Its interesting to see that 4/7 people that have voted so far said they'd eat greater than 70% protein. I wasn't going to even make this an option but apparently I should have just gone all the way to 100. A diet of 100 percent protein and you will almost surely die very quickly. Check out the redfulcrum experiment if you need confirmation. In my opinion a diet of 70% protein will probably kill you sooner than later as well.

A diet of 70% protein for an inactive person getting around 2000 calories per day would be around 350 grams per day or in the area of 4-5g/kg body weight for most people on the board which is more than even the upper echelon of intense body-building programs recommend. Don Matesz (a paleo blogger), wrote extensively on health problems of the inuit and for me it seemed like a likely cause was the excess protein in their diet which modern science has confirmed has lead to urinary calcium excretion when protein starts to climb above 2g/kg. He posted a few papers(I don't link papers anymore) and one stating that protein became toxic at 280g/day.

Obviously, I wasn't thinking people would actually sit down and do the maths as most are unaware of what a high protein diet will do in the absence of other energy. There is simply a limited capacity to turn protein into energy. Once you exceed this capacity the protein has no where to go.

Thanks for sharing the link wodginy. I've had chronic and persistent minor head aches, brain fog, back aches, poor digestion and general tiredness and apathy for life since I was a teenager. Coming to terms with the depression, anger and other largely unexpressed emotions behind these symptoms has made an enormous impact for me. My anxiety book has a good bit of material examining the different areas of the body that seem to contain the pain of unexpressed emotions. For me, as long as I don't eat processed junk, diet has almost nothing to do with how I feel. Its much more to do with expressing myself. I've just held back so, so much.

Hey there feri, I am struggling through addictions myself right now and I'm now in the process of recovering. I don't have a true addiction to compulsive overeating but I do struggle and use food as an outlet for my emotions.

For those who do not have addiction problems its very hard to have empathy for those who go through such wretched torment and the pervasive craving for whatever it is that they are addicted to. I will tell you right now that much of your recovery(if you are an addict) will lie completely outside of whatever food you are putting into your system. This is almost certainly true for all addicts. There are deeper underlying issues at hand that you have to deal with. The overeaters anonymous 12-step groups will give you a first hand glance of others with food addictions and can be useful in determining if in fact you are an addict.

Heres there site - http://www.oa.org/

My journal has all sorts of addiction related info. I thought raw paleo would cure me from my sick mind. It did not. Only a comprehensive program dealing with mental, physical, behavioral, spritual, etc.. issues has given me hope.

Howdy all, its been brought to my attention that sometimes things I say on the world wide web are of poor word choice. I realized what I was doing when I said I wanted to punch PP in the gallbladder. Alot of this stems from extreme resentments I have against some of the things he has said to me on the forums.

Let me say that if I were to ever see PP I would not punch him in the gallbladder right away. In fact, I would give him a huge hug. I like PP. I think PP is a suberp poster and is the poster I most often click on his posts from the most recent posted column. I deeply care about his opinin of me. I want him to think I am smart and worthwhile and and valuable and contribute passionately with preciseness to the forums.

At the same time I hold lots of resentments against him and if I think hard enough I  can think of all the things where I thought he made a severe mistake in judgment. I actually have quite a bit of anger and nitpick his posts(in my head) and can find fault in lots of the things he posts. This is a product of my own perception and insecurities, not necessarily reality. I like thinking of myself as a superior thinking human able to decipher truth better than anyone.

One of my main complaints is my belief in his passive aggressiveness, still apparent in that PP had to complain about me in a pm to Dan instead of simply acknowledging to me directly that he had a problem. There is more like I said but there is no purpose in me posting it here.

Now if PP survived the hug, which is not a sure thing sinec he weighs 128 then he wont have to worry about being punched in the gallbladder.

Also related to my internet rage is that I see loads and loads of bs across the interenet related to dieting where people are so blind to their own preconceived notions of what is correct. This 'disease' seems to be spread deep amongst the paleo crowd. I see covert lying all the time. Very few people are completely honest about what is really happening to them and cannot admit their wrongs. I suffered from this for a while - ZC IS THE WAY!!!!

And Dan - if you want to make the drive to KD's, cool!

I still don't undersstand how someone is supposed to survive in great health without a gallbladder or with one that is filled with gallstones and still eat a high-fat diet. Its likely that we can survive in good health but I still don't see why this isn't a bigger issue in the paleo crowd when 500k Americans get their gallbladder removed every year. I can only imagine how many have issues with gallstones.

