhealthy, and I view the rawpalaeodiet as being highly effective in maintaining an appropriate weight. I used to be extremely overweight on cooked diets (and the dairy-rich primal diet), being massive 110kg with a potbelly etc. - going rawpalaeo made me drop over 20kg in weight, and my muscles actually improved re strength etc.
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I could eat more stuff like bananas. I've always had digestive trouble with dairy, even a little with raw dairy, so I'll probably start with just adding more fruit. I'd rather avoid dairy.
Oh, and it seems that the only thing that's coming off is the little bit of extra fat around my belly and hips. I haven't really noticed much muscle loss.
I once read this article (http://drbass.com/symptoms.html (http://drbass.com/symptoms.html)) which states that there will by symptoms that occur when you improve your diet, and it seemed to go along the lines of the body breaking down old crappy tissues that where made with crappy nutrients from crappy foods, and eventually replaces them with new cells and tissues based on the better foods you are eating now. It says that these processes can take a while, probably adding up to about a month. It sounds similar to the idea of detox. But I don't want to become obsessed with detox, using it as an excuse for feeling crappy, but this gets me thinking that maybe I just need to give it some time, since I've only really been doing real raw paleo for about 2 full weeks.
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You would probably do best to up your fat intake as much as possible and have a low but present carb intake. Maybe one or two pieces of fruit a day, any more than that and I think it may eventually cause problems when trying to eat a mostly protein and fat diet.
Grass fed meat and wild seafood can get expensive, but the cheapest source of calories on the planet (well except some subsidized grain and dairy products) is animal body fat. Most people go for suet. I tried a couple of kinds of fat from animals like ox, bison and I haven't tried the pig fat yet but I bought some. It's definitely an acquired taste, but I got to the point where it's no longer bad and almost sometimes good. When you get to that point you can start eating a lot of it, and it's a ton of calories from fat.
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Given that you've only been RP for a couple weeks, I wouldn't be too concerned yet. Give it a few months. If you're looking to put on some weight, eat some honey, tomatoes, bell pepper, non-sweet fruits with your meat - and make sure that meat is very fatty, preferably beef/bison.
Avocados though full of fat, are actually not that great of a weight gaining food, unless eaten with fatty meat. I've actually noticed avocados tend to be weight reducing. Fish is most definitely not a weight gaining food - though I also usually eat avocado with fish.
Don't eat sweet fruit with beef, it will probably cause your stomach to hurt depending on how much. Know that eating bland fruit with fatty meat will tend to cause a gain in fat, tho it will still help with muscle.
Last, eating in the middle of the night is another great way to put on weight. I usually drink raw goats milk as a midnight snack. If you don't like dairy, tomatoes and eggs are also work.
You are correct in that your body has to take time to replace unhealthy cells with healthy ones. Depending on what type of cells it can take from a few weeks to I think a few years.
Good luck putting on weight. btw, what's your age and height?
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if you want to gain weight you should stop exercising. when you switch your diet to something as dramatic as a raw paleo or primal diet your body is overwhelmed with "clearing house" and rebuilding back up with the better quality foods that you are consuming. rest and relax! exercising is only adding further stress to yourself.
as far as eating a lot and intermittent fasting, that can become quite the vicious cycle of not eating and then overloading with food. Try to find some stability by maybe eating lunch and dinner everyday. Stay with that for a while until you can judge for yourself when your body is hungry and you can go accordingly then.
better quality food does cost more money. no way around it there. I spend 100 dollars a month on raw cream for myself! but that is my main source of fat and I have a very good source for it. I am not concerned about free range and organic and I usually just buy regular ground sirloin from whole foods. It is $5.50 a pound.
If you want to gain weight however, you could always go back and eat cooked foods. LOL, I would always instantly gain weight after eating cooked foods in a day or two after coming off of raw. But cooked foods never satisfied me and I would always be hungry again very shortly after eating cooked. I find eating raw is much more satisfying and I require less to eat.
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I'm 21 and 5' 3". I guess it does make sense that I shouldn't exercise for a while.
As for having to go back and forth between raw and cooking, my parents suddenly decided they don't want me eating raw as long as I'm around them. I'll have to be around them for a while to, because I'm actually living at home this year while commuting to school. It wasn't as hard to convince them that raw fish was ok, because even then they thought that somehow that's not the same as just going to a sushi restaurant. Of course, they didn't know that the only thing that makes fish sushi grade is that it's been pre-frozen. (I'm not getting pre-frozen fish though, it's much better). But as far as beef/bison goes, my dad argues that he knows microbiologists and that raw hamburgur can have e.coli and that it would definitely kill me (of course I was eating grass fed beef from a family farm, minimizing chances of e.coli and bad stuff. Then my mom said I'm becoming a nut and said she didn't want bloody meat getting around the house. The only way I can have raw meat around there now is to make raw jerky because they wouldn't know the difference if it was cooked or raw. My mother decided that she would cook all my meat for me. She still tries to offer me tofu and soymilk when I'm looking for something to eat. :( It's really dissapointing, and this is more motivation to get my own place to live, added to the fact that I drive 40 min to school.
Anyway, I guess I have to postpone being full raw paleo for a while, but I'll still try to get raw meat and fish when I can, and eat it that way. I actually like raw much better now, cooked just tastes wierd to me.
