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Messages - RogueFarmer

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General Discussion / Re: Paleo/primal village
« on: May 31, 2016, 01:55:03 pm »
Just to be clear, the farmers I work with are not commodity growers. I work mostly with grass farmers, and to a lesser extent organic fruit and veg growers. These are the people who are (supposedly) doing everything right. Management intensive grazing, stocking to extend the grazing season, using breeds with excellent feed-conversion ratios, using perennial polycultures and companion planting, compost and compost tea rather than synthetic fertilizers, etc. They still can't make money.

The few exceptions are the ones who manage to carve out a niche market for themselves, like using hoop houses so they can be the first to bring a particular product to market each season or focusing on novelty varieties of foods. Even then their incomes are marginal. They might net $15,000-$20,000 per year per proprietor after investing 80+ hours per week over their growing season. If they have health insurance at all it's a very high deductible plan, which means a serious illness or injury will be financially ruinous. They also have no retirement savings, and some of them can't even afford to eat the food they grow because they so desperately need the cash to pay bills. I've met more than a few farmers who grow high-end organic vegetables or raise high-end meats who are on food stamps.

Commercial farming is not an entrepreneurial venture I'd go into right now. Maybe someday when people are ready to accept food prices that are 2x or 3x what they are today, but not right now.

I am a rogue farmer. I am not an organic farmer. I am a nature farmer.

Eric what would you consult me to do? What is there out there for me? What is it everybody here is doing besides eating good food that is so worth while? What is there that I can do that is worth doing? Are we to be mere pawns who toil for pay so we can hog at the trough? I don't understand where the conceptual misunderstanding ends or beguines, but to me the majority of us humans are facing slavery, these corporations and countries are becoming slave nations and the suffering to me seems insurmountable

Tell me Eveheart, who supports you? Do you have family who loves and supports you and cares about the things that you care about? Don't judge people. Because you don't know what shit they have been through.

Sorry, back to Eric, so, how do these farmers live? 15-20k? Sounds horrible right? That's terrible they make nothing!

Except they have all their food at their house. Except they have their whole livelihood where they live. Except their lives are rich and meaningful. Except they get to be there with their children and work with them and love them and they don't have to go out into the world of lies and slavery and ruin and they don't have top send their children to the prisons they call schools like packs of dogs sent to the pound in one big cage.

Except when you have a farm, you don't need lots of money, because almost everything you need to have a really good life, is where you live.

They all make choices. How like Americans are these farmers. We have been sold lies. All the farmers I know buy lies, everyone I know buys lies.

I have never seen a farm at peace, I have never seen a farm in balance, hell I have never seen an environment that was natural or in any kind of harmony or balance but ruin.

I have read and heard and watched videos about good farms and I have done good farming myself so I know it exists.

You know one of the roads I could have, perhaps should have walked down is working for some of those people, seeking out the best farms. I mean that was part of the plan, you know but, didn't have a vacation in 7 years.

Eric, you know though perhaps you are onto something. You know what on average the least profitable thing ranchers do on their ranches is? The least profitable thing people do on ranches is farm.

General Discussion / Re: Paleo/primal village
« on: May 31, 2016, 01:27:31 pm »
1 major point: Saladin has a healthy sense of optimism. Successful business people in any field of endeavor are optimistic, even amidst great setbacks.

The original poster is drowning in pessimism. He would have to eliminate most of his pessimism - keeping a healthy sense of skepticism - and learn how to see the bright side. Then, he can start a successful farming enterprise. When he learns to create optimism, he will see his paleoprimal village spring to life around him.

Screw you eveheart, that's you you're talking about, not me, your are simply reflecting yourself into how you seem me, in reality I am the least pessimistic, most optimistic person who posts on this entire forum.

I am drowning in pain. I am suffering from things I dare not write here. It is not only humiliating, I am experiencing more pain than I have even been able to write hardly anything or really express myself to more than just a few people, one of which who wanted to help me took his own life, really ever since the winter of 2013.

I have PTSD pretty bad, I am finally starting to feel like myself again.

General Discussion / Re: Paleo/primal village
« on: May 30, 2016, 02:51:56 pm »
We have a little hippie town near here full of burnouts from the D.C. rat race. They move to Floyd thinking they can start a little organic farm and live off the land, maybe make a little money....and as you already know, they fail hard, every one of them. Oh well. Their failures help keep the local organic farming supply guy in business. LOL

Where is that? Virginia? Last time I checked a lot of that good country is the highest priced of any state, including Hawaii.

You guys don't know. Organic farming is highly profitable, so much so that you probably wouldn't even need the money you make to pay for anything other than bills and taxes. Food is life. The majority of you guys in my observation fail to grasp the allure of the unknown potential there is for this planet.

Like you guys are talking about good food like per say food x 2 or food x 5. But I don't hear anyone talking Purple Cows.