HW eats chicken anyway

gosh, how humbling what you wrote.. my entire idea of my self worth in high school and college was based on my sport performance... i wouldn't change my passion/competitiveness, but wish i saw the bigger picture.

If this struck a chord with you, then there are probably quite a few things that you want to be honest about but simply cannot because you are afraid.


I'm still continuing to work relatively hard on overcoming my depressive thoughts and I am still not there but trending upwards. There are a few things I still need to become honest with my family that hopefully will be close to the last major cleaning house that needs to be done. It has to do with childhood sexuality that I have tried to forget for the last 15 years that I created myself. I want my mind to free so bad, to be free from that voice deep inside that comes out and reminds me that I am failure and to not try and to hunch my shoulders and put my head down and not show my emotions and to not go talk to a beautiful woman and to not say anything when someone wrongs me. Just keep it in and say nothing, its so easy. I'm an addict to making things easy for me. Its so easy to hide my feelings. I love it when I can raise my head high, smile and tell people how I really feel all without much thought, just natural human spirit flowing through me. It happens every now and then.

Also Ive planned a trip to visit KD during spring break. I'm excited! Also, I'm going to find PaleoPhil while I'm up there, punch him in the gall bladder, remove it, tear it open and go the nearest lake and spend hours skipping all the stones that are in there. Then I won't have to hear him complain about him not gaining weight or getting chapped lips from consuming too much honey.

True, form should be pretty impeccable before throwing on weight. Theres no sense in injuring yourself lifting weights - which is a pretty worthless endeavor to begin with when the whole point is being able to move more effectively than before.

Lovely donut joke. I actually was offered some today and refused. I am really craving some raw tongue. Raw animal fats are just a delight.

Post of the year KD, congrats...just in time.

Even if God gave me the perfect diet(which I'm sure would include non-paleo tactics) and I did nothing else I am sure I would still feel pretty terrible as my mind has been much more polluted by stress and traumas over the years than diet ever has made me.

My goal has been to recapture that spirit of youth where I spend little time thinking of how I feel, or what others think of me or what I’m doing. 

Thanks for the Christmas present, Lex. This quote above is essentially my goal -to return to the very carefree and honest existence that I believe humans truly are meant to have as they leave the still stone-age womb. We are somewhat unfortunately born into an industrialized crib that from the get-go breaks us apart from our natural pre-programmed set of instructions that still wants us to use stone tools and eat stone-age foods.

One other statement that you keep posting and one that has probably helped me the most is the fact that you have no attachment to this way of eating. It simply works now and will switch if necessary. I was very attached to this method of eating and would fervently defend THE diet online but would always run into trouble with debating and the feeling of worthlessness if I made mistakes. I realize now I most likely purposely put myself in situations where my prophecies about myself would be fulfilled.

Yet another aspect that I enjoy about your posts is that you allow others to have their own stories and biases and don't go off on tangents trying to defend every possible little facet of your diet. For me, my reactions when someone would pick apart my diet online would be to freak out first and then scour medical journals and the such for evidence to back me up. And then this would take up all my time and energy and rarely would yield a satisfactory answer.

To me this is simply my over-alarmed survival system kicking in gear - I am worthless is the set premise in my head which translates in my subconscious brain into ---> "You are in danger, fight for your life". So I did that. Now if I can change the premise in my head from "I am worthless" to "I am valuable" (which is inherent in us when we are born) then I can proceed with my life without scouring through medical journals (which I care very little about) and with doing things wrong and being fine with them.

Its somewhat ironic that I must learn how to unlearn. Diet is just one means to this and I think I a fairly small piece to me. (Small piece in that as you also like to say and many others agree - that the biggest gains come from dropping the worst offenders - refined modern foods) The neural maps in my head need some readjusting and it takes persistence and practice to reverse such things. Once I have done all this then I can go out and kill wild boar with stone tools and feast on their brains!

Hey there buddy,

I almost sent you a private message the last time you posted. But what I did was send a private message to someone else because I was concerned about you. We've had great talks back and forth off this forum for which I am very grateful for your time and advice. I always appreciated your intense search for pathways to achieve extreme health. Your knowledge of very intricate details of liver flushing and herbal remedies is quite superior. I almost liken you to Nikola Tesla, the true mad scientist of the 20th century, because of your ability to create new health alternatives.