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Good luck on your journey. You could, for now, persuade your parents to allow a cooked-palaeolithic regime, for now(ie grassfed meats, no foods with preservatives or chemicals). Plus, isn't it possible to ask your parents to , at least, cook the meat "rare", or "bleue" as the French say.
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I'm 21 and 5' 3". I guess it does make sense that I shouldn't exercise for a while.
As for having to go back and forth between raw and cooking, my parents suddenly decided they don't want me eating raw as long as I'm around them. I'll have to be around them for a while to, because I'm actually living at home this year while commuting to school. It wasn't as hard to convince them that raw fish was ok, because even then they thought that somehow that's not the same as just going to a sushi restaurant. Of course, they didn't know that the only thing that makes fish sushi grade is that it's been pre-frozen. (I'm not getting pre-frozen fish though, it's much better). But as far as beef/bison goes, my dad argues that he knows microbiologists and that raw hamburgur can have e.coli and that it would definitely kill me (of course I was eating grass fed beef from a family farm, minimizing chances of e.coli and bad stuff. Then my mom said I'm becoming a nut and said she didn't want bloody meat getting around the house. The only way I can have raw meat around there now is to make raw jerky because they wouldn't know the difference if it was cooked or raw. My mother decided that she would cook all my meat for me. She still tries to offer me tofu and soymilk when I'm looking for something to eat. :( It's really dissapointing, and this is more motivation to get my own place to live, added to the fact that I drive 40 min to school.
Anyway, I guess I have to postpone being full raw paleo for a while, but I'll still try to get raw meat and fish when I can, and eat it that way. I actually like raw much better now, cooked just tastes wierd to me.
hey, I am 21 as you and my parents did the same exact thing when I started a year ago eating raw meats around them. They actually said they wouldn't allow in the house but I completely disregarded them and kept on bringing it in and eating it. Now they don't care at all because they have seen me eat it daily for about a year now. It's a joke to them now. Sneak the meat in and hide it in the vegetable draw and eat it at private at first. Keep at it. Once their over irrational fears subside they will see and understand that raw meat is not instant death!
tofu and soymilk? -v -v -v -v -v -v -v no way
I agree with you. raw meat tastes so much better than cooked meat. cooked meat is so dry and does not taste as good once you've eaten raw meat for a while.
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How tall are you? 5, 3"?
Your weight is just fine... Don't gain weight... Cut fat, gain lean muscle. I'm 5, 11 and feel my best at around 125-130. I gained weight and feel like shit. I only want to gain muscle not fat. You may seem skinny to the average person. Remember, the average person is over weight. I feel fat at 150. The average for my hight is 170 or something(i couldn't stand being that big). I hate being indoors in winter. I hate Wisconsin!!! I have to wear like tenpounds of cloths just to go outside!!!!!!!!:'( :'(
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If only I lived in that area! I find snow an amazing phenomenon, and love to ski/throw snowballs etc. For me, a winter without snow is like Christmas without celebrating Santa Claus/Father Christmas. Triouble is that London is a usually a snow-free zone.
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where I am we got a foot of snow today. the first snow storm is nice and fun, but the 5th or 6th is a drag. you just want it gone.
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Ah, but there's the stark white scenery, the vast snow-drifts around cars, the sheer beauty of Nature all in white. And the refreshing cold! By contrast, tropical areas are awful - everyone in those hot areas sits around most of the day, especially in the hours around noon, because they don't want to exercise, given all the excess heat. Plus, there's something drab and boring about dry vegetation, scorched by the sun etc. Yet there are far too many people who go off and booze in those hot areas, mistakenly thinking that hot areas are THE places to visit, while on holiday. I wince whenever I hear of vulgarians who mention they're going off to Barbados/Bermuda etc. in the middle of the English winter.
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I don't mind winter. But in Wisconsin we have about 5-7 months of weather below 45 degrees or below. Today I actually don't mind it for some reason. Thats strange. I'm 50% Arabian. Perhaps I'm more suited for warmer conditions.
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Good luck on your journey. You could, for now, persuade your parents to allow a cooked-palaeolithic regime, for now(ie grassfed meats, no foods with preservatives or chemicals). Plus, isn't it possible to ask your parents to , at least, cook the meat "rare", or "bleue" as the French say.
They would probably be ok with that, in fact when my mom cooked the meat she agreed to just searing it, I'm wondering if there's a way I could sear the outside without heating the whole piece of meat enough to kill all the bacteria. Without the bacteria, I feel like the meat just sits and ferments in my gut for a long time. People say a lot of things about meat "rotting" in your large intestine, because it doesn't get out of the body soon enough. Though I'm not sure whether to believe that for raw meat.
hey, I am 21 as you and my parents did the same exact thing when I started a year ago eating raw meats around them. They actually said they wouldn't allow in the house but I completely disregarded them and kept on bringing it in and eating it. Now they don't care at all because they have seen me eat it daily for about a year now. It's a joke to them now. Sneak the meat in and hide it in the vegetable draw and eat it at private at first. Keep at it. Once their over irrational fears subside they will see and understand that raw meat is not instant death!
tofu and soymilk? Vomit Vomit Vomit Vomit Vomit Vomit Vomit no way
I agree with you. raw meat tastes so much better than cooked meat. cooked meat is so dry and does not taste as good once you've eaten raw meat for a while.
