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Messages - JustAnotherExplorer

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26
Raw Weston Price / Re: Fan of Price's work
« on: October 30, 2008, 10:19:59 am »
Well, that's certainly disappointing.  :'(

27
General Discussion / Re: Digestion Times For RAF
« on: October 30, 2008, 08:42:43 am »
In his book, Experiments and observations on the gastric juice, and the physiology of digestion
 Dr. William Beaumont experiments on the victim of a gunshot wound who has been left with on open stomach. I haven't re-read this but I do believe that, according to this, cooked meat does seem to digest faster than raw meat but neither digest as fast as plant matter, at least so far as the stomach is concerned. He also found that digestion outside the body was slower, if I remember correctly. This is only one person though.

Google will only let me look at so much of the book, and I've reached my limit -[ but it seems that you are correct.

28
Raw Weston Price / Re: Fan of Price's work
« on: October 30, 2008, 08:01:31 am »
(& tropical traditions & organic pastures = grain fed cows);[/url]

Where do you get the info that Organic Pastures grain feeds their cows?  On their packaging and on their website they claim that the graze in the fields.  They even have mobile milking barns that they take to the part of the pasture where their cows are fed, rather than having to keep the cows in one place.

29
General Discussion / Re: Digestion Times For RAF
« on: October 30, 2008, 07:42:58 am »
I agree that cats are a closer surrogate to humans than snakes are, but, AFAIK, the Pottenger studies tell us nothing about the amount of time that it takes for food to be digested and so both studies provide us with useful information.

Wrangham's name is on the python paper but I have no clue how much work he actually did on the project.  It is very common in academia for supervisors who have done no or little work to have their names put on papers above their subordinates.  I do not know if that is what happened in this case or not.  How is it that you are aware that he was "intimately involved?"  If you're basing that on anything other than the position of his name in the citation I'd love to see it.

As per what I know of the Oste study (mainly what is reported by Beyondveg), it is perfectly plausible, absent evidence to the contrary, that enzymes and some nutrients are destroyed at 40 degrees Celsius but that no significant changes to the digestability of the protein take place until temperatures of close to 100 Celsius are reached.  Just because charred, well done meat is significantly less digestible than raw does not require that meat cooked rare be at all less digestible than raw (yes, some nutrients are destroyed, but that is entirely a separate question.)

As per the creation of AGE's and other toxins, in all things it is the dose that creates the poison.  While these substances are arguably detrimental in large quantities and probably never beneficial it is still an assumption to believe that in small quantities the body is incapable of dealing with them without lasting harm.  Dr. Eades has pointed out that no evidence exists that the consumption of AGE's in ones diet causes any increase of AGE's to be stored or formed in the body.  I don't know if he's right, but I haven't seen any evidence to contradict him.  This point on AGE's seems applicable to both vegetables and meat.  Your other point on phytonutrients versus antinutrients seems to me to be a question solely of quantity consumed without regards for preparation method.

30
Off Topic / Re: Youtube wealth video
« on: October 30, 2008, 06:37:05 am »
Nice vid.  I've never watched anything from him before.  What he's encapsulated here is pretty much how I try and view the world.  I found it a good and enjoyable reminder.

31
Info / News Items / Announcements / Re: Blending Raw Organs
« on: October 30, 2008, 06:09:16 am »
Hi G,

How are you getting on with the blended raw organ meats?  I've been eating RAF for about 7 years now and regularly use a similar method myself for consuming my nutritious organs.  Certainly, I've never experienced any problems with this.  I tend to blend some good mineral water with the juice of 1 lime, a couple of whole tomatoes and 3-4 desert spoons of chopped raw lamb's liver.  It certainly hits the spot as I frequently have this for breakfast and can go all day on it!

Good to see a new person on here from the UK!

Michael
 

I may try this, but I have no idea what size a desert spoon is.  Can you give an estimate of weight in grams (or any other standard measurement that is convenient for you)?  Have you ever tried with other types of liver?  I don't have any lamb's so would probably be trying with beef.  I wonder how different the taste would be or if you would season it differently.

32
General Discussion / Re: Digestion Times For RAF
« on: October 30, 2008, 06:01:44 am »
Wrangham was one of the authors of the study, but another collaborator was Stephen Secor whose main focus of research has been the digestive system of pythons http://lib.bioinfo.pl/auth:Secor,SM.  Because of this I see no reason to doubt the accuracy of the descriptions of times and energy levels of python digestion.  The extrapolation to humans at the beginning of the abstract is a lot dodgier, but all of us who've made it this far into the world of interpreting and digesting (pun intended) research should be familiar with how fast and loose many authors are with inserting opinions and conclusions into abstracts that have absolutely nothing to do with the data presented in the paper (e.g. many studies that purport to vilify cholesterol and Saturated fat).  I see no reason why snakes can't digest cooked meat more easily than raw while it being the reverse for humans.

I have not read the full studies that you linked to, just the abstracts, but the first one seems to indicate that many plant foods are more easily digestible when cooked (hmm, should we be eating raw meat and cooked plants?) and the only reference to protein digestibility refers to "excessive heat."  Without referring to the body of the study I can't know exactly what temperature "excessive heat" refers to or if the damage caused increases linearly or exponentially as temperatures are raised.  I don't want to make any assumptions, but based just on this info it is equally as likely that low temperature cooking is beneficial or neutral as it is harmful.