I have been trying to tell you guys I am pretty sure soon after I joined this forum. Purple cows are the only hope for the planet.

General Discussion / Re: Paleo/primal village
« on: May 30, 2016, 02:29:56 pm »
I don't think it's even possible to make a reasonable living at farming anymore, unless you inherit a huge acreage and are willing to grow a subsidized commodity crop. I work in the agricultural sector as a consultant, and 90%+ of the farmers I know who make a living do so largely by having second or even third jobs off-farm to augment their meager farm incomes. Having seen so many negative balance sheets, I marvel at why anyone would want to go into farming.

Because not everyone is a gullible shmuch like the majority of farmers who utilize unsound practices.

For gods sakes to even qualify for subsidies you are required to manifest your land into a negative zone of death and destruction, of pestilence and decay. It is not an option for the subsidized farmer, it is the very rule of law. 

Of fucking course they have to work off the farm, they are growing crops that cost more money to grow than they yield. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They are competing in sheer numbers of acres, ever 1 acre gets you another check from the government. Every acre of corn, rice, wheat and soy gives you another check. You rent your neighbors field, obliterate the ecology with our most sophisticated technology like we did in Vietnam and you get more checks. So you can fix your tractor. Or buy another field.

I met a guy last summer. He was a corn husker, was his whole life, until 2 years ago, they bought a robot tractor. They farm 4000+ acres.

Everyone is going to look back and they are going to wish they did more. Some day there really will be regrets.

General Discussion / Re: Paleo/primal village
« on: May 20, 2016, 02:29:03 am »
Livestock was my passion and hobby, I have worked at more farms then I can remember, I have taken care of or at least been partially involved with virtually all manner of livestock as well as horticultural endeavors and I have spent the better part of my life just trying to connect with what is left of nature. Whenever you step onto property that is owned by someone else, in my experience in America, you are entering into a post slavery serfdom existence. America is a debt society and when you have low income because you are per say a seasonal farm worker, every day you are at risk of forfeiting your assets.

Now there is land in America that can be bought or rented reasonably, but it is a delicate balance of the cost of land which is insane in some places, which are also usually where your best markets are, as well as coping with the rigors of climate, cost of commodities and poorer markets and larger cost of doing business.

To be successful as a modern day farmer, you have to compete with robotic industrial agriculture, by producing high quality and high value products for a reasonable price, with a great deal of manual labor that cannot be replicated by machine, to produce a niche product that is in demand and in limited supply. You have to be an economist and balance your expenditures on land and feed and utilities and fuel and determine your most profitable ventures and you have to be a retailer to obtain premium prices for your wares.

I'm sorry I don't really quite no if I believe in your dream job. I had plenty of amazing jobs for amazing people (that I didn't make enough money to survive very well at least by most people's standards) and I don't think because it didn't work out that per say there was something wrong with where I worked or something wrong with me. Instead I see that I am an independent individual who requires for his own mental health to assert his destiny and feels limited and unable to control his own life when he is giving away everything he has to someone else and doesn't seem himself growing stronger and increasing his wealth but rather the opposite, the weakening and diminishing of health and wealth from working for low wages. Sure I save money but I am caught in a mental struggle where I could spend all my money and eat all that delicious nutritious delicacies or I could again try to accumulate my wealth so that I can enlist an investment in a tool or asset to grow my food.

Hobby? Distraction! So I can waste the last of my energy on entertainment when I spent the rest of it toiling all day in someone else's affair.

Unappreciated, disrespected by society, I am not compensated fairly for the calories I expend and consume, my educators, practitioners, benefactors and employers should be in debt for these lungs they ammoniated, these intestines they perforated, these bones they broke, these teeth they rotted. Or am I to blame?

As you say there are many roads, many options. I think the problem is everyone I work with has had entirely different desires, entirely different dreams. They could not see past their dream, they could not see or hear what I offered them, they only saw what they could take from me.

General Discussion / Paleo/primal village
« on: May 12, 2016, 01:16:22 pm »
I'm not a doctor so I am probably pretty miserable at diagnosing myself, but I can say that I have suffered from depression for around half of time here on earth. I grew up an only child but my early childhood was exceedingly rich as I grew up in the countryside along a large and extremely healthy river. There were few rules in those days, I was to avoid the highway on the hill above our holler, the old abandoned fire house, the well houses (the only rule I broke) and the deep part of the river. I chewed on grass, clover flowers and leaves and wild strawberries. In the winter and throughout most of the year we lived off of venison, wild turkey or fish from the river and lakes. Of course all good things come to an end and since my young parents wanted to make more money and they were staying at my grandma's house they decided to move to the city. Although a very intelligent student who always tested strongly in all categories, I failed many classes and was usually dismissed as a poor student. I easily passed my GED and attended a year of college but after returning to my original home once more after my first year, I worked at an organic vegetable farm which I had originally visited as a young student on a field trip.