Yeah, that's what I was doing, my mom said it actually bothered her more that I was hiding the meat. I guess for now it's basically gonna be that when I have to eat when they're around, I'll just sear the meat a little, and I'll eat raw meat when I can. I really want to go to a Korean restaurant downtown, I heard that they have a raw beef appetizer. I tell them that I haven't gotten sick yet, and in fact I feel better, but they just don't want to believe it, saying it's in my head and that I'm just rolling the dice every time. Of course with everything you eat your rolling dice, but they just want to believe that it's worse for raw meat. It's frustrating trying to get people to at least think about something in a new way different from that fear of a very unlikely illness. Eh, I guess for now I'm just gonna do what I can.
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How tall are you? 5, 3"?
Your weight is just fine... Don't gain weight... Cut fat, gain lean muscle. I'm 5, 11 and feel my best at around 125-130. I gained weight and feel like shit. I only want to gain muscle not fat. You may seem skinny to the average person. Remember, the average person is over weight. I feel fat at 150. The average for my hight is 170 or something(i couldn't stand being that big). I hate being indoors in winter. I hate Wisconsin!!! I have to wear like tenpounds of cloths just to go outside!!!!!!!!:'( :'(
I feel like my weight is fine, I mean I can run and jump so much better than I could when I felt weighed down. I don't even really look skinny to myself, I mean I know girls who have really skinny arms, mine are definitely not skinny. Ever since I first did rock climbing, I've developed thick muscles on my forearms, and I definitely don't look emaciated. However, my taekwondo instructor did comment that my face looked gaunt and asked me if I was ok. I thought that was kind of odd, because she herself is small and skinny/lean. I guess it's hard for people to recognize whether someone is just lean or too skinny these days because it's "normal" to have some chub.
Yeah, winter this year has been pretty annoying in Indiana, there will be a few nice warm sunny 50 degree days, then BAM freezing wind for a whole week. I feel like the weather is teasing me... :P
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Ah, but there's the stark white scenery, the vast snow-drifts around cars, the sheer beauty of Nature all in white. And the refreshing cold! By contrast, tropical areas are awful - everyone in those hot areas sits around most of the day, especially in the hours around noon, because they don't want to exercise, given all the excess heat. Plus, there's something drab and boring about dry vegetation, scorched by the sun etc. Yet there are far too many people who go off and booze in those hot areas, mistakenly thinking that hot areas are THE places to visit, while on holiday. I wince whenever I hear of vulgarians who mention they're going off to Barbados/Bermuda etc. in the middle of the English winter.
Woah I feel the complete opposite. I hate snow and cold weather but LOVE HOT weather where the sun is so hot and you sweat even if you take a walk...! Maybe it depends on where ones ancestors are from.. My family as long as I can track back are from the south/hot areas..
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Eating RAF way definitely makes my fat into healthy fat that protects me from temperature extremes. My hands used to be cold, my feet like ice, and I got fat on my belly and thighs that was very uneven in temperature, uncomfortable and even painful. I still have a little fat on me, but its temperature is even, it looks better, and it feels good.
I'm loving the cold weather too, it's so nice. I love snow and I love rain, I love cold wind, I love leaving the windows open and keeping the heating turned off, the only thing I don't like is ice on the ground.
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Searing meat definitely leaves most of it raw. That's a very good compromise in my opinion. The only problem is that doesn't take care of your energy requirements, especially if you want to gain weight. The general consensus is that you have to get a lot of your energy either from carbs, fat or a combination, that protein would not work no matter how much you ate. And if you're talking about eating seared steaks, that is very low fat, almost no carbs, and high protein. Even fatty meat I would say needs supplementing from more animal fat or from a carb source.
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I stepped on the scale this morning and I've lost another pound. For a little over a week now I've been having intestinal discomfort, and last night after eating I had a horrible stomach ache. More regularly I don't seem to have bowel movements often, but when I do they're often loose, and almost look just like really finely chewed food, like there's still teeny tiny little chunks in there. Yesterday I was really tired, though I blame that on not getting much sleep last night. I've got gas and bloating a lot, sometimes with some pain. I didn't have a whole lot of appetite yesterday, but I still ate as much as I could, and I still lost weight. Now I'm worried that I might have a parasite.
Searing meat definitely leaves most of it raw. That's a very good compromise in my opinion. The only problem is that doesn't take care of your energy requirements, especially if you want to gain weight. The general consensus is that you have to get a lot of your energy either from carbs, fat or a combination, that protein would not work no matter how much you ate. And if you're talking about eating seared steaks, that is very low fat, almost no carbs, and high protein. Even fatty meat I would say needs supplementing from more animal fat or from a carb source.