From the second study, I'm really not sure what Volatile Ammonium Bases are or what affect they have on digestion, if any.  From a Google search it also appears that these substances have only been measured in fish, not land animals, so the study doesn't necessarily have any bearing whatsoever on the cooking of terrestrial meat.  Without knowing what effect VAB's actually have on the human body or digestion of fish I can't say that this study gives us any information on the human digestion of cooked seafood either.  Also, the study found similar changes in the fish not only from cooking but from freezing and storing.  The freezing and storing is exactly what the Inuit would do, so saying that a change caused by cooking is bad when the same change caused by freezing and storing is neutral or good seems untenable to me.

33
General Discussion / Re: Digestion Times For RAF
« on: October 29, 2008, 05:29:48 pm »
The only study that I'm aware of that comes anywhere close to addressing this question is one where they fed four pythons identical amounts of beef, one raw, one cooked, one raw and ground, one cooked and ground.  They came to the conclusion that it took less time and energy to consume the meat when it was cooked or ground than when it was raw with even greater reductions when the meat was ground and cooked.
http://lib.bioinfo.pl/pmid:17827047

How applicable this information is to humans is anybody's guess, as is the question of which snake received the most nutritive benefit.

34
Hot Topics / Re: Blood
« on: October 29, 2008, 04:59:05 pm »
If you're talking store bought meat (as opposed to a fresh kill) then over 99% of the blood is drained out before it gets to you.  My understanding is that what's left is intersitial fluid and cytosol colored mainly by myoglobin.

35
Hot Topics / Re: Humans made fire 790,000 years ago...
« on: October 29, 2008, 04:54:26 pm »
But you must have used some tool to get the fish off the fire, right?

Don't need anything more complicated than a stick for that.

36
Hot Topics / Re: Charles Zero-Carb Running Journal
« on: October 27, 2008, 12:49:53 pm »
Why does he cook his meat - raw meat and fat could make a health jump  :o

When queried about this in the past he replied that none of the primitive societies that he was aware of ate a diet high in raw animal foods.  He prefers to cook his meats to medium.

edit:  upon reading some of Charle's new forum he now says that he eats his beef medium-rare and is getting rarer.

37
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet / Re: How many carbs do you need?
« on: October 27, 2008, 05:59:10 am »
At this moment my thought is: our body need some glucose (undeniable fact), there's no reason to force it to get it from protein (via neoglucogenesis), it's more convenient to get it directly from carbos.

One relevant question is if you are forcing the body to make glucose from protein by depriving it of dietary carbohydrates or if it's going to convert the same percentage of protein into glucose anyway, without regard for dietary carbo intake.

38
General Discussion / Re: Fatty Fish
« on: October 27, 2008, 05:47:05 am »
Bears do not at the flesh, only the skin. This is where the fat is.

This may be sometimes true, but I have seen video of grizzly bears consuming the entire fish.

39
Journals / Re: Lex's Journal
« on: October 25, 2008, 08:56:10 am »
I remain fascinated, as always, Lex, and am glad to hear that you're doing well.  When you do return here's a question for your consideration.  I understand that you sometimes (maybe twice a month, if I recall correctly) dine out and consume a cooked, very rare, steak or two.  Do you notice any differences, physiological, digestive, energetic or what have you upon consuming these in lieu of the raw meat?

40
Off Topic / Re: Nutritional Link to Violent Crimes?
« on: October 10, 2008, 08:27:03 am »
I think that we will likely all agree that nutrition, particularly in the formative years of childhood and in the womb, have a profound effect on the function of the brain and other related systems of the body.  I find it very plausible that diet affects mood and judgment.  Proving this, and particularly proving a causal link between crime and diet, is likely to be impossible.

Looking for correlations between criminals and diet will be just as hard and fraught with error as any other epidemiological study.  (Starting with the fact that self reporting of diet is very unreliable, all of the experts on this board excluded from that generalization, of course  ;))  Your criteria for ruling out other factors is very vague and the example does not prove your point.  We can just as easily assume that the armed robber killed the clerk for fun and that the money is just a prize.  In giving the criminal a motive we've created and accepted a non-testable hypothesis.

Most people do the right thing most of the time, but there does exist a small percentage of the population0 that has no real empathy for others and their suffering.  We call them sociopaths.  It would take a lot of work to convince me that diet has a crucial role in the brain disorders that cause sociopathy.  There is some evidence that connects sociopathy with oxytocin disorders.  The June 08 Scientific American has a great article that looks into some of that research.

41
General Discussion / Re: Salt is a chemical
« on: October 10, 2008, 04:51:51 am »
The Bear's link doesn't appear to have anything diet related in it. All I see is silver, enamel, and some Grateful Dead stuff. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong spot?
Yep, looking in the wrong spot.  His diet and exercise text is in his Essay section.

http://www.thebear.org/essays1.html#anchor496162

42
Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / Re: Braaaaains
« on: October 07, 2008, 11:07:37 am »
Brains are illegal in the US.

Do you have any source for this?  I'm not certain, but I don't think that this is the case.  If it is true then someone should be able to point us to the appropriate laws.

While I have never had the pleasure of eating them myself, I know that the San Francisco restaurant Incanto has served calves brains at least once and as recently as last year.

43
Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / Re: Glycogen on a raw carnivore diet
« on: September 30, 2008, 04:33:00 am »
One of the problems with Dogs and endurance is that they can't sweat.  In order to cool themselves down they need to pant, evaporating water from their tongues.  AFAIK, they are unable to pant while running and need to come to a stop.

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