This was a life changing event which quickly restored to me a great deal of the vitality I had lost from years of city life. Living close to healthy soil, cuts and scrapes healed quickly with no treatment but dirt and saliva. Fermented vegetables and a renewed steady diet of wild berries helped restore my biological flora and for the first time in 13 years illness and ill thrift were no longer threats on the horizon like they had been before. I tasted my vigor renewed and in the passing years new exploration and my own self education escalated my health to greater and greater heights. However I returned to the city to find my health in crisis and new measures must be learned and taken to create a viable bubble from the toxic funeral that await those who do not take the helm of their destiny. Which of course eventually led me to this forum and many questionable life decisions.

In my own pursuit of health and in execution of my plan, do to a string of close but no cigar experiences in the farming life, I raised healthy happy animals, many generations, 7 in goats, and 3 in cows. Unfortunately in my prolonged endeavor where I maintained my operation almost entirely under my own effort in all but the worst of all years I experienced which lead to the termination of my livelihood 1 year later as taking care of myself in my reduced, PTSD state became my top priority and to my great sadness I said goodbye to the ones who helped me more than any human ever did and were the only thing that ended my 17 years of depression. I couldn't afford to take care of them anymore because I couldn't afford to take care of myself because I didn't have any help, only people who took advantage of me.

It's been over a year since I left where I am from again as I have so many times. I am starting to feel strong again but is still difficult to deal with the pain. I cannot deal with my depression and my job and buying the foods I need to make me healthy. I need a real life. I am getting ready again to start building my life bubble again. I was remotely prepared for the end of western civilization in 2012 with little resources. I am a natural farmer. I have attempted to shape my method of animal husbandry after the greatest practitioners of organic agriculture recorded in books available on earth. I can succeed with a few natural resources, time, dedication and discipline, but to truly succeed in the presence of modernity, I need the help and support my my community, it is crucial, it is fundamental, it is the beginning and the end.

It says in the bible, "cast not pearls before swine, lest they turn and tear you to pieces."

Flint actually works better than most kitchen knives do so I would tend to assume using stone tools happened fairy early on.

General Discussion / Re: Raw placenta story
« on: April 09, 2016, 11:37:50 pm »
“That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.”
Aldous Huxley.

Placenta eating is something primordial which goes back before history, even herbivore mamas will instinctively lick the after birth off their new born.

That's right, it's considered a bad sign if they don't eat it because it might mean they are having a problem although sometimes it gets dirty and they wont eat it and sometimes a dog gets it lol.

General Discussion / Re: Raw placenta story
« on: April 08, 2016, 12:35:43 pm »
Yeah I'm pretty sure I learned about this in school studying Greek Mythology.

Well shit GS, $40 an hour is damn good money.

Off Topic / Re: Give us a laugh !
« on: February 24, 2016, 12:03:47 pm »
It's subtle humor but i got a pretty good giggle out of this.;u=92926

Science / Re: Study shows that social brain theory is nonsense
« on: January 26, 2016, 03:49:28 pm »
I'm not sure I really agree that this "scientific" experiment can safely conclude definitively the intelligence level of any of those animals. What about monkeys and dolphins? Or wolves. To come to this conclusion one would be more apt to do scientific experiments comparing individuals within species not by comparing the species to each other. Even the information prevented in this article is convoluted. And duh wtf didn't we figure out half of this shit already anyways?

Hot Topics / Re: FFS
« on: January 19, 2016, 12:13:06 pm »
Even a poorly managed cow farm ought to produce a lot less carbon than intensive crop production would. Even poorly managed cow farms are usually building soil to some degree and not causing wanton erosion like crop farms do. All the fertilizer from the crop farms washes down stream and kills untold vast amounts of ocean life. Also another article stated that the method they used to produce the statistic 2 pounds was false and it would actually be more like 14 pounds. Even still, they are saying that the cows are more harmful to the environment than plains because cows produce more carbon. They aren't dumping that carbon up in the stratosphere and carbon isn't even bad for the environment so no, the article is not reasonable.

Hot Topics / Re: FFS
« on: January 19, 2016, 04:59:33 am »
Aside from the obvious, the author forgot to factor in the carbon footprint of building and maintaining an aircraft, and an airline etc.

Mining the fuel, that the it's actually more like 14 pounds of beef and is completely negligent of the fact that pastures where grass fed cattle live absorb and sequester carbon.

Hot Topics / FFS
« on: January 19, 2016, 04:49:41 am »

General Discussion / Re: World's vertebrate biomass
« on: January 10, 2016, 06:58:30 pm »
The technology that will save the world is methods of animal husbandry that mimic the ecosystem processes wild animals performed before they were wiped out. It will take over 100 years if not longer for wildlife populations to come back anywhere near where they used to be, however if we start using livestock to restore the grassland ecosystem, wildlife will be more able to recolonize the earth than otherwise. The earths carrying capacity could probably increased by six timed if not more using this technology in conjunction with remineralization of world soils.