I'm trying to get in extra fat, coconut oil, raw almond butter, bone marrow when I can get it. I need to ask the place where I last got grass fed meat if they have suet, they didn't list it on their website. Otherwise I'm going to see if I can make a deal with my parents soon to make an order to slankers, I've been thinking about that lately, it would be a lot easier and save gas too. Of course my mom will just say "Why don't you just go to Whole Foods to get your meat?" and they'll say that I'm being too picky when I say it's because the Whole foods here doesn't have any grass fed beef (and the last time I had grain-fed, it had a taste I didn't like, and I could feel some itchy spots on my arms and neck.) I've been eating as much fat as I can stand, and as much as I can afford to get at this time. Maybe next time I drive to the closest farm, which is 45 min away, I'll stock up on a bunch of the beef soup bones, since they're pretty cheap, and they still have the fatty marrow that I've been craving for (funny how the first one is hard to eat, but afterwards you feel like you can't get enough)
Anyway, my main concern right now is that I might have a parasite. When I went to the doctor last week, I'm pretty sure she ruled out parasites when I said I haven't traveled to any third world countries. Should I just try what Guittarman did with the garlic ginger and peppers, I'm pretty sure my symptoms are different, since I'm actually barely shitting as much as I feel I should. In fact, I feel like there's poo in my large intestine, but it's moving through really slowly. Or maybe that's just gas.
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You could try eating a bunch of pumpkin seeds. They should sell them at Whole Foods, though whether they sell raw or not I don't know. They probably aren't paleo either, but they work VERY well for pushing things through when digestion isn't going too well since they're full of fiber. They help with parasites also.
You could couple that with fresh garlic, ginger, and peppers, which are all excellent for digestion issues and parasites. Peppermint oil helps with bloating and pain from gas.
Maybe that would get things back on track.
I know when I went fully paleo (not raw though), I had very similar issues. I didn't stay on it long enough (I believe it was three weeks) to see if it was just temporary and a change in intestinal flora or not. But I also had poor digestion, less bowel movements with loose ones when I did, and some bloating problems. I was eating a ton of protein and not enough fat, so maybe it's related to that.
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You could try eating a bunch of pumpkin seeds. They should sell them at Whole Foods, though whether they sell raw or not I don't know. They probably aren't paleo either, but they work VERY well for pushing things through when digestion isn't going too well since they're full of fiber. They help with parasites also.
I'm surprised by how many people, even on "alternative health" forums, stick to this old FIBER myth. Many low carb diet books even recommend you take psyllium when you switch diet to include less fiber, in order to keep frequent bowel movements. It might be true that many in today's world are dependent on this irritant (fiber) in order to maintain bowel movements at all, but in the long run, eating too many nuts/seeds/psyllium/oats/high-fiber foods will only degrade bowel function, and might lead to IBS and other more serious diseases of the digestive system.
Fiber doesn't help with constipation at all. This is from my own experience, from other people I know, and from the unbiased information about fiber that is available. The notion that indigestible carbohydrates (fiber) help with constipation is a little like saying satin drugs decrease mortality from heart disease (which I hope most people here know is not really true, and comes at a great price: increased risk of many other diseases).
How many times I myself have tried taking psyllium and other high-fiber garbage, advertised to "regulate colon", "cure constipation", "Removes toxic waste from colon".. It only ruined my digestion even more.
To anyone who suffers from constipation: Be careful with fiber, especially from things like nuts/seeds/whole grains/psyllium/rough vegetables.
Insoluble fiber (the fiber advertised to promote regularity) is like sandpaper to the intestines IMO, and gives the digestion an enormous amount of work (digesting fiber+food, separating fiber from the starch/sugar, excreting fiber). Insoluble fiber does not dissolve in water, it messes w/ absorption of glucose and some important minerals, and it changes the pH of the colon in the wrong direction.
Soluble fiber absorbs up to 10x its own weight in water, slows down the rate at which the stomach empties, slows the movement of food throughout the digestive tract, feeds bacteria in the colon (it's degraded by bacteria such as candida/yeast), might lower total cholesterol if eaten in huge amounts (the health-giving, anti-oxidative, Vitamin D and cell-membrane building cholesterol), binds with fatty acids, increases hunger, and gives the digestion a lot of unnecessary extra work.
It is true that for people who don't have constipation, fiber will increase stool frequency/size: Fiber is a material that is undigestible, has completely no purpose in the human body, and needs to be excreted: otherwise it would block the digestive track. The body gets rid of fiber because it doesn't WANT IT: fiber is unusable, unassimilable, and blocks everything. Constipation is when the digestive system (for a reason unrelated to fiber) can't excrete the fiber (along with other bacteria needed to be excreted) fast enough, so it adds up in the digestive tract: why ADD more fiber? To increase the load on the digestive system? Damage it even more?
Watch out with fiber in case of constipation because it might make the constipation much worse, especially if you have lousy digestion. It often just bloats the digestive tract more, can create problems such as malabsorption/maldigestion, even create polyps and worse.
The best way to treat constipation is to reduce fiber and to eat much more fat. Animal fat or butter. Fat lubricates the intestines, and lack of fat/lubrication is the main cause of constipation (along with other crappy foods people might be eating). I don't think anyone can stay constipated for long if they over-eat on animal fat.
The absolutely best way to heal constipation, IBS, and numerous other digestive issues is to go Zero gram fiber for a couple of weeks while eating good amounts of saturated fats to smooth/heal the intestines. That means only meat/fish/eggs/seafood/honey/fruit JUICES/butter. ZERO whole fruits, seeds, nuts, vegetables, whole grains
Fiber Menace: The Truth About the Leading Role of Fiber in Diet Failure, Constipation, Hemorrhoids, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Ulcerative Colitis, Crohn's Disease, and Colon Cancer.