All that said, I think it is exactly because of your genius and your ability to come up with these new health initiatives that you are becoming sick. One of my great math professors told me in college that if we didn't like the grade on the test he was handing back then he advised "to do something different". I think you could gain substantially from this advice. Just do something different.

For whatever reasons (which aren't really that important right now) you can experiment with something completely different. I have undergone this sort of experiment with wild success. I no longer post on message forums. Rarely if ever look at anything relating to diet. Rarely use the computer at all. As well as eating everything, having no limits about it and feeling good about what I am doing. Sanity has been restored to me as I was attempting to control my diet as a means of controlling my life which had no control. I have no dietary constraints, I just eat whatever I'm in the mood for. No regrets, except for when I eat 7 donuts. 3 donuts and I'm still good

I do like Matt Stone's advice about extreme dieting. You are young and will live no matter what you eat. You can always come back to RPD. If anyone has tried all the combinations of RPD I think its you. Perhaps its time to do something outside RPD.

I still struggle with loving and accepting myself. And the one constant that seems to work all the time is being as completely and rigorously honest as possible to the point of brutality. I've held back enormous amounts of emotions and thoughts over the course of my life and its all coming out now. I still am not ready to post on this forum or participate in much of anything that can lead to addictive behavior(bad habits in general) since I can already see myself worrying about whatever the fuck I posted being correct from others perspectives. I am still wildly insecure about my own existence and am still learning to accept everything that I am.

There is this strongly ingrained fear about not being worth anything coupled with an overaggressive ego that makes me think the universe has blessed me with everything that it could offer. I literally have these thoughts where I will walk down this path of perfectionism in my mind thinking that no human on earth has been blessed with the talents I posses - Attractiveness, logic and reasoning, athleticism.. I seem to have it all some moments in time. There is no human greater than I. PaleoPhil would be worth one millionth of my worst shit ever. I will think I have all the answers which consist of a raw diet, hang power cleans, liver flushing and mindfulness. Just do these things and you will be able to dunk a basketball with a smile on your face and feel good about yourself.

And then again most days I'll have to force myself to smile at people without thinking how much better I am than them when the truth is that I'm no different than anyone else. This includes rapists, murders, child molestors, all the bad posters on this forum or whatever. I could have easily been any of these people. I feel no different than them. I just got lucky that I wasn't in their situation. I am you. I just happen to have lived in a different set of circumstances. I am nothing. I just got lucky to be who I am. I didn't try for any of it. There is nothing special about me. All I can do is observe myself and protect what was given to me. My character defects are not me either. My existence wants truth and thats it. Thats all that makes me happy and sets me free.

I will separate from that mind that has kept me alive when I was a child and let it all go. But for now I'm sure I will see someone as I drive home tonight who I'll wish would have just run himself off the road into a fiery grave because it looked like he was going to cut me off or maneuver through traffic better and more dangerously than i would - but that would only be for an instant.

Hello lovely, beautiful and hopefully smiling people of rpf,

I saw this thread and wanted to give my thoughts since I recently took extensive measures to procede through liver flushing. I first found out about liver flushing through GS here on the forum and was intrigued by its supposed promises of increased health. For me, the idea of experimentation with different health strategies is something that brings me great delight if the following conditions hold. First: the strategy must be quite safe and second that I am doing it for the purpose of cleansing my body that I love not as a measure to distinguish myself from the rest of society or as a way to control outer external events as in my case of addictive behaviors. Essentially I want to love myself in a way that I would not want to poison my body with anything. It was unfortunate that the second condition was not met when I did these flushes but the first condition was satisfactory for me.

I searched tirelessly for anecdotal evidence that liver flushing was indeed safe and an opportunity for increased health. Most of my searching was done on curezone and through correspondence with other members here. Liver flushing is a serious venture into the unknown as there are no controlled studies that I know of. There is no money in liver flushing so it would be quite pointless to study it in our capitalistic society which is rather a shame and so most all evidence I found came from anecdotal stories online.