Primal Diet / Re: Are you sure that dairy isn't paleo?
« on: December 24, 2015, 08:13:40 am »
Milk consumption has had the exact opposite effect on my teeth that Tyler Durden describes. I have tooth pain unless I drink milk regularly. My teeth were loose and in chronic pain until I started consuming it in a much higher volume than I had previously, at least 5 gallons a week.

I recommend dairy as a food for no other reason than it is economical and a good way to restore health in people with little money or means or squeamish about raw meat and especially organs.

Where will you be living wild?
How many companions will you be having?
How long do you plan on living wild?
What would you do for medical needs?
Communications for rescue?
What about self defense? Against wild animals?
If you are a guy, what about sex? (I'd find being sex less harsh).
If you have women, are you equipped with pregnancy and birthing knowledge?


I suggest you take wild living training courses first, especially from people who have lived wild in the area you plan to live in.


If you've read some of my posts here, I don't think our current human form is built to live wild and alone.  At minimum we would have to be in a tribe.  We are a pretty much domesticated stock.  How much technology are you willing to live without?

I really don't think I would have a whole lot of problem living "wild" with tools by myself other than the fact that I have very little desire to do so. However in a lot of ways it would be easier and more comfortable than the domesticated life I have now. Hoping to improve upon that.

Info / News Items / Announcements / Re: Vice article featuring Me
« on: December 19, 2015, 04:23:55 am »
I meant to also mention that most of the "improved" varieties of pasture plants commonly utilized in the United States, as well as a great deal of the volunteer grasses that spring up in fields and most of species utilized in lawn landscaping are almost exclusively European Native and their growing season for those cool season grasses is much longer. So theoretically their best meat should have higher concentrations of fat soluble vitamins and omega fatty acids. Under the same management conditions they should be fattier and more tender, at least in Holland.

I heard Normande beef is sold in France by the breed's name and it is almost exclusively a pasture breed and is very highly reputed. No Normande has ever succumb to mad cow disease.

Info / News Items / Announcements / Re: Vice article featuring Me
« on: December 18, 2015, 12:53:20 pm »
I had a feeling that a lot of meat in Europe wasn't as good as here, however I have had really good fatty acorn finished ham in Spain that tasted better than salmon and I am sure there are many good places to get good meat there. The ability of parts of the Netherlands and a few other places in Europe to grow cool season grasses (most of the food that grass fed livestock in America eat) far surpasses what is possible in the majority if not entirety of America. The pastures of the Netherlands rank among the best in the world along with New Zealand and parts of Australia. Also I'm not a soils expert but I would entertain the notion that the Appalachian Mountain Range has quality of soil more similar to much of Europe than to the rest of the United States.

You didn't eat any good horse meat in France? They cut off most of the fat here too, it's super hard to find good fat in America.

Lol I just got to the bottom and read you want to go to Australia or NZ haha

Hot Topics / Re: Healthy soils can absorb cattle methane
« on: December 12, 2015, 03:20:00 pm »
I think we really should be worrying though that right now there are less animals on earth than ever in history.

I think the value of animals will continue to increase and there will probably continue to be drought problems that cause large selloffs that lower meat prices in the short term but because of the dwindling herd signal increased prices in the future.

Especially with beef there are millions of miles of fencing that are deteriorated from 1 or 2 generations ago and in these recession years more and more land goes fallow and unused and the herd grows smaller. Every year cattle bring record prices at auction.

Hot Topics / Re: Healthy soils can absorb cattle methane
« on: December 12, 2015, 04:34:55 am »
It's not a cow fart that is dangerous but when you take a billion cow shits and put them in a vat that is not natural and the organisms that live off of the methane would likely be killed by the anaerobic toxic sludge that results from your average intensive livestock operation in the industrialized nations. Also in much of pasture land there is a deficit of fresh carbon to the amount of nutrients in the soil because pastures are overgrazed and under rested. If pastures are allowed to recover then grasses have increased carbon production and thus more consistent cow poops and more earthworm food. It should be farmers goal to waste 30% of their pasture to mulch the next crop in order to retain and increase fertility and forage quality.

If you look at the Potenger's cat's study, the feces from the unhealthy cats produced unhealthy plants. I imagine it is largely the same with cattle.


We are steadily replacing wild game, prairie and forest with industrialized, chemicalized and even roboticized grain agriculture destroying ourselves and the planet. A paleo diet agriculture is essential for humanities future on the planet.

Supposedly although rare sheep and goats can actually interbreed even though sheep have more chromosomes than goats.

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