You probably believe fiber prevents colon and breast cancer, lowers cholesterol, reduces the risk of heart disease, regulates blood sugar, wards off diabetes, curbs the appetite, induces weight loss, cleanses the colon, arrests diarrhea, and unplugs constipation. Tragically, none of this is true!
In fact, fiber-rich foods and fiber supplements are either the primary cause of most of these conditions, or major contributors. Please watch my investigative report (or read the transcript) to learn the truth. If you consume fiber for any health reasons, the next 14 minutes will turn your life and health around:
What you've just seen is only a small part of this incredulously bizarre consumer fraud and medical crime. The larger part: fiber has its 'dirty hands' in over fifty plus other disorders listed on the right. In this context, reducing fiber in your diet may end up becoming one of the most transformational experiences of your life. Here is the rest of this story...
http://www.fibermenace.com/fibermenace/about_fm.html
You might be surprised to find out that the original intent behind fiber consumption wasn’t the betterment of your health, but the suppression of sexuality! As this book explains, fiber has indeed succeeded at rendering a great many men and women sexually dysfunctional.
That's why just a generation ago, avoiding fiber was the quintessence of prudent nutrition. Caring parents everywhere, American and European alike, were earnestly peeling fruits (apples, peaches, pears, prunes) and skinning vegetables (tomatoes, peppers, eggplant, potatoes) before giving them to children or eating them themselves.
The French and Italians still do it. And the Japanese diet is practically fiber-free. Americans, on the other hand, are urged to consume 30 to 40 grams of dietary fiber daily, regardless of their age and health.
Many heed this advice (some with a vengeance), assuming there can’t be too much of a good thing. The outcome is predictable: a pandemic of digestive disorders, diabetes, heart disease, cancers, and obesity. These problems are worse in the United States than in any other Western country.
All this seems hard to believe until you actually begin examining the role of fiber in human nutrition, Thus, the point of Fiber Menace isn't telling you what to eat, but what not to eat and why.
http://www.fibermenace.com/fibermenace/about_fm.html
Author's note:
As you can see, fiber's toll on our health is huge. On a purely statistical level, fiber causes more harm and death than tobacco, alcohol, and illicit drugs combined.
Not surprisingly, just as in the case of the tobacco industry, those who benefit most from peddling fiber will keep squeezing every penny of profit out of it for as long as they can weasel their way around the truth.
And why not? Baking cereals from cattle chow (bran), or making laxatives from chicken feed (psyllium) is as profitable as minting money. No, probably more profitable!
Another aspect of this tragedy is even scarier. Just as tobacco keeps a substantial slice of the medical industry gainfully employed, patching up fiber's shenanigans makes it rich. So why stop the windfall?
Fortunately, there is hope. This is an institutional problem, not a professional one. The absolute majority of honest, hard-working, and honorable doctors, nurses, pharmacists, nutritionists, and dietitians are as victimized by fiber-related deception as their patients...
http://www.fibermenace.com/fibermenace/about_fm.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz53dawDtJ8&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGg8ya_U7CQ&feature=channel
http://www.fibermenace.com/fibermenace/fm_transcript.html
http://www.fibermenace.com/fibermenace/about_fm.html
Sorry to go off a tangent in this thread but this fiber myth needs to be stopped.
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From someone who experienced 10 years of IBS (constipation, bloating) fibre is the enemy. The amount of prunes, psyluim husks as well as healthy grains, fruit and vegetables I ate was ridiculous and they made me worse and worse.
I found eating and drinking crap was the only thing that gave me relief!
Raw Paleo cures IBS. Raw carnivore puts it to bed completely.
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Hey LvB,
I've got a few ideas and a few questions for you:
What does your diet generally consist of? What kind of meat, how cooked, any sauces? Fruits/veggies? Any supplements? How much of each and how often do you eat?
It doesn't sound like you have parasites, at least not the ones I had. Some of your symptoms sound a little like cycles I was going through for a few months when I ate alot of ground beef. I would eat a good 1-2lb a day, and be great for 2-3 weeks, then have a week of a bloated stomach like my system was backed up, with a combo of either slight constipation and/or minor diahrea, kind of like I never could just get everything out in one sitting. Not entirely sure why ground beef did this, but when I switched to ribeye, ribs, and short ribs, these symptoms all abated and I actually eat even more beef than I used to.
I agree somewhat with the Seeker, but small amounts of fiber that you would get from fruit shouldn't be to much problem. Often bell peppers and fibrous type fruits will come out as undigested bits for me; I don't really eat these anymore, not b/c of that, just don't have much taste for them anymore. Have you been eating vegetables much? That is, the non-seed bearing, fibrous/leafy vegitative portion of any plant. When I first started RP, I tried lots of carrots, broccoli, asparagus, seeds, chick peas, etc and found they only caused stomach pain and poor digestion. If you're trying to clear up the digestive system, you need to give it easily digestible foods and or foods that tend to help break down other foods. This can include - honey, apple cider vinegar, lemons/limes, eggs. Here are some combos that can cause a fairly quick bowel reaction in order of least to greatest (for me): eggs/honey; eggs/tomato, eggs/oranges or light citrus; eggs/lemon or lime, adding honey in almost any situation can't hurt. This combo helps break down and clear any rubbish in the digestive tract, while restoring a balance of good flora, especially if you've let the (organic) eggs sit out for a week or so (tho it's not necessary).