I found no evidence of any trauma happening during liver flushing that required immediate medical attention from the perhaps over 100 different accounts that I read through. The most dangerous and scary news came from a respected curezone poster who repeated warned about liver flushing, not only not working, but getting real stones stuck in the common bile duct which would neccesitate emergency gall bladder removal. I didn't find a single case of this though I found several different reports of minor to mild health consequences (headaches, vomitting, blood shot eyes,...) For me this was not enough to explore this possible extremely net positive health action. Think for instance of playing a casino game where 99% of the time you lose 10 dollars and 1% of the time you win 100000. The rewards seemed to greatly outweigh the risks (other people on this forum have different opinions of this but this was my analysis).

The next thing I did was to research how to do such a flush. There are quite a many combinations though the most commonly used flush is done with an oil and citrus mix (usually at least 4oz of oil) taken before bed after fasting for half a day. I soon found out that preparation was even more important than the actual flush and again there are a multitude of combinations of ways to prepare for a flush, which for me produced lots of anxiety since I didn't want to get anything wrong.

I found out about a supposed easier liver flush with egg yolks. With information on curezone I constantly get confused on what to believe. As there are extravagent promises that wonder if these if these people are posting from inside insane assylums. I chuckled mightily after I heard that my nose was going to shrink in size (which I remember well since I have a nice fat greek nose). But, none of these seemingly clear absurd promises of health turned me away. I just cared if it was safe. If it didn't work, who cares?

The egg-yolk liver flush did not require epsom salts and was simple enough and so I went through with it with very little results. Some intresting turds but that was it. It was at this time I started to consume lots of yolks since supposedly these are good for cleansing the liver (and the fats perhaps easier to digest since they are in liquid form?). Since this flush did nothing I went a step further and did the oil plus citrus flush commonly referred to the Hulda Clark flush. I rather naively did not prepare that well (I was excited by the "promises" and the adventure of it all) and underwent this Hulda Clark flush without taking anywhere near the required epsom salts. I did this twice spread apart by some few weeks I believe with the neither of these flushes producing anything except for a very bad headache the next night that did not allow me to sleep(I cannot for sure say this was a consuquence of the flush).

After this flush I waited perhaps 4 months to do the next flush and this one I prepared like I was in a title fight for. I ate quite a bit off raw yolks nearly everyday for the month before. Most of the time I would mix in lime or grapefruit and occasionally a bit of honey for taste. Some days I ate nothing but yolks. I prepared also by taking droplets of digestive grape bitters which supposedly help dissolve stones for a month or so prior to the flush as well as chinese bitters and gold coin grass. I made castor oil packs and put them on my liver/gall bladder, which was a nice way to relax and meditate. I took some apple cider vinegar as well occasionally which is supposed to crush stones. I gave myself coffee enemas nearly daily as well. None of these things seemed to make any difference in the way I felt. I wasn't really expecting anything from the flush because of the previous two times but I gave it another try. This time with the full dosage of epsom salts, which taste extremely bad by the way.

I probably visited the bathroom a dozen times the next day with nothing coming out the first few times except liquid waste and then by the early afternoon the day following the flush small green "stones" that floated came out in bundles. I contiued to get "stones" and other junk out even through the next day. I felt good to have "success" that my body created something because of the work I put into it. I felt absolutely no different after the flush. I examined a few of the larger (10-15mm) "stones" and found some seeds from some fruit I consumed earlier in the day so these were clearly products of the flush itself and not true gallstones.

I wasn't dissapointed to find that out because I had read from respected members that this is indeed what to expect - bile compacted with intestinal waste, but it seems that this is not necessarily just waste. Some debris and sludge(yet to be formed stones) from the gall bladder is indeed being slowly pushed out by these flushes. True gall stones would probably have a very hard time making it through the common bile duct since its just 5mm in diameter if I recall correctly, though apparently it expands with the help of the epsom salts.

The only thing I could discern that was differnt about myself was that I could feel my gall bladder the next couple weeks(perhaps it was simply weakened by the extreme amount of bile pushed through it). I have yet to do a liver flush since, but only because I need to meet my second condition before I try it again. There are so many variations and so much to preuse out there and if you do flush as always do your homework.

My "theory" on producing a high-functioning body is to remove as much "clutter" as possible (liver/gallbladder stones, kidney stones, excess fat, mucoid plaque, heavy metals, etc) and let the body handle things from there. I also believe this mentality works for mental and emotional health. Clear the clutter from your mind. Drop the ego. Let go of the shame and guilt and have as close to nothing on your mind except awareness of the present and let the power of the freed up energy in your mind do the rest.

I try to follow my soul and true spirit within me now listening to as much as I can. Lots of love and best regards to all.