ACV is a strong acid that can help break down proteins and can get the system moving, but I've never tried it with eggs. [and as a wild ass guess, I would think it tends to move through to the intestines not much disturbed in chemical nature by the stomach, where it then helps break down food, esp proteins, that may not have fully digested in the stomach before passing to the intestine: and as I write that, I wonder if that's why ground beef doesn't do well - b/c since it's already ground up, it passes too easily to the intestines before getting the full digestive/acid treatment from the stomach, eventually causing a backup] but I digress... ACV can cause some discomfort if you drink too much,, say any more than 1/8 cup. I usually mix 1 heaping spoonful of honey, a couple spoonfulls of ACV and some herbs as a sauce for flavor w/ my beef at night.
Last, I know that grassfed is much better than grainfed, but the only grassfed I can find in Las Vegas doesn't have anywhere near enough fat for me, and the bone marrow and suet are all non-organic, so I just buy lots of grainfed from Whole Foods. It's not perfect, but if you're having trouble getting organic, know that grainfed is still okay (in my experience), just be sure to get the all-natural stuff.
So to sum up I would give this a try: Make sure you're on a relatively empty stomach (breakfast is good), eat all these together - a spoonful or so of raw, UNHEATED honey (raw may not actually be raw, the label must say unheated, and usually gab on about enzymes), a few organic raw eggs, and a lemon or lime (whichever you have a taste for; juice, not whole slices (too much fiber), juiceing w/ teeth works fine). You can stop at just this, or eat more of any one item if you particularly enjoyed the taste. From here probably one of two things will happen. Either:
1. Should react pretty quick, 1 or 2 hrs at most, and help clear you out. You can then eat a small raw egg/strawberry/raspberry/honey/coconut oil smoothie when you start getting hungry if you liked the way the above made you feel. Make sure your next meal after that is a good portioned bit of fatty meat, not ground beef tho. You can skip the smoothie if you really feel like some beef.
OR
2. Things kind of stick around in your system w/o much reaction. Probably feel a little bloated and maybe some upset. That's fine, just let it sit there for a few hours or more until you're getting pretty hungry. Then eat a medium sized portion of very fatty meat with some of the honey/ACV combo I mentioned earlier.
I think that should probably help you out and restore some balance to your digestive system. If it doesn't work the first time, wait till your stomach empties, your are hungry, and give it one more try. Let me know how it works out.
-Jason
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I generally eat fish 2 or more times a week, about a pound a day. Usually I get arctic char, and I can get it fresh. If I can't get that I go to Whole Foods for beef. The last few times I've had grain-fed meat it had an odd subtle taste that I just didn't like, it wasn't "bad" but it just made me feel gross. That was when I had bison though, maybe beef isn't like that for me.
I was eating a lot of fruit, a banana, some apples, but I've switched to eating more vegetables, carrots, bell peppers, spinach. I'm trying to eat less sugary fruit because I figured that I might have candida (i've had actual infections of it that the doctor prescribed in the past) and I didn't want too many carbs, but I figured I shouldn't abandon vegetables entirely.
As for fat, I know where I can get some good eggs, I just need to get them tomorrow. I've got a jar of unrefined extra virgin coconut oil which I try to eat. I can only really eat 2 tbsp, I can't stand to eat more than that. I've been trying to get fat from creamy almond butter and macadamia nuts, but I guess that would be more fiber than I need. I don't have enough animal fats like marrow or suet, i only have 2 packages of marrow bones left, I'm going to eat one tomorrow.
I don't have an appetite to eat, in fact when i tried eating some coconut oil tonight I got a headache and felt kinda gross for a bit, even though all I've had so far today was some raw honey, some juiced carrots, cucumber, and beets. Still, part of me worries that I'm not eating enough, because when this happens the next day I feel light headed and weak. If I wasn't in classes where attendance mattered so much I would take a day off and get the rest I badly need, but my spring break comes up in 2 days anyway.
I've been taking cod liver oil lately because most of my beef is grain fed. I try to eat early in the day if I can, though most of the time I struggle to eat enough around dinner time, because I can't take everything to school with me. I've made jerky a few times, and that worked out well, but I haven't had time to make it lately. It will take me almost a whole afternoon to prepare jerky. I think this weekend I'm going to spend my free time on that. I use Lex's $10 jerky maker.
I'll have to get some eggs tomorrow after school, so I can try this thing on Thursday. For now though, I'm gonna have to eat some more raw almond butter just to feel like I've eaten enough. Hopefully one more night of that won't make it too much worse.
I did notice that when I ate some raw honey this morning it caused me to have a bowel movement after an hour, even though I'd already had one earlier that morning.
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Some people have had issues with coconut oil. I just mention this as you referred to a headache after eating coconut oil.
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I'm freaking out, I'm now down to 101 pounds, and I look BAD I mean almost anorexic. I'm considering going to cooked paleo for a while, I mean, I can't let my weight drop into the 90's just because. I'm serious, I fucking feel like shit, and now my muscles have even been deteriorating. IN TWO DAYS I've gone from 103 to 101. At least at 103 I still had my muscle strength and felt ok. I don't think I have time with my schedule to be strict and have positive results with this diet, I'm about to eat some cottage cheese, and I don't care, I feel like it will help me gain some weight. I feel like calling the doctor, because nothing I'm doing right now seems to be working.
Last night I had some serious diarrhea (at least not constipated anymore) and this drastic weight loss even though I'm eating as much as I can stand and this morning after going to the bathroom I weighed myself. I'm really close to just setting this stuff aside because it's causing more complications than I had with any other diet. I know that the whole "symptoms of improving diet" is that I'm supposed to lose weight despite what I'm eating for a while, but I really don't feel that it's healthy to just believe it's that if the weight loss has gone on for 3 straight weeks.
I really need to know if anyone else here had this fast weight loss occur for this long or even a little longer, but when they continued eating that way never the less, they eventually stopped losing weight, and eventually gained it back. I know maybe I shouldn't be so hasty, but seriously, I don't think becoming weak and emaciated is to be viewed as a good sign at all.
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I lost a lot of weight and looked too thin on raw vegan, and then when I started getting used to eating more calories on that I started to gain a little back. Then I started doing some Primal Diet stuff and gained a little more, and pretty much stabalized at what I was when I was cooked vegetarian. I still have some weight I'd like to gain back from before I started the diet changes, but where I'm at now is ok.
Try eating raw meat for the first half of the day and then make a big meal from one of those paleo cook books like Sally Fallon's. Or you can do a bit of the Primal Diet, I recommend the butter drinks as butter is the best of the dairy products to eat, to gain some weight and see how that works. There's many options for you to try other than giving up entirely. You could even just try eating raw meat for the first half of the day and then eat whatever junk you want later, at least you'll be getting quality nutrients. The way I see it the diet consists of two benefits, one being getting the nutrients you need, the other being not getting the toxins you don't want. As long as you eat a good amount of raw meat a day you'll fulfill the first, and if you eat junk also you will be getting stuff you don't want, but I think that's the less important of the two benefits.
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I hope you figure out what's going on and remedy it soon. Sorry to not have much in the way of advice, but do try to relax a bit. Stress in itself can cause weight loss.
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"Soluble fiber absorbs up to 10x its own weight in water, slows down the rate at which the stomach empties, slows the movement of food throughout the digestive tract, feeds bacteria in the colon (it's degraded by bacteria such as candida/yeast)"
a well researched, useful post, seeker -- at least in my opinion -- agree w/ you
just for the record, though:
candida & other yeasts as well as all molds are not bacteria but fungi
fungus overgrowth = the serious problem
bacteria = the basis of life
incidentally, i've heard that fungi overgrowth is the result of mineral deficiencies -- which makes sense considering that plant fiber depletes the much needed mineral supply in the body
other possible results of mineral deficiency might be:
liver dysfunction, ph imbalance, blood sugar imbalance, body temperature imbalance...
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I should apologize for getting upset earlier, I guess I need to view this as experimental, and weight loss was just the result of what I was doing.
This morning I did something different. I ate about 14 oz of raw fish, ate two oz of raw beef bone marrow, and two pieces of fruit in the afternoon. I did this to make sure that I have enough to eat for the whole day, I think that may have been linked to my weight loss. 1.) I was eating too much fiber and not enough animal fat. 2.) I waited until the end of the day to eat, which is when eating became a burden.
Eating half my day's food in the morning as breakfast gave me energy through the afternoon, I didn't feel like I needed to eat much, and I actually had more energy than I have had in the past few days. Also I'm not having to worry as much about how much I need to eat in the evening, it feels like a reasonable amount. I think this is something I can keep up with too. I like having raw meat early in the day, after the digestion is out of the way I feel great the rest of the day.
By the way, I'm taking note of that stuff about fiber, and I'll make an effort to get less. Oh, and Guittarman, I'm gonna try what you suggested tomorrow morning--I now have my eggs.
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You would probably do best to up your fat intake as much as possible and have a low but present carb intake. Maybe one or two pieces of fruit a day, any more than that and I think it may eventually cause problems when trying to eat a mostly protein and fat diet.
I have a question about this: I'm curious how it would cause problems, is it blood-sugar related? I guess it would help to understand what you're basing that on before I make a decision regarding it.
The day before I had the severe diarrhea, I had eaten some raw garlic and ginger, then later I had some carrot and beet juice. I stayed away from any fruit, but I did eat a little honey. I noticed that my weight continued to decline when I ate like this. When reading through different posts, I've noticed that early on in this diet some people did eat a moderate amount of fruit for a while, and eventually worked their way off of it.
Either way, I'm going to keep up with what I did before to see what happens. I hope to get a few pounds back because my mom is taking notice that I've been losing it, and since she doesn't understand how the body changes when going to a better diet, she assumes weight loss = bad. Of course, I admit that I freaked out too, I guess I'm still learning to be patient with it. I'm going to find out if the grass-fed farm I've been to in the past has suet. If not, I'll get some of their soup bones, because they've got fatty meat on them and the fatty marrow inside at least, and they're cheap! Then I guess I'll ask the butcher I've gone to for fish if I can get some suet there.
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Glad to hear you're feeling a little better. I know the feeling when things are going the exact opposite of what you're looking for and you're getting really frustrated and can't figure out why. Do you feel like your digestive system has regained some balance? Know that when you do the honey/eggs/lime, it's likely going to clear your system out quick, and leave you hungry anywhere from 30 mins - 2 hrs, and you need a good solid meal of plenty of animal fat and protein. If not, you will only feel weak and lose more weight.
The only way you can really get away with 1 meal a day is to eat large, and I mean large amounts of fat in one meal. I can get through a day with just 1 big meal, but even then it's spread over 1-3 hours and I will eat anywhere between 1500 and 2500 calories in straight fat, not to mention the protein. Fruit/veggies/nuts/extracted fats can be okay as supplemental snacks, but are definitely secondary and less ideal.
Couple notes: I've found eating coconut oil can leave me feeling like I want to puke in more than a small spoonful. Most "extra virgin," cold or expeller pressed coconut oil, if you call the manufacturer and ask for the max temp it gets in processing, they will tell you something like 115 degrees. It's good for lotion and hair styling tho. Also, moderate amounts of fruit shouldn't hurt (not like veggies can), though it may not be as helpful as animal products. If you feel the instinct to eat fruit, then do so, just don't mix with protein unless its non-starchy non sweet. I used to eat alot of oranges, pineapple, watermelon, papaya; but found as time passed I lost my taste for them. Go with your instincts... go with your gut. Even now if I spend a night drinking I end up eating more fruit the next day out of instinct.
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Even now if I spend a night drinking I end up eating more fruit the next day out of instinct.
What makes you have to drink; are you drinking plain water? Why do you need fruit the next day then?
I am just trying to understand hydration from all angles - every body seems to understand hydration, gut, bloating... in different ways!
Nicola
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I tried the honey/eggs/limes and my bowels feel like they're moving something, but all that comes out is gas. I even tried honey and ACV and then eggs a couple hours after that, then ate some fatty meat and marrow.
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The best laxative (if you need one) is raw butter (from organic/grassfed animals). Eat UP TO 1/4 pound (up to 100 grams) in one sitting and within a couple of hours you should be having numerous bowel movements.
Though don't eat that much fat on an empty stomach, eat it with meat or something else, or you might throw up.
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Woah I feel the complete opposite. I hate snow and cold weather but LOVE HOT weather where the sun is so hot and you sweat even if you take a walk...! Maybe it depends on where ones ancestors are from.. My family as long as I can track back are from the south/hot areas..
I agreee!!!!!!!!!!!! I become less active when its COLLD!!!! I want heat!!! Walkin runin and training in heat!!! I'm way more active when its warmer!!!!! THats why things hybernate in the winter!!! But everyone is different.
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I agreee!!!!!!!!!!!! I become less active when its COLLD!!!! I want heat!!! Walkin runin and training in heat!!! I'm way more active when its warmer!!!!! THats why things hybernate in the winter!!! But everyone is different.
I would beg to differ. If you look at animals(and humans) in more tropical areas, you'll find that most of those just sit around and do nothing during the main heat of the day, being far more active in the early morning and early evening.
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The ability to be active during the heat of the day (tall,thin,no fur,sweat glands) is what made us such good hunters. Were made for the heat not the cold.
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The ability to be active during the heat of the day (tall,thin,no fur,sweat glands) is what made us such good hunters. Were made for the heat not the cold.
Exactly. Although, some have adaptations to different climates and different levels of humidity. I once read that there are a group of people in the tropics that don't sweat that much because it isn't necessarily beneficial where they live. I would hate to live in a dark rain forest as much as i would hate to live in the arctic. I think some parts of Arizona I would like the most.
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The ability to be active during the heat of the day (tall,thin,no fur,sweat glands) is what made us such good hunters. Were made for the heat not the cold.
I agree 100%.
Tyler, people I've seen do just the opposite of what you describe. They move, exercise and are outside much more during hot/sunny weather. People also seem much happier when it's sunny
Maybe the people you have personally met who "just sit around" during hot weather, do the same during colder weather? Has more to do with their personality/culture?
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Well, the Eskimoes are undoubtedly suited more to the cold given their physiology(smaller stature etc.)
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I agree 100%.
Tyler, people I've seen do just the opposite of what you describe. They move, exercise and are outside much more during hot/sunny weather. People also seem much happier when it's sunny
Maybe the people you have personally met who "just sit around" during hot weather, do the same during colder weather? Has more to do with their personality/culture?
In my country the Philippines, people cannot work during the hot and humid time of the day, or summer season. Especially before air-conditioning became popular.
So people do their activities in the early morning, when it's hot slow down, stay indoors, then late afternoon be merry again.
Before air conditioning, every summer our government moved from Manila to the mountain city of Baguio so the climate was cool enough to work.
In the 1950s they tried moving summer break to the same time as USA summer break, but the students and the teachers found it impossible to study due to the heat during our real summer months of march, april, may.
I myself encourage my kids to go out and play early morning until 10am and resume outdoor activity around 3:30pm.
Our hot summer and mid-day temperature is some 33 degrees to 37 degrees celcius and high humidity
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GS is simply stating what anyone sees when they visit developing nations in the tropics. Heck, even sunny Spain has siestas where nothing's open for hours in the middle of the day. True, some countries, with really hot areas, such as the US, have air-conditioning in almost every home and workplace, so can get around it to some extent, but for those regions with very little in the way of air-conditioning(ie everyone in Palaeo times), the people there
would have had to just sit or lie around in the middle of the day like lions and other animals commonly do, so as to avoid over-exerting themselves and getting heat-stroke etc.